View Full Version : Does Colorado law dictate what dealers can charge for private sale transfers?
If I arrange to purchase a gun from someone and we goto an FFL for a private transfer does the law dictate how much the dealer can charge for this service? CRS 18-12-112 says ?A licensed gun dealer may charge a fee for services rendered pursuant to this section, which fee shall not exceed ten dollars.? See https://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-18-criminal-code/co-rev-st-sect-18-12-112.html
Every dealer I am aware of charges more than $10. Are they breaking the law, is there some loophole I?m unaware of? Furthermore are FFLs required to offer this service or can they refuse to do it for any price?
Great-Kazoo
12-29-2018, 19:27
They don't have to do a transfer, or charge the required $10 .
They don't have to do a transfer, or charge the required $10 .
You are saying a store can choose whether or not to do transfers? Are you answering the question about how much they can charge if they do transfers?
BPTactical
12-29-2018, 21:09
They can only charge the mandated $10.00 for the background check
They can however charge what ever fee they desire for accommodating the transfer.
For example:
Family Firearms charges 20.50 total. I'd assume 10 of that is the state fee, and 10.50 is their fee (or their fee and some combo of sales tax?).
I don’t see how
“A licensed gun dealer may charge a fee for services rendered pursuant to this section, which fee shall not exceed ten dollars.”
Means that they can charge over ten dollars total. Is the interpretation that they can something that the state has issued or just something the stores have made up on their own?
Great-Kazoo
12-29-2018, 22:20
I don’t see how
“A licensed gun dealer may charge a fee for services rendered pursuant to this section, which fee shall not exceed ten dollars.”
Means that they can charge over ten dollars total. Is the interpretation that they can something that the state has issued or just something the stores have made up on their own?
Yes a Fee. However for their time & paperwork what ever they want to charge, they can. Also it's up to the FFL whether they want to offer a transfer service. They are not obligated by law to do so. Which goes back to the extra charges , basically charging what ever to have you go elsewhere.
Down here it's the same for an OOS transfer. Some offer the service, some don't. Some charge $20, others charge $40+, some tell you no we do not do OOS transfers. Thankfully FTF is a cash n carry deal, even at gunshows.
They can only charge the mandated $10.00 for the background check
They can however charge what ever fee they desire for accommodating the transfer.
This ^
The fee alluded to in the language of the law is for the background check itself, they then charge a fee of whatever they want for handling the entire transaction.
Soooooooooooo. Does this mean the background fee charged by the state would be capped at 10 bucks too? Didn't it get up to $16.00 for a bit.
I understand the interpretation of the law you all are giving. Has any state agency given a similar interpretation? Or are you all just repeating the explanation gun stores have come up with?
I understand the interpretation of the law you all are giving. Has any state agency given a similar interpretation? Or are you all just repeating the explanation gun stores have come up with?
This is the best answer any forum has come up with since the law change.
Pretty sure the CBI fee is now $13.
Pretty sure the CBI fee is now $13.
My latest receipt has it at $10.50. That was last Thursday the 27th.
Rucker61
12-30-2018, 08:29
Soooooooooooo. Does this mean the background fee charged by the state would be capped at 10 bucks too? Didn't it get up to $16.00 for a bit.
According to HB 13-1228, the amount of the fee is set by the head of CBI, and is supposed to reflect the direct and indirect costs of performing the background check. That fee amount isn't debatable, and the only check and balance is the removal of the head of CBI, who serves at the pleasure of the governor.
SouthPaw
12-30-2018, 11:00
CBI fee is currently $10.50.
I very recently bought 3 lowers. 1 CBI @ $10.50, then $15 each for the service of receiving, logging, and processing the lowers. I do not begrudge the dealer in question their fees for services performed.
My asking the question is not because I begrudge anyone, I don’t think the law should dictate a price. I’m simply asking what the law actually says.
$10.50. Check. Wasn't it $6 to begin with, or am I wrong there too?
kidicarus13
12-30-2018, 13:09
$10.50. Check. Wasn't it $6 to begin with, or am I wrong there too?
Colorado House Bill 13-1228 requires that a fee be collected for Colorado House Bill 13-1228 requires that a fee be collected for a firearm background check prior to a firearm transfer by a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL). This law went into effect on March 20, 2013.? Based on the estimated expenses and projected volume of firearm background checks, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) initially set the fee at $10.00 per firearm background check request, but later reduced it to $6.00, effective March 1, 2016, in an effort to comply with the excess reserve statute.
This fee is reviewed by the CBI to determine if any adjustments are necessary. Considerations for adjusting the fee may include the projected number of firearm background check requests, changes in staffing levels to meet expected demand, and/or IT system enhancements that are needed in the operation of the InstaCheck Unit.??We recognize that frequent adjustments to this fee present challenges for your business so, we're committed to keeping the fee as low and affordable as possible.???Although adjustments are inevitable, we are actively exploring ways to try to limit future fluctuations and provide you with a more consistent and predictable rate.
Upon examining the expenses, the CBI has determined a re-calibration of the fee is necessary to maintain current service levels to InstaCheck customers.? Therefore, beginning Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:01 A.M. (MST), the CBI will increase the fee for a firearm background check from $6.00 to $15.00 (USD).? Any firearm background check processed prior to this date will be assessed the $6.00 fee, including the?January 1, 2018 through January 31, 2018?transactions listed on the invoices to be mailed the beginning of February 2018.
The fee increase pertains only to CBI firearm background checks, and not the fee a licensed gun dealer may charge to facilitate private firearms transfers pursuant to Colorado House Bill 13-1229.?The law states that an FFL can charge up to a maximum of $10.00 to conduct this type of transaction to defray costs.
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Thanks for posting this. Where does it come from?
Colorado House Bill 13-1228 requires that a fee be collected for a firearm background check prior to a firearm transfer by a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL). This law went into effect on March 20, 2013.? Based on the estimated expenses and projected volume of firearm background checks, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) initially set the fee at $10.00 per firearm background check request, but later reduced it to $6.00, effective March 1, 2016, in an effort to comply with the excess reserve statute.
This fee is reviewed by the CBI to determine if any adjustments are necessary. Considerations for adjusting the fee may include the projected number of firearm background check requests, changes in staffing levels to meet expected demand, and/or IT system enhancements that are needed in the operation of the InstaCheck Unit.??We recognize that frequent adjustments to this fee present challenges for your business so, we're committed to keeping the fee as low and affordable as possible.???Although adjustments are inevitable, we are actively exploring ways to try to limit future fluctuations and provide you with a more consistent and predictable rate.
Upon examining the expenses, the CBI has determined a re-calibration of the fee is necessary to maintain current service levels to InstaCheck customers.? Therefore, beginning Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:01 A.M. (MST), the CBI will increase the fee for a firearm background check from $6.00 to $15.00 (USD).? Any firearm background check processed prior to this date will be assessed the $6.00 fee, including the?January 1, 2018 through January 31, 2018?transactions listed on the invoices to be mailed the beginning of February 2018.
The fee increase pertains only to CBI firearm background checks, and not the fee a licensed gun dealer may charge to facilitate private firearms transfers pursuant to Colorado House Bill 13-1229.?The law states that an FFL can charge up to a maximum of $10.00 to conduct this type of transaction to defray costs.
Colorado House Bill 13-1228 requires that a fee be collected for Colorado House Bill 13-1228 requires that a fee be collected for a firearm background check prior to a firearm transfer by a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL). This law went into effect on March 20, 2013.? Based on the estimated expenses and projected volume of firearm background checks, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) initially set the fee at $10.00 per firearm background check request, but later reduced it to $6.00, effective March 1, 2016, in an effort to comply with the excess reserve statute.
This fee is reviewed by the CBI to determine if any adjustments are necessary. Considerations for adjusting the fee may include the projected number of firearm background check requests, changes in staffing levels to meet expected demand, and/or IT system enhancements that are needed in the operation of the InstaCheck Unit.??We recognize that frequent adjustments to this fee present challenges for your business so, we're committed to keeping the fee as low and affordable as possible.???Although adjustments are inevitable, we are actively exploring ways to try to limit future fluctuations and provide you with a more consistent and predictable rate.
Upon examining the expenses, the CBI has determined a re-calibration of the fee is necessary to maintain current service levels to InstaCheck customers.? Therefore, beginning Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:01 A.M. (MST), the CBI will increase the fee for a firearm background check from $6.00 to $15.00 (USD).? Any firearm background check processed prior to this date will be assessed the $6.00 fee, including the?January 1, 2018 through January 31, 2018?transactions listed on the invoices to be mailed the beginning of February 2018.
The fee increase pertains only to CBI firearm background checks, and not the fee a licensed gun dealer may charge to facilitate private firearms transfers pursuant to Colorado House Bill 13-1229.?The law states that an FFL can charge up to a maximum of $10.00 to conduct this type of transaction to defray costs.
firearm background check prior to a firearm transfer by a Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL). This law went into effect on March 20, 2013.? Based on the estimated expenses and projected volume of firearm background checks, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) initially set the fee at $10.00 per firearm background check request, but later reduced it to $6.00, effective March 1, 2016, in an effort to comply with the excess reserve statute.
This fee is reviewed by the CBI to determine if any adjustments are necessary. Considerations for adjusting the fee may include the projected number of firearm background check requests, changes in staffing levels to meet expected demand, and/or IT system enhancements that are needed in the operation of the InstaCheck Unit.??We recognize that frequent adjustments to this fee present challenges for your business so, we're committed to keeping the fee as low and affordable as possible.???Although adjustments are inevitable, we are actively exploring ways to try to limit future fluctuations and provide you with a more consistent and predictable rate.
Upon examining the expenses, the CBI has determined a re-calibration of the fee is necessary to maintain current service levels to InstaCheck customers.? Therefore, beginning Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 12:01 A.M. (MST), the CBI will increase the fee for a firearm background check from $6.00 to $15.00 (USD).? Any firearm background check processed prior to this date will be assessed the $6.00 fee, including the?January 1, 2018 through January 31, 2018?transactions listed on the invoices to be mailed the beginning of February 2018.
The fee increase pertains only to CBI firearm background checks, and not the fee a licensed gun dealer may charge to facilitate private firearms transfers pursuant to Colorado House Bill 13-1229.?The law states that an FFL can charge up to a maximum of $10.00 to conduct this type of transaction to defray costs.
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kidicarus13
12-30-2018, 16:10
CBI website
Can you give us the link?
kidicarus13
12-30-2018, 17:54
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cbi/2013firearmlegislation
Great-Kazoo
12-30-2018, 18:22
Tell a FFL you're not paying a penny more than $10 and see what they say.
So you believe the intent of the law and those who voted for it is that people pay no more than $10 for person to person transfers done through an FFL?
Yes, as it is written, it would restrict dealers from charging over $10 on top of the CBI seasonally-adjusted fee, which could be anywhere from $6.00 to $6,000 at the discretion of the CBI.
No, you cannot enforce it nor does anyone in CO enforce it.
The reason it is written into the legislation is so they can argue affordability. The reason they don't actually enforce it and never intend to - ever - is because there wouldn't be anyone left to do transfers, thus causing a constitutional crisis (state constitution + federal constitution) whereas people could not buy, sell, or transfer firearms, and the law would be shut down.
It exists merely for the state gov't to have it's cake and eat it too, and yes, it can, and does all the time.
So, like virtually any other American regulation, law, and otherwise, don't expect your government to operate and follow it's own rulebook. If you do, then I have a bridge to sell you to Alcatraz. If you're mad about being charged $25, or $45, go ahead and give a dealer some lip, it'll get you real far. Or, accept that your country is as f***ed as any other, and where some you need to set money aside to bribe officers, here has its own issues too. Shop around, find a dealer with the lowest rate that is acceptable to you.
I'm a bit torn on this issue. NO ONE is complaining about the state not really enforcing the mag law, even to the point that dealers openly sell 15+ mags. No one is complaining about not facing penalties for not updating your new address regarding a CCW on time. Should we be upset about which laws the state chooses to enforce, when we're directly benefiting from others that they don't choose to enforce?
Great-Kazoo
12-30-2018, 19:29
So you believe the intent of the law and those who voted for it is that people pay no more than $10 for person to person transfers done through an FFL?
The intent was to get a baseline for "reasonable fees" The reality (IMO) was to show CO was tough on guns, wanted to do something to show they were and have a means to justify their law. If they were showing (as FT mentioned) no FFL was doing transfers, they would have to admit a feel good law didn't work. But you're arguing for the sense of disagreeing with something a FFL chooses to do.
Your issue is with the FFL's, not other forum members.
"Your issue is with the FFL's, not other forum members."
Whoa buddy, I don't have an issue with anyone, apparently I didn't make it clear earlier, I'm not posting this thread because I'm upset about what is being charged. I am trying to understand what the statute requires of FFLs and if they are or are not meeting it. If indeed they are not living up to the statute I'm not complaining about it, I think its interesting that we have a law that isn't being enforced, but of course there are lots of laws like that. I also think its interesting that legislators and the governor approved something perhaps with the understanding that it would cost people $10, not something well over that. Again Mr. Kazoo I'm not posting this to pick a fight with anyone.
"I'm a bit torn on this issue. NO ONE is complaining about the state not really enforcing the mag law, even to the point that dealers openly sell 15+ mags. No one is complaining about not facing penalties for not updating your new address regarding a CCW on time. Should we be upset about which laws the state chooses to enforce, when we're directly benefiting from others that they don't choose to enforce?"
Fair question.
So you believe the intent of the law and those who voted for it is that people pay no more than $10 for person to person transfers done through an FFL?
No.. the law as passed requires that background checks be performed on all private sales of firearms. The fee and the $ amount is for the background check itself. The law and the cbi did not create a system where a seller could perform their own background checks so you are required to go to an FFL to perform the transfer of ownership. You pay the state a controlled amount of $$ for the background check fee and then you pay the dealer for the service $$ of the transfer service.
I'm a bit torn on this issue. NO ONE is complaining about the state not really enforcing the mag law, even to the point that dealers openly sell 15+ mags. No one is complaining about not facing penalties for not updating your new address regarding a CCW on time. Should we be upset about which laws the state chooses to enforce, when we're directly benefiting from others that they don't choose to enforce?
A law that is not enforced should be nullified.
Great-Kazoo
12-31-2018, 00:43
A law that is not enforced should be nullified.
As well as the politicians who propose such laws.
BladesNBarrels
01-03-2019, 11:52
As well as the politicians who propose such laws.
Each legislator is allowed to introduce 5 bills. Most politicians are seeking re-election or further offices. In order to do that, they must get publicity as fast as they can. So, they see their duty as they must introduce 5 bills and get them in front of the public.
Fortunately, most of the bills die in Committee or do not pass.
But, given the volume of the legislation, the inattention of most politicians to anything beyond their own interests, and lack of publicity; a lot of laws get passed that all have unintended consequences.
I don't have the answer to resolving this conundrum, and I haven't seen any political systems that are better.
You would have to change human nature.
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