We need to organize an open carry day in Loveland and surrounding towns

[colocowboy01]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/27220674/detail.html

This is a news story about a guy who was stopped and temporarily had his firearm and ammunition taken from him in a park in Loveland. I think we all in the Northern Colorado area need to organize a reoccurring open carry day in Loveland. It could be educational for the public and empowering for those gun owning friends of ours would have never open carried.

I thought it was funny that the news article stated that, "Miller accused police of violating his constitutional right to be armed with a licensed gun and conducting an illegal search and seizure." Where in the Constitution, U.S. or Colorado, or Colorado state law does it say one must license a firearm? Once again the media is full of misinformation.

[cstone]

I am not one of Loveland's tax paying residents, however, if I were a tax paying resident of Loveland I would be concerned that my tax money was spent on paying off another citizen because the police may or may not have violated his rights. I'm happy to hear that Loveland police officers will receive additional training on 2nd and 4th Amendment issues.

As for organizing a public open carry demonstration (informal of course) in Loveland; could someone just contact the Loveland City Attorney's Office and ask them to send me $7500 and I will stipulate to the fact that I could have openly carried in a Loveland park, and Loveland police officers could have come and taken my gun, and we could just avoid the actual encounter for half the cost.

Just sayin. [Stooge]

[Mazin]

Can I get in on that, could use the money for the barret I have always wanted [Tooth]

[Byte Stryke]

Could pay off a bill or two...

I am in, but I want 10K, I will go 2/3s.
This way I get exactly what the first guy got without paying a lawyer :)

[Byte Stryke]

Thanks for pointing out the “licensing” error, I’ll correct it.
Alan Gathright
7NEWS - Content Producer
KMGH-TV - AZTECA AMERICA-COLORADO
123 East Speer Boulevard - Denver, Colorado 80203-3417
Direct: 303-832-0179 (tel:303-832-0179) | Mobile: 303-815-9936 (tel:303-815-9936) | Fax: 303-832-0119 (tel:303-832-0119)













Now if we could get the government to reply like this.

[Mazin]

LMAO Nice!

[colocowboy01]

Now if we could get the government to reply like this.

Hey Byte Stryke, did you get a hold of Alan Gathright and inform him about the license issue? I never thought about doing that but every time I see it in the news I will bug them about it now.

[colocowboy01]

There are several of the guys at work who are interested in making this happen in the next couple of weekends. How about April 2, 2011 as many guys who can show up and open carry all meet at a park in Loveland and meet some new people from this forum and others who are interested in guns?

It was funny to me that a few of the guys at work said, "I'll have to get a holster for my pistol before then." I thought it is kind of funny that people would have a tool and not have a way of taking it with them.

[M2]

[Elhuero]

say hi to the swat guys for me

[colocowboy01]

say hi to the swat guys for me

Will do. Why would they be there, we are not doing anything unlawful?

[Irving]

Isn't it pretty much normal for the police to temporarily take your gun when you are in contact with police?

[Byte Stryke]

Isn't it pretty much normal for the police to temporarily take your gun when you are in contact with police?


I honestly think it points more to WHY he was having contact with the police.

you never hear of someone being stopped for carrying a 12 pack of beer
Both are equally Legal and the first is constitutionally protected.

Call Loveland PD and tell them you need an officer to respond to a "Man with Tomato" Call...
[ROFL1]

[colocowboy01]

Isn't it pretty much normal for the police to temporarily take your gun when you are in contact with police?

I have never had mine taken from me. Shouldn't we do everything we can to change that?

[Irving]

I guess I didn't have mine taken from me the one time I open carried. That was an off duty officer that approached me though. I've only really had my guns taken during a traffic stop (DUI Check point).

[BigMat]

I have only had contact with an officer once while armed, and in that case he spent about half an hour shooting with me. Guy ate up a bunch of ammo.

He was responding to a "shots fired" type call and wanted to make sure we were in the right spot. I always carry a map of where it's safe to shoot with me when I'm off the beaten path. Generally printed off of a forest service site. He said I was good and asked how I liked my AR. I let him shoot it, and it seemed like he liked it, a lot.

[Elhuero]

I love the open carry movement, I'm just not mentally prepared to join it yet.

if I was carrying openly, legally, and an officer wanted to disarm me "for their safety" I would refuse, and then there would be problems.

[johngraves2]

Isn't it pretty much normal for the police to temporarily take your gun when you are in contact with police?

I belive it depends on state law. I know some states you have to tell the cop imediately you have a firearm on you or in your car, like when they say "hows it going" you say "good, i must tell you i have a firearm" and where it is located, even if you have a permit and everything. in CO we dont have to do that though, but i was told they appriciate the heads up.

So i could be wrong but if it is on your person or within your reach some state cops will "secure it" while they talk with you.

If i were to get pulled over I would tell them first i have a permit, and second where the firearm is located, usually in the back in their case so not an issue. I only do it as a show of respect that "hey im not here to scare you or threaten you, i follow the law and have nothing to hide." But that is just me.

If i lived closer to loveland i would join, ill be there in sprit though. Although i would image if word gets out that a lot of people will be there, the cops will show up. obviously gun owners such as people on this site are responsible, but the general plubic doesn't know that.


edit: here is a site that shows in which states you must inform the cop if you have a firearm on you: http://handgunlaw.us/

[colocowboy01]

John, Great link about the laws.

[colocowboy01]

Elhuero, I completely understand where you are coming from. This is why I want to get a reoccurring "open carry day" going, so more people will be educated about the/their right to open carry, and will not freak out when they see people with guns. The media has conditioned the masses to fear those who are carrying guns, we need to recondition them to understand and realize their fear is unfounded.

[Irving]

If i were to get pulled over I would tell them first i have a permit, and second where the firearm is located, usually in the back in their case so not an issue. I only do it as a show of respect that "hey im not here to scare you or threaten you, i follow the law and have nothing to hide." But that is just me.



Just hand them your CCW with your license. That's what I do. Blowing him/her a kiss is optional though.

[johngraves2]

Just hand them your CCW with your license. That's what I do. Blowing him/her a kiss is optional though.

Ya that is probably a good way to do it.

Also my cop buddy told me that when they run your name and everything, and you have a CCW, a hit will come up on your name, but it doesn't say what it is for or anything so they usually have to look at other things to see it is for the CCW.

[rondog]

Is it my imagination? It seems to me like whenever an open carry thread comes around, the LEO members are usually silent. Maybe I just don't know who they all are.

But, how about it? There's a lot of current/former LEO's on this board, how do you guys feel about OC, and how would/do you approach/deal with people you encounter OC'ing?

I have a CWP so I prefer to CCW, but I think OC is a wonderful thing. I very rarely see anyone doing it, and I won't do it myself because I'm scared to death of the legal hassles and expenses. I'm the guy that you'd read about in the paper that some cop clubbed or shot half to death because "he had a gun". Even though I'm just a fat, gray bearded old man now, that's just my luck, and I'd rather not risk it.

But I'd really love to hear the LEO view of the subject to know if my fears are unfounded or not.

[Elhuero]

Is it my imagination? It seems to me like whenever an open carry thread comes around, the LEO members are usually silent. Maybe I just don't know who they all are.

But, how about it? There's a lot of current/former LEO's on this board, how do you guys feel about OC, and how would/do you approach/deal with people you encounter OC'ing?

I have a CWP so I prefer to CCW, but I think OC is a wonderful thing. I very rarely see anyone doing it, and I won't do it myself because I'm scared to death of the legal hassles and expenses. I'm the guy that you'd read about in the paper that some cop clubbed or shot half to death because "he had a gun". Even though I'm just a fat, gray bearded old man now, that's just my luck, and I'd rather not risk it.

But I'd really love to hear the LEO view of the subject to know if my fears are unfounded or not.

[insert anti cop rant here]

[rondog]

[insert anti cop rant here]

No no no, I'm not anti-cop, not in the least. I'd just like to hear their viewpoint on the subject. They're the ones that have to deal with the calls.

[colocowboy01]

[insert anti cop rant here]

Why do most people who accept the status quo want to paint those of us who do not as haters?

My twin brother is a police officer, so I can assure you that I am not a cop hater. I just think that we should be able to show up armed anywhere we are going without living in fear.

Rondog, my brother is for the open carry day and is going to be there if he does not have to work.

[ldmaster]

WHY does a cop disarm a citizen during a contact? Because the law says he can. The supremes have ruled more than once that a peace officer "must be in control" during a contact or stop. The charge if someone refuses will be "obstruction of a peace officer in the performance of his/her duties" depending on jurisdiction. Alternatively, being charged with disturbing the peace (acting in a manner which tends to alarm) again, depending on jurisdiction and the wording of their ordinances.

Failure to obey a peace officer, who has given you a lawful order, has been adjudicated time and time again as obstruction. A citizen calls and the peace officer answers the call of an "armed man". What do you expect a cop to do?

"Uh, hey, you can keep your gun - even though I know with the reactionary gap you can draw and fire on me before I could respond..."

or

"I need you to turn away from me and interlock your hands over your head, I'm going to take your firearm away from you and search you for other weapons"

You REALLY expect a cop to NOT disarm you? He has to do his duty, but, again, the law has stated again and again that he is not obligated to place him/herself in danger to ANY degree, if it can be safely avoided. What a cop does then is what matters, returning the gun after the check with the explanation as to why they had to disarm a citizen would be ideal.

That being said, it might behoove those doing this to call the local PD, or drop by and explain what you are doing that day - a civil gathering in order to exercise your constitutional rights and make a statement about it. Unless you're TRYING to make a scene.

It's about preserving public peace and safety, you are either part of the solution (and thus informing the PD of your purpose that day) or you are trying to create a problem and the BEST you can expect is to be disarmed while you get yourself run on NCIC.

I open carry all the time, really, I do - never had a problem. Occasionally someone comments, and I tell them about it. Never had a problem with a cop either. But I know it can happen.

His "probable cause"? He/she (apologies to sister officers) doesn't need probable cause in order to "freeze" a situation to determine if a crime has been committed, and if a cop can articulate WHY you get a Terry frisk, he's covered. Pretty easy to articulate that you saw a gun, and stopped to determine if the person was a threat to safety. Or do you think a cop wouldn't get called up before his supervisor if a citizen said he just drove my a group of armed men without doing ANYTHING?

I think open carry demonstrations serve a very valid purpose, it trains the police department about the law and it's application to a citizen, but it shouldn't be something done in order to try and create a confrontation.

[Elhuero]

No no no, I'm not anti-cop, not in the least. I'd just like to hear their viewpoint on the subject. They're the ones that have to deal with the calls.


sorry, my post could have been clearer.

I'm agreeing with you. my reply would have been something that would probably have elicited a "you're just anti cop"

so instead of ranting, I just put in the usual [your ad here] disclaimer.

[Elhuero]

WHY does a cop disarm a citizen during a contact? Because the law says he can. The supremes have ruled more than once that a peace officer "must be in control" during a contact or stop. The charge if someone refuses will be "obstruction of a peace officer in the performance of his/her duties" depending on jurisdiction. Alternatively, being charged with disturbing the peace (acting in a manner which tends to alarm) again, depending on jurisdiction and the wording of their ordinances.

Failure to obey a peace officer, who has given you a lawful order, has been adjudicated time and time again as obstruction. A citizen calls and the peace officer answers the call of an "armed man". What do you expect a cop to do?

"Uh, hey, you can keep your gun - even though I know with the reactionary gap you can draw and fire on me before I could respond..."

or

"I need you to turn away from me and interlock your hands over your head, I'm going to take your firearm away from you and search you for other weapons"

You REALLY expect a cop to NOT disarm you? He has to do his duty, but, again, the law has stated again and again that he is not obligated to place him/herself in danger to ANY degree, if it can be safely avoided. What a cop does then is what matters, returning the gun after the check with the explanation as to why they had to disarm a citizen would be ideal.

That being said, it might behoove those doing this to call the local PD, or drop by and explain what you are doing that day - a civil gathering in order to exercise your constitutional rights and make a statement about it. Unless you're TRYING to make a scene.

It's about preserving public peace and safety, you are either part of the solution (and thus informing the PD of your purpose that day) or you are trying to create a problem and the BEST you can expect is to be disarmed while you get yourself run on NCIC.

I open carry all the time, really, I do - never had a problem. Occasionally someone comments, and I tell them about it. Never had a problem with a cop either. But I know it can happen.

His "probable cause"? He/she (apologies to sister officers) doesn't need probable cause in order to "freeze" a situation to determine if a crime has been committed, and if a cop can articulate WHY you get a Terry frisk, he's covered. Pretty easy to articulate that you saw a gun, and stopped to determine if the person was a threat to safety. Or do you think a cop wouldn't get called up before his supervisor if a citizen said he just drove my a group of armed men without doing ANYTHING?

I think open carry demonstrations serve a very valid purpose, it trains the police department about the law and it's application to a citizen, but it shouldn't be something done in order to try and create a confrontation.


you're right as well.


which is why I don't open carry.

[Byte Stryke]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Unless you are being stopped at a traffic stop, The State decided you must have pot in the car because you are wearing a jean jacket and long hair or you have Pro-Gun Bumper-stickers on your truck


[Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

[ZOMBIEMASTER223]

I am not one of Loveland's tax paying residents, however, if I were a tax paying resident of Loveland I would be concerned that my tax money was spent on paying off another citizen because the police may or may not have violated his rights

YOU REALLY ARENT VERY INFORMED OR INTELLIGENT ABOUT HOW THE BUSINESS WORLD WORKS ARE YOU...[Bang]

BUSINESS'S AND GOVT'S DO NOT PAY SETTLEMENTS OUT OF THEIR TAXPAYERS POCKET, THEY CARRY ERRORS AND OMISSIONS AND JUDGMENT INSURANCES, THE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE SETTLEMENT OR JUDGEMENT, ..... NOT THE TAXPAYERS...[LOL]

[ZOMBIEMASTER223]

I Dont Live There, But It Needs To Be Done, To Show Them Whats Right...and It Wasnt Them , They Will Probably Have The Swat Team Join You For Coffee... I Hear Loveland Pd Are Complete Jackasses...

Perhaps You Should Have A Few Gun Totin Attorneys There With Ya...just In Case...

[colocowboy01]

I Dont Live There, But It Needs To Be Done, To Show Them Whats Right...and It Wasnt Them , They Will Probably Have The Swat Team Join You For Coffee... I Hear Loveland Pd Are Complete Jackasses...

Perhaps You Should Have A Few Gun Totin Attorneys There With Ya...just In Case...

Are there any gun toting attorneys that anyone knows of that would be will to join us?

I have been reading the Loveland city ordinances and so far have not found anything that states that individuals can not carry a firearm in a park or with city limits. Since I am not an organization or individual holding a rally, merely seeking a chance for people to meet with one another who have a common interest, I do not think that I have to apply for a permit(stupid concept anyway, "Dear Mr. Overload of the City may I gather together with friends on land that I have paid taxes to help fund"). Does anyone know if I would need to apply for a permit to have a friendly get together in the park?

[Byte Stryke]

YOU REALLY ARENT VERY INFORMED OR INTELLIGENT ABOUT HOW THE BUSINESS WORLD WORKS ARE YOU...[Bang]

BUSINESS'S AND GOVT'S DO NOT PAY SETTLEMENTS OUT OF THEIR TAXPAYERS POCKET, THEY CARRY ERRORS AND OMISSIONS AND JUDGMENT INSURANCES, THE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE SETTLEMENT OR JUDGEMENT, ..... NOT THE TAXPAYERS...[LOL]

as with any insurance underwriter, risk is directly translated to cost.

breaking it down simple, The more your insurance has to pay out (Judgments), the more you have to pay in premiums (Taxpayer).

so if your City PD is running a string of civil liberty abuses and has $millions every month in judgments against them, I can guarantee your premiums are going through the roof, as well as your budget.

You are corrected.
:D

[ldmaster]

LE doesn't post here because of the not-so-recent policy changes adopted by most departments... That is, if you DO post in a public forum, you cannot identify yourself or in any way indicate which agency you work for. There have been a few guys zapped for using an alias (Douglas Cnty) and NOT identifying themselves as working for a particular agency, only to have some asshat citizen whine to a particular news organization (9News) that posted the comments, then 9News violated the anonymity of the cops login ID and outed him as working for Douglas Cnty. In his case he didn't use his real name or indicate his agency, but some f**ktard news whore decided he was going to mess with the guy's job.

It's not unusual. Frankly I used to get all kinds of flak from people who might learn that I worked for LE, they ask me "Where" and I politely decline to tell them. People out in the world will call into your department and make all kinds of claims about your conduct in the world when you are off-duty. All they think they need to know is your name and your agency. The agency MUST investigate the validity of the claim. I've gotten called a lot of names (mostly by women) when I would refuse to say where I worked.

We get stalked unknowningly every time someone knows what we do for a living. So most just dont say anything aside from "I work for the city".

And posting here as an active LEO? You really think some cop is going to risk his job by POTENTIALLY saying something his/her command staff disagrees with? They don't have to have a reason to mess with you, they can/will/do mess with you for a "potential" problem.

So LE's here might not ever render an absolutely honest opinion, and if you know someone on here who IS LE and you consider them a friend, you'd be doing them a favor by not mentioning that they post here under any name.

And finally (yeah, most of you know I'm long winded) it is all too common that someone wants to jump all over your opinion, simply because they got too many DUI's or have some beef with LE - so why bother with all that hassle from any forum members when you can just be quiet?

[glockedandloaded]

we need to do this before it gets too cold

[colocowboy01]

I will start working on getting this together for a weekend probably after Labor day.

[JackImpact]

Id be in on this. We do it in Florida. Its a huge deal. Everyone gets together to go Fishing since technically you need to be going to/from fishing or hunting to open carry in Florida.