M855/ss109

[beast556]

Didn't see it posted any where here yet, M855/ss109 is going to be reclassified by the batf as armor piercing. They killed the 5.45 and now m855. Get it while you can and stack it deep.

[jhood001]

Source?

[beast556]

There is a big thread on arfcom about what is going on with links to the batf.

[DenverGP]

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo

[Uberjager]

That feel when no m995.

[Bailey Guns]

Just another reasonable and common sense gun-safety measure brought to you by your socialist president.

[buffalobo]

Another step on the path...

Classic incrementalism.

[roberth]

Another example of why the pro-2A communist is a mythical creature.

[02ducky]

Perfect, more government overreach.

More BS,.more marching orders from the idiots, so sick and tired of these stupid laws that are senseless.

[kidicarus13]

Expect to see all M855 Out Of Stock soon.

[cstone]

When was the last crime committed by anyone using M855?

[Bitter Clinger]

Bovine scat. Make sure to call Mr. Gardner, we need to stop this shit.

[th3w01f]

Looks like it's already gone online.

[beast556]

Bovine scat. Make sure to call Mr. Gardner, we need to stop this shit.

From what I understand it is already a done deal just time till it goes in to effect.

[bobbyfairbanks]

F################################################# ################################################## ################################################## ######3

Ya and thats bullshit.

[Dave]

Yeah, quick check of my usual online purchase sites yield no 62 gr green tip in stock. Only 3 sites, but still frustrating.

[th3w01f]

Yeah, quick check of my usual online purchase sites yield no 62 gr green tip in stock. Only 3 sites, but still frustrating.
Found some at ammunitiondepot and brownells.... well see if they ship.

[Big E3]

As much as I hate to I just ordered from CTD because they had some Lake City bulk

[Brian]

I almost ordered a bunch last night when I read the original thread and people were counting down stock online. But then I checked the price I ordered my last box of IMI M855 at, compared to the prices it's at now, and decided I really didn't need any that much. I don't shoot M855 that often. But this still stinks.

[Big E3]

I have wondered how long before BO did this. The importation of Russian 5.45x39 military ammo was stopped because of the armor piercing bullet and manufacture of AK pistols to shoot it. So I imagine they decided since we have all of these AR pistols now they would use the same premise to halt civilian access to M855. And all of this is done without congressional approval, so may not help to call Cory, but still worth a try.

[kidicarus13]

m855 is the new .22

[68Charger]

I'm tempted to order some- I have some on hand, and compared to other calibers, m855 isn't that effective anyway.

[th3w01f]

m855 is the new .22

LOL, exactly what I'm hoping. Maybe someone will stop stockpiling .22 and switch to m855 for a while.

[nynco]

The test case for this was the soviet ammo ban from a year ago. They twisted the laws into a pretzel and set a precedence to use the armor piercing laws as a means to ban any bullet they wanted. Next up the most popular bullet in America. Now... combine this with the current work to ban lead for all bullets and what is left to use for bullets? Now they are using precedent to ban anything and everything. You can chamber a 50 Cal round into a rifle. If you chop off the rifle butt stock of every rifle ever made.... it is now by definition a pistol. So trying to define rounds meant for either is useless and lawless. But if the end goal is to ban anything and everything....well they have their effective means

If lead is to be banned (EPA garbage reasons) and bullets can not use any of these following materials in pure or combination alloy form - " one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium". Please tell me what material has the ability to hold form and enough mass which can be used? Because that basically covers all things on the periodic table and their combining alloys which are suitable for use as bullets.

[zimagold]

Natchezss.com still has bulk quantities in stock in case anyone is looking. 40-45 cents a round.

I was ordering a case of 9mm. Looks like prices/stock haven't changed yet.

[Gman]

Those that do still have it online seems the price is going up. M193 prices haven't moved.

If you want it for about $376/1000, here you go; Federal 5.56 62 Grain Green Tip 12,500 rounds (http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM855BAR&src=tpSlrByr2)

...but there's a quantity of 5 limit.

[68Charger]

I was also able to find some Prvi Partizan at www.ammosupplywarehouse.com (http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com) for $0.38/rd shipped

[zimagold]

I guess we'll never get to see the new 855A1 projectiles on the market. They seemed like they could be amusing as a sabot load for 308.

[SideShow Bob]

I want to beat CTD, so,

Up for sale is two(2) .30 ammo cans (420 rounds per can, on stripper clips) of 62 gr. steel core penetrator tip 5.56X45 Federal Lake City.

Must be FTF in Aurora, buyer must provide a signed & notorized affidavit & color copy of photo ID that they are over 21 years of age, are not a convicted felon and able possess ammunition persuant to all federal and state regulations.


For the low low price of $525 per can. Firm. (See my sig. line for a definition of firm !)

EDIT: Both cans SPF.

[wctriumph]

MidwayUSA and Cheaperthandirt had it in stock a couple of days ago for $169.99 for the 420 round cans. MidwayUSA now showing out of stock, back order OK for $169.99. Last night the Walmart in Ft. Collins had two cans for $179.99.

[68Charger]

I guess we'll never get to see the new 855A1 projectiles on the market. They seemed like they could be amusing as a sabot load for 308.

actually, the way the law works it applies to loaded ammo... you can buy all the AP projectiles you want, as long as someone puts them up for sale (price will certainly go up).
It's even legal to assemble them into ammo... just not legal to sell "AP ammo" to lowly civilians- you have to roll your own.

[nynco]

wouldn't that be moot... because then you are a manufacturer of banned items and just as guilty under some other twisted interpretation.

[KestrelBike]

keep reachin, batf. Can't wait.

[SideShow Bob]

wouldn't that be moot... because then you are a manufacturer of banned items and just as guilty under some other twisted interpretation.

So, would the mere possession of penetrator bullets (projectiles) and other reloading componants be considered "Constructive Intent" ?
Should we start flooding the ATF with letters for clarification ?

[hatidua]

So, would the mere possession of penetrator bullets (projectiles) and other reloading componants be considered "Constructive Intent" ?
Should we start flooding the ATF with letters for clarification ?

it worked well with the Sig-Brace, I suspect it'd do wonders for most any other product Bloomberg opposes. If only he'd had his minions write continuous letters to the FDA about large soda's, maybe those could have been banned at a national level...

Next maybe they'll deem M193 bad as it "goes too fast".

[Gman]

Thanks again for Obama, nynco.

Business must be slow convincing Democrats to leave their hands off of our freedom.

[Bailey Guns]

Thanks again for Obama, nynco.

He's not the only one.

[nynco]

Thanks again for Obama, nynco.

Business must be slow convincing Democrats to leave their hands off of our freedom.


I was one of the door knockers who volunteered many days for the recall Houdak campaign.... I did something to fight it and I no longer support Obama.

[68Charger]

wouldn't that be moot... because then you are a manufacturer of banned items and just as guilty under some other twisted interpretation.

You're only a manufacturer if you are building a product FOR SALE. That's where the alphabet gang gets their jurisdiction in this case- commerce clause. If you are assembling them for your own use, then you're not "manufacturing" (until they re-define that term, too).

[brutal]

Glad I stocked up on M855 last year.

That is all.

[Mtn.man]

Federal Lake City XM855 5.56 NATO Full Metal Jacket, 62 Grain Steel Penetrator, 3104 fps, 120 $50.89

[ChunkyMonkey]

Sigh.. Panic started early on this one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[COcz]

Sportsman's Warehouse in Loveland has prolly 20-30 cans left. Marked $200, but actually $180.

[hatidua]

Use "SH1097" for free shipping:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/200-rounds-of-ppu-223-556x45mm-62-grain-fmjbt-m855-battle-pack-ammo?a=1789658&SID=i65k5mijg500b0av012b1&CJ=1&cjaffilid=6151265&cjaffsite=VigLink&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=VigLink&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=Redirect-Enabled+Deep+Link

[Bailey Guns]

Maybe instead of lighting up retailer's cash registers it's time to light up ATF's faxes and email accounts:


How to comment – from the BATFE ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments.

Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method):


ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov


Fax: (202) 648-9741.


Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.


Probably wouldn't hurt to do the same with your representative and senators.

[Bailey Guns]

Sigh.. Panic started early on this one.

No kidding.

[cableguy11]

Sportsman's Warehouse in Loveland has prolly 20-30 cans left. Marked $200, but actually $180.

Damn, I just called them and they told me they were out...Truck in on Monday...

[zimagold]

Those that do still have it online seems the price is going up. M193 prices haven't moved.

If you want it for about $376/1000, here you go; Federal 5.56 62 Grain Green Tip 12,500 rounds (http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM855BAR&src=tpSlrByr2)

...but there's a quantity of 5 limit.

Out of Stock, Someone has deep pockets and is feeling speculative.

[Sawin]

now i know why i saw a guy in Westminster arms, buying ever box of m855 in stock... Wish i would have known this earlier this morning :(

[lex137]

I have a can from a while back. Just checked Walmart at soutlands no federal. They had some other brand for $475 not sure round amount was over 500.

[Gman]

Out of Stock, Someone has deep pockets and is feeling speculative.
Or maybe it's a group buy.

[hatidua]

Sigh.. Panic started early on this one


I think it's a case of some people having long enough memories to recall how well .22 bounced back...-or didn't, as the case may be.

[Hound]

Guys....have you actually read the ATF article.... Page 1? It clearly states this is only for Handguns.


It is important to note that only projectiles that meet thestatutory definition of “armor piercing” – i.e., those made out of the specific listed materials thatmay be used in a handgun – are subject to the statutory restrictions. As a result, manufacturersare, and will continue to be, free to manufacture projectiles from non-restricted materials,completely independent of the application of this framework or any exemptions


[L]et me make clear what this bill does not do. Our legislation would not limit the availability of standard rifle ammunition with armor-piercing capability. We recognizethat soft body armor is not intended to stop high powered rifle cartridges. Time andagain Congressman Biaggi and I have stressed that only bullets capable of penetratingbody armor and designed to be fired from a handgun would be banned; rifle ammunitionwould not be covered.
This looks more aimed at 5.7x28 since they have been wanting to go after that for years and since it is actual handgun ammo.

Ummm still bad but wrong ammo. Somebody is trying to start another [panic]

Looks like it might be working

[hatidua]

Guys....have you actually read the ATF article.... Page 1?
Ummm still bad but wrong ammo. Somebody is trying to start another [panic]

Looks like it might be working

Have you actually read the article, pages 14/15 might be of particular interest...

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_proj ectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purpos es.pdf

[jerrymrc]

I myself as ammo could care less. I do have a few bullets put away to load should I need to but it will just get put away like the .308 AP rounds. Just my take on it.

[Hound]

Have you actually read the article, pages 14/15 might be of particular interest...

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_proj ectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purpos es.pdf

Ya, Page 15 is the capper but it makes no sense since the law clearly states handguns. AR15 pistols are not handguns (they even acknowledge this in the paper), concealable, not being used in mass cops shooting and have always been recognized as such. They are looking for comments and as 41P has shown we can change things. With an R Congress and threat of 2016 gun owner uprising (that has swung previous elections) I think this will be put off until after 2016 if there is enough push back.

[sneakerd]

+1 on "could care less". I can make the same hole in everything I would care to aim at with PMC 223, and that ammo is top quality.

[hatidua]

Ya, Page 15 is the capper but it makes no sense

When the ATF starts to make sense, y'all let me know :)

[hatidua]

+1 on "could care less".

"could", or "couldn't"?

[sneakerd]

Obviously the correct term is "couldn't", if you wish to be the grammar Nazi. I was simply quoting the original post by jerrymrc.

[Gman]

The AR-basedhandguns and rifles utilize the same magazines and share identical receivers. These AR-typehandguns were not commercially available when the armor piercing ammunition exemption wasgranted in 1986. To ensure consistency, upon final implementation of the sporting purposeframework outlined above, ATF must withdraw the exemptions for 5.56 mm “green tip”ammunition, including both the SS109 and M855 cartridges.7
The way I read it, because the ammunition can be used in both semi-auto handguns and rifles, the ATF has decided to vacate the previous exemption for rifles.

...and if you "care less", it means you still care. [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

Guys....have you actually read the ATF article.... Page 1? It clearly states this is only for Handguns.

No, it clearly states:


It is important to note that only projectiles that meet the statutory definition of "armor piercing", i.e., those made out of the specific listed materials that may be used in a handgun are subject to the statutory restrictions.

Pages 14 and 15 clearly explain the ATF is withdrawing the previous exemption for 5.56mm ammunition, specifically M855 and SS109 variants, and further states it will no longer be available to civilians by manufacturers, retailers and/or importers. It's not ambiguous at all. Their reasoning specifically states this is because the ammunition can be used in a handgun version of AR-15 style rifles that weren't widely available (if at all) when the exemption for M855 and SS109 variants of 5.56mm ammo were granted.

[wctriumph]

The BATF banned steel core 7.62X39 when someone made a pistol that could shoot it. Once there is a handgun that shoots a rifle round that is AP in the rifle the BATF will ban it. Good thing no one makes a handgun that shoots 30.06 or the CMP will be stuck with a lot of that surplus Greek that they have.

[CobaltSkink]

Whenever Obama has a press conference, I remember what Slim Pickens said about the new Le Petomane Thruway.

[Gman]

http://youtu.be/SbWg-mozGsU

[nynco]

Pretty much any riffle can be made into a hand gun by cutting the stock off. This ruling is total bunk. The Russian ammo was done as a trial balloon. This is being done to set a precedent for banning ammo. Couple this with the lead ban being pushed and whats left to use for bullets?

[KestrelBike]

+1 on "could care less". I can make the same hole in everything I would care to aim at with PMC 223, and that ammo is top quality.

Strap on your Tin-Foil/FUD hat. But, someone on some other forum mused that a BHO "perk" side-affect for banning green-tips would be that with such a huge portion of the .223/556 ammo now off the table, it'd make the regular 55grn go up in price. But that's for supply/demand economists to debate.

[Great-Kazoo]

Strap on your Tin-Foil/FUD hat. But, someone on some other forum mused that a BHO "perk" side-affect for banning green-tips would be that with such a huge portion of the .223/556 ammo now off the table, it'd make the regular 55grn go up in price. But that's for supply/demand economists to debate.

It's one more reason when prices were down, we still purchased reloading components. It's another panic buy, one of many to come, as long as this Islamist Sympathizing / race baiting bomb thrower is in office.

[Justin]

Another example of why the pro-2A communist is a mythical creature.

I've seen plenty of pro-gun lefites on the internet.

Pictures of unicorns, too.

[def90]

Well, people must be hoarding M193 as well.. all the usual places seem to be out of it. [pileoshit]

[def90]

Guys....have you actually read the ATF article.... Page 1? It clearly states this is only for Handguns.




This looks more aimed at 5.7x28 since they have been wanting to go after that for years and since it is actual handgun ammo.

Ummm still bad but wrong ammo. Somebody is trying to start another [panic]

Looks like it might be working

The spirit of the original law passed by Congress back in the day was that this only applied to ammo originally designed for and manufactured as a handgun cartridge. The BATF has twisted the law to apply to any ammo that can be fired from a "handgun" regardless of the original manufactured intent of the ammo in question. Under the wording of the original law none of this ammo including the 7.62x39, 5.45x39 that has been banned would have ever been included. Now that people make handgun versions of AKs and ARs the BATF has decided on their own authority to twist the law to proclaim that these rifle cartridges are now handgun cartridges.

[Cujo0920]

How many so-called Second Amendment supporters have actually done anything more than whinging on the Internet in response to these incremental gun control laws? Probably no more than 3%, at best, are active NRA or RMGO members and supporters who are carrying the rest of the do-nothings on their backs.

[Zundfolge]

[tin foil hat]So the ATF signs off on the SIG Brace so that the number of AR-15 handguns will swell to the point that they can claim they are "common" ... thus making 5.56mm a "common handgun caliber" so they could ban M855 (and then double cross us on the SIG Brace too).[/tin foil hat]



The BATF has twisted the law to apply to any ammo that can be fired from a "handgun" regardless of the original manufactured intent of the ammo in question.
Thanks to Thompson Center Arms, this "logic" could be expanded to include ALL rifle cartridges (since pretty much any rifle cartridge will penetrate armor).

[Duman]

[tin foil hat]So the ATF signs off on the SIG Brace so that the number of AR-15 handguns will swell to the point that they can claim they are "common" ... thus making 5.56mm a "common handgun caliber" so they could ban M855 (and then double cross us on the SIG Brace too).[/tin foil hat]

IIRC, the fear of AR ammo bans like this were first voiced when Olympic Arms first came out with their AR pistol. Need to do some digging...

[Hound]

Well put.


The spirit of the original law passed by Congress back in the day was that this only applied to ammo originally designed for and manufactured as a handgun cartridge. The BATF has twisted the law to apply to any ammo that can be fired from a "handgun" regardless of the original manufactured intent of the ammo in question. Under the wording of the original law none of this ammo including the 7.62x39, 5.45x39 that has been banned would have ever been included. Now that people make handgun versions of AKs and ARs the BATF has decided on their own authority to twist the law to proclaim that these rifle cartridges are now handgun cartridges.

[jhood001]

[tin foil hat]So the ATF signs off on the SIG Brace so that the number of AR-15 handguns will swell to the point that they can claim they are "common" ... thus making 5.56mm a "common handgun caliber" so they could ban M855 (and then double cross us on the SIG Brace too).[/tin foil hat]



Thanks to Thompson Center Arms, this "logic" could be expanded to include ALL rifle cartridges (since pretty much any rifle cartridge will penetrate armor).

I think it is more realistic to believe that this is backlash instead of a well thought out conspiracy. From their perspective, they screwed up on the SIG brace and the SBR-loophole it created. Now they're trying to make up for it and reclaim even more ground.

[BlasterBob]

This reminds me of buying .22 ammo at some retail store and the counter clerk would ask if the .22's are intended for rifle or pistol.
if the buyer appeared to be under age and he/she responded that that ammo was for a handgun, the clerk would not make the sale.
Who knows but this may SOMEDAY happen with 5.56 and .223.
Yeah, who in their right mind would declare it is for a handgun.

[wctriumph]

Here is the email address for making comments about the proposed ban:

APAComments@atf.gov

[SamuraiCO]

The "Spirit of the Second Amendment" continues to be abridged. M855 seems to be sold out everywhere.

[wctriumph]

Its gone baby, gone. I have some posted for trade.

[Dave_L]

Let the fun begin! :(

[cableguy11]

Gander Mountain shows in stock and being able to pick up in store in Thornton. $230/420rnds, I think, if you are looking you can check for yourself.

[def90]

Who was the senator that pressed the ATF on the 5.45x39 ban a few months back? Seems like we need to be contacting and putting pressure on our congressmen as well on this issue, the spirit of the original law and as is clearly written refers to ammunition/cartridges specifically designed for use in handguns.

[EvolvingTactical]

There is now a White House Petition to stop the ban:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj
If everyone signs it and shares the link to the petition we might be able to stop the ban.

[wctriumph]

Signed and forwarded to friends and family.

[Aloha_Shooter]

There is now a White House Petition to stop the ban:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj
If everyone signs it and shares the link to the petition we might be able to stop the ban.
Hahahaha, thanks, I needed a good laugh.

[Big E3]

Is that a petition or a dissident list? Will I get a visit from ATF now to determine if I'm "properly" storing any guns and ammo I may or may not have? Somehow giving the white house a list of names that are pro gun just seems wrong.

[DEAGLER]

$300 for 420 rounds on armslist if anyone is interested.

[mtnrider]

$300 for 420 rounds on armslist if anyone is interested.

That's a steal! I just saw 70 rounds listed for $300

[02ducky]

Some in the trading post, seems the panic is in full swing. Whooray!!

[hurley842002]

Some in the trading post, seems the panic is in full swing. Whooray!!
Yup!

[00tec]

Is that a petition or a dissident list? Will I get a visit from ATF now to determine if I'm "properly" storing any guns and ammo I may or may not have? Somehow giving the white house a list of names that are pro gun just seems wrong.
You just posted this on a gun forum where you have 466 posts... Pretty sure they know you exist.



I picked up 270 rds from wally world Saturday for $90. Wont pay panic prices for it.

[Big E3]

You just posted this on a gun forum where you have 466 posts... Pretty sure they know you exist.

Yes, but to post here I didn't have to enter my full name and email address and send it directly to the white house. I'm sure they can find me but I don't want to make it too easy for them to make a hit list.

[Irving]

Yes, but to post here I didn't have to enter my full name and email address and send it directly to the white house. I'm sure they can find me but I don't want to make it too easy for them to make a hit list.

Plus, with your avatar, they'd probably just go after your dog, which would be just as bad.

[EvolvingTactical]

If they wanted your info it wouldn't be terribly hard for them to obtain. So I don't think having to enter basic info for a petition is that big of a deal.

[Dave_L]

Just imagine if they had a form with my name, date of birth, address and firearm purchase on it. Glad that doesn't exist.

[Samurai]

Gander Mountain shows in stock and being able to pick up in store in Thornton. $230/420rnds, I think, if you are looking you can check for yourself.

Thanks for the tip. Just bought some and used a 10% off coupon!!

[Big E3]

I don't have a dog, my avatar is a picture of Eddie.

[cableguy11]

Thanks for the tip. Just bought some and used a 10% off coupon!!

My bad, I forgot about the 10% off. Free shipping too, at least yesterday was.

[Samurai]

My bad, I forgot about the 10% off. Free shipping too, at least yesterday was.

Yeah I almost did the free shipping but then decided to go pick up in store. Last time I ordered ammo from them it was all broke open. Granted this comes in a can...not paper boxes

[00tec]

Yes, but to post here I didn't have to enter my full name and email address and send it directly to the white house. I'm sure they can find me but I don't want to make it too easy for them to make a hit list.
You running a VPN?

All they need is your IP address. Your ISP already has your name (or someone in your home), address, phone number (or a few numbers), likely your email, social security number, and credit card info.

[wctriumph]

Well, I had to register for the draft when I was 18, I have worked for a manufacturing subcontractor that required a security clearance, twice. I have sent emails, made phone calls and written letters to my congressional rep's and to the white house, paid taxes to state and federal government, signed multiple petitions to the government, joined the NRA, GOA NAGR, RMGO, passed numerous firearms purchase background checks, flown to the UK many times, flown all over the US, been called up for jury duty many times in state and federal courts, acquired a CCW in CO and FL, I am serving on the Larimer County District Attorney's community relations commission and posted a lot of times here. I am not paranoid about the government having my information, they have had it for almost all of my life. They are probably bored with me by now.




TEA baby, TEA!


III

[cableguy11]

You running a VPN?

All they need is your IP address. Your ISP already has your name (or someone in your home), address, phone number (or a few numbers), likely your email, social security number, and credit card info.

Even VPN may not be secure WebRTC:

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/forum/discussion/8204/how-to-stop-webrtc-local-ip-address-leaks-on-google-chrome-and-mozilla-firefox-while-using-private-i#latest

[HoneyBadger]

There is now a White House Petition to stop the ban:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj
If everyone signs it and shares the link to the petition we might be able to stop the ban.
Why do I feel like this is the authoritarian power providing the false perception of caring about what the people actually want??


Signed it anyway.

[HoneyBadger]

Yes, but to post here I didn't have to enter my full name and email address and send it directly to the white house. I'm sure they can find me but I don't want to make it too easy for them to make a hit list.
You used your real name and email address? [LOL]

Check this out: You get to create unlimited "fake" email addresses that forward on to your actual address. You can shut down any of the "fake" accounts at any time. https://www.abine.com/index.html

Also, with your IP address, they probably already know who you are and where you are. unless you're using VPNs, virtual machines, etc.

EDIT: Looks like 00tec beat me to it on the IP address point.

[mahkcod]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaIIChRMBw

CONTACT THE BATF:

ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov

Fax: (202) 648-9741.

Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.

***I had to remove the petition link because that's all people were doing is signing the petition which doesn't really help us in this fight***

SAMPLE LETTER:

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to voice my strong opposition to the proposed change to current law that would make it illegal to manufacture, import or sell on the open market M855 / SS109 ammunition.

The claimed purpose of this change is to “protect the lives and safety of law enforcement officers from the threat posed by ammunition capable of penetrating a protective vest when fired from a handgun”.

As the Technical Branch well knows, all rifle ammunition of a common caliber such as .223 / 5.56 is capable of penetrating threat level IIA and IIIA body armor regardless of the firearm that is used to fire it. M855 / SS109 is no more of a threat to law enforcement than M193 or Horandy VMAX loads are.

It’s also worth noting that rifle caliber pistols are rarely used in violent crime, their usage is a statistical zero for all practical purposes, which further begs the question as to why this proposed rule change is being considered.

Banning the availability of affordable surplus ammunition under the false pretense that it’s in the name of officer safety is a clear violation of our 2nd Amendment rights.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

FULL NAME
CITY / STATE

[Cthulhu]

Thank you mahkcod (https://www.ar-15.co/members/4606-mahkcod). Email sent.

[Cthulhu]

You used your real name and email address? [LOL]

Check this out: You get to create unlimited "fake" email addresses that forward on to your actual address. You can shut down any of the "fake" accounts at any time. https://www.abine.com/index.html

Also, with your IP address, they probably already know who you are and where you are. unless you're using VPNs, virtual machines, etc.

EDIT: Looks like 00tec beat me to it on the IP address point.

If you want to obfuscate your IP try using TOR.

[Big E3]

This is why I like it hear on this site. No matter what the subject, in short order the topic will move to a post dissection with just a smattering of the original topic thrown in.[Sarcasm2]

[Dave_L]

They have so many ways to track and categorize us that a name on a petition doesn't mean anything at this point.

[Mtn.man]

Break out the tin foil.

[Cthulhu]

This is why I like it hear on this site. No matter what the subject, in short order the topic will move to a post dissection with just a smattering of the original topic thrown in.[Sarcasm2]

There's really not much to say about the OT anymore. That is, unless you just want to say they're a bunch of turkey fuckers. BATFE = Big Ass Turkey Fuckers...and explosives

[HoneyBadger]

Everyone, please send an email to APAComments@atf.gov. Or send 10 emails. Send emails from each email address you have!

This, and contacting your representatives, is our only way to voice our opposition at this point in the game.

[boomerhc9]

That is, unless you just want to say they're a bunch of turkey fuckers. BATFE = Big Ass Turkey Fuckers...and enemas
FIFY!

[Aloha_Shooter]

Obama only ever said they would read and respond to petitions getting over a threshold number of signatures (25,000?). He never said they'd take any action and in fact he basically thumbed his nose at petitions demanding he come clean on things they've been covering up. petitions.whitehouse.gov is just there as a figleaf so they can pursue the agenda they want while claiming the citizenry asked for it.

[electronman1729]

.223 is now the new .22lr

[electronman1729]

BTW
What type of bullet do the federal 55gr bulk packs at walmart use?

[kidicarus13]

.223 is now the new .22lr
See post #21

[Gman]

BTW
What type of bullet do the federal 55gr bulk packs at walmart use?
Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail

[sniper7]

Signed the petition and emailing elected officials and scumbags as well.

[hurley842002]

See post #21
You had it correct in post #21, M855 is the new 22LR, not .223, let's not make this "panic" any worse than it already is.

[brutal]

I was at Gander Mountain tonight picming up an internet order of .22LR.

They had more M855 than you can shake a stick at. Of course, it is all at their "normal" price of [panic]

[bryjcom]

Well, I've refrained from posting in this because I was so pissed about it. First it was the 7n6 and nobody gave a shit because it didn't affect their Ar15s accept us who shoot it. Now they are screwing with the AR15s and everybody is in an uproar.

This has gone too far.....

Emails have been sent and phone calls will be made to Senators, Reps and the ATF scumbags. I suggest you all do the same.





Remember when they were going to start scraping the spend military brass instead of selling it on the market and the internet went freaking nuts? We all lit up the phones of a few select legislators that sit on a certain committee and it was reversed in less than a week.

[Bailey Guns]

With all the various bans that've happened in recent memory I've become a prepper. Not a TEOTWAWKI type prepper, but a shooting-sports prepper. My supply of M855/SS109 will last me...a while. I don't trust the gov't with pretty much anything related to gun ownership.

[DOC]

Maybe making better armor should be their goals? It seems like a false sense of security to depend on armor that is easily defeated by commonly used ammo. Maybe they don't have stock in armor companies just ammo makers but it doesn't seem like a good use of tax money to try and ban ammo.

[bryjcom]

Just called my rep and Senator Gardner.

Gardners office says I was the first one to call about it. That makes me very disappointed.


We all need to light up his phones.
202-224-5941

[hurley842002]

Just called my rep and Senator Gardner.

Gardners office says I was the first one to call about it. That makes me very disappointed.


We all need to light up his phones.
202-224-5941

Umm is it possible that since it's only 9 am, and it was a three day weekend, that maybe you just beat people to the punch? Just saying....

[bryjcom]

Umm is it possible that since it's only 9 am, and it was a three day weekend, that maybe you just beat people to the punch? Just saying....

Holiday yesterday????

Oh yeah, the holiday for the government workers....

I guess your "theory" makes some sense[Sarcasm2]

[Dave_L]

With all the various bans that've happened in recent memory I've become a prepper. Not a TEOTWAWKI type prepper, but a shooting-sports prepper. My supply of M855/SS109 will last me...a while. I don't trust the gov't with pretty much anything related to gun ownership.

Amen.

[th3w01f]

I put in an order at Brownell's the day the news broke, everything showing in stock, even after I ordered. I received confirmation and a notice that it would ship. Then yesterday I received notice that my order was canceled. Bastards. [fail]

[mutt]

I put in an order at Brownell's the day the news broke, everything showing in stock, even after I ordered. I received confirmation and a notice that it would ship. Then yesterday I received notice that my order was canceled. Bastards. [fail]

That there is some BS. This is why I buy from sgammo.com. They don't pull that crap. My order shipped as agreed even though I put my order in at the height of the frenzy.

[electronman1729]

Just called my rep and Senator Gardner.

Gardners office says I was the first one to call about it. That makes me very disappointed.


We all need to light up his phones.
202-224-5941


funny
i sent a lengthy email to him last night. if i dont hear back in a day or two i will call as well

[crashdown]

Still in stock as of right now:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=ROI556&src=exrbSrch

[kidicarus13]

Still in stock as of right now:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=ROI556&src=exrbSrch
Almost $0.60/rd with shipping ...and headed higher as supplies dry up. Maybe I should sell off some of mine.

[MED]

Good thing I bought what I needed for my SHTF stash when the prices came down..nice to not need anything when the latest run comes.

[Great-Kazoo]

Almost $0.60/rd with shipping ...and headed higher as supplies dry up. Maybe I should sell off some of mine.

Walmart in ft fun has a lot of it as of 11 this a.m. left without buying any.

[ChunkyMonkey]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/bffee4c4ced0710a2d1be56890a3c7ae.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/4ec435bc90707a238c3ad85a1eb74f9f.jpg

There you go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mtn.man]

Bought 1k for 361.00

[brutal]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/bffee4c4ced0710a2d1be56890a3c7ae.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/4ec435bc90707a238c3ad85a1eb74f9f.jpg

There you go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like Gander Mountain I mentioned earlier. Sadly, that $.60/rd out the door was reported by an employee as their normal price.

[brutal]

Bought 1k for 361.00

I snatched another 1K of PPU for $377 shipped. A little more than I paid for the 200rd battle packs of PPU but it's still OK at .38/rd.

Didn't really need it, but what the hell, it's AMMO!

Seller took order and I initially got a "backorder" email a few hours later, but it shipped the next day so it's all good.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/bffee4c4ced0710a2d1be56890a3c7ae.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/4ec435bc90707a238c3ad85a1eb74f9f.jpg

There you go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WTF IS THIS SHIT ? Don of the Asian Mafia This guy has all his fingers [facepalm]

[th3w01f]

Nothing at the Lone Tree Cabelas.

[Singlestack]

Something I have always wanted to know is, what are the real world (not theoretical) advantages of M855 over M193? From what I can tell both will penetrate Level IIA/IIIA, but M855 is more expensive and generally not as accurate. Also, if you have any personal experience with both that would help.

[hurley842002]

Nothing at the Lone Tree Cabelas.
There were 2 boxes left at the Thornton Cabelas, but at 12.99 for 20, I may as well support some of the members here with similar prices.

[Monky]

There were 2 boxes left at the Thornton Cabelas, but at 12.99 for 20, I may as well support some of the members here with similar prices.

Oh do we have that going on again?

Maybe I should start selling my stash at $1/rd..

[68Charger]

Something I have always wanted to know is, what are the real world (not theoretical) advantages of M855 over M193? From what I can tell both will penetrate Level IIA/IIIA, but M855 is more expensive and generally not as accurate. Also, if you have any personal experience with both that would help.

Specs require it to penetrate 10ga 1010 or 1020 steel (like car door, helmet, etc)... No such spec required for m193.

So think of it as better at penetrating basic barriers like windshield, car door, steel entry doors than m193... But not true AP

[hurley842002]

Oh do we have that going on again?

Maybe I should start selling my stash at $1/rd..
Of course we do.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'll go ahead and protest it simply on the basis of it being nonsense but if there's a panic run, I'll be selling what I have when the going rate hits $1/rd ...

[Zundfolge]

Something I have always wanted to know is, what are the real world (not theoretical) advantages of M855 over M193?

Generally its price. Cheap milsurp is cheap.

[Samurai]

I hate having paid $230 at gander(with 10% off) but I had 0 ss109. Figure I don't really have a choice at this point...

[MED]

If you think this is bad, just wait until the EPA ruling comes out on banning the use of lead in ammunition. This will come out in the next two years.

[beast556]

If you think this is bad, just wait until the EPA ruling comes out on banning the use of lead in ammunition. This will come out in the next two years.

+1 They know there is little to no chance of getting an assault weapons ban through so they are going to use every back door way to take our rights away. IMHO a ban of lead in ammo will hurt the most, it will price everyone out of the sport.

[hollohas]

+1 They know there is little to no chance of getting an assault weapons ban through so they are going to use every back door way to take our rights away. IMHO a ban of lead in ammo will hurt the most, it will price everyone out of the sport.
This isn't going to happen anytime soon. The US Court of Appeals ruled in December that the EPA CANNOT regulate lead ammunition.

EDITED TO ADD SOURCE:

http://thehill.com/regulation/227972-epa-prohibited-from-regulating-lead-bullets-court-says

[Mtn.man]

Yeah the lead ban was shot down awhile back.

Sorta like your cell phone # is going public,,, everyday.

[sniper7]

Saw lots of this stuff today all for under .50 a round. I'm really not worried

[vossman]

Are you able to buy just the green tip bullets now? I have not seen too many online.

[hollohas]

Are you able to buy just the green tip bullets now? I have not seen too many online.

Purchased a couple k from Wideners last week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[vossman]

I didnt see them on Wideners site. Do you have a link maybe.

[Hotchef181818]

Purchased a couple k from Wideners last week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LAST WEEK, that's the key. I doubt they have any left since this was announced Friday afternoon.

[brutal]

Yea, all the 62gr is OOS at Wideners.

I should have bought some when I saw the e-mail last weekend.

[hollohas]

Yeah, I checked my order and it was actually Sunday, not really last week. Guess I got it in just in time. I've always purchased pulled green tip bullets in the past and these Wideners ones are virgin...I need to figure out a way to quickly paint the tips so I can visually separate them from the 55g FMJ.

[Guylee]

The principle upsets me more than the actual action. I don't think I've ever actually bought green tip. (BOUGHT being the key word here...}

[Hound]

I got some on Sunday around 1 PM. I guess I got in before the lock.


Yeah, I checked my order and it was actually Sunday, not really last week. Guess I got it in just in time. I've always purchased pulled green tip bullets in the past and these Wideners ones are virgin...I need to figure out a way to quickly paint the tips so I can visually separate them from the 55g FMJ.

[Jamnanc]

It was already gone from widener a at 3pm on Saturday. I looked out of curiosity.

[Firehaus]

How does this clause not apply?

Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322 The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --" as armor piercing. then ammended "NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION: 5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip. U.S. .30-06 M2 AP, Identified by a black coating on the projectile tip

[Hound]

Then it came back, maybe they are letting it out slowly?
56619


It was already gone from widener a at 3pm on Saturday. I looked out of curiosity.

[hatidua]

Then it came back, maybe they are letting it out slowly?
56619

I think Wideners (as much as I may have liked them in the past...) is playing games with the M855 event. The CTD list may need an addition...

[Big E3]

I think this proposed ban on M855 gives new meaning to "Presidents Day Sale".

[Ridge]

How does this clause not apply?

Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322 The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --" as armor piercing. then ammended "NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION: 5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip. U.S. .30-06 M2 AP, Identified by a black coating on the projectile tip

The ATF argues that, with the proliferation of AR style pistols, it's now a pistol round, which is illegal to sell armor piercing variants of.

I wrote them a letter and said that shooting it from a pistol constitutes a redesign of it's intended purpose, and that it would still be fine to shoot out of a rifle. Use their Sig brace ruling against them.

[wctriumph]

I have emailed the BATFE and left my comments and called Gardner and Bennett and asked them to use whatever influence that they may have to stop the ban on a popular plinking and target ammo that millions of enthusiasts use every day in the most popular rifle in the country. Politely I might add.

[Firehaus]

Technically it's not even classified as armor piercing like m955, right?


Sent from my iPhone

[Ridge]

Technically it's not even classified as armor piercing like m955, right?


Sent from my iPhone

They're looking to reclassify it as such, based on the % of the bullet is jacket to steel core, like they did with 7n6.

[crays]

Technically it's not even classified as armor piercing like m955, right?

The following is from the April 1994 version of the Small Caliber ammunition tech manual. If it has been revised to no longer be relevant, then I apologize, and hope someone can post up more current info.

From TM 43-0001-27, Chapter 10, pages 19 (M855 - Green Tip) and 25 (M995 Black Tip)

CARTRIDGE, 5.56MM, BALL, M855
"Use: ...The Cartridge is intended for use against personnel and unarmored targets.
Description: BALL Cartridge. ...identified by a green tip. "
56629

CARTRIDGE, 5.56MM, ARMOR PIERCING (AP), M995
"Description: Armor Piercing Cartridge. ...identified by black bullet tip identification paint.
Purpose: This cartridge provides improved penetration performance against various targets as compared to standard ball ammunition."
56627

[ruthabagah]

BTW: Cabelas in Thorton had 1200 rdns of PMC green tips at 11.45 am. Only 600 left at noon because I didn't have enough cash. [Coffee]

[EvolvingTactical]

Got 100 rounds of PMC X-TAC LAP from Cabelas the other day cost $55 after tax. Not bad, not good, but its something.

[wctriumph]

Check the Buyer Intel, MidwayUSA and looks like free shipping.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/546504/carl-gustaf-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-steel-core-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-1000?cm_mmc=pe_weekly-_-hotbuy-_-targeted_gustaf556_20150219_1-_-Main_Image

[ruthabagah]

Check the Buyer Intel, MidwayUSA and looks like free shipping.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/546504/carl-gustaf-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-steel-core-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-1000?cm_mmc=pe_weekly-_-hotbuy-_-targeted_gustaf556_20150219_1-_-Main_Image

Just got a new email today and it looks like the price went up to 499.99.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/546504/carl-gustaf-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-steel-core-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-1000?cm_mmc=pe_weekly-_-hotbuy-_-targeted_gustaf556_20150219_1-_-Main_Image

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'm just waiting for the price to go up a bit more then I'll let go of some of my stock ... [Coffee]

[Delfuego]

You guys are your own worst enemy [panic]

[bryjcom]

I think Wideners (as much as I may have liked them in the past...) is playing games with the M855 event. The CTD list may need an addition...

Wideners is good people. I think they update their website frequently but sometimes things will sell out and then they have to update again. Its probably better than over selling the quantity that you have on hand.....

They also stated that they could have sold all there IMI m855 to one buyer but they decided to pass and limit it to one case per person.

[Zundfolge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyzhv894N0

In particular from about 1:02 to 2:07 where he illustrates the difference between regular ball and SS109/M855.

[def90]

Wideners is good people. I think they update their website frequently but sometimes things will sell out and then they have to update again. Its probably better than over selling the quantity that you have on hand.....

They also stated that they could have sold all there IMI m855 to one buyer but they decided to pass and limit it to one case per person.
Sell it all to one person or ration it out.. They probably make more money selling it one case at a time and have the side benefiy of looking like heroes. Wideners has been sending me emails almost daily about all the 193 the have, once this all cake out the 193 disappeared as well.

[Gman]

In particular from about 1:02 to 2:07 where he illustrates the difference between regular ball and SS109/M855.
OMG, that is hilarious.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

So, is it to early to try and trade my can of m855 for something cool? My barrel is 1/9 anyways :p

[hurley842002]

So, is it to early to try and trade my can of m855 for something cool? My barrel is 1/9 anyways [emoji14]
1/9 is fine for 62 grain, find a different excuse lol.

[Cthulhu]

So if the ban goes into effect, will the sale of M855 be legal between private parties? Sorry if this has been answered already.

[def90]

So if the ban goes into effect, will the sale of M855 be legal between private parties? Sorry if this has been answered already.
Yes.. All ammo on market still legal to sell, just no new sales.

[Cthulhu]

Yes.. All ammo on market still legal to sell, just no new sales.

Ah, OK so it would apply to retailers and manufactures only then.

[SideShow Bob]

So if the ban goes into effect, will the sale of M855 be legal between private parties? Sorry if this has been answered already.

DADT or CIPCIP
Or you could write to the ATF and ask for clarification...........

[Great-Kazoo]

DADT or CIPCIP
Or you could write to the ATF and ask for clarification...........

[Beer]Thank You We'll still see someone post their reply from ATF, with out a doubt.

[brutal]

I wrote them and asked if it was legal for the guys on COAR15 to sell M855 at $1/rd.

Still waiting for an answer.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

1/9 is fine for 62 grain, find a different excuse lol.
I was just thinking maybe someone would part with some of their old run of the mill available everywhere reloading equipment for those fancy soon to be banned armour peersin rounds....but yeah my carbine seems to shoot just about anything with reasonable accuracy (haven't tried any of those heavier 75gr rounds yet though)


anyone done a penetration comparison of steel (bimetal or whatever) jacketed ammo vs green tip? We should probably ban that too.....that and maybe all them "cop killer" rifle rounds that go through kevlar and elk hide.

[Joe_K]

Opposed to the ban on principle, not panic buying anything...yet. Although, if I were going to stock up on any 5.56 ammo and could find it in stock somewhere I'd go with MK-318 SOST stuff.

[Gman]

Got an email this morning from NatchezSS.com that they had more green tip for $.49/round.

[crays]

Natchez Link (http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM855B12&src=tpSlrHm)

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM855B12&src=tpSlrHm

[SideShow Bob]

anyone done a penetration comparison of steel (bimetal or whatever) jacketed ammo vs green .

Beware of what you are buying, I can see some unscrupulous gun show dealer taking a bunch of bi-metal FMJ, dipping them into green paint, and selling them as m855/ss109 due to them being attracted to magnets.......... Hey, wait, disregard this post, I need to go check and see what is in my stash away cans.............[Tooth]

[Mtn.man]

Have green paint made a dipper.

[Irving]

What is the desirable trait of this ammo, for someone who's never shot it before? Is it the price?

[SideShow Bob]

What is the desirable trait of this ammo, for someone who's never shot it before? Is it the price?

The hard steel core, and it's performance for light barrier penetration. The accuracy is typical Mil. Spec. And of course the green paint on the tips is so tacticool.
If you believed some of the Tactitards, you could take out a tank with this ammo.........[facepalm]

[ruthabagah]

What is the desirable trait of this ammo, for someone who's never shot it before? Is it the price?

My experience: Seems to be giving better grouping for precision shooting at 100 yard or more with a 16' barrel. Saw no difference with a 20' barrel.

[crays]

What is the desirable trait of this ammo, for someone who's never shot it before? Is it the price?

BECAUSE IT'S BEING BANNED!!!!! You Silly Goose... [Flower][panic][Flower]

[Zundfolge]

What is the desirable trait of this ammo, for someone who's never shot it before? Is it the price?

The biggest problem with the ban is that it will take a shit ton of ammo supply out of the market, thus driving the price of ALL 5.56mm/.223 up. Simple "supply/demand" economics. Also there's the "slippery slope" argument ... if they can arbitrarily ban this ammo because it's "capable of penetrating body armor" then they can probably ban ALL rifle ammo under the same rubric.

[Dave_L]

I blame the pistol brace guys. :D

[thvigil11]

Looks like prices are in between .50 and .60 per round online. (Jason's guns, Armlist, Gunbroker) If it keeps climbing I might have to sell off some of the stock and use the money to buy some decent bullets to load in my thousands of round of brass. Something with better performance and penetration than m855. (like some Barnes TSX or Sierra match)

[thvigil11]

I blame the pistol brace guys. :D It's not so much the pistol brace guys, but its the dumbass, let's write a letter to the ATF to ask permission or the even stupider, you can't do that and I'll prove it by asking the ATF guys.

[Zundfolge]

I blame the pistol brace guys. :D

As I said earlier, I almost wonder if F-Troop didn't engineer this mess from the start by signing off on the SIG Brace to begin with (thus causing an explosion in sales in AR pistols ... now they can claim there are enough out there that they're "in common use").

[brutal]

Take that Dicks add for $49.98 for the 150rd green box found in who knows which M855 thread here, perhaps this one, go over to Gander Mountain and buy as many as you want for $.33/rd plus tax.

As I recall, the dicks ad is good through 2-21.

[Hotchef181818]

Take that Dicks add for $49.98 for the 150rd green box found in who knows which M855 thread here, perhaps this one, go over to Gander Mountain and buy as many as you want for $.33/rd plus tax.

As I recall, the dicks ad is good through 2-21.

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/146769-Coupon-for-xm855-at-33-rd

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Beware of what you are buying, I can see some unscrupulous gun show dealer taking a bunch of bi-metal FMJ, dipping them into green paint, and selling them as m855/ss109 due to them being attracted to magnets.......... Hey, wait, disregard this post, I need to go check and see what is in my stash away cans.............[Tooth]

LOL

idk if the time spent pulling all those tula/wolf bullets and reloading them in lc brass would equate into a profit....seems like a lot of work.

[Irving]

I understand the issue with the ban; I was just intrigued by the comments of those who bought some because they had zero on hand. If I used that logic, I'd go broke in record time.

[Dave_L]

LOL

idk if the time spent pulling all those tula/wolf bullets and reloading them in lc brass would equate into a profit....seems like a lot of work.

Just leave it in the steel. I bet some noobs would still buy it because "OMG GREEN TIP!". :D

[Great-Kazoo]

Just leave it in the steel. I bet some noobs would still buy it because "OMG GREEN TIP!". :D

BANNED FROM IMPORT RUSSIAN GREEN TIP. Hit all the bases when selling a desirable product.

[brutal]

So green tip is the new black tip?

[Great-Kazoo]

It's not so much the pistol brace guys, but its the dumbass, let's write a letter to the ATF to ask permission or the even stupider, you can't do that and I'll prove it by asking the ATF guys.

AND THIS post should put a close to this discussion. Nailed it over the left field fence.

[wctriumph]

It works great in my Bushy, just as accurate as the 55 gr FMJ (but that is probably me more than anything), hits what I aim at (if I can see it I can hit it), the cost was for a while below the FMJ and I was able to trade excess pistol ammo for a bunch of the M855. The downside is that because of the steel penetrator some private ranges won't let you shoot it because it will damage the range targets. I have the same issue with my mil-surp .30-06: shoots through everything I shoot at. But so does my 7.62X39 at most ranges. What are you going to do.

I like it. But if someone has some M193 and will trade me two for my one, great. If not, no worries, I'll keep shooting it where I can.

[Great-Kazoo]

what if I never post, and only come to this forum to sell my crap? not actually participate. is it then ok for me to make sure I panic price everything to fuck over the membership here? im just curious.


and no I dont care what price people buy or sell their stuff for. I plan way ahead and dont fall victim to panic pricing. I just hate douchebags.

If there's a market cheerfully accept their money. I'll wait till 2nd wave of panic buying. THEN put what i have for sale at some low ball price, oh the cries of unfair pricing. Oh My.

But enough about Panic Buying ammo. Lets talk about the real issue of Germany's short term bail out (AGAIN) of Greece. You don't continue patching holes in a sinking ship.

[hurley842002]

I know there are folks here that are bitter towards Jensens (at least one person anyway), but they have lots of the 120 round ammo cans of 855, $64 and change.

[SideShow Bob]

LOL

idk if the time spent pulling all those tula/wolf bullets and reloading them in lc brass would equate into a profit....seems like a lot of work.

Not if you had a few K's in bulk bullets to load up..............[Coffee]

[Great-Kazoo]

Not if you had a few K's in bulk bullets to load up..............[Coffee]

and some spare time while it's snowing.

[thvigil11]

AND THIS post should put a close to this discussion. Nailed it over the left field fence.

Thanks for the support.


what if I never post, and only come to this forum to sell my crap? not actually participate. is it then ok for me to make sure I panic price everything to fuck over the membership here? im just curious.
and no I dont care what price people buy or sell their stuff for. I plan way ahead and dont fall victim to panic pricing. I just hate douchebags.

Maybe I'm having a brain fart here, but I'm not following the progression of these quotes???

[hatidua]

I wonder how many M193 tips could be painted with a single $5 can of green Krylon.....oh, how the mind wanders at such times [Muaha]

[zimagold]

I wonder how many M193 tips could be painted with a single $5 can of green Krylon.....oh, how the mind wanders at such times [Muaha]

Magnet? ...but that would take common sense, and that's not normally something I associate with a panic.

[00tec]

Magnet? ...but that would take common sense, and that's not normally something I associate with a panic.
I'm going home to take some nail polish to some tula 7.63x39... Post it on armslist for fiddy dolla a box.

Market it as M762

[thvigil11]

I'm gonna go with just painting flames on the casings, for a true hot rod look. Makes the bullet go faster. I'll call it M855 +P's!!!

[Great-Kazoo]

I wonder how many M193 tips could be painted with a single $5 can of green Krylon.....oh, how the mind wanders at such times [Muaha]

Nail polish works better, no tell tale over spray. Hypothetically of course.

[Skully]

Nail polish works better, no tell tale over spray. Hypothetically of course.

Is this your Green nail polish or the wife's?


Not judging if it is yours. [Coffee]

[BPTactical]

Is this your Green nail polish or the wife's?


Not judging if it is yours. [Coffee]

Says the guy with the "What would Brian Boitano do" question emblazoned on his posts.........





Jus sayin.......

[tmckay2]

i never understood the anti panic pricing crowd. sure, i plan ahead and thus don't need to buy ammo at crazy stupid prices, but everything in this country has a going rate due to supply and demand (or at least a perceived supply and demand). everything goes up in price at some point. everyone is supposed to sell it at lower prices? why? whats the duration of time that goes by that makes it ok to sell higher? scarcity of a good shouldn't allow anyone to raise prices? ever?

now certainly places like od green supply (RIP) charging a dollar a round for 7n6 can suck it, and i will never shop there. but its certainly their right to sell it at whatever they deem to be the market price. if they don't sell it at that price, they go out of business, as they did. same for people here. they can ask $3 a round if they want, who cares? if someone will buy it, might as well get the highest price possible. if they won't, then the seller can either lower their price or simply not sell it.

i bought 223 years back for 20 cents a round, can i now not sell it at a higher price without being a panic seller or price gouger?

[hatidua]

I've learned, albeit apparently belatedly, that the correct grammatical term is "neckbearding".

[Great-Kazoo]

Is this your Green nail polish or the wife's?


Not judging if it is yours. [Coffee]






I thought it was a complimentary Thank You with my last purchase from you. Maybe i read too much in to your screen name SKULLy.

[Great-Kazoo]

i never understood the anti panic pricing crowd. sure, i plan ahead and thus don't need to buy ammo at crazy stupid prices, but everything in this country has a going rate due to supply and demand (or at least a perceived supply and demand). everything goes up in price at some point. everyone is supposed to sell it at lower prices? why? whats the duration of time that goes by that makes it ok to sell higher? scarcity of a good shouldn't allow anyone to raise prices? ever?

now certainly places like od green supply (RIP) charging a dollar a round for 7n6 can suck it, and i will never shop there. but its certainly their right to sell it at whatever they deem to be the market price. if they don't sell it at that price, they go out of business, as they did. same for people here. they can ask $3 a round if they want, who cares? if someone will buy it, might as well get the highest price possible. if they won't, then the seller can either lower their price or simply not sell it.

i bought 223 years back for 20 cents a round, can i now not sell it at a higher price without being a panic seller or price gouger?

ABSOLUTELY. BUT don't bitch about price gouging. THEN list AR Bolts (ONLY) for $85. [Sarcasm2]

[Skully]

Says the guy with the "What would Brian Boitano do" question emblazoned on his posts.........


Jus sayin.......

Never seen South Park movie?




I thought it was a complimentary Thank You with my last purchase from you. Maybe i read too much in to your screen name SKULLy.

No I gave that back to you because you sent me the wrong color. [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

This is so refreshing. It's been a while since we've had a "it's price gouging/no, it's supply and demand" argument. They always go so well.

[Great-Kazoo]

Never seen South Park movie?





No I gave that back to you because you sent me the wrong color. [Coffee]

You prefer the Manly Pink or Butch red ?

[th3w01f]

Ok, I'm going to jump into this for no other reason than Jim Beam Devils Cut. [dig]

I've done quite a bit of research into plates (no real or even pretend research on my part beyond Google) and much of it started from Mick Boy's work gear thread. https://www.ar-15.co/threads/110033-Mick-Boy-s-work-gear-(what-and-why)

From what I've read, M855 is the best 5.56 for defeating ceramic based armor plates and XM193 is the best for AR500 based plates. I know this is somewhat simplistic and I'd own AMI plates if they made XL but there seems to be a reason for m855.

Either way, please flame on and help me refine my understanding of 5.56 -vs- body armor.

[mtnrider]

i never understood the anti panic pricing crowd. sure, i plan ahead and thus don't need to buy ammo at crazy stupid prices, but everything in this country has a going rate due to supply and demand (or at least a perceived supply and demand). everything goes up in price at some point. everyone is supposed to sell it at lower prices? why? whats the duration of time that goes by that makes it ok to sell higher? scarcity of a good shouldn't allow anyone to raise prices? ever?


The biggest issue I see with the price gouging is I feel like we are eating our own. We are gouging fellow 2A lovers. It's no wonder we can't band together and get anything done when we would cut each others throats. It's not like we are screwing liberals here, we are screwing ourselves.

[Bailey Guns]

The biggest issue I see is why do you care what someone asks for an item when someone else is willing to pay that price? Not trying to start another war...but we've been down this road a hundred times.

[Bailey Guns]

Ok, I'm going to jump into this for no other reason than Jim Beam Devils Cut. [dig]

Elijah Craig 12 Year Small Batch tonight.

[BushMasterBoy]

What? No depleted uranium?

[th3w01f]

What? No depleted uranium?

I'd be too busy laying naked and rubbing it all over myself.

[Great-Kazoo]

What? No depleted uranium?

hazmat fees are a deal killer

[spqrzilla]

AIMsurplus still has some of the Danish M855/SS109 ammo that has shot well for me. $0.45 a round before shipping.

[def90]

I finally got around to reading the ATF memo pertaining to this. It can be seen here:

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_proj ectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purpos es.pdf?utm_source=Request+from+the+NRA+-+BATFE+Ammo+Ban+Alert&utm_campaign=M855BAN02212015&utm_medium=email

They lay out all of their reasons for pulling the exemption, one of which is that there are now "handguns" that are made to fire this cartridge. They also explain that officer safety trumps sporting purposes where a small easily concealable handgun which officers most commonly face on the streets would be able to fire an armor piercing round.. How could an AR style handgun ever be considered "small and easily concealable"? Once again they are also using the argument of the round being constructed of certain materials rather than actual performance.

"From the perspective of law enforcement, however, the most relevant intent is that of acriminal who seeks to use ammunition capable of penetrating body armor when fired from ahandgun. If ammunition containing the metal content enumerated in section 921(a)(17)(B)(i)can be used in a handgun—the type of firearm most frequently used by criminals whom policeofficers encounter on the streets—then, from the law enforcement perspective, themanufacturer’s intent that the ammunition be used for hunting or target shooting (in rifles orhandguns) becomes irrelevant. The mere availability of handguns capable of using theammunition made of the enumerated metals creates the potential for diversion to criminals whocould use it in easily concealed firearms to defeat the protective vests worn by police officers –the exact officer safety concern targeted by LEOPA"

[Irving]

Just the lower and upper of an AR, which are not able to be changed as far as size is concerned, are larger than any "handgun" ever made.

[brutal]

Hey BATFE!

http://i.imgur.com/4fXhy7K.jpg

[hatidua]

Gunsport in Boulder still had two 420rd cans of Federal XM855 as of this afternoon, I think it was $225/can.

[Zundfolge]

The mere availability of handguns capable of using th eammunition made of the enumerated metals creates the potential for diversion to criminals whocould use it in easily concealed firearms to defeat the protective vests worn by police officers –the exact officer safety concern targeted by LEOPA

Called it.

I remember when the ATF came out with the letter allowing the SIG Brace and we all scratched our heads as to why they would do something so pro gun and anti-ATF (who exists to limit the 2A and empower the centralized oligarchy).

They were just concerned that there weren't enough AR15 pistols out there so they had to encourage gun owners to buy them in droves.

[brutal]

Gunsport in Boulder still had two 420rd cans of Federal XM855 as of this afternoon, I think it was $225/can.

There's some on Armslist for $850/1000. [hahhah-no]

[coop68]

NSSF has a take action fill in your info to send emails to ATF and your local congress! You might beable to resend more than once! Makes it easy for some.

http://www.nssfblog.com/oppose-atf-556-m855-ball-ammunition-ban/

[th3w01f]

Have to give a big thumbs up to Ammunitiondeopt. They're the only company I ordered from that followed through on their part of the deal, no price increase, no backorder and no cancelation. I'll be ordering from them again.

Now I have way to much m855. :)