Alec Baldwin Shoots two, Kills One

[eddiememphis]

https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/sheriffs-office-alec-baldwins-prop-firearm-kills-one-injures-another/article_9612afc6-32c5-11ec-9e2e-e3cc47b69ce5.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

The Sheriff’s office said in a statement that Hutchins and Souza “were shot when a prop firearm was discharged by Alec Baldwin, 68, producer and actor.”

[MrPrena]

This one is probably on a guys who are in charge of firearms for movie set.

[eddiememphis]

He will still use it as fodder for his anti-gun nonsense. He will say how dangerous even fake guns are and no one should have one, blah blah.

[.455_Hunter]

I would assume another Brandon Lee type incident?

[Vic Tory]

I don't like Alec B. And I wouldn't wish this kind of thing on even him.

[Great-Kazoo]

I would assume another Brandon Lee type incident?

Unknown atm. HOWEVER trolling the daily yeast. It's not surprising, since it's one of their own. How many are saying "we need to wait, to know what really happened" While i'm explaining and asking, why wait? If it was someone other than their own. Would you not be calling for the harshest sentence, as well as DOING SOMETHING ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE?

Instead you're all saying, if only we wait for the real story.

The hypocrisy is so blatant it's pathetic.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Sounds like an episode of Colombo.

[BREATHER]

I guess old Alec just is not as smart as he thought he was..

[Bailey Guns]

I don't give a rat's ass about Baldwin. I couldn't care less what happens to him. He's proven time and again what an awful person he is and he's not worthy of an ounce of concern as far as I'm concerned.

Although I don't know his victims, I'd be far more concerned about them and their families.

[theGinsue]

The irony in this case is that the movie they are shooting is about a bad guy (Baldwin) breaking his some out of a Kansas jail where the son was waiting to hang for his conviction on committing an "accidental murder".

[hollohas]

The weird part is the two shot were not other actors. They were crew. So he wasn't filming a scene that required the firing of a prop gun pointed at another actor. He was pointing a gun at people he shouldn't have been pointing it at, presumably off camera.

[O2HeN2]

The weird part is the two shot were not other actors. They were crew. So he wasn't filming a scene that required the firing of a prop gun pointed at another actor. He was pointing a gun at people he shouldn't have been pointing it at, presumably off camera.
Conjecture is that it was a shot being filmed with the firearm pointed at the camera - behind which the two people hit would be positioned.

O2

[hollohas]

Conjecture is that it was a shot being filmed with the firearm pointed at the camera - behind which the two people hit would be positioned.

O2Ah. That makes sense.

[.455_Hunter]

Unknown atm. HOWEVER trolling the daily yeast. It's not surprising, since it's one of their own. How many are saying "we need to wait, to know what really happened" While i'm explaining and asking, why wait? If it was someone other than their own. Would you not be calling for the harshest sentence, as well as DOING SOMETHING ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE?

Instead you're all saying, if only we wait for the real story.

The hypocrisy is so blatant it's pathetic.


To whom is this response directed? I am not quite following your discussion.

[eddiememphis]

Good thing this wasn't a remake of The Deer Hunter

I have already read about calls from within "the industry" that all guns should be banned from movie sets.

I am certain Baldwin will blame someone else, proving yet again what vapid dolts actors are.

[.455_Hunter]

I have already read about calls from within "the industry" that all guns should be banned from movie sets.


Yes- Make every action movie use starter and blank-only pistols like this documentary on the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout...

https://youtu.be/n5UVkNhqi_k

Wouldn't that be fun!

[Ah Pook]

He will still use it as fodder for his anti-gun nonsense. He will say how dangerous even fake guns are and no one should have one, blah blah.

I’d like to see it as an anti-Baldwin initiative.

[00tec]

This didn't age well

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlecBaldwln____/status/911425278123048960

[Aloha_Shooter]

The propmaster surely deserves some blame for this, just as in the Brandon Lee incident, but shouldn't someone who has FREQUENTLY been in films using prop firearms take the responsibility to learn how to verify the firearm is safe when receiving it from props? If nothing else, he doesn't want the prop blowing up in his own hands from a blocked barrel. Maybe I'm just crotchety about safety having taught Boy Scouts and been an RSO ...

If Hollywood is serious about their anti-gun message then the solution is simple: quit making action movies or any media that involves firearms. Guaranteed to turn out like Kelly Sue Deconnick telling comic book fans to stop buying her book if they don't like the politics she interjects in her writing. They did stop, her titles have tanked. Marvel and DC comics are so garbage now that many comic book shops have turned to selling only/mainly back issues to the collectors' market or simply folded.

[ChadAmberg]

This is from a buddy of mine Chris Byrne. Long read but it talks about how firearms are to be handled on the set:


Sometimes, union rules are actually a good thing, and even a CRITICAL thing...
At least TWO people... OTHER THAN ALEC BALDWIN... Two people who had had an absolute professional and legal responsibility to do so... negligently failed to follow SEVERAL union and guild mandated cast and crew safety, and propmaster/firearms masters safety rules...
..they've been around since Hexum for damn good reason, and if you follow them they work...
....And a woman's life was violently ended as a result...
Never mind the injuries to bystanders, the damage to the families of the people involved...
...and it must be said, not the least of which is the serious emotional and spiritual damage done to Baldwin himself; having... however unwitting and without intent or malice... ended this woman's life, by his own hand. He has to deal with that, and live with that, for the rest of his life.
Don't dismiss that just because Baldwin is... Baldwin... and all the baggage that does along with him. Nobody deserves anything remotely like what happened here, to happen to them...
Also, don't fall into the trap of blaming Baldwin... even if you think he "deserved" it... Or even if like most in American firearms and shooting culture, every rule and instinct you've internalized over your entire lifetime of shooting says "the person in control of the firearm is always responsible for everything that happens with that firearm. And for making sure they don't shoot someone or something they didn't intend to shoot".
Simply put, that's not... and couldn't possibly be... how firearms safety in film and theatrical productions works. Baldwin is simply and absolutely NOT even partially responsible for this, unless he somehow deliberately circumvented firearms safety protocols AND prevented at least two other people whose ENTIRE JOB is making sure the rules get followed, from following those rules as well.
Film and theatrical production firearms safety protocols are designed specifically such that before the firearm is ever put into the actors hand (or even placed in an unsecured location on the set where someone... in the scene or not... even MIGHT pick it up) TWO OTHER PEOPLE are clearly and explicitly responsible for the firearm and ammunition not being in a condition (and the people around the actor and the firearm NOT be in a position or condition) such that once the firearm is put in the actors hand or even anywhere insecure on the set; anything the actor, or anyone else present, MIGHT foreseeable do in the course of the scene (intentionally or accidentally), or with the firearm, could under any reasonably foreseeable consideration or circumstance, have anything more than a remote chance of serious injury occurring.
Yes, of course,, the four rules... All firearms are always loaded at all times, Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to harm kill or destroy, always be sure of your target and what's around and beyond it, always keep your finger off the trigger until and unless you are prepared to fire...
Except NOT...
Actually think for a minute, don't just react by rote and reflex with dogma...
The four rules could not possibly work for film production.
That is literally the entire point of film production firearm safety protocols. Two competent responsible authorities are specifically and explicitly required to ensure that any reasonably foreseeable action taken in the scene with the firearm, will not result in any reasonably foreseeable CHANCE of serious harm happening.
That may mean that they use a simulated firearm with a plugged or restricted barrel and a propane or butane spark popper be used to simulate the firing... or that they use a nonfunctional replica and cgi the shots in post production.
That may mean using a fully functional firearm, but using a different kind of theatrical simulant ammunition that can make a loud bang and flash but not propel even hot gasses and powder residue with enough energy to cause serious harm... In which case it is also those same two peoples responsibility that there is NEVER ANY LIVE AMMO ON THE SET, at the same time as a fully functional firearm is also on the set.
It may mean setting up trickery with camera angles and blocking of the actors, and setting up a clear protective barrier in between the firearm and any potentially harmed persons.
The point being that there are always multiple options that allow the production to get the shots they need, while still minimizing any risk of harm..... and there are always TWO people responsible for making sure it gets done in the way that does minimize that risk, and does NOT get done in a manner that presents any more risk than necessary.
...And none of those people are the actors in the scene... they can't be... their job is to act out the scene.
Under these mandatory safety protocols, at least TWO of the following people: the propmaster, firearms master, firearms coordinator,, safety coordinator, stunt coordinator, and under some circumstances the director and/or assistant director (or sometimes more than 2 of them)... are specifically and explicitly responsible for this... NOT THE ACTORS THEMSElVES...
Yes, this goes against every instinct we as shooters have drilled into us over our lives in order to safely handle firearms... But its absolutely necessary that someone other than the actors themselves MUST be responsible for ensuring the safe handling and operation of the firearms in the scene, because the ENTIRE POINT of staging such a scene, is that the actors must be able to realistically and convincingly perform and appear to the audience and the camera, to actually be shooting the firearm at their intended target.
The whole system is designed to let them be as convincing and realistic as possible and NOT have to think about "Ok I actually have to make sure I'm not really doing what I'm supposed to look like I'm doing"... which would certainly result in both unrealistic performances AND the actors screwing up and hurting people unintentionally anyway.
So... as absolutely wrong as it may feel to most experienced shooters, no, Baldwin is NOT responsible for that woman's death.
If someone is not familiar with the Hexum incident...
In 1984, during an unexpectedly long wait between filming two scenes involving loading and firing a .44 revolver, young model and actor Jon-erik Hexum was pretending to play Russian roulette. The scene he was waiting to film involved firing "blank" cartridges, and a fully functional firearm was used, with what were at the time standard full powder charge theatrical "blanks".
Hexum was playing with the revolver and "blank" cartridges, unloading all the cartridges, then reloading the cylinder with a single "blank", spinning the cylinder and closing it. Pressing the muzzle of the revolver directly to his temple, and pulling the trigger, which by chance dropped the hammer on the loaded chamber igniting the "blank" cartridge. Although there was no "bullet" in the "blank", there was a cardboard end seal with some inert filler or "wadding"... this keeps the powder in the "blank" from shifting, spilling, getting moist with humidity etc... this cardboard was propelled out the muzzle of the revolver by the powder charge of the "blank" with enough force, that when pressed up against the thin point of his temple, the cardboard and the hot powder gasses themselves, had enough energy and momentum to fracture Hexums skull, and propel the fractured bone fragments into his brain, resulting in severe brain damage, and hemorrhaging in his brain. A few hours later, Hexum died from this injury.
In the aftermath of Hexums death, all the major North American film, television, and stage guilds and unions, adopted uniform and MANDATORY rules for safe handling of firearms, ammunition, and stage/theatrical simulants thereof (generally referred to as firearms safety protocols). If firearms or stage simulants (or realistic firearm replicas which may be used in a manner that has the potential to cause injury) are used in a scene, or even on a set but not used in a scene... if they're even PRESENT outside of safe secured storage... then firearms safety protocols are in effect, and all the rules must always be followed by everyone other set (whether they are involved in the scene or production or not). Period....
...No U.S. union/guild production following those rules (or non union/guild production that followed them that I know of for that matter), has had a fatality or serious injury from either a stage simulant firearm (a propane/flammable gas/flammable liquid, compressed gas, or reduced power powder charge plugged or restricted bore blank/stage simulant cartridge firing replica), or a fully functional firearm using blank/stage simulant cartridges.
The worst injuries that have happened that I know of, when they actually followed the rules... or even when they only violated ONE of the rules, not two or more... are some hot gas and debris in the eyes, or the surface of the skin (hands and cheeks seem to be the common areas), a couple people have had a slightly more serious injury by violating one of the major rules BUT NOT TWO at once.. And a few people have had some hearing damage or even a perforated ear drum (from the muzzle being too close to someone's ear, and them not wearing hearing protection... Its recommended for everyone in a scene where a firearm or stage simulant will be set off, but its not actually required by rule, and many performers don't want their hearing or their reactions to be impacted by the hearing protection... its their choice).
At least six US productions since Hexum that I know of have failed to follow at least two of the rules, and have experienced fatalities or critical injuries as a direct result.... the most famous of course being Brandon Lee... this makes seven.

[00tec]

I just read an article that many of the union crew left about 6 hours prior to the incident and were replaced by a local crew.
The article also indicated there were 2 "misfires" with the prop gun on Saturday and another last week.

[FoxtArt]

Based on the Brandon Lee case, if they were using squibs (powder removed) rounds during the earlier days, they very likely could've gotten a bullet stuck in the barrel. The squibs would be used to film scenes that show the ammunition, so it looks normal. They should have the primers removed to avoid that.

After getting a bullet stuck in the barrel, if they used blanks the following day, it could clear most of the safety checks and still launch that sucker with nearly the full muzzle energy of proper ammunition. And being we don't know what is in a blank round (likely faster burning powder, likely over-loaded) it M.E. may be unpredictable and might even exceed factory pressures/specs.

In any event, it sounds like that is a likely possibility instead of "someone didn't notice it had bullets". It also very closely mirrors the Brandon Lee case.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'm not involved in any film production whatsoever and I do place primary blame on the individuals charged with ensuring firearm safety on set but I disagree with the idea that the actors are not themselves responsible for checking things for themselves. Mechanics are responsible for the maintenance of commercial aircraft but there's a reason the pilots are supposed to do a preflight. If they don't want that responsibility, they can stick to films that don't involve them handling firearms.

[Fromk]

My wife works in props for the theatre and has regaled me with all the rules and regulations that go along with prop firearms. While working at a range in California that would occasionally host a studio shoot I had the opportunity to pick up a lot of the rules. I don't really have an opinion on what happened other than it is terrible for everyone involved. Just a little insight to add to that huge article a couple posts up.

There's one final rule if you're firing a prop gun regardless of the distance. You don't point it directly at someone. If all the other safety protocols fail you have that last step when the trigger is pulled. A decent cinematographer/camera operator will set up a shot so you can't tell. If you've ever watched a movie or show and clearly sees the actor pointing the gun to the side it's what they're supposed to be doing. It just wasn't captured well. I would have thought Alec has had enough experience to know that. As I understand the shot was him pointing the gun at the camera hence the cinematographer losing her life.

[BushMasterBoy]

wadcutters vs blanks

[Great-Kazoo]

To whom is this response directed? I am not quite following your discussion.

Those on the DB who continue to say. We need to wait, for the report. Not one person on the left, at least on the DB has a clue about guns. Instead of acknowledging someone like baldwin, who talks tough on guns, has no clue regarding handling, safety, etc. Is wondering how live ammo was used, and laying blame on the prop guys /gals.

[flogger]

Interesting read! It will be interesting to see how this all plays out with working conditions in question and lots of other rumors.

Bad situation all around.

[Vic Tory]

This.


I'm not involved in any film production whatsoever and I do place primary blame on the individuals charged with ensuring firearm safety on set but I disagree with the idea that the actors are not themselves responsible for checking things for themselves. Mechanics are responsible for the maintenance of commercial aircraft but there's a reason the pilots are supposed to do a preflight. If they don't want that responsibility, they can stick to films that don't involve them handling firearms.

[O2HeN2]

Will Smith gun safety. At least he has a clue...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCzDQvX0hAY

[Duman]

There's no excuse for this. Period.

[kwando]

911 audio

https://apple.news/As3mGbHNUTWe_V69mZh2PLA

[Bailey Guns]

I have absolutely nothing good to say about Baldwin.


88038

[JohnnyDrama]

Gabby Petito/Brian Laundrie panned out. No more manhunt, the public's interest was gone a long time ago.

SQUIRREL!

[ChickNorris]

Its being reported that it was one of three firearms on a cart & it contained live rounds, then taken off the cart by assistant director & handed to Baldwin who then shot the cinematographer. Sounds like quite a few people were negligent or were at a minimum, complacent about firearm safety, staging & handling.

[Singlestack]

This didn't age well

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlecBaldwln____/status/911425278123048960

"I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone..." - Baldwin Sept 22, 2017

Congrats Baldwin, you won your stupid prize. So tell us, now that you won your stupid prize, how DOES it feel to wrongly kill someone??? We really want to know.

[HoneyBadger]

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

This situation sucks, but I certainly don't feel bad for an asshole who has made millions from glorifying gun violence all while trying to get guns banned for us peasants. Alec Baldwin? Fuck that guy.

[eddiememphis]

I read it was the first time for the girl in charge of the guns on set. Prop master or armorer or something like that. I can't find a link to the article.

[Doc45]

The armorer is the daughter of Thell Reed-well known long time competitive shooter and original member of the South Western Combat Pistol League as well as an advisor to Hollywood for many years on the use of firearms. Hannah Guitierrez-Reed, 24 yrs old. Allegedly she brought live ammo to the set to shoot during down time. Now she's being quoted as saying she almost didn't take the job, wasn't sure if she was ready.

The armorer is the one ultimately responsible on a movie set for the handling/use/storage of any/all firearms.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/entertainment-celebrity/the-24-year-old-head-armorer-of-alec-baldwin-s-movie-rust-told-a-podcast-she-almost-didn-t-take-the-job-because-she-wasn-t-sure-if-she-was-ready/ar-AAPRL8i

I have some familiarity with the film industry. As a kid I worked on few productions when I lived in Tucson. My brother spent 30 years as a member of IATSE, set/special effects, then later as business manager-he was the one that would negotiate the contract on tv and film productions.

How many times have any of us seen shows/films where a gun is pointed directly at the camera and fired? Typically the crew-director of photography/cinematographer, camera assistant (if there is one), director are behind a clear blast shield to protect them from the debris of the blank being fired. Not unusual at all. A truly sad, tragic event.

Michael Massee, the actor that killed Brandon Lee, lived with the deepest regret and suffered nightmares the rest of his life until passing from cancer in 2016.

[BPTactical]

Terrible incident.


Couldn’t happen to a better guy.

[BladesNBarrels]

Recently posted on Facebook

From a stunt performer on the set:
?For those of you industry and non industry friends following this story. I unfortunately have some first hand insight. 😞
My thoughts are regret that I didn't say something earlier when I worked for this production company -Thomasville Pictures- in Feburary as a Thomasville Local.
When I and multiple department heads including the prop master expressed shock for safety issues and poor planning concerning the very basics of set safety and common sense to multiple producers and were dismissed or just outright taken off the department head meeting schedule (no pay) or off the days shoot entirely.
1. This was totally avoidable. There are safety protocols in place, which is why this tragedy is so rare. Non industry but Thomasville friends... think Union Job.
2. I worked for this production company #ThomasvillePictures as a SAG Aftra stunt coordinator this year. I raised safety concerns during my employment. That was my job. I was not asked to be a part of their future projects.
I had to educate producers on blanks, Class C explosives licence for SPFX department head, and numerous other concerns from car hits to any other type of crap you could think of. They had no idea what they were doing. I wouldn't let them around a horse none the less a gun. They dont know how to make the movies they are making.
3. This was a real gun and real bullet on set. Unforgivable.
4. The gun was taken for target practice by the propmasters daughter before filming. Ridiculous.
5. The gun was not checked on set. Insane.
6. The producers hired non union crew to film that day when their crew walked out for safety concerns the day before. That's when filming should have stopped.
7. There is a difference between a prop master and an armorer for a reason. They know better. Because I told them in Feburary.
8. The producers are responsible and ultimately negligent for hiring non union workers and not checking their work. Manslaughter.
9. Alec Baldwin is a union actor and the senior producer on the film Rust. He is the boss.
10. Thomasville Pictures is an unsafe production company. They cut corners and didnt hire union professionals. Thomasville let's them do everything for free. They got someone killed and should never be allowed to make movies again.
11. The prop master of the film One Way walked off of set for safety concers.
Just like this movie. Foreshadowing
How many people need to walk off a movie set or say they feel unsafe before a producer will listen?
Send your thoughts and prayers to the families of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza not the producers of this film.
It's not an accident. Its negligence. They don?t know what they are doing. Everyone should claim responsibility for their incompetence instead of filming a western when they dont even know basic set or weapon safety.
The best outcome is that these producers aren't allowed to make anymore movies and send every $ they saved being cheap to the child of Halyna Hutchins.?

[FoxtArt]

Terrible incident.


Couldn?t happen to a better guy.

I'd say it primarily happened to a woman, myself.

But that is mostly picking hairs. Once a couple months pass by I doubt the personal tragedy affects him that much...
His resume/career are a bit tarnished by it which will ultimately bother him a lot more imho.

Her husband and childs life though? FTL. Except of course they will never have to work again if they feel so inclined, but $ doesn't replace a mom.

[Eric P]

Why was there live ammunition in the prop box? Seems to be asking for a negligent discharge...

[BPTactical]

I'd say it primarily happened to a woman, myself.

But that is mostly picking hairs. Once a couple months pass by I doubt the personal tragedy affects him that much...
His resume/career are a bit tarnished by it which will ultimately bother him a lot more imho.

Her husband and childs life though? FTL. Except of course they will never have to work again if they feel so inclined, but $ doesn't replace a mom.


I think you are perhaps missing the gist of my post.

It is a terrible tragedy for those innocent parties involved.

As far as AB goes- fuck him with a RUST covered cactus. He has made it extremely clear that if your were a supporter of the last president you should be loaded onto a cattle car and never seen again.
He is a vile and hateful waste of oxygen.

I hope this incident haunts him every waking moment and I hope he lives a long, long life.

[rondog]

I think you are perhaps missing the gist of my post.

It is a terrible tragedy for those innocent parties involved.

As far as AB goes- fuck him with a RUST covered cactus. He has made it extremely clear that if your were a supporter of the last president you should be loaded onto a cattle car and never seen again.
He is a vile and hateful waste of oxygen.

I hope this incident haunts him every waking moment and I hope he lives a long, long life.

Like

[FoxtArt]

I'm not picking on you BP, I get your original point.

My point, TLDR: Imagine if Obama shot someone you love, and all a ton of people talked about is how Obama deserved it. It just doesn't hit well, so to speak.

[Doc45]

Why was there live ammunition in the prop box? Seems to be asking for a negligent discharge...

Hannah Guitierrez-Reed, the 24 yr old armorer, claims she planned on doing some shooting during down time and brought the live ammo with her, check the article I linked earlier. Total tragic rookie mistake.

[Mtneer]

Hannah Guitierrez-Reed, the 24 yr old armorer, claims she planned on doing some shooting during down time and brought the live ammo with her, check the article I linked earlier. Total tragic rookie mistake.

Her dad is Thell Reed (Google him), so she's not a newbie. She grew up in the gun world and movie production. There's more to this story.

[JohnnyDrama]

Her dad is Thell Reed (Google him), so she's not a newbie. She grew up in the gun world and movie production. There's more to this story.

She's not a newbie. I reckon more than a few of us have taken guns with us to work with the intention of shooting afterwards. Maybe with coworkers. I agree, there is more to this story.

[eddiememphis]

There is a lot written about a prop gun and a blank gun being used.

There is also news that it was a real gun accidentally given to the actor.

I didn't think real ammo could be used in a prop or blank firing gun. But I know very little about it.

If an actual, loaded gun was given to the fool in front of the camera then it really isn't his fault, as much as I dislike him.

Actors are automatons. They stand where told, they read other people's words, the entire production is geared around making them look their best. They then are told how brilliant and talented they are while making tons of money. It is no wonder when they open their mouths in the real world they come across as complete idiots.

Another point I have read about is the complaints that a non-union crew was used when this occurred. I know almost nothing about movie production but blaming this on them seems self serving. People are people and can fuck up regardless of paying union dues.

[eddiememphis]

..

[Doc45]

I’m quite aware of who Thell Reed is, watched him shoot in the early days of the South West Combat Pistol League. Hannah is on record saying she may not have been ready for this production. Check the podcast referenced in the earlier linked post. I’m no fan of Baldwin, have been on film sets in my younger days- the ultimate responsibility lies with the armorer. I’ve got nothing more to add to this.

[Eric P]

Hannah Guitierrez-Reed, the 24 yr old armorer, claims she planned on doing some shooting during down time and brought the live ammo with her, check the article I linked earlier. Total tragic rookie mistake.

And why was it with the props? Leave the real ammo in your car, your purse ect... don't even bring it on set or in/near the prop toy box.

Complete moron. I bring a gun to work every day. I lock it in the desk when I need to do physical work, not set it where I'm working for any dingus to pickup and fire it.

[hollohas]

I've read a few stories that say the shooting happened off camera or at least not while filming. While Baldwin was goofing around. If that's the case, Baldwin unquestionably has fault. Guess we'll see in the days to come.

[ChadAmberg]

One bit of terminology to help clarify things.

PROP does not mean fake, or disabled, or anything like that. PROP means property, as in property of the studio. Now, fake guns, blank only guns, replicas can be "prop" guns, and "real" guns are too.

[Gman]

88069

[FoxtArt]

Last week, Baldwin's stunt double accidentally fired two rounds with a prop firearm after being told it was "cold," an industry term meaning a weapon is not loaded with ammunition, the Los Angeles Times said. At least one employee complained to a production manager about gun safety on set, the newspaper reported, citing unnamed crew members.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/director-gutted-death-cinematographer-accidental-165039035.html

That has to be the biggest What The Fuck I've read all year. And we live in a "pandemic".

[OtterbatHellcat]

I certainly hope his life is sustained misery....if not just for the killing of the Lady, but also a hopeful crashing down of his career. I don't think he'll ever produce another film, or be a dick on SNL again. It would be appropriate if his hollywood buddies shunned him as well, but I don't think they will.

His estimated worth is 60M.... I hope he goes broke with settlements and fines, walks out into a swamp and pulls a Laundrie.

[Bailey Guns]

I’m no fan of Baldwin, have been on film sets in my younger days- the ultimate responsibility lies with the armorer. I’ve got nothing more to add to this.

That goes against pretty much every rule of safety right there. If Baldwin doesn't have the sense to not point a gun at someone and then pull the trigger, HE'S ultimately responsible for doing so. That is sheer negligence no matter how you slice it. Not saying the armorer or someone else didn't violate safety protocol, but Baldwin is the person who killed that lady. No other. If he hadn't picked up that gun, pointed it someone and then pulled the trigger, that lady would still be alive.

[buffalobo]

Guns are only as safe as the person holding it.

If that person is not going to act in a responsible manner at all times then death and destruction will happen.

This group of "movie industry" people and specifically one actor(also boss of whole operation) and one "supervisor" did not behave in a responsible manner. Death and destruction happened.

[Zundfolge]

And here it is! Emergency. Gun. Meme. Review.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDHtHWyvbMM

[Squeeze]

From what I've gathered:

24 year-old armorer brought her personal firearm with live ammo to the set - loaded. She's nothing new to the gun world and 100% should've known better.
Union crew walked off set due to multiple concerns over safety. In Law Enforcement, we call that...A CLUE.
Baldwin, being the head cheese, basically said, "F them, hire non-union workers and let's keep rolling".
Baldwin points loaded firearm at camera, intentionally pulls trigger, kills Halyna Hutchins.
Question: Where was the "armorer"? Is she the one who handed it to Baldwin? If so, why did she not recognize it as her personal firearm?
Statement: Any time someone hands me a firearm or I pick one up, a magazine and chamber check is completed to determine if the firearm is loaded and regardless...it is ALWAYS treated as such. Apparently Baldwin missed that little ditty of safety.
I too believe there is a lot more to this story than what is being released. Baldwin is a flaming piece of excrement, however; the blame doesn't rely solely on him for the death. Should he bare the brunt of the financial responsibility in this situation? 100% absolutely. This isn't his first rodeo with filming movies and he should've known better. I am assuming he's the type of Hollywood dolt that acts as though he is above everyone else and no one is gonna tell him how to run his set.

One point, look at how many different prop guns are used in the John Wick series and not a single person killed on those sets. How many thousands of blanks are fired in those films?

[hollohas]

Affidavit came out. They weren't filming when it happened. Baldwin was "practicing his draw" when he killed that woman.

[O2HeN2]

"Baldwin was 'practicing his draw' when he killed that woman."

NRA:

ALWAYS Keep The Gun Pointed In A Safe Direction. [VIOLATED]
ALWAYS Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Ready To Shoot.
ALWAYS Keep The Gun Unloaded Until Ready To Use. [VIOLATED]


Cooper's rules:

All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are. [VIOLATED]
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. [VIOLATED]
Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
Identify your target, and what is behind it. [VIOLATED]

I'm giving him a bye on the trigger since everyone, including us, bends that rule when we do a dry press of the trigger. But unlike Baldwin, people educated in gun handling won't do a dry press while violating any of the other rules just in case we eff up.

O2

[Rucker61]

Question: Where was the "armorer"? Is she the one who handed it to Baldwin? If so, why did she not recognize it as her personal firearm?
Statement: Any time someone hands me a firearm or I pick one up, a magazine and chamber check is completed to determine if the firearm is loaded and regardless...it is ALWAYS treated as such. Apparently Baldwin missed that little ditty of safety.


From posts from industry people - the armorer wasn't there, and the First Assistant Director handed the gun to Baldwin, telling him it was cleared.

[Rucker61]

"All that it is necessary to establish for involuntary manslaughter by the use of a loaded firearm is that a defendant had in his hands a gun which at some time had been loaded and that he handled it, whether drunk, drinking or sober, without due caution and circumspection and that death resulted.”

State v. Gilliam, 288 P.2d 675 (NM Sup. Ct. 1955)

[Vic Tory]

Affidavit came out. They weren't filming when it happened. Baldwin was "practicing his draw" when he killed that woman.

I didn't think it was possible for me to think less of this "celebrity". Reading this ... I was wrong. [Mad]

[hollohas]

Yuphttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211026/a2090eeafa3e1653185d969797a70c06.jpg

[Aardvark]

If A.B. is charged w federal involuntary manslaughter, and found guilty, will that prevent him from doing further movies involving guns?

[Bailey Guns]

FJB and FAB...

88093

[Joe_K]

88094

[Irving]

FJB and FAB...

88093

Well, he is a law abiding citizen that had an unfortunate, or negligent accident that killed a person. Which is probably the argument that he would make. So it really just proves his point.

[Bailey Guns]

So, suddenly, Baldwin's gonna get all rational and make reasoned gun control arguments? I don't think so.

Baldwin is a piece of shit hypocrite that thinks it's OK for him to use guns to make movies that glorify violence and all sorts of other shit. Yet he doesn't think you or I should have the freedom to own guns. He made his fucking bed...now he can wallow in it.

[Great-Kazoo]

Well, he is a law abiding citizen that had an unfortunate, or negligent accident that killed a person. Which is probably the argument that he would make. So it really just proves his point.

Yet not an actual gun owner. If we're going to split hairs. In fact he was another idiot who thought it was ok to point a gun at someone, and pull the trigger.
KNOWING ZERO about guns in general, if at all.

Other than WE NEED TO BAN GUNS!



The hypocrisy of all this is. The same people calling for the DEATH PENALTY for Kyle Rittenhouse, who was defending himself.


Are the same ones sending "thoughts & prayers" to baldwin. Saying we're here for you, after such a terrible accident. Complete Denial of what happened, because baldwin is one of their guys.

[hollohas]

Baldwin is going to be even MORE anti gun now. He won't ever understand that gun training, not gun control, would have prevented this, and so many other, negligent injuries and deaths.

[eddiememphis]

I am guessing a Colt Single Action Army in .45

The giant hole looks great on camera. And the big, heavy slug could penetrate a skinny woman and hit the guy behind her.

[Eric P]

Baldwin has killed more people with a gun than 99%+ of people currently on earth.

Welcome to a rare club baldwin...

[ray1970]

While most people would be riddled with guilt and remorse for taking a life the way he did, he seems sort of soulless so assuming he avoids any legal complications from the incident he?ll probably keep living his usual life as a bad actor playing minor roles in less than spectacular films.

[clodhopper]

The fact that he hasnt been arrested yet is a disgrace. If any of us had been the shooter in this situation we would have been cuffed the day it happened. The whole blather about it being the prop guy's responsibility is like trying to blame your mechanic because you drove over a guy. The prop guy would need to answer to his own charges, but the trigger puller is definitely to blame.

[Bailey Guns]

No, you probably wouldn't have been arrested either. There were tons of witnesses that said this was an obvious accident...albeit negligent. The fact he had no criminal intent will play a huge part in whether he's charged with an offense. I think he should be but it's not up to me. It's very common in a situation like this for charges to be brought later or not at all without an arrest ever being made.

[Bailey Guns]

88109

[eddiememphis]

... is like trying to blame your mechanic because you drove over a guy.

Specious argument.

If the mechanic was negligent, you would still assume all fault because you're a stand-up guy?

When you have brakes put on your car, do you pull off the wheels to make sure they were installed correctly?

Baldwin is a low IQ meatball. He is openly anti-gun, so it is unlikely he has ever had the inclination to seek proper firearm training. There were people on set that were hired and paid to make sure this didn't happen.

It is very unlikely he knows how to check if a single action revolver is loaded and with what rounds.

Yes, ultimately Baldwin was at fault as he pulled the trigger.

[eddiememphis]

No, you probably wouldn't have been arrested either. There were tons of witnesses that said this was an obvious accident...albeit negligent. The fact he had no criminal intent will play a huge part in whether he's charged with an offense. I think he should be but it's not up to me. It's very common in a situation like this for charges to be brought later or not at all without an arrest ever being made.

There is sure to be a civil suit.

[Bailey Guns]

There is sure to be a civil suit.

Exactly. And that's where Baldwin might REALLY be in trouble. Even if he's charged and convicted it's likely he wouldn't even do jail time. The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.

[eddiememphis]

Exactly. And that's where Baldwin might REALLY be in trouble. Even if he's charged and convicted it's likely he wouldn't even do jail time. The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.

Don't be so sure.

OJ is doing just fine these days.

Balwin is likely to have insurance to cover him professionally as the producer and personally with liability umbrellas and the like.

[Bailey Guns]

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.

[Vic Tory]

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.
I surely hope so!


The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.
Hmm....

Ted Kennedy.
Hillary Clinton.
OJ Simpson.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm sure you could probably find a few who lost a substantial amount financially, too, if you looked.

Do you think OJ Simpson would rather have: A) Endured a wrongful death legal suit, or B) Not had to endure a wrongful death legal suit?

[Bailey Guns]

I got sued for $17M. I didn't even kill anyone. As a matter of fact, I didn't do anything wrong. And even though I won the case and was exonerated it was about 2 years of hell. And the 7 days of sitting in a federal courthouse were not pleasant, either. If you've never been there, you have no idea.

[Vic Tory]

Do you think OJ Simpson would rather have: A) Endured a wrongful death legal suit, or B) Not had to endure a wrongful death legal suit?
I don't know. I don't care. I do not waste my time or energy thinking about OJ a little bit. If eddiememphis hadn't mentioned him ^^^ I wouldn't have included him on my list.



I got sued for $17M. I didn't even kill anyone. As a matter of fact, I didn't do anything wrong. And even though I won the case and was exonerated it was about 2 years of hell. And the 7 days of sitting in a federal courthouse were not pleasant, either. If you've never been there, you have no idea.
I haven't been there. I have no idea.

[UncleDave]

I have, and it leaves scars even if you win.

[FoxtArt]

In the totality too, we had his stunt double that had a live fire accident just 5 days prior to this fatal one. We had crew members that had already walked off the set citing firearm safety concerns. It was an incredibly low budget movie (7 million) that refused to hire the team requested by a qualified prop master, so he rejected the job for safety concerns.

Maybe screen actors guild provides blanket insurance or something, but I wouldn't be surprised if they skimped on an insurance policy for the production itself. Like I said before, the fact they already had a live fire incident 5 days prior makes it one of the biggest WTF moments of the year and pretty much absolves any excuse any of them had to be so brazen, including Baldwin. He had serious reason to doubt the call "cold gun" before pointing it directly at people and pulling the trigger.

Yes, it'll end up being a civil nightmare that will torture her survivors as much as it will any of them. Thank goodness for our middle-ages fuckup of a court system we keep around.

[Aloha_Shooter]

John Landis was prosecuted (unsuccessfully) for the helicopter accident that killed Vic Morrow and 2 children while shooting for "The Twilight Zone" movie. It's all a matter of perspective but to my mind, Baldwin is far more personally culpable than Landis was. Landis was telling the helicopter pilot to go lower, resulting in an unsafe condition, but the helicopter pilot could have refused the direction on the basis of safety. Baldwin was given a firearm he was told was cold but it was his decision to practice his draw without checking it for himself and his decision to do so while there were people in front of him. Still a difficult prosecution but IMO he should be investigated and prosecuted simply based on the Landis precedent.

3:1 the authorities search long and hard to find a reason to NOT prosecute him.

[colorider]

Baldwin is a Hollywood blowhard and deep Democrat. There will be nothing done with him. The other people involved will likely be screwed. Several of them. So many things done wrong.

[brutal]

John Landis was prosecuted (unsuccessfully) for the helicopter accident that killed Vic Morrow and 2 children while shooting for "The Twilight Zone" movie. It's all a matter of perspective but to my mind, Baldwin is far more personally culpable than Landis was. Landis was telling the helicopter pilot to go lower, resulting in an unsafe condition, but the helicopter pilot could have refused the direction on the basis of safety. Baldwin was given a firearm he was told was cold but it was his decision to practice his draw without checking it for himself and his decision to do so while there were people in front of him. Still a difficult prosecution but IMO he should be investigated and prosecuted simply based on the Landis precedent.

3:1 the authorities search long and hard to find a reason to NOT prosecute him.


Randal Miller was convicted for the death of a film crew member.

"In 2015, he pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in connection with the death of camera assistant Sarah Jones during the filming of Midnight Rider, which he was directing and producing.[1] Miller served one year in jail and is currently completing nine years of probation.[2] Miller is the first film director in history to be convicted in the U.S. for the death of a cast or crew member.[3]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Miller

[JohnnyDrama]

Baldwin is a Hollywood blowhard and deep Democrat. There will be nothing done with him. The other people involved will likely be screwed. Several of them. So many things done wrong.

Like.

Baldwin will get off. I can imagine a large settlement with little coverage and the whole thing swept under the rug. Talking to the press verboten as a stipulation of the settlement. The screwing of others kept to a minimum as it will draw attention. Baldwin will blame the gun. Not himself for pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger. Not the armorer or other prop people. The gun made him do it. Baldwin is a bigger tool than any firearm. So much wrong.

[wctriumph]

I feel that Baldwin should be charged with negligence resulting in the death of one person and the injury of another person. He has been in enough movies where he handled firearms to know what safe practices are. He accepted a loaded firearm from a person and did not follow the most basic safety measures. There is plenty of blame to go around regarding negligence from a host of people but as the producer and star, he was most negligent. He didn’t follow safety protocol, he cocked the weapon, he pointed it at a living human being, he pulled the trigger.
Alex Baldwin was negligent and should face prison time for killing a woman.

What would happen to you or I if we were at the range, someone handed you a loaded firearm and told you it was not loaded and you pointed it at the person next to you and pulled the trigger killing that person? Do you think even for a moment that you could use the excuse that the person who handed you the gun said it wasn’t loaded so you are not at fault for the death of another person?

[earplug]

Curious if it was a black powder cartridge?

[eddiememphis]

He has been in enough movies where he handled firearms to know what safe practices are.

What are the safe practices for movie sets?

I don't know.

As I stated elsewhere in this thread, meatball is staunchly anti-gun. He is very unlikely to have had training with actual firearms.

Everyone on a range has live ammo, and acts accordingly. (Almost everyone).

Actors rarely have to think for themselves. They are told where to stand and walk, how to stand and walk. They are told what to say and how to say it. They have dozens of people around them to make them look their best and receive umwarrented amounts of praise when they do so correctly. It is little wonder that when they open their vapid mouths off-set, what comes out is often lunacy.

Your dog is well trained and sits on command, and after years of being praised when he does as he is instructed, you tell him to sit and he does so on a cactus, is it the dog's fault for not checking where his ass is to land?

Ultimately, yes. Some blame must also go to the idiot that told the pooch to sit as well.

[eddiememphis]

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-new-search-warrant-gun-safety-halyna-hutchins-death-1234863531/

The crew member responsible for overall safety on the set of Rust has admitted he didn’t properly check the gun that Alec Baldwin fired on October 21 and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to “open” the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four “dummy” casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the “cap” on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.” David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum.

[Vic Tory]

What would happen to you or I if we were at the range, someone handed you a loaded firearm and told you it was not loaded and you pointed it at the person next to you and pulled the trigger killing that person? Do you think even for a moment that you could use the excuse that the person who handed you the gun said it wasn?t loaded so you are not at fault for the death of another person?
Bingo!



Actors rarely have to think for themselves. They are told where to stand and walk, how to stand and walk. They are told what to say and how to say it. They have dozens of people around them to make them look their best and receive umwarrented amounts of praise when they do so correctly.
Hmm. I acted and directed in neighborhood theater for years. Even in those small productions, what you posted is inaccurate. Actors have many many opportunities to give input and suggest changes. (Even to me and I was a very demanding director.)


It is little wonder that when they open their vapid mouths off-set, what comes out is often lunacy.
For Hollywood actors this is 96% accurate. (Allowing for the few Hollywood actors with some smarts.)

[colorider]

So many Hollywood dipshits, celebrities and pro athletes skate from crimes because of who they are. Happens all the time.

[kidicarus13]

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to ?open? the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four ?dummy? casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the ?cap? on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, ?I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there?s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.? David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn?t, and couldn?t recall if she spun the drum.

Is it just me or does this description just seem like they are overcomplicating things. How about NO LIVE AMMO ON THE SET?

[Great-Kazoo]

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-new-search-warrant-gun-safety-halyna-hutchins-death-1234863531/

The crew member responsible for overall safety on the set of Rust has admitted he didn’t properly check the gun that Alec Baldwin fired on October 21 and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to “open” the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four “dummy” casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the “cap” on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.” David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum.

The TLDR version:


Baldwin pays off crew member to avoid manslaughter charge.

[Gman]

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.

Not taking that bet.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The TLDR version:


Baldwin pays off crew member to avoid manslaughter charge.

This. Halls is taking the dive for Baldwin.

[eddiememphis]

https://www.koat.com/article/gun-used-rust-movie-santa-fe-alec-baldwin-safety-halyna-hutchins-deadly-shooting-tragic-albuquerque/38085703

"That firearm was a F.lli Pietta long Colt 45 revolver," said Sheriff Adan Mendoza, at a news conference on Wednesday."

I was close. See post #76. I said a Colt SAA in .45 Colt.

[earplug]

Was it a black powder load? All I want to know.

[FoxtArt]

Was it a black powder load? All I want to know.

I really doubt it. There's been some reports of mixed ammunition cartridges and target practice in "down time", and it's only a 7 million dollar budget, they would've been using whatever was easy, fast, and available with a 24 year old armorer, it probably came from Wal-Mart. I'm sure it was set to be as historically accurate as Star Wars - IMO After Baldwin is paid it sounds like a McDonalds drive through salary remained to finish the movie. Lol.

[eddiememphis]

I agree with FoxArt. This piece of crap was unlikely to be historically accurate, and the green haired girl in charge of the guns doesn't strike me as the type load her own rounds so that the three people that actually waste their time watching it would go, "Gee, they are using blackpowder rounds, that's very authentic."

[earplug]

Brings a whole different meaning to Cast Bullet loads.

[HoneyBadger]

88155

[OtterbatHellcat]

LOL

[ben4372]

I heard on a legal podcast, he might be a producer of the movie. As an actor, might get off. As producer, lots of liability.

The Hillary angle is interesting for sure.

[hollohas]

Good advice!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/61298b702370be2b58c9685645f183c9.jpg

[wctriumph]

Soo

[eddiememphis]

The green haired girl says it was a set up. Someone slipped real bullets in with the blanks.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-armorers-attorneys-speculate-sabotage-deadly-alec-baldwin-shooting

"We know a couple of facts. We know there was a live round in a box of dummy rounds that shouldn’t have been there. At least one round. We have people who walked off set because they were disgruntled. We have a timeline of approximately 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. that day in which the firearms at that time were unattended," Bowles said. "So there was opportunity to tamper with this scene and yes, we’re looking at that possibility."

[O2HeN2]

The green haired girl says it was a set up.
Excuses nothing. Baldwin didn't check it, he's guilty of negligent homicide.

O2

[FoxtArt]

The green haired girl says it was a set up. Someone slipped real bullets in with the blanks.

Somehow, I am not trusting the opinion of the 24 year old girl who carries all the liability for it to not say "yeah, it was me".

I am also 100% calling bullshit on it being a set up. They had a live fire accident(s) on the set in the week prior. Is that a set up to?

And if she is the armorer, is she not checking weapons before they are handed off to people in any circumstance? Some armorer.

Sounds like a cliche stoner/gamer chick whose DAD is a real industry expert, and her qualifications are simply that her dad screwed someone 24 years and 10 months ago.

[JohnnyDrama]

Good advice!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/61298b702370be2b58c9685645f183c9.jpg

Nice!

[eddiememphis]

Somehow, I am not trusting the opinion of the 24 year old girl...

Sexist.

[battlemidget]

Somehow, I am not trusting the opinion of the 24 year old girl who carries all the liability for it to not say "yeah, it was me".

I am also 100% calling bullshit on it being a set up. They had a live fire accident(s) on the set in the week prior. Is that a set up to?

And if she is the armorer, is she not checking weapons before they are handed off to people in any circumstance? Some armorer.

Sounds like a cliche stoner/gamer chick whose DAD is a real industry expert, and her qualifications are simply that her dad screwed someone 24 years and 10 months ago.

Gunshow reload, I tell ya.

[kidicarus13]

Interesting twist...

Rust Script Supervisor sues Baldwin...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/17/rust-film-shooting-alec-baldwin-lawsuit-mamie-mitchell

[eddiememphis]

Meatball says he never pulled the trigger.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-says-did-not-pull-trigger-rust-shooting

[00tec]

Meatball says he never pulled the trigger.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-says-did-not-pull-trigger-rust-shooting

Because that's how guns work, right?

[.455_Hunter]

Meatball says he never pulled the trigger.

Inquiring minds want to know whether he cocked or partially cocked the hammer?

[Rucker61]

Inquiring minds want to know whether he cocked or partially cocked the hammer?

I wonder if the cameras were running...

[.455_Hunter]

I wonder if the cameras were running...

Maybe not the primary cameras, but I wonder if they use things like GoPros just to keep track of the production.

[Duman]

Meatball says he never pulled the trigger.

The immaculate discharge?

[eddiememphis]

Do the modern Colt clones have the transfer bar type safety?

If whatever he was handling didn't, and he was doing a quick draw, cock the hammer type action, and his thumb slipped letting the hammer hit the live round...

[theGinsue]

First off, not buying it.

Secondly, the firearm was in his hand when it discharged - however that occurred - which makes him legally responsible for anything that happens. This is how it would be handled if it happened to you or me and Baldwin is no different.

[.455_Hunter]

Do the modern Colt clones have the transfer bar type safety?

Some yes, some no.

[BPTactical]

The immaculate discharge?



[LOL][LOL]

[Ramsker]

Ah . . . the old "the gun just went off" ploy. Surely this will bear fruit.

[JohnnyDrama]

The immaculate discharge?

White House interns come to mind....

[TFOGGER]

Baldwin is a typical liberal ass clown, never taking responsibility for his actions, but taking credit for everything positive, even if he had nothing to do with it. I hope he gets sued into bankruptcy and beyond, because he will never be held responsible in a criminal court.

[colorider]

Baldwin should be doing more talking with lawyers instead of news reporters and talk show people.

[Gman]

First off, not buying it.

Secondly, the firearm was in his hand when it discharged - however that occurred - which makes him legally responsible for anything that happens. This is how it would be handled if it happened to you or me and Baldwin is no different.
Oh, but Baldwin is different. He's Hollywood.

[BPTactical]

I think AB did talk to his lawyers. They told him to do this interview and spew what he is going to spew.

Get out ahead of it.
Tell the lie enough and a percentage of people will believe it.
Alec good, gun bad.
Poison the jury pool.
Pass the buck.

Rinse
Repeat

[JohnnyDrama]

I think AB did talk to his lawyers. They told him to do this interview and spew what he is going to spew.

Get out ahead of it.
Tell the lie enough and a percentage of people will believe it.
Alec good, gun bad.
Poison the jury pool.
Pass the buck.

Rinse
Repeat

Good call.

I'm sure there are enough people out there who are willing to believe "Alec good, gun bad." that they will grasp at any alibi the MSM repeats. Now they feel validated.

[00tec]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-doesnt-feel-guilt-120334649.html

"If I felt that I was responsible, I might have killed myself"


What a piece of shit

[Great-Kazoo]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-doesnt-feel-guilt-120334649.html

"If I felt that I was responsible, I might have killed myself"


What a piece of shit

others agree

https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-schneider-rails-against-alec-041557767.html

[Eric P]

Gofundme for billboards saying "Alec is responsible" around his home.

Who's in?

[colorider]

Read some quotes from his interview and he states he did not pull the trigger but he dropped the hammer and the gun fired.

[FoxtArt]

Though not feeling any guilt

A plaintiff's attorney might be able to use bits and pieces. Why would a normal guy NOT feel guilt?

[eddiememphis]

Gofundme for billboards saying "Alec is responsible" around his home.

Who's in?

Innocent until proven guilty

[eddiememphis]

others agree

https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-schneider-rails-against-alec-041557767.html

Haha! Bo Duke chimes in.

[eddiememphis]

A plaintiff's attorney might be able to use bits and pieces. Why would a normal guy NOT feel guilt?

He is not normal.

He has spent most of his adult life being told how great he is. He has often been surrounded by people making sure he says the correct things, looking and sounding his best. When he doesn't, they swarm him and he has another shot at being perfect.

Since the "incident", he has had many people, including lawyers, instruct him on what to say and how to act.

It is not surprising he has no remorse or sense or responsibility.

[Eric P]

Innocent until proven guilty

Already admitted to holding loaded gun that fired and killed her. Admitted he dropped the hammer. So he is responsible for her death.

[Great-Kazoo]

He is not normal.

He has spent most of his adult life being told how great he is. He has often been surrounded by people making sure he says the correct things, looking and sounding his best. When he doesn't, they swarm him and he has another shot at being perfect.

Since the "incident", he has had many people, including lawyers, instruct him on what to say and how to act.

It is not surprising he has no remorse or sense or responsibility.

He was a twat, growing up on long island, so was 1 of his younger brothers.

[Duman]

Alec Baldwin is an actor, always playing a role. Which is essentially lying for a living.

How can you know when he's telling the truth?

[wctriumph]

Alex Baldwin is the poster boy for white supremacy and white privilege.

[Aloha_Shooter]

others agree

https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-schneider-rails-against-alec-041557767.html


https://youtu.be/SwYvvTu-UYM

[mtnhigh]

I think AB did talk to his lawyers. They told him to do this interview and spew what he is going to spew.

Get out ahead of it.
Tell the lie enough and a percentage of people will believe it.
Alec good, gun bad.
Poison the jury pool.
Pass the buck.

Rinse
Repeat

This!!

[Mtneer]

New update from our local attorney (he's in Castle Rock).


https://youtu.be/LTYf5BJv6t4

[FoxtArt]

https://www.westernjournal.com/baldwin-deletes-twitter-account-days-name-shows-epsteins-little-black-book-maxwell-trial/

Of interest... if it is true.

I am trying to figure out if the scribd document is the actual black book, or not, since I thought it was under seal. I can't find any recent confirmation just news references from late November to the exhibit number. Even though I am inclined to believe he would be the type to be in the book, that makes me incredible cautious in verifying facts / before blindly trusting things, as it wouldn't be THAT hard to fabricate something redacted so much (clicks pay $$$$ after all).

[eddiememphis]

I have learned a bit more about single action revolvers. I am obviously not an expert so correct me if I am wrong.

Looking at the various models built by that company, it appears that they have the firing pin on the hammer so I am guessing no transfer bar type safety.

The gun could have gone off as meatball said if the sear or the hammer had been modified, or if the trigger return spring was weak or broken.

I want to know from single action guys if the hammer has enough spring action just before half cock to fire the primer if it were to skip over the quarter cock notch?

That could explain the gun firing.

Obviously, having a live round and pointing it at the camera girl is stupid. I am trying to figure out if the gun could have gone off as he said.

[TheNash]

He would have still had to have cocked or was pulling back on the hammer. If it had been done by someone else just the jolt of it being put down would have set it off. This is just what I’ve been reading from others which makes sense.

[Gman]

Dip-shit might not have "pulled the trigger". He could have been holding the trigger back from the get-go before he let go of the hammer.

Unless there's a mechanical failure, it shouldn't have gone off without the trigger being to the rear, unless the hammer is left sitting on a live round and the hammer is struck from behind.


http://youtu.be/ldHPNnsp-cs

[BPTactical]

I have learned a bit more about single action revolvers. I am obviously not an expert so correct me if I am wrong.

Looking at the various models built by that company, it appears that they have the firing pin on the hammer so I am guessing no transfer bar type safety.

The gun could have gone off as meatball said if the sear or the hammer had been modified, or if the trigger return spring was weak or broken.

I want to know from single action guys if the hammer has enough spring action just before half cock to fire the primer if it were to skip over the quarter cock notch?

That could explain the gun firing.

Obviously, having a live round and pointing it at the camera girl is stupid. I am trying to figure out if the gun could have gone off as he said.


There is a test to be performed on any firearm with a hammer as part of a Function Check. It is called a "push off" test. Ensure the firearm is unloaded visually and manually. The hammer is cocked fully and with the firearm pointed in a safe direction you attempt to push the hammer forward with your thumb. A mechanically sound firearm will not allow the hammer to fall. Bad sear/hammer hook angles, damaged components, poorly modified components, excessive wear, inferior quality components etc will cause the hammer to fall.
A competent Armorer would assure correct function and loading.

Bottom line is somebody is holding and pointing that weapon. They are the final one ultimately responsible for for the safe handling of said firearm.

It's that simple

[eddiememphis]

A mechanically sound firearm will not allow the hammer to fall. Bad sear/hammer hook angles, damaged components, poorly modified components, excessive wear, inferior quality components etc will cause the hammer to fall.
A competent Armorer would assure correct function and loading.


I agree. The blue haired girl did not seem to be competent. I have also read that the gun has been used for 40 years in various movies.

In that time with all the (mis)handling, it is possible that someone could have modified it so it could drop the hammer without the trigger being pulled.

It is a movie gun so at some point the hammer notches may have filed down, the sear modified or removed or the trigger pinned back to make fanning it easier.

Dipshit said he pulled the hammer back a bit, then more, then more. Then the gun fired. Entirely possible with a modified gun if his thumb slipped off the hammer.

[.455_Hunter]

I agree. The blue haired girl did not seem to be competent. I have also read that the gun has been used for 40 years in various movies.

In that time with all the (mis)handling, it is possible that someone could have modified it so it could drop the hammer without the trigger being pulled.

It is a movie gun so at some point the hammer notches may have filed down, the sear modified or removed or the trigger pinned back to make fanning it easier.

Dipshit said he pulled the hammer back a bit, then more, then more. Then the gun fired. Entirely possible with a modified gun if his thumb slipped off the hammer.


I agree with the above, but it shouldn't have mattered if there wasn't a live .45 Colt round in firing position.

[Great-Kazoo]

I agree. The blue haired girl did not seem to be competent. I have also read that the gun has been used for 40 years in various movies.

In that time with all the (mis)handling, it is possible that someone could have modified it so it could drop the hammer without the trigger being pulled.

It is a movie gun so at some point the hammer notches may have filed down, the sear modified or removed or the trigger pinned back to make fanning it easier.

Dipshit said he pulled the hammer back a bit, then more, then more. Then the gun fired. Entirely possible with a modified gun if his thumb slipped off the hammer.

while he had his finger on the trigger

[colorider]

Makes ya wonder if they were filming while this happened? I can't remember reading if the camera was rolling, or they were just setting up a scene. If it's on film, that would make for some good evidence on what happened.

[eddiememphis]

while he had his finger on the trigger

Obviously, if his finger was on the trigger the gun could go off.

There are plenty of experts writing and making videos showing it is impossible for the gun to fire otherwise. Most of them are talking about new guns, not older ones with unknown history.

If we take him at his word, that he didn't touch the trigger, how could the gun have fired?

I am no Baldwin fan. He is a blowhard and a fool that knows nothing about actual firearms and their safe handling.

I am trying to figure out if his story is mechanically realistic.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Obviously, if his finger was on the trigger the gun could go off.

There are plenty of experts writing and making videos showing it is impossible for the gun to fire otherwise. Most of them are talking about new guns, not older ones with unknown history.

If we take him at his word, that he didn't touch the trigger, how could the gun have fired?

I am no Baldwin fan. He is a blowhard and a fool that knows nothing about actual firearms and their safe handling.

I am trying to figure out if his story is mechanically realistic.

Personally, I think he's digging his own grave. John Schneider did an excellent video talking about the protocols for handling a weapon on set and they involve checking it at every stage of handling.

Having said that, I remember reading Westerns decades ago that talked about modifying the gun to make it easier to fan so it's possible that this gun was modified. If so, that should have been noted and explained by the armorer. I have no basis to judge her competence in this regard other than the presence of live rounds on set and her general appearance (which really has nothing to do with her competence but is obviously pejorative in some circles). It should all come out in the wash as long as the investigation is independent and competent. I have no faith in it being so with AB being Hollyweird royalty but one can hope.

[Aloha_Shooter]

John Schneider back with another great observation:

https://youtu.be/0Sa5LIfNaKs

I hope the investigators are watching his channel.

[FoxtArt]

I do have enough information to believe the armorer is a piece of shit. When the initial details kept changing from e.g. an hour and a half to ten minutes etc. And then she has the audacity to blame an invisible conspiracy, yeah... Changing stories and deflecting blame. Classic signs of a piece of shit of any hair color. If she had a modicum of decency she would have expressed sincere condolences, cooperated with investigators and kept her mouth shut. Instead her only though is deflecting responsibility away from her however possible.

[eddiememphis]

John Schneider back with another great observation:


Unless it's a video of him shooting an arrow with dynamite taped to it, I question his expertise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ytBebmuq-c&ab_channel=BrianColtrane

[Great-Kazoo]

I do have enough information to believe the armorer is a piece of shit. When the initial details kept changing from e.g. an hour and a half to ten minutes etc. And then she has the audacity to blame an invisible conspiracy, yeah... Changing stories and deflecting blame. Classic signs of a piece of shit of any hair color. If she had a modicum of decency she would have expressed sincere condolences, cooperated with investigators and kept her mouth shut. Instead her only though is deflecting responsibility away from her however possible.

Unlike Baldwins handling of this incident, right?

[FoxtArt]

Both are probably cut from the same cloth. One is just marketed at a higher price.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Unless it's a video of him shooting an arrow with dynamite taped to it, I question his expertise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ytBebmuq-c&ab_channel=BrianColtrane

You question his expertise in what -- film production protocols with handling weapons? personally handling weapons? Did you even watch the segment? The observation in question was about the discrepancy between AB's self-described actions and reactions versus what one would expect from someone who was expecting a dry-fire click and got an actual boom.

Your assessment of his expertise is based on ... your own involvement in film and TV production? your personal knowledge of HIS knowledge in handling weapons?

[theGinsue]

I think his comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Schneider's Dukes of Hazzard character activites (as represented in the YouTube link he provided). But I could be wrong.

[battlemidget]

Friday nights as a kid was awesome, Incredible Hulk and Dukes of Hazzard, back to back from 8-10. Those shows paved the way for me to stay up later since during the week I was in bed by 8.
If I remember correctly, they used dynamite on the arrows because they weren't legally allowed to own firearms because they were Just a good ol' boys, Never meanin' no harm, Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law since the day they was born.

[BPTactical]

Never saw a better use of a Dodge Charger than Bo, Luke and Daisy did.

[eddiememphis]

I think his comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Schneider's Dukes of Hazzard character activites (as represented in the YouTube link he provided). But I could be wrong.

You're not. I am guessing Aloha didn't get the reference- he seemed pretty upset.

Battle- they were on 5 year probation for running 'shine. That's why they were forever trying to evade the clutches of Rosco P. Coletrane and his dipstick deputy Enos.

I too watched the show every Friday night.

[Mtneer]

Never saw a better use of a Dodge Charger than Bo, Luke and Daisy did.

Never saw a better use of jeans than Daisy Dukes!

[00tec]

They have a search warrant for Baldwin's phone now

[SideShow Bob]

Never saw a better use of a Dodge Charger than Bo, Luke and Daisy did.

You ever wonder why Daisy never slide across the hood of General Lee ?………

[SideShow Bob]

The same reason she never slid down a bannister setting side saddle wearing them short shorts?..


https://youtu.be/937zhQ27XK8

[BPTactical]

You ever wonder why Daisy never slide across the hood of General Lee ?………

Hood damage

[theGinsue]

Let's keep it clean folks.

[Vic Tory]

Headlines are being written that Baldwin "refused to voluntarily" give his phone to LEOs. What really happened was his attorney said the LEOs should get a warrant.


I cannot stand Baldwin. But I have no problem with his insistence on a warrant.


"Detective Alexandria Hancock said in an affidavit attached to the warrant for Baldwin's phone that officials asked the actor to voluntarily turn over the phone, but that his attorney told them to seek a warrant."


https://www.conservativereview.com/search-warrant-issued-for-alec-baldwin-s-phone-after-he-reportedly-refused-to-voluntarily-turn-it-over-to-police-2656056478.html?utm_source=cr-weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CR%20Weekly%202021-12-17&utm_term=ACTIVE%20-%20CR%20Weekly

[Aloha_Shooter]

I think his comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Schneider's Dukes of Hazzard character activites (as represented in the YouTube link he provided). But I could be wrong.


You're not. I am guessing Aloha didn't get the reference- he seemed pretty upset.

Battle- they were on 5 year probation for running 'shine. That's why they were forever trying to evade the clutches of Rosco P. Coletrane and his dipstick deputy Enos.

I too watched the show every Friday night.

Oh, I recognized what you were referring to and wasn't upset but the statement about "questioning his expertise" was just stupid. There were no qualifiers. It sounded like a typical blow-off because he's an actor and performer. It would be like questioning Jay Leno's expertise unless he's telling a joke -- clearly some actors know what they are talking about when it comes to firearms or cars or other subjects.

[eddiememphis]

Oh, I recognized what you were referring to and wasn't upset but the statement about "questioning his expertise" was just stupid. There were no qualifiers. It sounded like a typical blow-off because he's an actor and performer. It would be like questioning Jay Leno's expertise unless he's telling a joke -- clearly some actors know what they are talking about when it comes to firearms or cars or other subjects.

It was a joke. Lighten up, Francis.

[Great-Kazoo]

You ever wonder why Daisy never slide across the hood of General Lee ?………

she'd be stuck to it, like a plunger ?

[eddiememphis]

The Girl files suit against the weapon supplier.

It gets stranger from there, fingers pointing at everyone else, rumors of sabotage.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-01-12/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-lawsuit-western-alec-baldwin

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-seth-kenney-rust-ammunition-1235152905/

[BPTactical]

The Girl files suit against the weapon supplier.

It gets stranger from there, fingers pointing at everyone else, rumors of sabotage.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-01-12/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-lawsuit-western-alec-baldwin

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-seth-kenney-rust-ammunition-1235152905/

Everybody’s fault but hers.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The Girl files suit against the weapon supplier.

It gets stranger from there, fingers pointing at everyone else, rumors of sabotage.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-01-12/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-lawsuit-western-alec-baldwin

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-seth-kenney-rust-ammunition-1235152905/

As eddiememphis said, everyone's fault but hers. I mean, god forbid the armorer be able to check the ammo for an unfired primer. <sarcasm> It's not like you can see the primer when putting six rounds in the cylinder, is it? </sarcasm>

Weren't there reports of them doing target practice on set after filming was done for the day? If so, she already had a practice of keeping live rounds on set or nearby. I still assign 98% of the blame to Alec but the whole point of her job was to ensure the reliability AND SAFETY of the weapons.

[FoxtArt]

I hope they quickly get 12(b) attorney fees against her and shit all over her publicly. The only place she should be working is burger king, cleaning the bathrooms after close, and I do hope this stains her career permanently thanks to the internet.

Mistakes happen, that doesnt erase fault. Issue is, we should have zero tolerance for the lack of responsibility. If she would've owned up to the possibility of a mistake...

[Mtneer]

CNN — FBI testing of the gun used in the fatal shooting on the movie set of “Rust” found that the weapon handled by actor Alec Baldwin could not be fired without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked, according to a newly released forensics report.

The report found that the gun, a .45 Colt (.45 Long Colt) caliber F.lli Pietta single-action revolver, “could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger” with the hammer cocked at the ? and ? positions. It also found that when the weapon was fully-cocked it “could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger while the working internal components were intact and functional.”

FBI examiners observed an internal malfunction of the gun during testing at the fully-cocked position, with the report noting “portions of the trigger sear and cylinder stop fractured while the hammer was struck.”

The FBI report noted the limitations of the forensics testing, saying “it may not be possible to recreate or duplicate all of the circumstances which led to the discharge of a firearm without a pull of the trigger.”

[eddiememphis]

I read that last night.

It looks like he had his finger resting on the trigger. As he pulled the hammer back, he either let it go or it slipped with enough spring force to ignite the primer.

So, technically, he didn't pull the trigger.

He is, as many assumed, simply a dumbass with no idea how to safely handle a firearm.

[wctriumph]

The hammer will not go forward unless the trigger is pulled to the rear position. If I have my finger on the trigger and it is pulled back and I cock the hammer and my thumb slips the hammer will go forward and fire the gun. I have seen many people hold a revolver with finger on the trigger when cocking the hammer.

Baldwin screwed up and killed that woman and injured that man. He should go to prison just as you or I would if we did what he did.

[Sawin]

The hammer will not go forward unless the trigger is pulled to the rear position. If I have my finger on the trigger and it is pulled back and I cock the hammer and my thumb slips the hammer will go forward and fire the gun. I have seen many people hold a revolver with finger on the trigger when cocking the hammer.

Baldwin screwed up and killed that woman and injured that man. He should go to prison just as you or I would if we did what he did.

100%

[Aloha_Shooter]

The hammer will not go forward unless the trigger is pulled to the rear position. If I have my finger on the trigger and it is pulled back and I cock the hammer and my thumb slips the hammer will go forward and fire the gun. I have seen many people hold a revolver with finger on the trigger when cocking the hammer.

Baldwin screwed up and killed that woman and injured that man. He should go to prison just as you or I would if we did what he did.

This is exactly how Zane Grey explained his protagonist's fast draw in one of his many novels written over a century ago. The gunslinger kept the trigger depressed as he pulled the gun out of holster then he used the rotation of the pistol and his thumb to pull back on the hammer, releasing it as he got it on target. I think Baldwin likely read some of these same stories and knew exactly what he was doing except that he thought he had blanks because he didn't check the gun or ammunition when it was handed to him. Like a typical liberal, he's just trying to avoid the penalties for his bad decisions. Nevermind the fact he killed a woman and severely hurt another man.

[crashdown]

Baldwin is a dick.
…. but by this logic filming any movie like John Wick, Die Hard, Scarface, etc would be impossible.
Dont think any studio is gonna pay a headlining actor to empty each prop gun, inspect each round, and personally reload while they maintain proficient knowledge of how each firearm will be adapted to cycle blanks all while filming since this will obviously have to be done on set to ensure the actor is the last person to touch said firearm.

[bellavite1]

Baldwin is a dick.
…. but by this logic filming any movie like John Wick, Die Hard, Scarface, etc would be impossible.
Dont think any studio is gonna pay a headlining actor to empty each prop gun, inspect each round, and personally reload while they maintain proficient knowledge of how each firearm will be adapted to cycle blanks all while filming since this will obviously have to be done on set to ensure the actor is the last person to touch said firearm.

True enough, but, as you said, Baldwin IS A DICK, so fuck him!

[wctriumph]

Some producers invest heavily in training actors to properly use firearms for the scenes they will be using firearms. There are some great videos of Keanu Reeves and Halie Berry doing live fire training for the Wicke movies. Training with live ammunition.
Semiautomatic movie guns are specifically modified so that they cannot chamber and fire actual live ammunition. Like the guns the ammunition is specially made for film use. No reason that every other firearm used for tv and motion pictures can’t be modified in the same way.
No reason that any actor can’t be properly trained in proper firearms safety. Every time.

[00tec]

Rules for the, not for me

This buttplug will continue to speak out for gun control while using guns in every movie, just like that Taken dude. Baldwin will see no consequences from this from a criminal perspective.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Baldwin is a dick.
…. but by this logic filming any movie like John Wick, Die Hard, Scarface, etc would be impossible.
Dont think any studio is gonna pay a headlining actor to empty each prop gun, inspect each round, and personally reload while they maintain proficient knowledge of how each firearm will be adapted to cycle blanks all while filming since this will obviously have to be done on set to ensure the actor is the last person to touch said firearm.

Oh come on, don't be so meldramatic. It was a six-shooter. It take nothing to flip open the cylinder and see that either there are holes in the back of the brass if they're dummy rounds or that there are no bullets at the front of the cylinder if they're blanks. He probably spent more time walking from the prop desk to his mark on set. There is a reason they hire an armorer (and as a producer, he was at least partly responsible for the quality of the armorer they had on set) to check the ammunition and weapons but as someone who has been in many productions with firearms, it's unreasonable for him to act as if he was a newb who had never handled anything more than a water gun.

I am willing to bet John Wayne and Clint Eastwood knew the states of their weapons when they handled them and before they pointed them at anyone.

The relevance of the FBI report is that his bovine excrement about "it just fired on its own" doesn't fly.

[crashdown]

Oh come on, don't be so meldramatic. It was a six-shooter. It take nothing to flip open the cylinder and see that either there are holes in the back of the brass if they're dummy rounds or that there are no bullets at the front of the cylinder if they're blanks. He probably spent more time walking from the prop desk to his mark on set. There is a reason they hire an armorer (and as a producer, he was at least partly responsible for the quality of the armorer they had on set) to check the ammunition and weapons but as someone who has been in many productions with firearms, it's unreasonable for him to act as if he was a newb who had never handled anything more than a water gun.

I am willing to bet John Wayne and Clint Eastwood knew the states of their weapons when they handled them and before they pointed them at anyone.

The relevance of the FBI report is that his bovine excrement about "it just fired on its own" doesn't fly.


Baldwin is a dick.
... But you are implying different rules for different kinds of guns based on action type and capacity?
I am not speaking of all the peripheral garbage he has spewed, just that actors cant be expected to be experts or check what should be already checked.
How the hell would Heat of ever been filmed?
What if it was brake failure on a brand new vehicle on set? Actors should go through entire car to check all safety systems, seatbelt tensioner, fuel lines for leaks, etc?
And training an actor on how to use a firearm so they can look more authentic is a lot different than unloading each gun and inspecting every cartridge, 6 gun or 100 round drum, rules and expectations should be the same.

[rondog]

Oh come on, don't be so meldramatic. It was a six-shooter. It take nothing to flip open the cylinder and see that either there are holes in the back of the brass if they're dummy rounds or that there are no bullets at the front of the cylinder if they're blanks. He probably spent more time walking from the prop desk to his mark on set. There is a reason they hire an armorer (and as a producer, he was at least partly responsible for the quality of the armorer they had on set) to check the ammunition and weapons but as someone who has been in many productions with firearms, it's unreasonable for him to act as if he was a newb who had never handled anything more than a water gun.

I am willing to bet John Wayne and Clint Eastwood knew the states of their weapons when they handled them and before they pointed them at anyone.

The relevance of the FBI report is that his bovine excrement about "it just fired on its own" doesn't fly.

Um, cylinders on single-action 6-shooters that are 1873 SAA clones don't "flip open".....just sayin'

[JohnnyDrama]

This is exactly how Zane Grey explained his protagonist's fast draw in one of his many novels written over a century ago. The gunslinger kept the trigger depressed as he pulled the gun out of holster then he used the rotation of the pistol and his thumb to pull back on the hammer, releasing it as he got it on target. I think Baldwin likely read some of these same stories and knew exactly what he was doing except that he thought he had blanks because he didn't check the gun or ammunition when it was handed to him. Like a typical liberal, he's just trying to avoid the penalties for his bad decisions. Nevermind the fact he killed a woman and severely hurt another man.

+100 for mentioning Zane Grey.

[JohnnyDrama]

Um, cylinders on single-action 6-shooters that are 1873 SAA clones don't "flip open".....just sayin'

There is a scene in "A Fistful of Dollars" where the man with no name reloads his revolver. Through a loading gate. I don't know why it's stuck with me, but it has.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Baldwin is a dick.
... But you are implying different rules for different kinds of guns based on action type and capacity?
I am not speaking of all the peripheral garbage he has spewed, just that actors cant be expected to be experts or check what should be already checked.
How the hell would Heat of ever been filmed?
What if it was brake failure on a brand new vehicle on set? Actors should go through entire car to check all safety systems, seatbelt tensioner, fuel lines for leaks, etc?
And training an actor on how to use a firearm so they can look more authentic is a lot different than unloading each gun and inspecting every cartridge, 6 gun or 100 round drum, rules and expectations should be the same.

You're the one claiming it's a logistic nightmare and I'm pointing out that it doesn't take much time for the period piece he was shooting. Trying to draw an analogy between checking a six-shooter and checking every round and gun in "Die Hard" or "John Wick" is the kind of non-sequitur the liberals love to engage in.

As far as your analogy with driving a new vehicle goes, I would expect an actor on a "Fast and Furious" type movie to at least be acquainted with how to check and use the brakes before driving the vehicle himself. I would expect them to know how to check that he can steer the car. Checking the a pistol is NOTHING like checking all the intricate safety systems on a new car. I would expect an "experienced" driver -- actor or not -- to know not to take a Porsche Carrera GT through a curve faster than he could handle or on 9 year old tires.

[.455_Hunter]

I think the source of the loaded round is much more interesting than Baldwin's gun handling.

[crashdown]

You're the one claiming it's a logistic nightmare and I'm pointing out that it doesn't take much time for the period piece he was shooting. Trying to draw an analogy between checking a six-shooter and checking every round and gun in "Die Hard" or "John Wick" is the kind of non-sequitur the liberals love to engage in.

As far as your analogy with driving a new vehicle goes, I would expect an actor on a "Fast and Furious" type movie to at least be acquainted with how to check and use the brakes before driving the vehicle himself. I would expect them to know how to check that he can steer the car. Checking the a pistol is NOTHING like checking all the intricate safety systems on a new car. I would expect an "experienced" driver -- actor or not -- to know not to take a Porsche Carrera GT through a curve faster than he could handle or on 9 year old tires.


So period pieces should be checked by actors and modern guns in movies shouldnt be checked by actors? if I agree with that logic can the word liberal never be used in a reply to one of my posts again?
Baldwin is a dick. He should be held responsible as a producer or whatever capacity he was in charge of hiring, cutting corners, etc.
I dont think Baldwin brought the gun, ammo, blanks, or whatever to the set. I dont think he loaded the gun. I dont think he intended to hurt anyone on set. He is still a dick and shouldnt profit off movies using guns if he is so morally opposed to them.
Should every actor be the ultimate one directly responsible for whatever prop they are told to use wether it be a car, gun, fake hand grenade that ends up being real?.. not in my opinion.

[eddiememphis]

I think the source of the loaded round is much more interesting than Baldwin's gun handling.

Agreed.

You hand a monkey a loaded gun and it goes off, is it the monkey's fault? Ultimately, yes. But there is a long chain of incompetence leading to the gir'ls death.

Baldwin is a robot. He has been an actor so long he is used to people doing things for him. He is told where to stand, what to say, how to say it and, when handed a gun, how to hold it it and where to point it. If told to check the gun for live rounds, he would likely blink owlishly and say has has people to do that.

To compare handling a gun to driving a car is not accurate. Almost every American over 16 has or does drive a car. Around a quarter of the U.S. population owns guns. Expecting an actor to know how to operate a vehicle is a given. Expecting one to know how to check for live rounds in a single action revolver is a stretch. Not just for actors or the general population. YouTube is lousy with tactical bros that can tell you that you need at least four magazines and a red dot on your carry gun, but I doubt many of them would be able to correctly handle a Colt SAA replica.

[rondog]

There is a scene in "A Fistful of Dollars" where the man with no name reloads his revolver. Through a loading gate. I don't know why it's stuck with me, but it has.

Right. The Colt model 1873 Single Action Army and many others are like that. You pull the hammer to half-cock, usually the second click, and the cylinder will spin freely. Flip open the loading gate, and load or unload as needed, one round at a time.

Most double-action revolvers can unlatch the cylinder and the whole thing swings out, and you can dump all 6 empties at once. Then load singly or with a speedloader.

Then there's the tip-up kind that are hinged at the front of the frame with a latch by the hammer. Release the latch and they "break open", usually popping out the empties automatically, like a break-open shotgun.

[O2HeN2]

Release the latch and they "break open", usually popping out the empties automatically, like a break-open shotgun.
Being a revolver buff I have a break open. I point out that it has all the disadvantages of a revolver AND you can lose your brass. :)

O2

[eddiememphis]

Looks like the dumbass may be charged after all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/arts/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-charges.html

The Santa Fe County District Attorney?s Office has said that up to four people, including the actor Alec Baldwin, could be charged in the fatal shooting of a cinematographer on the set of the film ?Rust? last year if prosecutors decide criminal charges are warranted.
A document attached to the funding request said, ?One of the possible defendants is well-known movie actor Alec Baldwin.?

[Gman]

He pulled the trigger. If he gets away without charges, we are no longer a nation of laws, but a nation of the privileged and select enforcement.

[eddiememphis]

He pulled the trigger. If he gets away without charges, we are no longer a nation of laws, but a nation of the privileged and select enforcement.

Do you really think that those with money, prestige and/or power have ever been treated the same as those without at any time in this, or any nation's history?

[eddiememphis]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/05/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-settlement/index.html

Civil suit settled out of court. No info disclosed.

The girl's husband is now an executive producer on the movie and filming will resume.

I am guessing Baldwin ponied up some bucks and certain the insurance carried by the production company covered most of it.

[kidicarus13]

And now how willing will the victim's husband be to push for prosecution? [emoji383] talks (Kobe trial)

[crays]

And now how willing will the victim's husband be to push for prosecution? [emoji383] talks (Kobe trial)

And... Here's your answer from the article above:


?We have reached a settlement, subject to court approval, for our wrongful death case against the producers of Rust, including Alec Baldwin and Rust Movie Productions, LLC. As part of that settlement, our case will be dismissed. The filming of Rust, which I will now executive produce, will resume with all the original principal players on board in January 2023. I have no interest in engaging in recriminations or attribution of blame (to the producers or Mr. Baldwin). All of us believe Halyna?s death was a terrible accident. I am grateful that the producers and the entertainment community have come together to pay tribute to Halyna?s final work,? Hutchins said in a statement.

[.455_Hunter]

And... Here's your answer from the article above:


Amazing what hush money will do. Eyes now on the Santa Fe DA office. I bet there are some "interesting" off-the-record discussions occuring, especially with progressive power brokers.

[Scanker19]

To be fair, new Mexico let’s anyone out of jail that shoots someone so, really they are treating them like anyone else.

[earplug]

I was hoping for a OJ Simpson type car chase but using horses and cowboy outfits.

[Duman]

I was hoping for a OJ Simpson type car chase but using horses and cowboy outfits.

With a slow, white, bronco?

[eddiememphis]

With a slow, white, bronco?

Racist

[earplug]

That model Bronco has appreciated. Still slow.

[eddiememphis]

https://nypost.com/2022/11/02/alec-baldwin-loses-bid-to-toss-rust-lawsuit/

A loss for the gunman.

"Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Whitaker ruled that Mitchell can press on with her claims of assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligence against the actor."

[newracer]

Baldwin and armorer charged with involuntary manslaughter.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-charged-involuntary-manslaughter-fatal-rust-shooting-district-attorney

[00tec]

WOW

I can honestly say that is unexpected

[eddiememphis]

"He and the movie’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, each will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter.

One of the counts is for involuntary manslaughter, in which prosecutors will have to prove there is underlying negligence, prosecutors said. The charge is a fourth-degree felony and carries a sentence of up to 18 months in jail and a $5,000 fine.

The second charge is involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act, which requires proof that there was more than simple negligence involved in a death, prosecutors said. This charge includes a firearm enhancement, which adds a mandatory penalty of five years in jail."

[O2HeN2]

The armorer will be thrown under the bus to protect Baldwin.

O2

[battlemidget]

He could start a prison theater troupe, The Bad Actors.

[Waldo1]

He could start a prison theater troupe, The Bad Actors.

92697

[.455_Hunter]

He could start a prison theater troupe, The Bad Actors.


I did like him in Hunt for Red October and the NBC Alamo television movie, but that's it.

[Bowtie]

There is no mention of the second guy the shot hit.

[battlemidget]

Miami Blues (Fred Ward, and alot of other faces you'll recognize too) is worth a watch, AB plays a newly-released badguy doing badguy things with Fred Ward's badge. Tons of great lines.

[DDT951]

I dont like Alec nor his politics. I have a level of freudenschade for him in this situation with all his anti-gun history.

But using no emotion..
1) They were filming a cowboy movie where they shoot guns.
2) Alec probably had zero clue if the gun was loaded or not.
3) As he has no clue, and was on a movie set and an elitist... he went to assumption that he was using a movie prop.

Again, I do believe (unless there is something I dont know) that he believed he was using a movie prop.

There should have been zero live ammo on the set at the time of filming that. Zero.

I know we collectively have freudenschade from Alec because of his anti-gun activities and stances...

But think long term, do we really want the justice system criminalizing EVERYTHING? I believe for Alec (not saying anything about the armorer) it was really accidental and he had no clue the he was doing anything other than using a movie prop. Do we really want the government criminalizing true accidents or actions where the person truly doesn't know? What about whne they come for you for an accident or something you didn't know?

Just food for thought...

[newracer]

I dont like Alec nor his politics. I have a level of freudenschade for him in this situation with all his anti-gun history.

But using no emotion..
1) They were filming a cowboy movie where they shoot guns.
2) Alec probably had zero clue if the gun was loaded or not.
3) As he has no clue, and was on a movie set and an elitist... he went to assumption that he was using a movie prop.

Again, I do believe (unless there is something I dont know) that he believed he was using a movie prop.

There should have been zero live ammo on the set at the time of filming that. Zero.

I know we collectively have freudenschade from Alec because of his anti-gun activities and stances...

But think long term, do we really want the justice system criminalizing EVERYTHING? I believe for Alec (not saying anything about the armorer) it was really accidental and he had no clue the he was doing anything other than using a movie prop. Do we really want the government criminalizing true accidents or actions where the person truly doesn't know? What about whne they come for you for an accident or something you didn't know?

Just food for thought...

Other than acts of god there are no true accidents. Every accident can be prevented with proper training, education, and choices. Lack of knowledge is not an excuse.

[FoxtArt]

The armorer that tried to invent conspiracies and divert blame should be speared. The ammo and mistake absolutely sourced from her and has been established as sourcing from her.

Baldwin though... Agree with DDT951.

We live in a pragmatic world. Actors being handed props wouldn't know the difference between a real bullet or a dummy round even if they checked to see if it was loaded eighteen times. It's not their job. They expect to be handed what is essentially a prop. Their job is literally to point it at other people. Their job is to break the rules of firearm safety. They have expectations of industry controls. Even if we imagined actors anywhere (save for say, Keanu) actually had any habit of checked their prop weapons, who REALLY thinks they would ever spot a loaded weapon and what planet were you born on? That is why they have contractually required firearm experts (Armorers) and defined practices that are supposed to be closely followed.

Blaming the actor is dumb, as is ultra-strict theories of the flow of responsibility.

If you lend a friend your Dodge truck, and they drive through a restaurant with it while texting on an iPhone, is it your friend's fault?

Or is it Dodge's fault for making a 7000 pound battering ram, Apple's fault for making a distracting product, or is it your fault for not making sure your friend wouldn't text and drive?

Blaming Baldwin in this circumstance is akin to blaming Apple for manufacturing an iPhone, or blaming you for making sure your friend knows not to text-and-drive outside of your control and supervision. He was an actor, doing what they asked him to do, setup a camera shot at the direction of the crew where he is to point a gun at people.

Either we're consistent in how we apply judicial logic, or we're socialists under a different color.

[DDT951]

Other than acts of god there are no true accidents. Every accident can be prevented with proper training, education, and choices. Lack of knowledge is not an excuse.


OK. Lets explore that line.

I have seen more than one movie that has a chase scene that involves a crash. They are filming a movie. If something goes wrong, which it occasionally does, should the stunt people be charged with violating motor vehicle laws or manslaughter?

If you watch a real motor vehicle race, and a crash occurs, should a driver be charged? in the Dale Earnhardt death, should #36 have been charged with a crime since he ran into a car while he was obviously going well beyond a safe speed of 155-160mph? He knew that was a dangerous speed and could kill someone.

I will bet that Alec isn't convicted and very unlikely to take a plea.

[eddiememphis]

It depends on what the prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt to a jury of one's peers.

The Santa Fe District Attorney believes they have enough evidence to prove the charges. This has taken a long time so they must be pretty sure of a conviction.

As to stuntmen being charged for crashes, a quick web search shows there are several times where multiple people were charged in fatal accidents- both those directly involved and the producers for "allowing" the accidents to take place.

Not all were convicted but there is legal precedent.

[eddiememphis]

The district attorney said Baldwin’s involvement as a producer and as the actor who fired the gun weighed in the decision to file charges.

“This set was really being run pretty fast and loose, and he knew or he should have known that there had been misfires, that there were safety concerns, that multiple people had brought them up,” Carmack-Altwies told The Associated Press in an interview. The fact that Baldwin was “the actor that held the gun, that pointed the gun and that pulled the trigger” also contributed.


I also found this...

The district attorney said charges will be filed by the end of January, and that Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed will be issued a summons to appear in court. She said prosecutors will forgo a grand jury and rely on a judge to determine if there is probable cause to move toward trial.

So a judge could toss this out. Looking a New Mexico politics, this seems likely.

[TFOGGER]

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/326752217_963550757949394_4378886052771904921_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zgkQFHvozdoAX_8ULZu&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=00_AfBLti0a2IVvc2ef1R7-CyaNLWs1HV7G4FGkR_vBCvBPpg&oe=63D156E2

[Double00]

My son is an actor and actually auditioned for this movie. He said it is widely known that the armorer had no business being a armorer.

[WETWRKS]

As Alec is the executive producer...he is responsible for everything that happens. Doesn't matter if he was just a stupid actor. Doesn't matter if he knows nothing about guns. It is his job as executive producer to make sure the set is safe for the actors and crew. The buck stops with him.

[rondog]

IMO, there should never, EVER, be any live ammo on a movie set, period! That said, I've seen a LOT of TV shows where they're shooting live ammo, but they were shows where that's what was expected. Mail Call, Weaponology, others I can't name, Pawn Stars, etc. But not movies or drama-type TV shows where guns are being pointed at cameras and everywhere else.

And I still think it should be incumbent upon EVERY actor, of any kind, to know how to check a weapon that's handed to them, regardless of who hands it to them, armorer or not. That's just common sense.

[TFOGGER]

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/326522631_559990092694875_7269805893035223520_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gtufr5TO5fcAX-Pm7PO&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=00_AfBli72Xuu6BlVQAdm0CF1SeFzRFGUc_Nx6oTBCVZ2aQ 2w&oe=63D1C590

[Martinjmpr]

Just saw this today on MSN (don't judge me, my work computer defaults to it):


One year after the tragic "Rust" incident, in which the actor's prop gun fired a live round that injured director Joel Souza and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, Baldwin has now been charged with involuntary manslaughter, along with armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.

Good God, was that written by Baldwin's publicist? First of all "prop guns" don't chamber live rounds, that's what makes them prop guns.

Second, you gotta love how the "prop gun" apparently fired a round on its own. Baldwin just happened to be holding it when the gun apparently decided to fire sua sponte. [facepalm]

[DDT951]

Just saw this today on MSN (don't judge me, my work computer defaults to it):



Good God, was that written by Baldwin's publicist? First of all "prop guns" don't chamber live rounds, that's what makes them prop guns.

Second, you gotta love how the "prop gun" apparently fired a round on its own. Baldwin just happened to be holding it when the gun apparently decided to fire sua sponte. [facepalm]



I am not sure your definition of a "prop gun" is the actually accepted definition of a "prop"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/prop_1?q=prop

"​[usually plural] a small object used by actors during the performance of a play or in a film"

There is no requirement that a "prop" not be able to fire live rounds.

Example:? Myth Busters. They used actual guns, and fired them, as "props".

[newracer]

OK. Lets explore that line.

I have seen more than one movie that has a chase scene that involves a crash. They are filming a movie. If something goes wrong, which it occasionally does, should the stunt people be charged with violating motor vehicle laws or manslaughter?

If you watch a real motor vehicle race, and a crash occurs, should a driver be charged? in the Dale Earnhardt death, should #36 have been charged with a crime since he ran into a car while he was obviously going well beyond a safe speed of 155-160mph? He knew that was a dangerous speed and could kill someone.

I will bet that Alec isn't convicted and very unlikely to take a plea.

I am not taking the stance that every action should be charged with a crime. My stance is there is no true accidents, they can all be prevented and ignorance or lake of training is not an excuse.

[BlasterBob]

I still fail to understand why an actor actually has to aim directly at an individual. Why can’t that actor merely aim a short distance to the left or right of the individual being fired at. That would certainly work except when the camera is directly behind the shooter with a close up of the sights of the firearm being fired.
I asked a person in the movie film making industry about firearms being used on a set. Here is what was passed along to me,

Firearms should be carefully guarded and supervised at all times. This is the ideal. Some prop supervisors are properly trained in the use of firearms but, because of the quantity of weapons used in the Tremors films, we have always had a dedicated “armorer” on the set to help train us in the proper use of weapons and supervise their use.
Proper protocol dictates that weapons are never left unattended, always stored in a secure location, and that the presence of a weapon on a set is always announced to cast and crew. When a weapon is passed from one person to another, it should be examined by both the person passing the weapon, and the person receiving the weapon. Nothing should be taken for granted.

From what has been heard, failure to follow some of these guidelines resulted in the terrible incident a year or so ago on the set of the Alec Baldwin film. The moment we heard about the incident, we knew it was a case of incompetence, someone cutting corners. It never should have happened.

Aside from safety, keeping track of weapons has a practical component, as some weapons are “rented” by the production. The Gatling gun used in the last minutes of Tremors 4 is a perfect example. It was owned by a private individual and had to be returned to him in perfect condition at the end of filming, and was not to touched aside from its actual use in the film.

[funkymonkey1111]

I am no Alec Baldwin fan, but the charges against him are idiotic and complete nonsense.

It is ridiculous to think for one second that an actor in a movie should somehow be able to verify what is and is not a "live" round--the actor should be able to rely on the prop department to have their crap together. If not, shoot-em-up movies that we all enjoy end. Imagine John Wick where thousands of fake rounds are fired--is Keanu Reeves there before each take examining every cartridge? How about a war movie? How many rounds were fired in the first 10 minutes of Saving Private Ryan? was each actor charged with making sure every prop round was a blank? Of course not. The thought of it is completely absurd.

I get everyone is greasing up their privates because someone that is anti-gun leftist caused a gun death. However, this is not his fault, but instead the armorer's. Nor is it his fault that they hired the armorer or he was an exec producer that may or may not have been involved in hiring the armorer. The entire thing is nonsense.

[Martinjmpr]

I get everyone is greasing up their privates because someone that is anti-gun leftist caused a gun death. However, this is not his fault, but instead the armorer's. Nor is it his fault that they hired the armorer or he was an exec producer that may or may not have been involved in hiring the armorer. The entire thing is nonsense.

I understand where you're coming from but it really depends on what the investigation reveals. Apparently the Sheriff's office thinks there is enough evidence to hold Baldwin criminally responsible.

It's tempting to say that this is solely the armorer's fault, but without investigating, we don't know how much actual "authority" the armorer had. For example, let's say the armorer sees someone using a gun in an unsafe manner. Does the armorer have the authority to remove the firearm from that person? Does the safety manager? Does anyone?

We've all heard the phrase "with great power comes great responsibility" but the opposite is true, too: You can't give someone "responsibility" for something unless you also give them the POWER (authority) to ENFORCE that responsibility.

It's entirely possible that the "armorer" is a low-level prop technician who feels lucky to have a job and who may or may not know jack shit about guns. It also may be that the armorer knows a lot about guns but that every time she tries to enforce rules - like no live ammo around guns, no handling of guns unless needed for a specific scene, requiring actors or other crew members to "safe" each firearm before each scene - she is undermined by the director who refuses to enforce the safety rules and leaves her unable to actually do the job she was hired to do.

Now of course it's easy to say "well, if that's the case she should have just quit her job." Maybe, maybe not. Getting a gig in Hollywood is a pretty tough thing and it's easy to see why someone who is low on the totem pole might not want to rock the boat too much because not only do they not want to lose THIS job, they also don't want to get a "reputation" as a "troublemaker" on the set that could prevent them from getting future jobs.

IF that is the case - and I don't know if it is, but it makes some sense - then Baldwin IS responsible, not just as the actor who held the gun, but as the executive producer who bears a legal responsibility to make sure that safety rules are followed on his set. To put it in nautical terms, Baldwin is the captain of the ship, if the ship runs aground, he's legally responsible even if he wasn't at the helm or even on the bridge when it happened.

[eddiememphis]

The show must go on!

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-resume-filming-1235324972/

Rust will resume filming this spring with a mix of new and old crewmembers, including embattled star and producer Alec Baldwin...

The dead girl's family is suing Baldwin.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/halyna-hutchins-family-lawsuit-alec-baldwin-rust-1235321600/

Alec Baldwin is facing another lawsuit in connection with his role in the October 2021 fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of Rust, this time from her parents and sister, lawyers for the family said on Thursday.

It makes me wonder how much money Baldwin actually had before getting involved in this production. It seem a desperate act to finish this movie despite the tragedy.

Who will watch this "low budget western" knowing the background?

[Fromk]

Multiple news outlets report that the manslaughter charges against Alec have been dropped. As a gun owner I feel one way. As someone who has an understanding how film and theatre props work I feel another way.

Of course we all know the rules of firearm safety and it's easy to criticize from that perspective. It's just a different set of rules for props and that has to be recognized. I feel like this whole trial would have been a huge distraction in the way of who is actually to blame. Why were there live rounds on set? Who didn't do their job prepping the gun? Someone certainly has this woman's blood on their hands as well as the other guy who was injured. As hard as it is to say that ignorance shouldn't be an excuse and however you feel about him otherwise this wasn't exactly Alec's fault.