View Full Version : Shooting at School in Parkland, Florida
SuperiorDG
02-23-2018, 10:09
This was a breakdown at every level.
The tough thing about school resource officers is that the 'warrior' type isn't usually the first to sign up for the job. I've never seen a school resource officer that appeared to be the cream of the crop. It's just not an exciting job.
From my experience, the Barney Fife type seems to get assigned to the job and I'm not sure that will ever change.
About to say the same thing.
If you haven’t already stop what your doing, and call your Representatives and Senators and tell them to vocally oppose any and all further infringements of the Second Amendment at the Local, State, and National levels.
*Rep. Ken Buck (R) at
(970) 702-2136
*Sen. Michael Bennet (D) at
(303) 455-7600
*Sen. Cory Gardner (R) at
(303) 391-5777
Call the Republican National Committee at
(202) 863-8500
Tell them enough is enough, we’re done “having the conversation” about “common sense gun control” and shall not be infringed means something last time you checked.
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Grant H.
02-23-2018, 11:58
If you haven’t already stop what your doing, and call your Representatives and Senators and tell them to vocally oppose any and all further infringements of the Second Amendment at the Local, State, and National levels.
*Rep. Ken Buck (R) at
(970) 702-2136
*Sen. Michael Bennet (D) at
(303) 455-7600
*Sen. Cory Gardner (R) at
(303) 391-5777
Call the Republican National Committee at
(202) 863-8500
Tell them enough is enough, we’re done “having the conversation” about “common sense gun control” and shall not be infringed means something last time you checked.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree, and do this regularly.
But, don't hold your breath for any effect.
UrbanWolf
02-23-2018, 13:44
how about a gun in the trained hands of the PE teacher who gave his life and confronted the gunman unarmed.... he was ready to step up, just didn't have the tools needed to take the loser out.
Less than 1% of the population will ever take such risks to protect others around him like a parent, almost all parents will take risks to protect their own child, but it's not so when your own child isn't at risk. I want to know in what kind of environment this PE teacher grow up in. Usually those who act like him were raised in a family that lost the father figure and the oldest child has to take up the responsibility of the father figure are care for his siblings, and then such person became an adult they act the same way for those around him. Most Distinguished Service Cross recipients are like that, they were awarded for taking risks and saving the lives of fellow men around them.
Less than 1% of the population will ever take such risks to protect others around him like a parent...
http://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM
When you spend all day, every day, with your students they pretty much ARE like your kids, so it's not a stretch really.
When you spend all day, every day, with your students they pretty much ARE like your kids, so it's not a stretch really.
I feel the same way about my team of co-workers. They're my work family.
More background on school policy of not arresting students:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comments
Policy goes all the way back to the Holder DOJ.
Prosecute everyone who had a hand in ignoring this.
If you can act in a justified manner do it. Don't think. Just act. The life you save maybe your own. And if you get a chance to be the hero at a school or theater shooting kill the second guy with them and give them both a buckwheats style death. Call a lawyer and shut your mouth. We will have your back after that. You will have plenty of time to think about it later.
People having my back by posting sayings about 2A is not much comfort.
People having my back by posting sayings about 2A is not much comfort.
I won't have your back Irving. I will be the one screaming "hang him high" at your trial. All I was saying is don't over think it if your life is in danger. He who hesitates is lost.
I know, and I know. Thanks for clarifying. :)
hollohas
02-23-2018, 17:18
It's now being reported that 3 additional deputies who were 1st on scene stayed outside the school.
Apparently when the PD showed up, there were 4 deputies in defensive positions outside. The PD entered the building and the deputies did not join them.
Combined with the fact that it's now reported that not only was the FBI warned of the possible bad guy, the SO was warned twice as well. I can't imagine how the SO is going to deal with the PR storm that is brewing.
BushMasterBoy
02-23-2018, 17:21
Legally they could bring back the firing squad for execution. Film it and show it at all high school civics classes. I just figure this man was mentally ill.
There are lots of things worse than death. Being tortured with drugs in a mental hospital for instance. Or solitary confinement for life. Other prison activities. etc.
BPTactical
02-23-2018, 19:08
Of all the sources it could come from:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html
This puts an entirely different light on BCSO if true.
Delfuego
02-23-2018, 19:39
Lots of heated discussion, people got banned, and so on. And I had to work all day and missed it.All I want to know is who got banned?
KevDen2005
02-23-2018, 19:42
All I want to know is who got banned?
According to the CoGiirl303's profile it appears she was
Sheriff Israel has tried to play the victim card through this whole ordeal. His hands were tied. They couldn't have prevented this. Bullshit.
Won't surprise me if Israel is forced to resign after all is said and done.
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BPTactical
02-23-2018, 19:57
If in fact it proves true that the RSO remained outside along with 3 other SO's while another agency entered this absolutely infuriates me.
I am literally beyond words thinking of this scenario playing out.
hollohas
02-23-2018, 22:14
I am literally beyond words thinking of this scenario playing out.
My Dad who is a retired LEO had nearly the same reaction as yours.
If my name was Scott Peterson, I'd be changing my name right now.
KevDen2005
02-23-2018, 22:26
If my name was Scott Peterson, I'd be changing my name right now.
Didn't Scott Peterson kill his wife in California....or something like that?
Yes sir, and is the name of the brave deputy who stayed outside while all those snowflake teachers who were too scared to carry got fired upon. Can you believe those sheep teachers?
KevDen2005
02-23-2018, 22:30
Yes sir, and is the name of the brave deputy who stayed outside while all those snowflake teachers who were too scared to carry got fired upon. Can you believe those sheep teachers?
Oh I didn't realize that was his name.
Honestly if the guy has any real conscience he'll be on suicide watch before long.
Agreed, which is sad and ironic.
BPTactical
02-23-2018, 22:35
I saw earlier where there were supposedly 6 officers guarding Peterson's home.
How does that work?
6 officers to guard 1 that didn't do his job?
I saw earlier where there were supposedly 6 officers guarding Peterson's home.
How does that work?
6 officers to guard 1 that didn't do his job?
Oh, the irony.
BPTactical
02-23-2018, 22:52
Interesting read:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html
hollohas
02-23-2018, 23:09
Interesting read:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.htmlVery interesting.
BushMasterBoy
02-23-2018, 23:24
The largest industry in Florida is illegal narcotics in 1984. It still is today. Latest news from Port Lauderdale, Broward County...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-sb-cocaine-tons-port-everglades-20180213-story.html
Interesting read:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html...but...but...gun control and it's the NRA's fault.
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BPTactical
02-24-2018, 09:53
I can't find the link at the moment but there is also apparently a public corruption inquiry/investigation into the SO office there that predates the shooting - basically Mr. Guns-are-the-problem hired a lot of political donors and family into all the top paying positions in the department.
When a reporter asked about it, he quoted "Sheep shouldn't ask wolves questions".
I think I would have responded "Wolves don't stay outside the building, so whats your answer, Mr. Sheep?"
Here you go Foxtrot: https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu
When Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel Was Accused of Corruption, He Responded: 'Lions Don't Care About the Opinions of Sheep'
The first couple images will tell you all you need to know about Isreal and his 2A stance: https://www.google.com/search?q=scott+israel+and+hillary&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjC-qbJ9b7ZAhVQzFMKHS9lDZoQ_AUIEigC&biw=684&bih=332
Zundfolge
02-24-2018, 13:06
Well if anything goes down next Sunday in Houston we'll know its a false flag.
https://imgur.com/gallery/E6xHg
https://i.imgur.com/9pSpOna.png
buffalobo
02-24-2018, 14:18
Well if anything goes down next Sunday in Houston we'll know its a false flag.
https://imgur.com/gallery/E6xHg
https://i.imgur.com/9pSpOna.pngPay looks decent. As long as nothing goes wrong and end up with extra holes.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
[MOD EDIT - Quote removal]
I was under the impression it's a temp ban.
MOD: your impression would be correct.
I was thinking the hospital response route, but then I also figured that they would be looking for the handling of very specific injury types.
This whole child actor thing is one of the lower (as in despicable) conspiracy theories I've heard of. Usually the person suggesting some shooting was some kind of false flag event is the dumbest person in the room, but this new one takes the cake.
This whole child actor thing is one of the lower (as in despicable) conspiracy theories I've heard of. Usually the person suggesting some shooting was some kind of false flag event is the dumbest person in the room, but this new one takes the cake.
There is an uncanny coincidence of "drills" proceeding horrific events. I can' t make sense of it myself but it is what it is. Some of those like Boston Marathon make sense are part of security hardening for large events. But others are just plain odd.
I do find it suspicious that Google/YT would censor such discussion. There are plenty of 9/11 conspiracy theories out there blaming everyone from the Illuminati to Reptillians (or are they the same thing? [panic]).
I get why conspiracy theories can make people think twice. They have to be designed that way in the first place, or else they'd never gain any traction.
theGinsue
02-24-2018, 19:25
I get why conspiracy theories can make people think twice. They have to be designed that way in the first place, or else they'd never gain any traction.
Not all conspiracy theories have no basis in reality. Don't ask me how I know this.
Several conspiracy theories have been proven correct over the years.
Great-Kazoo
02-24-2018, 19:48
My conspiracy is, the SO's were told not to go in.
Based on a few links provided for school system, agreements between different agencies for not reporting crimes done by yutes. It fits a clear agenda by left of center policy makers to give shelter to J.D's and once again demonize gun owners.
My conspiracy is, the SO's were old not to go in.
Based on a few links provided for school system, agreements between different agencies for not reporting crimes done by yutes. It fits a clear agenda by left of center policy makers to give shelter to J.D's and once again demonize gun owners.
I totally don't get how police organizations can make these under the table arrangements with school boards that change how state laws are applied/enforced. That makes no sense.
Great-Kazoo
02-24-2018, 21:01
I totally don't get how police organizations can make these under the table arrangements with school boards that change how state laws are applied/enforced. That makes no sense.
Politics. Here the town board wanted final say who was hired as the new Police Chief. That was met with as much opposition as there was to Frankenstein's Castle
kidicarus13
02-24-2018, 21:16
It's entertaininghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180225/a3ad977831c7114d373f6c4afd83f9cc.jpg
It's entertaining
Those poor kids are sure having a good time with it.
And that’s what makes things “weird” for me. All that laughter that gets switched off when it’s show time.
It's entertaininghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180225/a3ad977831c7114d373f6c4afd83f9cc.jpgThere was an article about a week ago where the girl who's picture is being used repeatedly by the media/social media was wanting it stopped. She broke down at a memorial service for the Boston Marathon bombing and her photo is being used in so many non-related stories.
ETA: Found the link to the story about the re-use of her photo
The conspiracy theory that won't end: 'Enough is enough' (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-end-enough-is-enough/ar-BBJqXgJ)
When Emma MacDonald saw the tragedy unfolding at a high school in Florida, she felt a sense of dread.She knew what would come next: the same lie that's been spreading for years.
It's like clockwork. New life is given to the hurtful conspiracy with each tragedy. Each time MacDonald, of Boston, feels to blame because it's her face that is used to promote one of the more popular conspiracy theories over the last few years.
"Enough is enough," said MacDonald, 25. "This needs to go away."
It started with a photo of MacDonald breaking down in tears during a vigil after the 2013 Boston marathon bombing. Conspiracy theorists took the image and pasted it alongside other crying women after mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Co. — and the latest addition in Parkland, Fla.
All are white, thin and brunette. Most are crying. The aim is to try to prove those grieving after the tragedies were actually the same person and a staged actress paid to respond to crisis around the county. The collage has been used after the Manchester Arena bombing and a 2015 shooting at a college in Roseburg, Oregon that left 10, including the gunman, dead.
"When you're short on crisis actors," the photo is labeled, which quickly went viral on social media after last week's shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
The post didn't include that the woman added from Parkland, Fla. wasn't a student at all but actually CBS producer Gisela Margarita Perez, who was posing for a photo with student survivors before an interview.
Conspiracy theories are nothing new. But the internet and social media has made them even more accessible.
Studies have shown (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/12/23/conspiracy-theory-psychology/815121001/) people tend to believe even far-flung theories in situations that are out of their control or when a theory better aligns with their beliefs.
The madness started within months after the photo was taken, MacDonald said. She didn't know anyone who died in the Boston bombings but attended a vigil a day after the April, 15, 2013 attack.
She got emotional after seeing a young boy place a flower down during the vigil and started crying. An Associated Press photographer captured the moment and it ended up in newspapers across the country, making her a target of conspiracy theorists.
"I feel like I was very vulnerable in that image. I was sobbing uncontrollably and every time I see it, I'm right back there and relieve those moments," MacDonald said. "I just feel awful for the victims and families of the other women because they lost loved ones and still have to deal with this madness. It's just exploiting a tragedy."
Friends, bosses and acquaintances have all reached out to her over the years after seeing the theories online. At first, she said, she tried to report those who were posting the false narratives but it became more of an uphill battle after each tragedy.
"Every time it's like what do I do? Do I report every single blog post and try to debunk every theory?" she said. "Part of me genuinely didn't even want to call attention to it because that's just feeding the trolls."
She reported one of the incidents Tuesday and hopes changes to Facebook and other social media platforms will help prevent against the fake stories from spreading as quickly as they have in the past.
But social media companies have continued to take heat in the aftermath of tragedies as critics call for filters to stop the spread of conspiracies that mislead the public and compound the pain for victims of violent attacks.
YouTube apologized Wednesday (https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/02/21/crisis-actors-youtube-david-hogg-video-removed-after-tops-trending-video/360107002/) after a video attacking a survivor of the Florida high school shooting was at the top of its "trending" tab. The video has since been deleted.
MacDonald says there has to be some way of stopping the flow of misinformation and hopes people will verify information before sharing it.
"I'm just some random girl in some random photo and I hate it," she said. "My face is used as a tool to these people. It's used as a distraction to what's really happening — the grief these people are feeling and the solutions that can help prevent against this from happening again.
hollohas
02-25-2018, 00:04
That girl hasn't aged at all!
Broward Sheriff’s Office investigates allegations that multiple deputies stayed outside during the Parkland massacre (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/broward-sheriff’s-office-investigates-allegations-that-multiple-deputies-stayed-outside-during-the-parkland-massacre/ar-BBJwOTG)
Israel, the sheriff, told the South Florida Sun Sentinel on Friday that if investigators find “that our deputies made mistakes and didn’t go in, I’ll handle it like I always have.”
Sure you will. [facepalm]
KevDen2005
02-25-2018, 00:29
I have a theory that conspiracy theories are actually part of a greater conspiracy to distract the public with fake conspiracies so they don't see the bigger all-encompassing conspiracy that's really pulling the strings.
I call my theory life. It's also known as "bitch".
Like Flat Earth
DavieD55
02-25-2018, 08:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cwyVQrc5BE
KevDen2005
02-25-2018, 08:27
There was an article about a week ago where the girl who's picture is being used repeatedly by the media/social media was wanting it stopped. She broke down at a memorial service for the Boston Marathon bombing and her photo is being used in so many non-related stories.
ETA: Found the link to the story about the re-use of her photo
The conspiracy theory that won't end: 'Enough is enough' (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-end-enough-is-enough/ar-BBJqXgJ)
I'm sure some conspiracy theorist will tell you how the news is in on it and they are doing this to distract us that she is an actor being used at all the locations.
I enjoy the conspiracy theorists on this. First they never seem to realize how big of a conspiracy theory it would be if what they were pushing were true. They don't seem to think that a real conspiracy probably wouldn't be so lazy to just use the same exact person each time. And they never seem to realize how easy it is to change wording on these photos like a meme to say "Aurora," "Sandy Hook," etc. Actually I find the whole mess really irritating. How do we deal with these situations while preserving our freedoms and then these idiots push this crap.
I think the solution is to get the idiots a job in the government. We wouldn't lose any efficiency. And then maybe they could see that the government can't wipe it's own ass without shitting up the wall even with a couple million hands available.
To think it is capable of any real level of intelligence, planning, organization and secrecy is amusing to me (or any other large organization for that matter) We can't even keep truly critical information like the F35 plans protected.
The strength of an organization (people) is always its weakest link (people).
https://www.atomicheritage.org/sites/default/files/Somebody%20blabbed.jpg
I'm sure some conspiracy theorist will tell you how the news is in on it and they are doing this to distract us that she is an actor being used at all the locations.
I enjoy the conspiracy theorists on this. First they never seem to realize how big of a conspiracy theory it would be if what they were pushing were true. They don't seem to think that a real conspiracy probably wouldn't be so lazy to just use the same exact person each time. And they never seem to realize how easy it is to change wording on these photos like a meme to say "Aurora," "Sandy Hook," etc. Actually I find the whole mess really irritating. How do we deal with these situations while preserving our freedoms and then these idiots push this crap.
The outlandish ones distract from the real and valid questions that go unanswered.
If gov/Libs weren't so intent on using these tragedies to take civil liberties, I think there would be less interest in explaining everything. Before the bodies were even cooled this time, CNN was already on location, renting a venue for the "town hall" which was used to present a false plurality to the American People. They succeed in pushing narratives in the absence of fact/reason.
To me it is irresponsible to let anyone use these events without them being fully explained and often a careless rush to fill in the gaps while "authorities" stay silent or selective. Example, after the "town hall" we now hear of the four(?) deputies who did nothing for four minutes. That was a fact previously unexplored while Israel got on stage and demanded we accept that we (the NRA, etc) are responsible and be disarmed.
Multiple levels of LE failed demonstrating a greater need for 2A. What if there are similar facts in Las Vegas? It took a year for us to learn LE was notified in the Aurora theatre murders. I believe the mag ban was already drafted at that point (but not passed).
That doesn't mean I need to invent outlandish explanations for the unanswered questions. We just need honesty and I don't think we're going to get it because we let them move without it.
If the "authorities" would present the full and unfiltered facts there would be far less opportunity for theory and greater trust.
BushMasterBoy
02-25-2018, 10:27
The F35 avionics can't communicate with the F22 avionics because the parties that designed the systems did NOT communicate with each other. They have to have a F15 with a translator pod to to interface the two separate models. This is OPEN knowledge! Please don't promote NON COMMUNICATION.
The same problem with this shooting, failure to communicate. Sure some operations need to be kept quiet for success. I get that. This is my opinion and may be totally wrong.
hurley842002
02-25-2018, 16:24
https://youtu.be/yOOYXku7x3A
Obviously and understandably emotional father of one of the victims, still able to talk with some sense.
https://youtu.be/yOOYXku7x3A
Obviously and understandably emotional father of one of the victims, still able to talk with some sense.Heard him when he met with Trump. This father totally gets it.
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Trump should be stopped in his tracks. But if he is handing it to the legislation to handle we are going to see Dems tuck tail and run just like with DACA. They need the guns out there to kill people and they need cheap workers for companies. They are truly evil.
hurley842002
02-25-2018, 19:46
Heard him when he met with Trump. This farther totally gets it.
Sent from my SM-T700 using TapatalkThey had one of the students from the school on Fox today, and he was talking with some sense too. I can't find the clip, but his name was Kyle Kashuv I believe, maybe somneone else will have better luck.
I wonder how the school and community would react if the entire country banded together to demand how they let his happen to themselves. Makes about as much sense as attacking the NRA.
Makes about as much sense as attacking the NRA.
Makes way more sense. The NRA didn't fail them, the system that they insisted be in place to prevent this failed them.
See something say something. Check. FBI failed.
Police investigate multiple warnings. Check. Didn't report any of the issues that would have created a NICS flag.
SRO armed to provide school protection. Check. SRO never entered the school.
So why are my guns getting the blame?
So why are my guns getting the blame?
'cuz guns are bad. Mmmmkay.
OtterbatHellcat
02-25-2018, 22:40
You forgot the question mark, but lolz.
There was an article about a week ago where the girl who's picture is being used repeatedly by the media/social media was wanting it stopped. She broke down at a memorial service for the Boston Marathon bombing and her photo is being used in so many non-related stories.
ETA: Found the link to the story about the re-use of her photo
The conspiracy theory that won't end: 'Enough is enough' (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-end-enough-is-enough/ar-BBJqXgJ)
What you posted sounds plausible and believable to me. I just think there’s too many people who know about Operation Northwoods and our own governments lack of morals when it comes to false flag activity. What about Operation Fast and Furious? After that fiasco I do find myself questioning the narratives that are presented to me.
DenverGP
02-26-2018, 01:55
https://i.imgur.com/vGuzboM.jpg
Firehaus
02-26-2018, 11:46
I thought this was interesting timing for everyone that blindly discounts any of the conspiracy theories of the past.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/whats-hot/12-crazy-conspiracy-theories-that-actually-turned-out-to-be-true/ss-BBJo2h8?li=BBnb7Kz
http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-teacher-pulled-students-safety-classroom-amid-barrage/story?id=53222626
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[snip]
http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-teacher-pulled-students-safety-classroom-amid-barrage/story?id=53222626
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At first glance, Lippel said she thought the shooter could be a police officer because of the way he was dressed -- in "full metal garb" complete with helmet, face mask and bulletproof armor.
"I'm staring at him thinking, 'Why is the police here? This is strange,'" she said. "And I'm just looking at him, but I'm still getting the kids, knowing this is an emergency."
Likely more hidden/undisclosed facts by authorities. This will grow more conspiracy theories.
The rational explanation is that the POS Sheriff wanted to take the stage and demand gun control in the absence of these facts so he is holding on to them to advance his narrative.
Another one I'm seeing this morning is folks trying make sense of the four deputies who waiting outside while the shooting was happening. Wondering if there wasn't some plan/FF. Sounds crazy.
Letting a gov keep facts from us, while taking civil liberties, is more crazy IMHO.
https://ace.mu.nu/
Good morning kids. The rush by the Left to destroy our right to self-defense via the desecration of the memory of the victims of Florida's mass shooting and the demonization of an entire swathe of citizens who had nothing to do with it (in every sense) continues apace. But, disturbing revelations are coming to light about the policies of the Broward County Sheriff's department up to and post the shooting, as well as that of the Obama Administration that architected a broader legal foundation for them (a perversion of the legal system, really) and pulling way back for the bigger picture, 50+ years of Leftist social engineering that have shredded the morality and fabric of our society.
Bold is mine.
The (D) does not care about the people who were murdered, the (D) sees them as pawns in the greater game the destroy The Constitution and the USA.
Whatever they are doing its working. The local radio news keeps on beating the gun control drum and doesn't seem to care one bit about the vast corruption in government and police forces. No one anywhere points out how police are repeatedly found to be hiding on the scene during the shootings. I always have to tell my wife to turn that crap off. 850 is pretty much gone at this point.
Shooter45
02-27-2018, 10:05
The new theory out now is that all of the deputies that remained outside while the shooting took place were told to stand down unless they had body cameras on in which they did not have them. So much more will come out of this with time but hopefully the Sheriff is relieved.
http://tribunist.com/news/deputies-told-not-to-enter-florida-high-school-during-mass-shooting-unless-they-had-body-cameras/?utm_source=AFY
Whatever they are doing its working. The local radio news keeps on beating the gun control drum and doesn't seem to care one bit about the vast corruption in government and police forces. No one anywhere points out how police are repeatedly found to be hiding on the scene during the shootings. I always have to tell my wife to turn that crap off. 850 is pretty much gone at this point.
I said pages back... The facts don't matter because both sides are polarized. Common sense, rational thought, nothing matters. We have one America that wants the other disarmed and that first America fears the worst.
Someone has gotten all of media on the same page to push this rapidly, hard, and long. We are in week #2 now and you're right, it's pervasive.
Great-Kazoo
02-27-2018, 11:47
The new theory out now is that all of the deputies that remained outside while the shooting took place were told to stand down unless they had body cameras on in which they did not have them. So much more will come out of this with time but hopefully the Sheriff is relieved.
http://tribunist.com/news/deputies-told-not-to-enter-florida-high-school-during-mass-shooting-unless-they-had-body-cameras/?utm_source=AFY
See post 309 ;)
'cuz guns are bad. Mmmmkay.
Not mine. I had a talk with them and they are going to shape up and fly right. Plus, I keep them locked in the safe for days on end. Plenty of time to think about what they did and make the right choice.
Singlestack
02-28-2018, 09:22
The new theory out now is that all of the deputies that remained outside while the shooting took place were told to stand down unless they had body cameras on in which they did not have them. So much more will come out of this with time but hopefully the Sheriff is relieved.
http://tribunist.com/news/deputies-told-not-to-enter-florida-high-school-during-mass-shooting-unless-they-had-body-cameras/?utm_source=AFY
Yes, the Sheriff is very relieved he hasn't been impeached or let go yet. He is an amazing leader - just ask him.
SouthPaw
02-28-2018, 09:56
https://www.greeleytribune.com/news/local/dicks-cuts-off-sales-of-assault-style-rifles-in-stores/
Great-Kazoo
02-28-2018, 10:09
https://www.greeleytribune.com/news/local/dicks-cuts-off-sales-of-assault-style-rifles-in-stores/
you're 2 post and another thread 2 late
hollohas
02-28-2018, 10:11
The good sheriff down in Florida has had at least 66 of his employees indicted since 2012 with charges ranging from drug trafficking, kidnapping, assault, homicide, etc.
Approximately 66 BSO (Broward Sheriff’s Office) deputies and other employees, including supervisory personnel were arrested for, charged with, and/or convicted of crimes that run the gamut from Armed Kidnapping, to Battery, Assault, Falsifying records, Official Misconduct, Narcotics trafficking, and other crimes involving dishonesty and violence...
The entire SO is dirty.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-27/broward-county-officials-opened-66-investigations-misconduct-under-sheriff-israel
SouthPaw
02-28-2018, 10:13
you're 2 post and another thread 2 late
Prove it!!
Damn you
The entire SO is dirty.
Maybe it's the entire state. I was amazed to read an article about giving back felons that have served time their right to vote and how many felons were in the state of Florida.
Found a reference;
Voting Rights Process For Florida Felons Unconstitutional, Judge Says (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582600802/voting-rights-process-for-florida-felons-unconstitutional-say-judge)
According to the Brennan Center for Justice, 1.5 million Floridians are currently ineligible to vote due to past felony convictions.
The population of Florida is 20.61 million.
ETA: Another reference;
Number of People by State Who Cannot Vote Due to a Felony Conviction
(https://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000287)
1 Florida 1,686,318 10.43%
Aloha_Shooter
02-28-2018, 12:35
Maybe it's the entire state. I was amazed to read an article about giving back felons that have served time their right to vote and how many felons were in the state of Florida.
Don't smear the entire state because of Broward County and the judiciary. I don't ever want to go back as a resident but other counties like Brevard are nothing like Broward. The Florida judiciary should have been cleaned out when the state SC attempted to give the 2000 election to Gore by letting him manufacture votes and trying to throw out military absentee votes but it's really hard to Clear the Bench when most voters don't take the trouble to get or stay informed.
The courts are lifetime politicians or reminiscent of the politicians that put them in office. They have no checks on their powers.
mtnrider
02-28-2018, 13:04
Don't smear the entire state because of Broward County and the judiciary. I don't ever want to go back as a resident but other counties like Brevard are nothing like Broward.
I agree. I was born and raised in Brevard county (spent over 40 years there), much different place then Broward county. Always been pro 2a and always has had pro 2A sheriff's. South Florida is (has) becoming Florida's "Denver"
.
SouthPaw
02-28-2018, 15:02
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html
Shooter45
02-28-2018, 15:16
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html
That's quite convenient right now as there's talk and support for arming teachers.
SouthPaw
02-28-2018, 15:19
That's quite convenient right now as there's talk and support for arming teachers.
Dems hired him to make a point I think.
That's quite convenient right now as there's talk and support for arming teachers.
Was he part of a sanctioned program arming teachers, or did he go off the deep end on his own?
mtnrider
02-28-2018, 16:04
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html
I live here in Georgia now and someone I know has a sister that works at that school. She told him it was an attempted suicide? He obviously failed if that was the case.
/
Sheriff says he got 23 calls about shooter's family, but records show more (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sheriff-says-he-got-23-calls-about-shooters-family-but-records-show-more/ar-BBJDGI3)
As critics have taken aim at law enforcement for missing warning signs about South Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz, public records have emerged that conflict with Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel's statements about the number of times deputies were dispatched to the shooter's home.
Records obtained from the sheriff's office by CNN show the law enforcement agency received at least 45 calls for service relating to Cruz or his brother from 2008 to 2017, before the attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland on Feb. 14. The sheriff's office has insisted it received no more than 23 calls for service regarding Cruz or his family.
CNN has repeatedly asked the sheriff's office to explain the discrepancy, sending emails and attempting to reach an agency representative by phone. The agency has not responded to those requests with an explanation.
BushMasterBoy
02-28-2018, 16:37
They should have gotten the boy this teacher. She would have made him a loving student.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/stephanie-peterson-new-smyrna-beach-middle-school/
Full capacity magazines apparently were not used...but that doesn't mean the antis will let it go. Oh, and the idea that smaller mags will allow someone to overpower a shooter while changing magazines? Riiiiight. See Also: Virginia Tech shooting.
Florida school shooter's AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-school-shooters-ar-15-may-have-jammed-saving-lives-report-says/ar-BBJHp1P)
MIAMI — Nikolas Cruz's semiautomatic rifle may have jammed during the massacre at a high school in Parkland earlier this month, according to Miami Herald news partner CBS4.
Cruz then dropped the AR-15 and fled with other students, CBS4 reporter Jim DeFede tweeted Tuesday afternoon, citing three sources familiar with the investigation. Cruz still had 150 rounds of ammunition — meaning many more people could have died had he been able to keep firing.
A source not authorized to speak on the record confirmed to the Herald that Cruz struggled with his gun during the onslaught, either due to the weapon jamming or because he fumbled trying to reload it.
Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that Cruz's rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.
The "weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart," one of the legislators, state Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, told the Herald.
Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.
http://theredelephants.com/ar-15s-sold-60-years-school-shootings-new-heres-theyre-happening/
Guns Have Existed in America For 200 Years and people have purchased AR-15’s for 60 years, but School shootings are new. The REAL issue is this…
Mother Jones recently published a study about the 96 mass shootings that have occurred since 1982. Their report shows that there have been 796 total people killed in mass & school shootings since 1982. They also show that only 25 of the 96 mass shootings since 1982, involved a semi-automatic rifle, or as the media likes to incorrectly call it, an “assault rifle.” In April of 2014, there was an attack that occurred at Franklin Regional High School in Murrysville — a typically peaceful community about 18 miles east of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. A student named Alex Hribal used a long knife to stab 22 of his fellow students, even though this attack was only three years ago, it is long forgotten by everyone except for those affected by that attack. Following this bloody day, no one called for the ban on knives, and no one dared discuss the true culprit behind these attacks, which is what we’ll get into here.
Many though, would like to know, why? Why is it that no one ever talks about the weapon of the attacker’s choosing in any mass attacks unless that weapon was a gun? Why is it that no one blames alcohol or calls for more liquor regulations when a drunk driver plows through a group of kids on their way home from school? Surely people know that the amount of innocent people killed every year by drunk drivers is about the same amount of people killed in intentional murders by guns right?
1959 advertisement for the Colt AR-15
360,000 people have been killed by guns since 1982. 324,000 of the 360,000 killed were shot by an illegally obtained firearm. This should show you a little bit about how defective our already strict gun laws are. Relevant to this, every day 28 people in the United States die in alcohol related motor vehicle crashes. This is one death every 51 minutes. The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $44 billion.
When we tried to ban alcohol during the prohibition, violent organized crime surfaced. When we try to ban narcotics such as cocaine, marijuana, heroin and others, more demand, black markets and violent crime surfaces. Why do we think this would be any different with guns?
The media at every turn is either blaming the gun or even “white masculinity” like in this article, but Mother Jones, a left leaning outlet even states that though whites make up the majority of mass shooters, they are still not over-represented relative to population in mass shootings.
Furthermore, according to FBI statistics, in 187,000 of the 360,000 who have been intentionally shot and killed by guns since 1982, the perpetrator was black. And in 90,000 of the 360,000 the perpetrator was Hispanic. So again, I’m not sure where the conclusion of “white masculinity” comes from. More importantly, almost all of these shootings that have happened in America were caused with illegally obtained firearms. Whether that be on the black market, in back alleys of gang infested urban areas, or by smash and grabs at gun stores. All of the studies available to us show that almost all of the gun crime here in America is caused by illegally purchased weapons. So why do we think more laws will stop this? Is the possession of drugs stopped by laws?
But aside from the racial aspect of everyday shootings like in Chicago or Baltimore, mass shootings like in Florida or Vegas, let’s get into the real reason behind mass shootings. Its not guns. Its fatherlessness. Fatherlessness and a country that has the most children on psychotropic drugs per capita in the world. The glorification of violence in Hollywood, the exponential rise in broken homes, the growing rate at which our children are being prescribed with psychiatric drugs and the fact that we closed around 80% of the mental institutions in the 1980’s makes for a deadly combination. A combination that is unique to America.
Susan LM Goldberg, an author for PJ Media, wrote in an article that “no one in the mainstream media or government wants to acknowledge” the key issue: fatherlessness. Goldberg. cited Warren Farrell, author of “The Boy Crisis,” who notes that “minimal or no father involvement is common to Nikolas Cruz, Adam Lanza, Elliott Rodger, Dylann Roof and Stephen Paddock.” Farrell says Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz’s “fatherlessness was compounded by the death of his adoptive mom.” Numerous factors are cited for a rise in mass shootings, “but boys with significant father involvement are not doing these shootings. Without dads as role models, boys’ testosterone is not well channeled” and they “become among the world’s most destructive forces.”
Lisa Spindler Photography Inc./The Image Bank/Getty Images
Farrell’s explanation about how masculinity can be a force for good or for evil is enormously instructive. “Without dads as role models, boys’ testosterone is not well channeled. The boy experiences a sense of purposelessness, a lack of boundary enforcement, rudderlessness, and often withdraws into video games and video porn. At worst, when boys’ testosterone is not well-channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most destructive forces. When boys’ testosterone is well channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most constructive forces.”
Thabiti Boone, a black author for The Root wrote “I never saw dads in the park playing with their sons, “I don’t remember my father hugging me. We never heard him say he was proud of us, The emotional pain of what I deserve and didn’t get, I have to carry it for the rest of my life.”
As we know, around 80% of all black children are now born into fatherless homes. In 1960 this number for black Americans was only at around 22% In the 1960’s the poverty rate amongst black Americans was at around only 6%, and today it is at 27.5% You would have to be one of the most naive people in the world if you don’t see the correlation here.
Also on the rise is the white rate of fatherlessness. In 1960, before the welfare state was instituted, the rate of fatherlessness amongst the white community was only at around 6%, today whit children born into fatherless homes are north of 30%
Study after study and scientist after scientist have published their findings on this subject. Psychiatric professionals have said that this is an urgent issue that must be addressed immediately, but no one wants to talk about it. Why? Well because that would mean there would have to be blame placed on the media and our politicians who created this issue through policy passed over the years.
Author Michael Kismet writes “The psychological effects of our childhood experiences can have an outsized impact on who we become later in life. Earlier today, I read an article that provoked what one might describe as a panic attack. As I read this very disturbing article about the psychological ramifications of growing up fatherless, it all just sunk in for me … that I was damaged. Unfortunately, I have personally experienced many of the psychological consequences mentioned in the article. Most alarming for me was this statement: “Growing up without a father could permanently alter the structure of the brain.” Notice the word “permanently.” Maybe I’ve had my head in the sand—or the clouds. I already knew that children from single-parent families tend to have more difficulties in life, but hearing it framed with these words? I was devastated.”
This is obviously a serious issue when fatherlessness alone can literally alter the physical structure of the brain. This statement is backed by dozens of scientific analysis and empirical data, yet no one in the media will dare touch on this subject. No politician has ever presented a bill to fix this. No one ever addresses this issue after a mass shooting, and frankly this is the only issue they should be addressing after a mass shooting.
When you have this level of extreme increase in broken homes coupled with the increase in school shootings, why can’t or why won’t anyone connect the dots? When you have the blatant inflation of children here in America that are being prescribed with psychotropic drugs, coupled with the increase of mass shootings, why do we disregard the connection? Is it because they want this to happen or because of shame? Maybe both.
The US census Bureau reports that we have an estimated 41,731,233 children from ages 0-17 here in American. An astounding 22% of these children are prescribed with and taking one or more psychotropic medication. This is up from just 2% in the 1950’s This means that over 9 million children are being medicated in this country today. Per capita this is highest in the world and it’s not even close.
Here are some of the mental side effects of some of these psychotropic drugs that our children are being prescribed with. A few of these are especially frightening considering the fact that we are combining this with a great societal breakdown, glorification of violence, increase in fatherlessness and decrease in religious and moral values. These are all things that were all either shunned or unheard of in the 1950’s.
Thoughts about suicide or dying
Attempts to commit suicide
Hallucinations
New or worsening depression
New or worsening anxiety
Feeling very agitated or restless
Panic attacks
Trouble sleeping (insomnia)
New or worsening irritability
Acting aggressively, being angry, or violent
Acting on dangerous impulses
An extreme increase in activity and talking (mania)
Other unusual changes in behavior or mood
The growing rate of medicated children, the growing number of children without fathers to help channel their testosterone as they age, and the growing number of children lashing out and turning to video games or the internet to find a way out, all correlate and make for a dangerous potion of devastation. And sometimes that means school shootings
Florida school shooter's AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.
So no standard capacity mags (for the liberals reading: "high capacity"), no bump stock, and the process for dealing with lunatics was ignored... why do we "need" more gun laws, again?
Florida school shooter's AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
You're only a page late.
kidicarus13
03-01-2018, 00:06
The "weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart," (from post #360 link)
Huh?!
So no standard capacity mags (for the liberals reading: "high capacity"), no bump stock, and the process for dealing with lunatics was ignored... why do we "need" more gun laws, again?
'cuz everything the anti-gunners wanted to avoid these types of things was in place and circumvented by government incompetence. We obviously need help from the govt. to solve the problem.
http://theredelephants.com/ar-15s-sold-60-years-school-shootings-new-heres-theyre-happening/
Guns Have Existed in America For 200 Years and people have purchased AR-15’s for 60 years, but School shootings are new. The REAL issue is this…
Mother Jones recently published a study about the 96 mass shootings that have occurred since 1982. Their report shows that there have been 796 total people killed in mass & school shootings since 1982. They also show that only 25 of the 96 mass shootings since 1982, involved a semi-automatic rifle, or as the media likes to incorrectly call it, an “assault rifle.” In April of 2014, there was an attack that occurred at Franklin Regional High School in Murrysville — a typically peaceful community about 18 miles east of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. A student named Alex Hribal used a long knife to stab 22 of his fellow students, even though this attack was only three years ago, it is long forgotten by everyone except for those affected by that attack. Following this bloody day, no one called for the ban on knives, and no one dared discuss the true culprit behind these attacks, which is what we’ll get into here.
.....
Man, all the crazies are coming out of the woodwork. Of course large scale fatherlessness is something that is detrimental to society, but there is a lot of wacko going on in this article.
Sounds like every AR-15 that an 18 yo I've known had. They never cleaned it and after 1000 rounds it was so dirty it was failing to eject or failing to load the next round. Had he known the police were waiting outside for the next coming of Jesus he might have broke it down and gave a thorough cleaning. They are still blaming the gun for the killer and not only his gun but everyone who has a gun like it. Except, the police and to some part the military. This puke might as well try and slip out the back door again while they are standing over the gun yelling at it.
Experts: Schools’ active shooter prep being done the wrong way (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/experts-schools’-active-shooter-prep-being-done-the-wrong-way/ar-BBJHq02)
The Department of Homeland Security's guidance for people in mass shooting situations is outdated and could be costing lives, an expert on mass shootings told ABC News in the wake of the Parkland, Fla., high school shooting that killed 17 people earlier this month.
DHS' advice to "run, hide, fight," which has been in place since the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn., incorrectly advises students to "hide" which leaves them vulnerable to mass shooters, Active shooter prevention expert Chris Grollnek told the news network.
Grollnek says he estimates that more than 90 percent of fatalities he examined in 13 different shootings were the result of victims trying to hide from their attacker.
"If someone told you there was a bomb in your building, would you get under your desk or would you leave the building?" Grollnek asked. "You would get out. An active shooter is the same thing as a ticking bomb in your building."
Former FBI special agent Greg Shaffer concurred with Grollnek's analysis in an interview with ABC, telling students to attempt to flee the area instead of hiding under desks.
"Hiding under your desk is hands-down the wrong thing to do," Shaffer said. "There needs to be a new shift to stress the importance of getting out of the school building."
"Those hiding under desks are just making themselves easy targets," he added.
Shaffer also called on schools to install safety features that can prevent casualties in the event of a mass shooting, such as classroom doors that can be locked from the inside without keys as well as keeping objects such as hammers or screwdrivers that could wound an intruder.
But the experts say running is still a better option.
"The hit rate on a moving target is less than 4 percent so by running, you have a 96 percent chance of getting away and even if you are hit, the fatality rate is less than 0.1 percent," Shaffer said. "Running is always your best option."
Commanding officer initially ordered responding deputies to 'stage' not enter Stoneman Douglas, sources say (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/commanding-officer-initially-ordered-responding-deputies-to-stage-not-enter-stoneman-douglas-sources-say/ar-BBJIFcb)
Fox News has learned that in the critical moments as first responding deputies were searching for an active shooter on the property of Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school, a commanding officer on scene apparently ordered some of the initial responders to “stage” and set up a “perimeter” outside -- instead of immediately ordering or allowing officers to rush in to neutralize the suspect, Nikolas Cruz.
“It’s atrocious,” a law enforcement source who was on the scene after the shooting told Fox News. “If deputies were staging it could have cost lives.”
The law enforcement source said responding deputies and officers were called to an active shooter scene in which they are trained to immediately “go, go, go” toward the direction of the shooter. “Every second is another life,” the source said.
The Broward County Sherrif’s Office policy on active shooters indicates responding deputies may enter the building to preserve life without permission. That remains the priority until various objectives are met such as the shooter being detained. The policy does not appear to list staging or a perimeter as an immediate priority.
Lots of details at the link above.
"A hammer or screwdriver to wound the attacker". Was harsh language too much to put on the table? How about a table to crush him with? Large blocks of cement suspended over a doorway too? Or a good old fashioned 1911 to fight fire with fire.
hurley842002
03-01-2018, 11:20
Experts: Schools’ active shooter prep being done the wrong way (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/experts-schools’-active-shooter-prep-being-done-the-wrong-way/ar-BBJHq02)Lots of wisdom in that article. Many of us are always preaching "when shtf your threat isn't going to be standing there waiting for you to shoot", yet in many of these school shootings, many of the victims are in fact standing, crouching, laying, etc, trying to hide in place. Your average shit bag, cluster B individual, likely practices shooting at static targets, if they practice at all.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion, no sources or facts involved.
That's quite convenient right now as there's talk and support for arming teachers.
Why on earth did this guy still have a job there?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5450101/Georgia-teacher-subject-previous-police-reports.html
Dalton police reports indicate they had encountered Davidson twice in recent years exhibiting odd behavior
•In a 2016 report, police wrote that Davidson had confessed to killing a woman
•Police said they investigated and were not able to verify that his story was true
•In another report last year, the teacher went missing during a school day and was later found sitting on a curb, conscious but unresponsive
•He was taken to hospital following both occasions, according to the reports
...
In a 2016 report, police wrote that Davidson had walked into the department and told a rambling story about wanting to confess to killing a woman.
...
But police said they investigated and were not able to verify that any of the information was true.
Police said that after the interview, Davidson was taken to a hospital 'based on him thinking about hurting himself.'
Officers said in another report last year that Davidson had gone missing during a school day after telling a supervisor that he was unwell.
He was later found by officers sitting on the curb of a street, conscious but unresponsive and being held up by two school staff members.
He was again taken to a hospital.
Obviously unhinged and in need of some care, even prior to the incident.
Experts: Schools’ active shooter prep being done the wrong way (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/experts-schools’-active-shooter-prep-being-done-the-wrong-way/ar-BBJHq02)
I think that is why the RUN comes before the HIDE part of the plan. If done in the right order, and the runners choose the directions that take them away from the shooter(s), they have an excellent chance of not becoming a casualty. HIDE only comes into play when RUN is not a safe option. Obviously when HIDE fails then FIGHT is all you have left unless being a stationary target is how you would like to exit this veil of tears.
Be safe.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2018, 14:55
Next shooting, they'll be outside waiting for all the students who will RUN from the building.
While we cannot have a Minority Report / Pre Cog society. At what point in a LE contact does one not see the red flags?
5? 10? 20? high 20's is unconscionable when we have the CLEO telling people on a worldwide forum, to ban certain kinds of guns because it's the guns fault. Yet for some reason neglected to mention His Deputies Failure to stop or impede this POS from continuing his killing spree. Everyone failed, EVERYONE, lets ban guns.
Aloha_Shooter
03-01-2018, 14:56
The big problem I have with a lot of active shooter training or policy is that they keep forgetting the "fight" aspect. Once getting out of the area is no longer an option and the shooter has found you, why meekly comply with his directions like the college students in Oregon did? I'd rather be shot while shoving a chair in his face or trying to cave his head in than shot while lined up against a wall with my hands up.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2018, 14:59
The big problem I have with a lot of active shooter training or policy is that they keep forgetting the "fight" aspect. Once getting out of the area is no longer an option and the shooter has found you, why meekly comply with his directions like the college students in Oregon did? I'd rather be shot while shoving a chair in his face or trying to cave his head in than shot while lined up against a wall with my hands up.
Flight 93, The 15:15 to Paris.
Run, fight, hide is what should be taught to deal with common core math.
Run, fight, hide is what should be taught to deal with common core math.
Just say "no".
The big problem I have with a lot of active shooter training or policy is that they keep forgetting the "fight" aspect. Once getting out of the area is no longer an option and the shooter has found you, why meekly comply with his directions like the college students in Oregon did? I'd rather be shot while shoving a chair in his face or trying to cave his head in than shot while lined up against a wall with my hands up.
Would that approach validate a natural right to self-defense? I think that's on the long list of badthink.
I agree with you 100%.
Whatever happened to get back to your rifle and get to cover and return fire? My high school was a little tougher than most. After our football team sacked a quarterback, they went after his family.
BushMasterBoy
03-09-2018, 10:27
God forbid anyone take the initiative, it will make somebody else look bad.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/swat-members-suspended-for-responding-to-florida-massacre/
SWAT members suspended for.....
RESPONDING without the Sheriff asking for "help".
Can't have the police interfering with the Sheriff's intent to let the maximum number of people be murdered. (Let's not forget it was the P.D. that went in, not the S.O, so their arrival was necessary)
It's plainly obvious there is something really wrong here.
And this is why we have "conspiracy theory."
It's plainly obvious there is something really wrong here.
And this is why we have "conspiracy theory."
Ain't that the truth.
Disgraced Parkland deputy heard shots inside school building, told cops to stay away
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article204226584.html
"But internal radio dispatches released by the Broward Sheriff’s Office Thursday show Peterson immediately fixated on Building 12 and even radioed that gunfire was happening “inside.”
He told everyone not to come within 500 feet of the building. If you're going to stay 500 feet away from the reason you were called out, why even bother arriving in the first place?
Great-Kazoo
03-09-2018, 13:02
Prior information had the immediate supervisor of the deputies ordering them not to enter as well. It would be one thing if there was any question on training, but post- columbine, LEO training has ALWAYS been immediate confrontation of active - especially school - shooters, and it's pretty much universal nationwide. One wouldn't need to get approval from ANYBODY, policy everywhere is to confront ASAP with whatever is available.
I don't believe in any "false flag" narratives, but I'm starting to wonder what, if any, were the underlying directives here. This Sheriff - who is a corrupt POS with pre-existing public corruption investigations upon him, with all the intra-district agreements to overlook school crimes in favor of stats, deputies under which already intentionally fabricate reports and mis-represent the reality of the situation, and Sheriff whom has been VERY vocally anti-firearm and vocally political, including on a national level is somewhat suspicious being his motivations in an active shooter event do not correlate well with others and the behavior of virtually all the deputies (which I could and did excuse in an isolated incident) is so out of the ordinary, contrary to established-in-stone training, public knowledge; and decades of response policy - this is as bizarre as if the Deputies were to respond to all DUI calls by drinking all open beverages in a vehicle to see if they themselves get drunk.
RE: my previous post #309
My conspiracy is, the SO's were told not to go in.
Based on a few links provided for school system, agreements between different agencies for not reporting crimes done by yutes. It fits a clear agenda by left of center policy makers to give shelter to J.D's and once again demonize gun owners.
[snip]
I don't believe in any "false flag" narratives, but I'm starting to wonder what, if any, were the underlying directives here.
[snip]
No one needs to conspire to create a false flag with circumstances like these. Just sit back, let it happen, and have the town hall ready. Communicate to "educators" to coordinate mass demonstrates to further fake a plurality. Censor the kids that disagree.
Gun control is passed in a matter of weeks. GOP president flips on his base.
The key players (FBI, Lib sheriff) look incompetent but not complicit.
The key players (FBI, Lib sheriff) look incompetent but not complicit.
The Sheriff looks guilty as sin and is a key player in the corruption that funnels Fed. money into the county by gaming the system and not reporting student criminal activity.
...but that's just my 2 cents.
I would agree with that. I believe he has close personal association with the school superintendent IIRC, so the underlying motive is mostly political, partially financial. The primary purpose for doing it is to create fake stats in a bad region, so the top school district officials / Sheriff can promote themselves as being a miracle cure guaranteeing re-election for both. On top of that, I'm sure there is some grants/funding/etc. that they gain from it. And all this is on top of the existing investigation for Nepotism, e.g. "appointing" (lets face it, it's not a hire) his family and top donators to the highest paying jobs in the S.O.
A lot of corruption is clearly pervasive in that department, even if their response could be, say, the result of exclusively hiring pusses.... which should have been noticed before this event.
This "faking stat" scheme isn't altogether unusual, in some ways it is pervasive in law enforcement - especially in metro places like Chicago and Detroit, and any other region using CompStats; they rely on the stats to push their re-election so they start forcibly making their departments alter the stats. I think there are some efforts to push them away from it. In some places (Chicago) it was so bad, there was even a case of decapitation in an abandoned warehouse, pieces of the body in a bag IIRC, that they ruled accidental or suicide (I forgot which) just to push homicide numbers low - a good percentage of clear homicides/rapes/etc. were also getting reclassified in such ways, anytime they thought family wouldn't be around to make too big of a stink. Anything that had any "doubt" would always get classified on the lowest offense. I wonder how many "children" aka teenagers were murdered in gang violence and re-classified as firearm "accidents" being two birds in a bush to their agenda.
Any time you tie any kind of crime stats coupled with law enforcement to re-election, it's just about a guarantee that you will fck up your county this way.
Now, even as corrupt as the leadership clearly is, I still have a hard time that multiple deputies could ever be standing by under orders 'to maximize murders" like "Kids are getting murdered, lets hope the number is higher if we wait". So I don't believe in that kind of conspiracy either (my earlier label with the link is somewhat sarcastic). However, if I were to guess, I think this is a result of a continuation of the policy to avoid charging any crimes at the school. If they believed in those few minutes that it could be fireworks, or maybe someone shooting from a vandalism perspective, or whatever; they didn't want to go in or have a LEO presence because it would increase the chance they would have to arrest someone and violate their special little 'greements to give free license to commit felonies. The deputy probably thought "nah, can't actually be kids getting murdered, whats the chances of that? maybe someone blasting up an empty room" and decided to stay out so the school could clean up whatever shit stain they wanted to polish.
That's my 2 cents and underlying suspicion at this point.
There is a lot of truth, I think, about the way crimes are reported, but I just can not realistically believe that the same people who manipulate stats for political gain, or even an artificially good policing record, would not want to squash a school shooter ASAP. That kind of crime is simply beyond the threshold of what can be swept under the rug, and any other action besides an immediate response will have the opposite affect of what they want.
There is a lot of truth, I think, about the way crimes are reported, but I just can not realistically believe that the same people who manipulate stats for political gain, or even an artificially good policing record, would not want to squash a school shooter ASAP. That kind of crime is simply beyond the threshold of what can be swept under the rug, and any other action besides an immediate response will have the opposite affect of what they want.
I don't think it's too hard to believe that they did. In the world of multiple "expectations" and procedures on how to handle something to avoid going into litigation... regardless of training level I can see people freezing up, or flat out refusing to "do their job" in order to satisfy those above them that want it done a certain way. Or the whole "pass the buck" thing of waiting until the boss gets there. Seeing some of the vitriol out there and the way people treat each other... I can see it happening every day. So sad.
Bailey Guns
03-09-2018, 18:48
I just read yesterday the Idaho County Sheriff's Office is starting to train staff/teachers of some schools in towns near here to carry guns during school hours. The first group of armed teachers will consist of about 30 volunteers with more classes to follow.
I hope I never hear about another school shooting. But if I do I hope I hear about a teacher shooting a person that was hell bent on killing as many people as possible and ending up the only one dead. Knowing the news it might have already happened 10 times this month but they don't report it. So even if its just a quick sound byte before a commercial break and the weather it will be nice to hear.
Florida prosecutors seeking death penalty in school shooting (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-prosecutors-seeking-death-penalty-in-school-shooting/ar-BBKaD9B)
MIAMI (AP) — The former student charged with killing 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School last month will face the death penalty, prosecutors said Tuesday.
Works for me. Society doesn't need him. No need to pay for his care and feeding.
Florida prosecutors seeking death penalty in school shooting (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-prosecutors-seeking-death-penalty-in-school-shooting/ar-BBKaD9B)
Works for me. Society doesn't need him. No need to pay for his care and feeding.
Lets hope he gets shot trying to escape. Save years of appeals.
And if he is convicted and then sentenced to death, don't look for an execution in less than 20 years. Just think about how many attorneys will be well paid by the taxpayers during the process. I like to think of this as being the rape of the taxpayers after the death of the innocents.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/execlist.html
Lets hope he gets shot trying to escape. Save years of appeals.
More likely killed by a fellow Lifer and I’d have zero problems with that.
And if he is convicted and then sentenced to death, don't look for an execution in less than 20 years. Just think about how many attorneys will be well paid by the taxpayers during the process. I like to think of this as being the rape of the taxpayers after the death of the innocents.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/execlist.html
36 men with .308/.30-06s could have that list checked off by noon.
Let the other convicts tag, bag, and clean up the mess.
36 men with .308/.30-06s could have that list checked off by noon.
Let the other convicts tag, bag, and clean up the mess.
Who is dreaming now?
Who is dreaming now?
https://i0.wp.com/www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SOTU-Americans-are-dreamers-too.jpg?fit=300%2C300
I'm still dreaming.
20 years of dreaming = Rip Van Winkle
hollohas
04-25-2018, 21:00
So, one of the pro 2A kids from Parkland, who has spent lots of time defending the 2A, recently went to shoot an AR for the first time with his Dad. He posted about his range trip online in an attempt to continue his pro 2A arguments.
He was reported to the school and was taken out of class and questioned by not one, not two, but three Broward County deputies. Without a parent present. And in his opinion, in a very aggressive manner.
He posted about that too.
Then the Broward County SO released a deputy's incident report of the contact with the kid. And it is laughable. The deputy that wrote it misspelled RIFLE twice. Seriously. And, he mixed the kid's parents' names up in the report as well.
Questioning a kid without parents. Writing reports filled with spelling errors and false information. That department has a serious lack of professionalism.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/29891/exclusive-broward-sheriffs-department-releases-daily-wire
On April 23, 2018 I was approached by the school security supervisor Mr. Greenleaf regarding a student that posted a video on social media of himself shooting a riffle. There were students concerned about the video.
The student was Kyle Kashuv w/m [birth date]. He was asked about the video and he stated the riffle [sic] was a friend of his [sic]. He stated he went shooting with his dad and he took a video and posted it on social media. He said he didn’t threaten anyone.
Kyle mother [name redacted] was contacted and she said she knew about the video and she confirmed Kyle statement about going with his dad to the gun range. She stated he’s a good kid and wouldn’t hurt anyone.
The video was taken down prior to the meeting.
Oh yeah, the video has not been taken down either.
Great-Kazoo
04-25-2018, 22:01
The school assumes the role of guardian while the child is in school.
We had an issue, close to 30 ago with our daughter. To say they over stepped their bounds (le & school district) would be an understatement. However after consulting with more than 1 attorney i was told there were grounds to move forward.
BUT..... the school admin will say they were acting on what they "thought to be" the best interest of the child. LE will say they acted on school authority request.
The question we were asked was. How much would we like to spend to pursue the questionable violations that were present. LE apologized, the school admin didn't give 2 shits.
The teacher who started the ball rolling took some admin leave and never apologized. She was "acting on her feels" just 1 more reason those in the education system have done so well brain washing public school kids.
hollohas
04-25-2018, 22:07
That sucks Kazoo. I am no fan of public schools.
This pro 2A Parkland kid seems to be doing a good job tearing apart the school via the interwebs and supportive media. I don't think he intends to make it a legal fight. But who knows.
School district shuts down information after Parkland shootings (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-district-shuts-down-information-after-parkland-shootings/ar-AAxcDgt)
The Broward County, Fla., school district's repeated, emphatic - and it turns out, false - statements that Nikolas Cruz had not been in a controversial disciplinary program fit a pattern of an institution on the defense and under siege.
Facing significant legal and political exposure over the Feb. 14 shootings at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the district has tried to keep information from the public and put out untrue and misleading statements, frustrating parents who say this is the time for maximum transparency.
The district is fighting in court against the release of school surveillance video. It flatly refused to provide any records regarding the shooting to the news media, in a possible violation of the state's open-records law. Superintendent Robert Runcie has blocked critics, including parents, from his Twitter account. More than two months after the shooting, a Broward sheriff's detective told a state commission on school safety that he was still waiting for the district to provide all of Cruz's disciplinary records.
The worst came last week, when Runcie acknowledged that his forceful denials that Cruz had been involved in the Promise program, which is intended to provide an alternative to the arrest of students for minor offenses, were wrong.
"It would appear that the district is more interested in protecting their programs than they are the students and teachers in our schools," said Ryan Petty, whose 14-year-old daughter, Alaina, was killed by Cruz during his rampage through the school. "As a father, I would ask the district to please be completely transparent so we can make sure this doesn't happen to any other children in any other schools in Florida."
School district spokeswoman Tracy Clark said the district has provided accurate information to investigators, the press and the public as fast as possible and "any suggestion that the district is not being forthcoming is either based on a misunderstanding or misinformation."
"The district continues to focus on responding in a timely and accurate manner to the unprecedented number of public records requests, media requests and subpoenas related to the tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School," she said in an email. "In addition, we have coordinated numerous interviews with employees as part of the various ongoing investigations. Both the State Attorney's Office, through the Broward Sheriff's Office, and the Public Defender's Office have been given complete copies of the records related to Nikolas Cruz that have been gathered to date."
Andrew Pollack, whose daughter Meadow was killed in the shooting, said he was surprised to learn that the district still has not provided all of Cruz's records to investigators. At a meeting of the state commission set up after the shooting to improve school safety, Pollack asked a Broward sheriff's detective whether all of the records had been provided.
"I believe that some of the items we are seeking to get from the school board, we have received some," Detective Zachary Scott said. "But I do not believe we've received everything yet."
"It caught us all off guard," Pollack said in an interview last week. "We didn't believe it. It's past two months now already. A lot of the people on the committee couldn't believe it."
From the school district, Pollack said, "there's no honesty at all."
BPTactical
05-13-2018, 19:40
School district shuts down information after Parkland shootings (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-district-shuts-down-information-after-parkland-shootings/ar-AAxcDgt)
Just like a cat in a litter box, frantically trying to cover a stinky turd.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5819289/Police-captain-49-told-deputies-stage-outside-Stoneman-Douglas-High-School-replaced.html
Female police captain, who stopped deputies from storming Parkland high school during Nicholas Cruz's deadly rampage, will be removed from her position
•Jan Jordan issued the command 'NEED PERIMETER' over her radio on Feb 14
•Police sources say she was in charge and that deputies had to follow her orders
•It was given at 2.32pm, 15 minutes before a SWAT team entered the school
•Gunman Nikolas Cruz, 19, had already fled in a crowd of panicked students
•Deputies say Jordan's decision was described as 'atrocious' by police sources
•Some said it may have cost some of the 17 lives that were taken
•Broward County Sheriff's Office said she 'asked if a perimeter had been set up'
The police captain who told sheriff's deputies to 'stage' and form a perimeter outside Stoneman Douglas High School as students and teachers were shot inside on February 14 is being replaced.
Jan Jordan, 49, was in charge of deputies who responded to the first calls of the shooting in Parkland, Florida, on February 14.
She will be removed from her position, which will instead be taken up by an officer of a higher rank, Fox News reported on Thursday.
The move to replace Jordan with a major was made as part of the city's re-evaluation of its contract with the Broward County Sheriff's Office.
Jordan, the 27-year force veteran, was issuing commands from her radio during the response to the shooting.
At 2.32pm, ten minutes after the first call to police that shots had been fired, the following command came from Jordan's radio: 'NEED PERIMETER'.
It was included in the police log from the day with her radio call sign, 17 Sierra 1.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/06/14/49EC79B500000578-5468425-image-a-1_1520346710233.jpg
Jordan has not spoken out since the shooting to confirm that it was her who sent the signal and Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel will not speak of it either.
Sources, however, said it was indeed her who gave the command and that it may have cost lives.
The order goes against the sheriff's department's policy to immediately enter the site of a shooting until the suspect is in custody.
When questioned over the command, a Broward County Sheriff's spokesman claimed she was 'asking' if a perimeter had been set up and not ordering for one to be put in place.
They said the command came after gunman Nikolas Cruz had left the building but there is no evidence that she knew he was no longer inside at the time she sent it.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/06/14/49AEEFB700000578-5468425-BSO_policy_says_that_law_enforcement_may_enter_the _scene_and_pur-m-13_1520346917908.jpg
'Captain Jordan asked if a perimeter had been established after the shooter left the building,' the spokesman told Fox News.
The SWAT team entered the school at 2.47pm, 15 minutes after the 'need perimeter' command was issued.
It was not until 3.02pm that the first mention of the gunman leaving the school was made.
'20 min delay from camera. He exited the building running south,' it said.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/06/14/49ECDDBA00000578-5468425-image-a-12_1520346793543.jpg
Jordan was hired by Israel when he was elected in 2012.
Beforehand, she spent decades working for police in Fort Lauderdale and she also worked briefly in Colorado.
She has not spoken about her involvement in the shooting.
When approached by an ABC reporter last week, she said: 'I don’t have any comments. Sorry, sir.'
When it emerged last week that officers had been told not to go in immediately, one law enforcement source told Fox News the decision may have cost lives.
'It’s atrocious. If deputies were staging it could have cost lives,' they said.
The Broward County Sheriff's Office has come under intense scrutiny over its handling of the massacre which killed 17 and left another 16 injured.
School resource officer Scot Peterson, who worked for the department, resigned a week after the shooting after it was revealed that he stayed outside as other officers went in to find Cruz, 19.
Peterson's actions were slammed as cowardly by a wave of critics which included President Trump himself.
Police Captain violates policy and orders a perimeter instead of movement to contact.
Theory: she didn't want to give the order which could result in the SWAT doing their policy-enforced duty to engage an active shooter. Why? Because women, typically and by nature, do not desire a fight and do not desire to order a man to fight.
Saw this sort of behavior in the Army, too. Usually out of wimpy males. Have heard stories of female officers and NCOs having the same issue. It comes down to mentality and willingness to engage in violence. Women aren't generally programmed to do so, and those who have overcome that natural barrier are generally awful to be around.
I hate the way that they seem to use "police" describing the Sheriff's Dept., but they are British.
I won't be happy until that PoS Sheriff is gone.
Former deputy Peterson a no-show at Parkland shooting hearing (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-deputy-peterson-a-no-show-at-parkland-shooting-hearing/ar-BBPKymn)
SUNRISE, Fla. - Scot Peterson, the disgraced Broward sheriff's deputy who hid in a stairwell during the Parkland school shooting, refused to appear Thursday before the state commission investigating the massacre.
Peterson's lawyer, Joseph DiRuzzo, stepped up the lectern in the commission's meeting room in Sunrise and made a brief statement.
"As you can tell, Mr. Peterson is not here," he said. "Mr. Peterson will not be testifying today. Earlier this morning, I filed a complaint with the court, seeking to quash this subpoena."
He said the complaint asked the court to declare the subpoena illegal and hold members of the commission liable.
"I have copies of the complaint here," he said. "I will leave them."
Bob Gualtieri, the Pinellas County sheriff who serves as chairman of the commission, said Peterson's refusal to appear came as a surprise, since his lawyer had said he would comply with the subpoena.
hollohas
11-16-2018, 06:33
So the deputy shows he's a coward once again.
DavieD55
11-16-2018, 16:36
Not really a coward. Deep seated with corruption would be more appropriate.
Zombie bump!
BSO fires former Parkland school deputy Scot Peterson, then takes him into custody
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article231167608.html
Peterson was charged with seven counts of neglect of a child, three counts of culpable negligence and one count of perjury in connection with the Feb. 14, 2018, mass murder of 14 students and three adults at the Parkland school by Nikolas Cruz.
Peterson?s action by inaction during the mass shooting has been castigated by survivors and law enforcement alike, including former Broward Sheriff Scott Israel. Israel was removed as Broward Sheriff by Gov. Ron DeSantis over the agency?s actions during the tragedy.
?The FDLE investigation shows former Deputy Peterson did absolutely nothing to mitigate the MSD shooting that killed 17 children, teachers and staff and injured 17 others,? FDLE Commissioner Rick Swearingen said in a statement. ?There can be no excuse for his complete inaction and no question that his inaction cost lives.?
[Shock]
We knew this part already but I am shocked they are taking action against LEO. So there may not be a Constitutional duty to protect, but if someone is harmed by LEO's inaction, that becomes a crime?
Do we want to set a precedent that it's okay for police officers to not do their jobs all the way up to the cost of human life?
Do we want to set a precedent that it's okay for police officers to not do their jobs all the way up to the cost of human life?
I agree with you 100% but that precedent has been in place for some time.
https://www.quora.com/Under-Castle-Rock-v-Gonzalez-the-Supreme-Court-of-the-United-States-ruled-police-have-no-duty-to-enforce-Does-that-mean-that-police-owe-citizens-no-duty-to-protect-and-serve
The precedent flows from the Due Process clause itself, and basically says that while the government may not deprive an individual of life without due process, this does not place a burden on the government to protect your life against someone else taking it. In 1989, SCOTUS stated, "Nothing in the language of the Due Process Clause itself requires the State to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens against invasion by private actors." Generally, the Due Process Clause does not provide an affirmative right to government aid, "even where such aid may be necessary to secure life, liberty, or property interests of which the government itself may not deprive the individual."
I know, that's why I can offer nothing further. The law says one thing, but the societal expectation is another. I guess the courts can figure it out. My guess is that he'll have a pretty easy defense and won't serve time. Were I his defense attorney, I'd say something along the lines of, "The librarian has no duty to protect civilians, and she also did nothing, so why wasn't she arrested?"
If a small dog tried to shoot up a school, this probably wouldn't be an issue.
I know, that's why I can offer nothing further. The law says one thing, but the expectation is another. I guess the courts can figure it out.
If a small dog tried to shoot up a school, this probably wouldn't be an issue.
[LOL]
I'm not going there!
If a man is paid to do a job, he needs to do the job. Can't do the job? Don't take the job.
BushMasterBoy
06-04-2019, 14:14
Policing is different in South Florida, I used to live there...
https://cbs12.com/news/local/video-trooper-hit-by-car-in-broward-county
BPTactical
06-04-2019, 14:35
There is the old mantra that LE have no "Duty to Protect".
The duty is owed to the public at large, not to an individual. In other words, police do not have a duty to be your bodyguard.
Warren vs. District of Columbia:
"In a 4-3 decision, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals affirmed the trial courts' dismissal of the complaints against the District of Columbia and individual members of the Metropolitan Police Department based on the public duty doctrine ruling that 'the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists'. The Court thus adopted the trial court's determination that no special relationship existed between the police and appellants, and therefore no specific legal duty existed between the police and the appellants."
With the amount of time the SRO had spent at the school (years) the argument can be made that there was a "Special Relationship" present and therefore, he had a duty to protect.
He had one duty at that school, and he willfully neglected that duty.
Enjoy your retirement asshole.
but yet we see the words, "To serve and protect" and many police vehicles. So do they or don't they "protect"? Do they get to decide when and where there "protect" citizens at large?
cmailliard
06-04-2019, 15:12
I agree Skip, I thought the exact same thing. Between Gonzales v. Town of Castle Rock and the recent judge ruling in the Parkland case, it does seem conflicting. Don't get me wrong I think he is a worthless POS, but the legal interpretation of these has been laid out. There are some charges against him that do not apply to this legal standing, like perjury. It may be a case of throw everything against and some will stick, some will get tossed but mostly a negotiation, you gotta start high.
Bailey Guns
06-04-2019, 15:45
but yet we see the words, "To serve and protect" and many police vehicles. So do they or don't they "protect"? Do they get to decide when and where there "protect" citizens at large?
They do...but in a general sense. Police can't be everywhere at once. Do you really want a police/government presence in your home or workplace watching over you all the time? I think not.
I agree Skip, I thought the exact same thing. Between Gonzales v. Town of Castle Rock and the recent judge ruling in the Parkland case, it does seem conflicting. Don't get me wrong I think he is a worthless POS, but the legal interpretation of these has been laid out. There are some charges against him that do not apply to this legal standing, like perjury. It may be a case of throw everything against and some will stick, some will get tossed but mostly a negotiation, you gotta start high.
I don't know about the perjury charge, but I'll be really surprised to see a conviction on any of the other charges. As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if the first thing the defense does isn't to file a motion to dismiss most of that.
BPTactical
06-04-2019, 15:49
I agree Skip, I thought the exact same thing. Between Gonzales v. Town of Castle Rock and the recent judge ruling in the Parkland case, it does seem conflicting. Don't get me wrong I think he is a worthless POS, but the legal interpretation of these has been laid out. There are some charges against him that do not apply to this legal standing, like perjury. It may be a case of throw everything against and some will stick, some will get tossed but mostly a negotiation, you gotta start high.
Would not
"the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large" in this instance be the population of the school?
I think regardless of previous interpretations this argument can be made.
BushMasterBoy
06-04-2019, 17:13
The elected officials have to have a designated scapegoat. Elected official "A" fires elected official "B". The public officials still feel the outrage from the voters, so they offer up a sacrificial lamb. If Al Qaeda did this, the Air Force would still be bombing their camps overseas. The SRO should have been a SPECOPS type guy, not some 60 y/o guy nearing retirement. Broward county is 2 million people and the sheriffs office has a 740 million dollar budget.
When you have an active shooter in a school, you need a BADASS super fit guy, not a near retiree. And that is the fault of the elected officials.
The elected officials will NEVER blame themselves.
Colorado is gearing up to put retired, volunteer vets into schools to walk the halls. It's called Operation Guardian Angel or something.
"The duty is owed to the public at large, not to an individual. In other words, police do not have a duty to be your bodyguard. "
One is an individual.... how many people constitute 'the public' ?
Scott Peterson is really turning out to be an unfortunate name, by the way.
I guess I missed it when Israel was removed as Sheriff. That guy was as slimy as they come, and I'm glad he finally got yanked.
I guess I missed it when Israel was removed as Sheriff. That guy was as slimy as they come, and I'm glad he finally got yanked.
I keep hoping they find grounds to arrest and charge him as well.
Would not in this instance be the population of the school?
I think regardless of previous interpretations this argument can be made.
I think part of the issue is with "public at large" vs individual is that individuals end up being harmed. I agree that's clearer in cases where individuals expect a superior level of protection than the greater public (i.e. personal security). We do that for politicians because of an enhanced threat.
Here's another example from NYC where LE hid from an attacker while he got stabby on a subway. Another case of "public at large" but the "no duty to protect" argument succeeded in dismissing the civil suit.
https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/
Lozito says a grand-jury member later told him Howell (NYPD LEO) admitted on the stand*** that he hid during the attack because he thought Gelman had a gun.
But city lawyers are arguing that the police had no legal duty to protect Joseph Lozito, the Long Island dad stabbed seven times trying to subdue madman Maksim Gelman ? a courtroom maneuver the subway hero calls ?disgraceful.?
***LEOs had actually tried to take credit for the apprehension and were recognized as heroes by NYPD. Only to later admit they had lied.
Outcome...
http://gothamist.com/2013/07/26/subway_stabbing_victims_suit_agains.php
A man who was brutally stabbed by Brooklyn subway slasher Maksim Gelman two years ago had his negligence case against the city dismissed in court yesterday, despite the fact that two transit officers had locked themselves in a motorman's car only a few feet from him at the time of the attack.
[snip]
The city, meanwhile, claimed that the NYPD had no "special duty" to intervene at the time, and that they were in the motorman's car because they believed Gelman had a gun (skip: THEY HID IN THE CONDUCTOR'S CAB BEHIND A LOCKED DOOR!!!). And Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Margaret Chan has sided with the city, noting that there was no evidence the cops were aware Lozito was in danger at the time.
They thought the suspect, who they knew had murdered four people, had a gun in a subway car which is a danger to the public at large. In NYC guns are WMDs! It's obvious the LEOs knew the general public was at risk, but not the victim who is a member of the general public?
Turned out to be a knife and the inaction of LEOs resulted in Lozito getting slashed in the head.
BG had previously killed the four people in the 24 hours prior. So it's not unreasonable to assume that given LEO's inaction he would have continued to harm and murder members of the public had Lozito not have heroically subdued the BG by himself.
Now this was a civil case and the Peterson charges are criminal. But it doesn't seem likely that individual LEOs could have criminal liability over inaction/failure to protect and departments/cities not have civil liability with a lesser standard. These two things seem to be at odds.
Scott Peterson is really turning out to be an unfortunate name, by the way.
Not as bad as being Mrs. Scott Peterson.
Maybe we should ban Scott Petersons? For the children...
I've heard from one talking head that the charges they're hoping will stick are basically to make cowardice a crime.
Good on them.
2 more deputies fired after shooting at Florida high school
https://www.apnews.com/e8e616f81fec41c08d179426f24b2064
PARKLAND, Fla. (AP) — Two additional deputies have been fired as a result of an internal affairs investigation into the agency’s response to the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland that killed 17 people, the Broward County sheriff said Wednesday.
At a brief news conference, Sheriff Gregory Tony said deputies Edward Eason and Josh Stambaugh were fired Tuesday for their inaction following the Feb. 14, 2018, shooting. He did not provide details but said a lengthy report would be released later.
“In essence, it was neglect of duty. We lost 17 people,” Tony said.
Two other deputies were fired earlier this month for neglect of duty. One of those was school resource officer Scot Peterson, who was also arrested on charges of child neglect, culpable negligence and perjury. Peterson’s lawyer has said he will fight the charges.
The sheriff said no action was taken on three other deputies who were involved in the investigation.
[snip]
So Sheriff Israel and now a total four deputies have all been term'd (if I'm reading this correctly). Petersen is the only one charged.
The "neglect of duty" wasn't because "we lost 17 people," that is a horrible outcome but you just hang that on the responders, it was due to specific actions that I'm sure would outrage the country if we knew the full details. And those details were hidden while gun control legislation was passed. This is how Florida got ERPO (red flag) which inspired the same "law" here.
After chaotic handling of Parkland, airport mass shootings, BSO loses its accreditation
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article232140297.html
The loss of accreditation — a voluntary certification sought by law enforcement agencies — won’t affect BSO’s operations in a major way. But it is a further blow to the agency’s prestige at a time when a new command staff, including a new sheriff, are dealing with a string of failures and questionable conduct by deputies.
The Commission for Florida Law Enforcement Accreditation (CFA) cited BSO’s mishandling of the Parkland school shooting last year and the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport shooting in 2017 as reasons for its decision in a 13-0 vote last week.
Both incidents were marked by chaotic and disorganized responses from the sheriff’s office. Seventeen people died at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting on Feb. 14, 2018, including some who were waiting for rescue as BSO deputies took cover, put on body armor and struggled to find the building where the massacre had taken place. Then-Broward Sheriff Scott Israel, a Democrat, defended his agency but was suspended from office by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis.
I can't read the article on the linked website due to them demanding that I disable my ad blocker.
Is the fact that a Dem sheriff (that tried to avert blame and responsibility for helping create the problem of allowing a repeat offender to legally purchase a firearm) was suspended by a Rep a problem? Or is the fact that the gov. had to take that action the problem and their party affiliation was just supplemental info?
I can't read the article on the linked website due to them demanding that I disable my ad blocker.
Is the fact that a Dem sheriff (that tried to avert blame and responsibility for helping create the problem of allowing a repeat offender to legally purchase a firearm) was suspended by a Rep a problem? Or is the fact that the gov. had to take that action the problem and their party affiliation was just supplemental info?
I think *maybe* they are trying to signal that this could be political in spite of there being serious apolitical problems with the department.
To me it's relevant because this turd went straight to narrative as soon as he could to attack Americans rather than fix his own shit. Had he not have done that, the (D) wouldn't matter to me personally.
Parkland father interrupts Trump's speech, is removed from House gallery (https://www.foxnews.com/us/parkland-father-removed-from-house-gallery-for-interrupting-trumps-speech)
The father of a Parkland shooting victim was removed from the House chamber gallery Tuesday night for shouting about gun control during President Trump’s State of the Union address.
Gun control activist Fred Guttenberg briefly interrupted the president after Trump vowed to “always protect your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms,” as long as he is in the White House. The moment was not visible on the television broadcast of the event, though viewers could hear a man shouting before both Vice President Mike Pence and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi appear to glance up at the gallery for a moment.
Guttenberg was one of Pelosi's guests for the State of the Union. She seemed to make "calm down" gestures with her hands while saying something to herself as she peered up into the gallery after the moment.
Guttenberg’s daughter Jaime was one of 16 children murdered in the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., in 2018. She was 14 years old.
Guttenberg has become something of an advocate against gun violence in recent years and is a regular on Capitol Hill. His organization, called Orange Ribbons for Jamie, is dedicated to "supporting programs that were important to her, as well as those dedicated to pursuing common sense gun safety reforms."
Guttenberg apologized after the speech.
"Tonight was a rough night," he tweeted. "I disrupted the State of the Union and was detained because I let my emotions get the best of me. I simply want to be able to deal with the reality of gun violence and not have to listen to the lies about the 2A as happened tonight.
"That said, I should not have yelled out. I am thankful for the overwhelming support that I am receiving. However, I do owe my family and friends an apology. I have tried to conduct myself with dignity throughout this process and I will do better as I pursue gun safety."
This was not the first viral moment Guttenberg had in the nation's Capitol. He attended the confirmation hearings for Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who was also at Trump's address Tuesday, and attempted to shake the then-judge's hand. On a day that his confirmation hearing had been interrupted several times by protesters, Kavanaugh did not recognize Guttenberg and seemed to ignore the handshake.
White House Principal Deputy Press Secretary Raj Shah later disputed that characterization, noting that security also did not recognize Guttenberg and promptly stepped between the two men.
"As Judge Kavanaugh left for his lunch break, an unidentified individual approached him. Before the Judge was able to shake his hand, security had intervened," Shah wrote on Twitter.
'Tonight he stood up to a president that believes peace and the second amendment are mutually exclusive and was removed'
— David Hogg
Guttenberg disagreed with Shah's account, noting that he had been in the hearing room the entire day and was introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.
Many spoke out in defense of Guttenberg's comments on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, despite his apology. David Hogg, who attended the same school as Guttenberg's daughter, took to Twitter to join the hashtag "#ImWithFred."
"[Guttenberg] lost his daughter in the Parkland shooting and has worked every day since to end gun violence," Hogg said. "Tonight he stood up to a president that believes peace and the Second Amendment are mutually exclusive and was removed."
Others who joined in on the "#ImWithFred" hashtag included Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., Democratic National Committee Lawyers Council Chair Andrew Weinstein, filmmaker Morgan J. Freeman, Rep. Ted Deutch, D-Fla., and others.
Guttenberg also tweeted about gun violence earlier in the day, unloading on Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., in response to the senator tweeting a Bible verse.
"On the day of my distress I call to you, for [sic] you will answer me," Rubio tweeted.
"[Rubio], are you calling to me? I will answer," Guttenberg posted. "You are still pathetically weak. We are 10 days from the two-year mark of my daughter's murder. You have still done nothing about gun violence. As you are choosing to be irrelevant, please remove yourself from the Senate."
I'm sorry about his daughter, but his actions are misguided. It has become that anything spoken that the left doesn't like is labeled a "lie" and the speakers are attacked as being nazis/fascists. In his "apology", he states that Trump lied about 2A in the SOTU. That's only true if you believe the actions of the BATFE regarding bump stocks were not defended by Trump.
I'm generally confused by the comment that peace and the 2A are mutually exclusive.
That can happen when ''the truth according to me" is the standard used.
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