View Full Version : Shooting at School in Parkland, Florida
Active scene, 20 reported wounded.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/live-news-coverage-from-cbs-news/ar-BBmYvYY
Apparently they have an ID on the shooter and are searching for him. Hospitals in the area have been notified to expect mass casualties.
There are a lot of crazy people out. Guns don't kill people kill people. Prayers sent to the victims.
SouthPaw
02-14-2018, 15:05
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5392559/Multiple-victims-Florida-school-shooting.html
Prayers sent that way.
Looks like they have a suspect in custody
Apparently the shooter was well known to the students and had multiple 'issues'.
KevDen2005
02-14-2018, 15:25
Apparently the shooter was well known to the students and had multiple 'issues'.
Didn't see that coming.
This sickens me.
Prayers to the students and parents for their loss.
Maybe the teachers union should look at the number of student terrorists they are creating in their petri dish, I mean classrooms.
BushMasterBoy
02-14-2018, 15:35
I used to live in that county, it is densely populated. This is the county the show "Cops" started first appeared. South Florida is a crime ridden area with lots of drugs imported from South America. It is wonderful weather this time of year. Another sad story for us to read of.
Pulling the fire alarm to get people outside days long before Vegas. I think it was one of the very next shootings after Columbine.
wctriumph
02-14-2018, 15:48
Big school, 3200 students.
Sickening.
Prayers up.
NeedMoreAmmo
02-14-2018, 16:26
What a fucked up thing to do.
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 16:27
ugh [emoji20]
sad for those affected, killed and injured. [emoji22][emoji26]
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According to the Miami Herald, law enforcement officials identified Nicolas de Jesus Cruz as the shooter. Cruz, 19, is a former student who one teacher said was not allowed on campus with a backpack. From the Herald:
“We were told last year that he wasn’t allowed on campus with a backpack on him,” said math teacher Jim Gard, who said the former student suspected in the shootings had been in his class last year. “There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus.”
Gard says he believes the school administration had sent out an email warning teachers that the student had made threats against other in the past and that he should not be allowed on the campus with a backpack. Another student interviewed on the scene by Channel 7 said the student had guns at home
https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-shooting-high-school-parkland-fla-multiple-injuries-reported-200936418.html
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 16:33
News reporting that shooter was still at large, but may have left the area, NBC6 in Miami reported. The gunman was described as a white male, 5 feet 8 inches tall. A parent says shooter pulled the fire alarm so staff and kids came out and then he started shooting them. I think he got the idea of snipping at a large crowd from the las vegas shooter, that way he could take out as many innocent staff and kids and not even enter the school and have a better chance of getting away..... )-: I want to throw up
video of shots being fired from inside the building.
Extremely graphic in nature (no blood/guts though).
https://twitter.com/siddonsdan/status/963900432501432321
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Sad day. Prayers for all those affected, hurt and killed.
I'm not sure if I'm more Disturbed by that video, or the amount of likes it's getting.
I'm not sure if I'm more Disturbed by that video, or the amount of likes it's getting.
Likes don't mean they approve, just acknowledging they watched and letting their friends know to watch it.
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 17:42
I'm not sure if I'm more Disturbed by that video, or the amount of likes it's getting.
No different than liking a post on facebook. Twitter just doesn't have emotion options for their likes like facebook does.
I heard an interview with some kid that was there. He said some students wanted to stay and video the incident on their phones and he had to convince them that they needed to flee.
Thanks for explaining the likes situation.
This is terrible. 17 dead?
I cannot imagine being a parent of a child in the school. Gut-wrenching.
Yup, 17 so far.
Teachers who want to CCW should be allowed to CCW.
Where’s this kids parents and what did they know?
Yup, 17 so far.
Teachers who want to CCW should be allowed to CCW.
Amen
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 18:51
This guy's instagram profile has him wearing a MAGA hat,
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750887_168063137307682_9160642114071114689_n.jpg ?oh=baaa5d7aa7dfb879c8399fa0839436bb&oe=5B23CB09
but this turned up today.
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27912574_10213252341880787_520430604206205153_o.jp g?oh=29f4ef20f19c6fee2d31ec1fde11ebe8&oe=5B238DC8
looks like a nutjob trying to make Trump supporters and Trump look bad.
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 19:31
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/e17325995b3e987a70b9e6ddb8d90f03.jpg
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Schools = Free Kill Zones
Liberals/leftists deny reality.
Great-Kazoo
02-14-2018, 21:12
I wondered the same thing. Seems he was an orphan so who knows where his biological parents are. He was adopted by the Cruz family, both adoptive parents are dead. The adoptive mother, Lynda Cruz, passed just November last year. https://www.thedailybeast.com/nick-cruz-parkland-florida-shooting-stoneman-douglas-high-school and https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/nicolas-nikolas-nick-cruz-florida-school-shooter-gunman-instagram/
Ah the old Michael Brown photo ploy. Show him as a geeky school kid.
Thoughts going out to the survivors and families. Very sad.
Where does a 19 year old get handguns? Read an article, with pics, about ANTIFA affiliations (great, these tards are having an effect). Known to be trouble but still gets on school property?
It's all the guns fault.
CoGirl303
02-14-2018, 22:57
came across a very good article that I believe pinpoints a lot of what is wrong with men that do these kinds of shootings.
https://byrslf.co/thoughts-on-the-vegas-shooting-14af397cee2c
Thoughts going out to the survivors and families. Very sad.
Where does a 19 year old get handguns? Read an article, with pics, about ANTIFA affiliations (great, these tards are having an effect). Known to be trouble but still gets on school property?
It's all the guns fault.
if they can locate the source, I'm all for charging them w/ accessory to murder. The penalties for giving guns to minors who then go do this type of thing must become so severe it thwarts even the dumbest of criminals.
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This guy's instagram profile has him wearing a MAGA hat,
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750887_168063137307682_9160642114071114689_n.jpg ?oh=baaa5d7aa7dfb879c8399fa0839436bb&oe=5B23CB09
but this turned up today.
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27912574_10213252341880787_520430604206205153_o.jp g?oh=29f4ef20f19c6fee2d31ec1fde11ebe8&oe=5B238DC8
looks like a nutjob trying to make Trump supporters and Trump look bad.
I'll just not take any of this stuff at value. I fucking doubt what sort of stupid gimmicky hat he wears or how a 19 year old registered to vote in a non election year has any bearing on their mental state or is the actual reason they want on a killing spree.
I fucking hate this sort of bullshit. Arguing about fucking political affiliation when murdering a bunch of people. Fuck the division others try to sow in the population. It's that division that has made politics so fucking toxic in the first place.
I wondered the same thing. Seems he was an orphan so who knows where his biological parents are. He was adopted by the Cruz family, both adoptive parents are dead. The adoptive mother, Lynda Cruz, passed just November last year. https://www.thedailybeast.com/nick-cruz-parkland-florida-shooting-stoneman-douglas-high-school and https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/nicolas-nikolas-nick-cruz-florida-school-shooter-gunman-instagram/
I'd put the sudden death of a parent figure as being a more likely cause for this than their baseball cap.
came across a very good article that I believe pinpoints a lot of what is wrong with men that do these kinds of shootings.
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I have come across the "men's mental health" in some different, non shooting related, articles. There is a lot going on there. Shooting innocents in not a positive response but there is a growing awareness.
It was not the gun, political party, hat, race, death of a parent, or any other factor aside from the real presence of evil that exists in our world, that evil has many faces, names, and strategies. And CoGirl303, punishing someone for the crime of accessory to murder whose only potential “crime” was violating an unconstitutional regulation is asinine and would do nothing to prevent this or any future heinous evil act from occurring.
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hurley842002
02-15-2018, 05:48
It was not the gun, political party, hat, race, death of a parent, or any other factor aside from the real presence of evil that exists in our world, that evil has many faces, names, and strategies. And CoGirl303, punishing someone for the crime of accessory to murder whose only potential “crime” was violating an unconstitutional regulation is asinine and would do nothing to prevent this or any future heinous evil act from occurring.
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Jeffrey Lebowski
02-15-2018, 06:40
I'll just not take any of this stuff at value. I fucking doubt what sort of stupid gimmicky hat he wears or how a 19 year old registered to vote in a non election year has any bearing on their mental state or is the actual reason they want on a killing spree.
I fucking hate this sort of bullshit. Arguing about fucking political affiliation when murdering a bunch of people. Fuck the division others try to sow in the population. It's that division that has made politics so fucking toxic in the first place.
I have to agree. It is trying to rationalize and explain crazy.
Worse, it tries to insinuate that others who might share some minor characteristic are therefore likely to do similarly. Of course not.
Not to mention in many states it is legal to make a private party sale of a handgun to anyone over 18. It is similarly legal for a person over 18 but under 21 to possess the same. It's entirely possible the seller broke no laws.
The 21 and up requirement only applies to federally regulated sales by an FFL holder, or in states that have specifically prohibited it. I can't find any regulation in FL that prohibits this, but I haven't researched very thoroughly yet.
Of course, if the seller had reason to believe the purchaser planned to use the firearm in a nefarious manner, then that is another story. However, the vast majority of these murderers have become quite skilled at hiding their intentions and insanity when they want to.
GilpinGuy
02-15-2018, 08:54
Crazy knows no boundaries, including political ones. It's fun to point at lefties who want to regulate your sugar intake but allow recreational pot smoking, but this kid (I know he was 19) was just evil as shit. It is rather interesting that most mass murdering shooters are lefties, though. But taking political shots after this is low.
There are lots of evil people in the world. That's why one's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, even though it is infringed upon more and more every day.
CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 08:57
FBI warned of potential for this kid to shoot up a school. As usual they were ignored.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/15/report-fbi-warned-potential-school-shooter-named-nikolas-cruz-september/
I'll just not take any of this stuff at value. I fucking doubt what sort of stupid gimmicky hat he wears or how a 19 year old registered to vote in a non election year has any bearing on their mental state or is the actual reason they want on a killing spree.
I fucking hate this sort of bullshit. Arguing about fucking political affiliation when murdering a bunch of people. Fuck the division others try to sow in the population. It's that division that has made politics so fucking toxic in the first place.
I have to disagree. The political climate in this country is a hotbed right now. Anarchists, whie supremacists, white nationalists and NAZI's on one side. Antifa, BLM and all the other nonsense on the other side.
Apparently he was a member of some sort of Syrian resistance faction here in America. He was also wearing a shirt reflecting communism.
We've long seen political movements used as a motive for killing. It's how WWI was started. It's how WW2 was started.
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CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 08:59
https://twitter.com/politicalshort/status/963912814313140224
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Great-Kazoo
02-15-2018, 10:05
Apparently he was a member of some sort of Syrian resistance faction here in America. He was also wearing a shirt reflecting communism.
We've long seen political movements used as a motive for killing. It's how WWI was started. It's how WW2 was started.
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Like that lifestyle or message a shirt sends it's still one right to express them self. I wear a shirt with a gun picture on it, doesn't make me a mass murderer or planning one. Which is the opposite of the equations thinking when they see a pop tart that "resembles" a gun.
This communism shirt pic you guys mention if it's same one I'm thinking of, was not actually the same guy. As usual a lot of disinformation on both sides right now.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232986
Not Guns, DRUGS - Specifically, SSRIs
2018-02-15 08:46 by Karl Denninger
The usual sycophants are screaming for more gun control immediately, of course.
They are intentionally and maliciously ignoring this:
“I know she had been having some issues with them, especially the older one. He was being a problem. I know he did have some issues and he may have been taking medication.
"Rage Monster" medication?
You know, the same general class of medication that the Columbine shooters -- along with a huge, in fact ridiculously-high percentage of all school shooters between Columbine and today -- were on?
They're called SSRIs and they're dangerous when taken by people under 25.
Why isn't the first line of inquiry finding out if this guy was on a class of drugs -- prescribed -- that are known to cause this behavior in a small percentage of people under the age of 25? If he was why aren't we holding the physician who prescribed them accountable as having prescribed a drug known to cause violence to someone in the known risk class -- and charging him or her as an accessory to murder before the fact?
I have long held and written in these pages that these drugs should only be prescribed to those under the age of 25 for those in residential facilities where they can be monitored 24x7. For reasons we do not understand these drugs stop having that side effect in full-fledged adults (although they still are implicated in potentiating suicides), but in teens and young adults they are dangerous in a small but non-zero percentage of those who use them in that they turn the user into a homicidal maniac.
They're handed out like candy for emotional disturbances and there is a very high correlation between people who do these things and their prescribed use. These drugs may well be useful in an appropriate subset of the population but it simply must not include those under the age of 25 who are not institutionalized.
Psychotropic medication, specifically in this case SSRIs, are dangerous in those under the age of 25 in that there is a known small but real risk of them potentiating a "Rage Monster" when given to people in this age group. This risk is on the label and prescribing information but we still hand this crap out to kids and near-kids and there appears to be no good way to know who will have that sort of reaction to consuming them.
This must be stopped right damn now. How many rage monsters do we have to create before we ban the prescribing of these drugs to that age group and start charging physicians and other 'professionals' who write said scripts with being accessories before the fact to acts of violence perpetrated by their patients if they prescribe them anyway?
While it is not yet confirmed that Cruz was on one of these drugs it's a decent bet he was and you can also bet the media will not dig into it and the FBI and other authorities will try to keep that information from coming out, if it is in fact the case.
This we must not tolerate.
Second, since we're on the subject of the medical "scam" system in this nation and its likely complicity in this event may I note that in the time between the shooting and this morning more Americans died from the medical monopolists in preventable "errors" and in fact more die this way every single day. Worse, they die after being asset-stripped, in many cases to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet not one person is ever charged in such deaths.
Why not? Those who prescribe SSRIs to teens are not Marcus Welby, they're Josef Mengele -- as are those in the medical system who do things like performing an optional surgery on someone with congestive heart failure, pancreatitis and cirrhosis instead of first draining the tens of pounds of fluid from that person's abdomen, stabilizing those other conditions and demanding the person stop drinking and thus grossly reduce the risk of complications -- complications that in the instant case I'm familiar with did happen, nearly killed said person and ran up a six-figure hospital bill they sent to the taxpayers because they "decided" to do the original operation despite actual knowledge of these co-morbidities and the grossly-increased risk they presented.
When it comes to guns there are 50,000 gun laws on the books. The Second Amendment says every one of them is unconstitutional but we don't care; we pass them anyway. They will never stop someone from committing an act like this for the simple reason that someone willing to commit murder does not care how many other laws they violate first. Adam Lanza killed his mother to get her gun; he clearly did not give a crap about gun laws and neither have any of the others who have done similar things.
Finally, let me note this: Every single cop who showed up did not do so with a baseball bat; they all came with guns. If we are not going to stop prescribing these drugs to teens and young adults then the only other alternative is for damn near every adult in every school and other "soft target" like this must be armed and prepared to offer meaningful resistance if such a jackass shows up.
You do not stop a madman with a gun with harsh language just like you don't stop a charging grizzly bear by talking with it.
You shoot him.
BushMasterBoy
02-15-2018, 11:08
Act of domestic terrorism. The solution: Add more security.
Will this be popular as a solution ? NO!
Will it be expensive ? Yes...
CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 11:32
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232986
Dr. Peter Breggin has pinned the tail on the donkey a long time ago, but the problem is no one is listening. Big pharmacy and big money are more important.
http://www.breggin.com
Adam Lanza was all doped up when he shot up Sandy Hook.
but politicians on both sides? *crickets*
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hollohas
02-15-2018, 11:33
I've heard this a lot..."why does this KEEP happening?". And "what can we do to make our kids feel safe?" Or "keep our kids safe?"
Every school shooting and loss of life, especially young lives, is tragic. But the country needs to keep these things in perspective. School shootings are not at some sort of epidemic level. Our children are pretty darn safe.
Per the Dept of Education, there are around 100k public elementary and secondary schools in America. Another 33k private schools. (2013)
In those schools are 50.7 million students (2017)
The Department of Education numbers show on average 15 homicides annually in elementary and secondary schools.
15 out of 50.7 million.
It may be happening more. Or just seem likes it's happening more. But it isn't epidemic. Far from it. If our children are "living in a world in which they have to worry about school shootings", we need to do a better job teaching them about the real world.
Does any of this mean I don't think we should protect our schools? Hell no. I think we should encourage and train teachers and school administrators to be protectors of our children. That's the best way to ensure safety. But like most of us who carry, hardly any of them will need to use that training.
Aloha_Shooter
02-15-2018, 11:43
Y'know, with the red hair and expression on his face when the cops had him down on the ground, this guy reminded me of the Joker character on "Gotham" ... anyone else get a chill down their back looking at him?
73508
I've heard this a lot..."why does this KEEP happening?". And "what can we do to make our kids feel safe?" Or "keep our kids safe?"
Every school shooting and loss of life, especially young lives, is tragic. But the country needs to keep these things in perspective. School shootings are not at some sort of epidemic level. Our children are pretty darn safe.
Per the Dept of Education, there are around 100k public elementary and secondary schools in America. Another 33k private schools. (2013)
In those schools are 50.7 million students (2017)
The Department of Education numbers show on average 15 homicides annually in elementary and secondary schools.
15 out of 50.7 million.
It may be happening more. Or just seem likes it's happening more. But it isn't epidemic. Far from it. If our children are "living in a world in which they have to worry about school shootings", we need to do a better job teaching them about the real world.
Does any of this mean I don't think we should protect our schools? Hell no. I think we should encourage and train teachers and school administrators to be protectors of our children. That's the best way to ensure safety. But like most of us who carry, hardly any of them will need to use that training.
I've made this same argument before, but in retrospect I don't think it's the correct way to go about it.
Would you make the same argument about terror attacks? They hardly ever happen, so don't worry about it?
hollohas
02-15-2018, 12:11
I've made this same argument before, but in retrospect I don't think it's the correct way to go about it.
Would you make the same argument about terror attacks? They hardly ever happen, so don't worry about it?You missed my last paragraph. We, as a society, should put protections in place at schools. Like CCW, I'd rather have those protections and not need them, then need them and not have them.
But, all I have been hearing from politicians, media, interviews, pundits, regular people commenting on every form of media, is that these school shooting "KEEP" happening. That they are out of control. That our kids shouldn't have to be scared to go to school. That we shouldn't be scared to send them to school....
My point is simply this...school shootings are NOT COMMON and we should stop characterizing them as such.
There are lots of debiting things that happen in life that are not common, but that doesn't make it irrational to fear them.
hollohas
02-15-2018, 12:57
There are an average of 47 lightning fatalities each year. Roughly 1 in 7 million people.
School shooting homicides...1 in 3.4 million students, annual average.
Our population is twice as likely to be killed by lightning than our kids are to be shot and killed at school.
Have you ever heard anyone claim that "we shouldn't have to live in fear of being killed by lightning?". No, because that'd be irrational.
We shouldn't teach our kids to fear this super uncommon event either. Nor should we as parents fear it. Teach them how to respond, sure. Teach them to be scared, nope. They need to know how unlikely it is to happen.
I think we're talking in slightly different directions. Meaning that I've been interpretting what you're saying differently than the way you meant it.
.455_Hunter
02-15-2018, 13:18
During one of these future events, what happens when another student pulls his own contraband weapon and drops the spree killer in the hallway?
Lifetime Felon, Presidential Medal of Freedom, or both?
hollohas
02-15-2018, 13:23
I think we're talking in slightly different directions. Meaning that I've been interpretting what you're saying differently than the way you meant it.I got that feeling too. I'm not terribly articulate.
Some things that could be done.
Add a guard to each school over a certain size. These guards don’t have to work for the school, we already have tax payer trained and funded security it’s called the police. Maybe we need to expand the police force but so be it, maybe it’s time. Use volunteers such as retired LEO’s in smaller schools.
Do what we currently do to large public buildings, airports and crowded events already, screen them to get on the property. We have choke/check point screening for airports, court houses and sports venues. Nobody says it would easy or cheap, but, we proved it can be done and it can be effective. Why is it easier to get a gun into a school full of kids than it is to get one inside Coors Field? I don’t mind saying, back in the good old days we could just walk off and on campus at will, those days are gone. A better way to use the pot taxes and lottery money they’re always bragging about. It’s time to build a wall………around the kids.
It is pointless to keep changing gun laws to make things more illegal than they already are and that have a useless effect on people that haven’t stepped foot on school property in 20 years. If the libs could wave their magic wand and make all guns illegal today, they would still be finding caches of guns and ammo 50 or 100 years from now. There are as many guns as there are cars in this country and we don’t need a barn to hide guns.
I’m leaving for work now so flame away, I’ll be back latter to see how far under the bus I am.
Zundfolge
02-15-2018, 13:41
There are an average of 47 lightning fatalities each year. Roughly 1 in 7 million people.
School shooting homicides...1 in 3.4 million students, annual average.
Our population is twice as likely to be killed by lightning than our kids are to be shot and killed at school.
I think you have that backward, 1 in 7 is half of 1 in 3.5. But yeah, still pretty rare.
The common element between people being struck by lightning and people being shot: People. If we ban people, BOTH problems will go away.
Militia says school shooting suspect was member (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking-news/militia-says-school-shooting-suspect-was-member/ar-BBJbhvT)
The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.
Jordan Jereb told The Associated Press on Thursday that his group wants Florida to become its own white ethno-state. He said his group holds “spontaneous random demonstrations” and tries not to participate in the modern world.
Jereb said he didn’t know Cruz personally and that “he acted on his own behalf of what he just did and he’s solely responsible for what he just did.”
He also said he had “trouble with a girl” and he believed the timing of the attack, carried out on Valentine’s Day, wasn’t a coincidence.
Nineteen-year-old Cruz has been charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder in the shooting.
Wow, did I just hear the sheriff say he wanted to be able to grab accused mentally ill off the streets and drag them in for evaluation???
WTF is wrong with this sheriff? Civil liberties and the very likely potential for abuse.
FBI warned of potential for this kid to shoot up a school. As usual they were ignored.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/15/report-fbi-warned-potential-school-shooter-named-nikolas-cruz-september/
I have to disagree. The political climate in this country is a hotbed right now. Anarchists, whie supremacists, white nationalists and NAZI's on one side. Antifa, BLM and all the other nonsense on the other side.
Apparently he was a member of some sort of Syrian resistance faction here in America. He was also wearing a shirt reflecting communism.
We've long seen political movements used as a motive for killing. It's how WWI was started. It's how WW2 was started.
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I agree with your disagreement, the political aspects cannot be ignored.
However,
Anarchists, whie supremacists, white nationalists and NAZI's on one side. Antifa, BLM and all the other nonsense on the other side. These groups are all leftists and as such they are ALL on the SAME side. They ALL stand against The Constitution along with the (D) party and a goodly number of so-called Republicans, they are just the more radical and violent factions within the democrat party.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-15-2018, 14:58
Wow, did I just hear the sheriff say he wanted to be able to grab accused mentally ill off the streets and drag them in for evaluation???
WTF is wrong with this sheriff? Civil liberties and the very likely potential for abuse.
The dude said he was going to shoot up schools. He wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school, before he was expelled for the third time. He made threats. If this isn't the kind of person who we can bring in for an eval we are never going to address the 'soft' side and and we will lose on the 'hard' side.
Some of you must really have issues about how crazy you look to other people if you are that afraid of guys in white coats with butterfly nets coming for you.
The dude said he was going to shoot up schools. He wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school, before he was expelled for the third time. He made threats. If this isn't the kind of person who we can bring in for an eval we are never going to address the 'soft' side and and we will lose on the 'hard' side.
Some of you must really have issues about how crazy you look to other people if you are that afraid of guys in white coats with butterfly nets coming for you.
He wasn't talking about the shooter, but when asked about future threats. Being able to drag someone in for interrogation based on accusations...
How about investigate, get evidence, then get a warrant before grabbing people off the street.
Some of you must really have issues about how crazy you look to other people if you are that afraid of guys in white coats with butterfly nets coming for you.
http://youtu.be/g-eafUBULWA
Does anyone think the facts matter anymore? Does anyone think this is about policy and saving lives? As has been the posted, the FBI (the highest LE agency in the country) knew about the monster and did nothing. The school wouldn't even let him carry a backpack for fear of what might be in it!
It's 100% political at this point.
Gun control is a political weapon to disarm the opposition. Gun rights are a political weapon to defend against the opposition.
Go look at the socials, there is zero middle ground. Just like Clinton vs. Trump in 2016. It's two countries, negotiating the loss of the other side.
ETA: Spelling
So many laws broken, none of which will deter someone hellbent on mass murder, yet the left keeps clamoring for more laws expecting a different outcome. I think that's the definition of insanity. Need to keep those insane people away from firearms.
I agree with your disagreement, the political aspects cannot be ignored.
However, These groups are all leftists and as such they are ALL on the SAME side. They ALL stand against The Constitution along with the (D) party and a goodly number of so-called Republicans, they are just the more radical and violent factions within the democrat party.
What are some examples of actual far right bad guys?
What are some examples of actual far right bad guys?
Timothy McVeigh?
Anyone else? That's one guy, are there any groups?
The big picture here is the value we place on human life. Society has seriously decayed to a disgusting low. Many of us who have been around for a while have seen the steady decline in the value of human life. When the human person lost its value and became nothing more than a commodity, the world became a breeding ground for these sorts of behavior and attacks on human life.
The big picture here is the value we place on human life. Society has seriously decayed to a disgusting low. Many of us who have been around for a while have seen the steady decline in the value of human life. When the human person lost its value and became nothing more than a commodity, the world became a breeding ground for these sorts of behavior and attacks on human life.
It started with the legalization of abortion...or at least that is where the ball really picked up steam.
It started with the legalization of abortion...or at least that is where the ball really picked up steam.
How does the significantly reduced crime rate connected to the legalization of abortion play into this metric?
Anyone else? That's one guy, are there any groups?
ISIS, Al Qaeda.
Batteriesnare
02-15-2018, 17:49
How does the significantly reduced crime rate connected to the legalization of abortion play into this metric?
Someone read Freakonomics I see...
I think his point was that the value of an individual life, and the subsequent loss that was felt was more significant until we collectively began killing the unborn as a routine action in our society. The fact that the children who are most likely to be aborted (or perhaps more accurately stated, the mothers of children who are most likely to have an abortion) are also the mothers whose children are more likely to develop into people engaging in criminal activity is independent from the societal value that was once placed upon individual life.
Someone read Freakonomics I see...
I think his point was that the value of an individual life, and the subsequent loss that was felt was more significant until we collectively began killing the unborn as a routine action in our society. The fact that the children who are most likely to be aborted (or perhaps more accurately stated, the mothers of children who are most likely to have an abortion) are also the mothers whose children are more likely to develop into people engaging in criminal activity.
Bingo. With abortion banned, low income mothers are forced to have children they cannot afford to raise, and the children are more likely to seek out gang activity.
Bailey Guns
02-15-2018, 17:57
ISIS, Al Qaeda.
You're kidding, right?
You're kidding, right?
You don't get much more conservative than wishing for things to be like "the good old days" in the 1500s.
Right-wing politics involves...claiming either that social or economic inequality is natural and inevitable or that it is beneficial to society. Right-wing ideologies and movements support social order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics#Social_stratification
Bailey Guns
02-15-2018, 18:02
I would say most far-right groups would likely fall into the anti-government types...some militia groups and such.
Bailey Guns
02-15-2018, 18:02
You don't get much more conservative than wishing for things to be like "the good old days" in the 1500s.
Whatever, dude.
BushMasterBoy
02-15-2018, 18:11
I had a picture of the St. Valentines day massacre in another thread, but it was deleted. I tried to establish liaison with the FBI before the September 11 incident, but was ignored. The general attitude of the central government, is just have fun! At our expense! Now I am sick and dying from chronic beryllium disease. Everybody is just ignoring all the signs. Rant over.
You don't get much more conservative than wishing for things to be like "the good old days" in the 1500s.
Right? There are definitely a few members that I wonder if they aren't just closeted Muslims.
The concept of conservatism is being resistant to change. Progressives can't wait to change. Being pressured to act the way people used to act, is just as irritating being pressured to change everything in the world in hopes of realizing some fantasy utopia. Trying to use politics to mandate behavior in either direction is equally as shitty.
JohnnyDrama
02-15-2018, 18:50
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232986
Nice one!
I had a picture of the St. Valentines day massacre in another thread, but it was deleted. I tried to establish liaison with the FBI before the September 11 incident, but was ignored. The general attitude of the central government, is just have fun! At our expense! Now I am sick and dying from chronic beryllium disease. Everybody is just ignoring all the signs. Rant over.
Blaming the drugs and not the guns goes against the mantra "Better living through modern chemistry". Science holds the answers.
Does anyone think the facts matter anymore? Does anyone think this is about policy and saving lives? As has been the posted, the FBI (the highest LE agency in the country) knew about the monster and did nothing. The school wouldn't even let him carry a backpack for fear of what might be in it!
It's 100% political at this point.
Gun control is a political weapon to disarm the opposition. Gun rights are a political weapon to defend against the opposition.
Go look at the socials, there is zero middle ground. Just like Clinton vs. Trump in 2016. It's two countries, negotiating the loss of the other side.
ETA: Spelling
Absolutely correct. You can't blame the "child", their parents (might offend), or the intervening state institutions.
CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 19:09
He wasn't talking about the shooter, but when asked about future threats. Being able to drag someone in for interrogation based on accusations...
How about investigate, get evidence, then get a warrant before grabbing people off the street.
Listening to Sean Hannity today, some psychologist said that the big thing she was afraid of was the ability for medical professionals and school staff to differentiate between someone with a mental illness who wasnt capable of something like this and someone with a mental illness who is capable of something like this.
Very challenging and could lead to dangerous legal precedents, unfair labeling, unfair restriction of rights, and so on and so forth.
Hannity is all in favor of former military, former leo personnel as armed security at schools, doing a security risk assessment, creating choke points into schools, security cameras, id badges for students, no one but parents, teachers, staff and students allowed in unless vetted and authorized beforehand. Treating schools like govt buildings.
We have the resources to make it happen and lock down every school in America...BUT...
what happens when these shooters realize the schools are now locked down from open access and they adjust their targets to unsecured venues? or they sit outside waiting for them to come out to get on the buses? or go to the playground? or they hit an outdoor graduation? Sit in a tree and open fire on the stands at a high school football game? a baseball game? a track event?
Beach fronts during spring break or during summer? parades, city square fairs and festivals? Carnivals, indoor and outdoor malls, more outdoor concerts, low security events and whatever else I can't think of right now, because they will adapt to the paths of least resistance to inflict the most damage.
As messed up as it is, I think school shootings are just the beginning unfortunately. [emoji20]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Listening to Sean Hannity today, some psychologist said that the big thing she was afraid of was the ability for medical professionals and school staff to differentiate between someone with a mental illness who wasnt capable of something like this and someone with a mental illness who is capable of something like this.
Very challenging and could lead to dangerous legal precedents, unfair labeling, unfair restriction of rights, and so on and so forth.
Hannity is all in favor of former military, former leo personnel as armed security at schools, doing a security risk assessment, creating choke points into schools, security cameras, id badges for students, no one but parents, teachers, staff and students allowed in unless vetted and authorized beforehand. Treating schools like govt buildings.
We have the resources to make it happen and lock down every school in America...BUT...
what happens when these shooters realize the schools are now locked down from open access and they adjust their targets to unsecured venues? or they sit outside waiting for them to come out to get on the buses? or go to the playground? or they hit an outdoor graduation? Sit in a tree and open fire on the stands at a high school football game? a baseball game? a track event?
Beach fronts during spring break or during summer? parades, city square fairs and festivals? Carnivals, indoor and outdoor malls, more outdoor concerts, low security events and whatever else I can't think of right now, because they will adapt to the paths of least resistance to inflict the most damage.
As messed up as it is, I think school shootings are just the beginning unfortunately. [emoji20]
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe idea of using retired LEOs as school security guards was proposed by the NRA after Sandy Hook. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Of course the idea of having a gun in the school freaked out the libtards. 'Cuz guns are bad. They can't figure out that it's the person with the gun and their intent that's the problem...but they'll trust the government to have the guns.
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CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 19:58
The idea of using retired LEOs as school security guards was proposed by the NRA after Sandy Hook. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Of course the idea of having a gun in the school freaked out the libtards. 'Cuz guns are bad. They can't figure out that it's the person with the gun and their intent that's the problem...but they'll trust the government to have the guns.
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No, they have it figured out but it goes against their M.O. and they'll be damned if they agree with Republicans to any such thing, even if it costs innocent kids their lives.
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The idea of using retired LEOs as school security guards was proposed by the NRA after Sandy Hook. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Of course the idea of having a gun in the school freaked out the libtards. 'Cuz guns are bad. They can't figure out that it's the person with the gun and their intent that's the problem...but they'll trust the government to have the guns.
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People curse the warrior, until the enemy is at the gate.
GilpinGuy
02-15-2018, 20:47
This is interesting:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/grandmother-stops-school-shooting/
hollohas
02-15-2018, 21:05
I think you have that backward, 1 in 7 is half of 1 in 3.5. But yeah, still pretty rare.Thank you for the correction.
CoGirl303
02-15-2018, 21:09
This is interesting:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/grandmother-stops-school-shooting/
thats crazy. Glad the Grandma reported it. That would have been really really bad had he carried that out.
I hope he can get some help, but judging by the felony charges, he wont be seeing society any time soon.
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hollohas
02-15-2018, 21:11
I believe these things would be less common if we were raising our boys to be real men.
Not entirely unrelated to my comment above...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5398119/Freshman-15-reveals-Nikolas-Cruz-spared-life.html
...he was on his way to the bathroom on Wednesday hen he stumbled upon Cruz loading up one of his weapons.
'You’d better get out of here. Things are gonna start getting messy,' McKenna said Cruz told him, despite the fact that the two young men did not know one another.
McKenna then rushed out of the building
Bailey Guns
02-15-2018, 21:27
^^ It's hard to fault a 15 year old kid for getting scared and running away. But a little, irrational part of me does anyway.
^^ It's hard to fault a 15 year old kid for getting scared and running away. But a little, irrational part of me does anyway.
He could have at least said something or told someone.
hollohas
02-15-2018, 21:57
^^ It's hard to fault a 15 year old kid for getting scared and running away. But a little, irrational part of me does anyway.A little.
But boys have stepped up in the past. Here's a story I will always remember...
May 1998, just turned 17 year old Jacob Ryker gets shot twice (22 in the lung and 9mm in the hand) and still takes out school shooter.
Even though I was only 15 when this happened, I knew at the time that's how men should act, even young men.
Courage is a virtue but I'm not sure it's encouraged with boys and young men much anymore. And if boys aren't raised that way, most won't just magically learn it as men. There are mass shooting examples in which grown men didn't step up either. One in particular in our neck-of-the-woods.
These mass murders would be a lot smaller in almost every case if more men had the balls to fight back.
Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome fear and act anyway.
Listening to Sean Hannity today, some psychologist said that the big thing she was afraid of was the ability for medical professionals and school staff to differentiate between someone with a mental illness who wasnt capable of something like this and someone with a mental illness who is capable of something like this.
Very challenging and could lead to dangerous legal precedents, unfair labeling, unfair restriction of rights, and so on and so forth.
Hannity is all in favor of former military, former leo personnel as armed security at schools, doing a security risk assessment, creating choke points into schools, security cameras, id badges for students, no one but parents, teachers, staff and students allowed in unless vetted and authorized beforehand. Treating schools like govt buildings.
We have the resources to make it happen and lock down every school in America...BUT...
what happens when these shooters realize the schools are now locked down from open access and they adjust their targets to unsecured venues? or they sit outside waiting for them to come out to get on the buses? or go to the playground? or they hit an outdoor graduation? Sit in a tree and open fire on the stands at a high school football game? a baseball game? a track event?
Beach fronts during spring break or during summer? parades, city square fairs and festivals? Carnivals, indoor and outdoor malls, more outdoor concerts, low security events and whatever else I can't think of right now, because they will adapt to the paths of least resistance to inflict the most damage.
As messed up as it is, I think school shootings are just the beginning unfortunately. [emoji20]
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They have- remember the church shootings?
There are quite a number of churches that have now been having their ushers trained in security measures: non-verbal asessments, startegies for shooter scenarios, plans to put in place for specific situations. Strategos is a security business that flies all over the states and trains church staff in providing security for the parishoners.
We have a mental illness problem combined with the media glorifying it and the politicians grand standing on it.
So take someone with a mental illness and then give them the idea that they can be famous and almost immortalized in a narrative.
This is what is probably one of the biggest factors in the uptick.
Now factor in we have gone from a “sticks and stone may brake my bones but words will never hurt me.” And switch to a “everybody is a victim and deserves a medal.”
Taken from another site and not even about the FL shooting. Sad all around.
KevDen2005
02-15-2018, 23:08
He had his first court appearance today. Hopefully the State of Florida carries out a sentence swiftly and justly.
He had his first court appearance today. Hopefully the State of Florida carries out a sentence swiftly and justly.
Wishing but not holding my breath.
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 07:49
He had his first court appearance today. Hopefully the State of Florida carries out a sentence swiftly and justly.
I noticed he said "yes ma'am" when she [Judge or Magistrate] asked if his name was Nicholas Cruz.
how do you go from murdering 17 people in cold-blood to saying "yes ma'am" to an authority figure?
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KevDen2005
02-16-2018, 07:50
I noticed he said "yes ma'am" when she [Judge or Magistrate] asked if his name was Nicholas Cruz.
how do you go from murdering 17 people in cold-blood to saying "yes ma'am" to an authority figure?
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Just because you're a piece of crap murderer doesn't mean you weren't brought up with a few values....
Wait...no that's not it.
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 08:12
I've said it before.. my respect for liberty and freedom ends at the social ills caused by Cluster-B. Truly soulless, lacking in empathy and higher emotion (love/guilt/sympathy, etc.). They arise from incurable, brain defects, and not from "vis a vis" abuse as some idiots want to believe. The condition is verifiable by FMRI. But, because of our fake morality we'll never do anything about it. If we institutionalized them, all mass shootings would disappear; as it's about as close to a resume requirement for a mass shooting as you can get. Something in the neighborhood of 60-70% of all crime would disappear (from violent to petty), as would the majority of all the other ills facing any society (insane domestic/divorce issues, CPS/neglect, etc.).
I give these people the same empathy, respect and love as they give to anyone else. Fucking zilch. They are walking androids who don't give to shits, always have been. Society's con artists. And it may be an unpopular view, but if they were all put in a penal colony or worse, I wouldn't feel even a tinge of guilt, remorse, or sympathy. Their costs to society are so deep, and the places we could go in their absence... if whatever genetic causes were eliminated from the pool, our society would be so, so far ahead.
But what if one of them was my family member! They say.
Uh, then I'd do this for society if it would let me.
I reserve my empathy and sympathy only for those people who express it themselves, and for the weak whom are unable.
I don't have empathy/sympathy for walking predatory androids. Strangers or relation, I don't care.
I have to admit, I had no idea what "Cluster-B" even was and had to go look it up. Very interesting.
Cluster B personality disorders
Cluster B personality disorders are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior. They include antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder.
Antisocial personality disorder
Disregard for others' needs or feelings
Persistent lying, stealing, using aliases, conning others
Recurring problems with the law
Repeated violation of the rights of others
Aggressive, often violent behavior
Disregard for the safety of self or others
Impulsive behavior
Consistently irresponsible
Lack of remorse for behavior
Borderline personality disorder
Impulsive and risky behavior, such as having unsafe sex, gambling or binge eating
Unstable or fragile self-image
Unstable and intense relationships
Up and down moods, often as a reaction to interpersonal stress
Suicidal behavior or threats of self-injury
Intense fear of being alone or abandoned
Ongoing feelings of emptiness
Frequent, intense displays of anger
Stress-related paranoia that comes and goes
Histrionic personality disorder
Constantly seeking attention
Excessively emotional, dramatic or sexually provocative to gain attention
Speaks dramatically with strong opinions, but few facts or details to back them up
Easily influenced by others
Shallow, rapidly changing emotions
Excessive concern with physical appearance
Thinks relationships with others are closer than they really are
Narcissistic personality disorder
Belief that you're special and more important than others
Fantasies about power, success and attractiveness
Failure to recognize others' needs and feelings
Exaggeration of achievements or talents
Expectation of constant praise and admiration
Arrogance
Unreasonable expectations of favors and advantages, often taking advantage of others
Envy of others or belief that others envy you
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Great-Kazoo
02-16-2018, 08:20
I noticed he said "yes ma'am" when she [Judge or Magistrate] asked if his name was Nicholas Cruz.
how do you go from murdering 17 people in cold-blood to saying "yes ma'am" to an authority figure?
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Re medicated
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/
As information about the perpetrator emerges, a relative confides to a newspaper that the “troubled youth” who committed the mass murder was on psychiatric medications – you know, those powerful, little understood, mind-altering drugs with fearsome side effects including “suicidal ideation” and even “homicidal ideation.”
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 09:20
Re medicated
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/
Fox News just reported he has confessed to the killings stating he heard voices before the shooting.
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Jesus, stupid from all directions.
Kentucky governor blames violent video games, movies, not guns for school shootings
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/16/florida-school-shooting-kentucky-governor-blames-violent-video-games-movies/344336002/
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 09:47
well since he was medicated...here's his defense in a nutshell (pun intended).
https://breggin.com/judge-prozac-turned-teen-into-murderer/
Jesus, stupid from all directions.
Kentucky governor blames violent video games, movies, not guns for school shootings
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/16/florida-school-shooting-kentucky-governor-blames-violent-video-games-movies/344336002/
at least its a nice break from the constant "guns are to blame" regurgitated by the delusional left.
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No, it isn't. Not at all. Politicians trying to restrict things that they know nothing about, because they don't like them is criminally stupid, no matter from which side of the aisle.
Ban schools. Problem solved.
[Sarcasm2]
Is "mental illness" the new secular way of saying evil? In the past there was really only one solution and it didn't involve pretending these people were okay enough to live next to us just not own a piece of metal.
But again, the facts don't matter. The goalpost for gun rights is now "no one better do anything bad with a gun." So if even if we dumped gazillions into mental health we would still have a crazy or two that slips through the cracks and the result would eventually be bans. One of the major political parties in this country just does not want us owning guns for any reason. They openly communicate this but never have to explain it as the conversation is framed around these exceptional and tragic events.
Like I said, this is now a political issue and politics (democracy) will be used to resolve it, short of another Civil War. If folks were honest we could at least talk about why certain people are uncomfortable with gun ownership and how that fits in with America. I think it expose how there are two countries inside the US with completely different values and possibly lead to good solutions.
The real and decent solution, as we all know, is to have good people with guns to oppose evil with an equal/greater amount of violence. This is precisely why Libs don't want it (yes, I really believe those at the top are this sick and calculating). If evil is thwarted their goalposts are meaningless and they lose the ability to disarm their political opponents.
And this is why they are going after semi-auto rifles... Rifles win wars. The AR is the modern rifle. It's exactly why the media pimps mass shootings with AR-15s and messages that anyone who wants to be relevant should get one and shoot up a school. How many school shootings with AKs? AKs have been cheaper and widely available but not advertised by media as the weapon of choice.
The monster got his name in lights and, also thanks to Libs, we can't impose the death penalty as a disincentive to others.
Great-Kazoo
02-16-2018, 10:42
With the usual hysterics regarding 's Guns and AR-15 specifically. Imagine what we'd be dealing with EO wise since the vegas shootings. IF HRC had won
Is "mental illness" the new secular way of saying evil? In the past there was really only one solution and it didn't involve pretending these people were okay enough to live next to us just not own a piece of metal.
But again, the facts don't matter. The goalpost for gun rights is now "no one better do anything bad with a gun." So if even if we dumped gazillions into mental health we would still have a crazy or two that slips through the cracks and the result would eventually be bans. One of the major political parties in this country just does not want us owning guns for any reason. They openly communicate this but never have to explain it as the conversation is framed around these exceptional and tragic events.
Like I said, this is now a political issue and politics (democracy) will be used to resolve it, short of another Civil War. If folks were honest we could at least talk about why certain people are uncomfortable with gun ownership and how that fits in with America. I think it expose how there are two countries inside the US with completely different values and possibly lead to good solutions.
The real and decent solution, as we all know, is to have good people with guns to oppose evil with an equal/greater amount of violence. This is precisely why Libs don't want it (yes, I really believe those at the top are this sick and calculating). If evil is thwarted their goalposts are meaningless and they lose the ability to disarm their political opponents.
And this is why they are going after semi-auto rifles... Rifles win wars. The AR is the modern rifle. It's exactly why the media pimps mass shootings with AR-15s and messages that anyone who wants to be relevant should get one and shoot up a school. How many school shootings with AKs? AKs have been cheaper and widely available but not advertised by media as the weapon of choice.
The monster got his name in lights and, also thanks to Libs, we can't impose the death penalty as a disincentive to others.
LIKE
More from Denninger this morning
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232997
Scott Israel Must Be Removed From Office
2018-02-16 11:04 by Karl Denninger
Right now.
And if he is not, then every citizen in Broward County has a duty to flip the bird to every Sheriff's Deputy, and Scott Israel himself, along with shunning not only him but every member of his family and every employee in the Sheriff's Office.
Why?
Because of this:
"If you're an elected official, and you want to keep things the way they are, and not do things differently, if you want to keep the gun laws as they are now, you will not get re-elected in Broward County,” Israel said Thursday night to cheers, as locals grieved the 17 victims killed a day earlier.
**** you Scott Israel, you piece of disgusting dog****.
The cops were called to Cruz's home 36 times in the six years from 2010 to 2016. These calls were, in many instances, for domestic violence.
And much like the calls before – which were placed due to reasons ranging from the brothers beating each other to Cruz, at the age of 12, threating his mother and calling her a “useless b****” – law enforcement left without taking any further action.
But he was never arrested for any of this.
May I remind you that even a misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence is a bar to purchasing a firearm legally.
Had the piece of **** Scott Israel done his ****ing job and in just one of the 36 instances arrested, booked and charged Cruz with even a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence -- crimes that were evident and visible on three dozen occasions -- he would not have been able to pass an FBI background check and buy a firearm. A single guilty plea or conviction on even one such charge would have gotten Cruz flagged as a prohibited person in the NICS database.
So who's responsible for Cruz buying that AR-15 in a perfectly-legal transaction?
SCOTT ISRAEL, THE SHERIFF OF BROWARD COUNTY, IS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ABILITY OF CRUZ TO WALK INTO A GUN STORE AND BUY THE FIREARM WITH WHICH HE KILLED 17 KIDS.
Now, having failed to discharge his state constitutionally-required duty on three dozen separate occasions, many if not most of which took place while he has been Sheriff (he was elected in 2012), this jackass has the termerity to claim that we need more "gun control."
No, what we need are Sheriffs that do their ****ing job and arrest violent people when they find them in the middle of committing violent, criminal acts.
The fact that SCOTT ISRAEL did not do so is the reason -- the single, sole, factual reason -- that Cruz was able to legally buy a firearm instead of being listed as a prohibited person in the NICS database.
SHERIFF SCOTT ISRAEL MUST BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY ONE OF THOSE 17 DEATHS. HE HAS BEEN GROSSLY DERELICT IN HIS LEGALLY-MANDATED DUTIES NOT ONCE, NOT TWICE, BUT REPEATEDLY SINCE 2012 THROUGH HIS WILLFUL AND INTENTIONAL REFUSAL TO ENFORCE THE LAW -- LAWS THAT, IF ENFORCED, WOULD HAVE PREVENTED CRUZ FROM LEGALLY BUYING HIS WEAPON.
Period.
Karl sure sounds like a dummy.
Exactly what kind of "further action" does this guy expect out of police for ->
And much like the calls before – which were placed due to reasons ranging from the brothers beating each other to Cruz, at the age of 12, threating his mother and calling her a “useless b****” – law enforcement left without taking any further action.
Exactly what kind of "further action" does this guy expect out of police for ->
Perhaps you should ask him directly.
The link is iat the top of the original post.
ETA: I'd like to see how that turns out.
He banned me from commenting after the first time I disagreed with one of his articles.
So a guy that just wants to yell his opinion, but never discuss anything?
buffalobo
02-16-2018, 12:38
So a guy that just wants to yell his opinion, but never discuss anything?Duh, internet.[emoji41]
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
SouthPaw
02-16-2018, 13:02
FBI was informed that Florida shooter Nikolas Cruz spoke of his desire to kill people and was stockpiling guns SIX WEEKS before massacre - and did not investigate or tell Miami office
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401101/FBI-knew-Nikolas-Cruz-stockpiling-weapons.html#ixzz57IcghnMj
A guy also contacted the FBI directly, five months ago, about a post in a YouTube comment saying he wanted to become a professional school shooter. His user name is nickcruze.
Apologize for any inaccuracies, pulling from memory and posting mobile.
SouthPaw
02-16-2018, 13:07
A guy also contacted the FBI directly, five months ago, about a post in a YouTube comment saying he wanted to become a professional school shooter. His user name is nickcruze.
Apologize for any inaccuracies, pulling from memory and posting mobile.
I got you covered:
The first tip came back in September when they were alerted to comment made by YouTube user 'Nikolas Cruz' proclaiming his desire to be a 'professional school shooter.'
At the same time he was posting photos to his public social media account which showed off an arsenal of weapons, including multiple semi-automatic guns.
YouTube vlogger Ben Bennight alerted the FBI to a comment shared by Cruz on one of his videos back in September, when the boy wrote: 'I'm going to be a professional school shooter.'
Just so everyone is on the same page, that blogger contacted his local field office and two agents came out to see him (the blogger) the next day.
Thanks for the assist Skip
I find it unfathomable that many people in this country have expectations that their government can protect them. Our government just reeks of incompetence.
ETA: School district to tear down Stoneman Douglas High building where attack took place (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/school-district-to-tear-down-stoneman-douglas-high-building-where-attack-took-place/ar-BBJe10s)
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - Students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High won't have to return to the three-story building that was the site was the deadliest school shooting in Florida history.
The school district plans to tear down and then replace the freshman building on campus, Broward Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie told Sun Sentinel Editorial Page Editor Rosemary O'Hara Friday.
"Parents and students have resoundingly told me they can't go back into that building regardless of what we do," Runcie said. "The other piece I heard is that that building will be used as evidence in any type of legal process that goes forward, so we won't be able to access the building for a while anyway."
Runcie said the school district plans to announce this weekend when it will re-open the school and how it will accommodate students and staff.
The building held 900 students, and the school is already at capacity, so the district will need to come up with a plan to serve all students on campus. Parkland is a popular place to live in Broward County and most schools are at or over capacity.
Runcie said the district also plans to erect a memorial around the site the current building.
He said he plans to talk with legislative leaders Friday about possible funding for a replacement building. Runcie and School Board members Robin Bartleman and Donna Korn visited the building after it was cleared.
"The three of us just wanted to hold hands and say a prayer. Just looking at that building and talking about it now, I have goosebumps out to my head," Runcie said. "I don't know how teachers, students could get back in that building. I don't even know how we're going to open the whole campus, period."
Emotional people will emote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeA7HOF27xY
I don't know if this has been posted yet. But here is a good video on what we should know so far. Better than the news by far.
Martinjmpr
02-16-2018, 18:47
A rare glimmer of truth - From the Washington Post no less!
no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.d89bf70aedb3)
By Wednesday night, the top suggested search after typing “18” into Google was “18 school shootings in 2018.”
It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong.
Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings.
Take, for example, what it counted as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.
But since Everytown began its tracking, it has included these dubious examples — in August 2013, a man shot (http://clarksvillenow.com/local/police-investigation-at-northwest-high-school/) on a Tennessee high school’s property at 2 a.m.; in December 2014, a man shot (http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/17/shooting-at-stanton-heights-elementary-school/) in his car late one night and discovered the next day in a Pennsylvania elementary school’s parking lot; in August 2015, a man who climbed (http://abc13.com/news/20-year-old-arrested-after-bizarre-alleged-shooting-bagpipes-incident-at-school/953170/) atop the roof of an empty Texas school on a Sunday morning and fired sporadically; in January 2016, a man (https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/gun-goes-off-outside-northwest-community-hs) in an Indiana high school parking lot whose gun accidentally went off in his glove box, before any students had arrived on campus; in December 2017, two teens in Washington state (http://www.heraldnet.com/news/someone-shot-up-a-marysville-school-on-new-years-eve/) who shot up a high school just before midnight on New Year’s Eve, when the building was otherwise empty.
GilpinGuy
02-16-2018, 20:43
I just learned that there have been 288 killed in the last 10 years in school shootings (0 to 24 year olds, college included). But the same age group had more than 56,000 suicides in the last 10 years. The MSM is focused on the wrong problem.
Firehaus
02-16-2018, 20:54
I just learned that there have been 288 killed in the last 10 years in school shootings (0 to 24 year olds, college included). But the same age group had more than 56,000 suicides in the last 10 years. The MSM is focused on the wrong problem.
Why isn’t the MSM concerned with medial errors?
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php
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Why does something have to be common place before people are upset about it?
"Man beats his wife to death in front of their 5 children." -some made up headline.
What's the big deal? Out of that family of 7, only one person died.
I understand that it was fashionable to point out the statistics in the face of defending 2A rights when this first started happening. We need to be careful not to be too cavalier about the numbers. The entire student body, and staff, and immediate family members are all likely irreversibly damaged by being present during the murder of others, and possibly narrowly escaping their own. The tragedy certainly expands well beyond the body count. I don't want to down play suicides either, as many of those families will take them just as hard as school shootings. More than one terrible thing can happen at once, but it doesn't mean that any of them deserve less attention. That's my current position anyway.
KevDen2005
02-16-2018, 21:12
Why does something have to be common place before people are upset about it?
"Man beats his wife to death in front of their 5 children." -some made up headline.
What's the big deal? Out of that family of 7, only one person died.
I understand that it was fashionable to point out the statistics in the face of defending 2A rights when this first started happening. We need to be careful not to be too cavalier about the numbers. The entire student body, and staff, and immediate family members are all likely irreversibly damaged by being present during the murder of others, and possibly narrowly escaping their own. The tragedy certainly expands well beyond the body count. I don't want to down play suicides either, as many of those families will take them just as hard as school shootings. More than one terrible thing can happen at once, but it doesn't mean that any of them deserve less attention. That's my current position anyway.
Well under the 20 percent mark therefore an acceptable loss. The family is still combat effective.
KevDen2005
02-16-2018, 21:18
9 News posted an article about how the 18 shootings is not accurate. Kind of impressive, especially coming from them. Not sure if this same article was already posted.
http://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/verify-the-18-school-shootings-in-2018-statistic-isnt-entirely-true/73-519852508
Jeffrey Lebowski
02-16-2018, 21:30
Why isn’t the MSM concerned with medial errors?
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php
73525
Pharmacist humor. Except not really.
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 21:42
Y'know, with the red hair and expression on his face when the cops had him down on the ground, this guy reminded me of the Joker character on "Gotham" ... anyone else get a chill down their back looking at him?
73508
he has that same crazy, lost in space look in his eyes that James Holmes had.
The problem with the medications is probably not so much the medications (they can have a side effect of suicidal idealization) but rather that they are also prescribed to treat people who cannot be treated. Socio's are often prescribed SSRI's + anti-anxiety + anti-seizure medication (the latter is not for seizures). This doesn't treat them, it just usually makes them more complacent or harder to identify as an evil little shit, but doesn't change who they are. And our society is growing more of them, statistically. The self-esteem movement starting in the 90's, coupled with the "everyone is a celebrity" social media scene has indirectly lead to the increase. So rather than institutionalize people we know are violent and lacking all empathy, we give them medication and think the band-aid will hold. Then, blame the medication.
It's not video games, it's not guns, it's not medication. It's not abused children, or family circumstances, or bullying.
It's nature and nurture, people with a genetic predisposition coupled with our "self-first" society that is pumping shitbird socio's out at a rate approaching 5% of the population, whom have a permanently broken prefrontal cortex, and contrary to the liberals "every bad person must have a tragic story" logic; the only finger that can be pointed is on society coddling children, and the court's protecting them under varying precedents going back to institutionalization.
For the record, most Asian countries have virtually no Cluster-B/Anti-social personality disorder/sociopath. But they also don't give a crap about your self esteem. For this reason, science leans towards nurture being the more determining factor, although it does have genetic progression.
ETA: And some Asian countries (e.g. China) also tend to execute their bad actors pretty early on, so there is that possibility as well.
40-50 years ago psych docs weren't doping kids up the way they are today. (30 years ago I was in the 2nd grade...damn I feel old).
If alcohol can alter a persons state of mind and behavior, I can only shudder at the thought of what some of these medications are doing to these kids minds.
Mental illness is very real, and Dr. Breggin has spent years researching the effects of anti-psychotics and their effects on young people's minds. The chemicals in these things are so damaging.
But I agree with a lot of what you said too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hollohas
02-16-2018, 22:04
Why does something have to be common place before people are upset about it?
Why can't someone point out the fact that it's irrational to demand sweeping legal changes based on a statistically insignificant number of deaths without being characterized as not being upset?
I am very upset when any child is killed. I read about children being killed every single day in the news. Some are killed in horrific ways that actually brings tears to my eyes. Humans can be downright evil. That will always be the case. But it sure appears that the vast majority of this country gets far more upset at the weapon used than they do at the actual fact a child was killed.
When one side wants to argue that an event or events are reason enough to demand MAJOR legal changes that cut right to the heart of this country's founding principals and chooses to focus on one particular cause for these events, then yeah, it's ok to point out that their reasoning is flawed by using facts and percentages. And that perhaps their hypocrisy shows their outrage is a bit less than genuine.
Yes, it's upsetting. But the fact remains that it's extremely uncommon. If we as a society don't demand changes for something that happens a lot, then how can we possibly justify demanding changes for something that happens almost never?
PS - I seriously can't understand why we even have this conversation each time this happens. If we as a nation were truly concerned with children losing their lives, there are a lot more significant causes we should be talking about.
Half as many people died texting while driving compared to guns.
Murder by gun:
1477
Texting while Driving:
769
KevDen2005
02-16-2018, 22:34
Half as many people died texting while driving compared to guns.
Murder by gun:
1477
Texting while Driving:
769
In some cases it may be extremely hard to actually determine if someone was texting immediately prior to a crash. And is this the death of the person texting only or all crashes involving a driver texting and a fatality in one of the involved vehicles?
Grant H.
02-16-2018, 22:41
I just learned that there have been 288 killed in the last 10 years in school shootings (0 to 24 year olds, college included). But the same age group had more than 56,000 suicides in the last 10 years. The MSM is focused on the wrong problem.
Suicide is part of the "Plan". Given the responses to the Logan Paul video from Japan, our "modern society" has obviously accepted and elevated the act of suicide to be "part of the plan"...
As stupid as it sounds, I can quote a super hero movie here:
"Nobody panic's when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying!" - The Joker, The Dark Knight (2008)
Guns, and violent acts committed by mentally ill people with them, do not fit in the plan.
Hence panic for statistically small events, and silence for statistically larger events...
CoGirl303
02-16-2018, 23:23
I guess I dont understand what demolishing the building does?
Patch the holes, paint the walls, sanitize and carry on.
But no, they want to destroy a perfectly good building. If I'm being "insensitive" forgive me because I don't see logic in this at all.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/florida-school-shooting-site-could-be-demolished-official-says.html
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why can't someone point out the fact that it's irrational to demand sweeping legal changes based on a statistically insignificant number of deaths without being characterized as not being upset?
I am very upset when any child is killed. I read about children being killed every single day in the news. Some are killed in horrific ways that actually brings tears to my eyes. Humans can be downright evil. That will always be the case. But it sure appears that the vast majority of this country gets far more upset at the weapon used than they do at the actual fact a child was killed.
When one side wants to argue that an event or events are reason enough to demand MAJOR legal changes that cut right to the heart of this country's founding principals and chooses to focus on one particular cause for these events, then yeah, it's ok to point out that their reasoning is flawed by using facts and percentages. And that perhaps their hypocrisy shows their outrage is a bit less than genuine.
Yes, it's upsetting. But the fact remains that it's extremely uncommon. If we as a society don't demand changes for something that happens a lot, then how can we possibly justify demanding changes for something that happens almost never?
PS - I seriously can't understand why we even have this conversation each time this happens. If we as a nation were truly concerned with children losing their lives, there are a lot more significant causes we should be talking about.
I have to very carefully choose my words here, as I don't want to give the wrong impression. I agree with you and I don't want anyone to think that I don't.
I think we, as gun owners who don't want to see our rights lost, continuously fall into a trap every time this happens. We're not just trying to solve a math problem, where simply stating facts is enough for everyone to agree and move on. I want to lay out the situation with the relationship between politicians, upset people that see guns as a tool (minority), and upset people that have no regard for guns as tools (majority), but I won't waste the time because we've seen it all, and heard it all before.
I'll save everyone whatever long post that'd get me on yet another ignore list and just sum up that no amount of rational, factual statements can over come the emotions of dead kids. It just doesn't work like that. I make my posts because I see a group of people who are very passionate about the big picture of keeping rights in place, but losing themselves in the argument and not being able to make up any ground against their opposition. Just a reminder that we're still talking about dead people and while cold hard facts seems like the answer against out of control emotional knee-jerking, it just comes across as cold and hard. I know that this website is a conservative safe space, or the office water cooler if you will, but remember that when you're out in real life and want to make an impression on someone, sometimes a "just the facts" approach doesn't cut it. That's why all the logic in the world hasn't done much to gain any traction. I really wish I had an answer; if I did I'd gladly share it with everyone. In the meantime, I can at least point out where people can potentially do harm to their own side and say, "Hey, you might be right, but if you don't deliver your message with precision, it won't matter."
I feel like I should mention to Gilpin Guy that this wasn't necessarily spawned from your post, and certainly not you specifically, since we've all said the same things at various time over the years, especially myself.
I guess I dont understand what demolishing the building does?
Patch the holes, paint the walls, sanitize and carry on.
But no, they want to destroy a perfectly good building. If I'm being "insensitive" forgive me because I don't see logic in this at all.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/florida-school-shooting-site-could-be-demolished-official-says.html
I don't know if you're from here, but with Columbine, they just closed off the library and remodeled. I think this is a newer thing. I thought Newtown demo'd that school, and I honestly didn't pay attention to any of the others enough to know how common this is. I'm in agreement with you though. People wanted to have a debate about what to do with the Aurora Theater after that as well. As one of our more insightful members suggested at the time, "It's a movie theater, show movies in it."
The deep, dark, cynical part of me wants to believe that school administrators want so badly for increased budgets all the time that they jump at the chance to tear something down and demand a brand new building. I wouldn't say that in polite company though.
I guess I dont understand what demolishing the building does?
Patch the holes, paint the walls, sanitize and carry on.
But no, they want to destroy a perfectly good building. If I'm being "insensitive" forgive me because I don't see logic in this at all.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/florida-school-shooting-site-could-be-demolished-official-says.html
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkShort answer:
because "feels" trump practicality.
"If we can't see it, (we can pretend) it didn't happen."
Remember the recent effort to eradicate Confederate monuments?
Sent from somewhere
GilpinGuy
02-17-2018, 09:18
Why does something have to be common place before people are upset about it?
"Man beats his wife to death in front of their 5 children." -some made up headline.
What's the big deal? Out of that family of 7, only one person died.
I understand that it was fashionable to point out the statistics in the face of defending 2A rights when this first started happening. We need to be careful not to be too cavalier about the numbers. The entire student body, and staff, and immediate family members are all likely irreversibly damaged by being present during the murder of others, and possibly narrowly escaping their own. The tragedy certainly expands well beyond the body count. I don't want to down play suicides either, as many of those families will take them just as hard as school shootings. More than one terrible thing can happen at once, but it doesn't mean that any of them deserve less attention. That's my current position anyway.
I have to very carefully choose my words here, as I don't want to give the wrong impression. I agree with you and I don't want anyone to think that I don't.
I think we, as gun owners who don't want to see our rights lost, continuously fall into a trap every time this happens. We're not just trying to solve a math problem, where simply stating facts is enough for everyone to agree and move on. I want to lay out the situation with the relationship between politicians, upset people that see guns as a tool (minority), and upset people that have no regard for guns as tools (majority), but I won't waste the time because we've seen it all, and heard it all before.
I'll save everyone whatever long post that'd get me on yet another ignore list and just sum up that no amount of rational, factual statements can over come the emotions of dead kids. It just doesn't work like that. I make my posts because I see a group of people who are very passionate about the big picture of keeping rights in place, but losing themselves in the argument and not being able to make up any ground against their opposition. Just a reminder that we're still talking about dead people and while cold hard facts seems like the answer against out of control emotional knee-jerking, it just comes across as cold and hard. I know that this website is a conservative safe space, or the office water cooler if you will, but remember that when you're out in real life and want to make an impression on someone, sometimes a "just the facts" approach doesn't cut it. That's why all the logic in the world hasn't done much to gain any traction. I really wish I had an answer; if I did I'd gladly share it with everyone. In the meantime, I can at least point out where people can potentially do harm to their own side and say, "Hey, you might be right, but if you don't deliver your message with precision, it won't matter."
I feel like I should mention to Gilpin Guy that this wasn't necessarily spawned from your post, and certainly not you specifically, since we've all said the same things at various time over the years, especially myself.
That's a lot of requotes. Anyway, the point I was trying to make, and failed to, was that so many kids are killing themselves. It's freaking tragic.
And it makes sense that some percentage of them will want to "take out" those that made them mad, sad, depressed, etc. Why are so many kids so depressed that they want to kill themselves? Drugs (illegal and prescrioption), social media, bullying, etc? I have no idea.
My guess is that 100% of the kids who commit school shootings plan on killing themselves after getting revenge, making some deranged point, or whatever. Some get cold feet and some don't get the chance because they just get caught before they can do it. My memory tells me that most actually do kill themselves - suicide by cop if you will.
I can't think of one school shooting committed by an adult - a real adult, like 30+ years old. No offense to those under 30, but you get what I mean.
Reduce the number kids who are suicidal and school shootings will naturally decrease. I don't have a solution to this problem, but it obviously exists.
Why active shooter drills didn’t help in the Florida high school shooting (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-active-shooter-drills-didn%E2%80%99t-help-in-the-florida-high-school-shooting/ar-BBJe7bc)
Unless you have resources that can quickly neutralize a bad guy with a gun, it's all academic.
Students to Boycott Schools Until Congress Acts on Guns (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/students-to-boycott-schools-until-congress-acts-on-guns/ar-BBJfLXf)
Zundfolge
02-17-2018, 12:44
I guess I dont understand what demolishing the building does?
The purpose is to reinforce emotionalism over rationality. Reason and logic are the enemies of the left, this is why the left has so completely embraced post-modernism.
If you can undermine the public's ability to think logically and rationally and rely totally on emotion they're easier to manipulate into doing what you want.
At the end of the day, the left hates freedom so much they don't even want individuals to think rationally because this might lead to freedom.
Bailey Guns
02-17-2018, 12:45
There are any number of reasons for young people doing things like this. One thing my wife and I talk about all the time is just how few people actually possess even the most basic coping skills. The slightest thing goes wrong and it sends them into a panic/rage/meltdown of some sort.
I learned coping skills at a very young age. Take responsibility for your actions, respect others and the property of others, or learn your coping skills at the end of a belt/switch/whatever was handy. Yeah, I thought it was pretty brutal at the time. But then I left home at an early age and almost immediately began to understand why my mom (mom divorced my alcoholic dad when I was very young and I grew up with two stepdads over the years) was so strict. I am a true believer that the discipline I "suffered" as a child prepared me to deal with life and all it's ups and downs.
My wife and I are from very similar backgrounds: both had a very strict home life, follow the rules or else, very low income but hard-working parents, youngest of 3 children, left home as soon as possible and joined the military. Probably why we're still together after just shy of 30 years.
I recall as a young boy prone to being a pain in the ass and doing things I shouldn't and getting caught by a neighborhood parent...usually a mom. She'd kick my ass. Her husband would kick my ass. Other parents from the hood would kick my ass. Then they'd all call my parents who would kick my ass. It was truly a community ass kicking. Not just me, any kid caught doing something they shouldn't. I vividly recall a phrase used by my mom time and again when she'd learn of my misdeeds..."I hope you wore his little ass out." Well, they did. Then she did.
Try doing that now. You'd wind up in jail. But I don't recall any mass school shootings back then. Whether any of that actually has any bearing on something like a kid shooting up a school, I don't know.
That's a lot of requotes. Anyway, the point I was trying to make, and failed to, was that so many kids are killing themselves. It's freaking tragic.
And it makes sense that some percentage of them will want to "take out" those that made them mad, sad, depressed, etc. Why are so many kids so depressed that they want to kill themselves? Drugs (illegal and prescrioption), social media, bullying, etc? I have no idea.
My guess is that 100% of the kids who commit school shootings plan on killing themselves after getting revenge, making some deranged point, or whatever. Some get cold feet and some don't get the chance because they just get caught before they can do it. My memory tells me that most actually do kill themselves - suicide by cop if you will.
I can't think of one school shooting committed by an adult - a real adult, like 30+ years old. No offense to those under 30, but you get what I mean.
Reduce the number kids who are suicidal and school shootings will naturally decrease. I don't have a solution to this problem, but it obviously exists.
I did pick up on that, but wasn't sure if that's the way you meant it. Cheers.
Bailey Guns
02-17-2018, 12:54
Quote Originally Posted by CoGirl303 View Post
I guess I dont understand what demolishing the building does?
The purpose is to reinforce emotionalism over rationality. Reason and logic are the enemies of the left, this is why the left has so completely embraced post-modernism.
If you can undermine the public's ability to think logically and rationally and rely totally on emotion they're easier to manipulate into doing what you want.
At the end of the day, the left hates freedom so much they don't even want individuals to think rationally because this might lead to freedom.
Pretty much. And it'll have as much real effect as students and teachers staging a walkout. Because somebody has to "do something".
Honestly, there's a segment of society that hates the solution more than the problem. The best solution is armed and trained staff. Those willing to serve in that position. There really is no downside to it. But the "guns are THAT bad" people won't even consider it. Of course it won't stop everything but I truly believe it would seriously mitigate most instances.
I am a true believer that the discipline I "suffered" as a child prepared me to deal with life and all it's ups and downs.
That sounds familiar. If I were not paying attention due to what is now defined as ADD/HD, I'd get smacked. I figured that was on me because I never saw it coming. My attention was quickly refocused. I thanked my parents as an adult for being so strict and keeping me in line when I was younger.
I'm not sure if it's a lack of discipline, values, engaged parenting, or that mind altering drugs weren't prescribed for the littlest of reasons, but our entire society is in a sideways skid.
WATCH LIVE: Thousands rally for gun control after Florida massacre. Click for coverage from CBS News. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/live-news-coverage-from-cbs-news/ar-BBmYvYY)
A whole lotta' stupid. "The Constitution doesn't say you have a right to buy a gun."
ETA: A whole lot of heat and not much light coming from that crowd. They twist the Constitution into giving us rights, not limiting the Federal government of infringing on the rights given to us by our creator.
A sign in the group stating "Guns don't die, children do." [Shock]
CoGirl303
02-17-2018, 13:47
I don't know if you're from here, but with Columbine, they just closed off the library and remodeled. I think this is a newer thing. I thought Newtown demo'd that school, and I honestly didn't pay attention to any of the others enough to know how common this is. I'm in agreement with you though. People wanted to have a debate about what to do with the Aurora Theater after that as well. As one of our more insightful members suggested at the time, "It's a movie theater, show movies in it."
The deep, dark, cynical part of me wants to believe that school administrators want so badly for increased budgets all the time that they jump at the chance to tear something down and demand a brand new building. I wouldn't say that in polite company though.
born here but raised in Missouri, moved back 5 years after graduating college.
That's a lot of requotes. Anyway, the point I was trying to make, and failed to, was that so many kids are killing themselves. It's freaking tragic.
And it makes sense that some percentage of them will want to "take out" those that made them mad, sad, depressed, etc. Why are so many kids so depressed that they want to kill themselves? Drugs (illegal and prescrioption), social media, bullying, etc? I have no idea.
My guess is that 100% of the kids who commit school shootings plan on killing themselves after getting revenge, making some deranged point, or whatever. Some get cold feet and some don't get the chance because they just get caught before they can do it. My memory tells me that most actually do kill themselves - suicide by cop if you will.
I can't think of one school shooting committed by an adult - a real adult, like 30+ years old. No offense to those under 30, but you get what I mean.
Reduce the number kids who are suicidal and school shootings will naturally decrease. I don't have a solution to this problem, but it obviously exists.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/6ba2e0b604e4bddad0318f24f8016f04.jpg
this is a part of the problem in this country. just one of many aspects of this complex issue. Jon Stewart has a great take on this though.
Everyone is angry.
Everyone is offended.
Everyone is overly sensitive.
Everyone is emotional.
Everyone is this or that....
but why is it contained to America? The rest of the worlds kids arent shooting up their schools and the adults arent shooting up outdoor concerts (unless they are of the radical muslim militant variety but thats religion based zealotry and a different issue altogether).
About ten years ago, before I went to college, I was depressed and went to the mental health clinic at the VA for help. Had been for years. Wasnt suicidal, wasnt having thoughts of hurting anyone, wasnt angry, was just tired of the black rain cloud that seemed to follow me everywhere I went, tired of things going wrong and I wanted a change, wanted to do something about it. The pscyhiatrist that did my intake wrote me a script for buproprien (I think that's what it was) and sent me home. After 4 months things were worse, those meds made me feel awful. I was suddenly disinterested in everything that I loved to do. My personality changed and I felt about as close to being a zombie as you can without actually being one.
I stopped taking it, went back in and demanded a psychologist. Was assigned a female doctor and three weeks later I started counseling. About 4-6 weeks after being off the meds, I felt back to my old self. I was with her for nearly 5 years on a weekly basis and I got through my issues. I had a huge list of things I wanted to change. She taught me everything from recognition of my triggers, recognition of my behavioral patterns, how to cope with things and work through them to breathing and meditation. Best head doctor I have ever had.
Since then I havent used anything except adderall to help me focus and study in college due to my ADHD...I lose focus and get hyper sometimes lol, but I got off of that after I finished college.
But since I left her care, my confidence is [emoji1312] my negativity is way [emoji1313] and that little black [emoji939] doesnt follow me around anymore. It actually never really followed me around, I just thought it did because I was so focused on all the negativity when good and positive things did happen I rarely gave notice.
Another small part of the problem is outlined above...kids arent being taught how to cope with their problems.
Some kids never have to be taught, they figure it out and have pretty good lives. Some are all fubarred, cant get out of their own way, some live mediocre lives never step outside their safety box. Others live in darkness, doom and gloom and try to take everyone with them. Some just feel so hopeless. Parents coddle them, arent around, morals, values, respect, ethics arent being taught in the home. Good examples arent being set. A good hard working work ethic isnt reinforced. Laziness is allowed and condoned, video games, pc/tablets, smartphones have replaced physical outdoor activities that naturally burn off a lot of those negative thoughts, emotions and they're allowed to brew in a self-contained cauldron that eventually bouls over into frustration, anger, rage and violence.
Kids are no longer into fishing, hunting, hiking, climbing, archery, canoeing, rafting, camping, exploring or any of the thousands of outdoor activities.
Scientifically it's been proven that physical activity releases positive endorphins that reduce stress, anger, rage and negative thought processes.
My final observation is when I went to the mental health clinic 10 years ago, the first thing this doctor did was write a script to solve my problems with very little info...THEN they sent me to a psychologist 4 months later after I demanded to see one.
If you go to the ER and are in pain, they typically dont give you dilaudid or morphine or any other painkillers until the doctor has seen you and diagnosed you and given a prognosis. You "might" get ibuprofen if you're lucky and the ER staff is nice.
So why are psychiatrists ramming pills down peopels throats BEFORE we properly diagnose someone and get them in to talk to a professional psychologist? Pills are just an agenda being pushed. Phamaceuticals manufacture and market the pills [emoji1314] Doctors get kickbacks [emoji1314] Politicians gets votes in return for lobbying for Big Pharmacy [emoji1314] The little people get screwed.
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Sounds like the world is a complex place with a lot of moving parts. Hopefully our hero politicians can fix everything with one sweeping gun bill. <---- Sarcasm.
Sounds like the world is a complex place with a lot of moving parts. Hopefully our hero politicians can fix everything with one sweeping gun bill. <---- Sarcasm.
If at first you don't succeed, do more of what has failed. It makes for a good photo-op and makes it appear that you care, without actually doing anything to solve the problem.
Bailey Guns
02-17-2018, 15:34
Florida's "Teacher of the Year" Kelly Guthrie Raley (from her FB page):
Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.
Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!
I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine...it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.
There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school...because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!
Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?
A teacher who obviously understands at least part of the problem.
Columbine is still the same as it was. If I recall they didn't tear anything out.
I think they kids are right to boycott but not to push a useless ban. They should boycott to repeal gun free zones. That is what is putting them in danger. But whomever put them up to protesting knows that a gun ban is what they want for the next step towards communism. And a repeal of a gun free zone repeal is something that would help stop school shootings. That's just me. I think they are staging these by giving the shooter the attention that he wouldn't get otherwise. They don't glorify a teenager that commits suicide, because they know it will breed copycats. But they will do it for school shootings. Its so many different kinds messed up all springing from the same evil. If they had someone there to stop the shooter they would have treated it like Texas and hope it goes away. But when they couldn't stop them in time like Florida then the News can't shut up about it. The media is as much to blame as the killer himself.
CoGirl303
02-17-2018, 15:58
https://twitter.com/ghost_tech__/status/964027576929972227
https://twitter.com/cricktsfromleft/status/964241186406916096
two different students claim there was a second shooter.
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Bailey Guns
02-17-2018, 16:12
Hmmm...I don't think so. I think they were a little confused.
People ALWAYS claim there was a second shooter.
There is always 2 people for a suicide bombing. One to blow themselves up and another with a remote in case he comes to his senses.
Florida's "Teacher of the Year" Kelly Guthrie Raley (from her FB page):
A teacher who obviously understands at least part of the problem.
LIKE
That teacher is 100% correct in my opinion. She’d get my vote.
kidicarus13
02-17-2018, 16:54
People ALWAYS claim there was a second shooter.And always claim the government had something to do with it.
CoGirl303
02-17-2018, 17:06
Carmen
Aaron
Martin
Scott
Nicholas
Gina
Alyssa
Luke
Meadow
Alex
Helena
Peter
Chris
Jaime
Joaquin
Alaina
Cara
These are the 17 victims of the #Parkland school shooting: http://nydn.us/2o9ruW5
[emoji22][emoji26][emoji20]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/df7502d75f68a680b6ccb5210bc818c5.jpg
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Great-Kazoo
02-17-2018, 17:22
There's been a second shooter since Archduke Ferdinand.
KevDen2005
02-17-2018, 18:43
People ALWAYS claim there was a second shooter.
Ask those boys behind the grassy knoll, they'll tell you.
BushMasterBoy
02-17-2018, 18:58
I just wonder if the class room door was locked, what would have happened. And the doctors can't figure out why my blood pressure is sky high.
OtterbatHellcat
02-17-2018, 19:25
I'm not sure if it's a lack of discipline, values, engaged parenting, or that mind altering drugs weren't prescribed for the littlest of reasons, but our entire society is in a sideways skid.
Nail,....meet the hammer.
There is no fix for this stuff happening....In our country as I understand it, this scenario started in 09-05-1949. (Unruh) You can't get rid of guns, and you can't get rid of psychos....good luck with that. It most certainly is a people problem,...not the device in which they choose to inflict their harm with. IMO
CoGirl303
02-17-2018, 20:02
I'm not sure if it's a lack of discipline, values, engaged parenting, or that mind altering drugs weren't prescribed for the littlest of reasons, but our entire society is in a sideways skid.
Nail,....meet the hammer.
There is no fix for this stuff happening....In our country as I understand it, this scenario started in 09-05-1949. (Unruh) You can't get rid of guns, and you can't get rid of psychos....good luck with that. It most certainly is a people problem,...not the device in which they choose to inflict their harm with. IMO
if you (or anyone else) is of the religious type, then you know the happenings in this country are prophecied in the Bible and Revelations. Empires rise and Empires fall, as will ours one day.
There is no fix, just a continued downward spiral into oblivion and ruin.
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JohnnyDrama
02-17-2018, 20:34
Florida's "Teacher of the Year" Kelly Guthrie Raley (from her FB page):
A teacher who obviously understands at least part of the problem.
Like
A huge deterrent for school shooting should be on everyone's mind. They are still helpless. Except for politicians brood. They have men with machine guns protecting them. All I want is a teacher or staff with a glock 19 or 21.
DavieD55
02-18-2018, 01:09
We're at a point and time where kids as young as 2 years are being prescribed anti-depressent SSRI pharmaceuticals and teachers are being trained to be pseudo psychotherapists nowadays. It isn't that hard to see between the lines here.
These drugs are being handed out to people like candy because there are certain individuals who bennifit greatly from it. Almost always the scumbags who go on a rampage are on one form of SSRI or another. Maybe teachers shouldn't be psychiatrists nor should all these drugs be dispensed like candy to the public. Today our society is overmedicated with street drugs but also and especially with big pharma drugs.
It is really no secret that psychiatry is dominated by the left.
Riding motorcycles along Sante Fe and the dirt roads when I was a kid. That was our anti-depressant.
GilpinGuy
02-18-2018, 08:29
Riding motorcycles along Sante Fe and the dirt roads when I was a kid. That was our anti-depressant.
No shit. Fishing, hunting, just about anything in the woods was our outlet. Nowadays, if it isn't on a screen most kids aren't interested.
Some interesting info...
Nikolas Cruz: 'We had this monster living under our roof and we didn't know' (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nikolas-cruz-we-had-this-monster-living-under-our-roof-and-we-didnt-know/ar-BBJgp8y)
Cruz's mom seemed to have cosseted him.
"He was very naive. He wasn't dumb, just naive," James said.
He didn't know how to cook. They had to show him how to use a microwave. He didn't know how to do his laundry and also had to learn to pick up after himself.
He didn't drive but bought a bicycle and rode it to work at a nearby Dollar Tree.
The Sneads had raised their own three boys and jokingly called the process of teaching Cruz "Adulting 101."
I had read that the FBI had failed to thoroughly investigate the tip to the FBI from a YouTube content creator that there was a comment from a user named NikolasCruz stating that they wanted to become a professional school shooter. I didn't realize that they had a tip from someone close to Cruz on January 5th that they completely failed to handle.
Trump criticizes FBI for failure to probe tip on Fla. shooter, says ‘too much time’ spent on Russia probe (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-criticizes-fbi-for-failure-to-probe-tip-on-fla-shooter-says-%E2%80%98too-much-time%E2%80%99-spent-on-russia-probe/ar-BBJfRXH)
The president’s comment marks the first time he has weighed in on the bureau’s failure to investigate a Jan. 5 tip about 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, who this week was charged with shooting and killing 17 people at Parkland’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
The FBI acknowledged the tip on Friday, saying a person close to Cruz had warned a call taker on the bureau’s general tipline that the young man had a desire to kill and might attack a school. The bureau said that information was not passed to agents in the field for investigation — an apparent breach of protocol.
“The fact that the FBI is investigating this failure is not enough,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said in a statement. “Both the House and Senate need to immediately initiate their own investigations into the FBI’s protocols for ensuring tips from the public about potential killers are followed through. Lawmakers and law enforcement personnel constantly remind the public that ‘if you see something, say something.’ In this tragic case, people close to the shooter said something, and our system utterly failed the families of seventeen innocent souls.”
The left, of course, is misdirecting by stating that Republicans want the FBI investigated because they don't want to talk about gun control. [Bang]
No shit. Fishing, hunting, just about anything in the woods was our outlet. Nowadays, if it isn't on a screen most kids aren't interested. I would still be doing it but I think everything fun has been slowly made illegal. I see some neighborhood kids riding motorcycles around the hood and on the rare occasion they have been seen by a cop they will go out of their way to mess with the kids. Sometimes I see them flying by and a few seconds later a cop car fly by. Now I'm sure they are running because they are the biggest drug king pins and they just murdered someone. But I bet they are also just being stupid and running because they are riding a motorcycle where they shouldn't be and just trying to get away. You can't do anything anymore. Of course hanging out online is the only legal thing.
If the government really want to control people and don't like the internet they should legalize freedom and people will so busy getting out and doing stuff they will be the unwashed masses again. But I could be missing something?
Evil x Cowardice = A messed up society. There are still those who do good, and those that are not cowards, but we have allowed there to be thousands of places where Evil and Cowardice has taken root, they are called Gun Free Zones, we should refer to them as Free Fire Zones, or Free Murder Zones. What Senator has stepped forward to repeal all such areas? What Senator has proposed mandatory lethal weapons employment in the counter assault/ambush training for our mandatory teachers in our mandatory government schools? We have had 2 - 3 generations of breeding by Egotistical, Narcissistic, Selfish, Prideful, Lazy, Immoral people and then act shocked that their offspring are worse than their parents. As we would say in the Corps “Direct reflection of your Guide and Squad-leaders” when someone screwed up. Our youth are the direct reflection of their Parents, and Grandparents. The greatest generation and their parents threw away their civil and natural liberties and freedoms over crime epidemics, economic downfall and depression, and a War. They never fought to get any of it back, except for the right to liquid medicate via liquor.
This morning I saw Gov. John Kasich OH (RINO), on CNN arguing that we must listen to our youth for guidance on how to deal with these tragedies. No! Kids are dumb and anyone that would legislate based off the feels of some children is a moron not fit for office.
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This morning I saw Gov. John Kasich OH (RINO), on CNN arguing that we must listen to our youth for guidance on how to deal with these tragedies, no kids are dumb and anyone that would legislate based off the feels of some children is a moron not fit for office.
There is a reason that the Constitution has age limits for public offices. Wisdom is acquired with experience. Youth view the world with overly simplistic and unrealistic expectations.
Bailey Guns
02-18-2018, 15:21
Evil x Cowardice = A messed up society. There are still those who do good, and those that are not cowards, but we have allowed there to be thousands of places where Evil and Cowardice has taken root, they are called Gun Free Zones, we should refer to them as Free Fire Zones, or Free Murder Zones.
Or how about Evil and Cowardice Murder Zones...ECMZs for short?
This morning I saw Gov. John Kasich OH (RINO), on CNN arguing that we must listen to our youth for guidance on how to deal with these tragedies, no kids are dumb and anyone that would legislate based off the feels of some children is a moron not fit for office
But the average 17 year old high school student has amassed a vast amount of wisdom through their diverse and extensive life experiences. I'm sure they probably know how to solve all the problems that have plagued our society for generations now. [/sarcasm]
On the other hand, Kasich is a king-sized moron, too. Given the choice of listening to him or a 17 year old tell me how to solve our problems I'm not sure which I'd choose.
Bailey Guns
02-18-2018, 15:22
Damn...Gman beat me to it. Amazing how we were thinking almost the same thing.
There is a reason that the Constitution has age limits for public offices. Wisdom is acquired with experience. Youth view the world with overly simplistic and unrealistic expectations.
It doesn’t seem that the current AARP bracket is doing much better. Mainly because they’re stuck in the idealism of their youth.
Great-Kazoo
02-18-2018, 19:36
while the few that are truly independent/logical/intelligent/driven have become the ruling elite.
Or on a federal BOLO, Considered Armed & Dangerous
With their ammo arsenal, believed to consist of 500 rounds of 22 lr.
Bailey Guns
02-18-2018, 19:54
At this rate, in fifty years...
Thank God by that time I'll be taking a long, well-deserved nap.
Aloha_Shooter
02-18-2018, 21:34
I used to like Kasich when he was part of Gingrich's Revolution and focused on cutting the budget to reduce the deficit. These days, it seems like he's had a brain transplant with Lyndon Larouche.
CoGirl303
02-18-2018, 21:37
Kids do have good ideas from time to time and sometimes they're even more thought out than what the adults come up with, but not at the frequency or the consistency that is required for a career in politics at this age.
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Bailey Guns
02-18-2018, 21:47
It has nothing to do with politics. A 17 year old is not equipped to make policy decisions on anything. Especially during the middle of their high school indoctrination they receive in the majority of public schools. They parrot what they've been told and don't generally think for themselves. That's why 17 year old people aren't CEOs and generals and such. They don't have the education or experience. Has there been an exception? Maybe. A goddamn rare one.
Can they have an opinion? Of course. But mostly their parents should be telling them, "No, you're not going to walk out of school because you believe in gun control. Throwing a fucking temper tantrum because the leftist media is giving you the spotlight is not an excuse to forego your responsibilities."
But parents won't do that because they're worried about feelings and other horseshit.
OtterbatHellcat
02-18-2018, 23:49
Temper tantrum is also why the riots begin as well IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if this next "march" doesn't turn into just that.
Damn I want to crawl into a hideaway and live out the rest of my life without having the slightest care about all this horseshit. Is there a place for sane people to congregate?....or would that probably be called a "cult" at that point?
I'm really ready to check out from this effed up place...there isn't much hope left...and Bless you if you see any.
GilpinGuy
02-19-2018, 03:13
Temper tantrum is also why the riots begin as well IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if this next "march" doesn't turn into just that.
Damn I want to crawl into a hideaway and live out the rest of my life without having the slightest care about all this horseshit. Is there a place for sane people to congregate?....or would that probably be called a "cult" at that point?
I'm really ready to check out from this effed up place...there isn't much hope left...and Bless you if you see any.
Dude, kinda scary. Don't even sweat shit that you can't control. Focus on you and your family.
Turn off the fucking TV, especially the "news". If you want to know what's going on in the world, browse on-line and read only what you want to know about - don't be force fed garbage from the TV. Ignore the shit that doesn't effect you in any way or that you cannot control. What's the point of wasting 1 second of energy on that?
BTW, "they" want you to be sooooooo concerned about this irrelevant crap over there, so you aren't concerned about what really does effect you over here. Don't fall for it.
hurley842002
02-19-2018, 06:22
I'm really ready to check out from this effed up place...there isn't much hope left...and Bless you if you see any.
Dang dude, do we need to send a welfare check your way?
theGinsue
02-19-2018, 06:43
Dang dude, do we need to send a welfare check your way?
Naw, he's good. By "checking out of this effed up place" he's referring to moving out of state. At least I think that's what he means.
hurley842002
02-19-2018, 08:10
Naw, he's good. By "checking out of this effed up place" he's referring to moving out of state. At least I think that's what he means.Ahhh, in that case #imwithhim
CoGirl303
02-19-2018, 08:10
WATCH LIVE: Thousands rally for gun control after Florida massacre. Click for coverage from CBS News. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/live-news-coverage-from-cbs-news/ar-BBmYvYY)
A whole lotta' stupid. "The Constitution doesn't say you have a right to buy a gun."
ETA: A whole lot of heat and not much light coming from that crowd. They twist the Constitution into giving us rights, not limiting the Federal government of infringing on the rights given to us by our creator.
A sign in the group stating "Guns don't die, children do." [Shock]
I guess they aren't gonna like this then.
https://t.co/jQW8YtKSaR?amp=1
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I guess they aren't gonna like this then.
Florida Senate Committee Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers (https://t.co/jQW8YtKSaR?amp=1)
That strategy has been working well for Utah.
The things that the left are clamoring for to prevent school shootings are already in place...other than to pretend that they can put the genie back in the bottle and make guns disappear.
So much fail with this. The system that the left wants to save them totally failed them...but the problem is guns.
Mental health agency examined Cruz in 2016, didn't hospitalize him (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mental-health-agency-examined-cruz-in-2016-didnt-hospitalize-him/ar-BBJj4q4)
A 2016 mental health report said that crisis workers from a South Florida mental health facility were called to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School to hold alleged Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz for a psychiatric evaluation, but ultimately decided against hospitalizing him.
Henderson Behavioral Health was called under the Baker Act to temporarily commit Cruz for an involuntary psychiatric exam in November 2016, but its health professionals chose not to do so after visiting with him at the school, according to a 2016 Florida Department of Children and Families investigative report obtained by NBC News.
Under the Baker Act, individuals can be detained against their will for up to 72 hours. Those 17 and younger can be held for 12 hours.
The report found that the mental health center was called after Cruz had sent out a Snapchat video in which he cut both of his arms and shared his intention "to go out and buy a gun." The report also noted that in 2015 Cruz had a "Nazi symbol drawn on his book bag" and "hate signs on a book bag stating, 'I hate n------.'"
Cruz allegedly killed 17 students and staff members and injured many more Wednesday in an attack on Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, which he attended until he was expelled last year.
Lynda Cruz, his adoptive mother who died from pneumonia in November 2017, told mental health investigators in November 2016 that her son suffered from ADHD, depression and autism but insisted he received his necessary medication as prescribed, according to the report. She told investigators at the time that her son did not own a gun, beyond an air gun that she had taken away when he "didn't follow house rules about only shooting it within the backyard at the targets."
Lynda Cruz told investigators that her son had started to cut himself after a breakup, the report said. She also "stated that there has never been any issues with other races or issues with racism in her family."
Though there had been an account of medical neglect, the report said that "[Cruz's] clinician from Henderson mental health has stated that there are no issues with [Cruz's] medication and he has been compliant with taking his medication and keeps all of his appointments."
A counselor at the school told the Florida Department of Children and Families investigators that a professional from the mental health facility had visited Cruz and "found him to be stable enough [to] not be hospitalized." The school counselor expressed concern with the department, according to the report, and said she and her staff wanted to "ensure that the assessment of Henderson was not premature."
Nonetheless, the Florida Department of Children and Families investigation was "closed with no indicators to support the allegations of inadequate supervision or medical neglect."
Henderson Behavioral Health did not respond to a request for comment.
After his mother died, Cruz and his brother lived with a family friend. He later asked a school friend if he could live with him and his family. That friend's parents, James and Kimberly Snead, spoke about Cruz to the media for the first time on Saturday.
"We had this monster living under our roof and we didn't know," Kimberly Snead told the Miami Herald. "We didn't see this side of him."
"Everything everybody seems to know, we didn't know," James Snead said. "It's as simple as that."
Cruz is now charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder. His court-appointed lawyer said that he would plead guilty to a sentence of life without parole.
Less than six weeks prior to the shooting, the FBI also received a tip about Cruz but never followed up.
"The system broke down," said Gordon Weekes, one of Broward County's chief assistant public defenders. "It did not catch the red flags … [and] it's changed the landscape of this community."
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 09:10
I guess they aren't gonna like this then.
https://t.co/jQW8YtKSaR?amp=1
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When I was in the Army I remember Florida as a very gun loving state. I am happy to see this is still the case.
Criminals hate being shot at.
thedave1164
02-19-2018, 09:19
Again and again the same thing plays out, so many missed opportunities to stop this perp in his tracks, just like most of the other mass shooters.
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 09:22
Again and again the same thing plays out, so many missed opportunities to stop this perp in his tracks, just like most of the other mass shooters.
Looks like Florida is doing it. The right answer is not a gun free zone, but guns in the right hands.
OtterbatHellcat
02-19-2018, 19:22
Naw, he's good. By "checking out of this effed up place" he's referring to moving out of state. At least I think that's what he means.
Yes this....sorry if my wording was interpreted otherwise. I want to get my place in AZ, get a decent enough job...and eff the world.
Anyone would be insane to not keep up with the further decline of America unfolding before us, I'll have the webz as Lobo calls it and some TV for the few networks I do follow programming that I like.
I see these damn kids and the media bitchen about guns, I'm tired of putting up with liberal horseshit from all directions....Denver and Colorado is for those people now and I cant take it anymore. So many people have been brought up in life as Winners when they're Not, that they can't handle it when life deals them heavy doses of Reality. They never learned reality while they were brought up with Time Outs, and Trophies for just taking up space and having a damn name.
I'm just pissed off, damn it. And I'm taking my ball, and leaving for my final residence...lol. Think Rebas house in the first Tremors movie.... ;)
OtterbatHellcat
02-19-2018, 19:24
"broke into the wrong goll darn rec-room, didn't ya?"
Great-Kazoo
02-19-2018, 19:47
Of all the comments in the media stories is one from denver.
X said
So let me get this straight. The same people who have called Trump Hitler. Now want him to confiscate guns. Anyone else see the irony of that?
KevDen2005
02-20-2018, 09:04
Oh the stupids.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctors-blast-trumps-mental-illness-focus-fight-violence-171839946--politics.html
"DOCTORS" BLAST (ANYONE) FOR SAYING THE CAUSE OF MASS MURDER IS ROOTED IN MENTAL ILLNESS
https://i.imgur.com/bKXed.png
Could they at least... put forth some effort when they want to make shit up.
Because they're never happy when it's not from "their" president. If he was focusing attention somewhere else that's when they would be up in arms about mental health. I hope they protest themselves out of a job.
If its not rooted in a metal health problem... I don't know what it could be? Still not the gun doing the killing.
Interesting article explaining why the shooter had no previous record despite 30something call outs.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/19/school-shooting-was-outcome-of-broward-county-school-board-policy-now-local-and-national-politicians-weaponize-kids-for-ideological-intents/#more-146029
School Shooting Was Outcome of Broward County School Board Policy – Now Local and National Politicians Weaponize Kids for Ideological Intents…
Posted on February 19, 2018 by sundance
CTH has intentionally stayed away from discussion of the Parkland school shooting as we watched and reviewed the response. However, it’s time to call the Broward School Board officials to task and simultaneously prepare the class-action lawyers to cripple the system.
Broward County schools intentionally created polices from 2010 through 2016 that culminated in the 2018 mass school shooting in Parkland. We know this with great specificity because five years ago we warned Broward County Florida school board members this could happen.
In 2012 and 2013 while doing research into the Trayvon Martin shooting we discovered an alarming set of school policies being enacted in Miami-Dade and Broward County Florida. The policies were called “diversionary programs” and were essentially about stopping High School students from being arrested. Law enforcement was instructed to avoid arrests and defer criminal conduct to school administrators.
Students who engaged in violence, drug sales, robberies, burglaries, theft and other various crimes were intentionally kept out of the criminal justice system. County administrators and School Superintendents told local and county law enforcement officers to stop arresting students.
2013 […] Broward, the nation’s seventh largest district, had the highest number of school-related arrests in Florida in the 2011-2012 school year, according to state data. Seventy-one percent of the 1,062 arrests made were for misdemeanor offenses. (more)
Unfortunately, the school board mandated policies came into conflict with law and order. The problem of the conflicted policy -vs- legality worsened over time as the police excused much more than misdemeanor crimes. Over time this culminated in police officers falsifying documents, hiding criminal activity, lying on official police reports and even hiding stolen merchandise police retrieved from high school students.
...
CoGirl303
02-20-2018, 17:52
Good for Florida to not take the knee jerk reaction option.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/florida-house-votes-down-motion-to-take-up-weapons-ban-with-douglas-students-present
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Good for Florida to not take the knee jerk reaction option.
https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/florida-house-votes-down-motion-to-take-up-weapons-ban-with-douglas-students-present
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I saw that last night. A 2fer. A stupid motion struck down and moron snowflakes crying in public.
From http://woodpilereport.com/
All we have to "understand" is who did it, Nikolas Cruz by name. A century ago he would have gone to trial within weeks, and if convicted, publicly executed soon thereafter with hymn singing and refreshments all around. As long as justice was served, anyone was free to peddle their tea time theories.
Cruz should be put down like the evil dog he is, after a fair trial by a jury of his peers.
Jeffrey Lebowski
02-21-2018, 06:54
"I can't think of one school shooting committed by an adult - a real adult, like 30+ years old.
This is a huge part of the problem in this country.
Flycassutts
02-21-2018, 10:40
The squeakie wheel gets the grease. The protesting of the left gets action because we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Maybe it’s time that we legal gun owners start protesting for the laws already on the books to be enforced. I sure I don’t have all of the details but I believe this tragedy could have been averted. This shooter fell through huge cracks, all the signs were there. More restrictive laws are not the solution to school shootings but is instead a step toward the agenda of the left in furthering restrictions to gun ownership. Very few seem to want to have a discussion on mental health issues. We need to understand the commonality shared amoung all school shooters as well as all shooters in mass killings. We have to know the cause, the symptoms in order to stop this madness.
The squeakie wheel gets the grease. The protesting of the left gets action because we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Maybe it’s time that we legal gun owners start protesting for the laws already on the books to be enforced. I sure I don’t have all of the details but I believe this tragedy could have been averted. This shooter fell through huge cracks, all the signs were there. More restrictive laws are not the solution to school shootings but is instead a step toward the agenda of the left in furthering restrictions to gun ownership. Very few seem to want to have a discussion on mental health issues. We need to understand the commonality shared amoung all school shooters as well as all shooters in mass killings. We have to know the cause, the symptoms in order to stop this madness.
The left will never agree to that.
More proof that the left just wants to ban firearms ownership so they can sweep through America like their heroes Stalin, Mao, and Hitler swept through their own countries murdering the people who opposed them.
This is refreshing...
Florida school shooting survivor: Media using tragedy to push gun control (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-school-shooting-survivor-media-using-tragedy-to-push-gun-control/ar-BBJnJHE)
A survivor of the deadly shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who was previously interviewed by CNN and MSNBC following the mass shooting, told Fox News he believes certain media outlets are politicizing the tragedy to push gun control.
Brandon Minoff, an 18-year-old senior, said the media chose to target gun control advocates instead of focusing on the 17 lives lost in Wednesday's slaughter.
“I wholeheartedly believe that the media is politicizing this tragedy,” Minoff said. “It seems that gun control laws is the major topic of conversation rather than focusing on the bigger issue of 17 innocent lives being taken at the hands of another human.”
Minoff said students at the school are well-meaning and passionate on both sides of the contentious gun issue. At least 100 students from the school were expected to march in front of the State Capital in Tallahassee on Wednesday to demand stricter gun laws. Dozens of his classmates have willingly approached reporters and anchors to advocate for what they see as solutions to stop the school shooting epidemic. But Minoff said not all of the students at the school share the same stance -- yet most of the coverage has ignored those who favor gun rights.
“I know many people who are pro-gun and others who support gun control but it seems that the media is specifically targeting those in support of gun control to make it seem as if they are the majority, and the liberal news outlets are the ones that seem to make the bigger effort to speak to these people, and I'm talking from experience,” said Minoff, who was interviewed on cable news in primetime.
Minoff, who had a class with shooter Nikolas Cruz during his sophomore year, was outside when Cruz started firing. Minoff's brother, Aiden, was inside and heard the shots.
But Minoff said as soon as the gunfire stopped, the gun control push began.
“After getting home Wednesday night, three hours after the shooting took place, sitting on the couch and putting on the news, it pained me to hear conversations of gun control laws as I had just luckily escaped one of the deadliest school shootings in US history," Minoff said.
MSNBC’s Brian Williams asked Minoff what he would do as a lawmaker to stop school shootings. Minoff immediately replied that banning guns just creates a higher demand for them, and contended the real issue is mental health reform.
The next day, Minoff said he watched as CNN again focused on gun control even as the shooter's troubling mental health history -- and missed warning signs -- began to emerge.
“And all day Thursday, CNN was interviewing gun experts and specialists to brainwash the audience that gun control is a necessity,” he said. “They even have an army of my classmates trying to persuade other students that guns are unnecessary and should be illegal.”
Minoff said he supports the First Amendment rights of his classmates, but he believes many of them are uninformed about guns and are just going along with the perceived popular opinion.
He pointed out that on the “March For Our Lives” website the mission statement says “We cannot allow one more teacher to make a choice to jump in front of a firing assault rifle to save the life of students.” But, he noted, an assault rifle is an automatic weapon, and there wasn’t an assault rifle used in the Florida shooting -- rather Cruz was armed with an AR-15.
Like many of his classmates, Minoff wants to make changes so this doesn’t happen again, and he hopes to meet with President Trump to discuss solutions.
Minoff supports some regulations when it comes to purchasing firearms, such as age restrictions and more extensive background checks that include police reports -- especially given the police were called to the Cruz residence nearly 40 times before the shooting occurred.
“I would also talk about the importance of arming security guards and other trained individuals in schools," he said. "The only armed person in the school, the SRO, was reportedly nowhere to be found during the time of the attack and it shows in the fact that Cruz managed to vacate the school unscathed."
He added: "At the same time, [security guard and] Coach Aaron Feis had a face-to-face altercation with Cruz and was unable to do anything but use his body to shield others. The definition of security is ‘state of being free from danger or threat,’ but there is no freedom from danger or threat when security guards are unarmed.”
BushMasterBoy
02-21-2018, 12:11
I guess we have to install metal detectors in schools like the airports have. I had to go through a metal detector at the Stapleton airport in 1976 to get on the plane. I was 17 and on leave from the Air Force. The guy in front of me set off the detector. He showed the security agent a Denver PD badge and said he was armed. She said "I have to let you through" to him.
Metal detectors would do the trick, as long as they are hardened. A metal detector does zero good if a determined person starts their spree with the person running the metal detector.
KevDen2005
02-21-2018, 12:26
Metal detectors would do the trick, as long as they are hardened. A metal detector does zero good if a determined person starts their spree with the person running the metal detector.
I could never wrap my head around unarmed security next to a metal detector
It's like modern day gold panning. BEEP BEEP BEEP "I'll take that, so I can pawn it later." Why would someone panning for gold need to be armed?
Bailey Guns
02-21-2018, 16:42
I'm all for arming staff and having some additional security measures as long as they are practical. Maybe even recruiting armed volunteers from the parent pool of the schools. But bullet proof doors? On all doors on all schools? I hope you're planning on paying for that. And what happens when, after we bankrupt ourselves installing all this hardened security, the next nut-job down the line decides to wait til the kids come outside and get on busses? Or he decides to shoot up the playground? Or he decides to do whatever, outside the school, because the doors are bullet proof?
And I'm adamantly against age restrictions being more strict than what they are now. Age restrictions are not going to stop someone from killing. And BTW...there isn't anything remotely resembling "common sense" when it comes to more gun control. I can't think of a single instance where a law stopped anyone from shooting up a school.
Seriously? If this is what passes for common sense, we're fucked. Just what we need. A pro gun-conTroll person on the forum.
ETA: That's not even counting the number of bullet proof or resistant windows and walls that would need to be added. I'd venture to say that if someone shot into a full classroom, even through a wall so he couldn't see inside, plenty of people inside would probably be hit.
hollohas
02-22-2018, 17:12
ABC news is reporting that the armed school resource officer took up a "defensive position" outside and never entered the building. Spent over 4 minutes hanging out in safety while kids got murdered.
.455_Hunter
02-22-2018, 17:14
ABC news is reporting that the armed school resource officer took up a "defensive position" outside and never entered the building. Spent over 4 minutes hanging out in safety while kids got murdered.
Why does that sound familiar?
Why does that sound familiar?
Columbine. But you knew that.
ETA:
School cop who 'never went in' after shooting has resigned (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-cop-who-never-went-in-after-shooting-has-resigned/ar-BBJtrNW)
MIAMI — Broward Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday the school resource officer stationed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas was suspended without pay after he learned the deputy never went into the building when the shooting began.
Scot Peterson chose to resign and retire Thursday morning Israel said.
“I am devastated,” Israel said. “Sick to my stomach. He never went in.”
In addition, the department released records that show that multiple agencies had warning signs that Nikolas Cruz was troubled.
Israel said two other deputies, Edward Eason and Guntis Treijs are also under investigation and have been put on “restrictive duty.”
According to Israel, Peterson remained outside Building 12 for about four minutes. The shooting lasted about six minutes, he said. When the shooting began the deputy was inside the school handling a matter with a female student.
A review of surveillance video showed that the deputy was in position and armed but never entered the building. He remained stationed outside the building while the shooting went on.
Israel said Peterson should have “Went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer.”
He said the video was part of the investigation and Israel said it may never be released.
On Feb. 14 (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article200094039.html), deputies say Cruz, 19 walked into his former school and opened fire with an AR-15 killing 14 students and three teachers.
.455_Hunter
02-22-2018, 18:08
Columbine. But you knew that.
and similarly in Orlando- Security guard traded shots with the perp outside the club, but did not pursue the gunman inside to continue the engagement.
Well that is disgusting. I thought it was pretty clear knowledge that these killers give up or end it themselves at the first sign of resistance.
Way to go deputy!
I have a feeling a lot of other crap is about to come crashing down on Sheriff Israel's department here soon. He knows it too and that is why he is trying to gain as much support as he can with this gun control push down there. He thinks that is a political winner and has hitched his wagon.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 19:10
Columbine. But you knew that.
ETA:
School cop who 'never went in' after shooting has resigned (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-cop-who-never-went-in-after-shooting-has-resigned/ar-BBJtrNW)
effing coward. He had a DUTY to go in. they need to take his badge and he can go find another line of work. He violated his oath. [emoji35]
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effing coward. He had a DUTY to go in. they need to take his badge and he can go find another line of work. He violated his oath. [emoji35]
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LE has no duty to protect.
Been messaged, ruled, and demonstrated many times. I am not being critical of LE by pointing this out. There are thousands of LEOs who would have gone in and made the ultimate sacrifice to save lives, no doubt.
This is why we own guns and why the fallacy of disarmament = safety has to be confronted.
This will, unfortunately, poke a big hole in the "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." argument. Of course you can try to do damage control and argue that the deputy wasn't that good of a good guy, or that he was protecting those in his immediate area, but that won't fly and the damage has been done.
This will, unfortunately, poke a big hole in the "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." argument.
Well, the argument wasn't "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun hiding in the parking lot".
Well, the argument wasn't "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun hiding in the parking lot".
LIKE
We know that, but we also know that it won't matter. There is no way to know if him taking different actions could have saved lives or not, but I personally feel comfortable assuming that he missed an opportunity to do good. This could go down in history as a real life example of evil prevailing when good men take no action. :(
We keep hearing that teachers don't have the necessary training or skills to take on an active shooter, but police do. Maybe not *all* the police are suited for it either.
When seconds count, that cop 30 feet away ain't comin to help you.
Great-Kazoo
02-22-2018, 20:11
We know that, but we also know that it won't matter. There is no way to know if him taking different actions could have saved lives or not, but I personally feel comfortable assuming that he missed an opportunity to do good. This could go down in history as a real life example of evil prevailing when good men take no action. :(
He stood outside for 4 minutes while this was going on. He should be charged as an accessory.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 20:12
LE has no duty to protect.
Been messaged, ruled, and demonstrated many times. I am not being critical of LE by pointing this out. There are thousands of LEOs who would have gone in and made the ultimate sacrifice to save lives, no doubt.
This is why we own guns and why the fallacy of disarmament = safety has to be confronted.
I'm honestly astonished. I thought there was a police officers oath to "Serve and Protect", much like the oath in the military.
Glad to see he resigned. He isnt cut out for the job. What a disappointment. He could have saved so many lives.
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Great-Kazoo
02-22-2018, 20:13
I'm honestly astonished. I thought there was a police officers oath to "Serve and Protect", much like the oath in the military.
Glad to see he resigned. He isnt cut out for the job. What a disappointment. He could have saved so many lives.
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IIRC the SCOTUS ruled on said topic.
I'm honestly astonished. I thought there was a police officers oath to "Serve and Protect", much like the oath in the military.
Glad to see he resigned. He isnt cut out for the job. What a disappointment. He could have saved so many lives.
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Oh there is an oath.
They just technically have no legal duty to protect us even when they have knowledge of a specific threat. That has gone all the up to USSC and been affirmed.
muddywings
02-22-2018, 20:28
Anyone else find it odd that this info on the SRO no engaging the threat came out after the CNN town hall that pushed taking guns away in favor of having the police protect us? Why didn't the Sheriff bring it up yesterday?
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 20:30
Oh there is an oath.
They just technically have no legal duty to protect us even when they have knowledge of a specific threat. That has gone all the up to USSC and been affirmed.
smh. what good is the damn thing if it doesnt have to be followed?
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smh. what good is the damn thing if it doesnt have to be followed?
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We are in an era where words don't mean what we know them to mean.
What good is the Second Amendment after 1934?
Anyone else find it odd that this info on the SRO no engaging the threat came out after the CNN town hall that pushed taking guns away in favor of having the police protect us? Why didn't the Sheriff bring it up yesterday?
Not odd, part of the plan. Facts that contradict the narrative are not permitted.
The only thing that surprises me is that we eventually found out. We're still waiting for some facts on Las Vegas (and I think Sandy Hook too).
We had to wait for the Columbine Report to come out to know...
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/col0516a.htm
May 16 - While Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold casually murdered classmates in the Columbine High library, at least six Jefferson County sheriff's deputies waited outside the school for help.
Two of those deputies already had traded gunfire with the killers in the opening moments of the attack. But by the time the first SWAT team trailed Harris and Klebold inside Columbine, the worst school shooting in U.S. history already was over.
[snip]
My understanding is that this was not cowardice but they were specifically ordered by watch not to go in and wait for SWAT. Huge mistake.
I don't recall this fact being reported until the Columbine Report came out which I think was 2001 (could be wrong about that).
muddywings
02-22-2018, 20:53
We are in an era where words don't mean what we know them to mean.
What good is the Second Amendment after 1934?
Not odd, part of the plan. Facts that contradict the narrative are not permitted.
The only thing that surprises me is that we eventually found out. We're still waiting for some facts on Las Vegas (and I think Sandy Hook too).
We had to wait for the Columbine Report to come out to know...
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/col0516a.htm
My understanding is that this was not cowardice but they were specifically ordered by watch not to go in and wait for SWAT. Huge mistake.
I don't recall this fact being reported until the Columbine Report came out which I think was 2001 (could be wrong about that).
Police tactics for Columbine didn’t have the aggressive, immediately engage the shooter(s) tactics that are in place today. The tactics changed due to Columbine and this deputy failed to properly follow the current SOPs. More children died because of this deputy’s inaction and the fbi and local leo inaction.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5424197/Radiologist-reveals-effects-AR-15-bullets-human-body.html
There are "AR-15 bullets"... and we need to ban "assault rifles". Someone should tell the good doc that the hunting rifles she would apparently not ask to ban can fire the same rounds.
she should stick with what she knows: Radiology.
I love my Savage in .223. Way cheaper to shoot than adding another AR.
I don't think a .223 would pierce that blubber she is packing. I don't mean to fat shame but I love these feel good useful idiots that are overfed and under read. I wish we had more on our side. I could use the company.
KevDen2005
02-23-2018, 00:44
Well CO AR15 Forum, you've had a busy day.
Lots of heated discussion, people got banned, and so on. And I had to work all day and missed it.
But I wanted to address the police issue real quick. I can appreciate the pointing out of the no real requirement from the US Supreme Court to have to protect people. And I must point out that I wasn't there and have no actual knowledge of what went down or what people were thinking.
But I get frustrated as an instructor seeing more and more officers getting hired who don't want to be warriors. They want to be counselors. When the war breaks out they don't want to step up. We've seen some of this in recent officer involved shootings and it's kind of tearing me up inside. It upsets me that when the most horrible day comes the people that signed up to do aren't there to do it, they are spectators. The most recent generation (and many of past generations) believe, "It's never gonna happen" or "It won't happen to me" and then they are completely unprepared.
Again, I wasn't there, I don't know the officer that was on scene, and I don't know what they saw or heard. It's just a feeling I wanted to express.
ETA: I want to point out in 10 years on the job I have been extremely afraid in multiple situations. People are relying on me though, whether it be the man next to me or the person in a real emergency. I always hope that I have what it takes to step up with my partners when they rely on me.
Great-Kazoo
02-23-2018, 01:00
^^^^Extreme LIKE^^^^^ might as well close the thread.
This will, unfortunately, poke a big hole in the "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." argument. Of course you can try to do damage control and argue that the deputy wasn't that good of a good guy, or that he was protecting those in his immediate area, but that won't fly and the damage has been done.
Except this POS Deputy wasn’t a good guy, he was a coward. I will say it again, Cowardice x Evil = Our current society.
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Sounds like it'll take more than just having a gun in the school then.
DenverGP
02-23-2018, 03:26
how about a gun in the trained hands of the PE teacher who gave his life and confronted the gunman unarmed.... he was ready to step up, just didn't have the tools needed to take the loser out.
Sounds like it'll take more than just having a gun in the school then.
Absolutely, reducing entry points once school is in session, training and arming eligible and willing hallway monitors and janitors, coaches, and principles, ending student deferment policies, allowing teachers to discipline kids again, up armor the far corner of every classroom, kick proof, bullet proof doors, security mirrors at every intersecting hallway, creating a national/regional 1-800 tip line to report persons suspected of plotting mass killings, whether that be terrorism, or the crazy/evil/coward emo pimply faced teen.
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Well CO AR15 Forum, you've had a busy day.
Lots of heated discussion, people got banned, and so on. And I had to work all day and missed it.
But I wanted to address the police issue real quick. I can appreciate the pointing out of the no real requirement from the US Supreme Court to have to protect people. And I must point out that I wasn't there and have no actual knowledge of what went down or what people were thinking.
But I get frustrated as an instructor seeing more and more officers getting hired who don't want to be warriors. They want to be counselors. When the war breaks out they don't want to step up. We've seen some of this in recent officer involved shootings and it's kind of tearing me up inside. It upsets me that when the most horrible day comes the people that signed up to do aren't there to do it, they are spectators. The most recent generation (and many of past generations) believe, "It's never gonna happen" or "It won't happen to me" and then they are completely unprepared.
Again, I wasn't there, I don't know the officer that was on scene, and I don't know what they saw or heard. It's just a feeling I wanted to express.
ETA: I want to point out in 10 years on the job I have been extremely afraid in multiple situations. People are relying on me though, whether it be the man next to me or the person in a real emergency. I always hope that I have what it takes to step up with my partners when they rely on me.
Was talking with my team lead yesterday about the Deputy who didn't enter. He didn't understand, because in his mind, a cop is there to protect, place himself in dangerous situations, etc. He's a bit naive in his liberalism. I explained that some people just lock up when it's their time to shine. No way around it. Training can mitigate, but I've seen it happen to a SSG even in a training situation. Platoon Sergeant saw it too and got rid of him since he could no longer trust him in actual combat.
Now, I'm not a cop, but it seems that only the SWAT guys and former military would have a mindset which should guarantee a "rush towards the gunfire" mentality. Otherwise, a lot of folks probably join for more benign altruistic reasons. Not sure how one gets assigned as a SRO... time on force? More of a Counselor mentality? Dunno.
Even past performance as such doesn't guarantee that one will be Johnny On The Spot in a future situation. There have been home invasions where a 12 year old girl stepped up: http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion
And then there's situations where grown men, armed well, wearing body armor just freeze and don't act. How much bravado did they display or even go through internally, prior to being tested? Only they and God know.
The human mind is an interesting thing. The psychology of such things is much talked about in gun circles: sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs.
It sounds very good. People learn the lingo. Wear their PHU or Grunt Style shirts. They order their Black Rifle Coffee. They spit their Copenhagen out in disgust at some Deputy locking up. They have no idea if they will actually be a sheep dog when the wolf comes, even if they have in the past.
At Clear Creek Abbey, in Oklahoma, the monks keep sheep and they have sheep dogs. Generally Great Pyrenees. A lot of mornings those dogs are bloody from fighting whatever came near their flock in the night. They don't posture in the day, but lay around watching and seeming gentle. By night, they'll rip the face off of anything which comes at them and theirs.
When Audie Murphy was asked why he did what he did, his answer was simple: "They were killing my friends." USMC reject. Airborne reject. Nothing special about him until he went down in history as an absolute legend. How many 6'2", 190lbs of rippling muscle Paratroopers and Marines locked up in lesser situations? No way to tell, but given the numbers fighting in WW2, I'd say a few.
So what's the answer? I don't know. I won't posture and thump it out in primordial morse code. Based on those who have been awarded the CMH, it's simply the realization that though wholly unsuited to the task, it's either they risk life and limb or they suffer the consequences: dead friends, dead them, etc.
hollohas
02-23-2018, 09:51
This was a breakdown at every level.
The tough thing about school resource officers is that the 'warrior' type isn't usually the first to sign up for the job. I've never seen a school resource officer that appeared to be the cream of the crop. It's just not an exciting job.
From my experience, the Barney Fife type seems to get assigned to the job and I'm not sure that will ever change.
CavSct1983, Post #257 is an excellent insight.
Do they still have kids read The Red Badge of Courage in school?
CavSct1983, Post #257 is an excellent insight.
Yes it is.
buffalobo
02-23-2018, 10:08
how about a gun in the trained hands of the PE teacher who gave his life and confronted the gunman unarmed.... he was ready to step up, just didn't have the tools needed to take the loser out.This^^^. Unarmed teacher/coach ran toward shooter.
Natural sheep dogs. There are some folks like this in each school. Set up circumstances for them to be effective.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
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