Seeking input on home dilemma: Modify or Move?

[Martinjmpr]

Every year after Christmas the wife and I have long discussions about what we want to do in the next year.

Here's the basic stats: We're both in our mid-50's, kids are grown and out of the house (2 kids, 3 grandkids, all hers from previous marriage.) We live in an older part of Englewood that's still a pretty nice neighborhood. We've been together for 11 years now and married for 8.

House is an older ranch-style, smallish (1100 square feet.) 3 BR and 1 Bath (yes, ONE bath.)

Back in 2008 right after I moved in, we did major renovations to the house. We walled off the old 1 car attached garage and made it our "utility room" (basically like our basement. It is not connected to the rest of the house and you enter it from the back porch.) We put in an oversized, detached 2 car garage that comfortably accommodates our 2 of our 4 SUVs, my two motorcycles and lots of other stuff. We're on a big lot with a long concrete drive that accommodates our other vehicles and our two trailers (travel trailer and utility trailer. Yes, we have a lot of license plates. :D ) We also had new siding put on the house, all new windows, a new furnace, and a new roof. In 2009 we put in a new water heater and in 2012 we completely renovated the kitchen with new cabinets, new appliances and granite counters.

The dilemma is this: At 1100 square feet, the house is feeling too small, especially when we entertain. We have one living room that basically feels like a hallway (it's probably not more than 18' x 22') Having only one bathroom is a real problem, and furthermore our bathroom is very, very small and designed in such a way that the configuration cannot be changed without major renovations.

We LOVE our brand new kitchen, and of course, I LOVE my big garage. But other than that, and the fact that my wife has lived in this house since 1981 (when she was 18 and moved in with her first husband) there's not much to keep us here.

We have been considering a few options.

Option 1 would be a MAJOR renovation. We would either pop the top (not my preference as I like living in a house with no stairs) or (more likely) pop out the rear wall and extend the house rearward. We would enlarge the master bedroom, add a bathroom that is big enough to be ADA compliant, and most likely add another "great room" out the back in between the house and the detached garage to give us living and entertainment space. We haven't talked to a contractor yet but I'm assuming this project would take 3 - 6 months and most likely cost on the order of $100k.

Option 2 would be to simply fix the few little things around the house that need fixing, put it up for sale and buy another house that has the features we need (2000 - 2600 square feet, 3+ bedrooms, 2+ baths, 2+ car garage with RV storage on-property, large enough room for us to entertain 25 - 30 guests, etc.) Property in our neighborhood seems to be going for a pretty penny (the house across the street sold for $340k in June and it was TRASHED when they sold it. It was, however, bigger than ours and had 2 baths. It only had a 1 car garage though.) Our most conservative estimate is that we could sell our current house for around $300 - $325k and we have found quite a few houses that fit our requirements in the $375k - $450k range.

The advantage for Option 1 (besides the obvious one of not moving!) is that we know this house really well (as I said, the wife has been here for 36 years!) and there are no "surprises" for us. The furnace and other appliances are in good shape, there are no issues with leaking or flooding, and we know and like our neighbors (well, most of them...) If we "built out" we could get exactly what we want as far as living space, bathroom, etc. The downside is obviously the hassle of doing all this work, and the possibility that the "livability" will be compromised while construction is ongoing. Also I learned from experience with our garage/window/furnace/siding project that sometimes "managing" contractors is an exhausting job itself!

The advantage for Option 2 would be the ability to move right into another place that suits us. Our credit is actually good enough that we are considering buying first and then not selling until we are fully moved into the new house - our mortgage payments are low enough and we earn enough that we could manage that. The downside is that, potentially, the bottom could drop out of the market at the wrong time making it difficult for us to sell or putting us in a position where we end up selling for way less than we were planning, which gives us a much higher mortgage on the "new" house than we had planned and potentially leaving us "house poor."

So for those of you that have had similar dilemmas, what do you think? At this point we're both leaning heavily towards option 2. We only owe about $50k on our current house and we both have excellent credit. As a plus, I'm a veteran who has never bought a home before so I would qualify for VA financing if we need it.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any input.

[funkymonkey1111]

One thing to factor in is, even if you decided on option 1 today, are you sure you can line up a good contractor to get it done by the end of the summer?

During the boom last year, it was difficult to get anyone to call you back

Seriously--i called a tree service last january. I got a call back 2 weeks ago, like it was nothing. "It says you need an aspen removed...."

[Irving]

How does either option fit in with your ultimate life plan?

[fportmen45]

If you want a divorce, pop the top.

[Dave_L]

How does either option fit in with your ultimate life plan?

This. Remember, a new loan means 30 new years of payments.

[Great-Kazoo]

You sound like you're discussing the same thing we are. Already having a full 2nd story (full bath, and bedroom) going higher isn't on the radar. ADA... already there for some things, extending out back another 1500 + sq ft is doable. BUT realistically an open floor plan is something we'd prefer.
That brings us to other options

1: Become snow birds, upgrading the house for when we're here and traveling dec-feb. Downside to that is we're still stuck with a small shop (under 1k sq ft. Sometghing the spouse and i agree needs to be an easy 40 or 60x building

2: sell this place, relocating out of state.

For us there's some family living here. Our daughter live in (GASP) CA which isn't on radar as new residence. So there's no grandkids down the block or a short drive holding us here.
There is however a solid group of friends we consider extended family. Moving from such a great group of people would be the same as moving away from blood relatives. Not to mention the network i've built up 3+ decades

For you unless the grandkids are down the block, why stay. Can you get something turn key that meets your demands by selling existing home, without going back too deep in debt?

Something you might consider (what my spouse suggest for us) with so little a mortgage remaining. Find what you want in a home, use the equity from 1st to buy second. This allows you to move at your pace, not the new owners. Then sell home 1 paying off the note on it and left over $$ to cover 2nd

[Irving]

How often do you entertain that you'd be willing to spend $100k in order to have parties?

[TFOGGER]

Option 3: Long term wealth building- buy a new place, turn the current house into an income generating rental property. I dunno what the nuts and bolts of this kind of deal might be, but if you can upgrade houses and the rent on your current place will more than cover your current mortgage plus management fees, it seems like a viable alternative.

[fitz19d]

All i got out of it was 4 suvs??? Sell 2-3 and get a truck for the trailors.

Renting it out is attractive esp if you are paid off already but is somewhat of a risk due to shitheads.

Its a pain, but I would shop around for a different property it sounds like. Or consider that as you are getting older you might not be able to use all that "stuff" and should take it as a chance to unpack rat a bit.

I'd say buying now is kinda at the top of the bubble so to speak. Then again your property is probably hugely up in value. I'd say it's a good switch if getting one of those remote properties like listed on this forum a few times. Or while it is a long term cost, at least selling this for 300 after a huge increase isn't hurting as bad buying something at 400 I'd think since I was inclined to think what I read was a lot of the huge price increases are all on the sub 325k single family type homes.

[ray1970]

I have a large home with multiple bathrooms.

When I get to be your age and it's just me and the wife I think I'll be looking for something a bit smaller. You know, something like your place.

[Dlesh123]

Some jurisdictions have a limit as to how much of the lot can be covered by buildings. I would check first with the zoning board and see if what you might want to do is allowed in that neighborhood especially since you have built the oversized 2 car garage.
Use the old standby, two columns, one labeled Pros, the other Cons. Go from there.

[Jamnanc]

I'd sell, rent for 12 months and buy next year. I think interest rates have to climb and it will reduce home values based on the ability to afford less house at 6%. But I may be wrong.

Kazoo, you just need to buy a place farther east with the equity in your house. I'll help around the place when you invite me out to shoot prairie dogs on your forty.

[Skip]

Consider this a vote for Option 2*. I spent my formative years in that footprint house (Aurora, then Denver). There just isn't much you can do with them other than fix them up, remodel, etc... In my family's neighborhood there are additions ("L" configuration), and popped tops. They are still the same house with the same limitations.


* You may want to wait and see what the market will do since you aren't in urgent need for a new house.

[20X11]

Option 2 is only appealing if you can move to an "acreage". Most newer homes come with HOAs that will restrict your collection of toys. You need "country" property, or "in-town" acreage

[Holger Danske]

Move. You get the excitment of something new.

[bczandm]

I'd move and that's coming from a guy who's been in the same house for over 24 years. The remodel will cost more, take longer and not really give you what you want. And then there's the whole "good luck finding the right contractor" issue. It seems that with the requirements you have it's time to move. It's not a bad time to move up and interest rates are pretty good, although they could go down. Take your time and you will find what you want. Home inventories are low right now but there will be lots of listings over the next few months. Just be prepared to move quickly as houses are still selling and selling FAST. Hours will make the difference on getting the house you want...or not.

[Great-Kazoo]

Option 2 is only appealing if you can move to an "acreage". Most newer homes come with HOAs that will restrict your collection of toys. You need "country" property, or "in-town" acreage

Ah yes the infamous HOA. Major point when looking for another place to live, and look in to. With say 5 ac without an HOA , will you be able to shoot, as some places restrict shooting to X or more acres



I'd move and that's coming from a guy who's been in the same house for over 24 years. The remodel will cost more, take longer and not really give you what you want. And then there's the whole "good luck finding the right contractor" issue. It seems that with the requirements you have it's time to move. It's not a bad time to move up and interest rates are pretty good, although they could go down. Take your time and you will find what you want. Home inventories are low right now but there will be lots of listings over the next few months. Just be prepared to move quickly as houses are still selling and selling FAST. Hours will make the difference on getting the house you want...or not.


Which is why (if possible) one buys the next home then sells home #1. Providing one has the equity to do so. Not sure how the OP's set up, for us there is no way in hell we could be out of this house 15 days after closing. That's taking in to account having most of our belongings already packed.
The shop is an easy 2 week take down , pack, bribe people to move.
Gun safe[s] guns, valuables, items one does not want to trust a third party moving, let alone packing up. Yeah i'm starting to agree with my spouse, 30 days, minimum for packing.
Luckily we're in a place financially with the house we could use the equity for another place and still afford both.

As for renting knowing you have a garage, forget it. I'd wager 2 weeks in the renters have the garage turned in to a grow op. I

[Martinjmpr]

Option 2 is only appealing if you can move to an "acreage". Most newer homes come with HOAs that will restrict your collection of toys. You need "country" property, or "in-town" acreage

Any HOA that charges fees and has a board is a no-go and we will be carefully investigating any restrictive covenants regarding storing our fleet of vehicles.

As far as living in a rural area goes - no, not right now. I'm still working and have at least 10 years before I'll retire. Wife is not currently working but that may change next year. Right now my commute is about 25 minutes each way and that's pretty decent. Some of the places we're looking at would cut that down to maybe 10 minutes or even within easy bicycling distance of work.

I admit that the idea of having some acreage and a place where I could set up a shooting range in the back yard is very appealing to me, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take on all the additional "work" that comes with living in a very rural area. The kind of place where you have to buy a tractor or a bulldozer to keep your driveway cleared in the Winter and where every time you need to go to the store it's a 30 mile round trip - just not sure I'm ready for that yet. Plus the wife is very "social" and I don't think she'd be happy living in a place where the nearest neighbors were a mile away.

I think if we ever did move to someplace like that I'd want it to be someplace a bit further South and warmer - maybe Arizona or New Mexico.


Move. You get the excitment of something new.

It's funny, the wife and I were talking about this over the weekend. She has lived in exactly 4 places in her entire life. She was born at Porter, lived in Englewood off of Grant street until she was 18, got married, she and her first husband lived in two apartments and then in 1981 they moved into the house we're in now, so she has not moved to another house since she was 18. I pointed out to her that you could draw a circle one mile in diameter and she has lived her entire life inside that circle. She's traveled, of course, but as far as places she's LIVED, she's always been in either Englewood or in Littleton right next to Englewood.

By contrast, I was a military brat, born in Germany, lived in a bunch of places and the longest I'd ever lived in any one place before we met was 7 years between the ages of 11 and 18. From 1980 when I joined the Army until 2005 when I met my now-wife, I figured I moved at least 24 times.

So for me, at least, moving is no big deal, but I wonder how well the wife will deal with it, especially considering the house we're in now is the house where she raised her children.

[Martinjmpr]

Which is why (if possible) one buys the next home then sells home #1. Providing one has the equity to do so. Not sure how the OP's set up, for us there is no way in hell we could be out of this house 15 days after closing. That's taking in to account having most of our belongings already packed.
The shop is an easy 2 week take down , pack, bribe people to move.

That is actually the plan. We have pretty decent equity in our current house (only owe $50k on a house that appraises well north of $200k) and both of us have stellar credit so we would actually find and move into the new place before we even put the current house up for sale.

The plan would be to move into the new house, spend a little time getting the old house in good selling condition, sell it, and then apply the equity to the new house. Since we're moving locally in the Denver area, we could take our time moving and that would cut moving expenses considerably (really the only thing we'd have to pay to have moved would be the gun safe - everything else we could get on our trailer with the help of family and friends.)

If everything works out perfectly (yeah, I know it never does) we should end up with a fairly low mortgage on the new house because we will have paid down so much of the loan.


As for renting knowing you have a garage, forget it. I'd wager 2 weeks in the renters have the garage turned in to a grow op.

Not super-crazy about the idea of renting. I already HAVE a job, I don't need another one as a landlord. And maybe I'm overly cautious but I've heard too many horror stories of renters from hell destroying rental properties to want to consider that.

The thing that could hurt that plan would be if sometime AFTER we buy the new house and BEFORE we sell the old house, there's some event that causes the housing market to crash. Now, I don't think it would crash so hard that we would end up selling our house at a loss (I don't even want to THINK about how bad things would have to get for that to happen) but we could potentially end up with a lot less money than we anticipated and that would mean our mortgage on the new place would be much higher. Then there's the variable of what if the "new" house needs major repairs right after we move in? That could be another financial gut-punch.

Anyway, thanks for the input!

[Martinjmpr]

All i got out of it was 4 suvs??? Sell 2-3 and get a truck for the trailors.



Wife and I each have a car for DD (Daily Driver) duties. Hers is a Honda CR-V and mine is an older Pathfinder with a 5 speed (from back when the Pathfinder was a "Compact" SUV). Wife also has a Jeep Wrangler and finally we have a Suburban to pull the trailer, so that's the 4 SUVs. ;)

Honestly I'd like to get rid of the Wrangler since we almost never drive it but it's the wife's "toy." She had to sell her motorcycle in 2012 because she developed a nerve condition that made it painful for her to ride so the Jeep was the replacement and I think she likes having it even though we probably only put 2000 miles a year on it. I still have my motorcycles so I'm not going to ask her to sell the Jeep.

All our vehicles are in good condition and paid for, so as long as we have room to park them there's no reason to get rid of them.

[MED]

I think you need to ask yourself two questions: Is your current home where you want to live long term? If not, use this as an opportunity to relocate when you are ready. Secondly, the cost of construction is overly expensive so the next question is determining at what point you can recoup the costs of construction. For instance, I stopped all my plans to add onto my house when I determined that I am relocating in ten years when I retire. I would never get my money back out of the improvements I wanted nor would I have the time to depreciate the cost of them. Get the estimates and figure out how much they increase the sale price of your home. If your home value becomes considerably larger than the home comparables in your area, then it's a really bad idea.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I would find 1100 sq ft cramped but if it only feels that way for you when entertaining then don't do any of the above. Build an entertainment space behind the house -- a patio built specifically for entertainment with outdoor cookery, chillers for beverages, bench seating, speakers for music, and IR heaters for after the sun goes down. You can set up a pergola-type affair or frame to take a canvas canopy when weather looks bad so you have the best of open night skies or weather protection as you desire and do it all for less than blowing out a wall and officially expanding the house BUT it probably wouldn't add to the value of the house itself as much as expanding the house would. OTOH, that space could be built out without you having to deal with construction on the house while trying to live in it.

Otherwise, I'd make sure you can find a place that accommodates your toys. Once you find it, buy it and move then fix up and sell the old place. She deserves to live some place different ...

[Irving]

If 1,100 sq/ft feels cramped with only two people, it's because you have too much stuff. I'd look at selling or donating everything you have that you haven't used within the last 12-18 months (including clothes) and re-evaluate from there. Put the money you recovered from selling stuff toward your retirement.