AR-15 Uppers

[Tweety Bird]

OK, I'm pretty new to the AR-15 platform but am not new to guns. Well, that's true, and then again, it ain't. I've been shooting for over 40 years but only recently (the last 2 years or so) have I been seriously learning more about guns and shooting, and our collection has grown quite a bit over this time. My wife and I each got a new Rock River AR this winter.

Hers is a carbine-length model with a fixed handle upper receiver half (I think that's the A2, right?) I guess hers would be the CAR-15, right? It has the 16" barrel and adjustable butt stock.

Mine is the rifle-length model with a flat top upper (A3 ??? - These A1/A2/A3 designations have me dazed and confused) and fixed stock. Mine also has a detachable handle/rear sight, and the standard fixed front sight mount.

Anyhow, here's the deal.

She'd like to put a red-dot or other optics on hers, but I just don't like the idea of affixing an optical device to the top of the handle.

I figure I'll probably never use more than the iron sights, which means that I'd be OK with the fixed handle upper. But one never knows about the future.

So, I've considered swapping her upper for mine. That would mean removing the barrels, of course, but after that, the swap seems to me like it would be fairly straightforward. But it means distrubing the barrel on BOTH guns.

I've also considered buying a stripped upper to replace hers; that would get her what she wants, while keeping options open for mine in the future. This is the option I'm leaning toward.

Any recommendations for and against this idea? Any recommendations on whose upper to get? I've seen them for $70 to over $150. I won't say money is the only issue but it certainly comes in toward the top of the list, so I'd like to avoid buying a $500 upper with a barrel/foregrip/gas block and tube because her barrel, so far, only has about 35 rounds through it.

I'm an airline mechanic by training so mechanical things don't bother me. I assume I'd also need some sort of spanner wrench to remove the barrel, correct?

Like I said, new to the AR scene but projects like this is one way for me to learn.

[espos1111]

She'd like to put a red-dot or other optics on hers, but I just don't like the idea of affixing an optical device to the top of the handle.


IMHO, Why not? It works well, an ACOG type is great. I no longer have this scope on it, I just bought that cheap one to see how I like a scope on the carry handle. I now have a Nikon on it. I like it very much. You are not looking much higher than iron sights and you still have a cheek weld. You could go with a red dot the same way, it would be much smaller. I'd buy a inexpensive one to see how it works for her. If it doesn't work for her, you can mount it on yours ;) Primary Arms makes some highly rated clones that are inexpensive. I wouldn't change out the upper on a new RRA. Why mess with a lifetime warranty? If nothing else have RRA change it out for you. There are also get some really inexpensive uppers out there now a days, closer to the $350 range.
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/espos1111/stock002.jpg?t=1300061146

[Tweety Bird]

I picked one up at the gun show yesterday and absolutely couldn't keep my cheek on the stock to look through the scope. Maybe it was set up differently than yours but I didn't like it. Of course, Lisa will have to make the final decision on what she likes or not.

[espos1111]

Sorry about that, I guess it doesn't have as much of a cheek rest as some people might like. It is very comfortable for me, but I shoot prone with a bipod. A complete A4 upper is only $145 from RRA, keeping the rifle original. One last idea, they make butt stocks with adjustable cheek rests.

[espos1111]

Found this on ARFCOM thought it pertained to this thread.

"All that is needed is some form of cheek riser or a stock with an adjustable cheek piece. Holds for shooting close range can be a bit funky compared to a lower mounted scope, but it's not a big deal."
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Ricky_a_photos/IMG_1992.jpg

Link to ARFCOM thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=530684&page=1

[legaleagle]

Tweety Bird - I have done this conversion several times from the fixed handle A2 to the flatop A3. I purchased a stag arms flaptop upper receiver A3 and then swapped it out. If you are interested, and since we are in the same neck of the woods, I have the armorers wrench for the barell nut. It is relatively simple to do. The one thing you will have to remove is the gas tube. This is usually pretty simple. When I've done it I removed the front sight as a quad rail was also being installed.

Also, I have a rail mount that attaches the handle and extends down and then out over the handguards. You are welcome to try it. I do not care for it as I prefer the flaptop upper A3 style.

[VinceU1]

If she's wanting a red dot type sight, why not use a goose neck mount for the carry handle? This would put the iron sights visible through the RDS, which is helpful if the RDS quits working. You can find a bunch of them for betw$25 and $100, depending on which one you've got. I've got a ARMS 39A2 that I'll let you try if you want. It's one of the most expensive goose necks available, but it's a very solid mount as it screws through the hole in the carry handle and has a retainer that clamps around the front of the carry handle. IM me if you want to meet, I usually get to shoot out at the AGC and will be at the IPSC match the 4th Saturday of this month.
VinceU1

[Tweety Bird]

Tweety Bird - I have done this conversion several times from the fixed handle A2 to the flatop A3. I purchased a stag arms flaptop upper receiver A3 and then swapped it out. If you are interested, and since we are in the same neck of the woods, I have the armorers wrench for the barell nut. It is relatively simple to do. The one thing you will have to remove is the gas tube. This is usually pretty simple. When I've done it I removed the front sight as a quad rail was also being installed.

Also, I have a rail mount that attaches the handle and extends down and then out over the handguards. You are welcome to try it. I do not care for it as I prefer the flaptop upper A3 style.

Hey, thanks. I just might take you up on the offer to use that wrench. We have the DVD that AGI puts out for the AR15 and none of it looks terribly complicated.

I drive through Kiowa every day (at least when I'm going to the office but I'm on a work-at-home project right now - WOO-HOO!) But since we're close, I don't mind making the drive specifically to get together. Maybe when we set a time for Patty Ann's?? Can't be this Saturday as Lisa and I have a pistol class to do in COS but Sunday is open and the next weekend is (as far as I know) also free.


If she's wanting a red dot type sight, why not use a goose neck mount for the carry handle? This would put the iron sights visible through the RDS, which is helpful if the RDS quits working. You can find a bunch of them for betw$25 and $100, depending on which one you've got. I've got a ARMS 39A2 that I'll let you try if you want. It's one of the most expensive goose necks available, but it's a very solid mount as it screws through the hole in the carry handle and has a retainer that clamps around the front of the carry handle. IM me if you want to meet, I usually get to shoot out at the AGC and will be at the IPSC match the 4th Saturday of this month.
VinceU1

Vince, thanks. We might consider something like that but I still think that putting a flattop upper on hers is the way we're eventually going to go. I'll run the idea past her. She acts like it's no big deal but I know better.

[Tweety Bird]

Thanks to LegalEagle, the job is done. He loaned me the wrench I needed and the job was very simple. I decided to just swap the uppers because I'm fine with the open sights. That might change sometime in the future but now that I know how easy the job of swapping the uppers is, I won't hesitate to do it again if I decide I want a flattop on mine again.

Most importantly, the wife's happy.
[Beer]

[espos1111]

Cool. I'm glad it worked out without buying a new upper. Cheers.
[Beer]
EDIT: Don't forget to swap the corresponding bolt with the barrel when/if you change back.

[Tweety Bird]

. . . Don't forget to swap the corresponding bolt with the barrel when/if you change back.

I know you don't know me from Adam, and I did say I'm new to the AR platform. But at the risk of sounding like a smartass (not my intent), I gotta say that's a pretty common-sense thing, in my opinion.

So, no worries. I'm a fairly smart guy and know enough to keep the bolt assembly paired with the barrel extension. In the end, all I did was swap the sheetmetal with the ejection port cover and forward assist (didn't take them off the uppers, for obvious reasons). All the internals remain the same on both guns.

[Great-Kazoo]

if you choose to use a different bolt carrier assy, always check head space. you might be surprised how many different bolt assy's will fit correctly your bbl with good HS. YMMV

[legaleagle]

Jim - I am always surprised at the different bolt nad barel combo. It has worked every time. COnsidering the military measures to field on the HS, it would be difficult to find a bad combo, absent lots of use and wear.

Tweety - glad the wrench worked. Kinda like wrenching on an airplane, just alot cheaper than the annual inspection. THe other good news is you don't have the FAA doing your physical for a firearm. LOL.

[Tweety Bird]

. . .Tweety - glad the wrench worked. Kinda like wrenching on an airplane, just alot cheaper than the annual inspection. THe other good news is you don't have the FAA doing your physical for a firearm. LOL.

Andy, that's true enough, but there seem to be plenty of people warning me about the BCG. I keep trying to calm their concerns, but every time I write a response, I delete it and back out because again, I don't want to sound like a smartass when I write what I'm actually thinking.

BUT CALM DOWN, PEOPLE. I DIDN'T MIX UP THE BOLT CARRIER GROUPS! I am actually smarter than that. Even if it turnes out that it makes no difference, I wouldn't mix them up anyway, in the name of good maintenance practice if nothing else.

[Rant1]

Sunday was a day of accomplishments. We got to have breakfast with you and your family; I got the front brakes and a leaky tire fixed on the War Wagon (that blue beater commuter car you saw us in - the one with the RAY WELLS BLOWS sticker in the rear window), and I got this work done on the ARs.

It truly was a simple job, took less than an hour. The hardest part was finding something to use in my vise so I didn't mar the barrels. An old leather glove fit the bill nicely. The gas tubes came out easily, getting the barrel nut tight and lined up for the gas tube was simple, and I didn't even lose those itty-bitty little roll pins from the FSMs!

It was actually much easier than many jobs I've done on airplanes. Replacing the auto speedbrake actuator on a 737 comes immediately to mind. Another would be replacing the keel beam overheat detector element, also on the 737. Or, changing the switch that places the DC-10 pressurization system in the manual mode. I think Douglas dangled that thing on a string and built the rest of the airplane around it. And until just now, I'd forgotten about that clockspring wire on the Convair 340 flaps drive. <UGH>

And now that I'm in the training side of the business, it could be said that ANYTHING is easier than Adult Education!

[espos1111]

I know you don't know me from Adam, and I did say I'm new to the AR platform. But at the risk of sounding like a smartass (not my intent), I gotta say that's a pretty common-sense thing, in my opinion.

So, no worries. I'm a fairly smart guy and know enough to keep the bolt assembly paired with the barrel extension. In the end, all I did was swap the sheetmetal with the ejection port cover and forward assist (didn't take them off the uppers, for obvious reasons). All the internals remain the same on both guns.

A lot of new people look to these threads as a place for help/trouble shooting. That statement was more for them than you.

[Tweety Bird]

A lot of new people look to these threads as a place for help/trouble shooting. That statement was more for them than you.
Well, I suspected that, but wish you'd actually said so, because they didn't read that way. Anyhow, that's the reason I've written, then decided not to post some of the sarcastic replies I've been tempted to put here.

[espos1111]

Well, I suspected that, but wish you'd actually said so, because they didn't read that way. Anyhow, that's the reason I've written, then decided not to post some of the sarcastic replies I've been tempted to put here.

In the first part of the post I said cool and cheers. Why would I then go on to insult you. And like you said I also do not know you from adam so telling us you are an airplane mechanic does not tell me what your knowledge base is. I know doctors that can remove your heart but can't change a car battery. It was just a friendly reminder for some nubees. I'm sure out there somewhere is somebody that didn't know about the bolt/extension mating. It doesn't always cause problems, but I have seen problems after somebody puts in a new bolt. Just to be clear: that statment was not meant for you:) So no hard feelings here.