View Full Version : Pissing Off Putin.
colorider
12-21-2022, 15:12
Any thoughts on the Zelensky visit to the Whitehouse to collect his Patriot missiles and billions in $$$. I?m thinking it?s going to piss of Putin enough to fire off some mass destruction weapons into Ukraine. To ?defend his territory? as he has previously stated. My thought, big mistake having him come here to chat with Ol Joe. Especially on a U.S Military plane. Poking the bear as they say.
3beansalad
12-21-2022, 15:32
Maybe Zelensky had to drop off the 10% for the big guy in person? Every estimate I've seen says the US is far more invested in this war than the Russians... makes me wonder what is motivating this administration. Of course Ukraine good, Russia bad. No corruption to see here.
Who is going to train the Ukrainian troops to operate and maintain the patriot system? Any 14Ts shipping out soon? A Patriot battery can need as many as 90 troops to operate and maintain it.
15 DEC 22- Russian Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said in a weekly briefing Thursday that “the U.S. has effectively become a party” to the war in Ukraine.
Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but the original Hunter Biden laptop scandal, was not about him and hookers, but it was him selling access to "The Big Guy," to the Ukraine!
https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/
-John
My neighbor has a "Fuck Putin" bumper sticker.
Previously it was some sort of "Why do you elect Dumb People" an attack against Trump, I am sure.
Someone, or something, is demonizing people to the masses.
Never mind her personal financial situation. Never mind she has two young kids to raise.
The worst thing in her life today, is Putin. It used to be (probably still is) Trump.
-John
People wildly underestimate, misinterpret, and misunderstand Putin. Go back 20 years and listen/watch some of his speeches where he speaks about his foreign policy towards the U.S. & NATO. It is pretty easy to understand what he is after, and what he is not. If you get your news on Putin from anywhere else you?re going to have a skewed perspective.
Can you please summarize it, for the benefit of this forum?
-John
We don't need to poke the Russian bear, we need to decapitate it. The west will continue to eviscerate it's economy so it can't produce advanced weapons. Russia has a smaller economy than Italy. When Putin croaks, and that may be very soon, Russia will undergo a revolutionary change.
Backing off from support of Ukraine would be a monumental failure of global strategy.
No matter how much one would like to see the Hunter Biden and the big man scandal to play out, it won't happen any more than the Bill and Hillary scandals.
We don't need to poke the Russian bear, we need to decapitate it. The west will continue to eviscerate it's economy so it can't produce advanced weapons. Russia has a smaller economy than Italy. When Putin croaks, and that may be very soon, Russia will undergo a revolutionary change.
Backing off from support of Ukraine would be a monumental failure of global strategy.
No matter how much one would like to see the Hunter Biden and the big man scandal to play out, it won't happen any more than the Bill and Hillary scandals.
Why? What threat does Russia pose to you?
Can you please summarize it, for the benefit of this forum?
-John
No. It?s very easy to find and listen to some speeches.
Scanker19
12-22-2022, 07:55
Some? Could you be any more vague. You literally said listen and watch all of his speeches. You can’t cliff note it for us. But rather it’s easier to go back to December 22nd 2002 and beyond and just venture around hoping we find the exact one you’re talking about. Or worse draw severs conclusions from several, ostensibly, long winded speeches. Yeah super easy.
It would take 2-3 sentences to convey that information.
This is the dude equivalent of, ‘’ I’m having a bad day’’ What’s wrong? ‘’ I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT’’
92400
eddiememphis
12-22-2022, 09:19
If you get your news on Putin from anywhere else you're going to have a skewed perspective.
Regardless of a news source, the perspective is skewed.
Those that wish to make up their own minds on issues should read every possible source from all sides and draw their own conclusions.
Regarding Putin, no one can claim to understand his goals, nor that of any man. People, especially politicians, have a long history words and actions that do not reveal their true intentions. Often until it it too late.
His seemingly obvious goals are to resurrect the might Mother Russia had under the Soviet Union. His true aspirations are anyone's guess.
funkymonkey1111
12-22-2022, 10:17
No. It?s very easy to find and listen to some speeches.
so what you're saying is you're talking out of your ass. got it.
Personally, one of the smartest things to avoid Russia going the nuclear option is Patriot missle batteries.
As the war winds down and Russia loses, sure, we were looking at them doing a nuclear option, a tactical against Kiev or something, simply because Ukraine can't defend itself, and the international response would be weighted to avoid escalating into all out nuclear.
Now that there are patriots in play, it changes the balance.
What happens if Putin launches 5 nukes, and they are intercepted?
What happens if he launches 100 nukes?
Nukes are now starting to come off the f%$%ing table as an option.
Don't pay attention to what Russia said, step into Russia's shoes instead.
They can't launch 100 nukes or Russia would cease to exist. They can't even launch 5. At most, they were looking at using a tactical or two. Now the risk of those being intercepted changes the balance to where they risk serious retaliation and a loss-of-face if they attempt it, with no value added.
Install more patriots if anything...
And anyone who thinks Russia is not a risk to our lives, lives inside of a confined box. Undermining their economy and making them lose this war changes the balance of power even with China and will help to maintain the peace for possibly another couple decades. Russia also invests more in espionage than any other nation; suffice to say the effects of that run deep.
Ignore Russia, and we probably will have a world war in 6-10 years in which our prospects of prevailing would be quite low, and even if we did, there wouldn't be much to celebrate by the time the fires quenched and bodies were mass-buried. China... is watching.
Martinjmpr
12-22-2022, 14:25
I was pretty much against assisting Ukraine until it was pointed out to me that Ukraine surrendered its arsenal of nukes with the specific understanding that Ukraine would be protected from aggression.
Putin is a fool for many reasons but one of the reasons is that his actions have made it much more difficult to try and convince other states to give up their nukes and that's not good for the world.
I'm not in favor of starting Cold War II, since I already lived through the first one, but time and time again we've seen what happens when aggressive assholes in charge of countries are allowed to get away with invading their neighbors. It's not good.
Putin is good at talking tough (that seems to be the ONLY thing he's good at) but I doubt he has the stones to start actually throwing nukes at anybody. Even the most deranged dictator knows there are some lines you don't cross. For example, during WWII all combatants were in possession of chemical weapons but they were never used in combat because even madmen like Hitler and Stalin knew that was a Pandora's Box that they didn't want to open.
Some? Could you be any more vague. You literally said listen and watch all of his speeches. You can?t cliff note it for us. But rather it?s easier to go back to December 22nd 2002 and beyond and just venture around hoping we find the exact one you?re talking about. Or worse draw severs conclusions from several, ostensibly, long winded speeches. Yeah super easy.
It would take 2-3 sentences to convey that information.
This is the dude equivalent of, ?? I?m having a bad day?? What?s wrong? ?? I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT??
92400
You are right, I did write all, that would be very time consuming, I will be editing my initial post to say “some”.
I absolutely can cliff note it, I am choosing not too. I think it?s good for folks to look up stuff on their own, especially when it is a serious topic. My only point is you can look up what he has said, (and hope the translation is good), or rely on other sources to tell you what someone else said, someone else said.
Yes, people lie. Including politicians, translators, news media talking heads, journalists, and forum users. You can listen to people and make up your own mind on what they are saying.
It seems that for some reason you are upset that I am choosing not to summarize what I have heard the Man say, are you ok?
so what you're saying is you're talking out of your ass. got it.
Take what I wrote any way that you would like.
Regardless of a news source, the perspective is skewed.
Those that wish to make up their own minds on issues should read every possible source from all sides and draw their own conclusions.
Regarding Putin, no one can claim to understand his goals, nor that of any man. People, especially politicians, have a long history words and actions that do not reveal their true intentions. Often until it it too late.
His seemingly obvious goals are to resurrect the might Mother Russia had under the Soviet Union. His true aspirations are anyone's guess.
People lie. Including politicians, translators, think tanks, intelligence agency operatives, news media talking heads, journalists, and forum users. I prefer to listen to people and make up my own mind on what they are saying, judged against prior behavior, while trying to understand their history and squaring that with the various narratives being drawn up by their friends and enemies.
? For example, during WWII all combatants were in possession of chemical weapons but they were never used in combat because even madmen like Hitler and Stalin knew that was a Pandora's Box that they didn't want to open.
Well …..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/americas-mustard-gas-experiments-and-world-war-ii/
And many, many, many more stories, few discussing why the American Military sent that much Mustard Gas into the ETO/MTO.
Did anyone see Zelenskyy kiss Pelosi on the mouth?
They can't even launch 5. At most, they were looking at using a tactical or two. Now the risk of those being intercepted changes the balance to where they risk serious retaliation and a loss-of-face if they attempt it, with no value added.
Patriots were not designed to intercept tacnukes, which usually are fired from jets, artillery, or shoulder launched systems.
And the Patriots seem to have a poor track record... but 80% of the time they work.
Putin should’ve started his dirt nap a long time ago.
eddiememphis
12-25-2022, 09:09
Putin should?ve started his dirt nap a long time ago.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11572897/Putin-kept-alive-Western-cancer-drugs-continue-wage-war-Ukraine.html
He soon may be.
The medics have used the latest Western treatments to target his cancer, and stop its spread but he is likely now in his last year in power, a Russian expert told the Ukrainian media.
Despite this 'the end is already in sight, even according to the doctors who are curating this treatment, because no medication can be endlessly successful'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11572897/Putin-kept-alive-Western-cancer-drugs-continue-wage-war-Ukraine.html
He soon may be.
The medics have used the latest Western treatments to target his cancer, and stop its spread but he is likely now in his last year in power, a Russian expert told the Ukrainian media.
Despite this 'the end is already in sight, even according to the doctors who are curating this treatment, because no medication can be endlessly successful'.
I hope it's a slow and painful death, he deserves no better.
Martinjmpr
12-25-2022, 10:56
I hope it's a slow and painful death, he deserves no better.
He seems the type to take poison or suck-start a 9mm if he's facing death.
From Ukrainian media? Propaganda perhaps...
ruthabagah
12-26-2022, 20:11
He seems the type to take poison or suck-start a 9mm if he's facing death.
Nah. He is a coward. According to multiple sources, he was a mediocre KGB agent, sent to a non essential post in east Germany. Since he’s a midget, he was bullied at school and during his military service. He was a mediocre student, terrible at any sports and a lousy shot.
Imagine choosing a side in this War, and it is this guy.
92416
colorider
12-27-2022, 09:51
Just wait for the "Rebuild Ukraine" spending packages start!!!!!!!!!!!!! Biden is going to puke money in their direction. He and Zelensky go way back as we all know. Biden is his cash cow.
These few billions are NOT jumpstarting our economy quite like a few trillions would do.
We should ignore history, and just be isolationists and wait until superpowers have conquered dozens of nations such as they have in prior world wars, to really get our economy and baby boom started.
We shouldn't be helping the Ukrainians, it should be us out there, doing what we do, in a protracted war and dying instead. I'm offended that we're giving a penny to someone else when we could be blowing whole-ten-dollar bills in a few years fighting a global conflict between Russia, China, North Korea and potentially India and the western world if we just patiently wait for all the nations to be ready to fight a war on their terms. Imagine how much technology would progress, and our national debt would be easier to pay off with the resultant inflation. We might even learn new languages by the time it's all over! Sounds like a win-win to everybody!!!!
(not picking on anyone, just giving perspective....)
Imagine what World War II would've been if the allied powers prevented the Germans from successfully invading their first country...
Instead, the UK and France did what many conservatives argue now "Pff it's not our problem, the Germans will stop in Poland or whatever, they aren't directly attacking us, and I mean, who cares what we agreed to in the past, we should keep our penny".
These few billions are NOT jumpstarting our economy quite like a few trillions would do.
We should ignore history, and just be isolationists and wait until superpowers have conquered dozens of nations such as they have in prior world wars, to really get our economy and baby boom started.
We shouldn't be helping the Ukrainians, it should be us out there, doing what we do, in a protracted war and dying instead. I'm offended that we're giving a penny to someone else when we could be blowing whole-ten-dollar bills in a few years fighting a global conflict between Russia, China, North Korea and potentially India and the western world if we just patiently wait for all the nations to be ready to fight a war on their terms. Imagine how much technology would progress, and our national debt would be easier to pay off with the resultant inflation. We might even learn new languages by the time it's all over! Sounds like a win-win to everybody!!!!
(not picking on anyone, just giving perspective....)
Imagine what World War II would've been if the allied powers prevented the Germans from successfully invading their first country...
Instead, the UK and France did what many conservatives argue now "Pff it's not our problem, the Germans will stop in Poland or whatever, they aren't directly attacking us, and I mean, who cares what we agreed to in the past, we should keep our penny".
Imagine not starting a World War by doing literally everything possible to start and fuel another World War. We are repeating the follies of the Allies of WW2. I pray we have a different outcome this time around.
Martinjmpr
12-27-2022, 11:43
Imagine what World War II would've been if the allied powers prevented the Germans from successfully invading their first country...
Instead, the UK and France did what many conservatives argue now "Pff it's not our problem, the Germans will stop in Poland or whatever, they aren't directly attacking us, and I mean, who cares what we agreed to in the past, we should keep our penny".
I think it was Albert Speer or Von Ribbentrop who was interviewed after the war about Hitler's occupation of the Rhineland (which was a flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles.) When Hitler occupied the Rhineland in 1936, he was absolutely unprepared for war and France had the biggest, best equipped Army in Europe. According to either Speer or Von Ribbentrop, they asked Hitler what he would do if the French responded with military force (as the Versailles treaty allowed them to.)
Hitler's response was "Well, I'll shoot myself in the head, and you will offer our surrender."
Obviously, Hitler felt pretty confident that the French would not attack but imagine how different history would have been if they had.
I think it was Albert Speer or Von Ribbentrop who was interviewed after the war about Hitler's occupation of the Rhineland (which was a flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles.) When Hitler occupied the Rhineland in 1936, he was absolutely unprepared for war and France had the biggest, best equipped Army in Europe. According to either Speer or Von Ribbentrop, they asked Hitler what he would do if the French responded with military force (as the Versailles treaty allowed them to.)
Hitler's response was "Well, I'll shoot myself in the head, and you will offer our surrender."
Obviously, Hitler felt pretty confident that the French would not attack but imagine how different history would have been if they had.
Lesser known, yet very interesting facts, France invaded Germany before Germany returned the favor.
The Poles helped kick off WW2 as much as anyone else, by killing Germans living in Poland. For instance the massacres in Bromberg and other towns in 1939, (prior to the September invasion), where 58,000 German Men, Women, and Children were systematically murdered, 92420 924219242292423
Polish Army and/or Intelligence operatives further provoked a retaliatory response by attacking a German radio station just across the Polish/German border giving Germany all the official pretext necessary to invade Poland.
WW2 may never have started at all if the efforts of numerous ambassadors had not been rebuffed, instead Germany reacted excessively and the Soviets piled on making matters far, far worse for Poland. The Poles should?ve taken the dozens of better offers they received and refused to be led astray by the hyper militant Smigly-Rydz, (this guy for the uninitiated), 92418, who of course fled the country as soon as German boots were on Polish ground.
It is a tragedy that the Polish government refused to adhere to the principles of the late-great Marshal Pilsudski, who was a friend to Germany and would never have sanctioned or encouraged the excesses of the Smigly-Rydz government against Germany.
The folly of having alliances with foreign governments such as the ones Great Britain and France had with Poland, Germany had with Japan and Italy, and the United States has today through NATO, only serve to act as the trigger to allow what might otherwise be mutual combat between two neighboring States to turn into a global catastrophe.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-27-2022, 20:04
You have to be a special kind of silly or evil to think that the Poles were the reason that we had WWII. The Germans and Russians had already planned to take apart Poland. And Germany was what? Just going to sit in its borders?
ruthabagah
12-27-2022, 22:29
Lesser known, yet very interesting facts, France invaded Germany before Germany returned the favor.
The Poles helped kick off WW2 as much as anyone else, by killing Germans living in Poland. For instance the massacres in Bromberg and other towns in 1939, (prior to the September invasion), where 58,000 German Men, Women, and Children were systematically murdered,
Polish Army and/or Intelligence operatives further provoked a retaliatory response by attacking a German radio station just across the Polish/German border giving Germany all the official pretext necessary to invade Poland.
WW2 may never have started at all if the efforts of numerous ambassadors had not been rebuffed, instead Germany reacted excessively and the Soviets piled on making matters far, far worse for Poland. The Poles should?ve taken the dozens of better offers they received and refused to be led astray by the hyper militant Smigly-Rydz, (this guy for the uninitiated), , who of course fled the country as soon as German boots were on Polish ground.
It is a tragedy that the Polish government refused to adhere to the principles of the late-great Marshal Pilsudski, who was a friend to Germany and would never have sanctioned or encouraged the excesses of the Smigly-Rydz government against Germany.
The folly of having alliances with foreign governments such as the ones Great Britain and France had with Poland, Germany had with Japan and Italy, and the United States has today through NATO, only serve to act as the trigger to allow what might otherwise be mutual combat between two neighboring States to turn into a global catastrophe.
You know you are actually quoting nazi and Stalin propaganda that were debunked 70 year ago, right?
You know you are actually quoting nazi and Stalin propaganda that were debunked 70 year ago, right?
What part is not true?
You have to be a special kind of silly or evil to think that the Poles were the reason that we had WWII. The Germans and Russians had already planned to take apart Poland. And Germany was what? Just going to sit in its borders?
Not THE reason of course. There were numerous reasons, players/ actors. National pride and hegemony, territorial losses and gains, financial incentives etc.
Many competing political ideologies, Commies, Socialists, Nationalists, Facists, Democrats, Whigs etc.
And many Leaders from all ends of the world, Franco, Stalin, Kai-Shek, Hirohito, Tojo, FDR, Churchill, Hitler, Smigly-Rydz, Mussolini etc. There is not one singular person responsible for the war, it took many people to choose the paths they took to bring that disastrous conflict about. The groundwork was laid for WW2 in the WW1.
ruthabagah
12-28-2022, 03:42
What part is not true?
All of it. The Bromberg massacre for starter, was triggered once the war started by German saboteurs, and only a few hundreds civilians were caught in the crossfire. The number of 58.000, is a gross exaggeration, that was used as a casus belli by the nazis.
France did not occupy Germany in ww2 , unless you are referring to the Ruhr occupation in 1923-25’ often used by nazi sympathizer to justify their view. It was a non event, during a period of unrest in Germany.
bellavite1
12-28-2022, 05:24
We may never know the truth.
Almost 90 years have passed, and history is written by the winners...
Just look at what the left is trying to do with the cancel "culture".
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-28-2022, 11:37
We may never know the truth.
Almost 90 years have passed, and history is written by the winners...
Just look at what the left is trying to do with the cancel "culture".
Yeaaaaaaa, no not really. WWII, and especially 1935-41, was not as straightforward as the simple history, but the history is known. Explaining Italy is hard enough, Finland is more complex, and we gloss over whole Nazi-Stalin partitioning of Poland- which started the war against Germany, but not against the USSR.
It isn’t that the history isn’t known. It is, but it isn’t simple.
All of it. The Bromberg massacre for starter, was triggered once the war started by German saboteurs, and only a few hundreds civilians were caught in the crossfire. The number of 58.000, is a gross exaggeration, that was used as a casus belli by the nazis.
France did not occupy Germany in ww2 , unless you are referring to the Ruhr occupation in 1923-25? often used by nazi sympathizer to justify their view. It was a non event, during a period of unrest in Germany.
The 58,000 figure may not be accurate, it may have been more, it may have been less. Numbers in Bromberg alone fluctuate from around 300 to 5,500. There were killing?s happening in Danzig all throughout 1939. If you look at Polish sources, the numbers are lower and casually semi-justified or excused. If you look at German sources the death toll is higher, But it is well documented and not just invented propaganda that ethnic Germans living in what was one German territory, (until 1919), were killed by their Polish neighbors in Danzig, Silesia and other areas.
The French invasion I am referring to was the invasion of the Saarland starting on September 7th 1939.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/did-you-know-the-french-army-invaded-germany-in-1939.html
https://totallyhistory.com/saar-offensive/
Martinjmpr
12-28-2022, 16:25
You know you are actually quoting nazi and Stalin propaganda that were debunked 70 year ago, right?
So you're telling me Storm Front is not a reliable source for history? :rolleyes:
So you're telling me Storm Front is not a reliable source for history? :rolleyes:
"History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies and misfortunes of mankind."?
- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Author of: "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
eddiememphis
12-28-2022, 18:44
“History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston S. Churchill
We may never know the truth.
Almost 90 years have passed, and history is written by the winners...
Just look at what the left is trying to do with the cancel "culture".
I like the comedian quote that goes something along the lines of "isn't it just marvelous that it's always the good guys that win".
I like the comedian quote that goes something along the lines of "isn't it just marvelous that it's always the good guys that win".
"It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?? -Norm MacDonald. R.I.P.
BushMasterBoy
03-11-2023, 21:33
High tech wins everytime. Putin should have read the "Art of War". 20 men with AR's could have changed the outcome of the Alamo Battle. I look at the losses of the Rus forces and see the effectiveness of our weapons and tactics. All this and no US troop casualties. HMFIC
93234
JohnnyDrama
03-11-2023, 21:43
That's a butt-load of equipment. The number of drones is interesting. Does that include kamakazis?
ruthabagah
03-12-2023, 10:27
All this and no US troop casualties. HMFIC
Credit given. This ^^^ is worth every penny we send.
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