M855/ss109

[Firehaus]

Not sure if this link has been posted yet as well.

http://savem855.com/

[Sackett]

Now I have way to much m855. :)

What is this "too much" you speak of? I do not understand.

[Aloha_Shooter]

What is this "too much" you speak of? I do not understand.

Indeed. I don't have too many guns, I just don't have enough safes. [Coffee]

[Sawin]

Not sure if this link has been posted yet as well.

http://savem855.com/

This is the easiest method I've used to contact them so far... well done. Everyone who cares no longer has any excuse for not contacting their reps and the ATF.

[Great-Kazoo]

Have to give a big thumbs up to Ammunitiondeopt. They're the only company I ordered from that followed through on their part of the deal, no price increase, no backorder and no cancelation. I'll be ordering from them again.

Now I have way to much m855. :)


I don't have any, or would i go out of my way to buy some.

[th3w01f]

What is this "too much" you speak of? I do not understand.

Let's just say the shipping weight on my order from FedEx is ~400 lbs. ;-)

[hurley842002]

so you got between 11k and 13k. depending on if its loose or in cans.
thats still really not that much, unless you had a good start before this order.
although Im sure more than most here.
More than me, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't come on here and brag about it....

[th3w01f]

More than me, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't come on here and brag about it....

Just a prelude that there may be some reasonable to good deals in the trading section coming up.

[Great-Kazoo]

Just a prelude that there may be some reasonable to good deals in the trading section coming up.

You and 10 other people who invested. Outside of it being the steel tip bullet, i don't see any benefit of it over a goodvarmint load. YMMV.

Oh yeah GLWS

[beast556]

You and 10 other people who invested. Outside of it being the steel tip bullet, i don't see any benefit of it over a goodvarmint load. YMMV. Oh yeah GLWSA good factory varmit load is approx 1$ a round. M855 approx 40 cents a round. for going out and shooting at the range im going with the m855 round.

[Great-Kazoo]

A good factory varmit load is approx 1$ a round. M855 approx 40 cents a round. for going out and shooting at the range im going with the m855 round.

IF one buys vs reload. Hence my not needing any 62gr. Realistically outside the "steel properties", for plinking and varmint it's useless, unless it's all one has.
I'm doing varmint loads for $0.20 if that. Besides who buys factory varmint, that's so last millennium ;) You get that 450 up and running, you'll soon reap the benefits too.

[th3w01f]

A good factory varmit load is approx 1$ a round. M855 approx 40 cents a round. for going out and shooting at the range im going with the m855 round.

Beat me to it, I was typing in one window and saw your post in the other. [Beer] I'd happily trade straight across for any good varmint rounds (not a trade off just making a point).

[Great-Kazoo]

A good factory varmit load is approx 1$ a round. M855 approx 40 cents a round. for going out and shooting at the range im going with the m855 round.


Beat me to it, I was typing in one window and saw your post in the other. I'd happily trade straight across for any good varmint rounds [B](not a trade off just making a point).

There's 50 in this box. That is $13.25 for a box of 50 BHA 52gr HP's let me see mmmm oh yeah $0.26 a round.

56965

Apologies for the crappy pic.

[th3w01f]

Now you've got me looking for my $10.95 box of Hydrashok's, I know I've seen that box recently. :)

Looks like your box of Black Hills is about $30 now.

[Great-Kazoo]

Now you've got me looking for my $10.95 box of Hydrashok's, I know I've seen that box recently. :)

Looks like your box of Black Hills is about $30 now.

Talking to beast556 this evening about prices. I "think" the last time the spouse or i purchased any center fire ammo was at least 10+ years ago Still shooting up the SA rubberized bulk packs. . Now 22 that's on the always buy list.

[brutal]

Let's just say the shipping weight on my order from FedEx is ~400 lbs. ;-)

?

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/american-eagle-xm855-5-56-x-45mm-62-grain-centerfire-rifle-ammunition-12-500-round-barrel/pid-616354?N=131541340+4294643317

[th3w01f]

?

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/american-eagle-xm855-5-56-x-45mm-62-grain-centerfire-rifle-ammunition-12-500-round-barrel/pid-616354?N=131541340+4294643317

That is one big barrel of ammo but mine are in cans.

I like this review; I wish I was able to shoot 4K rounds per month. "
About 3 months supply (moderate use). Overall quality is good for the price."

[Irving]

I followed this link and the other one. Thanks for posting these.

[speedysst]

Looks like CTD is up to their old tricks again. Now not even M193 is available even priced at over $11/box. This is why I will never buy from them.

[hollohas]

That's just stupid. There is 55 FMJ for sale all over the place for $0.33 or less.

[MED]

It looks like Palmetto has 855 "daily deal" for $579. Yes, the proposed rules sucks, its stupid, and it makes no logical sense, but there isn't any need to start another[panic]

[MED]

Looks like CTD is up to their old tricks again. Now not even M193 is available even priced at over $11/box. This is why I will never buy from them.

Palmetto has it for $359 a case http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/819/category/3973/

I have no idea how CTD is still in business; who actually buys anything from them?

[HoneyBadger]

M193 was in stock earlier today for a few hours for $318/k
http://www.freedommunitions.com/5-56-M-193-55-gr-FMJ-New-p/ipp556m193n-c1000.htm

Or, if you're serious about buying in bulk...
http://www.freedommunitions.com/Igman-5-56-M-855-62-gr-AP-100K-Pallet-p/ipp556m855n-100.htm

[SideShow Bob]

Damn, M855 is getting expensive........

http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-adi-australian-defense-ind.-900rd-can,-62gr-fmj-f1-m855-ss109-223-ammo-in-steel-can.-p-58232.html

[Great-Kazoo]

That's just stupid. There is 55 FMJ for sale all over the place for $0.33 or less.

FINALLY someone else gets it. BUT IT'S 62 GR PENETRATOR. BFD.

[mtnrider]

That's just stupid. There is 55 FMJ for sale all over the place for $0.33 or less.

Not so much. I think a few of those misguided articles today have sent everyone into full panic. I just looked at a few places that have had 55 fmj in stock and they are sold out now.

[HoneyBadger]

FINALLY someone else gets it. BUT IT'S 62 GR PENETRATOR. BFD.
But Great Kazoo, WHAT IF I NEED TO SHOOT THROUGH A CAR DOOR?!?






[Coffee]

[SideShow Bob]

But Great Kazoo, WHAT IF I NEED TO SHOOT THROUGH A CAR DOOR?!?






[Coffee]
That's what you get a 458 SOCOM for...............

https://www.ar-15.co/webkit-fake-url://9D4D7527-59BF-4D27-A5A5-00D62FAA7479/imagejpeg

[wctriumph]

Or an M1.

[Irving]

But Great Kazoo, WHAT IF I NEED TO SHOOT THROUGH A CAR DOOR?!?



Open it first, dummy.

[hollohas]

Not so much. I think a few of those misguided articles today have sent everyone into full panic. I just looked at a few places that have had 55 fmj in stock and they are sold out now.
People are so ignorant. What happened today that made the late to the party crowd panic and buy up all the FMJ stuff?

[mtnrider]

People are so ignorant. What happened today that made the late to the party crowd panic and buy up all the FMJ stuff?

Several articles were posted making it sound like Obama is banning ALL 5.56 and going after the AR15 next.

[Irving]

I guess even Rush Limbaugh was talking about Obama banning 5.56 rounds.

[HoneyBadger]

People are so ignorant. What happened today that made the late to the party crowd panic and buy up all the FMJ stuff?
It showed up on Fox News and Drudge Report this morning...

Seriously though, a .22 short is potentially lethal through a car door.

[HoneyBadger]

I guess even Rush Limbaugh was talking about Obama banning 5.56 rounds.
People still listen to Rushbo? [Dunno]

[th3w01f]

With all this talk of M855, does anyone have any M955 laying around? That would be interesting to do some testing with. :)

[Great-Kazoo]

People are so ignorant. What happened today that made the late to the party crowd panic and buy up all the FMJ stuff?


Several articles were posted making it sound like Obama is banning ALL 5.56 and going after the AR15 next.


6 text and 4 vm's this morning ALL wanting to know if i would sell them some 223 now that it's banned. MMMMMMMMMMMMM
Maybe i should off load some of my old inventory, pay off the house, go on vacation.

[Sawin]

6 text and 4 vm's this morning ALL wanting to know if i would sell them some 223 now that it's banned. MMMMMMMMMMMMM
Maybe i should off load some of my old inventory, pay off the house, go on vacation.

I would not blame you if you do it.

[Great-Kazoo]

I would not blame you if you do it.

I'd list it in the TP. But be undercutting everyone else.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Damn, M855 is getting expensive........

http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-adi-australian-defense-ind.-900rd-can,-62gr-fmj-f1-m855-ss109-223-ammo-in-steel-can.-p-58232.html


Hey that stuff says explosive on the can, it's super dangerous............

[Dave_L]

I bought a can of 193 when this whole panic started. 855 was all sold out or high priced and the 193 was still normal priced. I figured it'd go next once the 855 went. Ugh.

[DOC]

I have a knife for cutting through car doors.

[Cthulhu]

With all this talk of M855, does anyone have any M955 laying around? That would be interesting to do some testing with. :)

I have the M855 if you can provide the car door.

[Schrambo]

Car door?? 69gr, 168gr, 500gr... They all work... OK, should work...

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/CoSchrambo/IMG_1880_zps4c8a5e28.jpg (http://s1197.photobucket.com/user/CoSchrambo/media/IMG_1880_zps4c8a5e28.jpg.html)

[wctriumph]

Well, I have been keeping an eye on the green tip and the 193 and pretty much all of the retailers are out of stock. Brownells, MidwayUSA, Cheaper than dirt, etc. are out of stock, no back orders, will notify you IF they get more and their 420 round can prices have risen about $30.00 over what they were a week ago. Armslist prices are even higher but you can buy it if you have the cash. It may be a while before we see any in the stores again and at reasonable prices.

[osok-308]

It looks like I picked a great time to get in to reloading.

[hollohas]

Even after WEEKS to get the story straight, the "news" folks on 850 KOA this morning reported about the proposal to "ban ALL ammunition for AR15 rifles."

They even played a clip of some Fudd they interviewed who said "why even buy an AR15 anymore if there won't be any ammo???"

[Dave_L]

They even played a clip some Fudd they interviewed who said "why even buy an AR15 anymore if there won't be any ammo???"

So maybe AR prices will be dropping EVEN more? LOL.

[hollohas]

So maybe AR prices will be dropping EVEN more? LOL.
The Fudd on the radio actually said that since all the ammo was going to be banned and nobody would buy AR's anymore as a result that the price of AR's would in fact increase.

Strong theory, huh? Hahahaha....

[trlcavscout]

Holy crap! Looking at the price of used guns (not just AR's) this week they must be banning everything?

[hurley842002]

Holy crap! Looking at the price of used guns (not just AR's) this week they must be banning everything?
Question is, are people buying said guns.

[ray1970]

The Fudd on the radio actually said that since all the ammo was going to be banned and nobody would buy AR's anymore as a result that the price of AR's would in fact increase.

Strong theory, huh? Hahahaha....
I heard that. I couldn't grasp how lower demand would make for higher prices. Of course I don't have a college education.

[VolksDragon]

This just reinforces the much-repeated "buy it cheap and stack it deep" that applies to pretty much everything on the firearms market. Buy what you want when the market is soft and supply curves are up so that you'll have what you NEED when demand goes nuts, surge pricing takes off and supply is zero.

These are all fairly simple economic trends, but they get super out of hand when groundswell panic and neckbeard logic starts fucking with the system. WE all KNOW it's just M855 on the chopping block, but the immense game of disinformation telephone that takes place convinces some that EVERYTHING is going to be banned. People remember what happened in '12, and instead of being caught without, they just start buying shit. Those of us with the time and the means tend to monitor the ammo market as a futures investment, and once the prices uptick, we buy a few thousand to hedge against MORE uptick, essentially contributing to the problem. Those of us with big stockpiles dump a bit of ammo on the open market, further influencing the surge / inflated value by pricing our existing commodities against a perceived supply cliff. It's a pretty ruthless cycle from both ends.

Whether it's mags, lowers, complete rifles, ammo, LPK's, etc, this kind of market variance is ALWAYS going to occur when you mix the current political climate with economic uncertainty and bandwagon activism. Whether it's the first Clinton ban, the sunset, the '08 panic, the '12 panic...the market will continue to rise and fall.

So...again...buy LOTS of it when it's cheap, so you won't HAVE to buy it when it's not.

[Irving]

I just entered into a 10 year, several million gallon contract with Conoco to ensure I can keep paying this price for gas for the next 10 years.

[VolksDragon]

I just entered into a 10 year, several million gallon contract with Conoco to ensure I can keep paying this price for gas for the next 10 years.

Not a bad wager if you can figure out how to store and preserve it. :)

[Mtn.man]

Just bid 27.50 on 2806lbs of 5.56 brass

[hollohas]

Just bid 27.50 on 2806lbs of 5.56 brass
Local?

[Gman]

Just bid 27.50 on 2806lbs of 5.56 brass
Let us know if you win the auction at that price.

[MBsnow]

So much mis-information.

[ruthabagah]

So much mis-information.

Yep, just had a former co worker asking me if I would buy back an AR I sold him 2 years ago (that he never shot), because "soon all AR ammo will be banned!" told him, yes, for 200$.... He is thinking about it.

[Sawin]

Yep, just had a former co worker asking me if I would buy back an AR I sold him 2 years ago (that he never shot), because "soon all AR ammo will be banned!" told him, yes, for 200$.... He is thinking about it.

He must not be a very good friend or coworker to be willfully screwing him over that bad.

[Irving]

He must not be a very good friend or coworker to be willfully screwing him over that bad.

Sounds like he deserves it if he wants Ruta to buy something he thinks is worthless.

[wctriumph]

MidwayUSA has 1000 round of General Dynamics SS109 surplus for $549.99. That is about average Armslist pricing right now.

[Great-Kazoo]

Sounds like he deserves it if he wants Ruta to buy something he thinks is worthless.

He deserves it IF he truly believes ALL 223 / 5.56 AMMO IS BANNED. I have offers out to AMMO PANIC owners too, they pay the BGC fees.

[ruthabagah]

He must not be a very good friend or coworker to be willfully screwing him over that bad.
He is both, and he knew I was joking for the last part... It's only worth 150$ cause soon they won't be any ammo for it! [Sarcasm2]

[Teufelhund]

He deserves it IF he truly believes ALL 223 / 5.56 AMMO IS BANNED. I have offers out to AMMO PANIC owners too, they pay the BGC fees.

The panic is real. Stopped in Wally-world yesterday for some .308, when a guy walks up and is super excited to find they had an ammo can of 5.56 (which turned out to actually be some other caliber) because "ATF is banning all .223 and 5.56." Ok, man. Have fun.

[cstone]

Little white, wet, cold, pieces of the sky hit me in the face today.

The sky is falling!

Can I interest anyone in a slightly used SkyShield? 57155

[Samurai]

The panic is real. Stopped in Wally-world yesterday for some .308, when a guy walks up and is super excited to find they had an ammo can of 5.56 (which turned out to actually be some other caliber) because "ATF is banning all .223 and 5.56." Ok, man. Have fun.

What pissed me off were the emails i got from the NRA. They are basically saying that unless you read the fine print which most people dont. They see the "5.56 ban" headline and think its everything. The NRA did a very poor job with this, they need to be specific, not add to the panic...

[hollohas]

What pissed me off were the emails i got from the NRA. They are basically saying that unless you read the fine print which most people dont. They see the "5.56 ban" headline and think its everything. The NRA did a very poor job with this, they need to be specific, not add to the panic...
I think they are actually attempting to get people to panic in hopes more will write Washington and donate to the NRA.

Not bad mouthing the NRA, I am a member and mostly like the organization. But their vague bulletins on the ban seem to me like a strategy rather than an oversight.

[Samurai]

I think they are actually attempting to get people to panic in hopes more will write Washington and donate to the NRA.

Not bad mouthing the NRA, I am a member and mostly like the organization. But their vague bulletins on the ban seem to me like a strategy rather than an oversight.

I agree with you 100%, I am a life member myself, but I think it may be having the opposite effect then they were intending.

[electronman1729]

I heard back from cory gardner today from the email i sent him a few weeks ago in regards to the situation. i will post his reponse when i get home after work.

[Danimal]

Deleted

[TFOGGER]

Little white, wet, cold, pieces of the sky hit me in the face today.

The sky is falling!

Can I interest anyone in a slightly used SkyShield? 57155

Utterly useless when Skynet becomes self aware...

[USMC88-93]

I think I am laughing more about the fact General Dynamics all the sudden decided to surplus presumably millions of rounds within weeks of the potential ban date. I know they have sold components such as the bullets available at Wideners. But this is the first time I believe that General Dynamics loaded ammunition has been available and all of the sudden it is everywhere for ridiculous prices. They must have seen the writing on the wall and wanted in on some of the cash.

[Alpha2]

I'm still waiting for the Republican-dominated congress to become self aware. Please, someone tell them they won the last election. Big time. Really.
These are the WORST winners in elective history.

[electronman1729]

I heard back from cory gardner today from the email i sent him a few weeks ago in regards to the situation. i will post his reponse when i get home after work.

Response:

Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' proposal to re-classify certain ammunition as armor piercing. I appreciate you taking the time to write. It is an honor to serve you in the U.S. Senate and I hope you will continue to write with your thoughts and ideas on moving our country forward.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' (ATF) proposed change would no longer exempt SS109 and M855 ammunition from the Gun Control Act of 1968, deeming it as armor piercing. In some cases, ammunition considered to be used for sporting purposes would continue to be exempted. The public comment period for this proposal extends to March 16, 2015. I encourage you to submit your thoughts to the ATF regarding this potential ban.

Our right to bear arms should not be infringed. Congress must protect this right from the overreach of government agencies. Please rest assured that I will be monitoring this situation and the actions of the ATF closely and will keep your thoughts in mind.

Again, thank you for contacting me, and do not hesitate to do so again when an issue is important to you.

[Hound]

Wow.. That pretty much said nothing..... He must be a politician.

[electronman1729]

Wow.. That pretty much said nothing..... He must be a politician.

Not happy about it. Considering contacting the ATF was the first thing I did.

[Gman]

Wow.. That pretty much said nothing..... He must be a politician.

What do you mean? He said he would be monitoring the situation. He's a man of action. /SARCASM

I hope this doesn't mean he's in DC voting "Present".

Sent from my electronic leash.

[Great-Kazoo]

Not happy about it. Considering contacting the ATF was the first thing I did.

Why didn't you. Since you seem upset with the lack luster reply from gardner, figured it was the 1st thing you did.

[electronman1729]

Well looks like it is a canned response:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_20/577926_.html&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom

[Great-Kazoo]

Well looks like it is a canned response:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_20/577926_.html&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom

WE cannot depend on ANY politician having our best interest. I'll be penning a HEY dude letter to Cory tomorrow. Expressing my / our dismay regarding his sending canned letters to people who put him in office, based on his views. Informing him IF i / we wanted canned , prepackaged responses we'd be dealing with Democrats & liberals who did not care about us or the Constitution.
Sincerely , Howard Beale

[def90]

Perhaps the NRA has to be vague.. From what I've gathered on a few gunboards is that "M855 isn't accurate, sucks, I'd never buy it so who cares anyway".

At the bare minimum this will only make our sport more expensive as a large source of ammo will be off the market. The gov nor the commercial production market will never step in to fill this loss and existing ammo will only become more expensive and harder to find.

In reality as lead ammo begins to be regulated more and more for hunting and other purposes more ammo will be produced using various mixes of metals of which the ATF will continue on reclassifying as ammo piercing. If this isn't stopped now our future looks pretty bleak.

And Gardners response seems like a typical Republican response. Keep voting R and hoping someone will actually care.

[wctriumph]

I received the same response. I will write him back tonight.

[beast556]

I guarantee you will get the exact same responce, ask me how I know. None of them give a shit.





I received the same response. I will write him back tonight.

[BlasterBob]

I guarantee you will get the exact same responce, ask me how I know. None of them give a shit.

"None of them give a shit". Hey, they are Politicians - what more can we expect. [bulls]

[68Charger]

I guarantee you will get the exact same responce, ask me how I know. None of them give a shit.


"None of them give a shit". Hey, they are Politicians - what more can we expect. [bulls]

They give a shit about SOMETHING... letters from random people they are supposed to represent is NOT one of them.
There are some exceptions- I get the impression Sen. Holbert does... but he's an extreme minority.

So what gets Gardner excited... everyone has their "price"... like Joe Salazar likes young boys, right?[fag]

[JohnnyDrama]

Well looks like it is a canned response:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_20/577926_.html&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom


Same reply I got.

Doesn't he know we fired the guy he replaced for these shenanigans?

I wrote Scott Tipton about my concern last week and listed "Second Amendment" as the topic. I got a semi politically correct/expedient reply having to do with the Second Amendment and the need to protect Colorado's children. Just for fun I sent basically the same letter back. after thanking him for the reply, but made up a topic having to do with protecting our Constitutional rights. Still waiting for that reply.... I think I'll do the same for the honorable Senator Gardner.

[HoneyBadger]

Lol why is everyone panicking and paying so much for M855? Are you worried that you won't be able to shoot through walls? I'm sure any FMJ .223 bullet will do just fine... Still worried about not penetrating a barrier? Get a .30-06. [facepalm]

[68Charger]

Lol why is everyone panicking and paying so much for M855? Are you worried that you won't be able to shoot through walls? I'm sure any FMJ .223 bullet will do just fine... Still worried about not penetrating a barrier? Get a .30-06. [facepalm]

hell, even 300 Blackout will only require a barrel change and will be more barrier-blind than ANY 5.56 round... .458 socom even more so... if you're willing to move up to AR-10/lr308 platform 45Raptor is damn impressive... but even .308 is pretty barrier-blind

because m855 is NOT ARMOR PIERCING!!!! it is a "penetrator" round... somewhere between total crap and somewhat crap at penetrating barriers.

But this isn't about logic, science, truth, or even theory.. it's about politics and disarming people

[mutt]

Lol why is everyone panicking and paying so much for M855? Are you worried that you won't be able to shoot through walls? I'm sure any FMJ .223 bullet will do just fine... Still worried about not penetrating a barrier? Get a .30-06. [facepalm]

People are worried they may not be all to shoot at all. The m855 ban is a test run. If they can remove a domestically produced round like m855 from the market, then they'll be emboldened to go after the rest under the same false "police safety" BS. Since they couldn't ban the guns they'll ban the ammo to feed them. They'll go after all the other calibers in time. Even .30-06 won't be safe. This isn't something to take lightly.

This administration is going for all out gun control via ammo bans. Even if they can't get it all banned, how expensive do you think ammo is going to get when a good percentage of it is suddenly removed from the market? I'd be willing to bet m855 accounts for almost 50% of the .223/5.56 bulk ammo supply. Panic prices now may seem like a bargain in a few months. Pricing gun owners out of the market is as good as a ban. It worked for machine guns.

[JohnnyDrama]

But this isn't about logic, science, truth, or even theory.. it's about politics and disarming people

I don't even own a firearm chambered for 5.56 NATO. I write/e mail/fax my Congressmen because I don't want them coming after the cartridges I do have next.

[HoneyBadger]

People are worried they may not be all to shoot at all. The m855 ban is a test run. If they can remove a domestically produced round like m855 from the market, then they'll be emboldened to go after the rest under the same false "police safety" BS. Since they couldn't ban the guns they'll ban the ammo to feed them. They'll go after all the other calibers in time. Even .30-06 won't be safe. This isn't something to take lightly.

This administration is going for all out gun control via ammo bans. Even if they can't get it all banned, how expensive do you think ammo is going to get when a good percentage of it is suddenly removed from the market? I'd be willing to bet m855 accounts for almost 50% of the .223/5.56 bulk ammo supply. Panic prices now may seem like a bargain in a few months. Pricing gun owners out of the market is as good as a ban. It worked for machine guns.
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that the legislation is good. It isn't. It is a very clear chipping away of liberty and I hate it.

I just don't get why people are willing to pay significantly more for M855 than M193 now, or ever. By all means, stock up on whatever you need, but don't be wasteful about it with your limited resources (money).

[Rooskibar03]

Can't even get 55g at a decent price let alone if you can find in bulk. Bunch of horse crap, just want some ammo to play with my soon to be aquired can.

[mutt]

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that the legislation is good. It isn't. It is a very clear chipping away of liberty and I hate it.

I just don't get why people are willing to pay significantly more for M855 than M193 now, or ever. By all means, stock up on whatever you need, but don't be wasteful about it with your limited resources (money).

I'm not saying you like the ruling (It's not really legislation. The ATF is making things up as they go.) but I think too many gun owners are taking this too lightly. Too many have the "What's the big deal?" attitude. It's a big deal.

And people are paying significantly more for m193 as well. You can't buy ANY.223/5.56 bulk ammo at a decent price now. It's practically the same for 7.62x39. If you haven't stocked up already on your preferred flavor, you missed the boat and hopefully you can wait till the next lull (if there is one) in the storm to buy. Our side, as usual, is myopic and only focusing on the specific issue at hand and not seeing the big picture. This is about far more than m855.

[mtnrider]

People are worried they may not be all to shoot at all. The m855 ban is a test run. If they can remove a domestically produced round like m855 from the market, then they'll be emboldened to go after the rest under the same false "police safety" BS. Since they couldn't ban the guns they'll ban the ammo to feed them. They'll go after all the other calibers in time. Even .30-06 won't be safe. This isn't something to take lightly.

This administration is going for all out gun control via ammo bans. Even if they can't get it all banned, how expensive do you think ammo is going to get when a good percentage of it is suddenly removed from the market? I'd be willing to bet m855 accounts for almost 50% of the .223/5.56 bulk ammo supply. Panic prices now may seem like a bargain in a few months. Pricing gun owners out of the market is as good as a ban. It worked for machine guns.

^Winner winner, chicken dinner. This is just the beginning of things to come. M855 today, 193 tomorrow. Pretty soon you are only left with $3+ a round specialty hunting ammo (that is imposable to find). Pisses my off as I look around the web and see people comment "I don't shoot that anyway go ahead and ban it" They are missing the bigger picture,

[HoneyBadger]

(It's not really legislation. The ATF is making things up as they go.)
I stand corrected. Very good point.


^Winner winner, chicken dinner. This is just the beginning of things to come. M855 today, 193 tomorrow. Pretty soon you are only left with $3+ a round specialty hunting ammo (that is imposable to find). Pisses my off as I look around the web and see people comment "I don't shoot that anyway go ahead and ban it" They are missing the bigger picture,
Potentially true. That sort of outcome wouldn't surprise me at all. As to the folks who don't care... That just frustrating as all Hell.

[Hound]

Funny you should say that. I met and talked with Rhonda Fields back in 2013 when the stupid laws were just starting to be put out. I really did not know who she was at the time. Her first question to me as a gun owner was "How can we get at the ammo?". I said "You can't". She did not like this answer. It struck me as odd since the laws were on BGC's and Magazines.

Just saying....


People are worried they may not be able to shoot at all. The m855 ban is a test run. If they can remove a domestically produced round like m855 from the market, then they'll be emboldened to go after the rest under the same false "police safety" BS. Since they couldn't ban the guns they'll ban the ammo to feed them. They'll go after all the other calibers in time. Even .30-06 won't be safe. This isn't something to take lightly.

This administration is going for all out gun control via ammo bans. Even if they can't get it all banned, how expensive do you think ammo is going to get when a good percentage of it is suddenly removed from the market? I'd be willing to bet m855 accounts for almost 50% of the .223/5.56 bulk ammo supply. Panic prices now may seem like a bargain in a few months. Pricing gun owners out of the market is as good as a ban. It worked for machine guns.

[Irving]

There is a difference between fighting the legislation and running out and panic buying the ammo though.

[mutt]

Funny you should say that. I met and talked with Rhonda Fields back in 2013 when the stupid laws were just starting to be put out. I really did not know who she was at the time. Her first question to me as a gun owner was "How can we get at the ammo?". I said "You can't". She did not like this answer. It struck me as odd since the laws were on BGC's and Magazines.

Just saying....

Their side is unified with one goal - total disarmament. Nothing they say, do or inquire about is harmless or unrelated. Their only real division is how fast they want to achieve their goal and using how much force. Some want it it done over night with paramilitary thugs kicking in doors and dragging people into the streets. Others are content with a more "civilized" approach - the long game of death by 1000 cuts. The rest support something in between but the end goal is always the same. It's kinda impressive considering most of their foot soldiers, like Rhonda, don't have 2 functioning brain cells in their skulls. Their command structure is highly organized.

Too bad we don't even really have a side. We're like a bunch of retards screaming past each other on the short bus. A bunch of self-interested sub-groups who really only care about their small part of the 2A and are all too willing to sacrifice the rest of it so they can keep their cherished part for just a little longer. Even our so called leadership is suspect. The likes of the NRA more often than not fails to inspire me. I have more than once wondered who's side they are really on.

[mutt]

There is a difference between fighting the legislation and running out and panic buying the ammo though.

Again - it's not legislation. It's a royal decree disguised as an ATF ruling. Congress never authorized the ATF to regulate non AP rifle rounds. Yet it's funny how all three branches, especially Congress and the Courts, conveniently overlook this detail and let the ATF redefine what AP is whenever it wants. There's no question who's side the Govt as a whole is on. You really can't petition a corrupt government for redress. Sometimes panic buying, especially for those who didn't plan ahead, is the only real option. All we really can hope is that money talks and the lobbyists for the ammo industry grease enough palms to make this go away for a while.

[Irving]

The point that I'm trying to make is that if people are really worried about, they should write in (I did), as that takes MUCH less effort than running around town trying to buy something. Priorities I guess.

[mutt]

The point that I'm trying to make is that if people are really worried about, they should write in (I did), as that takes MUCH less effort than running around town trying to buy something. Priorities I guess.

Writing in may take less effort but it's not effective. It all gets deleted without ever getting read. Even our representatives could care less about our letters, no matter what their generic auto-responders say. They only care when lobbyists come bearing checks. Hopefully the likes of the NRA, GOA and NSSF are writing a lot of checks for the cause.

This will get decided by money. Either the ammo industry will lose too much money and they'll fight it with lobbyists and lawyers, or they will get lucrative contracts from the govt to offset their loses and they'll quietly go along with the ban. Considering who's president I'm not sure if offering contracts is on the table. Bankrupting the ammo industry may be a goal as well.

[Irving]

I meant writing into the ATF, since they have to review all the comments.

[mutt]

I meant writing into the ATF, since they have to review all the comments.

Like that matters. I am sure some over worked intern is busy mailing off canned response letters.

[Gman]

'murica. The best government money can buy.

[rockhound]

write in and state your case of course, but in the meantime prepare

[Great-Kazoo]

Like that matters. I am sure some over worked intern is busy mailing off canned response letters.

The ATF unlike one's .gov rep IS required to read AND respond to each letter & e-mail they receive. It's one if not the only reason the CLEO sign off for Form 1 application implementation, has been pushed back till May.

[DavieD55]

Our side, as usual, is myopic and only focusing on the specific issue at hand and not seeing the big picture. This is about far more than m855.


This^

[Irving]

The ATF unlike one's .gov rep IS required to read AND respond to each letter & e-mail they receive. It's one if not the only reason the CLEO sign off for Form 1 application implementation, has been pushed back till May.

This. That CLEO write off issue came up a while back I believe as well.

[mutt]

The ATF unlike one's .gov rep IS required to read AND respond to each letter & e-mail they receive. It's one if not the only reason the CLEO sign off for Form 1 application implementation, has been pushed back till May.

A formality will not change their minds. I get what you are saying about clogging up the system but it will not change the outcome. They aren't required to base their rules on how many for/against letters they get. Come May, or whenever they get done mailing out the last form letter, the CLEO sign off requirement will most likely happen. M855 is no different unless real money gets involved.

[mutt]

'murica. The best government money can buy.

Right. An no matter how corrupt and repugnant such a system is, our side needs to get better at buying govt. It's the only real option.

[Herman]

Just came across this, http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/03/04/Police-rep-says-proposed-556mm-ammo-ban-unnecessary/3551425517494/

"In the House of Representatives, more than half of lawmakers have signed a letter challenging the ban,"



I wouldn't mind seeing a list of who signed it. Not that the atf cares what anyone thinks.

[00tec]

Just came across this, http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/03/04/Police-rep-says-proposed-556mm-ammo-ban-unnecessary/3551425517494/

"In the House of Representatives, more than half of lawmakers have signed a letter challenging the ban,"



I wouldn't mind seeing a list of who signed it. Not that the atf cares what anyone thinks.
Article on The Blaze has a pdf with all of the signatures

[EvolvingTactical]

Should be interesting to see how this plays out now that lawmakers are challenging the ban.

[colorider]

All I kniw is the 223,556 supply is a disaster right now. What a fuckimg mess.

[Great-Kazoo]

All I kniw is the 223,556 supply is a disaster right now. What a fuckimg mess.

The ammo supply shouldn't be a mess for anyone, unless one was not prepared.

[68Charger]

The ammo supply shouldn't be a mess for anyone, unless one was not prepared.
Don't confuse 'supply' (which is a flow, or ability to acquire more) with 'stock' (what you have on hand)

[Great-Kazoo]

Don't confuse 'supply' (which is a flow, or ability to acquire more) with 'stock' (what you have on hand)

I'm not. One shouldn't be worried about supply IF they have sufficient Stock. It's the panic calls that ask you IF you want to sell any ammo since they only have 500 rounds . Those folks have an issue with Supply since they didn't Stock up.

[th3w01f]

Not that it will make any difference in the final decision but the Petition is still moving along -https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj

I'd like to see it hit way more than 100K.

Currently at 79,828 with 10 days to go.

[hollohas]

Police say ban isn't needed.


"Any ammunition is of concern to police in the wrong hands, but this specific round has historically not posed a law enforcement problem," said James Pasco, executive director of the Washington office of the Fraternal Order of Police (http://www.fop.net/contact/#), the world's largest organization of sworn law enforcement officers, with more than 325,000 members.
He told Secrets that the round used mostly for target practice "is not typically used against law enforcement."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/police-say-obama-bullet-ban-isnt-needed-ar-15-round-isnt-a-threat/article/2560964

[68Charger]

I'm not. One shouldn't be worried about supply IF they have sufficient Stock. It's the panic calls that ask you IF you want to sell any ammo since they only have 500 rounds . Those folks have an issue with Supply since they didn't Stock up.

True, but given that when supply will be restored is unknown, any amount of depletion of stock will eventually result in stock going to zero.
They are only experiencing the supply problem because they had a stock problem...
if they're not using any ammo regularly, then it's not a supply or stock problem- it's just a comfort problem. [panic]
but yeah, assuming supply will be constant in this political environment is a mistake...

I just feel like arguing semantics today I guess...

[Great-Kazoo]

True, but given that when supply will be restored is unknown, any amount of depletion of stock will eventually result in stock going to zero.
They are only experiencing the supply problem because they had a stock problem...
if they're not using any ammo regularly, then it's not a supply or stock problem- it's just a comfort problem. [panic]
but yeah, assuming supply will be constant in this political environment is a mistake...

I just feel like arguing semantics today I guess...

I'm in. Once again it goes back How many years? Failure to keep a supply of ammo in stock for the long haul is something people who were not old enough, or born for the 89 & 94 bans, is their problem. One should have learned (again newer shooters) to Buy cheap, stack deep. Or when funds were available to buy, buy, buy. I like others not only buy when priced right, we also reload. Which is another topic we can go to as necessary ;)

[68Charger]

I'm in. Once again it goes back How many years? Failure to keep a supply of ammo in stock for the long haul is something people who were not old enough, or born for the 89 & 94 bans, is their problem. One should have learned (again newer shooters) to Buy cheap, stack deep. Or when funds were available to buy, buy, buy. I like others not only buy when priced right, we also reload. Which is another topic we can go to as necessary ;)

So why didn't you stock enough to sell to these people who are asking you for ammo now? You had to know this was coming... [Coffee] (now I'm just being facetious)
Just for the record I'm arguing semantics, I'm not complaining I don't have enough ammo... My wife would complain I have too much (if she really knew)

I reload too, but only on a single stage press currently... so I frequently don't find the time. Maybe it's time I funded a bullet swage press (make my own boolits from .22LR shell casings) and a Progressive... I didn't start reloading for volume, it was for customization...

Somewhere I've got plans on how to make a bullet swaging press... much like the Walnut Hill... just would need the dies

[ray1970]

I stash factory ammo and just shoot my reloads. That way I don't burn through the factory stuff. The factory stuff is for "emergencies."

[EvolvingTactical]

I'm in. Once again it goes back How many years? Failure to keep a supply of ammo in stock for the long haul is something people who were not old enough, or born for the 89 & 94 bans, is their problem. One should have learned (again newer shooters) to Buy cheap, stack deep. Or when funds were available to buy, buy, buy. I like others not only buy when priced right, we also reload. Which is another topic we can go to as necessary ;)

I have always tried to buy cheap, stack deep, but sadly due to my situation (full time college student, with part-time job) I have not always had funds for ammo. I could see another ban/scare coming as soon as the ATF banned 5.45 7N6 for the AK-74. Just wish I would have stacked deeper. [facepalm]

[OtterbatHellcat]

I'm already stacked deep, but ordered 4,500 rds. of assorted stuff yesterday, for myself and two other people....nothing panic about it, really.

It was just time to get some more, and yes I reload.

[wctriumph]

Cheaperthandirt has 420 cans of XM193 for $152.95.

[spqrzilla]

I'm more than a bit baffled why anyone would think signing a White House website petition had any meaning at all.

Submit a official comment to the ATF proposed regulation, they have to respond to those under the APA.

[Rooskibar03]

It would appear the rule has already been written.

http://bearingarms.com/breaking-obama-administration-already-banned-m855-ammo-illegally/

from the article.

Because of the lengthy amount of time it takes for OMB to approve a new ATF Regulation Guide, ATF’s comment period is just for show. ATF officials and the White House have (and never did) no interest in actually listening to or considering comments that are currently being submitted.

[th3w01f]

I'm more than a bit baffled why anyone would think signing a White House website petition had any meaning at all.

Submit a official comment to the ATF proposed regulation, they have to respond to those under the APA.

I did both; truth be told, I don't think making the ATF spend 2 seconds on a response to a comment will make any more of difference than the petition.

[hatidua]

I wrote and called hundreds of times in the run-up to the CO elections and the D's went ahead and did what they jolly well wanted, no doubt rather amused at our efforts. Several of those people ended up being sent down the road due to a recall election. That was nice, but we don't have the recall-election option with the ATF, or with the great leader. I suspect the next two years will be somewhat unpleasant for those who think their voice affects how they are governed.

[mindfold]

Yeah he started again today.....easier to buy a gun than fresh vegetables. Now comes another EO from him by passing the people.


Sent from my tin foil coated mind reading device.

[hollohas]

Apparently the comment period is fake. This report says the ATF regulation guide published in Jan already had removed the exemption for M855.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/daniel-zimmerman/pavlich-atf-already-bans-m855-in-latest-regulation-guide/

Whoops, sorry for the repost.

[hollohas]

I think we all need to write our reps once again and let them know about this little ATF fake out.

[Skully]

Ooops

BREAKING: ATF Claims M855 Ban Was a “Publishing Error” (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/robert-farago/breaking-atf-claims-m855-ban-was-a-publishing-error/)


Everyone stop getting their panties in a twist just yet.

[Coffee]


ATF Press Release on recently revealed Regulation Guide Announcing M855 Ammo Ban (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/daniel-zimmerman/pavlich-atf-already-bans-m855-in-latest-regulation-guide/):
On Feb. 13, 2015, ATF released for public comment a proposed framework, including legal and technical analysis, to guide its determination on what ammunition is “primarily intended for sporting purposes” for purposes of granting exemptions to the Gun Control Act’s prohibition on Armor Piecing Ammunition. This proposed framework is posted for public comment only; no final decisions have been made as to its adoption . . .
Media reports have noted that the 2014 ATF Regulation Guide published online does not contain a listing of the exemptions for Armor Piercing Ammunition, and concluding that the absence of this listing indicates these exemptions have been rescinded.
Please be advised that ATF has not rescinded any Armor Piercing Ammunition exemption, and the fact they are not listed in the 2014 online edition of the regulations, was an error, which has no legal impact on the validity of the exemptions. The existing exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, which apply to 5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 projectiles (identified by a green coating on the projectile tip), and the U.S .30-06 M2AP projectile (identified by a black coating on the projectile tip), remain in effect.
The listing of Armor Piercing Ammunition exemptions can be found in the 2005 ATF Regulation Guide on page 166, which is posted here.
The 2014 Regulation Guide will be corrected in PDF format to include the listing of Armor Piercing Ammunition exemptions and posted shortly. The e-book/iBook version of the Regulation Guide will be corrected in the near future. ATF apologizes for any confusion caused by this publishing error.

[BPTactical]

Interdasting: http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-atf-issues-statement-saying-paperwork-showing-m855-banned-was-publishing-error/


If this is true.....WTF?
"Lost" emails
F&F
Benghazi
Private email servers

And now? "Printing errors"?

Surrealistic world

[Skully]

Interdasting: http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-atf-issues-statement-saying-paperwork-showing-m855-banned-was-publishing-error/

Beat you to it Bert, BTW you get any good drugs there?


[Beer]

[th3w01f]

LOL, now what do I do with all this M855? I know the obvious answer is to shoot it but that just doesn't feel right.

[th3w01f]

LOL, now what do I do with all this M855? I know the obvious answer is to shoot it but that just doesn't feel right.

Maybe over paint the green with black and up the price by 10X?

*Edit

Upon reading more closely it sound like the BATFE is saying that the ban wasn't already a done deal, not that they're not still planning on the ban. Is that everyone else's take on this?

[Skully]

Maybe over paint the green with black and up the price by 10X?

*Edit

Upon reading more closely it sound like the BATFE is saying that the ban wasn't already a done deal, not that they're not still planning on the ban. Is that everyone else's take on this?

That is how I was interpreting it. Ban still to go into effect, but comments till excepted.

After the last news article(s) just a short time ago and how the ban is already in effect and the appeal comments is only for show, I think outrage was about to endure and they backtracked with their "publishing error" excuse to temporarily calm the masses.

[kidicarus13]

I just read through all the lies and read that the ban will go into effect March 16.

[roberth]

Interdasting: http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-atf-issues-statement-saying-paperwork-showing-m855-banned-was-publishing-error/


If this is true.....WTF?
"Lost" emails
F&F
Benghazi
Private email servers

And now? "Printing errors"?

Surrealistic world

Communist world, it only needs to make sense to our masters.

[BPTactical]

Read it carefully...
They never said their proposed ban was a publishing error. They only said that them leaving the exemptions out was a publishing error and the previous exemptions still stand for the moment. They still plan on banning M855/SS109.


The fucking games....

[cstone]

Can I just get my cheap spam cans of 7N6 back?

Is that too much to ask for? [Rant1]

[Skully]

The fucking games....

Perfect agreed upon sentiment.

[zteknik]

Next in the news- The United States Constitution was printed entirely wrong.....Will be updated accordingly and you just have to wait until after your prosecuted to see what was changed.....
Carry on, nothing to see here......


Pick up that can citizen....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZUEbRPY2c

[Gman]

LOL, now what do I do with all this M855? I know the obvious answer is to shoot it but that just doesn't feel right.

http://youtu.be/4F4qzPbcFiA