View Full Version : Interesting Day (Credit Card Fraud)
TL;DR Was hoping to a catch a thief. All I caught is an extra trip to Best Buy
So I woke up this morning and checked my credit card (the only one I use) as I do every morning. I'm no stranger to fraud, had this happen no less than three other times with Wells but always minor.
See a charge for BEST BUY 0994 RICHFIELD MN for just under $700 which we did not make. The charge was an auth made just yesterday.
Call Citi to let them know. They immediately cancelled the card and are sending a new one. Charge is disputed and I'm not responsible. Citi suggests I call Best Buy to let them know.
Called BB and it turns out all BestBuy.com orders are billed through their Richfield store. I assumed it was an in-store purchase with a cloned card, but it was online. The thieves set up a new email address with my uncommon last name. They used all my other real info; address, full name, credit card.
The order was for a Dell laptop and was set to be delivered today! Again, this order was placed just yesterday. BB gave me the tracking number so I could watch for it.
Brown truck arrived around 5:30PM. I ran out, opened the box from the bottom, pulled the laptop and replaced it with a rock. Watched closely for about an hour but zero activity. Bummer.
I called Douglas County Sheriff this morning too and they were actually really interested in all of this (started a report). Apparently it's a felony because of the identity theft. Normally ~$700 doesn't rate a felony. They advised me to be a good witness and get info of anyone came to the house. Deputy advised me to check for skimmers at gas stations as that is becoming the most common means of getting CC info. I filled up at a Safeway on Federal (after a meeting in that part of town) this week and I suspect that was it.
Good news is Best Buy gets their laptop back and I'm not out any money just time. I suspect they were either tipped off with a declined transaction or BB sent an email.
PSA1: Check your credit cards! Debit cards are more badder.
PSA2: Sign up with UPS to get alerted anytime you have a package coming to your address (from any shipper)
PSA3: Don't burn a day off waiting for thieves that never show
someone has stolen my credit card info. and made purchases a couple of times now, and my credit card company has contacted me, so I see no reason to check daily since they seem to do it for me. And so far I've had no problem with the credit card company not charging me for any unauthorized charges.
I was under the impression that debit cards were a good way for thieves to steal money right out of a checking account, assuming it is tied directly to your checking, so I avoid debit cards.
This has happened to me no less than 10 times in the last year. Every time on a debt card, every time I get my money back. It's a major pain in the ass and a huge waste of time. I want someone to get caught one of these days.
Gcompact30
07-26-2017, 19:53
Dam someone got my son in IL and GA at a dam chick fila in June and July for 162.00 dam dollars. Who eat that much dam chicken.....
I've gotten hit 3 times in the past year with this type of thing.
TheSparkens
07-26-2017, 20:31
I had the exact same thing but the bank is looking at what the company is because it looks like it was an online purchase also with a home base in MN. I woke up and noticed a charge at 5:00 am. today. I only use this card for a few things this is the third time for me with a Wells Fargo card. I have alert sent to my phone so I caught it fast and shut it down in minutes. last time it was twenty purchases in about an hour.
Amazed some of your get hit so often, and I've not had anything once. (Except somehow an oddball charge from a firewall software type company here in colorado for a few liscences which got fixed w/ wells fargo)
Setup txt notifications on your cards. Setup card not present, setup charges over $25/5 dollars, etc.
July 1st my Chase card was hit. I got a txt of a charge to Best Buy as well. My wife and I don't carry that card and we rarely use it. Carries a $0 balance and we in Nebraska. Chase cancelled the card and sent new ones. Didn't hear anything else.
SideShow Bob
07-26-2017, 21:38
Dam someone got my son in IL and GA at a dam chick fila in June and July for 162.00 dam dollars. Who eat that much dam chicken.....
The vagrant lady that is on the corner of Evans & Holly that holds up the sign that says "Wishin for Chicken" ?
Shooter45
07-26-2017, 22:42
When I worked overseas, and for the government for years, I got used to leak information and credit cards being among them. I used free services from the government for years because of these leaks but they did not better than myself monitoring my credit card. Just keep up with them closely and you catch fraudulent charges that are quite often; although most don't watch and pay it. I've had loans placed in my name across the World but my credit card companies have always been great for it. Cabela's has been among the best by far.
Great-Kazoo
07-26-2017, 23:06
When my card co asked me. Are you sure you didn't make those charges?
Which i replied. If i did make them as you're implying. Could you explain how i used a Limo service in S.F 4x while the same day i was buying lunch (based on the amount) for my co-workers in N.Y AND ordering a laptop in Chicago?
OH i see that, yes you're right [facepalm]
IF Card companies actually had those who commit fraud arrested, instead of not holding you responsible for the charges. No matter the amount charged, the theft of you're i.d. would drop.
.455_Hunter
07-26-2017, 23:54
Last year, against my better judgement at the time, I used my CC at Bubba Chinos on West Colfax (warning sign #1) for lunch. The guy swiped it through a reader on an iPhone (warning sign #2) and at 11:00 pm that night I got a text alert from US Bank wondering if I was trying to buy$250 worth of fuel in Commerce City. Turned out there were a couple of small "feeler" purchases earlier in the evening as well to make sure the card data was valid.
hurley842002
07-26-2017, 23:59
The guy swiped it through a reader on an iPhone (warning sign #2)
Many legitimate businesses are using moblile/tablet payments these days, so I'd hardly call that a warning sign.
Yes, it's becoming frequent. What surprised me this time was that someone was willing (I assume) to come to my home to get the laptop off the porch. That's putting someone (probably a runner and not the actual scammer) within arms reach.
[snip]
IF Card companies actually had those who commit fraud arrested, instead of not holding you responsible for the charges. No matter the amount charged, the theft of you're i.d. would drop.
The same card companies that send me two pre-filled applications a month in the mail? Just add bogus income info and a change of address and scammers are all set.
If they really wanted to stop this, they could. Lots of biz, legal and tech solutions. But we keep eating the cost and they keep making interest/transactions fees.
Just a reminder that there is an entire parallel economy out there of people who don't work but exist on the backs of others. Oh, and we buy their housing/healthcare/daycare/food too!
.455_Hunter
07-27-2017, 09:59
Many legitimate businesses are using moblile/tablet payments these days, so I'd hardly call that a warning sign.
I guess it depends on your personal experience. With the vendors I typically patronize and can see the process, they all utilize traditional countertop terminals.
hurley842002
07-27-2017, 10:11
I guess it depends on your personal experience. With the vendors I typically patronize and can see the process, they all utilize traditional countertop terminals.
I see you are in the mountains West of Boulder, that might explain things (non derogatory). Here in the metro area, I see them all the time, and frequent at least three different businesses that use ipads, and I believe square is the program they use.
68Charger
07-27-2017, 10:22
Many legitimate businesses are using moblile/tablet payments these days, so I'd hardly call that a warning sign.
I've never seen a issue around this... I personally like this, because the card doesn't leave your sight- if your waiter/waitress takes your card away, they could swipe it in a "skimmer" while they have it out of your sight- which is what I believe happened the only time I've ever had a CC unauthorized charge... new restaurant (not just new to me, they just opened), then early next morning I get a text for a charge at sportmansguide.com I contacted CC company and they handled it... I was able to use info I got from the CC company to get into the Sportsman's account they created (prodded a little, they "aren't suppose to share except with law enforcement"- and they were shipping it to a (presumably vacant) house in Littleton.
I contacted the restaurant to let them know they need to look at their card handling procedures, since the only time I've ever had CC fraud was hours after patronizing their restaurant... and don't be surprised if there is a and issue getting payment, since the card had to be cancelled as a result of this (that got their attention).
Those of you experiencing frequent fraud, I would look into what financial institutions and places you are charging- maybe this is just much more common in large cities.... my mother-in-law was hit several times in a year, turns out it was her oldest son's girlfriend copying down her info.
What about skimming RFID chip info while the card is still on one's person?
I've had my share of CC fraud and it's always been taking care of easily. Last Nov I had a case of check fraud where someone actually made checks in Florida and tried to deposit 4 different checks in the $710-730 range at a Bank of America. They had my old address on the checks and the check number was way off. B of A called me to let me know. I had to cancel my 1stbank acct that I had for 15 years. That was a bit of a pain, but they took care of the $2100+.
This is why I pay CASH for 99% my local purchases. If you are regularly using your Debit or Credit card for daily purchases under $100 then you are asking for trouble. Swiping a card is convenient until your info gets stolen and you have to deal with fraudulent charges, canceled cards, and reissued cards.
At a minimum only use your card at retailers that use the chip verification process. I know that many retailers are still not using the chip verification process and force you to swipe. For those establishments pay with cash to ensure that you don't get taken for a ride.
Given how much these credit card companies and banks lose on these fraudulent charges I am shocked that there isn't more effort put into tracking down these thieves.
ChunkyMonkey
07-27-2017, 10:56
My card got skimmed all the time. But these credit card companies will not file fraudulent charges agains HER!
68Charger
07-27-2017, 11:12
This is why I pay CASH for 99% my local purchases. If you are regularly using your Debit or Credit card for daily purchases under $100 then you are asking for trouble. Swiping a card is convenient until your info gets stolen and you have to deal with fraudulent charges, canceled cards, and reissued cards.
At a minimum only use your card at retailers that use the chip verification process. I know that many retailers are still not using the chip verification process and force you to swipe. For those establishments pay with cash to ensure that you don't get taken for a ride.
Given how much these credit card companies and banks lose on these fraudulent charges I am shocked that there isn't more effort put into tracking down these thieves.
Ya don't get cash back rewards when paying with cash... I take advantage of that feature, and I've only experienced CC fraud once in my life. I have text and email notifications for anything over a reasonable amount, and use a slight paranoia when making decisions (look for skimmers on gas pumps, etc)
I think the credit card companies don't pursue it because the cost to pursue would frequently be more than the loss... take into account the horrible inefficiencies that large corporations have, and it won't get pursued unless some internal "six sigma" team within that company comes up with a solution... The chip certainly helps, but if swipe and RFID are eliminated as exploits, someone will find a way to exploit the chip, too.
Biometric payment signatures.
Ya don't get cash back rewards when paying with cash... I take advantage of that feature, and I've only experienced CC fraud once in my life. I have text and email notifications for anything over a reasonable amount, and use a slight paranoia when making decisions (look for skimmers on gas pumps, etc)
Ya don't get to bite your thumb at the globalists when paying with a card though. ;-)
Just kidding, I agree with your quoted statement. I've had CC fraud a couple of times but it was a pretty painless experience to get it resolved.
hurley842002
07-27-2017, 11:56
I've never seen a issue around this... I personally like this, because the card doesn't leave your sight- if your waiter/waitress takes your card away, they could swipe it in a "skimmer" while they have it out of your sight-
I concur, one of the family owned Mexican food joints we frequent (once a month is frequent for us), brings the iPad to our table, swipes the card, and allows us to sign, never losing sight of our card.
Yes, it's becoming frequent. What surprised me this time was that someone was willing (I assume) to come to my home to get the laptop off the porch. That's putting someone (probably a runner and not the actual scammer) within arms reach.
The same card companies that send me two pre-filled applications a month in the mail? Just add bogus income info and a change of address and scammers are all set.
If they really wanted to stop this, they could. Lots of biz, legal and tech solutions. But we keep eating the cost and they keep making interest/transactions fees.
Just a reminder that there is an entire parallel economy out there of people who don't work but exist on the backs of others. Oh, and we buy their housing/healthcare/daycare/food too!
matrícula consular?!
Great-Kazoo
07-27-2017, 12:16
This is why I pay CASH for 99% my local purchases.
Likewise. I see people everyday use their card for $1 - 3 - 5 purchases. Really, you just charged $2.40 on your card?
Ya don't get cash back rewards when paying with cash... I
I think the credit card companies don't pursue it because the cost to pursue would frequently be more than the loss... take into account the horrible inefficiencies that
1: i don't care about cash back. My average CC bill is $200, when traveling. Unless it's something i need and only on line i'll pay by postal m/order, if they accept it.
Like Cha-Lee, we're a cash n carry family.
2: CC companies don't pursue fraud due to them having an Acceptable Level of Loss (or something similar) to a CC company $5-10,000 isn't worth their time. Then there's the local LE side that says. Unless the card co wants to file charges, they don't get involved.
Gcompact30
07-27-2017, 12:23
Dam that was funny :-)
The vagrant lady that is on the corner of Evans & Holly that holds up the sign that says "Wishin for Chicken" ?
Biometric payment signatures.
Two factor auth is more better and less creepy. Apple has started doing this and I haven't had an issue yet.
Say any purchase over a certain amount is held until confirmed in real time with a unique code.
68Charger
07-27-2017, 14:24
Likewise. I see people everyday use their card for $1 - 3 - 5 purchases. Really, you just charged $2.40 on your card?
Yep, no penalty to me, and many times it's faster than waiting for someone with no math skills figure out how to make .60 in change... or heaven forbid I give them $5.40- and their head explodes.
1: i don't care about cash back. My average CC bill is $200, when traveling. Unless it's something i need and only on line i'll pay by postal m/order, if they accept it.
Like Cha-Lee, we're a cash n carry family.
I pay off my balance every month- by putting all my gas, groceries, etc on CC, I can get $700-900 cash back annually (I've got 3 kids still under 18 and at home).. that's nothing to sneeze at...
2: CC companies don't pursue fraud due to them having an Acceptable Level of Loss (or something similar) to a CC company $5-10,000 isn't worth their time. Then there's the local LE side that says. Unless the card co wants to file charges, they don't get involved.
Agreed, comes down to having to pay someone on their side to work with LE... They could create a position for loss recovery- but unless that team can show more money coming in than going out, what's the point? Many times even if they caught the criminals, there would be very little recoverable (open box item isn't same value as new). So the bean counters see it as just more money to lose paying somebody to work with LE to pursue.
Just got hit a couple of weeks ago. The card company called me and asked about the charges. They had already cancelled the card and I just had to go get a new one from the bank. Seems like it's the new normal these days.
The larger banks do have groups that do link analysis to identify groups involved in large scale credit card fraud. Big losses get prosecutors interested because they enhance the sentencing potential if they can get a conviction. Banks generally are not seen as sympathetic victims by many juries, so the cases tend to focus on heavy hitters in the fraud business.
If a criminal could just commit one crime and be done, the odds are extremely good they would never be caught and even if they were caught, they probably wouldn't be prosecuted. In law enforcement, almost anyone who makes it through booking and actually faces a trial has either committed a first time major felony, such as murder, rape, etc, or they have been in the system for a selection of crimes in the past, or they are first timers in the system who have committed many crimes and just never been caught before.
We count on the criminals being greedy and stupid. I have rarely been disappointed in my career.
Be safe.
My card got skimmed all the time. But these credit card companies will not file fraudulent charges agains HER!
You should be very happy that SHE has a sense of humor and a good credit limit. [ROFL1]
GilpinGuy
07-27-2017, 23:09
Like others wrote, have a notification sent via email and/or text for any charges over a certain limit (I picked $25 for no particular reason). It comes very quickly for us, like minutes, but I have heard from others that YMMV. This is for our Debit/Credit card from a small credit union.
The only drawback is I do get notified for every singe thing that gets purchased (over $25) and if it looks unfamiliar, local or funny at all (like the seller is "XMY DRF" or "19348189289") I ask my wife if she made any purchases. At first she got annoyed, but after a while she figured it out. Just covering our asses.
My wife got hit while we were on vacation at the lake.
She spent countless time calling iTunes, Google, etc. and the bank and still ended up with a cancelled card. Then she's pissed off at the world.
Happens to her frequently enough that I've tired of telling her to STOP USING A FUKN DEBIT CARD FOR EVERYTHING!
Needless to say, I haven't had a joint account for 20+ years with her.
Sgt from DCSD called me last night... He explained there isn't much they can do and are closing the case. I thanked him and said I expected as much, was just worried about the potential confrontation Weds night at my home.
He said the CC companies aren't helping either because they would rather err on the side of customer privacy than cooperate. Which I appreciate. I volunteered to release all my info in hopes of helping but he wasn't interested. He said they are working several major skimmer rings in the metro area.
BB got their laptop last night and thanked me. Manager said it's only the second time he's seen them actually get a product delivered.
The only times I've had credit card fraud issues have been after buying something from a firearms company online. 3 times in the last 3 years.
Skimmers are obvious... It's actually an additional device attached to the front of the card slot, if you ran your card through a pump with a skimmer and didn't notice something might be up then your situational awareness skills may be lacking.
My Wells Fargo debit card has the same protections as any credit card. They actually called me on the last instance this past spring before I even knew what was going on.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
The only times I've had credit card fraud issues have been after buying something from a firearms company online. 3 times in the last 3 years.
Skimmers are obvious... It's actually an additional device attached to the front of the card slot, if you ran your card through a pump with a skimmer and didn't notice something might be up then your situational awareness skills may be lacking.
My Wells Fargo debit card has the same protections as any credit card. They actually called me on the last instance this past spring before I even knew what was going on.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Skimmers are getting very undetectable with thin strips inserted to read the card...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/jiggling-isnt-enough-colorado-hit-with-undetectable-credit-card-skimmers
Right before going to do the drop location (in this case your house) to pick up the delivered goods, it is best practice to try and buy something else with the card. If card is declined, then you know the drop location is hot - if the card goes through, high probability of getting your stuff.
That said; they had your address. This is not a typical scammer with a skimmer some where. Just because I get your numbers doesn't mean I get your address. The MO here is most likely from an online purchase somewhere/breach, not a skimmer.
Also, for those that think they can find/spot a skimmer - you have no idea just how small, cheap, and invisible these things have gotten to.
[snip]
Skimmers are obvious... It's actually an additional device attached to the front of the card slot, if you ran your card through a pump with a skimmer and didn't notice something might be up then your situational awareness skills may be lacking.
[snip]
If I'm at Federal and 26th, my situational awareness is focused on the two-legged animals and their vehicles ;)
[snip
That said; they had your address. This is not a typical scammer with a skimmer some where. Just because I get your numbers doesn't mean I get your address. The MO here is most likely from an online purchase somewhere/breach, not a skimmer.
[snip]
I have an unusual name. Put it into Google and you get a half dozen hits with my address. I've tried to remove it where possible but just about given up. Having a CO biz and being a registered voter means I'm out there.
And I think the name on the card is on the strip, right?
I thought it was unusual they would go to that length as well though. Seems pretty risky.
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