Another special agents and their guns whoopsie. [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

Zundfolge

06-02-2018, 16:48

I just have to wonder what kind of cheap ass holster this guy is using? Uncle Mike's strikes again?

You don't have to have a level 3 retention holster, but my God would it kill you to buy a decent, molded leather or Kydex holster that will retain your gun when dancing (or the even more likely "running to chase a suspect" scenario)? IIRC, FBI agents start out at almost 50k a year, so even if he was a rookie he could afford a good holster.

Mtneer

06-02-2018, 17:08

9 News just reported, "he tried to impress the crowd with a backflip." Doh!

Bailey Guns

06-02-2018, 17:10

Are LE allowed to have their duty sidearm in a bar when there off duty? Are they allowed to consume alcohol while carrying?

In terms of what's legal the short answer to both questions is "Yes". Assuming the bar doesn't prohibit firearms it would be legal. And it would be legal to consume alcohol as long as he wasn't intoxicated. Legal does not equal smart.

In terms of what the FBI policies and procedures dictate, that's a different story. I'm highly doubtful the FBI condones their SAs going out to a bar and drinking while carrying a handgun.

On the other hand, the FBI apparently condones lying to get FISA warrants, planting spies in campaigns of presidential candidates and lots of other shady shit. So it's probably cool what this guy did.

StagLefty

06-02-2018, 18:21

It seems it went off when he picked it up. Apparently "Always keep your finger off the the trigger until ready to use" doesn't apply to back flips while dancing [Sarcasm2]

MrPrena

06-02-2018, 19:29

Hey! FBI isn't US secret service!

They cannot drink while carrying, on duty, or driving.
[LOL]

KS63

06-02-2018, 20:54

Hey! FBI isn't US secret service!

They cannot drink while carrying, on duty, or driving.
[LOL]
Or when getting hookers in Mexico

Duman

06-02-2018, 21:29

I didn't realize Disco was back....

Squeeze

06-03-2018, 07:19

Maybe I should send the FBI a flier on my holsters. [Dunno]

encorehunter

06-03-2018, 07:26

Maybe I should send the FBI a flier on my holsters. [Dunno]

I would love to see their response to that.

Squeeze

06-03-2018, 08:45

I would love to see their response to that.

As soon as I can find someone who can do a back flip, I'm going to make a promotional video for my Facebook page. Gonna work on a flier today. I'll post the response here (if they actually entertain one).

fitz19d

06-03-2018, 09:52

Video
http://kdvr.com/2018/06/02/fbi-agent-allegedly-drops-his-gun-at-denver-night-club-another-patron-shot-in-leg/

GilpinGuy

06-03-2018, 09:59

Facepalm for the misleading headline, but it's expected nowadays.

FOX31 & CHANNEL 2 TV SCHEDULE
FOX31 DenverMENU
64°

FBI agent allegedly drops gun at Denver night club, shooting one person in the leg

KS63

06-03-2018, 12:01

Video
http://kdvr.com/2018/06/02/fbi-agent-allegedly-drops-his-gun-at-denver-night-club-another-patron-shot-in-leg/

Thanks to the idiot SA, every future patron need to go through a metal detector for your “safety”. How about you just ask the crowd if anyone there’s a Fed and to immediately leave the premises?.....

Zundfolge

06-03-2018, 12:11

Thanks to the idiot SA, every future patron need to go through a metal detector for your “safety”. How about you just ask the crowd if anyone there’s a Fed and to immediately leave the premises?.....

Except that every other LEO that wants to carry in there will just flash a badge and still get in armed so this will stop nothing.

Gman

06-03-2018, 12:32

A white guy trying to dance like that? Alcohol had to be involved.

Bailey Guns

06-03-2018, 14:24

A white guy trying to dance like that? Alcohol had to be involved.

Yep...that's better evidence than an intoxilyzer.

Eric P

06-03-2018, 14:43

I hope he is treated like any other person and receives no special treatment for being a federal agent.

MrPrena

06-03-2018, 17:06

Drank=potential charges.
Did not drink=no charges.

Drink or not drink= civil lawsuit and disciplinary action.
It will leak out who he is. I am sure one of 300m+ will say "oh I know who that is...."

Skip

06-03-2018, 17:31

I hope he is treated like any other person and receives no special treatment for being a federal agent.

Has the name even been released?

You or I would already be fired from our non-gov job and waiting for a hearing Monday having spent the whole weekend in jail.

Just another FedGov bad apple. Completely unrelated to a culture that made him think any of these actions, picking a gun up by the trigger being one of them, was okay.

ScottR65

06-03-2018, 18:16

Can't drink while carrying on LEOSA, but otherwise they are required to follow state and local laws, meaning he would have been perfectly legal carrying at a bar in Colorado, as long as he wasn't drinking.

I have a brother-in-law in the FBI. Agents drink, often times ALOT, while carrying. Remember also all the intoxicated Secret Service incidents during the Obama years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Zundfolge

06-03-2018, 18:47

I hope he is treated like any other person and receives no special treatment for being a federal agent.

Too late, he's not in jail.

hurley842002

06-03-2018, 19:25

I have a brother-in-law in the FBI. Agents drink, often times ALOT, while carrying. Remember also all the intoxicated Secret Service incidents during the Obama years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI was speaking from a legality standpoint, any law enforcement officer can do whatever they wish, but it doesn't make it right legally or ethically.

ScottR65

06-03-2018, 19:44

I was speaking from a legality standpoint, any law enforcement officer can do whatever they wish, but it doesn't make it right legally or ethically.

Agreed.

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hollohas

06-03-2018, 21:52

Dude didn't even immediately go to see if someone had been shot...which was a given being that it was a room FULL of people. He just put his hands up and walked away like "ok, I'm done". What a dick.

Gman

06-03-2018, 22:47

Dude didn't even immediately go to see if someone had been shot...which was a given being that it was a room FULL of people. He just put his hands up and walked away like "ok, I'm done". What a dick.
Indeed. His cavalier attitude toward any consequence of what happened really pissed me off. Don't need a jackass like that walking around with a badge and a gun.

BPTactical

06-04-2018, 05:46

Indeed. His cavalier attitude toward any consequence of what happened really pissed me off. Don't need a jackass like that walking around with a badge and a gun.

To me his demeanor almost solidifies the involvement of alcohol.
"Nah, I'm good......peace-out."

Irving

06-04-2018, 06:01

ScottR65

06-04-2018, 06:18

Indeed. His cavalier attitude toward any consequence of what happened really pissed me off. Don't need a jackass like that walking around with a badge and a gun.

Agreed. Why is there no Like button?

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Pistol Packing Preacher

06-04-2018, 07:22

Thoughts:
If one develops the habit of 'finger out of the trigger guard' EVERY TIME he/she picks up the firearm, how can the firearm discharge a round?
This would include firearms with no safeties except the 'trigger safety' like the Glocks.
If the firearm has a 'grip safety' coupled with a thumb safety, 1911 style, how can it discharge immediately after he puts his hand on it?
If the firearm is a double action 1st round (long and heavy trigger pull) and single and single action the next rounds, how hard did he pull the trigger for it to discharge that 1st round?
Inquiring minds want to know!

Gman

06-04-2018, 07:27

I think he should have immediately started running around the club yelling, quickly approaching every person he could. There is zero chance that would have freaked anyone out or caused a stampede toward the exit.
Perhaps there's some action between "Peace..out" and a vaudeville show that would be more appropriate. Perhaps walking toward the general direction of the shot to see if anyone was injured or to provide aid isn't too much to be expected?

Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk

ScottR65

06-04-2018, 07:38

Perhaps there's some action between "Peace..out" and a vaudeville show that would be more appropriate. Perhaps walking toward the general direction of the shot to see if anyone was injured or to provide aid isn't too much to be expected?

Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk

Terrible display of (lack of) professionalism all around. And of course the media cannot stop running this repeatedly.

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CS1983

06-04-2018, 07:52

I gotta agree with Irving here. There is the chance he had hands up to show he was no longer a threat and was walking away as such instead of inducing panic by himself freaking out.

Only video I've seen cuts off as soon as he is hands up and walking away. His actions preceding the hands up/cut off were retarded, obviously. But I'm not going to draw conclusions on the resultant 2 seconds of video without follow-on context. Unless more video is produced, we have no way of knowing his actions afterwards aside from witness statements.

At any rate, in a more fictional world, he accompanies Bob Lee Swagger to the patron state of shootin' stuff: Tennessee.

Timmons was a set up!

Skip

06-04-2018, 08:30

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritans-describe-scene-after-fbi-agent-s-gun-discharges-following-dance-floor-backflip

"Why are you doing a backflip?" she wondered. "I think that's everyone's reaction. I was just angry because I didn't see him at all after that. He didn't help the victim."

"We were here all night," Laferriere said, "Until the whole situation was taken care of. As far as I'm concerned, (the agent) made no effort, whatsoever, to take care of the victim, even though he was probably the best trained of anyone there to take care of the victim."

Professional AF.

I'm happy the media is running it. It shatters the gun free myth grabbers perpetuate. They create their bubble in Denver and one FedGov asshat pops it with a drunken backflip.

Meanwhile, thousands of CCWers harmed no one because we'd get our assess handed to us. Same for local LE who respect the law and the folks here, and also carry 24/7.

ScottR65

06-04-2018, 08:33

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritans-describe-scene-after-fbi-agent-s-gun-discharges-following-dance-floor-backflip

Professional AF.

I'm happy the media is running it. It shatters the gun free myth grabbers perpetuate. They create their bubble in Denver and one FedGov asshat pops it with a drunken backflip.

Meanwhile, thousands of CCWers harmed no one because we'd get our assess handed to us. Same for local LE who respect the law and the folks here, and also carry 24/7.

“Like”

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CS1983

06-04-2018, 09:03

Irving

06-04-2018, 09:20

We already knew he didn't do anything, but from the article, and not the video. Making judgements based on the video is silly because it stops immediately.

I'm not sure how many people here have ever done something "wrong" in a crowded environment before, but this guy's reaction (right or wrong) is what I'd expect out of about 95% of the population in that situation.

Martinjmpr

06-04-2018, 10:12

I was speaking from a legality standpoint, any law enforcement officer can do whatever they wish, but it doesn't make it right legally or ethically.

+1. Being a fed does not exempt them from following state law which makes the possession of a firearm while intoxicated a crime.

CRS 18-12-106(d):

A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
...
(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 18-18-102 (5).

O2HeN2

06-04-2018, 13:55

I'm taking bets that he WAS NOT tested for alcohol after this so he could duck the charge.

O2

kidicarus13

06-04-2018, 14:29

I'm taking bets that he WAS NOT tested for alcohol after this so he could duck the charge.

O2You would've lost your bet.
http://fox40.com/2018/06/04/fbi-agent-whose-gun-went-off-at-nightclub-tested-for-alcohol/

Skip

06-04-2018, 16:40

Well that shatters my attempt at withholding judgment. :/

I judged the moment I saw the story. Just as I would have been judged.

BTW, name still not released. Mine would have been in lights for three days now.

Gman

06-04-2018, 16:55

BTW, name still not released. Mine would have been in lights for three days now.
Including anything you ever posted in social media or on this website that could be taken out of context in order to assassinate your character in the court of public opinion.

TennVol

06-04-2018, 17:22

At any rate, in a more fictional world, he accompanies Bob Lee Swagger to the patron state of shootin' stuff: Tennessee.

Should I be insulted by this? [Dissed]

Gman

06-04-2018, 17:33

Should I be insulted by this? [Dissed]
Not unless you're offended by fiction in the real world. [Coffee]

Irving

06-04-2018, 17:38

If I were in the business of collecting "Conservative Tears," I'd start right here in this thread.

ETA this big smiley :) before anyone takes the crying to the next level. I have no argument and don't want to change any minds, but I find this thread hilariously entertaining.

Gman

06-04-2018, 17:47

"Irv, cleanup on aisle four."

Great-Kazoo

06-04-2018, 18:24

"Irv, cleanup on aisle four."

[mop] [pileoshit]

MrPrena

06-04-2018, 23:55

Now that his face is all across the internet....

JeffySession and this SA will most likely make a DOJ&FBI PR department.
"Let's dance! Guy who dance, we ain't bad, trust us and you won't be sad! Let's dance!" [LOL]

https://youtu.be/l0bvgpg7yig?t=19s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfvr85Y8kK0

Squeeze

06-05-2018, 05:02

Just sayin'

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i445/TangoDownPro/FBI%20Truth_zpsizdfzsuz.jpg (http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/TangoDownPro/media/FBI%20Truth_zpsizdfzsuz.jpg.html)

KS63

06-06-2018, 21:53

Victim speaks
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/victim-in-fbi-shooting-at-mile-high-spirits-in-denver-speaks-out

ben4372

06-06-2018, 22:03

Frank Azar is on it.

Irving

06-06-2018, 23:14

Victim speaks
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/victim-in-fbi-shooting-at-mile-high-spirits-in-denver-speaks-out

"Ouch" - Victim

colorider

06-06-2018, 23:25

"Bishop, a Washington D.C.-based FBI agent visiting Denver for training, was dancing and did a backflip when the gun fell out and fired, according to a viral video obtained by Denver7. "

What shitty typical lame news reporting. The gun did not fall out and fire. The dickhead fired the gun when he grabbed it.

Irving

06-06-2018, 23:27

Did it seem like it fired right into the floor to anyone else? I wonder if it is a concrete floor there.

cstone

06-06-2018, 23:48

"I wasn’t targeted. Obviously, there was no pointing, no aiming," Reddington said. "I don’t blame the guy. I’m not vindictive at all. I don’t want to ruin his life. At this point, there’s nothing we can do to fix it. So, let’s just move on and deal with it as best we can."

And that is what I hired attorney Frank Azar for...because I’m not vindictive, I don’t want blame the guy, I don’t want to ruin his life, there is nothing we can do to fix it, and we should all just move on and deal with it as best we can.

Something tells me the Strong Arm did not approve this message. [ROFL2]

KS63

06-06-2018, 23:59

Sounds to me like the Agent did a swell job of ruining his own life and doesn’t need any help.....

DavieD55

06-07-2018, 00:15

Frank Azar is on it.

He called the strong arm.

Irving

06-07-2018, 00:18

Itchy Finger vs. Strong Arm.

CS1983

06-07-2018, 05:58

"Scratches with briers, Scars to move laughter only" - Coriolanus

Or if one prefers, Monty Python's "Tis but a flesh wound".

So no word on toxicology?

Gman

06-07-2018, 06:40

Did it seem like it fired right into the floor to anyone else? I wonder if it is a concrete floor there.Looked to me like that floor had thin commercial carpeting with concrete underneath and the bullet skipped off the floor.

Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk

crays

06-07-2018, 07:37

I think the bigger question is, "Was it a sig?"

I've been waiting for that one to pop up.

Sent from somewhere...

Skip

06-07-2018, 08:45

I've been waiting for that one to pop up.

Sent from somewhere...

Had to be asked.

The common factor is gravity. I'll say it again... It's time we ban gravity. For the children (especially the fat ones).

I'm happy the agent has been named after four days (?). He should be charged, convicted of a felony, and made a prohibited person as not to inadvertently shoot anyone else while under the influence doing backflips in a bar.

CUatTheEnd

06-07-2018, 11:05

It appears he was a decorated Army captain according to 9news today. Military records obtained Wednesday by WUSA-TV in Washington, D.C., show that Bishop was on active duty in the U.S. Army from November 2011 to February 2017, when he discharged. He held the rank of captain at the time.

According to the records, Bishop served in Afghanistan. He was awarded 10 commendations, including the Army Commendation Medal for his actions in Afghanistan in 2013.

BushMasterBoy

06-07-2018, 11:09

I never did trust military officers. Their career path is paved with the bodies of enlisted personnel.

CS1983

06-07-2018, 11:18

Intelligence Officer. Ah, the old oxymoron strikes again.

BlasterBob

06-07-2018, 11:30

I believe current lower grade Military Officers are somewhat more “down to earth” now than they were back in the mid-50’s. Back then, the majority of them wouldn’t even consider urinating on an enlisted man even if the enlisted man was on fire. That was in the U.S. Army anyhow.

Irving

06-07-2018, 12:06

Why?

Edit, oops, I asking Skip.

Doc45

06-12-2018, 14:14

I’m hearing that Mr. Bishop presented himself this morning to the Denver Sheriff’s Dept. on an arrest warrant for 2nd degree assault. DA hasn’t yet filed formal charges. Not sure if he bonded out or what.

DavieD55

06-12-2018, 17:35

He should be charged with reckless endangerment also.

BPTactical

06-12-2018, 18:38

Tell me, just how does it work that you can negligently discharge your sidearm, likely under the influence in a public environment, wounding a bystander and not get immediately hooked up and given a ride?
Oh, and turn yourself in for "arrest" ten days later?

Pure bullshit.

Is there such a charge as "Felonious Cranial Rectalitis?"

OtterbatHellcat

06-12-2018, 18:42

Like.

GilpinGuy

06-12-2018, 18:44

Frank Azar is on it.

I've had "guests" at work threaten to sick The Strongarm on me before. I chuckle and tell them to go right ahead. Haven't gotten a call yet.

TFOGGER

06-12-2018, 20:52

I'm sure he was released on a PR bond. Unlike us plebes...

DavieD55

06-13-2018, 05:19

The arrest is just PR kabuki theatre to give the appearance things are being handled correctly.

BPTactical

06-13-2018, 05:47

The arrest is just PR kabuki theatre to give the appearance things are being handled correctly.

^^Likely scenario.

He will get reduced charges, no time, fired or demoted.

DavieD55

06-13-2018, 05:52

He was allowed to go home and put on a suit and fix his hair for the mugshot. LOL

TFOGGER

06-13-2018, 09:05

Reading the CRS, under the circumstances reported by the media, this is a class 4 felony. Most likely, it will be plead down to a misdemeanor, with no time served, a fine, and maybe some community service. Or simply dropped once the media lose interest.

WETWRKS

06-13-2018, 11:19

There should be all the additional charges...discharging a firearm in city limits...reckless handling of a firearm...brandishing...

What was the mag capacity?

They are giving him a token charge so this can all just go away. Anyone else they would have hit him with multiple charges and he would have had to bail out instead of being released to his boss.

OtterbatHellcat

06-13-2018, 19:39

Yep.

Special privilege, and it isn't right.

vossman

06-14-2018, 12:33

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5842619/Off-duty-deputys-holstered-gun-goes-strikes-10-year-old-child-back.html

Off-duty Iredell sheriff's deputy Craig Scannella was at a bowling alley in North Carolina when his handgun accidentally went off, and struck a 10-year-old.
Scannella was off duty at George Pappas Victory Lanes. He had a handgun in his right-front pocket with no holster, according to the Moorseville Tribune.
When he went to place his hand in his pocket, the firearm dischaged.The bullet struck the ground and broke into several pieces, with one of them striking the child in the back, leaving a two-inch wound, according to the Charlotte Observer.
The Iredell County District Attorney Sarah Kirkman reviewed the case and determined no criminal charges would be pursued.
However, the sheriff's office is conducting its own, separate investigation.
Deputy Scannella was put on leave pending the results of that investigation.

Gman

06-14-2018, 13:56

If someone is going to be playing a vigorous game of pocket pool, they need to put their pocketed firearm in a holster that covers the trigger.

Skip

06-14-2018, 14:09

[snip]

Off-duty Iredell sheriff's deputy Craig Scannella was at a bowling alley in North Carolina...

...with no holster

with no holster
with no holster
WITH NO HOLSTER

Duman

06-14-2018, 19:03

It's hard to play pocket pool when they're holstered.......

Doc45

06-14-2018, 20:16

I wonder if the Director got asked about Bishop at the press conference this afternoon or if it just focused on their "bigger" problems? Haven't seen or heard anything today but the case has probably fallen off the national radar.

hurley842002

06-14-2018, 20:59

Haven't seen or heard anything today but the case has probably fallen off the national radar.

Hopefully it has fallen off, kind of tired of hearing about it myself, the guy screwed up, give him what he's got coming, no special favors, and move on. I'm willing to bet, the guy pretty much hates his life right now, no sense in pouring more salt in the wound.

Irving

06-14-2018, 21:20

Came to post the same thing. This is a story that shouldn't be dominating the news. It's been talked about far too much already.

Doc45

06-14-2018, 22:13

Agree on it taking a major place on the national, or local, consciousness any further. Just curious what role it plays in the bureau’s re-evaluation of its issues and how to move forward. Just thinking of the bigger picture, but then I’ve been told I do that too much sometimes.

Time to move on I guess, hope the guy shot gets taken care of. Sorry if any feathers got ruffled.

Skip

06-15-2018, 08:23

I'm still happy (and surprised) it's in the news. Great example of the only ones professional enough fallacy.

hurley842002

06-15-2018, 08:32

Sorry if any feathers got ruffled.

No ruffled feathers here my friend, have a great day!

Doc45

06-15-2018, 09:31

No ruffled feathers here my friend, have a great day!

You as well, stay safe.

Gman

06-15-2018, 16:12

http://youtu.be/Yt3GBlVjUd0

MrPrena

06-15-2018, 16:48

He may not get invited to his friends' wedding reception. [LOL]

Skip

07-11-2018, 10:04

Judge: FBI agent accused of accidentally shooting man in Denver nightclub can carry weapon again

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/judge-fbi-agent-accused-of-accidentally-shooting-man-in-denver-nightclub-can-carry-weapon-again

Chase Bishop, 29, faces one count of second-degree assault, a fourth-degree felony. He had his protection order modified at Tuesday’s hearing to allow him to carry his service weapon in accordance with FBI rules—which typically require agents to carry while working and while off duty.

Sounds reasonable, I mean he has to do his job because he hasn't been fired. I'm sure each one of us would receive the same treatment with a CCW after shooting someone. Negligently. While doing backflips. At a club.

I wonder if the judge is from Hawaii?

Lane also said that toxicology screenings done after the shooting, which prosecutors had been awaiting to see if they would file further charges, have been returned and there will be no further charges.

I was hoping he was drunk. This just means he really is that stupid and the FBI really is that f'd up.

Justin

07-11-2018, 11:07

Zundfolge

07-11-2018, 11:16

The bigger problem wasn't really the retention level of his holster. The bigger problem was that this so-called professional doesn't seem to know Rule #3

The gun fell out, hit the floor and all was fine until this fool stuck his booger hook into the trigger guard.

Mazin

07-11-2018, 13:01

^This
Got to keep the booger picker off the bang button!

CS1983

07-11-2018, 13:06

https://www.acuarmy.com/products/this-is-my-safety-t-shirt

https://teespring.com/shop/gun-safety-booger-hook-bang-sw#pid=369&cid=6515&sid=front

spqrzilla

07-11-2018, 13:32

This should result in a new method for testing whether a holster maker's holster has proper retention.

If you can do a backflip with it and the sidearm is still retained, you're good to go.

Call it the Bishop Flip Test.

I am so old, I can remember being required to demonstrate holster retention with a forward roll.

Duman

07-11-2018, 18:59

Irving

07-11-2018, 19:05

How much does it matter?

Mazin

07-11-2018, 22:31

How much does it matter?

I'd hope they would keep the level of punishment commensurate with that of a civilian facing the same charges.

Gman

07-12-2018, 06:09

Martinjmpr

07-12-2018, 09:11

Lane also said that toxicology screenings done after the shooting, which prosecutors had been awaiting to see if they would file further charges, have been returned and there will be no further charges.

That doesn't answer the question.....did he drink ANY alcoholic beverages?

How much does it matter?

From a standpoint of CO law it doesn't matter. CO law doesn't prohibit people from drinking while they carry firearms. CO law only prohibits possession of a weapon while "under the influence" of alcohol or drugs. (CRS 18-12-106 (1) (d) ) However the statute does not define what "under the influence" means.

Now, if drinking alcohol while being in possession of his weapon is a violation of FBI policy, that would be between the agent and his employer and would likely not be a public record (at least not without a FOIA request which could take a long time.) But if the FBI has a policy that prohibits agents from drinking while carrying, I would imagine it's probably the most widely ignored policy in the whole bureau.

EDIT: Of course, since David Lane is involved the question will not be whether Bishop was in violation of the law but rather whether he was negligent. If this goes to trial (which I doubt it will) Lane will make the argument that Bishop drinking and doing backflips while he was armed were both evidence of negligence on his part.

But I doubt this would see the inside of a courtroom anyway. Why would it? The whole thing is on video and there's pretty clear and convincing evidence of negligence on Bishop's part.

The million dollar question (literally) would be whether the responsibility for Bishop's actions can be laid on the FBI and their deep pockets. If the FBI is able to successfully argue that Bishop was not in the performance of duty then they can escape responsibility.

But if the Bureau's policy is that agents have to be armed at all times, that would seem to imply that they're never really "off duty", wouldn't it? Otherwise why would they have to be armed? I think the FBI is going to be on the hook for this one.

Skip

07-12-2018, 09:34

I'm taking it to mean he popped something but not enough to prove intoxication. While there may not be additional charges, the results may be used in court again him if they contributed to backflips and picking his weapon up by the trigger.

I have been advised not to carry while drinking any amount, even just one. Though the statute is vague (as Martin posted), any presence of alcohol can be enough to demonstrate impaired judgment in court. Justification for lethal force in CO is heavily based on perception of imminent danger.

Of course I don't work for FedGov where sound judgment, safe weapons handling, and following the law don't matter.

Gman

07-12-2018, 13:56

I think the FBI taxpayer is going to be on the hook for this one.

FIFY

Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk

WETWRKS

07-12-2018, 14:08

What constitutes being under the influence per Colorado law? My understanding is any alcohol constitutes being under the influence. If he read .00001 that is still under the influence.

Irving

07-12-2018, 14:54

I believe it is a judgement call on law enforcement. You don't want to live in a world where .0000001 equals under the influence, because it's not true.

Gman

07-12-2018, 14:55

Not exactly. Organisms produce some alcohol through metabolic processes, so it's not like there isn't any ever in the system unless consumed from an external source. You're talking about 1 one-hundred-thousandth (.00001).

SideShow Bob

11-13-2018, 23:08

Dang double post.

SideShow Bob

11-13-2018, 23:10

This tard pleads NOT guilty to second degree assault charges.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/dancing-fbi-agent-pleads-not-guilty/73-612667957

MarkCO

11-13-2018, 23:15

Should have taken the plea.

Mazin

11-13-2018, 23:16

Your Honor I plead not guilty because I was getting jiggy wit it........

SideShow Bob

11-13-2018, 23:23

Since the FBI fired this fine agent, his legal defense team should be on his dime, right ?

And he can’t blame it a malfunctioning once the video clearly showed the weapon didn’t discharge until he his grubby mitts on the trigger.
I’m sure the FBI tested the fuck out of it to determine if it was a malfunction before canning his ass.

Will1776

11-14-2018, 01:12

Absolute idiot, but I don't know if he should be slapped with a felony for this.

BPTactical

11-14-2018, 06:57

Absolute idiot, but I don't know if he should be slapped with a felony for this.

Why not? You likely would be.
"Held to a higher standard of conduct" is a thing.

MarkCO

11-14-2018, 08:42

The law on the books says he should be charged. Up to a jury now.

Doc45

11-14-2018, 09:54

Btw, not fired-still an SA.

SideShow Bob

11-14-2018, 10:01

Btw, not fired-still an SA.

Yep, bad information from an article I read.... So us taxpayers will be being for his attorney?s fees.

Will1776

11-14-2018, 10:13

Why not? You likely would be.
"Held to a higher standard of conduct" is a thing.

I know I would be, just saying people make absolutely stupid mistakes often and ruining their lives doesn't really solve much imo.

SideShow Bob

11-14-2018, 10:35

I know I would be, just saying people make absolutely stupid mistakes often and ruining their lives doesn't really solve much imo.

But what about the person he shot ? What is going to be the quality of life he will have ? What about the pain and suffering he has endured and will have ?

We just say no foul , no harm because the victim lived ?

If it were one of us “civilians” that did the shooting, our lives would be ruined, our homes would have raided and all firearms confiscated, our employers would have fired us, we would still be in jail on a half million $$ or more bail if it were granted. And we would have to sell everything we had to defend ourselves.

Will1776

11-14-2018, 10:53

But what about the person he shot ? What is going to be the quality of life he will have ? What about the pain and suffering he has endured and will have ?

We just say no foul , no harm because the victim lived ?

If it were one of us “civilians” that did the shooting, our lives would be ruined, our homes would have raided and all firearms confiscated, our employers would have fired us, we would still be in jail on a half million $$ or more bail if it were granted. And we would have to sell everything we had to defend ourselves.

The guy would still be liable to cover the victim's medical bills and more. I think that's a better solution than labeling the guy a felon so that he can never get a decent job again so he can never contribute much to society or support his family or provide much money to the victim again.

SideShow Bob

11-14-2018, 11:02

BPTactical

11-14-2018, 11:11

The guy would still be liable to cover the victim's medical bills and more. I think that's a better solution than labeling the guy a felon so that he can never get a decent job again so he can never contribute much to society or support his family or provide much money to the victim again.

Stupid has a cost, especially "Felonious Stupidity".
Pegging "0" on my "GiveaFuckometer" for the SA involved.

Life is a series of choices, you make stupid choices and injure someone through your own negligence you have just put your own organ in your own cavity.
Again, "Held to a Higher Standard".

2BAD4U

Will1776

11-14-2018, 11:13

But it would be OK for the common working stiff to be labeled a felon and suffer the same fate ?

Not what I’m saying

Will1776

11-14-2018, 11:13

Stupid has a cost, especially "Felonious Stupidity".
Pegging "0" on my "GiveaFuckometer" for the SA involved.

Life is a series of choices, you make stupid choices and injure someone through your own negligence you have just put your own organ in your own cavity.
Again, "Held to a Higher Standard".

2BAD4U

That’s a fair point

Skip

11-14-2018, 11:34

Since the FBI fired this fine agent, his legal defense team should be on his dime, right ?

And he can?t blame it a malfunctioning once the video clearly showed the weapon didn?t discharge until he his grubby mitts on the trigger.

I?m sure the FBI tested the fuck out of it to determine if it was a malfunction before canning his ass.

YES!

Like I joked (hey, no one died right?) several pages ago... He picked it up by the trigger. And it's clear in the vid. This wasn't an AD by any definition. The trigger was operated and the weapon discharged.

IANAL but we've seen lots of cases where extreme negligence, resulting in harm to another human, rises the level of criminality. I'm still curious about the tox results because that would play into evaluating a series of bad choices; bringing a gun out drinking, dancing with a gun, picking up a gun by the trigger, failing to render aid, etc... The DA likely factored all of these things into the charges.

It's not like the agent was on duty, dropped his weapon, and this happened.

Why not? You likely would be.
"Held to a higher standard of conduct" is a thing.

Read my mind!

Anyone who argues with this needs to take a moment and think... We're not even talking higher standards here, we're talking the same standards any gun owner would be held to under similar circumstances. Except, most of us would be fired from our day jobs the next Monday and likely have to surrender all firearms as a condition of release awaiting trial.

If the legal consequences are too high because there was no criminal intent, maybe the laws need to be examined for everyone? Giving LE a pass in this department just begs for greater consequences/scrutiny for gun owners also when there is no criminal intent.

This is why I had an unpopular take on this board in the thread about the officer who dropped his P320 and it AD'd. I imagine myself in the same situation and know the outcome would be very different. So I don't carry a weapon around like a stapler because I don't want the consequences.

Will1776

11-14-2018, 11:47

YES!

Like I joked (hey, no one died right?) several pages ago... He picked it up by the trigger. And it's clear in the vid. This wasn't an AD by any definition. The trigger was operated and the weapon discharged.

IANAL but we've seen lots of cases where extreme negligence, resulting in harm to another human, rises the level of criminality. I'm still curious about the tox results because that would play into evaluating a series of bad choices; bringing a gun out drinking, dancing with a gun, picking up a gun by the trigger, failing to render aid, etc... The DA likely factored all of these things into the charges.

It's not like the agent was on duty, dropped his weapon, and this happened.

Read my mind!

Anyone who argues with this needs to take a moment and think... We're not even talking higher standards here, we're talking the same standards any gun owner would be held to under similar circumstances. Except, most of us would be fired from our day jobs the next Monday and likely have to surrender all firearms as a condition of release awaiting trial.

If the legal consequences are too high because there was no criminal intent, maybe the laws need to be examined for everyone? Giving LE a pass in this department just begs for greater consequences/scrutiny for gun owners also when there is no criminal intent.

This is why I had an unpopular take on this board in the thread about the officer who dropped his P320 and it AD'd. I imagine myself in the same situation and know the outcome would be very different. So I don't carry a weapon around like a stapler because I don't want the consequences.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Maybe the laws do need to be examined for everyone. Not sure how ethical a felony for someone with no criminal intent is.

Skip

11-14-2018, 13:50

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Maybe the laws do need to be examined for everyone. Not sure how ethical a felony for someone with no criminal intent is.

And we do that by taking a look at the law, not exempting those who enforce bad laws from said bad laws, or nothing changes for the better.

I don't know what the answer here is because we can't have idiots (LE or not) going around and ND'ing. Felony assault, probably not appropriate without intent. Misdemeanor (to start a record) with civil liability, maybe.

MarkCO

11-14-2018, 15:26

While I hope most of you have not been intertwined in the legal system, the are a few things that are apparent. The charge has to be consistent with the law, which it appears to have been in this case. In most legal proceedings, heck even traffic citations, there is usually a plea of some sort offered, as did occur. The details of the plea are not public, but in cases I have seen with F4 charges, it is most common to offer a plea which will bump it down to a misdemeanor. Even deferred sentences can be obtained if the charged is remorseful and makes a compelling statement, leading to no permanent record. If the person hit was killed, should that affect the charge? It was the same action.

Will1776

11-14-2018, 18:53

And we do that by taking a look at the law, not exempting those who enforce bad laws from said bad laws, or nothing changes for the better.

I don't know what the answer here is because we can't have idiots (LE or not) going around and ND'ing. Felony assault, probably not appropriate without intent. Misdemeanor (to start a record) with civil liability, maybe.

Agreed, everyone should be equal under the law.