Cops shot at Dallas BLM protest

[DireWolf]

The same reason why every employee doesn't walk out of every job when a very small minority of the customers complain.

It may be a relatively small minority, but an extremely vocal one that appears to have significant areas of concentration, and significant representation in leadership....let them (the wrongheaded leadership) deal with it by themselves.....

Also, I can say that from my perspective, if a customer complains (and it's not a legitimate complaint - the customer is NOT always right) and management has your back, it's a totally different story than if management doubles down on the stupidity, and I have seen entire departments within companies up and quit at the same time under those circumstances (with significant financial and operational impact to the organization)....

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[Irving]

I'm not one of those 'customer is always right' guys.

You may have seen entire departments quit, but that is not the norm and most people are not financial equipped to do so.

[DireWolf]

I'm not one of those 'customer is always right' guys.

You may have seen entire departments quit, but that is not the norm and most people are not financial equipped to do so.

I agree it's extremely rare....

But I think if you're in a job that requires you to routinely risk your life, and your efforts are totally unappreciated, and even if you do everything right the PTB (including your own managment) may try to nail you to the wall, even if you have a strong calling to protect others, at what point do you just say enough is enough?

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[Wulf202]

most people are not financial equipped to do so.That and the dedication of those who willingly put on the uniform

[Irving]

I agree it's extremely rare....

But I think if you're in a job that requires you to routinely risk your life, and your efforts are totally unappreciated, and even if you do everything right the PTB (including your own managment) may try to nail you to the wall, even if you have a strong calling to protect others, at what point do you just say enough is enough?



I risk my life at my job and sometimes don't get paid for doing so. It's not to the point where it is no longer worth it though. See below.


That and the dedication of those who willingly put on the uniform

This is the biggest factor I think.

[hurley842002]

I'm not one of those 'customer is always right' guys.

You may have seen entire departments quit, but that is not the norm and most people are not financial equipped to do so.

Yup, I've got a wife and two kids that depend on me, I'm not in a position to cut off our primary source of income everytime my feelers get hurt (which isn't often). I've seen plenty of people say eff it and turn in their badge and uniforms, not sure what was running through their heads, either they genuinely couldn't handle the job, or they just won't be happy anywhere.

[DireWolf]

That and the dedication of those who willingly put on the uniform
The thing is, I don't think it has to be all or nothing, but a walk-out can provide the (public) leverage to force some balance back into the equation, and force the resignation/termination of members of the leadership group who have anything but the wellbeing of their officers in mind (e.g. the fucking bureaucrats)....

Don't get me wrong, I know there are many (the majority) extremely dedicated LE who choose to serve and protect, and they provide an invaluable service to their communities and all of us, and we should all be appreciative and respectful of the sacrifices they make.....But there seems to be (as an outside observer) rot at the core, and it does those dedicated officers an extreme injustice to do what they do and still wear a (figurative and literal) target on thier backs, with little/no appreciation from the media/public, and in some cases - it would appear - no appreciation from the bureaucrats in charge....

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[Irving]

Yup, I've got a wife and two kids that depend on me, I'm not in a position to cut off our primary source of income everytime my feelers get hurt (which isn't often). I've seen plenty of people say eff it and turn in their badge and uniforms, not sure what was running through their heads, either they genuinely couldn't handle the job, or they just won't be happy anywhere.

Just because you leave somewhere, doesn't mean you won't be happy anywhere though. Most people have a hard time even leaving a job for a better opportunity. I know I did.

[hurley842002]

Just because you leave somewhere, doesn't mean you won't be happy anywhere though. Most people have a hard time even leaving a job for a better opportunity. I know I did.

I meant leaving in the context of bad terms and burnt bridges, just walking out on the job. I was with my last agency for nearly ten years before I decided to leave for what I believe is a better one, so I know all about that, it was tough, scary even.

[Fmedges]

One of the main reasons I left the service was because at a point I felt that the "people in charge" put the safety of foreigners ahead of the safety of myself and my everyone in our service through ridiculous ROE. I wasn't looking to lose my life or be jailed forever for trying to do what was right in the moment for the safety of myself or my comrades. I can see the point of view of officers that decide to pursue a career in something else.

[HoneyBadger]

One of the main reasons I left the service was because at a point I felt that the "people in charge" put the safety of foreigners ahead of the safety of myself and my everyone in our service through ridiculous ROE. I wasn't looking to lose my life or be jailed forever for trying to do what was right in the moment for the safety of myself or my comrades. I can see the point of view of officers that decide to pursue a career in something else.
You're certainly not alone in that... The Air Force is facing a major manning crisis because people are bailing out faster than they can get new recruits trained up. Several career fields are going to start offering hefty retention bonuses starting next year, even for officers, which is far less common. Toxic culture and poor leadership rots an organization at the core and destroys it from within.

[Wulf202]

From every article, survey or chatting with leo the rot at the core issue is everywhere they allow politics to creep into the system.

[Aloha_Shooter]

You're certainly not alone in that... The Air Force is facing a major manning crisis because people are bailing out faster than they can get new recruits trained up. Several career fields are going to start offering hefty retention bonuses starting next year, even for officers, which is far less common. Toxic culture and poor leadership rots an organization at the core and destroys it from within.

Yeah, my nephew is looking at colleges right now and was advised by a swabbie to look at the service academies. I'm about to talk to my sister on this because I think -- contrary to what everyone in my family probably expects -- I'd probably counsel against that. I no longer have the kind of faith in national leadership that I used to and don't want to see my nephew go into harm's way with a CinC who cares more about enemy than our own people.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, my nephew is looking at colleges right now and was advised by a swabbie to look at the service academies. I'm about to talk to my sister on this because I think -- contrary to what everyone in my family probably expects -- I'd probably counsel against that. I no longer have the kind of faith in national leadership that I used to and don't want to see my nephew go into harm's way with a CinC who cares more about enemy than our own people.
I think the service academies can definitely be used to propel an inspired and motivated individual to do awesome things with their life, but they obviously aren't the only way to be successful, nor are they a guarantor of success. I would tell him to work his tail off so he can get as many scholarships as possible. This will only open doors for him.

[OneGuy67]

Related to this, I can't figure out why entire LE depts dont just walk out en-mass, and have a union rep release a statement to the effect of "you want to blame us for everything and focus on all the wrong things, fine....good luck with that, but we're not going back on the job until we actually get useful training and an honest dialog"...or, even just slow-walking it (e.g. we tried to get to the scene in an area where coincidentally they hate us and don't want us around, but got lost/had flat tire/needed gas/etc.....)

Maybe it's just me, but the thought of lifting even a finger to help someone who not only doesn't want it, but shits all over me at every opportunity, is a total non-starter.....

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Well, it happens to be unethical and illegal. There is a term used back east called "blue flu" where the officers are on duty, but don't do anything proactive and answer calls for service with minimal service.

[OneGuy67]

The initial report from DPD and Dallas FBI was that a SKS was used, but the Dallas FBI just put out a LEO bulletin in which they acknowledge the rifle used was a Saiga 74. Not sure how they got the two mixed up, but...it has happened before.

[sroz]

Related to this, I can't figure out why entire LE depts dont just walk out en-mass, and have a union rep release a statement to the effect of "you want to blame us for everything and focus on all the wrong things, fine....good luck with that, but we're not going back on the job until we actually get useful training and an honest dialog"...or, even just slow-walking it (e.g. we tried to get to the scene in an area where coincidentally they hate us and don't want us around, but got lost/had flat tire/needed gas/etc.....)

Maybe it's just me, but the thought of lifting even a finger to help someone who not only doesn't want it, but shits all over me at every opportunity, is a total non-starter.....

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I get what you are saying and have to admit that I sometimes think the same thing. Fortunately for all of us most of these folks don't have it in them to turn their backs on someone in need.