Minnesota government shutdown begins after talks fail.

[colocowboy01]

http://news.yahoo.com/minnesota-government-shutdown-near-talks-fail-040624788.html



This is what needs to start happening at the federal level. But, the agencies that should be shutdown first are the ones that redistribute the wealth to others. Theft is not a viable form of government, and it is not in the Constitution(the guidelines for the government) anywhere. After those agencies are shutdown we can start going after the rest of them.[Rant1]

[soco11]

We have a place in Minnesota, land of ten thousand taxes. I can tell you that no tax payer will miss the government there. But the problem is, in that land of the ultimate nanny government, that there are so many people on the public dole, as government has expanded to become everything to everyone, that they constitute a huge voting bloc of the citizenry now. They will miss their entitlements, that's for sure! And they will make the republicans pay for missing their checks for a week or two. The battle is, unfortunately, lost in Minnesota already.

[Bailey Guns]

I keep hearing from the democrat leadership(?) that the rich need to pay a little more than their fair share to help us out of this financial mess we're in (on a national level...but it probably applies to MN as well).

Well my question to democrats is, "Why?"

Why do I continue to hear Harry Reid and others tell me and the entire country that we need to raise taxes on the rich (or anyone else for that matter) to help us out of this financial disaster? How is it that the "rich" folks got us into this mess?

It was politicians of both parties that got us into this mess. It wasn't the poor, the middle class or the rich. It's not the fault of the "people", regardless of their means, that we're in this mess. It was the house and senate and president's fault.

They all were complicit in creating/supporting/signing the programs that recklessly spent our money and brought us to the brink of bankruptcy. Why the fuck are we not telling them "no more money!"? They're all guilty of malfeasance and we're doing nothing to hold them accountable.

Politicians really piss me off. Democrats make me absolutely homicidal.

[Byte Stryke]

ya know... I don't have a PHD in economics, I am by no means a political science major and I have never held a public office. But I honestly don't believe it takes any of that to get us out of this mess, as a matter of fact I think its the over-complication of all of this that got us here.

If you dont have it, dont spend it!

Who in the fuck decided "deficit spending" was OK?

"Hey Honey, I was just laid off and have no foreseeable employment, Lets go buy a car!"
[Rant1][Bang]


It's high time to tighten the belt and trim the fat, I suggest we start at the top.

[Jumpstart]

http://news.yahoo.com/minnesota-government-shutdown-near-talks-fail-040624788.html



This is what needs to start happening at the federal level. But, the agencies that should be shutdown first are the ones that redistribute the wealth to others. Theft is not a viable form of government, and it is not in the Constitution(the guidelines for the government) anywhere. After those agencies are shutdown we can start going after the rest of them.[Rant1]





I concur.

[Hoosier]

This is the bit that's fucked up:

http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/webfeatures/snapshots/archive/2008/0618/Snapshot_chart_750.jpg

I'm certain no one on this forum is in the top 0.1% of income earners, and likely no one here has ever even known anyone in that group. The people at the very top, the people who buy influence in Washington, have been able to milk the system to the detriment of everyone else. In lieu of any better way to prevent them from being able to game the system, I think raising taxes is entirely fair. They did not go from being hundred-millionaires to billionaires on the back of their hard work or creativity. The idea that these people are the "job makers" has been proven wrong. They are the people who made billions betting against the US economy in 2007, the people who ship your jobs over seas where they make an extra thirty cents a share. These are not your idols.

If this graph had been staying consistent over time, I would be opposed to changes.

H.

[soco11]

The funny thing is that the governor of Minnesota, Mark Dayton, comes from the Dayton inheritance family--he is among the millionaires, so he claims that gives him the position to demand taxation for millionaires. However the St Paul paper pointed out a few weeks ago that Dayton shelters all his income in some north dakota trust funds to keep them from being taxed at Minnesota rates. Funny how that works.

[Bailey Guns]

Hoosier, that graph is all fine and dandy. It doesn't change the fact that we're in this mess due to overspending on the part of our elected officials.

We're not 14 trillion dollars in debt because people made money in the stock market.

It's like me spending way more money than I should and then writing checks on your account to pay my bills.

There is absolutely no rational justification for raising taxes on anyone.

Politicians need to STOP spending money we don't have.

And companies send their jobs overseas because the business environment in this country is too hostile with the unnecessary regulation and high tax rates. I don't like it but I sure as hell don't blame them

[colocowboy01]

Why do I continue to hear Harry Reid and others tell me and the entire country that we need to raise taxes on the rich (or anyone else for that matter) to help us out of this financial disaster? How is it that the "rich" folks got us into this mess?

It was politicians of both parties that got us into this mess. It wasn't the poor, the middle class or the rich. It's not the fault of the "people", regardless of their means, that we're in this mess. It was the house and senate and president's fault.

They all were complicit in creating/supporting/signing the programs that recklessly spent our money and brought us to the brink of bankruptcy. Why the fuck are we not telling them "no more money!"? They're all guilty of malfeasance and we're doing nothing to hold them accountable.


Very well put. Why should the successful people be punished by the politicians who spent our Nation into unsustainable debt?

[tmleadr03]

This is the bit that's fucked up:

http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/webfeatures/snapshots/archive/2008/0618/Snapshot_chart_750.jpg

I'm certain no one on this forum is in the top 0.1% of income earners, and likely no one here has ever even known anyone in that group. The people at the very top, the people who buy influence in Washington, have been able to milk the system to the detriment of everyone else. In lieu of any better way to prevent them from being able to game the system, I think raising taxes is entirely fair. They did not go from being hundred-millionaires to billionaires on the back of their hard work or creativity. The idea that these people are the "job makers" has been proven wrong. They are the people who made billions betting against the US economy in 2007, the people who ship your jobs over seas where they make an extra thirty cents a share. These are not your idols.

If this graph had been staying consistent over time, I would be opposed to changes.

H.

Raising taxes just on the rich will have no real effect on how much revenue we get from taxes. We collect consistently 19% of GDP no matter what the tax rate on the higher end.

[SA Friday]

Who in the fuck decided "deficit spending" was OK?

George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

[Hoosier]

George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

Glad to see some people paid attention in Civics.

H.

[Hoosier]

Hoosier, that graph is all fine and dandy. It doesn't change the fact that we're in this mess due to overspending on the part of our elected officials.

We're not 14 trillion dollars in debt because people made money in the stock market.

It's like me spending way more money than I should and then writing checks on your account to pay my bills.

There is absolutely no rational justification for raising taxes on anyone.

Politicians need to STOP spending money we don't have.

And companies send their jobs overseas because the business environment in this country is too hostile with the unnecessary regulation and high tax rates. I don't like it but I sure as hell don't blame them

I agree. Which means lots of services are going to be cut. Anyone in the Military can expect to get a smaller paycheck and reduced services. Retirement age will be raised. Secondary taxes will be raised (state, county, vehicle fees, property tax, etc).

They can blame high taxes but what they mean is high wages. It's cheaper to ship it than build it local, the job will move to where the wages are cheapest. This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.

I really, sincerely wish the GOP did even half of what they promised. Hell, I wish the Dems did even half of what they promised.
[Bang]

H.

[Anton]

Glad to see some people paid attention in Civics.

H.

They don't teach any of that in Civics. SA Friday is obviously just well read. [Flower]

[Irving]

They don't teach any of that in Civics. SA Friday is obviously just well read. [Flower]


THIS!

[hkOrion]

George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

Irony here, I'm reading his biography and the author stated that people would blame him for the current state of the banking system. ROFL.

[Bailey Guns]

I agree. Which means lots of services are going to be cut. Anyone in the Military can expect to get a smaller paycheck and reduced services. Retirement age will be raised. Secondary taxes will be raised (state, county, vehicle fees, property tax, etc).

They can blame high taxes but what they mean is high wages. It's cheaper to ship it than build it local, the job will move to where the wages are cheapest. This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.

I really, sincerely wish the GOP did even half of what they promised. Hell, I wish the Dems did even half of what they promised.
[Bang]

H.

Not so sure I agree with that. I think taxes are more the reason. Isn't that why so many foreign auto companies have moved factories over here? To avoid high import tariffs.

Sure, I think a lot of domestic companies have been ruined by ridiculous union contracts but I still think when a company has to pay the 2nd highest(?) corporate tax rates in the world then they're obviously going to start looking for other places more friendly to business.

[Jumpstart]

a This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.


H.
But immigration is not cheap, it's expensive, very expensive. You seem opposed to outsourcing of jobs yet, but immigration illegal and legal is insourcing of jobs, yet Americans pay the overhead for the insourcing and the rich reap the benefits.

[n8tive97]

Not so sure I agree with that. I think taxes are more the reason. Isn't that why so many foreign auto companies have moved factories over here? To avoid high import tariffs.

Sure, I think a lot of domestic companies have been ruined by ridiculous union contracts but I still think when a company has to pay the 2nd highest(?) corporate tax rates in the world then they're obviously going to start looking for other places more friendly to business.


+1, unions (public and private), add environmental laws, the threat of nationalized health care and health care costs. Add the fact there is no incentive for Americans to get of their asses and find a job because of the social programs are too lucrative to name a few!

[SA Friday]

Irony here, I'm reading his biography and the author stated that people would blame him for the current state of the banking system. ROFL.

Ya, it's obviously more complicated than that. Jeffson actually wiped out the entire deficit during his time in office. His predecessors then reinitiated deficit spending. I think one can make a very solid case that without the the initiial thredsetting by Hamilton to incur and carry a national deficit, the Jefferson led influences of a balanced budget would have been more prominent and dominated current national finance philosophies.

Any creation period is an unstable time. Our countries was no different. Even after more than 200 years, we seem to still be divided in what theologies should dominate.