View Full Version : BOLO for "Woman infatuated with Columbine"
RblDiver
04-16-2019, 19:04
Don't see any posts about this, but particularly to those in the community with gun stores, there's a woman said to be in the Denver area who is "infatuated with the Columbine school shooting" who may be a threat. Please be on the lookout.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/04/16/jefferson-county-schools-lockout/
She's said to be "attempting to buy firearms."
Her name is Sol Pais, she's described as white female, 5'5", brown hair, last seen wearing black tshirt, camo pants, and black boots.
1st candidate for the red flag law?
hurley842002
04-16-2019, 19:15
Was surprised nobody posted about this earlier, my kindergartener got to experience his first "lockout", with Littleton PD all over the campus when my wife picked him up.
BushMasterBoy
04-16-2019, 19:18
DP blocked me out...
https://www.cpr.org/news/story/fbi-investigation-into-credible-threat-sends-denver-metro-schools-into-lockouts
theGinsue
04-16-2019, 19:21
Interesting articles about this 18yo "woman", but it would help to locate/identify her if they'd added a photo of her in the articles.
You can't cure crazy!
hurley842002
04-16-2019, 19:24
Hardly looks 18, but drugs are bad mmmmkay...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190417/548e6b92120d1f0c27f1d060890facb8.jpg
theGinsue
04-16-2019, 19:44
Those pics look like 2 different women.
She look about 38 to 48.
She's from Florida.
She's from Florida.
She could have saved herself some travel time and just obsessed over the Parkland, FL school shooting.
Press conference is about to start.
colorider
04-16-2019, 21:29
Although it may be a true story, the coverage, timeliness to the red flag bill and today a Columbine meeting with Hickenlooper all seems way too prompted. News stories said they thought she was in the foothills area of golden/Jeffco, then a few hours said she was in Littleton. Said she was trying to buy guns, but no details whatsoever. Whole thing sounds like bullshit to me. But then again, I'm grumpy and don't trust anybody in the local Govt or news anymore.
Flew here and bought a shotgun according to the press conference.
Do you think it might feel perfectly timed because the Columbine anniversary is in four days?
SouthPaw
04-16-2019, 21:42
Although it may be a true story, the coverage, timeliness to the red flag bill and today a Columbine meeting with Hickenlooper all seems way too prompted. News stories said they thought she was in the foothills area of golden/Jeffco, then a few hours said she was in Littleton. Said she was trying to buy guns, but no details whatsoever. Whole thing sounds like bullshit to me. But then again, I'm grumpy and don't trust anybody in the local Govt or news anymore.
It?s a true story, believe me. Really BOLO for this person.
colorider
04-16-2019, 21:48
It is all just so timely
BushMasterBoy
04-16-2019, 21:54
Said she was last seen in the foothills of Jefferson County. Parents are from Argentina.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/sol-pais/
hollohas
04-16-2019, 21:58
The FBI confirmed that she did purchase a shotgun as soon as she arrived in the state.
Why only two photos of her?
Firehaus
04-16-2019, 22:07
Not to down play the threat, but a metro wide full school lock down for a 5?5? 18 year old girl with a shotgun?
Jeffco Sheriff seemed very distressed standing behind FBI during press conference.
Just seems like there may be more to the story and/or threat.
With that being said, keeping my kids home tomorrow.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DavieD55
04-16-2019, 22:19
Although it may be a true story, the coverage, timeliness to the red flag bill and today a Columbine meeting with Hickenlooper all seems way too prompted. News stories said they thought she was in the foothills area of golden/Jeffco, then a few hours said she was in Littleton. Said she was trying to buy guns, but no details whatsoever. Whole thing sounds like bullshit to me. But then again, I'm grumpy and don't trust anybody in the local Govt or news anymore.
That^
Well . . . you can't cancel schools in the entire city every time some loon comes out of the woodwork. You'd never have school. And I have two kids at a DC HS.
Post armed guards wherever possible and hopefully they catch this idiot . . . or she suck starts the shotgun due to the publicity. Seems the perfect example for coming up with some kind of program where heavily vetted volunteers can be engaged to add the real (or potential) threat of a barrier to defective humans shooting up schools. I'd jump through some serious hoops to take a day or two off and add a layer. Maybe that's unrealistic thinking, but surely there's ways to beef up the security during certain times and at no cost to the schools.
GilpinGuy
04-16-2019, 22:30
My wife and I are considering keeping the kids home tomorrow. Feels kind of weird, like maybe we're overreacting, but the other side of me says "you have a warning from a psychopath...why wouldn't you take precautions?" We haven't decided yet.
BushMasterBoy
04-16-2019, 22:32
Kind of cold to be out in the wild like that. Totally different weather than Miami. Wonder what kind of shotgun she bought?
12 gauge is big for a small person. She should have come to Pueblo, it is 58F here. Snowing along I-70 corridor is likely tonight. Hitchhiking, she could be in California by now. Hope this all turns out OK for her.
State testing going on last week and this, for the next two days. Testing aside, my kids aren't going to have a noticeable effect on their lives if they miss a few days of school.
Ill be close by my kids school tomorrow. Not going to let fear keep them from their fun and education, but will also be prepared.
Scanker19
04-16-2019, 22:51
At least she passed a background check.
Are non residents of CO allowed to buy a gun in CO? How did she pass the two BGCs we have here?
People are losing their minds and calling for more gun control on socials. Not even willing to think through how those laws didn’t work and continue to fail. Say the word “Columbine” and everyone is on edge. I think they know the kids are soft targets in gun free zones but won’t reject their politics to admit it.
Media has people eating out of their hands. They don’t even need more mass shootings, just hysteria.
ETA: Make the best choice for your family. Nutters sometimes bring out more nutters. DougCo will make a decision at 3:00AM.
You can buy a long gun across state lines.
Are non residents of CO allowed to buy a gun in CO? How did she pass the two BGCs we have here?
Yes for long guns providing the purchase would be allowed in the non-resident’s home state. I believe the law was adjusted in 1986 to rid it of “contiguous state” provision.
It is all just so timely
Well it is the week leading up to the 20th year since the tragedy (can?t use the word anniversary for a horrific event) and those kind of landmark dates always bring out the unstable.
Kind of amazing that a 5' 5", 18 year old woman with a shotgun can nearly paralyze an entire metro area school system. It's not the spetsnaz loose in the metro area.
Why does it matter that she's an average height woman? People don't care if a 6'4 250lb dude shoots their kid with a shotgun, or a girl shoots their kid with a shotgun. It's the part about their kid getting shot that they are concerned about.
BushMasterBoy
04-16-2019, 23:59
She is from Miami and no pics of her in a bikini? What a boring thread.
DougCo and Cherry Creek are closed tomorrow.
Denver and JeffCo undecided.
Great way to empower the nutters and beg for more. But hardening the gun free zones is lunacy.
School for us just closed, but since this is a bunch of bullshit and 99.9% of all news is faked by the lefty media and government, I'm going to send them anyway.
Everything is closed now.
One woman with a shotgun has owned the state.
I'm curious to see how many days they'll close schools if they don't find her right away.
I'm curious to see how many days they'll close schools if they don't find her right away.
Months? Can’t be too careful.
Should we get a group together in JeffCo and offer our services? With the state paralyzed by fear maybe we can help?
I think that truly mental ill people don't make great decisions and she'll probably get roped up pretty quick. If cities are shutting down schools, there's got to be lots of pressure on the police to get her located quick.
Yup, and people aren’t happy.
I’ve already cleared my house a few dozen times. No sign of her.
But she seems nice (reminds me of Holmes). And once again, LE knew all about her.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/sol-pais/amp/
The police were out big time today. I thought the president was in town on my drive down I25 this afternoon, cops everywhere! One thing I am sure of is that there's alot more to this story than they are letting us know about.
colorider
04-17-2019, 01:32
Wonder how long it’s goimg to take before Polis starts spouting off about “how easy it was for her to get a gun and something needs to be done “. Ya know it’s coming. Bets anyone ?
Wonder how long it’s goimg to take before Polis starts spouting off about “how easy it was for her to get a gun and something needs to be done “. Ya know it’s coming. Bets anyone ?
I think you're right. Pretty unfortunate since people who are of age and aren't restricted, should be able to get guns.
I'm curious to see how many days they'll close schools if they don't find her right away.
I think if she was truly a "Columbine fanatic" (whatever that means), then she would attempt something as close to 4/20 as possible, which means Friday, or if she were smarter, Monday. Either way, no way schools will stay closed that long, nor will most people be able to maintain high levels of fear if something isn't happening within 48 hours. Additionally, there is a good chance she'll encounter some news and realize that staging an attack on the day that 400,000 students are home from school is not ideal. If she isn't found before then, she'd simply wait till everyone is back. So, seems like a poorly timed closure, but I really don't see the schools doing anything different while everyone is in full panic mode.
Of course I'm just guessing in the dark like everyone else.
Douglas County Schools closed today...
All I need is two minutes alone with this Bitch....
Put a 40 rounder in my lightest ar15 for my wife today before I head off to work. My neighborhood attracts crazys like shit does flies.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2019, 06:52
Boulder Valley SD's robophone called the house phone and cell phones right before 1:00 last night, and upon answering, I was greeted with complete silence- no message, no nothing.
If she is so dangerous that all schools need to be closed, what do the pundits say about Little League baseball, kids soccer clubs, malls, stores, etc?
All I need is two minutes alone with this Bitch....
Like speed dating?
BPTactical
04-17-2019, 07:23
Wonder how long it’s goimg to take before Polis starts spouting off about “how easy it was for her to get a gun and something needs to be done “. Ya know it’s coming. Bets anyone ?
This was my thought- I would be curious to see if there is a link to D Hogg, the psycho dike chick or others from the Florida school shooting and all the rabblerousing that came from that to this gal. The age frame is right, 18 yo.
Perfect opportunity for bad press on how she was able to travel and procure a firearm so easily with the intent of doing harm.
Well . . . you can't cancel schools in the entire city every time some loon comes out of the woodwork. You'd never have school. And I have two kids at a DC HS.
Post armed guards wherever possible and hopefully they catch this idiot . . . or she suck starts the shotgun due to the publicity. Seems the perfect example for coming up with some kind of program where heavily vetted volunteers can be engaged to add the real (or potential) threat of a barrier to defective humans shooting up schools. I'd jump through some serious hoops to take a day or two off and add a layer. Maybe that's unrealistic thinking, but surely there's ways to beef up the security during certain times and at no cost to the schools.
DougCo and Cherry Creek are closed tomorrow.
Denver and JeffCo undecided.
Great way to empower the nutters and beg for more. But hardening the gun free zones is lunacy.
This was my first take on it^^^^
Why do we fold, and take the soft way out? Oh, yeah, so we can say that we did something ("we" being the left and the PTB)... ...and then use it against you to remove more of your rights.
Seems to me this only strengthens the case for more/better security regarding schools. The only "if it saves one life" being saved in this scenario is hers.
That said...
While I can discount the conspiracy side a bit due to the timing with Columbine, and the fact that her own father (presumably, as he speaking through his closed door to a reporter) stated that she may have some mental problems, I can't discount the nagging suspicion that this is an orchestrated event for the lefties to seize a crisis for their benefit.
And has been stated above by numerous folks, look for a ramp-up of gun control legislation.
But don't look for anything concerning addressing mental health issues, which is the core issue here even if this is a manufactured event. You'd only be wasting your time.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 07:33
So what is she driving? It must have a Florida tag? It usually takes 3 days to drive here from southern Florida.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLGEvq335xU
.455_Hunter
04-17-2019, 07:39
I bet the state legislature still has time to pass a ban on long gun sales for under 21 and any non-residents.
Scanker19
04-17-2019, 07:42
So what is she driving? It must have a Florida tag? It usually takes 3 days to drive here from southern Florida.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLGEvq335xU
She flew. Well she didn?t the airplane she was in flew her.
This sounds fishy, so we have a BOLO for a woman, with no PC to arrest, yet that?s enough to shut down an entire regions worth of schools? I seen some of her ramblings, so what was the infatuation with columbine? It?s like the authorities are playing both the release everything and get everyone hyped but also we ain?t saying shit about anything because of the investigation?
mahabali
04-17-2019, 07:48
I don’t understand the lack of info here. Seems odd. How hard could she be to find? If she is staying in a hotel she must be using a credit card, must have a phone? If she is taking Ubers shouldn’t that be able to be tracked?
hurley842002
04-17-2019, 07:52
While I understand the argument of being "soft", or "folding" due to shutting the school's down, I, for one am relieved my kids aren't attending school today, then again, this is my first time having a child in school when something like this happens, so I may hyper sensitive to the subject.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 07:52
I don’t understand the lack of info here. Seems odd. How hard could she be to find? If she is staying in a hotel she must be using a credit card, must have a phone? If she is taking Ubers shouldn’t that be able to be tracked?
This!
hurley842002
04-17-2019, 07:55
I don?t understand the lack of info here. Seems odd. How hard could she be to find? If she is staying in a hotel she must be using a credit card, must have a phone? If she is taking Ubers shouldn?t that be able to be tracked?Perhaps she is not doing any of those things, it's not terribly hard to believe she could be flying under the radar, crazy has no boundaries.
Is this an orchestrated event? Let's say we dig into it. I myself have not had the time to read every story from every news outlet, so help me out here.
To my understanding, two things that have been stated are that she flew here and then, in very short order, purchased a pump shotgun.
How did she depart the airport? Are they looking at airport security footage to determine that?
Where did she purchase (legally, I might add) said firearm? Are they reviewing that security footage, provided it exists. (I'm going to go to the link above about how she was known to LE in FL already before I expound on this point further)
MOST IMPORTANTLY: How is she funding this venture? Where did that money come from? Might be some telling info if we can figure that out.
Although this is likely all being done, but we are not privy to the info during the investigation.
There are a series of posts on a national forum by an 18 yr old female from the Miami area asking about the laws regarding her purchase of a shotgun in Colorado. They started in March, she claimed to be coming out to visit friends to go shooting or hunting this month.
The lack of knowledge regarding hunting here was never mentioned by either the poster or any of the respondents.
In these posts she stated she?d be flying out here then driving back. I?m not sure about adding that forum name or that person?s screen name. There is a post from a ?junior? member that just joined passing on the info about the search.
It would be beyond foolish for law enforcement to release all they know or how they know it.
Yup, and people aren’t happy.
I’ve already cleared my house a few dozen times. No sign of her.
But she seems nice (reminds me of Holmes). And once again, LE knew all about her.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/sol-pais/amp/
Skip, I just read the heavy article you linked. Where did you get from that that LE already knew all about her? I didn't interpret it quite like that. I read it all as info that was gleaned after this became an event. Not trying to be negative, just wondering if I missed something. Perhaps the FBI was already looking at her due to online activity?
BPTactical
04-17-2019, 08:19
A "BOLO" sent out by Rocky Mountain Safe Streets Task Force says “NO PC TO ARREST" meaning authorities at the time the BOLO was created did not have enough probable cause to arrest her. The sheet also says, "If contacted detain and evaluate mental health status then contact Det. Gilbert immediately."
and there you have it.
she has done nothing to warrant arrest.
So has she really made threats? It doesn't look like it.
This is the beginning of the next step after red flag laws, the ability to put people on lists with no due process to prevent them from BUYING a gun.
It is coming, you will see more news like this to convince the public, that there are people that need to be prevented form buying guns cause of the children.
maybe she just decided to go hiking in the rockies and wanted bear protection.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 08:32
So she is armed with a pump shotgun.
Condition yellow, as normal for me. Will avoid places where large numbers of people gather, as usual. Sometimes being antisocial is a blessing. Hopefully, if she's a whack job, she'll just skip the part where she shoots a bunch of innocents, and just moves on to the part of the script where she suck starts the shotgun...
BPTactical
04-17-2019, 08:52
Condition yellow, as normal for me. Will avoid places where large numbers of people gather, as usual. Sometimes being antisocial is a blessing. Hopefully, if she's a whack job, she'll just skip the part where she shoots a bunch of innocents, and just moves on to the part of the script where she suck starts the shotgun...
No, it's just nobody wants to hang out with you.....[flamingo]
JohnnyDrama
04-17-2019, 08:54
The assistant principal came around and made sure everybody knew what was going on--even way out here. Evidently she's got a lot more than just the metro area worked up. I figured you guys would have more information. Does anyone know if precautions are being implemented in New Mexico/Wyoming?
This whole thing just proves how unprepared our schools are for dealing with something like this. She gave away her plan by making threats which got her on the radar. Our schools need to be prepared to deal with not only nuts like this, but the threats that do not make themselves known. Schools need to be prepared to deal with this kind of thing on a day to day basis. Once you make it known that schools can deal with this kind of thing, that alone will deter anyone from thinking schools are a soft target anymore.
Before school cancelled my wife was saying that tomorrow would be the safest day because everyone is on alert. My stance was that you can be as alert as you want, but if there is no officer on site and the staff is unarmed, then you'll just be more alert when the shooting starts and nothing will change.
Realistically we're both right. School shooters tend not to be tacticians and a locked door would probably thwart a lot of plans of most crazies.
No, it's just nobody wants to hang out with you.....[flamingo]
[ROFL1] Also true!
keylay31
04-17-2019, 09:09
The official story so far is that her parents reported her missing and the FL cops found her website and alerted the FBI who them found out she had already flown to CO and bought a shotgun legally. It sounds like she used a ride sharing service to the foothills. Let’s not get carried away with all of the false flag /red flag talk and focus on the fact that one 18 girl with a shotgun has managed to shut down the entire front range. That’s the real story. Lot of conspiracy BS when the truth is the Dems won’t let a tragedy go to waste. Let’s hype up the whole state
Martinjmpr
04-17-2019, 09:22
So to sum up, an 18 year old who as near as we can tell, has not committed any crime, has paralyzed the city with fear?
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 09:25
A "BOLO" sent out by Rocky Mountain Safe Streets Task Force says ?NO PC TO ARREST" meaning authorities at the time the BOLO was created did not have enough probable cause to arrest her. The sheet also says, "If contacted detain and evaluate mental health status then contact Det. Gilbert immediately."
and there you have it.
she has done nothing to warrant arrest.
So has she really made threats? It doesn't look like it.
This is the beginning of the next step after red flag laws, the ability to put people on lists with no due process to prevent them from BUYING a gun.
It is coming, you will see more news like this to convince the public, that there are people that need to be prevented form buying guns cause of the children.
maybe she just decided to go hiking in the rockies and wanted bear protection.
Threats are probably rambling on social media.
Observation 1) There has never been any threat by the girl or there would be PC to arrest. Threatening that kind of action, is an offense that gives PC to arrest. As is even threatening to harm one person.
Observation 2) It's kind of unusual to call the parents and have an "FBI Investigator" answer the parents phone, respond to the media, and claim to be questioning the parents.
To the extent this is real, it's boiled down to:
1. 18 yo girl might have expressed interest in Columbine (but has apparently never threatened to do a repeat, which would be PC)
2. 18yo girl might have traveled to Colorado and might have bought a shotgun.
Meanwhile, all of the front range panics like an ICBM is incoming, shutters all the schools, etc.
I wonder to what extent this is actually an NSA case -- you know, how they give "tips" to local law enforcement based on all the surveillance of US Citizens that they don't do, giving LE a heads up to invent PC to arrest someone the NSA feels is dangerous, but yet, can't be based upon what the NSA actually intercepted because that would be, illegal to spy on it's own citizens without PC.
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 09:27
This whole thing just proves how unprepared our schools are for dealing with something like this. She gave away her plan by making threats which got her on the radar. Our schools need to be prepared to deal with not only nuts like this, but the threats that do not make themselves known. Schools need to be prepared to deal with this kind of thing on a day to day basis. Once you make it known that schools can deal with this kind of thing, that alone will deter anyone from thinking schools are a soft target anymore.
Nah, they think fences and gate guards are too third world.
JohnnyDrama
04-17-2019, 09:27
So to sum up, an 18 year old who as near as we can tell, has not committed any crime, has paralyzed the city with fear?
It looks that way. Of course, the news people will give themselves a pat on the back for being proactive.
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 09:30
Observation 1) There has never been any threat by the girl or there would be PC to arrest. Threatening that kind of action, is an offense that gives PC to arrest. As is even threatening to harm one person.
Observation 2) It's kind of unusual to call the parents and have an "FBI Investigator" answer the parents phone, respond to the media, and claim to be questioning the parents.
To the extent this is real, it's boiled down to:
1. 18 yo girl might have expressed interest in Columbine (but has apparently never threatened to do a repeat, which would be PC)
2. 18yo girl might have traveled to Colorado and might have bought a shotgun.
Meanwhile, all of the front range panics like an ICBM is incoming, shutters all the schools, etc.
I wonder to what extent this is actually an NSA case -- you know, how they give "tips" to local law enforcement based on all the surveillance of US Citizens that they don't do, giving LE a heads up to invent PC to arrest someone the NSA feels is dangerous, but yet, can't be based upon what the NSA actually intercepted because that would be, illegal to spy on it's own citizens without PC.
So looks like the gov’t really do have a way to track if someone bought a gun?
So looks like the gov’t really do have a way to track if someone bought a gun?
To determine *what* someone bought would require talking to the people who sold it (Gunstore or private party who didn't do a FFL like they should). But, in theory (if we ignore legal standards for a moment), CBI could be able to say "xxx attempted to buy a gun two days ago at "store", and it was a long gun, and the background check was rejected/successful". Now, whether or not they should is another argument entirely, that's the extent of the data the gov't immediately has access to (e.g., CBI would not be able to say "it's a pump shotgun", because they don't have a clue.) Now, the only way electronic intercepts would put it together is if she bought it online in advance of coming to CO, or the most likely of all is if they looked at her card statements, saw a gun store, and went in and talked to them or something.
ETA: What I'm most suspicious of is she may have made credible threats online, in a way the gov't shouldn't have been able to associate with her real identity, so the gov't isn't in a position to explain that she made these threats, because it would beg the question how they know it was her.
ETA 2: And of course, the other possibility is that it is just the parents saying "Our daughter is interested in Columbine and went to CO" but then, the response would be incredibly and unjustifiably overblown.
asystejs
04-17-2019, 09:44
A quick call to CBI to see if anyone by the name of < insert name here > has
had a background check done in the last week and if so where was it (or more) done.
Send investigators to that location(s), copy the 4473(s), interview the seller(s) and review security footage.
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 09:45
To determine *what* someone bought would require talking to the people who sold it (Gunstore or private party who didn't do a FFL like they should). But, in theory (if we ignore legal standards for a moment), CBI could be able to say "xxx attempted to buy a gun two days ago at "store", and it was a long gun, and the background check was rejected/successful". Now, whether or not they should is another argument entirely, that's the extent of the data the gov't immediately has access to (e.g., CBI would not be able to say "it's a pump shotgun", because they don't have a clue.) Now, the only way electronic intercepts would put it together is if she bought it online in advance of coming to CO, or the most likely of all is if they looked at her card statements, saw a gun store, and went in and talked to them or something.
ETA: What I'm most suspicious of is she may have made credible threats online, in a way the gov't shouldn't have been able to associate with her real identity, so the gov't isn't in a position to explain that she made these threats, because it would beg the question how they know it was her.
By Florida law:
"A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer."
So how did she successfully purchase a gun? Or all they got is that she attempted to purchase? Or did a gun store done f**ked up?
newracer
04-17-2019, 09:51
By Florida law:
"A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer."
So how did she successfully purchase a gun? Or all they got is that she attempted to purchase? Or did a gun store done f**ked up?
She purchased the shotgun in CO.
newracer
04-17-2019, 09:53
Comprehensive article on what is known about her
https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/sol-pais/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0Df3JFOMaAU3uKJPorG-A-OMS0tEi-LOPR7VdwLtG-KYS4fCGmboXPBV8
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 09:55
She purchased the shotgun in CO.
Yes, but as FL resident I assume, so the gun store has to make sure they are following FL gun law as well.
We don't know what the parents said. If they said, "At first we thought she was just missing, but now that we know she went to Colorado and bought a shotgun, we've got a serious problem on our hands." Wouldn't we want law enforcement to take that seriously?
newracer
04-17-2019, 09:58
Yes, but as FL resident I assume, so the gun store has to make sure they are following FL gun law as well.
Negative.
By Florida law:
"A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer."
So how did she successfully purchase a gun? Or all they got is that she attempted to purchase? Or did a gun store done f**ked up?
Quick question for FFL's: In Colorado is the onus of determining if someone is from a prohibited state (in this case based on age), regarding purchase of a long gun, on the FFL or the CBI? Honest question. I bought a rifle in NM quite a few years back, and it seemed like the store (Walmart IIRC) had a color coded map for the clerk to check before filling out the 4473. Don't know if that procedure varies by state, or if my recollection is even correct.
Thanks in advance.
ETA: I was a CO resident at the time.
Yes, but as FL resident I assume, so the gun store has to make sure they are following FL gun law as well.
Does Florida prohibit the possession of a long gun by someone under 21? Doubtful. CO doesn't have to comply with FL's purchase requirements.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 09:59
I would start by checking the campground just west of Central City. The casinos have a great cheap breakfast. Old guys camping will definitely be friendly to a petite 18 y/o. Nederland is good place to hide out too. If anybody wants to form a posse, I am game. LMAO
We don't know what the parents said. If they said, "At first we thought she was just missing, but now that we know she went to Colorado and bought a shotgun, we've got a serious problem on our hands." Wouldn't we want law enforcement to take that seriously?
If that is all it is, this response is entirely and disproportionately overblown without a single threat made. All our schools would probably be closed about 60+% of the time otherwise. And if the same standard is applied, POTUS could never leave a bunker. We'd all have to stay at home year round fearing an ICBM at any time. etc., etc.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2019, 10:07
I think LEO and school officials are correct to be concerned, and increased APPROPRIATE security measures are warranted (lockout, perhaps indoor recess/lunch, increased LEO presence at arrival/dismissal, etc). However, closing every school (for how many days????) on the Front Range is excessive to the threat and sets a bad precedent for future issues.
It does seem drastic. Of course it's a catch 22 because if they round her up and nothing happens, then everything was way overblown. But if she slips through the cracks and tries something, even if no one ultimately gets hurt, then everyone will be saying that they didn't do enough.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2019, 10:08
If that is all it is, this response is entirely and disproportionately overblown without a single threat made. All our schools would probably be closed about 60+% of the time otherwise. And if the same standard is applied, POTUS could never leave a bunker. We'd all have to stay at home year round fearing an ICBM at any time. etc., etc.
I think OxArt and I were having a mind meld while typing.
hurley842002
04-17-2019, 10:21
I think LEO and school officials are correct to be concerned, and increased APPROPRIATE security measures are warranted (lockout, perhaps indoor recess/lunch, increased LEO presence at arrival/dismissal, etc). However, closing every school (for how many days????) on the Front Range is excessive to the threat and sets a bad precedent for future issues.I posted earlier that I was glad they closed schools, but after thinking on it a bit, I'm more on board with your suggestion. According to my wife, when she went to pick my son up yesterday, there were 2 uniformed Littleton police officers at the main door, and two unmarked police cruisers in the entrances to the parking lot, I feel pretty comfortable with that, and the children still make it to school.
On a side note, I heard a couple ignorant/misinformed gentlemen in the locker room this morning, who were under the impression that all schools had an armed resource officer assigned to them. I haven't seen anything other than LPS security in the parking lots of my children's schools.
Fom page 3 of the following ATF FFL Newsletter (granted, it was written in Feb 2011 and may be out of date):
https://www.atf.gov/file/56456/download
(BOLDED BY ME)
The ?contiguous state? provisions of the Gun Control Act
(GCA) generally permit unlicensed purchasers to acquire
long guns from Federal firearms licensees (FFLs) located in a
State contiguous to the State in which the purchaser resides if
(1) the purchaser?s State of residence permitted such sale and
(2) the sale fully complied with the legal conditions of sale in
both such contiguous states.
This provision of the GCA was amended in 1986 to allow
FFLs to sell or dispose of long guns to residents of any other
state (not just contiguous states) provided:
1. the transferee meets in person with the FFL to
accomplish the transfer; and
2. the sale, delivery and receipt fully comply with the legal
conditions of sale in the buyer?s and seller?s States.
A number of States patterned their laws after the original
provision of the GCA that allows nonresidents to purchase
long guns from FFLs only in contiguous states. Many of
those States have not revised their laws to reflect the 1986
amendments to the GCA that allow over-the-counter sales
of long guns to residents of any State, as outlined above.
This has caused confusion among FFLs, who often read such
?contiguous state? State laws as prohibiting sales to residents
of noncontiguous states.
ATF does not read State laws that refer to ?contiguous
states? as prohibiting sales of long guns to residents of
noncontiguous states unless the language contained in that
State?s law expressly prohibits residents from acquiring firearms outside that State. Thus, if the language in the State
laws authorizes sales of long guns to residents of contiguous
states, that State law also authorizes the sale of long guns to
residents of all other states.
So, what website was this that she was a part of? Screen grab from the Heavy article indicates it is not this one.
Found near Echo Lake and taken into custody.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/04/17/sol-pais-captured-search-school-threats-colorado-echo-lake-swat-team-mount-evans/
colorider
04-17-2019, 10:39
My son's school in westminster has 1 resource officer that shares his time between 2 schools. He is at one of the schools all day. Alternates days. He is a Westminster police officer. The schools are 5 minutes away from each other. I'm not a security logistics expert, but I feel that a Police officer, sheriff, armed security at each entry would have been a great security measure rather than shutting down schools. I'm basing this on the fact they are looking for 1 gal with a shotgun. Of course, maybe they know more than they are letting out there. The security at the doors would also show that they are prepared for a situation.
Just saw on the news she is dead, of course we know how accurate the news is.
Skip, I just read the heavy article you linked. Where did you get from that that LE already knew all about her? I didn't interpret it quite like that. I read it all as info that was gleaned after this became an event. Not trying to be negative, just wondering if I missed something. Perhaps the FBI was already looking at her due to online activity?
The Miami office of the FBI first identified a possible threat involving Pais on the morning of April 16, authorities alleged. What appears to really have escalated things, for obvious reasons: Authorities say that Sol Pais took the step of flying to the Denver area, where she bought a gun.
I think it's safe to assume they were looking into her. The FBI had the flight, gun purchase, and threats all connected on the very day she flew.
With all the nutters it's probably safe to assume the FBI has a list of people who have made threats or are unstable and flags them based on behavior. Pais created two data points in a single day.
I bet the state legislature still has time to pass a ban on long gun sales for under 21 and any non-residents.
Least of our concerns, really. Not that I support this, but with BGCs and mag bans we've already lost more.
--
She's been captured! So apparently they found their PC.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/04/17/sol-pais-dead-search-school-threats-colorado-echo-lake-mount-evans/
--
The media doesn't really need mass shootings anymore to push gun control. They can generate all the fear they need with hypothetical non-events and the Libs eat it up.
Meanwhile the schools are so soft that this shut them all down. A threat assessment on a single person with a shotgun and the reasonable response is "shut it all down." No one will be talking about this.
thedave1164
04-17-2019, 10:45
Found near Echo Lake and taken into custody.
she is dead
Confirmed dead from self-inflicted gunshot
mahabali
04-17-2019, 10:55
Self inflicted gunshot is what they are saying.
Thanks for responding Skip.
Sent from somewhere...
Martinjmpr
04-17-2019, 10:59
Suck-started her 12 gauge.
hurley842002
04-17-2019, 11:03
Wonderful outcome when compared with past nutters of this type, of course I'd prefer that this girl could have been helped, but unfortunately it's too late sometimes.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 11:05
And I know that place like the back of my hand. Sad ending.
She's dead, Jim.
So I guess this is SOP now . . . close down the entire front range for any non-specific threat that may not even have been an arrestable offense to begin with?
Firehaus
04-17-2019, 11:08
If the response doesn?t match the threat, what was the real threat?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well it's not the best ending but I'll take it.
Now we can hope that no other nutter wants his name in lights this week.
I'm not a security logistics expert, but I feel that a Police officer, sheriff, armed security at each entry would have been a great security measure rather than shutting down schools.
It doesn't matter now, but I agree with this. When Deputy Gumm was killed down the street from me, so many on duty police officers abandoned their shifts that half the metro area went on accident alert. If the police can spare enough man power to go on a midnight mourning parade, maning schools for a couple of days doesn't seem unreasonable.
I'll go ahead and predict that the next gun control law pushed will be "Must be 21 for any firearm purchase" after this episode. The progressives said we needed background checks to keep everyone safe. Oooops. Now the goal posts have to move again.
I'd say that background checks worked in this case. If they couldn't confirm that she hadn't purchased a gun, then would this have even made the news? Probably in this current environment.
BPTactical
04-17-2019, 12:40
Hmmm-
Read this thread.
This was well planned in advance.
https://www.nationalgunforum.com/gun-laws-news-rights/196582-question-about-non-colorado-resident-buying-shotgun.html
Hmmm-
Read this thread.
This was well planned in advance.
https://www.nationalgunforum.com/gun-laws-news-rights/196582-question-about-non-colorado-resident-buying-shotgun.html
Wow!
One hand, that seems totally casual and legit in spite of not explaining the why. When I go on vacation it's typically not for range time (too much else to see/do). She wasn't hunting.
OTOH, she is posting using her known handle and FBI knew about her. Would seem like a lot of dots could have been connected prior to her even leaving FL (airline tickets usually purchased in advance).
--
Shop is close to Columbine. Wonder if she wanted to go straight to the school and had to change her plans?
https://imgur.com/qVQr6Kx.jpg
ETA: Owner just reported to say that she claimed she was going turkey hunting.
I'd say that background checks worked in this case. If they couldn't confirm that she hadn't purchased a gun, then would this have even made the news? Probably in this current environment.
So she get denied, rents a box truck and waits outside the school?
Or the next one knows that there are FBI lists and avoids the check?
BGCs only work if a person accepts a couple false narrative about guns; guns are the problem, not the people AND guns are only acquired through legal means. The fact that most nutters can't do simple math works a lot in our favor but I don't think we can bank on it.
I'd say that background checks worked in this case. If they couldn't confirm that she hadn't purchased a gun, then would this have even made the news? Probably in this current environment.
So they keep a list of everyone who buys a gun? I thought a BGC was just to make sure that the purchaser is not a felon/criminal? So now any time someone goes crazy, or someone claims that person X is nuts, the police can go back and search to see if person X ever purchased a gun? That sounds like a registry which I thought was not allowed in CO?
I am just trying to connect all the dots here on this situation, and there are a lot of loose ends that don't match up so far.
I was just offering up a narrative in the event for calls of more control.
Little Dutch
04-17-2019, 13:41
So they keep a list of everyone who buys a gun? I thought a BGC was just to make sure that the purchaser is not a felon/criminal? So now any time someone goes crazy, or someone claims that person X is nuts, the police can go back and search to see if person X ever purchased a gun? That sounds like a registry which I thought was not allowed in CO?
I am just trying to connect all the dots here on this situation, and there are a lot of loose ends that don't match up so far.
Same question. There isn't supposed to be any record of the BGC.
Little Dutch
04-17-2019, 13:48
Self inflicted gunshot is what they are saying.
Any one mention what the model of that shotgun was? She bought it for turkey hunting, and it's supposedly a pump action. Just curios how a 5'5" person manages to suicide with a turkey gun.
I may be missing some details, but how does purchasing a gun, from a reputable dealer and passing background check, somehow alert authorities? If this person was on a "list" but was initially cleared by CBI to complete the purchase...what information did the authorities have access to after the gun purchase?
or she suck starts the shotgun due to the publicity.
Called it.
https://i.imgur.com/9064JRP.jpg
I'll go ahead and predict that the next gun control law pushed will be "Must be 21 for any firearm purchase" after this episode. The progressives said we needed background checks to keep everyone safe. Oooops. Now the goal posts have to move again.
Wait, aren't they pushing voting rights for 16 year olds?
Fucking insane libtards.
I may be missing some details, but how does purchasing a gun, from a reputable dealer and passing background check, somehow alert authorities? If this person was on a "list" but was initially cleared by CBI to complete the purchase...what information did the authorities have access to after the gun purchase?
It's a good question IMHO but some will call it conspiracy.
It's obvious to me there are lists. It's also obvious to me that NICS (CBI) doesn't just "check" records but creates a real-time record/datapoint that is used in conjunction with other datapoints of people on the list similar to the kind of risk analysis that has been done on folks in the ME. The timing on this offers no other explanation.
It is also curious to me that a FL FBI office, once again, had advance threat information and let that threat materialize (to some degree). Omar Mateen/Pulse, Nikolas Cruz/Parkland, now this.
^ This is just my opinion.
Aside from not wanting that info public, asking this question then begs the next one: Why wasn't she stopped if FL has red flag and CO has BGCs. Media won't touch that!
Lets not assume we know how any information was obtained...
As I said before, one of the easiest ways for them to determine "she bought a pump action shotgun" would be her credit card or bank statements, or her web history (And Colorado Gun Broker from Florida implies an online purchase with a credit card). If her parents did call it in, an investigator could've determined she bought a pump action shotgun online in about the first five minutes of showing up at the residence. (web--history).
hollohas
04-17-2019, 14:46
Chick must have stopped at a pot shop and purchased a few pounds of edibles too from the sounds of it.
Without naming the gun store, or Agency, I will say that "alphabet agency employees" showed up at a gym that is located in the same shopping center as the gun store yesterday afternoon looking for camera footage...because of the gun sale, so that makes me ask questions. A credit card pre-approval from any store, or even a completed transaction doesn't identify what was bought. But, yes, that information would lead to the place of business where the transaction occured. That is a great bit of information that I didn't think about.. At that point the ATF could legally ask for the records. But, if they were watching that person so closely, why not put a hold/flag on the gun purchase...I've been flagged for my common name if they don't use my SS#...they would have already know she was in Colorado and could have notified the CBI.
Not trying to start a conspiracy thread, but I have questions and appreciate the broad knowledge and opinions of the members here. I don't post much, may be the oldest "trading poll newbie" you guys have...I've never stolen a chainsaw and don't like IKEA...or rainbow ponies
newracer
04-17-2019, 16:01
The liberal masses are now saying that a waiting period would have prevented this.
newracer
04-17-2019, 16:03
Yes, but as FL resident I assume, so the gun store has to make sure they are following FL gun law as well.
I stand corrected, they do have to follow the laws of the state the person resides in.
The liberal masses are now saying that a waiting period would have prevented this.
So she arrives a week early then?
"My idea would have prevented this"
~ People who just realized their ideas didn't prevent this
Scanker19
04-17-2019, 16:25
The liberal masses are now saying that a waiting period would have prevented this.
Prevented what? Hysteria?
MileHighShooting
04-17-2019, 17:01
Still waiting for a crime to be committed.....
AFAIK, it's not yet a crime in CO to commit suicide
JohnnyDrama
04-17-2019, 17:23
Still waiting for a crime to be committed.....
AFAIK, it's not yet a crime in CO to commit suicide
Does the fact that this post gave me a chuckle make me a bad person?
Bailey Guns
04-17-2019, 17:40
I've never stolen a chainsaw and don't like IKEA...or rainbow ponies
I wasn't going to respond to this thread but now I'm compelled to. You belong in Idaho.
Does the fact that this post gave me a chuckle make me a bad person?
I don't think so.
whitewalrus
04-17-2019, 17:42
The liberal masses are now saying that a waiting period would have prevented this.
Laws PREVENT everything, if you pass enough of them... just ask them :)
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 18:27
At the time of this posting...we have "84 members and 496 guests".
newracer
04-17-2019, 18:38
Prevented what? Hysteria?
Prevented her from getting a firearm and taking her own life.
She was on someone's radar before she landed. So when a BGC was ran in her name why weren't authorities notified and the BGC delayed till they could go talk to her? Even if they didn't know she was in town they knew damn fast she had passed a BGC. Once the authorities have that info they go to store look at books and know what she bought, it's pretty simple.
Sooooo.....is this another Tuesday afternoon....in Florida?
She's dead. Suicide.
Welcome to page 10.
JohnnyDrama
04-17-2019, 19:49
Prevented her from getting a firearm and taking her own life.
That's it. This whole thing could have been avoided. Normally I'd say I'm sorry for her parents, but if they let her behavior get that kind out of control, I have to wonder how involved they were. Still, a loss.
Welcome to page 10.
[LOL]
So I can stop clearing my house now?
[panic]
BPTactical
04-17-2019, 20:06
[LOL]
So I can stop clearing my house now?
[panic]
No, continue in a stack formation with bayonets fixed.
You may resume.
No, continue in a stack formation with bayonets fixed.
You may resume.
DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THE BAYONETS!!!
Okay, I'm ready now.
https://imgur.com/EB0NezP.jpg
P.S. You know any good drywall guys?
That's it. This whole thing could have been avoided. Normally I'd say I'm sorry for her parents, but if they let her behavior get that kind out of control, I have to wonder how involved they were. Still, a loss.
I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with adults with even minor mental illness, or even major stubbornness, but it is never as simple as it appears from the sidelines.
Scanker19
04-17-2019, 20:38
Prevented her from getting a firearm and taking her own life.
No shit.
It was so fun arguing with libs on news sites today.
Pointing out their precious BGCs don't prevent potential criminals with zero criminal background from legally obtaining a gun.
Pointing out what soft targets schools are and how low of a priority school security is.
Arguing college students are not kids, and have the ability to protect themselves or decide to not go to school vs kids are compelled to go disarmed.
Welcome to page 10.
Page 10? It's still on page 4 as of this post.
yankeefan98121
04-17-2019, 21:39
Still waiting for a crime to be committed.....
AFAIK, it's not yet a crime in CO to commit suicide
^^^ This!
DavieD55
04-17-2019, 22:21
There might be a little truth to this story, but it is really obvious the government/phony mainstream media is manufacturing this into something much bigger than it is in order to push anger, fear and hysteria into the minds of morons.... to herd the morons and useful idiots towards supporting more socialist gun grabbing.
Holy hell, how could everyone but you have missed this?! That you help the rest of the world to see the truth is nothing but the purest generosity.
UrbanWolf
04-17-2019, 22:38
Hmmm-
Read this thread.
This was well planned in advance.
https://www.nationalgunforum.com/gun-laws-news-rights/196582-question-about-non-colorado-resident-buying-shotgun.html
So creepy to read knowing what happened today.
At least she got the murder-suicide order correct.
BushMasterBoy
04-17-2019, 22:55
Are they going to do a full forensic pathology screen i.e. drugs, disease etc? Or does she just get bagged & tagged?
JohnnyDrama
04-17-2019, 22:55
I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with adults with even minor mental illness, or even major stubbornness, but it is never as simple as it appears from the sidelines.
You are correct that it is never as simple from the sidelines. Many of the meetings I've had with "parents" are limited to the case workers.... I was thinking of her classmates...
Personally, as a dad with two kids who had to stay home from school because of this crazy bitch am very happy she siphoned a round out of that shotgun. Good riddance.
I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with adults with even minor mental illness, or even major stubbornness, but it is never as simple as it appears from the sidelines.
Life has many variables and nobody is assured safety. Try explaining that to a leftist looking for simple solutions.
Great-Kazoo
04-18-2019, 08:11
Life has many variables and nobody is assured safety. Try explaining that to a leftist looking for simple solutions.
For a leftist the solution's always, A tougher Gun Law
This morning a lot of people are keying in on "she did not make a specific threat."
And the gun control goalposts of non-solutions have been moved just after red flag was passed from someone having to allege there is a threat to "just generally dangerous without proof."
Anyone with a trigger finger is a potential mass shooter, just as anyone with a penis is a potential rapist.
ChickNorris
04-18-2019, 10:48
Anyone with a trigger finger is a potential mass shooter, just as anyone with a penis is a potential rapist.
Ummmm..... nevermind
; )
Rucker61
04-18-2019, 11:00
Ummmm..... nevermind
; )
Loaners don't count.
IMHO, just a sick person looking to gain widespread attention to their planned suicide.
Probably watched the whole thing unfold form a smartphone until suckstarting that shotty.
DireWolf
04-18-2019, 15:05
I don't know, but every time I try to put the tinfoil hat away, some weird shit goes down and I find myself still wearing it...
Normally I'd be all over the 'good riddance' theme, but the scent of bullshit is wafting around on this one, and I just can't make it there based on available info.
Just one example (among many) is, if they traced the weapon purchase based on CC transactions, how is it they were unable to trace the uber rides? (which should have been far simpler; can't use uber without both Card and Device)
Not saying she didn't have issues, but IMO (in this case) that may have simply made here an optimal subject for external/psychological manipulation...
One anomaly is chance, two likely coincidence, three (or more) is very likely conspiracy/deliberate action...
Bailey Guns
04-18-2019, 17:06
Do you know the FBI traced her gun purchase via a credit card? I read that agents and other LE visited shops around the area and that's how they found out where she bought the gun. I don't know if that's accurate.
Also, re: tracing credit cards... Couldn't she have done this anonymously with a Visa/MC gift/prepaid card?
newracer
04-18-2019, 17:55
My brother in law is an FFL, he got a text asking if he sold a firearm to her early in the morning on Tuesday. He lives in New Castle, so maybe they sent messages to all FFLs in the state.
DireWolf
04-18-2019, 19:16
Do you know the FBI traced her gun purchase via a credit card? I read that agents and other LE visited shops around the area and that's how they found out where she bought the gun. I don't know if that's accurate.
Also, re: tracing credit cards... Couldn't she have done this anonymously with a Visa/MC gift/prepaid card?
That was a bit of an assumption based on some things I had read, didn't know they had blasted a text out to all FFLs asking about it until just now.
But trying not to rush to judgment as this just doesn't seem on the level given timing and other oddities (once again, just based on what I've read so far).
As for cards, that's a good point. While (store-branded) gift cards are fully anonymous, my understanding is that general-use prepaid cards (Visa/MC/Amex/etc.) actually need to be registered prior to activation (related to anti money-laundering controls, though not sure how much actual verification goes into that; something to look into when I have time).
Well I didn't think of this and hasn't made the news "yet" but the COLORADO dealer was not supposed to sell her the gun.
Ooooops
(Quoted from an article on TRUTH ABOUT GUNS)
8 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS ?922. Unlawful acts
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver?
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee?s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee?s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Under federal law, it's legal to sell a gun to an out-of-state resident so long as the purchase would be legal in their home state.
GOP-lead legislature signed into law by Rick Scott outlawing the purchase of long guns by anyone under the age of 21.
FL Statute ?790.065 Sale and delivery of firearms.
(13) A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer. A person who violates this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The prohibitions of this subsection do not apply to the purchase of a rifle or shotgun by a law enforcement officer or correctional officer, as those terms are defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9), or a servicemember as defined in s. 250.01.
How long are we guessing BATF will make the announcement and then how long will it take for the family to sue the dealer?
Well I didn't think of this and hasn't made the news "yet" but the COLORADO dealer was not supposed to sell her the gun.
Ooooops
(Quoted from an article on TRUTH ABOUT GUNS)
Under federal law, it's legal to sell a gun to an out-of-state resident so long as the purchase would be legal in their home state.
GOP-lead legislature signed into law by Rick Scott outlawing the purchase of long guns by anyone under the age of 21.
How long are we guessing BATF will make the announcement and then how long will it take for the family to sue the dealer?
Except:
(c) This subsection does not apply to the purchase, trade, or transfer of a rifle or shotgun by a resident of this state when the resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in another state.
That was a bit of an assumption based on some things I had read, didn't know they had blasted a text out to all FFLs asking about it until just now.
But trying not to rush to judgment as this just doesn't seem on the level given timing and other oddities (once again, just based on what I've read so far).
As for cards, that's a good point. While (store-branded) gift cards are fully anonymous, my understanding is that general-use prepaid cards (Visa/MC/Amex/etc.) actually need to be registered prior to activation (related to anti money-laundering controls, though not sure how much actual verification goes into that; something to look into when I have time).
Negative. Pull the cardboard off the back and swipe it. No registration needed.
Except:
(c) This subsection does not apply to the purchase, trade, or transfer of a rifle or shotgun by a resident of this state when the resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in another state.
I will leave the legalities to experts, however I dont know if you quote is from Florida or CO? The new Florida clearly bars her from buying the gun.
What ever the case there will be some legal action taken on such a large media exposed case. What that looks like will not be pleasant the crap will have to hear and deal with.
hollohas
04-18-2019, 19:49
No doubt the family will sue the dealer.
I don't think the girl was part of any conspiracy. She was just plain nutso. But I do get a funny feeling the FBI blew this out of proportion with alternative motives. Seriously. She was obviously being watched, close. They were right on her trail the entire time. They knew where she was and had been faster than they have ever tracked anyone. But, they said they didn't even have probable cause for arrest? Why watch someone so closely with no probable cause? They expect us to believe that they just found out about her and her fucked up ideas the very morning she flew out here? And they were able to produce enough info on her that same morning to track down every stop she made? Either that's the MOST efficient FBI investigation in the history of the world, or they're blowing some kind of smoke up our asses.
No probable cause for arrest, but enough to shutdown every school in an entire metro area? I have 3 young school aged kids. And it was no problem for them to stay home a day this week. My wife enjoyed their company. No skin off our backs. But this was WAY overblown IMO. And it seems to me like it was on purpose. Not by local LE, I trust the JeffCo Sheriff. But overblown by the FBI.
If she's was that bad and her plans were so scary and the FBI knew SO much about her, why wasn't she picked up at DIA when she got off the plane? It stinks. Like a little mini Fast and Furious.
I will leave the legalities to experts, however I dont know if you quote is from Florida or CO? The new Florida clearly bars her from buying the gun.
What ever the case there will be some legal action taken on such a large media exposed case. What that looks like will not be pleasant the crap will have to hear and deal with.
It's Florida. 790.065
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.065.html
I didnt post the link because my phone has a terrible habit of deleting my drafted post if I change tabs.
Do credit card purchases usually show up the same day? Some of mine do, but some don't show up for several days. Usually it's the next day.
TEAMRICO
04-18-2019, 20:29
Im curious to know what type of ammo she purchased.
It's Florida. 790.065
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.065.html
I didnt post the link because my phone has a terrible habit of deleting my drafted post if I change tabs.
If I read that correctly (they sometimes can be confusing) that section you quoted is part of another section regarding the background check in Florida. If someone buys a firearm out of state the buyer doesn't have to go through a Florida background check as well. The additional rule no one under 21 to buy a long gun etc is on the ass end of the law (newest addition)
whitewalrus
04-18-2019, 20:37
Do credit card purchases usually show up the same day? Some of mine do, but some don't show up for several days. Usually it's the next day.
Mine show up right away as pending. A few days later they they are no longer pending. Credits seem to take longer.
Mine show up right away as pending. A few days later they they are no longer pending. Credits seem to take longer.
Those are not public, how fast does it take to get a warrant to search someones CC purchases?
While I think she was nuts, no major conspiracy here but something is not right, how it went down and the info we got, and the nonchalant introduction to the whole thing. It seemed overly hyped, she was not guilty of anything so they couldn't charge her? You make a threat against the Pres and they are at your freaking door. Red flag law, hello, guilty until proven innocent. Just something weird about it all and cant put my finger on it...................
Bailey Guns
04-18-2019, 21:25
Except:
(c) This subsection does not apply to the purchase, trade, or transfer of a rifle or shotgun by a resident of this state when the resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in another state.
I'm no lawyer but I believe you're reading that statute incorrectly. The FL statute starts by saying (I'm going to paraphrase parts that don't apply):
790.065 Sale and delivery of firearms.?
(1)(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may not sell or deliver from her or his inventory at her or his licensed premises any firearm to another person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, until she or he has:
1. Buyer must fill out a form
2. Dealer must collect fee
3. Requested NICS check
This is where I believe your quote runs into trouble...subsection 4:
4. Received a unique approval number for that inquiry from the Department of Law Enforcement, and recorded the date and such number on the consent form.
(b) However, if the person purchasing, or receiving delivery of, the firearm is a holder of a valid concealed weapons or firearms license pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06 or holds an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a ?law enforcement officer,? a ?correctional officer,? or a ?correctional probation officer? as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9), this subsection does not apply.
(c) This subsection does not apply to the purchase, trade, or transfer of a rifle or shotgun by a resident of this state when the resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in another state.
So it appears to me the section you quoted is simply saying subsection 4, getting the approval numbers, doesn't apply when the purchase is made in another state.
If you go way down to the bottom of the 790.065 to sub-section (13), it states:
(13) A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer. A person who violates this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The prohibitions of this subsection do not apply to the purchase of a rifle or shotgun by a law enforcement officer or correctional officer, as those terms are defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9), or a servicemember as defined in s. 250.01.
There is no provision below that which states an out of state purchase is exempt from the age limit.
It appears to me that the sale was not in compliance with FL law. But, again, that's just my interpretation of the law. I could very well be wrong.
Bailey Guns
04-18-2019, 21:29
Another thought that crossed my mind was this:
I wonder what effect all of the media hoopla had on this girl and the decisions she made. If I was in a strange place and heard the media and everyone else saying I was likely mentally disturbed, I had made threats, I was infatuated with the Columbine shootings, etc., I'd be pretty upset. If this girl was a bit unbalanced it just might've been enough to send her to the suicide route.
On the other hand, that also might've prevented her from doing something horrible to others. We'll just never know now.
BushMasterBoy
04-18-2019, 21:29
I figure when you come here and close the schools down for a couple hundred thousand public school students, that 3 letter agency with huge computing power gets involved. First camera I checked on COTRIP.org when this BOLO occured, was the I-70 and CO103 camera. I lived up there for a few years and it is beautiful. It just seems weird to die naked, alone and by suicide in such a cold and inhospitable place. My hypothesis is she was traumatized somehow. She had a PTSD reaction.
Supposedly 22 veterans a day commit suicide. First thing you hear when you call the VA phones, is press 7 if you feel suicidal. So I guess it is true.
I'm no lawyer but I believe you're reading that statute incorrectly. The FL statute starts by saying (I'm going to paraphrase parts that don't apply):
So it appears to me the section you quoted is simply saying subsection 4, getting the approval numbers, doesn't apply when the purchase is made in another state.
If you go way down to the bottom of the 790.065 to sub-section (13), it states:
There is no provision below that which states an out of state purchase is exempt from the age limit.
It appears to me that the sale was not in compliance with FL law. But, again, that's just my interpretation of the law. I could very well be wrong.
You make good points, but it does get complicated, AFAIK interstate commerce laws superseded any such argument as to purchase requirements (and it would be a weak argument at best even if they didn't). What REALLY matters is the legal age of possession in FL, which like all states, I'd hazard a guess that Florida doesn't even have an age for long-guns. Interstate commerce doesn't require that CO dealers comply with FL purchase requirements or vice versa, and it AFAIK waives any need for or any type of commerce to comply with purchase requirements of other states. Otherwise we couldn't sell long-guns to any non-state resident, due to technicalities - e.g. you could argue we cannot comply with FL regulations because we don't have to record a NCIS number, we don't haves licenses to do business in their state, etcetera, etcetera someone else who cares could actually dive into Florida. That's true of all commerce. If we had to comply with FL's purchase requirements for fruit, no CO business could sell fruit to FL residents, or "MJ" for that matter.
That said, the ownership laws have to be fully complied with as far as firearms are concerned, as others have already pointed, - e.g. cannot sell firearms including 30 round magazines to CA residents, or unmodified AR-15's to Connecticut, etc., and if FL prohibited the possession of a long gun by someone under 21, you would have to comply with that too. The fact that FL blocks the sale inside of FL to 18-20 yo is irrelevant if 18-20yo are otherwise legally permitted to possess.
You make good points, but it does get complicated, AFAIK interstate commerce laws superseded any such argument as to purchase requirements (and it would be a weak argument at best even if they didn't). What REALLY matters is the legal age of possession in FL, which like all states, I'd hazard a guess that Florida doesn't even have an age for long-guns. Interstate commerce doesn't require that CO dealers comply with FL purchase requirements or vice versa, and it AFAIK waives any need for or any type of commerce to comply with purchase requirements of other states. Otherwise we couldn't sell long-guns to any non-state resident, due to technicalities - e.g. you could argue we cannot comply with FL regulations because we don't have to record a NCIS number, we don't haves licenses to do business in their state, etcetera, etcetera someone else who cares could actually dive into Florida. That's true of all commerce. If we had to comply with FL's purchase requirements for fruit, no CO business could sell fruit to FL residents, or "MJ" for that matter.
That said, the ownership laws have to be fully complied with as far as firearms are concerned, as others have already pointed, - e.g. cannot sell firearms including 30 round magazines to CA residents, or unmodified AR-15's to Connecticut, etc., and if FL prohibited the possession of a long gun by someone under 21, you would have to comply with that too. The fact that FL blocks the sale inside of FL to 18-20 yo is irrelevant if 18-20yo are otherwise legally permitted to possess.
More points to the argument but we can let the lawyers argue all the laws applicable, it was said early we can probably guarantee legal action from family. There is lawyers probably already salivating on the family's doorstep to make a name for themselves. I wish it was not so, sympathy for the dealer on this.
newracer
04-18-2019, 22:30
Reported on the news tonight that ATF has reviewed the sale and deemed it was a legal sale. Said the Florida law only applies when the purchaser is in Florida.
Indeed. Florida law applies to Florida. Since when does Florida state law supersede Colorado state law...in Colorado?
Reported on the news tonight that ATF has reviewed the sale and deemed it was a legal sale. Said the Florida law only applies when the purchaser is in Florida.
Phew! relief for the dealer. Still a civil suit on its own may still be damaging. Anyone been to this dealer? Anyone on here works there? I have never been there, too far south for my donkeys travels.
Bailey Guns
04-19-2019, 08:33
Indeed. Florida law applies to Florida. Since when does Florida state law supersede Colorado state law...in Colorado?
It's not about FL law superseding CO law. It's the provision in federal law that states FL law (in this case) would have to be followed that would matter. It wouldn't be the state of FL that would prosecute...it would be the federal government.
But if the ATF and CO law enforcement says it was legal, then that's a good thing.
And I do know the owner of that shop. His shop was in his dad's building when he first started out and dad's property was next door to mine. Great family. I've bought many guns from Josh. I'll be very happy to see this all put behind him.
GeorgeandSugar
04-19-2019, 10:55
A good reason to call out the local militia to buttress the local police. I would have stood guard (along with other militia members) at a local school. A show of force is always a deterrent to thugs.
However, that is too old-fashion to suggest, we the people cannot take an active role in our communities.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Will1776
04-19-2019, 11:01
Reported on the news tonight that ATF has reviewed the sale and deemed it was a legal sale. Said the Florida law only applies when the purchaser is in Florida.
Good to hear.
Someone might have mentioned this in 10 pages, but long gun surrounding state purchase.
She had different state id? FL id?
Did law change?
Sorry didn't read much of this.
Thanks.
Someone might have mentioned this in 10 pages, but long gun surrounding state purchase.
She had different state id? FL id?
Did law change?
Sorry didn't read much of this.
Thanks.
Yes, I believe it may have been mentioned.
Martinjmpr
04-19-2019, 12:40
Those are not public, how fast does it take to get a warrant to search someones CC purchases?
You don't need a warrant or a court order, all you need is the cooperation of the credit card company (which they are usually only too happy to provide.)
Your credit card charges are not privileged information any more than the phone numbers you dial from your phone are privileged information (and the cops can obtain those without a warrant too.)
Aloha_Shooter
04-19-2019, 13:26
I did wonder myself about whether all the media attention might drive her to extreme actions she wouldn't otherwise take (suicide). Having said that, I'd rather she suicided than commit homicide. While I wonder a little whether it might not have been more effective to have a less visible/less vocal but highly defensive approach (e.g., armed cops at each area school and ramped up security at entrances/exits), just think what a mess it would be right now if she HAD been intent on doing a Harris/Klebold act and had succeeded with even one child.
After Parkland, I think most of us said the sheriff's office should have been more on-the-ball, more proactive. I can't bring myself to criticize THIS sheriff's office for being exactly that.
GeorgeandSugar
04-19-2019, 16:03
Florida Woman Buys Shotgun in Colorado
?There was a significant kerfuffle after an 18-year-old Florida woman purchased a shotgun in Colorado. The woman was reportedly obsessed with the Columbine shooters, made ?credible threats? to Denver area schools, traveled to Colorado, and then committed suicide. People are enraged that she was able to purchase the gun in Colorado, something she wouldn?t have been able to do in Florida.
This isn?t a ridiculous failure of the law, but an ordinary difference in state policy. In most states, 18-year-old adults can purchase long guns and shotguns. Florida recently raised that age to 21.
If Florida raised the age to buy tobacco products to 21, and a Floridian purchased cigarettes in Georgia at 18, would we think it a massive flaw in the legal system? I think not. Some point to a component of Federal law that allows interstate sales only when it ?complies with both states,? but that isn?t as simple as it seems.
Florida law applies differently to possession and purchase, and conditions placed squarely on Florida dealers cannot carry the same force in Colorado. We have a system of dueling state-and-federal sovereignty. It?s called Federalism. The suicidal woman?s ability to acquire a shotgun is endemic of nothing.?
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/04/matthew-larosiere/ttag-weekly-gun-law-roundup-slippery-nyc-the-ninth-again-and-a-colorado-sale/?utm_source=wideopen&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wideopen&utm_content=%5B%5Brssitem_title%5D%5D
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
BushMasterBoy
04-19-2019, 17:21
The recurring issue in this thread is "jurisdiction". Colorado law does not apply in Florida and vice versa.
Same with Mexico, you can legally have sex with an underage person, but in Colorado you can be charged as a child rapist. Having an ounce of marijuana in the UK can get you a prison sentence,in Colorado it is legal. Where a certain act occurs is considered "jurisdiction". Anybody have a cassowary I can adopt?
Welcome to page 10.
I check a few pages here and there to view the arc of the discussion.
She's still dead.
I check a few pages here and there to view the arc of the discussion.
She's still dead.
So is Generalissimo Francisco Franco.
So is Generalissimo Francisco Franco.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DelayedUnsightlyHamster-max-1mb.gif
Too sad.. a troubled teen that killed herself because she wasnt able to get the help she needed. A prime example of the failure of the gun control movement where 100% of the focus is on the gun and there is absolutely zero regard or desire for helping a fellow human being in a position of need.
Too sad.. a troubled teen that killed herself because she wasnt able to get the help she needed. A prime example of the failure of the gun control movement where 100% of the focus is on the gun and there is absolutely zero regard or desire for helping a fellow human being in a position of need.
I strongly agree with this.
Too sad.. a troubled teen that killed herself because she wasnt able to get the help she needed. A prime example of the failure of the gun control movement where 100% of the focus is on the gun and there is absolutely zero regard or desire for helping a fellow human being in a position of need.
I strongly agree with this.
Amen brother................
OneGuy67
04-20-2019, 11:07
She flew in on Monday and took an Uber to the gun store where she bought the shotgun lawfully. She then took another Uber to the Mt Evans area and got out carrying a cased shotgun and a duffel bag. She did not have adequate clothing or camping materials for the area and conditions. She shot herself just off the trail and she was found still wearing the clothing she flew to Denver in.
Her parents notified local law enforcement on Monday who, after reviewing online writings notified the local FBI office on Tuesday, who then notified the Denver FBI office. She was already dead before her information hit the news.
This was an incredible over reaction all around.
mahabali
04-23-2019, 13:46
She flew in on Monday and took an Uber to the gun store where she bought the shotgun lawfully. She then took another Uber to the Mt Evans area and got out carrying a cased shotgun and a duffel bag. She did not have adequate clothing or camping materials for the area and conditions. She shot herself just off the trail and she was found still wearing the clothing she flew to Denver in.
Her parents notified local law enforcement on Monday who, after reviewing online writings notified the local FBI office on Tuesday, who then notified the Denver FBI office. She was already dead before her information hit the news.
This was an incredible over reaction all around.
Source on this?
ChadAmberg
04-23-2019, 14:21
Source on this?
This is what I've been reading for days now. She never even knew they were out to get her.
BPTactical
04-23-2019, 15:24
Source on this?
Just trust what he says.
https://abc7news.com/columbine-infatuated-teens-death-likely-preceded-manhunt-official/5262089/
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/sol-pais-columbine-obsessed-florida-teen-likely-killed-herself-in-colorado-days-before-manhunt
Scanker19
04-23-2019, 16:51
I’d like to know what metric they used to describe “infatuated.”
I’d like to know what metric they used to describe “infatuated.”
I could make a solid argument that the local media is infatuated with Columbine.
BPTactical
04-23-2019, 18:10
I could make a solid argument that the local media is infatuated with Columbine.
Amen.
This entire last week was all about the 20th anniversary.
Ridiculous.
Just let it go, never forget it but let it go.
.455_Hunter
04-23-2019, 18:26
I could make a solid argument that the local media is infatuated with Columbine.
Yes.
I think they did articles about every aspect of Columbine EXCEPT one about Patrick Neville.
Three school LOCKDOWNs over the last couple of days. Two turned out to be nothing. Last one (BVSD) is still breaking.
Wonder if schools/LE have heard something?
https://imgur.com/YrR5X16.jpg
https://imgur.com/K8iljMu.jpg
https://imgur.com/YKrTlUm.jpg
I'll bet they lock down if a student picks up a stick and pretends the stick is a gun.
I wonder how many students and sticks it would take to lock down every front range school.
I'll bet they lock down if a student picks up a stick and pretends the stick is a gun.
I wonder how many students and sticks it would take to lock down every front range school.
We already know that answer: 1.
This is doing nothing but creating a climate of persistent fear and you see it in the responses of all the concerned parents who have an expectation of safety in public schools.
We already know that answer: 1.
This is doing nothing but creating a climate of persistent fear and you see it in the responses of all the concerned parents who have an unrealistic expectation of safety in public schools that are largely unprotected from any real threats.
FIFY.
I remember bringing cap guns to school to play cowboys at recess. The teacher made me keep them in the desk during class, denying my right to carry my sidearms while educatin'... Liberals. Then at recess, I was back, blasting all over school grounds with two six shooters. Now, If I was born more recently...
.455_Hunter
04-24-2019, 17:49
More conditioning for kids to be scared of their own shadows instead of learning threat assessment and response management.
I wonder what the "ammo" found a couple day ago was?
largely unprotected from any real threats.
FIFY.
Truth!
And that is what makes this so frightening. They say "LOCKDOWN!" and provide no details on the scope of the threat or LE presence. Gives the impression that a mass shooting is imminent and the kids are sitting ducks.
BVSD incident is over. Nothing found. Anonymous tip.
In the McGlone, the student has been charged with felony menacing. So there is likely more to that than just "took an airsoft gun to school."
SideShow Bob
04-24-2019, 18:31
I wonder what the "ammo" found a couple day ago was?
The maint. guy dropped a bunch of #2 Phillips bits out of his tool bag and didn?t notice, then was discovered by a teacher....... [Tooth]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190425/9a3c0f56ff90fabebe1c3db5e986b2f8.jpg
Aloha_Shooter
04-24-2019, 19:43
In the McGlone, the student has been charged with felony menacing. So there is likely more to that than just "took an airsoft gun to school."
Except that with today's snowflakes, just wearing a MAGA hat or a tee-shirt that recites the Second Amendment could probably be taken as felony menacing in Denver ...
BPTactical
04-24-2019, 20:31
Was hearing this morning that Pais had capped herself long before the lockdown orders were given. Like she went directly to the gun shop from the airport then to Echo lake and pffft.
Makes the entire response more curious.
The maint. guy dropped a bunch of #2 Phillips bits out of his tool bag and didn?t notice, then was discovered by a teacher....... [Tooth]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190425/9a3c0f56ff90fabebe1c3db5e986b2f8.jpg
Looks like a T-30 there. Nobody needs a T-30 to hunt deer. That's a weapon of war only meant for killing people.
I so want to spread a few 22lr casings around various schools to see the nut jobs panic.
Are you serious!?
This is why we can?t have nice things.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hurley842002
04-25-2019, 06:50
I so want to spread a few 22lr casings around various schools to see the nut jobs panic.Wtf is wrong with you.
A question I have.
How was the gun purchase tracked so fast if it took them so long to find a body. In CO it is noy legal to keep records (except at FFL) of a gun purchase. So, how did they know what gun/where purchased/etc? It seems that they knew she bought a gun, where she bought a gun with their investigative powers, but they couldnt find where the driver dropped her off?
Why didnt they just asked the driver on Monday where he dropped her off?
Either they had a record of the gun purchase, or they used CC info. But if they had CC info, then they knew the driver. And the under-sheriff said she "went dark" and did use phone/CC.
"She went dark," he said. "There was no digital footprint anywhere. No phone. No credit card use. To me, that pointed to a near impossibility that this ill-equipped, 18-year-old teenage woman would fly from sea level in Florida to Colorado and then go up into the mountains with plans to go on a killing spree."
So, if there was no "digital footprint" how did they know she bought a gun.
BushMasterBoy
04-25-2019, 08:57
"So, if there was no "digital footprint" how did they know she bought a gun."
"To meet these threats, our national leaders, military leaders, policy makers and law enforcement personnel must understand who our adversaries are, where they are, and what their capabilities, plans and intentions are. At the same time, we must ensure that we protect our own national security information from those who would do us harm. These are the capabilities that the National Security Agency provides to our nation, to our leaders and to our fellow Americans 24 hours a day, seven days a week."
Ugh, didn't we cover this?
The dealer was "Colorado Gun Broker LLC". I'd hazard a safe guess she bought it on gunbroker.com before she even left Florida (most likely, paying by CC on top of it). And when her parents called police, what would they search first....
Another one today.
And look at the first post...
https://twitter.com/DenverChannel/status/1121481104194719747
https://imgur.com/E8YECiQ.jpg
2019 vouge method to ditch a test (student) or work (everyone else) while pushing agenda. Not like the daycare system educates anyone anyway.
2019 vouge method to ditch a test (student) or work (everyone else) while pushing agenda. Not like the daycare system educates anyone anyway.
That explains the anonymous Safe2Tell threats/info.
Doesn't explain the district/school/LE paranoia.
Agenda explains some of this but they are risking a major backfire. Each of these incidents messages loud and clear that the kids are sitting ducks and the only option is to LOCKDOWN/close the schools.
Should BVSD even have classes?
.455_Hunter
04-25-2019, 13:42
That explains the anonymous Safe2Tell threats/info.
Doesn't explain the district/school/LE paranoia.
Agenda explains some of this but they are risking a major backfire. Each of these incidents messages loud and clear that the kids are sitting ducks and the only option is to LOCKDOWN/close the schools.
Should BVSD even have classes?
Agree 100%- Why has the default answer for essentially any "viable" threat now become close the school(s)?
Why do we pay the salaries of these people if the default answer is to punt the student's security back to the parents?
I guess to just "keep calm and carry on" with an increase in armed surveillance and overwatch of the campus would be too scary?
Agree 100%- Why has the default answer for essentially any threat "viable" threat now become close the school(s)?
Why do we pay the salaries of these people if the default answer is to punt the student's security back to the parents?
I guess to just "keep calm and carry on" with an increase in armed surveillance and overwatch of the campus would be too scary?
If the police would punt the security of schools back to parents, at least teh semi-rural /rural areas, there wouldnt be issues.
My thought when this happened...
Have sheriffs train/screen a group of parents from each school. Have them at the ready. If there is a threat that they are afraid someone will show up call out the posse (or reserves or whatever you want to call them) and have them bring their own weapons to guard the school.
A handful of parents whose kids are in the school...no one will hurt those kids...
The parents have a reason, other than a paycheck, to make sure the kids are safe...
Hire retired LEOs/MIL. Let them double-dip (if that's a problem). No uniforms, all concealed. They can look like teachers/paras. Deputize them so they have arrest powers (that costs nothing).
We spend gazillions on public education, per pupil funding in CO is around what $10K? The math on that is astonishing: $270K/classroom, $4M/grade school. Plenty of that money is given to Liberal orgs for progressive curricula and "consultants." Carve some out some funds and buy a couple of armed security positions per day/school. Maybe part time schedules if the security folks don't want to work five days.
Should be a higher paid position than a teacher because it appears the teachers cannot keep the schools open and teach!
And yes, get rid of this gun-free zone BS. If parents want to volunteer they should be able to do so. If a threat is received there should be a call list. I could 100% do that in the position I'm in now.
.455_Hunter
04-25-2019, 15:39
If the police would punt the security of schools back to parents, at least teh semi-rural /rural areas, there wouldnt be issues.
I agree with you folks, but my "punt student security back to the parents" was implying the de facto nature of the situation when the school is closed (kids are with parents) versus instilling parents as a critical part of the school physical security regimen.
hollohas
04-25-2019, 17:25
So, if there was no "digital footprint" how did they know she bought a gun.
She must have went dark after the Uber ride cause I'm pretty sure Uber doesn't take cash. My guess is she went digitally dark at the same time her lights went out. So yeah, they should have known exactly where she was.
Are you serious!?
This is why we can?t have nice things.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. Enough false flags and the parents growing sick of not having the free daycare open because of scrap metal found, they might actually get real and institute real security.
It would also desensitize the populace when finding scrap metal is an everyday thing. Much like spent needles on cherry creek.
thedave1164
04-25-2019, 18:44
I found a live .22 Mag cartridge at a HS auditorium years ago, made the mistake of telling someone about it, will never do that again.......
.455_Hunter
04-25-2019, 19:52
I often carried a novel live cartridge (like a .401 SLR FMJ) as a good luck charm when I was at Boulder High. Now I worry that some fired .22 brass might get caught in my son's sweatshirt pocket and fall out at his middle school. How fucking pathetic is the current environment....
OtterbatHellcat
04-25-2019, 20:19
It's going to get worse than it is now, I fear.
Yes. Enough false flags and the parents growing sick of not having the free daycare open because of scrap metal found, they might actually get real and institute real security.
It would also desensitize the populace when finding scrap metal is an everyday thing. Much like spent needles on cherry creek.
So you think staging spent brass around a school will get overly sensitive parents to band together and force their school boards to institute real security?
I?d imagine that will work about as well as a leftist leaving Mom?s Demand Action flyers all over your lawn at convincing you to melt your guns down into eco-friendly lawn ornaments.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think any individual action is going to reverse the psyops. And unless I hear that LE had some unique and unreleased intel about last week, I'm convinced that's exactly what we are seeing being used against us.
People are being conditioned to fear supposed symbols of violence while ignoring the actual casual violence of the blue city/state.
This was a day before last week's hysteria...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/439205-hickenlooper-meets-with-columbine-school-shooting-survivors
You'll find a video with Hickenlooper (no longer in state gov) and Rapsheet Rhonda (jack shit to do with Columbine).
Coroner: Woman obsessed with Columbine, Sol Pais, died before warnings
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/coroner-woman-obsessed-with-columbine-sol-pais-died-before-warnings
An autopsy summary by the Clear Creek County coroner estimated that 18-year-old Sol Pais likely died on April 15 — the day authorities said she flew to Denver from Miami. The FBI's Denver office said it learned of Pais' travel the following morning. Agents also learned the day after she died that Pais had gone directly to a gun store from the airport and purchased a shotgun and ammunition.
Pais was already dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound by the time agents began retracing her steps, according to the coroner's initial autopsy findings.
[snip]
Columbine and other schools tightened security the afternoon of April 16 and closed entirely on April 17 when authorities still had not located Pais. She never threatened a specific school, authorities said.
BPTactical
05-02-2019, 12:34
Was hearing this morning that Pais had capped herself long before the lockdown orders were given. Like she went directly to the gun shop from the airport then to Echo lake and pffft.
Makes the entire response more curious.
Validated by the above statement.
Thanks Skip
Validated by the above statement.
Thanks Skip
I'm just glad we finally got the "all clear" from media.
I haven't left the house...
.455_Hunter
05-02-2019, 13:33
I'm just glad we finally got the "all clear" from media.
I haven't left the house...
Be afraid, be very afraid...
Only full implementation of the progressive agenda can save you.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.