Confused reporting: another "school shooting", Texas, 14 victims

[Aardvark]

Nooz saying 1 or 14 dead, perp is dead or captured, shooting started off campus the perp ran in to the school. Very confusing, fluid news. Varying twits say perp was a coyote or drug dealer.

[Little Dutch]

The news doesn't report on teen suicides because it leads to copycat suicides from other teens, yet every mass shooting is top news for days.

Sounds like a terrible event down there. I hope the early reports of 14 is inflated.

[buffalobo]

Looks like 15 victims, 14 children, 1 teacher, local 18 year old perp also deceased, killed by police.

[Martinjmpr]

The news doesn't report on teen suicides because it leads to copycat suicides from other teens, yet every mass shooting is top news for days.

Sounds like a terrible event down there. I hope the early reports of 14 is inflated.

Unfortunately it does not appear that the count was inflated.

And I agree WRT the publicity these shootings get. IMO it does encourage copycats. Basically every loser out there with a chip on his shoulder can say "They never paid attention to me but now I'll MAKE them remember me!" by committing some horrific act. It's a way of saying "SCREW YOU!" to the world that they think did them wrong.

That's why I don't buy into the Alex Jones style conspiracy theories. Most of these shootings are exactly what they appear to be: Angry asshole with a chip on his shoulder and a gun. Wants to hurt people because that's the only power he has.

[Drucker]

Jesus wept

[00tec]

There's also a whole bunch of rumors that a BOLO was out for his truck because he murdered his grandmother. Possible pursuit. Looks like he crashed the truck in a ditch, then ran into the school

[Bailey Guns]

Initial reporting on this was even more confused than usual... I just quit reading the news stories until enough time passes for at least some good information to make it's way into the story.



Jesus wept

Yep...

[00tec]

Just found a video of him running into the school.
Was definitely carrying a rifle, probably the DD from his instagram

[.455_Hunter]

Just found a video of him running into the school.
Was definitely carrying a rifle, probably the DD from his instagram

The degenerate looks like Richard Ramirez. Of course, AR platform weapons and standard mags on full display.

[hollohas]

Why the F wasn't the school locked? Every school I've been to in the last 15 years keeps the outside doors locked during school hours.

[eddiememphis]

I am getting sick of these assholes.

What happened to the good old days when a criminal would give up when caught? Or at least shoot it out with the cops.

I bet there was meth involved.

[Gman]

Let the reports of this individual's prior known clues to abnormal behavior and run-ins with the legal system begin in 3....2.....

[DFBrews]

Death toll victims increase to 20.

Hug your family and call a friend tonight good night all

[BPTactical]

Multiple trillions of dollars spent to “defend” foreign countries since Columbine but they have spent virtually nothing to harden and defend our schools.

Think about that for a minute.

[Seamonkey]

From WSJ:

Ramos, a former student at Uvalde High School, shot his grandmother before going to Robb Elementary School, police said. He left his vehicle outside the elementary school in Uvalde and carried a handgun inside, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said.


Armando Ramos, an uncle of Salvador Ramos, said in an interview that he doesn’t think his nephew intended to target the school, but wound up there after a police chase. Salvador Ramos’s grandmother, whose name he declined to share, is currently in surgery, he said.

[colorider]

This one is going to have all kinds of interesting twists and turns from the original news reports. So far Fox says he was a resident of the town. CNN says he was a student of the school, yet, it was an elementary school and he was 18. First with facts, actual facts, is a thing of the past. Now it's just about getting the first story out there for the clicks.

[hollohas]

Sounds like a single LEO ran into the school and dropped this monster. That's how to respond. Backup not required.

[BPTactical]

This one is beginning to appear like shim was a full on freak show.
Are we going to keep pretending that all people are equal or is it going to take more dead kids to acknowledge that not everyone is capable of being a participating member of society?

[hollohas]

Are we going to keep pretending that all people are equal or is it going to take more dead kids to acknowledge that not everyone is capable of being a participating member of society?

The celebration of "uniqueness" (freaks) has absolutely created more monsters. Some people aren't humans, they're animals, and should be treated as such.

[Great-Kazoo]

This one is beginning to appear like shim was a full on freak show.
Are we going to keep pretending that all people are equal or is it going to take more dead kids to acknowledge that not everyone is capable of being a participating member of society?

His wearing dresses wasn't a clue posted on line?

[KAPA]

Recently went to the Douglas Co Courthouse for a permit. Had to run my 1.5" keychain Swiss Army knife back out to the car. No big deal but why can't every school in America have the type of security that the Doug Co Justice Center has?

Money you say? How many billions of dollars have we sent overseas to Ukraine and wherever? No reason adequate security can't come to schools nationwide.

Democrats keep yelling "do something" yet none of them have any actual ideas other than ban guns. Securing schools like we do at Courthouses, and NBA/NFL games is the something that needs to be done.

[flogger]

I just heard an interview about how Israel has had only 2 school shootings in over 44 years. They have heavily armed guards at every school, mostly to discourage terrorist hits by Hezbollah and other pricks, but it proves a point.

[DDT951]

I looked at the news this morning.

It seems there are no gas price issues, no inflation issues, no Russian issues.

Only thing I see is Biden calling for more gun control.

The Buffalo Supermarket shooting didn’t get rid of inflation/gas/Ukrain

[Gman]

...and this won't either.

And none of it is Brandon's fault. Just ask the teleprompter.

[William]

Common sense solutions are not the leftist's way. Doesn't fit the agenda.

[.455_Hunter]

A school screening checkpoint might catch Johnny with a Glock in his backpack and a plan to settle a score in the cafeteria, but doesn't do anything for something engaging in a focused attack. With respect to hardening and locked doors, Adam Lanza just shot the windows out until he could just walk into Sandy Hook. The only thing you can do is deter/delay for long enough to get an active response on scene- which would ideally be coming from the school itself (armed staff or SRO) followed immediately by local LE.

[TEAMRICO]

Has anyone ever seen my video of that POS doing what they say he did? Just video of him entering the building. Is it out there?
No being a conspiracy theorist but I’m curious.

Even the Columbine incident had surveillance video put out there.
Just wondering.

[kidicarus13]

Just found a video of him running into the school.
Was definitely carrying a rifle, probably the DD from his instagram

[TRnCO]

All these idiots screaming for more "common sense gun control laws" are getting under my skin. As if a bad guy cares about a few more of your laws. If the bad guy breaks one he'll break 100 laws to do his bad deed. Why is it that that is so hard for people to understand?

The places in this country with the most stringent of gun laws are some of the worst places for crime.

My heart goes out to all the parents, grand parents, brothers and sisters and family of all those young kids killed. It takes one sick minded Moe-Foe to do such a sick deed.

[Gman]

Gun free zones are free kill zones. Period.

Laws are only effective for the law abiding. End of story.

[Gman]

I used to think that bringing back state mental institutions would help, but the "progressives" have normalized mental illness into lifestyle choices.

[hollohas]

I used to think that bringing back state mental institutions would help, but the "progressives" have normalized mental illness into lifestyle choices.Exactly.

[hollohas]

Is this monster another kid that grew up without a Dad?

[WETWRKS]

Recently went to the Douglas Co Courthouse for a permit. Had to run my 1.5" keychain Swiss Army knife back out to the car. No big deal but why can't every school in America have the type of security that the Doug Co Justice Center has?

Money you say? How many billions of dollars have we sent overseas to Ukraine and wherever? No reason adequate security can't come to schools nationwide.

Democrats keep yelling "do something" yet none of them have any actual ideas other than ban guns. Securing schools like we do at Courthouses, and NBA/NFL games is the something that needs to be done.

How about spending some of the millions in pot taxes that were voted to go to schools on it? The millions that the Dems are spending on whatever they want.

[colorider]

Is this monster another kid that grew up without a Dad?

I do believe he lived with his grandparents. An interesting upbringing story will probably hit the news soon.

[Gman]

Just recently moved from his mother's house (that mom rents from grandma) to his grandmother's. Grandmother is in the process of evicting the daughter due to substance abuse issues.

[KAPA]

Reports now saying it took 40 to 60 minutes for school shooter to be killed after entering the school. Meanwhile local cops were outside doing crowd control on angry parents wanting to go into school. How after Columbine did these cops not rush in?

This all while the democrats are trying to convince Americans they should give up their personal means of protection and let the government protect them.

Hard.

Freaking.

Sell!

[hollohas]

A killer easily waltzed right into the school but they wouldn't let parents go in to try to stop him?

WTF.

[leightoncash]

I thought that police forces nationwide had adopted the policy of going in immediately. Or at least that it was widely accepted as the only right tactic. I know "policy" means nothing when a person is facing what they believe is probably certain death, and no one knows how they would perform in that situation. But you'd think that a group of officers would pool their courage. We don't really know what happened just yet though. I'll be shooting a match with a SWAT guy next weekend and I look forward to hearing what his thoughts are.
This whole story is heartbreaking. It's easy to approach it from a detached perspective, thinking about policy, law, tactics or root causes. But take the time to look at the pictures of the little boys and girls that were were murdered one by one in that classroom, and think of their fear and their parents' pain. There's a lot of people out there that don't own guns, have no interest in guns, and have led their lives feeling safe without them and thus see no real importance for the 2A. Of course they will see banning assault weapons as a reasonable measure, especially in the midst of such a tragedy. Times like these require a lot of diplomacy from "gun people", and it's super important to show that we aren't callous and unfeeling, with a focus only on our own interests. That old saying "no one cares how much you know until the know how much you care"...

[BushMasterBoy]

Probably a true story. According to witnesses who were there, it was a special response team from a federal agency that ended the situation.

[KAPA]

Yep, true. There is video all over twitter showing cops standing around preventing parents from crossing line to school while they begged LEOs with long guns to go in. This was during the hour where the killer was in the classroom with the kids.

At one point the cops literally tackle a person trying to get by their line of cowards.

[eddiememphis]

Does a town of 16k have the resources to train and equip a SWAT team?

When faced with an unknown adversary, does it make sense for local yokels to go rushing in? They likely didn't know is it was one guy or a dozen, how he or they were armed. What if it was a dozen terrorists that had the place rigged with explosives?

Maybe they were told to hold the perimeter until the border patrol special response team showed up.

Not every cop is John McClane.

[TRnCO]

I heard a report saying that a school resource officer engaged the shooter early on and was shot and that this engagement actually got the shooter to drop or leave a bag of ammo behind before he entered the school. If that's true then that resource officer knew how many shooters there were and that resource officer very well may have kept the shooter from killing more than he did in the end, for the simple fact that he left ammo behind outside of the school.

[hollohas]

The videos show lots of well armed cops outside busy holding off parents while they yell "why aren't you doing anything!?!?! Get inside the school!". Literally pinning parents to the ground and unholstering tasers to control the crowd. Timing is not clear, but if the parents are telling them to get inside the school, it seems likely this was happening before the incident was over.

IDGAF if you're officer John McClain or not, if there are kids actively getting killed inside a school, you go in. Period. These guys had vests and rifles, go kill that monster. If they're not competent enough to go kill a bad guy and instead have to wait for the "pros" then they shouldn't have a badge. Give the guys rifles but don't let them use them to kill a bad guy? That's bullshit. My guess is some incident commander or some HDIC told them to wait. If the HDIC can't trust his guys to go kill a bad guy, he needs new guys. If he's too much of a puss to order his guys in, he needs a new job. There's no way that many officers all decided to wait on their own. I know lots of officers, I was raised by one. Most wouldn't wait.

[hollohas]

Does a town of 16k have the resources to train and equip a SWAT team?

When faced with an unknown adversary, does it make sense for local yokels to go rushing in? They likely didn't know is it was one guy or a dozen, how he or they were armed. What if it was a dozen terrorists that had the place rigged with explosives?

Maybe they were told to hold the perimeter until the border patrol special response team showed up.

Not every cop is John McClane.

He wasn't an unknown adversary. His grandma that he shot called 911. An SRO encountered him outside. He was being chased as he went in. Some reports say he exchange fire with police but that's not confirmed as far as I can tell.

[colorider]

The day of the incident the news reported that it was a border patrol agent that terminated the suspect.

[.455_Hunter]

LE knew exactly what they were dealing with in this situation- they pursued the degenerate to the school and had an initial shootout with him. The failure to CONTINUE pressing the engagement is inexcusable- you don't wait outside while a gunman is inside with more potential victims and already wounded victims lay dying. The time the degenerate spends "dealing" with body-armored and rifle-armed LE is time he isn't able to kill more innocents.

[Great-Kazoo]

He wasn't an unknown adversary. His grandma that he shot called 911. An SRO encountered him outside. He was being chased as he went in. Some reports say he exchange fire with police but that's not confirmed as far as I can tell.

A question i have is. WHY weren't schools in the area, put on lockdown.

[leightoncash]

Unbelievable that well armed police would be ordered to hold back and wait, or that they wouldn't feel obligated to go in themselves regardless of their orders. I know one thing, I'd rather have gone in and died, than live with myself knowing I held back and fought with parents instead.

[hollohas]

A question i have is. WHY weren't schools in the area, put on lockdown.Sounds like they did within 15mins or so from when the grandma called 911. But he wasn't far from the school.

[Hoser]

Lots of details are still up in the air.

No need to armchair quarterback this.

[hollohas]

I've read reports that once responding officers entered the school, they couldn't access the classroom because it was locked. Schools should have crisis response boxes that contain keys that are given to responding officers immediately. These sorts of plans are out there and easy to get. Schools should be actively putting these processes in place in conjunction with local LE. And local LE needs to be training officers regarding how they should respond differently to schools. One example of these sorts of plans is below. (I've used similar when working with local LE on emergency response plans for my church).

https://info.publicintelligence.net/LAactiveshootertactics.pdf

Parents need to start demanding schools protect their children. Time to pack school board meetings until schools take security seriously. Schools should have to report to parents on a regular basis confirming that they have provided crisis response training to all staff along with local LE. There should be a requirement for annual review of crisis response procedures, required training hours and local LE signoff proving the plan is reviewed with LE as well. It's time for some accountability.

My kids' school takes security seriously. One of my daughters told me about a lockdown drill a while back. They had to lockdown in the locker room during this particular drill. The teacher instructed them to stay still and quiet. My daughter asked the teacher, "what if a bad guy is hiding in a locker and comes out and starts hurting us when we're locked in the room?" (particularly valid question apparently because this killer locked himself in the room with the kids).

The teacher responded to my then 7 year old daughter..."Then we all fight. EVERYONE must fight". I loved that answer.

This monster locked himself in with what sounds like 20+ 10 years olds. We currently teach kids to just curl up and hope they don't attract attention from the bad guy. 20+ 10 year olds could absolutely overwhelm a pussy skinny ass 18 year old, better that then sit there and get executed. Kids should learn to defend themselves just as much as adults should, in the event adults fail to protect them as they should.

[eddiememphis]

The current anti-police political environment may have an influence on the reluctance to engage immediately.

[WETWRKS]

40 minutes to an hour in the school...he could have killed that many and possibly more with a butcher knife.

[hollohas]

Texas DPS has confirmed that initial responding officers entered the building within 4 minutes but fell back after taking fire.


They hear gunfire, they take rounds, get back and take cover...?they don't make entry initially because of the gunfire they are receiving. They are calling for additional resources, tactical teams, we needed body armor, precision rifles, negotiators

They retreated. While kids got murdered.

[Ah Pook]

Lots of details are still up in the air.

No need to armchair quarterback this.

I have heard so many different versions of this situation. I'd like to find a reliable source but it will take a while to separate the wheat from the chaff (ie: Fact from BS).

[Gman]

I hear it was 14 minutes before first engagement and then falling back. Was about an hour before the tactical team showed up.

This has been the best accounting I've heard so far;

http://youtu.be/_msCR4VVtJs

LE were threatening parents with tasers to keep them from trying to save their own kids.

I've heard reports of LE going in to the school to save only their own kids.

We've apparently learned nothing since Columbine.

[Little Dutch]

I notice the media is doing a fine job keeping us all distracted with anger towards the police or anger towards guns. No one is talking about being pissed about a tyranny, who incidentally appears to have grown up in a fatherless home, presumably with all the typical warning signs, not being properly dealt with before he went on a rampage. Nope, not a mental health early intervention failure there at all...

[Rooskibar03]

Sorry but if the reports are true these officers stood by and did nothing they all need to be fired and charged. Cowards. Its the freaking job, you run towards the danger.

I dont advocate violence against LEO but you'd have a hard time keeping me from that school if my kids inside.

[hollohas]

The Texas DPS gave a press conference today. The cowboy hat wearing spokesman literally said the quote I posted above. (After he spent an awkward amount of time thanking all the LE around him...read the room guy) I watched it.

The first responding officers fell back after taking fire. That's the official story. Just like that coward SRO who hid behind cover for 45mins at Parkland.

Hope they weren't wearing "sheepdogs run towards the sound of gunfire" nine Line t-shirts under their uniforms...

The initial responders failed those kids.

The school failed those kids by not keeping their damn doors locked or providing security.

And before anyone accuses me of jumping to conclusions and hating on cops, read what I posted before we knew this fact. I jumped to conclusions by praising the officers initially.

The official story is the 1st responding officers retreated. I hope every one of them that retreated while kids got murdered quits tomorrow.

[hollohas]

Holy crap.

The Texas DPS guy on Wolf Blitzer last night...


At that point, if they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they could’ve been shot, they could've been killed, and at that point that gunman would have had an opportunity to kill other people inside that school.

'So they were able to contain that gunman inside that classroom so that he was not able to go to any other portions of the school to commit any other killings,' Lt. Olivarez said.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860747/Texas-cop-says-Uvalde-officers-retreated-gunman-shot.html#v-7507829805276444474


First he claims they didn't know where he was so they didn't try to find and stop him. Then he claims they "contained" killer in a classroom...with kids.

-How could they contain him if they didn't know where he was at?
-They didn't proceed because they were worried they'd get shot?
-This guy thinks it was a GOOD decision to "contain" a murderer in a classroom filled with kids? Is this guy insane?!?!

W.T.F.

[colorider]

I'm thinking there are going to be a lot of people retiring after this. Either by choice, or by force. From what is being reported, there were many failures at many levels. Mainly being, sit outside and listen as the gunman is locked in a room shooting kids like ducks on a pond. Fucking absurd.

[.455_Hunter]

Acceptable "containment"- degenerate barricaded inside janitorial closet.

Unacceptable "containment"- degenerate barricaded inside classroom with dozens of kids.

In many situations, it appears the collective stupidity increases with the more responding LE that are present. Successful resolution usually occurs when the first handful of officers/deputies/agents on-scene do what needs to happen and end the event before "management" can arrive.

[.455_Hunter]

Now this gem...


Texas school gunman Salvador Ramos was arrested four years ago after saying he planned to ‘shoot up a school’ when he turned 18 in 2022, according to a US lawmaker...



I guess this is now incorrect. The degenerate was not part of the earlier plot.

[BushMasterBoy]

It is obvious that the locals had NO CONTINGENCY PLAN for this incident. There are 98,755 public schools in the US and their local authorities need a plan for an "active shooter" emergency.

[hollohas]

Texas DPS is admitting failure now. They finally pulled the dumbass PROs off the stage and the DPS Director gave a press conference today. He said the scene commander made the call to wait because he believed it wasn't an active shooter anymore. Which is BS, kids called 911 begging for help. And EVERYBODY should have assumed there were casualties that needed to be rescued.

The Director admitted it was the wrong decision and said there was no excuse.

[Bailey Guns]

I just watched McCraw speaking. He said the on scene commander did believe it had transitioned from an active shooter scene to a barricaded gunman scene. That's why they pulled back and waited for SWAT. He also said 911 calls were received that described the guy still shooting children. Then he said that information never made it to the people on scene.

I have mixed feelings about this. I understand not storming a room right away if you think it's just a barricaded person. I get that. I understand, IF that's the case, why the on scene commander might make the call he did. I don't understand how dispatch didn't relay the information that children were being shot to officers on the scene. I know things are confusing and for a small agency taking that level of calls and trying to disseminate that much information, much of it conflicting, is VERY difficult.

I'm trying to think of a scenario where that info wouldn't be sent to the guys on the ground and can't. Even if dispatch is overwhelmed, if you get no other information out, you get that out.

It's a lot to process. I am kind of amazed that McCraw admitted they failed and made that very deadly mistake. I know the DPS lawyers must be having strokes hearing him say that. The ambulance chasers are having orgasms.

These kinds of things are exactly why I try not to rush to judgment. Things aren't always the way they seems.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. As a matter of fact, I'm leaning towards being extremely critical of the way this was handled by officers and command on scene. But, it's still early. The only thing I know for certain is the system failed a whole bunch of innocent kids.

[drew890]

There is absolutely no way that officers on scene could not hear active gunshots continuing to come from the classroom and the cry’s of dying children.

[hollohas]

It's a lot to process. I am kind of amazed that McCraw admitted they failed and made that very deadly mistake. I know the DPS lawyers must be having strokes hearing him say that. The ambulance chasers are having orgasms

.

I don't think DPS was in control at the scene. It sounds like local PD was. (I can't tell if it was actual PD or some special school district department. I've heard the scene commander be referred to as Chief Arrenodo of the Uvalde School District Police Department. That's doesn't sound like an actual thing, but maybe I'm wrong. Weird for a small town school district to have its very own PD?)

I think DPS is as mad as many others at this point and DPS Director McCraw just threw Chief Arrenodo under the bus with a vengeance.

PS - that said, DPS had to have had Troopers onsite. As I'm sure the SO had deputies there. Another dept should have taken control of the scene the moment the PD said hold.

[Bailey Guns]

Just once...just one fucking time... I'd like to see people try to maintain some sort of objectivity until we actually know what happened without speculating about what happened.

I guess that's too much to ask.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't think DPS was in control at the scene. It sounds like local PD was. (I can't tell if it was actual PD or some special school district department. I've heard the scene commander be referred to as Chief Arrenodo of the Uvalde School District Police Department. That's doesn't sound like an actual thing, but maybe I'm wrong. Weird for a small town school district to have its very own PD?)

I think DPS is as mad as many others at this point and DPS Director McCraw just threw Chief Arrenodo under the bus with a vengeance.

PS - that said, DPS had to have had Troopers onsite. As I'm sure the SO had deputies there. Another dept should have taken control of the scene the moment the PD said hold.

I'm not really sure, at this point, who was in control. I haven't heard anyone say for sure. You may be right about the chief getting thrown under the bus.

[Bailey Guns]

From FoxNews/New York Times:



The tactical team that killed Uvalde school shooter Salvador Ramos reportedly arrived at the school earlier than was previously known and was delayed in entering the building Ramos was barricaded inside.

Two officials briefed on the situation told the New York Times that specialized Border Patrol agents arrived at Robb Elementary School between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. which is roughly 30 minutes earlier than previously thought.

Additionally, the officials say that the Uvalde Police Department held the Border Patrol agents back from going inside.


Now that (keeping the CBP SWAT guys from going inside) I don't understand. At all.

[eddiememphis]

There is absolutely no way that officers on scene could not hear active gunshots continuing to come from the classroom and the cry?s of dying children.

Unless he killed them all right away and then barricaded himself in.

As Bailey says, we should wait until all the info is available, not bits and pieces from varying, often conflicting sources.

[hollohas]

Bad guy entered school at 11:33.

Initial officers responded by 11:35 and immediately took fire.

Border Patrol arrived somewhere around 12:00.

Lots of 911 calls from kids inside between 12:00 and 12:50.

There's 911 call at 12:16 from someone inside confirming there are still people alive.

There is A LOT of time in there wasted.

If the super elite BORTAC guys got there at noon, 911 knew people were still alive and BORTAC didn't kill him until 12:50...that's a major failure.

(forget the fact responding officers shouldn't have waited for them...that's not exactly Border Patrol's job. The SO or DPS doesn't have tac teams?? )

I really hope BORTAC wasn't actually waiting for keys like reports say. If the elite tactical unit needs keys to get in a room, they're not very tactical are they.

We need to save the kids!!!! Oh, we don't have keys? Someone call the janitor, we'll wait.

That can't be true...

[drew890]

Unless he killed them all right away and then barricaded himself in.

As Bailey says, we should wait until all the info is available, not bits and pieces from varying, often conflicting sources.

There are plenty of facts that Bailey has failed to look at. It is a proven fact that police refused to make entry while the children were still alive and making 911 calls with cell phones. It’s a fact that officers were maintaining a perimeter while shots were fired inside the classroom. These shots were not out going from the classroom towards officers. This has been documented in multiple videos and feeds.
I am a former Indy Metro officer and have enough experience to have an opinion when LE fails.
The facts are clear and available, I don’t need to wait weeks to formulate an accurate opinion

[TEAMRICO]

Those schools should have a Knox Box at the main entry ways.
They should have copies of all major keys to the building. Even my small school has this!!!

[drew890]

Those schools should have a Knox Box at the main entry ways.
They should have copies of all major keys to the building. Even my small school has this!!!

That would make complete sense. FD should have had access to the knox box if the school had one.

[earplug]

The military learned along time ago that a unguarded barrier is not secure. I'm sure that a rifle armed bad guy would not be slow to shoot up a lock.
Locks and barriers at school seem to only slow down the calvary.

[hollohas]

If there was shooting going on for a few minutes outside as has been reported, each and every classroom should have been locked down tight before that psycho made entry. Not with keys, with one of the many braces made for exactly this sort of thing.

Like this.

https://fightingchancesolutions.com/products/the-sleeve

Or this (this is what we used at the church I helped do emergency planning at.)

https://nightlock.com/door-security-devices/door-barricade/nightlock-lockdown/


The school didn't have enough emergency training or the tools to keep kids safe.

[00tec]

Mom said he had his reasons


"I have no words. I have no words to say because I don't know what he was thinking. He had his reasons for doing what he did. And please don't judge him. I just want ... To the innocent children who died, forgive me..."

[BPTactical]

I go back to an earlier statement:

Since Columbine we have spent untold trillions$ “defending” other countries.
We have spent virtually nothing securing & hardening our most precious national resources.


Something is seriously wrong with that.

[.455_Hunter]

Mom said he had his reasons


"I have no words. I have no words to say because I don't know what he was thinking. He had his reasons for doing what he did. And please don't judge him. I just want ... To the innocent children who died, forgive me..."


As she is someone who bears a share of actual culpability for this event, my response to her statement wouldn't pass muster even on this forum.

[hollohas]

Uvalde school district police chief,?Pete Arredondo, who ordered cops NOT to engage Texas gunman is a former 911 dispatcher with an unremarkable career who was elected to city council just days before massacre

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10861919/Man-ordered-cops-NOT-tackle-Texas-gunman-former-911-dispatcher-elected-council.html

Says this department is 4 officers, a detective and the chief. It is a school PD only.

And I think it will be gone very soon. My guess is they'll turn the responsibility of protecting the schools over to the SO.

This also explains why the Director of DPS clearly had no respect for the Chief. Highway Patrol typically doesn't like departments with low standards.

[BushMasterBoy]

Kids ought to stay home and learn from a computer. No bus for taxpayers to pay for. Just telecommute. I think going to school is about as outmoded as charging into battle on a horse and brandishing a sword. I went to school in the Air Force at Lowry AFB. They closed it. You know how they train Airmen now? With a computer! Schools need to go the way of the pay phone. School is obsolete. The politicians are just preying on the ignorant. Build a fiber network with high bandwidth and give more power to the people. The money Joe Biden is going to spend to visit Uvalde could turn that school into a fortress. Air Force One costs $200,000 an hour plus. Kids don't need to go to school, school needs to come to them. In the comfort and safety of their own home! Maybe I am just asking too much?

[00tec]

I go back to an earlier statement:

Since Columbine we have spent untold trillions$ ?defending? other countries.
We have spent virtually nothing securing & hardening our most precious national resources.


Something is seriously wrong with that.
Agreed. Secure homeland first. We dumped hundreds of millions of hardware and flat out cash, then dipped out (there is a serious argument about Monopoly money here, but that's a different discussion)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10861919/Man-ordered-cops-NOT-tackle-Texas-gunman-former-911-dispatcher-elected-council.html

Says this department is 4 officers, a detective and the chief. It is a school PD only.

And I think it will be gone very soon. My guess is they'll turn the responsibility of protecting the schools over to the SO.

This also explains why the Director of DPS clearly had no respect for the Chief. Highway Patrol typically doesn't like departments with low standards.
That PoS chief was the one that ordered the halt to go in, and said "we have some deaths"
He can eat a giant elephant penis drizzling with monkey pox.
The local PD had a 9 person SWAT team. Fuck them with ebola coated cactus, mounted on a Sawzall on high.


Kids ought to stay home and learn from a computer. No bus for taxpayers to pay for. Just telecommute. I think going to school is about as outmoded as charging into battle on a horse and brandishing a sword. I went to school in the Air Force at Lowry AFB. They closed it. You know how they train Airmen now? With a computer! Schools need to go the way of the pay phone. School is obsolete. The politicians are just preying on the ignorant. Build a fiber network with high bandwidth and give more power to the people. The money Joe Biden is going to spend to visit Uvalde could turn that school into a fortress. Air Force One costs $200,000 an hour plus. Kids don't need to go to school, school needs to come to them. In the comfort and safety of their own home! Maybe I am just asking too much?

There is a lot to be learned from a social level about how to interact with your fellow human. At home learning doesn't necessarily supply that. Social media has got us where we are. These kids should've been protected with at least a lock. Yeah, shooters will just blow through a lock, but a backdoor, unlocked, unmonitored,, door is grossly irresponsible after what we have seen in the past.

[00tec]

I'm from TX. I had family that lived in Uvalde at some point. I'm not directly involved in this incident, but this incident disturbes me a lot. Schools should have locks before Pakistan gets gender studies donations. The school rent-a-cop should be at the SCHOOL, not riding around collecting breakfast. I understand that high schools are more dynamic with the coming and going, therefore more difficult to secure, but the Crayola kids should be safe in their environment.

[Bailey Guns]

There are plenty of facts that Bailey has failed to look at. It is a proven fact that police refused to make entry while the children were still alive and making 911 calls with cell phones. It?s a fact that officers were maintaining a perimeter while shots were fired inside the classroom. These shots were not out going from the classroom towards officers. This has been documented in multiple videos and feeds.
I am a former Indy Metro officer and have enough experience to have an opinion when LE fails.
The facts are clear and available, I don?t need to wait weeks to formulate an accurate opinion


Yes, there are plenty of facts I've failed to look at because they aren't yet available. But you're obviously not capable of objectively looking at what I wrote because I responded to everything you've said.

The fact is, right or wrong (obviously now we know it's wrong), once the shooter barricaded himself in the classroom the on scene commander thought the incident changed to a barricaded gunman scenario. That's why he didn't order officers to breach the room. We know now that was the wrong decision. But if that's what he thought it makes sense that that's why officers held back. I don't know what was going on in his mind and I don't know what information he had. Maybe you do. But many officers ON SCENE, said once he was in the classroom there was a flurry of gunfire but it then became sporadic and they thought he was firing random shots to keep them away or to attempt suicide by cop. Yes...LIKE I'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED...there were 911 calls from inside the school. Much of that information DIDN'T MAKE IT TO ON SCENE OFFICERS due to a failure somewhere in the process.

I'm not gonna post a bunch of knee-jerk nonsense when I don't know exactly what happened. You go right ahead.

This was obviously a cluster fuck and a lot of bad decisions seem to have been made. Unfortunately, a bunch of kids died because of it. But I'm also interested in why those bad decisions were made. That isn't exactly clear yet.

[Bailey Guns]

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said Friday that when officers were responding to Robb Elementary School, “there was a barrage – hundreds of rounds were pumped in, in four minutes,” into two classrooms inside the school.

“Any firing afterwards was sporadic and it was at the door,” McCraw continued. “So the belief is that there may not be anybody living anymore and that the subject is now trying to keep law enforcement at bay or enticing them to come in and suicide [by cop].”

McCraw made the remark after saying the incident commander on-scene, Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Chief of Police Pete Arredondo, made a decision to transition the law enforcement response to the event toward a barricaded subject situation, and away from an active shooter one.

McCraw later called it the “wrong decision, period.”

Just in case it wasn't clear...

[hollohas]

Just in case it wasn't clear...So, providing medical aid to kids he admits he KNEW were ALL shot was not a priority because the bad guy barricaded the door? BS. Barricaded suspect or not, active shooting or not, they should have went in. Kids were bleeding out. He knew that.

He assumed all the kids were dead because the shooting slowed down. That's the most fucked up assumption anyone has ever made.

Hey, think anyone is still alive in there? Meh, probably not, he's only shooting a little bit. He surely found every kid hiding and killed them all instantly. The sporadic shooting is definitely NOT him finding additional kids and killing them as he finds them, nope. Not one is still alive bleeding out.

Said no one ever. Except apparently this dipshit.

And BTW, what proof do we have that the 911 dispatchers didn't inform those on scene that kids were calling inside? I've not seen a single article claim that. Seems like we're just assuming that's the case to provide some sort of justification for them not going in..

[Great-Kazoo]

I go back to an earlier statement:

Since Columbine we have spent untold trillions$ “defending” other countries.
We have spent virtually nothing securing & hardening our most precious national resources.


Something is seriously wrong with that.

For those with a fb account. here's a good read from the yuma cty sheriff.

https://www.facebook.com/yumacountysheriff.az






For those w/out fb.


Get comfortable..............

Press Release
May 27, 2022 - 6:00 PM
Sheriff Wilmot’s Open Letter in the Wake of Robb Elementary School Tragedy
Location: Yuma County, AZ


Yuma County Sheriff Leon Wilmot has issued the following statement in response to the recent tragedy that took place at Robb Elementary School:
In January of 2013, I submitted an open letter in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School Tragedy. Nearly 8 ? years later, we once again find ourselves horrified by a senseless tragedy perpetrated by a deranged individual. As I look at this most recent horrific event, I see a common theme; political figures demanding action, lamenting ‘gun violence’ while seeking to conceal their own failure to take any meaningful action.

There is an underlying root cause of all of these tragedies and, in spite of what seems to dominate the news cycle, banning guns does nothing to address the true underlying issue. The real cause of these tragedies is the decay of societal morals, and the dismal approach to addressing mental health treatment in this nation.


For years, many in congress have capitalized on these tragedies to further their own personal and political agendas. In spite of ample opportunity, they have repeatedly refused to acknowledge or address the mental health crisis. Many of these same politicians have also endlessly promoted ‘Defund Police’ campaigns and advocate for removing police officers from schools, again to serve their own ideological and political agendas.

These are also the same politicians behind the so-called ‘criminal justice reform’ which in practice has resulted in hundreds of dangerous offenders being released back onto the streets to further victimize honest, law-abiding citizens. Again and again, a politician seeking the spotlight demands gun control.


As you will read below, my statement from 2013 still rings true today in the wake of this most recent tragedy in Uvalde. Our elected officials in congress need to quit blaming inanimate objects for the decay we see in society and act to address the overwhelming mental health crisis that serves as the single common thread in each of these horrific events.


*January 23, 2013
As your Yuma County Sheriff, I am sickened and heartbroken by the recent mass murders of innocent victims at the hands of violent criminals. Like all Americans, I wish for justice to be served upon those responsible for perpetrating these horrible crimes. I also pray that the families of those victims receive peace in this time of tragedy.

As a law enforcement officer, I have dedicated my life to defending our community and residents against all evil that would be perpetrated upon them by criminals. Like all law enforcement officers, I am bound by solemn oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution and laws of the State of Arizona, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to defend them from all enemies, foreign and domestic.


As our nation struggles to find answers to the problems that lead a very few among us to commit these senseless criminal acts, I am gravely concerned that some would further victimize the multitude of honest, law abiding citizens, through misguided and uninformed decisions intended to prevent future acts of violence.

As your Sheriff and a citizen of the State of Arizona and the United States of America, I firmly support the Bill of Rights, to include the Second Amendment. Through my own experience, I have learned that any such misguided attempt to limit the access of violent criminals to the tools they would use to commit these crimes only serves one purpose, to prevent the honest law abiding citizens access to the means to defend themselves.

I must question the motives of those in positions of authority who would set aside the clear principles this nation was founded upon and capitalize on tragedy in order to further their own agenda. I disagree with those who believe that American Citizens should be prevented access to particular types of firearms, that through their ignorance or willful intent, they have determined to be responsible for the atrocities committed upon our citizens by criminals. A firearm is a tool and as such is incapable of independent action. The manner in which that tool is used is entirely dependent on the individual who wields it.


As your Sheriff, I am committed to enforcing the laws of the State of Arizona. I will continue to do so aggressively and impartially. I have yet to find any criminal act committed with a firearm that is not already sufficiently outlawed by existing statute.
The creation and imposition of new regulations by our Federal Government, either via congress or executive order, on our rights granted by the Second Amendment would be foolish and misguided and serve only to criminalize honest, law abiding citizens.

I am a strong proponent of investigating the underlying causes of these recent tragedies and working together to address those shortcomings with real solutions. I am a strong proponent of enforcing existing laws and holding those who choose to violate those laws accountable for their actions.

I am a strong proponent of an honest law abiding citizen’s right to defend themselves and their families and will not suffer any infringement upon those rights.
Information Released By: Sheriff Leon Wilmot

[leightoncash]

Kids ought to stay home and learn from a computer. No bus for taxpayers to pay for. Just telecommute. I think going to school is about as outmoded as charging into battle on a horse and brandishing a sword. I went to school in the Air Force at Lowry AFB. They closed it. You know how they train Airmen now? With a computer! Schools need to go the way of the pay phone. School is obsolete. The politicians are just preying on the ignorant. Build a fiber network with high bandwidth and give more power to the people. The money Joe Biden is going to spend to visit Uvalde could turn that school into a fortress. Air Force One costs $200,000 an hour plus. Kids don't need to go to school, school needs to come to them. In the comfort and safety of their own home! Maybe I am just asking too much?


This might seem like a good idea, but having kids isolated at home staring at a computer is a perfect way to crush kids' souls. It's what we did to them during the Covid lockdowns, and suicide and mental health crisis numbers absolutely exploded, while also destroying the grades and learning of huge percentage of kids. Most people working around schools know that the online year was basically a lost year academically. In fact, I would bet serious money that the online isolated year was when the school shooter's issues became fully formed.

[Hummer]

Thanks for that, GK.

[eddiememphis]

Ban guns. Ban ammo. Bad bad people.
Ban politicians. Ban schools. Ban the internet.
Ban video games. Ban Lon. Ban talk radio.
Ban sports. Ban roll-on. Ban evil thoughts.
Ban fossil fuels. Ban the Constitution. Ban globalism.

Did I miss any?

[Bailey Guns]

So, providing medical aid to kids he admits he KNEW were ALL shot was not a priority because the bad guy barricaded the door? BS. Barricaded suspect or not, active shooting or not, they should have went in. Kids were bleeding out. He knew that.

He assumed all the kids were dead because the shooting slowed down. That's the most fucked up assumption anyone has ever made.

Hey, think anyone is still alive in there? Meh, probably not, he's only shooting a little bit. He surely found every kid hiding and killed them all instantly. The sporadic shooting is definitely NOT him finding additional kids and killing them as he finds them, nope. Not one is still alive bleeding out.

Said no one ever. Except apparently this dipshit.

And BTW, what proof do we have that the 911 dispatchers didn't inform those on scene that kids were calling inside? I've not seen a single article claim that. Seems like we're just assuming that's the case to provide some sort of justification for them not going in..

That's not what I meant by that. I was responding to another poster who said I hadn't looked at facts. I posted that as a reference to what I'd already stated.

FFS... I'm not defending what the police did or didn't do. I'm just asking for people to be objective.

[Bailey Guns]

Kids ought to stay home and learn from a computer. No bus for taxpayers to pay for. Just telecommute. I think going to school is about as outmoded as charging into battle on a horse and brandishing a sword. I went to school in the Air Force at Lowry AFB. They closed it. You know how they train Airmen now? With a computer! Schools need to go the way of the pay phone. School is obsolete. The politicians are just preying on the ignorant. Build a fiber network with high bandwidth and give more power to the people. The money Joe Biden is going to spend to visit Uvalde could turn that school into a fortress. Air Force One costs $200,000 an hour plus. Kids don't need to go to school, school needs to come to them. In the comfort and safety of their own home! Maybe I am just asking too much?

That's just a horrible idea. Have you not read about the problems this caused during the COVID school closures?

[Gman]

Ban guns. Ban ammo. Bad bad people.
Ban politicians. Ban schools. Ban the internet.
Ban video games. Ban Lon. Ban talk radio.
Ban sports. Ban roll-on. Ban evil thoughts.
Ban fossil fuels. Ban the Constitution. Ban globalism.

Did I miss any?
Ban Bans

Kids should be going to school and interacting with other kids. They also should be taught how to learn and not how to think. Teaching should focus on fundamentals, including personal finance and civics, and not a BS social engineering agenda.

[OneGuy67]

A little food for thought, for those willing. The doors of all the schools I attended as a kid and the doors at my kid's elementary school were/are solid wood doors that opened outward. Some had slit windows in them, some did not. Hard, but not impossible to breach if you have the right tools. In the videos I've watched, I did not see anyone carrying breaching tools, be it a halligan, a ram, long bar crowbar, or an axe towards the school. These are not tools that the everyday patrol officer carries in his vehicle. Did they have them available? Did they think to call the FD to get these tools if they didn't? Did the wannabe Uvalde SWAT team have them? Did the CBP officers have them? if the answer is they did not have these tools, how were they supposed to breach the door?

All buildings in CO should have FD knox box's on them to allow the FD to gain access to buildings in the event of a fire alarm or actual fire. In some cities, there is a blue striped knox box for LE use. Inside those boxes are master keys. Did the school have a knox box? Did the LE on scene have access to the box via the FD?

By pointing these things out, I am in no way justifying the delay or hesitation of the officers on scene from trying to do something.

[.455_Hunter]

Kids ought to stay home and learn from a computer. No bus for taxpayers to pay for. Just telecommute. I think going to school is about as outmoded as charging into battle on a horse and brandishing a sword. I went to school in the Air Force at Lowry AFB. They closed it. You know how they train Airmen now? With a computer! Schools need to go the way of the pay phone. School is obsolete. The politicians are just preying on the ignorant. Build a fiber network with high bandwidth and give more power to the people. The money Joe Biden is going to spend to visit Uvalde could turn that school into a fortress. Air Force One costs $200,000 an hour plus. Kids don't need to go to school, school needs to come to them. In the comfort and safety of their own home! Maybe I am just asking too much?


Do you have school age kids?

[hollohas]

FFS... I'm not defending what the police did or didn't do.

I know you're not.

[Ah Pook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btfcVYIHIsI
Prove me wrong, please.

[Great-Kazoo]

A little food for thought, for those willing. The doors of all the schools I attended as a kid and the doors at my kid's elementary school were/are solid wood doors that opened outward. Some had slit windows in them, some did not. Hard, but not impossible to breach if you have the right tools. In the videos I've watched, I did not see anyone carrying breaching tools, be it a halligan, a ram, long bar crowbar, or an axe towards the school. These are not tools that the everyday patrol officer carries in his vehicle. Did they have them available? Did they think to call the FD to get these tools if they didn't? Did the wannabe Uvalde SWAT team have them? Did the CBP officers have them? if the answer is they did not have these tools, how were they supposed to breach the door?

All buildings in CO should have FD knox box's on them to allow the FD to gain access to buildings in the event of a fire alarm or actual fire. In some cities, there is a blue striped knox box for LE use. Inside those boxes are master keys. Did the school have a knox box? Did the LE on scene have access to the box via the FD?

By pointing these things out, I am in no way justifying the delay or hesitation of the officers on scene from trying to do something.

Patrol car, meet front door of school .

[OneGuy67]

Patrol car, meet front door of school .

The cops were inside the school, in the hallway where the suspect was in a classroom. What good would it do for a patrol car to be run into the front door of the school?

[Great-Kazoo]

The cops were inside the school, in the hallway where the suspect was in a classroom. What good would it do for a patrol car to be run into the front door of the school?


If there was an issue breaching the main door. Based on the many confusing stories i read. They were either unable to enter the building, or the room. I doubt the entire truth will be made public, any time soon.

[crashdown]

Speaking of confusing reporting…..
Biden yesterday all but promised a “ban on high caliber weapons”.
Wonder what the caliber safety cutoff will be, I personally don’t go over .45 of an inch.

[eddiememphis]

"It makes no sense to be able to purchase something that can fire up to 300 rounds," he told reporters outside the White House after traveling from Delaware. "The idea of these high-caliber weapons there's simply no rational basis for it in terms of, about self-protection, hunting and I guess and, remember, the Constitution, the Second Amendment was never absolute. You couldn't buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed. You couldn't go out and purchase a lot of weaponry."

He also said a .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the body and we can get it out. A 9mm bullet will blow a lung out of the body.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Speaking of confusing reporting…..
Biden yesterday all but promised a “ban on high caliber weapons”.
Wonder what the caliber safety cutoff will be, I personally don’t go over .45 of an inch.

Since Miller v. United States (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174) was the Supreme Court decision which upheld the National Firearms Act (by reversing a District Court opinion that held the NFA to be unconstitutional) and therefore provided the foundation for all modern gun control efforts, it's useful to see what that decision actually said:


5

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense. Aymette v. State of Tennessee, 2 Humph., Tenn., 154, 158.

6

The Constitution as originally adopted granted to the Congress power—'To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.' U.S.C.A.Const. art. 1, ? 8. With obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such forces the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.
7

The Nilitia which the States were expected to maintain and train is set in contrast with Troops which they were forbidden to keep without the consent of Congress. The sentiment of the time strongly disfavored standing armies; the common view was that adequate defense of country and laws could be secured through the Militia—civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.
8

The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.



14

The General Court of Massachusetts, January Session 1784 (Laws and Resolves 1784, c. 55, pp. 140, 142), provided for the organization and government of the Militia. It directed that the Train Band should 'contain all able bodied men, from sixteen to forty years of age, and the Alarm List, all other men under sixty years of age, * * *.' Also, 'That every non-commissioned officer and private soldier of the said militia not under the controul of parents, masters or guardians, and being of sufficient ability therefor in the judgment of the Selectmen of the town in which he shall dwell, shall equip himself, and be constantly provided with a good fire arm, &c.'
15

By an Act passed April 4, 1786 (Laws 1786, c. 25), the New York Legislature directed: 'That every able-bodied Male Person, being a Citizen of this State, or of any of the United States, and residing in this State, (except such Persons as are herein after excepted) and who are of the Age of Sixteen, and under the Age of Forty-five Years, shall, by the Captain or commanding Officer of the Beat in which such Citizens shall reside, within four Months after the passing of this Act, be enrolled in the Company of such Beat. * * * That every Citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within three Months thereafter, provide himself, at his own Expense, with a good Musket or Firelock, a sufficient Bayonet and Belt, a Pouch with a Box therein to contain not less than Twenty-four Cartridges suited to the Bore of his Musket or Firelock, each Cartridge containing a proper Quantity of Powder and Ball, two spare Flints, a Blanket and Knapsack; * * *.'
16

The General Assembly of Virginia, October, 1785 (12 Hening's Statutes c. 1, p. 9 et seq.), declared: 'The defense and safety of the commonwealth depend upon having its citizens properly armed and taught the knowledge of military duty.'
17

It further provided for organization and control of the Militia and directed that 'All free male persons between the ages of eighteen and fifty years,' with certain exceptions, 'shall be inrolled or formed into companies.' 'There shall be a private muster of every company once in two months.'


Note that in section 5 of the opinion, the objection to the shortened shotgun was that it was NOT useful as a military weapon. I understand the Court reached this conclusion because they were told by government lawyers that the US Army did not keep or use short shotguns Miller was not able to correct the "facts" provided to the Supreme Court because he had died before it was heard and therefore the only lawyers arguing before the Court were the government's. Unfortunately, Biden and Bloomberg will probably get away with an unconstitutional attack on private firearm ownership because the election season of 2020 proved that the general public will get only propaganda instead of facts if there's ever a case to overrule Miller v. United States

[brutal]

"It makes no sense to be able to purchase something that can fire up to 300 rounds," he told reporters outside the White House after traveling from Delaware. "The idea of these high-caliber weapons there's simply no rational basis for it in terms of, about self-protection, hunting and I guess and, remember, the Constitution, the Second Amendment was never absolute. You couldn't buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed. You couldn't go out and purchase a lot of weaponry."

He also said a .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the body and we can get it out. A 9mm bullet will blow a lung out of the body.

That cannon thing always gets me.

There's at least a few members here that own a cannon and it's not even NFA*.

The FUDD sh*t he says is just astounding.

ETA: OK, I looked it up. Pre 1898 muzzle loaders are non NFA.

[Great-Kazoo]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/timeline-events-surrounding-uvalde-texas-202147308.html

[Martinjmpr]

Since Miller v. United States (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174) was the Supreme Court decision which upheld the National Firearms Act (by reversing a District Court opinion that held the NFA to be unconstitutional) and therefore provided the foundation for all modern gun control efforts, it's useful to see what that decision actually said:





Note that in section 5 of the opinion, the objection to the shortened shotgun was that it was NOT useful as a military weapon. I understand the Court reached this conclusion because they were told by government lawyers that the US Army did not keep or use short shotguns Miller was not able to correct the "facts" provided to the Supreme Court because he had died before it was heard and therefore the only lawyers arguing before the Court were the government's. Unfortunately, Biden and Bloomberg will probably get away with an unconstitutional attack on private firearm ownership because the election season of 2020 proved that the general public will get only propaganda instead of facts if there's ever a case to overrule Miller v. United States


I'm not sure Miller is good law anymore anyway after Heller and McDonald. The Miller decision stated that there had to be some relationship between a "membership in a well regulated militia" and the right to own firearms. Heller reversed that and said that it is the right of every American to own firearms. McDonald echoed Heller in that respect and extended that right to the states.

Whether the Miller decision's conclusion that Congress has the authority to ban a specific weapon if that weapon is not of the type that is used by a "well regulated militia" (which was the government's argument) I could see a modern court stating that as "dicta" or, or not an important part of the Miller decision, as the the Miller decision's primary purpose was the constitutionality of the NFA, not whether this weapon or that weapon can be regulated by Congress.

It would be an interesting question to see SCOTUS revisit the issue of just exactly WHAT weapons are protected by the 2nd Amendment, since they conveniently (and not accidentally) dodged that question in both Heller and McDonald.

[Martinjmpr]

That cannon thing always gets me.

There's at least a few members here that own a cannon and it's not even NFA*.

The FUDD sh*t he says is just astounding.

ETA: OK, I looked it up. Pre 1898 muzzle loaders are non NFA.

There were guys in my Guard unit who brought old black powder cannons home from Afghanistan. Approved by both the BATFE and the Army and complete with appropriate "war trophy" paperwork.

[crashdown]

Brandon is gonna re-crap his depends when he finds out what caliber a typical AR uses.
Ill never understand why these anti gun politicians refuse to become the least bit educated about something they profess to care so deeply for…. bayonet lugs, shoulder thingys that go up, and barrel shrouds!

[walkerwv]

Easy One to figure out with these clowns. They get Us worked up on 9mm and after the con has worked then they say OK we will take away the So called assualt weapon and most of Us will go PPPPhhhhtttfff OK can live with that and not my 9.

[Great-Kazoo]

Easy One to figure out with these clowns. They get Us worked up on 9mm and after the con has worked then they say OK we will take away the So called assualt weapon and most of Us will go PPPPhhhhtttfff OK can live with that and not my 9.

NO ONE NEEDS 9MM TO HUNT DEER!


your post is sad, but true. Of course they'll be a rush on 9mm AR's





























[Sarcasm2]

[eddiememphis]

There are calls to raise the age to buy "AR style rifles" to 21.

This is nonsense. If you are going to raise the age, make it for all rifles, not just some. You know they will fuck up what constitutes an AR style.

It's the old argument, ban an AR, buy a Mini-14.

I have no problem with the purchasing age being raised to 21 across the board with the usual exceptions for military and police personnel.

[BushMasterBoy]

https://www.grainger.com/product/S-E-T-TOOLS-Tactical-Sledge-Hammer-32-6VMZ6?opr=APPD&analytics=altItems_6VMZ5

[BPTactical]

There are calls to raise the age to buy "AR style rifles" to 21.

This is nonsense. If you are going to raise the age, make it for all rifles, not just some. You know they will fuck up what constitutes an AR style.

It's the old argument, ban an AR, buy a Mini-14.

I have no problem with the purchasing age being raised to 21 across the board with the usual exceptions for military and police personnel.



I am ok with raising the age to 21.

Raise the age of the draft to 21.


Raise voting age to 21.


Raise driving age to 21.

Raise the age of eligibility for an abortion to 21.



Raise them all to 21

[JohnnyDrama]

I am ok with raising the age to 21.

Raise the age of the draft to 21.


Raise voting age to 21.


Raise driving age to 21.

Raise the age of eligibility for an abortion to 21.



Raise them all to 21

I think a lot of today's kids would be absolutely okay with this idea. In fact, many may not even notice. I think the military benefit from more mature recruits. Maybe there could be an exception for people who have come from a military academy. Lots of kids (and adults) don't bother voting at any age. I've heard quite a few stories of kids who don't drive until well after 18. The idea of ending up in a family way get some teens to postpone sex or be more responsible about it - I won't hold my breath on this one though. Staying at "home" while working/continuing school may help a lot of kids to understand household economics. Maybe, if parents realize that their kids are likely going to be around for a few more years, they may be more thoughtful in raising them. Again, I won't hold my breath.

[Fentonite]

I am ok with raising the age to 21.

Raise the age of the draft to 21.


Raise voting age to 21.


Raise driving age to 21.

Raise the age of eligibility for an abortion to 21.



Raise them all to 21

And raise the age at which one can decide which gender they want to be to 21. If the prefrontal cortex isn?t developed enough at 18 to responsibly own a firearm, it certainly isn?t developed enough at 7 to decide what gender you think you are. FWIW, the suicide rate among folks who surgically alter their gender is astronomically higher than that of gun owners. This country?s priorities are absurd beyond repair.

[TRnCO]

I'd vote for that^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Hummer]

https://www.grainger.com/product/S-E-T-TOOLS-Tactical-Sledge-Hammer-32-6VMZ6?opr=APPD&analytics=altItems_6VMZ5

I've got a few of those. One could use a new handle. Maybe I should start a new thread.

Although, my tactical post pounder would probably work as well.... [cigar]

[.455_Hunter]

As someone who purchased multiple long-guns and actively possessed handguns while in the 18-20 age bracket, I oppose such patronizing blanket restrictions. Such actions will directly target people like my 16 year old son.

[Gman]

"It makes no sense to be able to purchase something that can fire up to 300 rounds," he told reporters outside the White House after traveling from Delaware. "The idea of these high-caliber weapons there's simply no rational basis for it in terms of, about self-protection, hunting and I guess and, remember, the Constitution, the Second Amendment was never absolute. You couldn't buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed. You couldn't go out and purchase a lot of weaponry."

He also said a .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the body and we can get it out. A 9mm bullet will blow a lung out of the body.

He keeps saying that about cannons...and he's ABSOLUTELY WRONG! You could privately own warships loaded with cannons. The US government even contracted with these privateers in time of conflict.

[Gman]

It makes no sense that you can be of the age of majority but limited in the exercising of your Constitutionally protected rights that you were born with.

[BushMasterBoy]

I've got a few of those. One could use a new handle. Maybe I should start a new thread.

Although, my tactical post pounder would probably work as well.... [cigar]

I've got a 12 pounder sledge hammer, I doubt a classroom door would hold up to it. Concrete deck that fell away from the house by sinking into soft soil lasted about 20 minutes. 4000 lbs of concrete reduced to rubble.

Of course a BobCat with jackhammer attachment could breech a door too. Cinder blocks would be like crushing saltines in my hand. Not sure why one would wait for a key?

[hollohas]

This article has an ABC news video clip which plays audio of a dispatcher asking if there are any officers inside because 911 has a child on the line who is still in the room and relayed that 8-9 individuals were still alive.

Who knows if they use an interagency incident channel down there or not. But dispatch DID tell at least some department that kids were alive inside. They knew it wasn't just a barricaded suspect...

Anyone see, hear or read any statements given by the Uvalde School district police chief? I haven't and I've been looking. Super strange that the guy responsible for their school security hasn't had anything to say...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10871737/New-footage-reveals-Uvalde-cops-KNEW-kids-alive-room-gunman.html

[hollohas]

Some of us are raising children with the intent they act like functioning adults and expect them to leave and do it on their own when they turn 18.

Most of us here did.

Prolonging childhood doesn't help anyone. It certainly won't help the direction our society is heading. We need to encourage young adults to be mature members of society, not the opposite. Responsibility is a powerful thing. Lack of responsibility is bad news.

I'll pass on making everything adult at 21.

[Waldo1]

The Sheriff of Polk County, FL has let his feelings be known. Undeterred by controversy, Grady Judd always tells it like it is.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/we-are-going-shoot-you-graveyard-dead-florida-sheriff-warns-potential-school-shooters

[JohnnyDrama]

... This country?s priorities are absurd beyond repair.

And there we have the reasons for so many things.

[Fentonite]

….
I'll pass on making everything adult at 21.
I would too - wasn’t actually endorsing changing legal age as much as calling out the hypocrisy. Regarding gender identity, there really shouldn’t be an age when it’s ok to be insane.

[kidicarus13]

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

[hollohas]

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405I just read that too. WTF? They're LEOs, it's literally their job to cooperate with investigations. If they won't cooperate with a mass murder investigation in their own jurisdiction, they should immediately be fired.

[Great-Kazoo]

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

The narrative has also changed. No one left the teachers door, open???

https://www.yahoo.com/news/authorities-security-video-shows-back-172307296.html

[theGinsue]

The Sheriff of Polk County, FL has let his feelings be known. Undeterred by controversy, Grady Judd always tells it like it is.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/we-are-going-shoot-you-graveyard-dead-florida-sheriff-warns-potential-school-shooters

A quote from that article:

The sheriff said good guys with guns would end the terror even before it started.

While I absolutely appreciate the message the Sheriff is trying to make, a comment like this is irresponsible as it may be taken as a challenge to those mentally unstable enough to even consider a school shooting.

[Great-Kazoo]

It makes no sense that you can be of the age of majority but limited in the exercising of your Constitutionally protected rights that you were born with.

Here's what i've been saying, as well as asking on social media platforms.


SO... The current thinking is AN 18 YR OLD ISN'T MATURE ENOUGH TO BUY A SEMI-AUTO RIFLE!!!

Correct??? Naturally they respond. ABSOLUTELY!!, like lemmings.

OK, explain to us how it is you people who say, an 18 yr old isn't mature enough to buy a rifle / semi-auto.

Is old enough to be drafted, or enlist. CHECK!

Also say a 16 yr old is mature enough to vote, Correct?

AND.......................

a FIVE YEAR OLD IS MATURE ENOUGH TO CHOOSE THEIR GENDER???


DO any of you realize the hypocrisy you spew, daily???


BUT, BUT... THAT'S DIFFERENT!. of course it is. Because you folks have a fuked sense of priority's and moral compass , derp, derp

[theGinsue]

The narrative has also changed. No one left the teachers door, open???

https://www.yahoo.com/news/authorities-security-video-shows-back-172307296.html

Yeah, I expected this story to change from the beginning. If they didn't change the story, such malfeasance would be ripe for civil, if not criminal, lawsuits.

[Rooskibar03]

Uvalde PD no longer cooperating with TPS investigation? Circle they wagons, heads are about to roll. As they should.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

[Great-Kazoo]

Uvalde PD no longer cooperating with TPS investigation? Circle they wagons, heads are about to roll. As they should.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

while i'm armchair qb'ing here. IMO charges of some sort should be dropped on the p.d, chief, as well as the yes the door was open, no it wasn't teacher . Who was caught on security footage, doing what is now being denied happening.

[copfish]

The criminal conduct of the district employees will be fodder for the impending civil law suites. As it should be. The district is circling the wagons to try and buy time to find the goat to sacrifice as to limit damage and liability.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm reading a teacher initially propped a door open with a rock. The teacher then closed the door after the shooting began. But apparently, the door didn't close like it should've or teacher didn't insure door was closed like s/he should've. Either way, the door wasn't locked and secured and it should've been. I have no explanation as to why the chief isn't talking other than he's afraid of the impending civil suit(s). As well he should be...

[Mtneer]

Good analysis by a retired cop with a lot of relevant experience:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/analysis-of-the-uvalde-school-shooting-and-implications-for-the-future

[hollohas]

Every timeline I have read indicates he was shooting for about 5 mins outside before making entry. Even though the outside door was propped (or not) those classrooms should have been locked down tight before he made it inside the building! If he was able to barricade the classroom door so effectively that police couldn't enter, it should have been barricaded while he was shooting outside to make sure HE couldn't enter. The school had two chances to keep him locked out and they failed to do both.

I'll repeat what I said before, every school needs door barricades TODAY. Parents, find out what your school has for classroom barricades. If they don't have any, demand they install them before school starts in August. I included links to 2 easy, effective and cheap devices in an earlier post.

[hollohas]

From the Uvalde PD official FB page.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220601/c552dc983c968f72b90ee0e040aff1f2.jpg

[MAP]

I'm reading a teacher initially propped a door open with a rock. The teacher then closed the door after the shooting began. But apparently, the door didn't close like it should've or teacher didn't insure door was closed like s/he should've. Either way, the door wasn't locked and secured and it should've been. I have no explanation as to why the chief isn't talking other than he's afraid of the impending civil suit(s). As well he should be...

At this point the lawyers are telling the PD and Town to STFU. Nothing good ever comes from talking to the press.

[Great-Kazoo]

https://www.insider.com/uvalde-schools-police-chief-said-he-intentionally-left-radios-behind-2022-6

[Bailey Guns]

I read that. So a radio will slow him down and keep him from shooting accurately?


At this point the lawyers are telling the PD and Town to STFU. Nothing good ever comes from talking to the press.

The chief should've thought about that before he opened his mouth... On the other hand, that might've been what his lawyer told him to say.

[hollohas]

Holy crap, that chief is the WORST. What an absolute dipshit. He left his radio because he thought the antenna would hit him as he ran??? This guy has got to be the lowest IQ Chief in history.

He thought it would give away his position? Turn it down then you moron.

[hollohas]

Son of a...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-video-shows-police-never-tried-to-open-door-to-get-in-texas-classroom-where-shooter-was-report-says?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

?Surveillance footage shows that police never tried to open a door to two classrooms at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde in the 77 minutes between the time a gunman entered the rooms and massacred 21 people and officers finally breached the door and killed him,?

[00tec]

Those bitchmade motherfuckers

[hollohas]

Remember when they said they had to wait for bigger guns and a shield in order to go into the school and save kids?

Lying fucks. Cowards.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220621/695cac106d90cc8f59c22d8f382a99a1.jpg

[BPTactical]

^^^^sickening

[Sawin]

When politics and policy neuter a department, you’re left with pussies and beta males (probably lesser) who cannot act… let our warriors act immediately and this crap will lessen.

[hollohas]

It's been standard policy to act immediately for decades. These douche bags were cowards regardless of policy.

But I think I know what you mean. Not as many real men want to be LEOs anymore because they get treated like shit. So many departments are forced to hire retards. It's too bad good officers have to work with sissies like these. I'm betting it's taking a lot of self control for the good officers in that town, the ones who went in, not to take these dipshits behind the woodshed.

These wannabes are going to have to enter witness protection now that the parents have seen this.

[Martinjmpr]

It's been standard policy to act immediately for decades. These douche bags were cowards regardless of policy.

But I think I know what you mean. Not as many real men want to be LEOs anymore because they get treated like shit. So many departments are forced to hire retards. It's too bad good officers have to work with sissies like these. I'm betting it's taking a lot of self control for the good officers in that town, the ones who went in, not to take these dipshits behind the woodshed.

These wannabes are going to have to enter witness protection now that the parents have seen this.

Back when the whole BLM/Defund the police movement was in the news, I thought we'd start to see more stuff like this.

Here's why: People who are good candidates - intelligent, disciplined, motivated and serious - have LOTS of options open to them. Used to be the big police departments would compete for these good candidates by offering them good pay, benefits, pension, etc.

But people with lots of options don't want to go into a job where they're going to constantly be second-guessed by outsiders who have no idea of what they have to deal with, have never walked in their shoes and who have the luxury of deliberating over a decision that the officer has, literally, seconds to make in the heat of the moment.

It used to be that as a society we gave cops the "benefit of the doubt" so that if they made a split-second decision that turned out to be wrong, we'd go easy on them because we understood that MOST of the time MOST cops will get it right. We also knew that having cops who are afraid to make difficult decisions because they're afraid of the consequences of making the wrong decision offer pretty much NO benefit to society.

(Reminds me of that great scene in Band of Brothers where 1SG Lipton was pointing out the flaws of LT. Dike. "He wasn't a bad officer because he made bad decisions. He was a bad officer because he made NO decisions.")

But the more vilified police get, the more those "high achievers" will either retire or simply pursue other interests because, as I said above, they are high achievers: They can pick and choose.

But if the high achievers, the good candidates, choose to go into other lines of work, that means the "pool" of candidates for those police jobs will get worse and worse. Those jobs won't go unfilled - after all, they're "good government jobs" with a nice guaranteed paycheck and a benefits package. But the people filling them won't be the best candidates, instead they'll be people who don't have other skills and who just need a job.

Which in turn will lead to MORE bad interactions with citizens, MORE cowardly failures like we saw at Uvalde, MORE corruption and incompetence. And of course - MORE CRIME because the Keystone Cops can't or won't do their jobs.

And the saddest part of all is that the very communities that are pushing the BLM/Defund the police the hardest are also the same ones that are the most impacted by crime. [Rant1]

[.455_Hunter]

Pathetic and vomit inducing...


The head of the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday that Uvalde police could have stopped the mass shooting at Robb Elementary within three minutes, calling their response an "abject failure."


https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-official-uvalde-classroom-door-unlocked-shooting-officers-waited-keys

[Mtneer]

Grim updated assessment from the retired cop I linked to before.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/uvalde-updates

[eddiememphis]

We also knew that having cops who are afraid to make difficult decisions because they're afraid of the consequences of making the wrong decision offer pretty much NO benefit to society.

That applies to all everyone, not just police officers.

[Singlestack]

And the saddest part of all is that the very communities that are pushing the BLM/Defund the police the hardest are also the same ones that are the most impacted by crime. [Rant1]

I kind of disagree with this. From what I can tell, the activists, Prog city councils, mayors, and Soros prosecutors and DAs that are pushing defund the police are not those who live there - they are generally white and rich or middle/upper class. The minorities and lower class whites who live there are the ones affected by it, and they don't support defund the cops at all.

[hollohas]

Responding officers not only detained parents who tried to go in, they detained at least one fellow officer who tried to do his job.

When this good officer tried to go stop this, he was detained by fellow officers and had his weapon taken away.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/special-reports/uvalde-school-shooting/uvalde-teacher-husband-officer-detained-gun-taken-away/287-fce727c0-dcc3-413e-953b-90bdfb830f13

This gets more sickening the more we learn. It's WAY worse than any of us originally thought.

[eddiememphis]

Yet, despite all the mounting evidence of police mishandling the situation, it is still the gun's fault.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61890403

"Tuesday evening's Senate vote - which was only procedural - passed 64 to 34 in less than two hours after the final text was circulated."

[D_F]

Nail on the head.




Back when the whole BLM/Defund the police movement was in the news, I thought we'd start to see more stuff like this.

Here's why: People who are good candidates - intelligent, disciplined, motivated and serious - have LOTS of options open to them. Used to be the big police departments would compete for these good candidates by offering them good pay, benefits, pension, etc.

But people with lots of options don't want to go into a job where they're going to constantly be second-guessed by outsiders who have no idea of what they have to deal with, have never walked in their shoes and who have the luxury of deliberating over a decision that the officer has, literally, seconds to make in the heat of the moment.

It used to be that as a society we gave cops the "benefit of the doubt" so that if they made a split-second decision that turned out to be wrong, we'd go easy on them because we understood that MOST of the time MOST cops will get it right. We also knew that having cops who are afraid to make difficult decisions because they're afraid of the consequences of making the wrong decision offer pretty much NO benefit to society.

(Reminds me of that great scene in Band of Brothers where 1SG Lipton was pointing out the flaws of LT. Dike. "He wasn't a bad officer because he made bad decisions. He was a bad officer because he made NO decisions.")

But the more vilified police get, the more those "high achievers" will either retire or simply pursue other interests because, as I said above, they are high achievers: They can pick and choose.

But if the high achievers, the good candidates, choose to go into other lines of work, that means the "pool" of candidates for those police jobs will get worse and worse. Those jobs won't go unfilled - after all, they're "good government jobs" with a nice guaranteed paycheck and a benefits package. But the people filling them won't be the best candidates, instead they'll be people who don't have other skills and who just need a job.

Which in turn will lead to MORE bad interactions with citizens, MORE cowardly failures like we saw at Uvalde, MORE corruption and incompetence. And of course - MORE CRIME because the Keystone Cops can't or won't do their jobs.

And the saddest part of all is that the very communities that are pushing the BLM/Defund the police the hardest are also the same ones that are the most impacted by crime. [Rant1]

[Seamonkey]

Grim updated assessment from the retired cop I linked to before.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/uvalde-updates

+1

May the screams of the dying ring in their ears for eternity

[Gman]

It seems to be turning out that the door was never locked and none of the responding officers ever tried opening it. [fail]

[00tec]

Uvalde PD is hiring. Step 1 should be to drop em and prove you have a set of balls
90745

[Little Dutch]

It just keeps getting worse the more that comes out. It turns out that the early reports of a complete screw-up are incredibly accurate. Must have been a fluke; the initial news reports are typically wildly inaccurate.

[Doc45]

Hope they get enough good job applicants to replace everyone that had anything to do with that tragedy.

[Ydennekb]

I've spent many summers in Uvalde, and my uncle is a Sherriff's deputy in the neighboring town within the same county. Corrupt does not even begin to describe Uvalde PD, this sorry response does not surprise me at all.

[BPTactical]

And because of this royal clusterfuck our rights get compromised.

Motherfuckers

[hollohas]

The school security footage is out if anyone feels like ending their day pissed. The cowardice and unprofessionalism is sicking. Over a dozen straight up run away. It's heart breaking to see some officers hold back others that want to do something.

[00tec]

The school security footage is out if anyone feels like ending their day pissed. The cowardice and unprofessionalism is sicking. Over a dozen straight up run away. It's heart breaking to see some officers hold back others that want to do something.

Jesus Christ dude. Appalling

The cunt getting hand sanitizer while kids bleed to death needs to hang himself.

[kidicarus13]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.

[BPTactical]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.



Really, really, really have to question this statement.
"Good men" would not allow children to be slain regardless of circumstance.

Those were not "Good men" in the hallways.


Every single one of them including their entire command structure need to suck start their service weapons.

[Mick-Boy]

Link to the ALERRT AAR. There is nothing redeeming in it for the officers present but there is some discussions on alternative breaching options for those not familiar with them.

https://alerrt.org/r/31

[TRnCO]

WTF, hand sanitizer? Of all the times a person is worried about using hand sanitizer.


I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Just WOW!!

[00tec]

These guys spent more time adjusting their larping gear more than anything. At one point, I counted 18 grenades on the floor. Either gas or flash, I can't tell. Dude was just arranging them on the floor

[hollohas]

WTF, hand sanitizer? Of all the times a person is worried about using hand sanitizer.


I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Just WOW!!Shows how brainwashed people have become over the last 2 years. Clearly that guy has more muscle memory getting hand sanitizer than he has doing actual police work.

[hollohas]

These guys spent more time adjusting their larping gear more than anything. At one point, I counted 18 grenades on the floor. Either gas or flash, I can't tell. Dude was just arranging them on the floorThe dude that SPRINTED away from the gunshots looked like his vest was literally falling off him.

All those ballistic shields came in real handy holding up the wall...

[TRnCO]

I just wonder how in the heck will all these "men" function in that little community now? How will they work? Live? Serve? without feeling like eyes are burning holes in them at every turn? I mean, does the community people just let them slide or will they hold them accountable in some way? I can't imagine a small community like that ever showing any respect for any of those guys from this point forward. I know if I lived down there and recognized any of them I'd probably at the very least flip em the bird at every chance I got.

[DDT951]

One thing I have heard about policing...

If you haven't done their job, you cannot comment on what they do because you don't have any idea what good or bad policing is.

Only current / previous police people have enough expertise and experience to explain to us if the officers were right or wrong.

[.455_Hunter]

One thing I have heard about policing...

If you haven't done their job, you cannot comment on what they do because you don't have any idea what good or bad policing is.

Only current / previous police people have enough expertise and experience to explain to us if the officers were right or wrong.


LOL!

[Great-Kazoo]

One thing I have heard about policing...

If you haven't done their job, you cannot comment on what they do because you don't have any idea what good or bad policing is.

Only current / previous police people have enough expertise and experience to explain to us if the officers were right or wrong.

Well knowing a lot of current & retired p.d. 99% of them are not supporting the UPD, on any of this.

[Jumpstart]

I just wonder how in the heck will all these "men" function in that little community now? How will they work? Live? Serve? without feeling like eyes are burning holes in them at every turn? I mean, does the community people just let them slide or will they hold them accountable in some way? I can't imagine a small community like that ever showing any respect for any of those guys from this point forward. I know if I lived down there and recognized any of them I'd probably at the very least flip em the bird at every chance I got.

[arbol]

All I see is officers backing up, when they have been previously instructed to engage.

-John

[Mick-Boy]

TX House of Representatives report is out.

https://www.house.texas.gov/_media/pdf/committees/reports/87interim/Robb-Elementary-Investigative-Committee-Report.pdf

[kidicarus13]

Body cam footage...
https://www.rawstory.com/uvalde-shooting-body-camera/

[Gman]

http://youtu.be/u_f6lvwVyfE