Man arrested for bringing gun into Thornton movie theater

[SuperiorDG]

This is really F_ed up. The manager of the theater, not understanding the law calls police and they believe him and ticket the guy.

The Post (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21190511/man-arrested-bringing-gun-into-thornton-movie-theater)
9News (http://www.9news.com/news/article/280385/188/Police-respond-to-incident-at-a-Thornton-movie-theater)

THORNTON - Police in Thornton responded to the Cinebarre movie theater at 10001 Grant St. for an incident on Sunday evening.
An employee of the theater tells 9NEWS that a patron carried a gun in a holster into the building. The patron had a permit to carry the weapon.
According to their website, Cinebarre is a movie theater that allows you to eat food and consume drinks -including alcoholic beverages during the film.
According to the employee, the manager called police, claiming the weapon was against Colorado's Concealed Carry law.
The Rocky Mountain Gun Owners organization, which provides an extensive explanation of concealed carry laws on their website, says concealed carry is not automatically prohibited in establishments that serve alcohol, but private business owners have the right to prohibit concealed weapons on their property.
9NEWS has reached out to Thornton police for official comment on the situation but has not heard back.
The theater was also not available for comment.
(KUSA-TV © 2012 Multimedia Holdings Corporation)

[buffalobo]

Of course, they "reached" out to police for comment and theater mgmt, did they reach out to citizen for his comment?

I personally would decline comment until all legal aspects settled, but shows the bias common in news reporting today.

Guy is a perp to the media.[Rant1]

[theGinsue]

The title of the article might as well have been:
"Armed Man Arrested At Area Movie Theater - Hundreds Of Lives Saved"

Nope, no bias there at all. [/sarcasm]

[dwalker460]

Just wondering if that theatre is one of several who prohibit carrying and have a sign up.

Either way the theatre manager is a complete ass if he just called the cops.

[Scanker19]

I want to see what his shirt says.

Welcome to the new America. A man at kent state was just arrested for inciting a panic. Sounds like some more charges need to be passed around.

[RCCrawler]

1. Obviously this man sucks at carrying concealed.

2. The fact that Thornton has something on the books to charge him with "possession of a dangerous weapon in a liquor and beer establishment" leads me to believe that maybe they do have something on the books against it.

[SuperiorDG]

I want to see what his shirt says.

I heard on the radio that it says something like Liberalism equals Terrorism.

[SuperiorDG]

2. The fact that Thornton has something on the books to charge him with "possession of a dangerous weapon in a liquor and beer establishment" leads me to believe that maybe they do have something on the books against it.

Thornton can't have a law on the books that is contrary to state law. Thornton is this case is wrong and totally messed this one up. I guess all the supervisors had the night off.

[Storm]

I'm going to assume this guy was carrying concealed and not carrying openly as they mention a permit in the articles. If he was carrying openly (particularly after last week), he's a freakin DUMB-ASS!

So a couple points on this.

1) This should be a cautionary tale on those of us that have a CHP and choose to carry into a marked and prohibited establishment. The point is this, as permit holders we know the law (at worst it's a trespassing charge, if you get caught carrying and refuse to leave), but the employees and mangers of said establishment may not know the law and automatically call the police. If you're going to do it, make damn sure it's concealed.

2) If he was arrested under some city ordinance in Thornton, he may have grounds for suing the city, under the state's firearms supremacy clause and possibly the theater as well.

ETA: I just re-read the DP article and it says he open-carried, so he's a dumb-ass. None the less, my two points still stand.

[Whistler]

Says he was carrying "openly" and I thought Thornton had a restriction against that?

[sneakerd]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?

[Great-Kazoo]

Phone bomb the theater so the mgr and or employees are made aware of the CCW law.
I'll call this afternoon, anyone else?

Sir or Madam,

Please be aware CO does allow CCW in places where alcoholic beverages are served. Unless there was a No Firearms sign clearly posted, the person you called the police on did nothing wrong, OR Illegal. Please reconsider your policy and also become familiar with CO firearm laws.

Thank you for your time.
Jim


After rereading the OP and watching the news. I will still call to point out CCw laws However THE OC person should have given some thought to his actions prior to going to the movies.

OC after the general populace is "on edge" you might as well have worn a KKK shirt to an Obama rally. You know something that doesn't put the masses in an uproar.

Phone calls, e-mail and or fax them in to awareness.

[Fist_gonzo]

Just saw on 31 news that he was carrying open, arrested for carrying in a establishment that serves alcohol? Then released with a summons. Wtf[Bang] fvck 31 news and their biased interviews

[sneakerd]

Obviously this idiot was doing this on purpose- he knew he was going to cause a stir. It's not helping "the cause" at all. I think people should be a little sensitive to the current wave and keep a lower profile.

[Fist_gonzo]

Obviously this idiot was doing this on purpose- he knew he was going to cause a stir. It's not helping "the cause" at all. I think people should be a little sensitive to the current wave and keep a lower profile.

I totally agree,

[Storm]

Obviously this idiot was doing this on purpose- he knew he was going to cause a stir. It's not helping "the cause" at all. I think people should be a little sensitive to the current wave and keep a lower profile.

I agree, he was being an attention whore. However, unless he did something more than was stated in the article, he still should not have been arrested.

[motorep]

Says he was carrying "openly" and I thought Thornton had a restriction against that?

SB03-25 declared this and other "local" ordinances unenforceable.

[blacklabel]

I agree, he was being an attention whore. However, unless he did something more than was stated in the article, he still should not have been arrested.

I'm with you. All this guy did was cost himself some money for a lawyer and bring negative press to gun owners.

[Scanker19]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?

The stickers on his car just wasn't cutting it.

[AK47 Ranger]

As much as he never broke any Colorado state law, he is a 100% dumbass for the stunt that he knew was going to cause / draw a commotion and incite feelings of panic.

We dont need idiots like this F'ing up our cause.

Just can't fix stupid.

[speedysst]

Ah but wait. Now the calls of "Its my right to defend myself!!" will be coming. Maybe the guy shouldnt have been arrested/cited but he damn sure should have been bitch slapped for doing something so obviously stupid. I like one of the commenters on the DP article about the tactical advantage of concealed carry versus open carry. Whoever wrote it was a thinking man.

[kanekutter05]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?


Obviously this idiot was doing this on purpose- he knew he was going to cause a stir. It's not helping "the cause" at all. I think people should be a little sensitive to the current wave and keep a lower profile.

That's a bit harsh isnt it? Listen, I understand where you're coming from...but OC isn't illegal except in Denver. If this guy wants to OC somewhere, that's his RIGHT. It's not his fault if people are offended by his choice to do something that is perfectly inside the laws of this state. Nor should "be sensitive" to what anyone else thinks about it. If he wants to OC then he is fully within his rights to do so. He isn't a "freak", nor is anyone else who wants to OC.

Honestly, if you're 100% for gun rights, then you better be 100% for OC as well.

[sneakerd]

No actually I don't. I think most of the guys who OC are doing it to look tough and make a statement. It takes no extra time to throw a light cover garment on and basically eliminates any likelihood of negative press and/or police interaction.

[spleify]

Wow, Fox 31 really did a good job of twisting that one around. They even interviewed some dumb broad that said, "people can get a hold of the gun, it could just go off accidently, people dont think, they could just pull the gun out and just shoot without thinking"......really??? I mean c'mon really? Are people really this f'in ignorant??? The gun can just go off accidently????? WTF?? Are you serious.

Oh, and Shaul Turner said "it was strapped to his waste and he wearing it so other people could see it"??

C'mon Fox get over your f'in selves and report actual facts.

[BPTactical]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?

Bingo!
If you choose to OC in a populated area, which IMHO is not wise-you had best be prepared for what it may bring.
Dumbass FAIL!

[kanekutter05]

No actually I don't. I think most of the guys who OC are doing it to look tough and make a statement. It takes no extra time to throw a light cover garment on and basically eliminates any likelihood of negative press and/or police interaction.

Ah but you're assuming that every gun owner has (or even can have for that matter) a CCW permit. What if a gun owner can't afford to get his CCW permit? What if a gun owner isn't allowed to have a CCW permit from an infraction from when he was a kid? You're making a lot of generalizations here.

It's actually surprising to me that there are this many gun advocates here and nearly all of the reaction in this thread is negative towards OC. I just don't understand the negativity. You do realize that people who are fond of the AR platform get WAY worse press for the gun rights community than OCers do right? If we start worrying about how we look in the press then we already have defeated ourselves...because the press doesn't want any of us to have guns in the 1st place. If we start trying to look good in the press, then we will start giving up our rights.

[Mtn.man]

Go on to fox 31's website and read the comments. People are defending the gun "toting' dude. beat down that Shawl "look at me" Turner

[sneakerd]

I assume nothing at all. My statement stands as I typed it. No more and no less. Just picture this idiot's thought process prior to him going out. Don't you think it occurred to him that he might get some negative attention by OCing in a movie theater a week after a mass killing in another metro theater? Of course it did. HE DID IT TO MAKE A STATEMENT- dumbass.

[sneakerd]

If someone can't afford a CCW- don't carry. If you can't get a CCW for another reason- don't carry.

[vectorsc]

Nothing makes me sadder about the state of America than the contents of this thread, on every level.
I'm surprised Soros isn't here to speak on the relative merits of courage and "doing the smart thing".

[kanekutter05]

I assume nothing at all. My statement stands as I typed it. No more and no less. Just picture this idiot's thought process prior to him going out. Don't you think it occurred to him that he might get some negative attention by OCing in a movie theater a week after a mass killing in another metro theater? Of course it did. HE DID IT TO MAKE A STATEMENT- dumbass.


If someone can't afford a CCW- don't carry. If you can't get a CCW for another reason- don't carry.

I'm going to remove myself from this discussion before I start letting my emotions get the better of me. But let me tell you this, you have absolutely no right to tell someone they shouldn't carry for any reason.

[hatidua]

OC'ing a firearm, to a movie theater, just weeks after some nutcase killed a dozen people in a similar venue is somewhat akin to wearing a Glock or Remington t-shirt to the Aurora victims memorial. There might not be a law against it but common sense dictates a slightly different approach at times.

[sneakerd]

[Cry] So I guess OC at the theater man was being "courageous"[Shake][Puke]

The dumbass reference was to the OC'er not you. I'm pretty sure most people here read that right.

[TFOGGER]

Agreed. He had a CHP, but chose not to conceal. He was well aware of the potential results of his actions.

[vectorsc]

This person likely had a fair appreciation of what was about to happen - as such Yes.

Going out and standing up for what you think is right in the face of the armed opposition of your local police takes courage.

I imagine that people who stood up for the Gay and Civil rights groups in a public way were probably chastised by their less courageous associates as well. "If we just keep a low profile, I have no doubt we will prevail....somehow."

[sneakerd]

You make a good point. But...... I think the differences between the 2 examples are pretty obvious.

[Colorado Luckydog]

As much as he never broke any Colorado state law, he is a 100% dumbass for the stunt that he knew was going to cause / draw a commotion and incite feelings of panic.

We dont need idiots like this F'ing up our cause.

Just can't fix stupid.

X2

I open carry a lot but this was just stupid!!!

[sneakerd]

Just thought of what might be a good example. What if Mr. OC-man is a big Batman fan. Also fascinated with mass murderers. Doesn't do it- just reads everything about them and has a library of such at home. He chooses to go to the midnight Batman movie tonight dressed exactly as the murderer was- but has no weapons of any kind. What law is he breaking? None to my knowledge.
Will he cause a panic and get arrested? Yes. Is he a dumbass or not?

[JoeT]

I'm with kanekutter....if someone used a car to kill those people at the cinema , would you stop driving to the movies? We say it because we believe it, a gun is just a tool...no different than a hammer or even a car

While I'm not a fan of OC myself, it is legal and you have every right to do so. I moved from a state that printing under your shirt gets you arrested....is that the next step here in Colorado? It would be better for the victims if all of us showed respect by giving up our guns completely?

What OC does accomplish is that it lets the sheep see that good guys carry guns too, and that every time you see a gun it's not going on a shooting rampage. I open carried my first 3 months aft moving here while waiting for my Ccw ....should I have not been able to protect myself, my wife or kids because of a wait? There are some exclusionary reasons that people would be unable to Ccw , you truly believe that they shouldn't be able to protect themselves or their family?

[vectorsc]

I do not think the differences between our "Second Amendment RIGHTS", "Civil RIGHTS", and "Gay and Lesbian RIGHTS" are pretty obvious.

And if you want to say that Civil Rights and Gay and Lesbian Rights don't scare some people almost to death, you should get out more.

[sneakerd]

Sooooo.... is this guy seen by the general public as a good guy? Also, 2nd Amendment rights refer to firearms. Civil Rights and/or Gay and Lesbian rights refer to human rights. 2 completely different things and 2 completely different discussions. Your issues belong in the Political thread.

[O2HeN2]

From a bunch of "From my cold, dead hands" folks you sure tuck your tail between and your legs and go running when it comes to OC.

If you want people to know that law abiding people own guns too, show them. Having a bunch of mall-ninja safe queens does nothing to associate firearms with law-abiding folks.

And all the vitriolic directed at a fellow gun-owner, I guess we're our own worst enemy. "Divided we fall." and we're falling, by the way.

O2

[Ronin13]

No actually I don't. I think most of the guys who OC are doing it to look tough and make a statement. It takes no extra time to throw a light cover garment on and basically eliminates any likelihood of negative press and/or police interaction.

You forgot to mention the element of surprise... OC means even the bad guys can see you're armed and will target you first... CC and you're just another random face in the crowd. [Beer]

[Chad4000]

unwanted attention... conceal that bad boy and there is no problem...

[WinterBoarder]

SB03-25 declared this and other "local" ordinances unenforceable.

I believe Denver sued and open carry is banned there? The ruling shows the Denver suit as affirmed, will have to research the original case.

http://opencarry.org/co.html

http://ebookbrowse.com/04sa396and05sa22-pdf-d298901402

[sneakerd]

Ok O2HeN2 let's see you OC to your local theater tonight. I challenge you to show everyone there you're a good guy and have a God-given right to OC. Put your money where your mouth is. It certainly will cost you. Make sure lots of people can see your gat! See you on the news in handcuffs.

[motorep]

I believe Denver sued and open carry is banned there? The ruling shows the Denver suit as affirmed, will have to research the original case.

http://opencarry.org/co.html

http://ebookbrowse.com/04sa396and05sa22-pdf-d298901402

I believe that's accurate. Thornton has not challenged in court, however.

[WinterBoarder]

So, IF the theater had the proper no firearms signage and IF the theater owners and operators knew the law, they should have approached him, told him that they have posted the appropriate signage and asked him to leave. If he refused to leave, contact LEO and he could be arrested for trespassing.

Looks like this situation would be a third degree criminal trespass.

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/areas_criminal_litigation/burglary_criminal_trespass.html

"Criminal trespass includes entry upon buildings, land, motor vehicles or other property, and generally does not require the intent to commit an additional crime. Criminal trespass, like burglary, may be in the first, second or third degree, and ranges from a Class 5 felony to a Class 1 petty offense."

"Third Degree Criminal Trespass (18-4-504)

A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.
Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense, but:
(a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and
(b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon."

[O2HeN2]

Ok O2HeN2 let's see you OC to your local theater tonight. I challenge you to show everyone there you're a good guy and have a God-given right to OC. Put your money where your mouth is. It certainly will cost you. Make sure lots of people can see your gat! See you on the news in handcuffs.
There are no longer any theaters in the 'springs that aren't marked "No firearms" anymore. I respect other people's rights.

Unlike many on this board and other firearm boards I frequent, when I see a "no firearms" sign I respect the property owners rights -- I either don't go with a gun, or I simply don't go (the latter being the 99% choice).

I am dismayed at the many gun owners who, when they see a "no firearms" sign take the position of "Cover up and go!" All the while whingeing about people attacking their rights, they have no problem ignoring other people's rights.

So though you seem to have no qualms about asking me to ignore the theater owner's rights, I do. My rights end where the theater owner's begin. You obviously don't think so.

Again, we're our own worst enemy.

O2

[Whistler]

Just so I'm clear is the issue OC in general or the insensitivity to the current situation?

Don't think I'm an advocate of saying OC in general is stupid by virtue of drawing unwarranted attention usually since another way to perceive that is we can enjoy our rights and protect ourselves so long as we hide.

I do think this person exercised poor judgement in light of the emotional climate and his ability to have carried concealed. Play stupid games...

[O2HeN2]

For the inevitable CC versus OC discussion, may I recommend this already-established thread. (http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=57846)

O2

[00tec]

For a group of guys that are so 2A friendly, there is sure a lot of bashing going on here. The fact is, that this man DID NOT do anything illegal. It is within his rights to open carry, for whatever reason. Stupid, yes, given the recent events, but this dude should have not been arrested/cited/harassed by law enforcement unless he was asked to leave and refused.


I have never seen a sign in cinebarre not allowing firearms either.

[sneakerd]

My issue is the insensitivity/stupidity of OC man in doing something that he KNEW would cause an uproar. Certainly just because he wanted to make a statement. However, I still stand by my previous post that most people OC because they want to make a statement, not because they have any need to. As O2s response- the challenge stands. Just go to another theater that does not post as you say they do in C0Springs. Hopefully you won't do it because hopefully you are smarter than the subject of our current discussion.

[josh7328]

I had to open carry for a while before I turned 21 and got my CHL. Sometimes it's people's only option to defend themselves and their families. Open carry isn't a bad thing that only macho-men and trouble-seekers do. That being said, this guy was a dumbass. He had his CHL, yet chose to open carry in a place that was sure to stir the pot. Getting eyes on responsible gun ownership is a noble cause, but the key word there is "responsible". This guy should have simply left his gun in the car, concealed the thing, or waited for his movie to come out on video. I have little sympathy for him.
I also respect property owner's rights. If they don't want guns on their property, I politely take my business elsewhere. Pissing people off doesn't further a cause in a positive way. There are other times and places where OC can be a positive influence on the public opinion on guns, if that is your goal, but this was not one of them.

[AK47 Ranger]

This is what has me....not the OC part. Its in light of the recent events. Timing is everything and you bet it was poor judgement to OC to a theater the week after. I would love to hear his reasoning and how he thought it was a rational one given the events of late.



For a group of guys that are so 2A friendly, there is sure a lot of bashing going on here. The fact is, that this man DID NOT do anything illegal. It is within his rights to open carry, for whatever reason. Stupid, yes, given the recent events, but this dude should have not been arrested/cited/harassed by law enforcement unless he was asked to leave and refused.


I have never seen a sign in cinebarre not allowing firearms either.

[00tec]

My issue is the insensitivity/stupidity of OC man in doing something that he KNEW would cause an uproar. Certainly just because he wanted to make a statement. However, I still stand by my previous post that most people OC because they want to make a statement, not because they have any need to. As O2s response- the challenge stands. Just go to another theater that does not post as you say they do in C0Springs. Hopefully you won't do it because hopefully you are smarter than the subject of our current discussion.
If he is trying to make a statement, that's his right according to the 1st amendment.

Again, stupid and insensitive- sure
Illegal, nope

If police is called because the operator of an establishment is too stupid to know that this act is illegal, or just too chicken shit to approach the individual- whatever- but the police should have just asked said individual to leave instead of making him out like a criminal.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Yeah make a bomb joke on a plane and see how far it gets you. Even though you have freedom of speech. Sometimes because you can doesn't mean you always should. Apply that to your life all around.

[sniper7]

Wow, Fox 31 really did a good job of twisting that one around. They even interviewed some dumb broad that said, "people can get a hold of the gun, it could just go off accidently, people dont think, they could just pull the gun out and just shoot without thinking"......really??? I mean c'mon really? Are people really this f'in ignorant??? The gun can just go off accidently????? WTF?? Are you serious.

Oh, and Shaul Turner said "it was strapped to his waste and he wearing it so other people could see it"??

C'mon Fox get over your f'in selves and report actual facts.

That is about as ignorant as saying a car can start itself put itself into gear and head full speed to a elementary playground.
We need breeding programs

[dwalker460]

Wow-

I get that many will think it is insensitive or attention grabbing to carry into a theatre after the events of a week ago, and its fine to feel that way.

I think however there are too many conclussions being jumped to. The first is the idea he was looking for attention- maybe, but is it not just as likely the guy just carries his gun every single day, for years and years, to the point it, like a wallet or pocketknife, is just part of his routine and he doesnt think about it? I know when I have forgotten completely I had my gun on me and just walked right into places that did not allow them.

Ok, so maybe he might have been a little more sensitive to the the publics tenderness in light of recent events...

Seriously? Really?

As someone who used to carry daily I got out of the habit after I got married because my wife thought it was silly and was always questioning why a the need to always have a gun nearby. The theatre shooting brought it back into focus that there are whackjobs out there, and once again I go few places unarmed.

Do I think this guy is smart for what he did? Not really, but it is his right and the theater manager over-reacted (or simply did not have the balls) and the responders did a pitiful job. Altogether the whole thing could have been avoided had the manager simply done his job and asked the patron to leave. For all we know the patron bought a ticket (first opportunity BTW for him to be informed there is a no weapons policy), grabbed a snack (possible 2nd opportunity for the patron to be approached and informed of the theaters policy) and went and sat down to watch his movie, and was sitting there quietly munching his popcorn until the police showed up and ruined his movie.\

The real criticism here should be focused on the theater manager and the responders, not the sap who walked into a theater with his legally holstered weapon. I can almost PROMISE you that the manager took it on himself to "evacuate" the other theaters, call the police, and "stop a crazed gunman", the entire time not knowing jack about the law or how it applies to this situation and escalating a situation that should have and could have been handled in a calm, discreet manner. Instead of one inconvienced customer you now have a number of confused, scared, and angry customers. I hope his dumb ass is fired.

MOF, I am going to call Cinemark and suggest that very thing.

[sneakerd]

There is no possible way that guy strapped up last night without thinking about what might happen. Hell- I'm waiting to find out if he's a member here, just like the rest of you are wondering.

[BushMasterBoy]

They will probably tear down the theater and build a mosque there instead...[ROFL1]

[sneakerd]

You're being insensitive!! [ROFL1]

[O2HeN2]

However, I still stand by my previous post that most people OC because they want to make a statement, not because they have any need to.
You say that as if it’s a bad thing.

A little bit of history on how Colorado finally got “shall issue” CC laws:

Back in the mid-90s, one of El Paso Sheriff’s candidate John Anderson’s planks was “I will issue CC permits” in a state that was at that time “may issue”. He handily beat the incumbent in the primaries (much to their shock and surprise) and ended up winning the election.

And he kept his promise, despite a whole state of Sheriff's coming down on him telling him not to do so (no one expected him to win). Sheriff Anderson and I came fairly well acquainted during this time, and a comment he made to me has stuck with me all this time and is the primary reason I open carry. We were talking about his deputies processing the CCW applications and how for the first if us we were treated like criminals (I had to go to the Criminal Justice Center for fingerprints, and got the full “Stand behind that line!”, “Lean forward!”, “Give me your hand!” treatment.

His comment, now that we were several months into the process (and CC folks were being treated better) was:

“Up until now, all my deputies dealt with were bad people, now they’re learning that there are good people out there!” (as close as I can recall).

We have an uphill battle. Except for extremely few “interesting” cases (like New Life Church and recently the 71 year old man in Florida) the public has ZERO exposure to good people with guns. Thank the OC folks for at least trying to change that perception.

Face it, hiding like you're embarrassed to be a gun owner helps no one.

O2

[hatidua]

For a group of guys that are so 2A friendly, there is sure a lot of bashing going on here. The fact is, that this man DID NOT do anything illegal. It is within his rights to open carry, for whatever reason.

Yep, the open carry crowd in California felt the same way. Look where it got 'em. What this guy did hurts gun owners in general, not just open carry fans.

[sneakerd]

The decision has nothing to do with "hiding", it has to do with discretion.

[josh7328]

Wow-

I get that many will think it is insensitive or attention grabbing to open carry into a theatre after the events of a week ago, and its fine to feel that way.



FIFY. There is a difference in this case.

[O2HeN2]

As O2s response- the challenge stands. Just go to another theater that does not post as you say they do in C0Springs. Hopefully you won't do it because hopefully you are smarter than the subject of our current discussion.
[sorry I didn't catch this on my first reply, you edited while I was replying]

I am smart, that's why I OC. And if I find a movie that I'd like to watch in a theater that's not posted, I will OC.

"[if] you are smarter" -- points for trying, but a poor way to debate. This is like Obama's recent "I'm sure we can all agree.. comment"

O2

[Byte Stryke]

All I have to say is that we carry here in GA... OPEN is the Preference.
even in Atlanta
in Movie Theaters
in Bars


"OMG there was a horrible crime committed with a gun! So we have to change the way we exercise our rights in COMPROMISE."


it's as if I don't even know some of you anymore...

[O2HeN2]

...COMPROMISE
Good point, the anti-OC crowd is volunteering to compromise. They didn't even have to be asked to!

If you don't have the fortitude to just OC, or at the very least support your fellow gun owner that OCs, when push comes to shove you're going to roll over like a puppy.

O2

[dwalker460]

FIFY. There is a difference in this case.

No, there is not a difference. Carrying a weapon is still carrying a weapon.

Since apparently some of you think CC is king, WHAT IF, Heaven forbid, BUT WHAT IF you are CC and your shirt rides up slightly and BAM, the little girl behind counter sees not an innocent citizen, but a criminal carrying a hidden weapon. Your now trying to hide something! OOOO yeah thats a MUCH BETTER scenario than a guy who just walks up with one on his belt, for all to see.

Geez, I support CC as much as the next guy and I support this guys right to OC, even in a movie theater! If ONLY someone had been OC on the tragic night your wringing your hands about there might not have been such a tragedy.

Again, your missing the point, the manager of this theater is an ass. One who does not know his job and should be fired. The responders who arrested this guy may not know or understand their job either, that remains to be seen. The ONE GUY who understood his job was the one who was arrested and your giving him the grief? Liberal much?

[Ronin13]

No, there is not a difference. Carrying a weapon is still carrying a weapon.

Since apparently some of you think CC is king, WHAT IF, Heaven forbid, BUT WHAT IF you are CC and your shirt rides up slightly and BAM, the little girl behind counter sees not an innocent citizen, but a criminal carrying a hidden weapon. Your now trying to hide something! OOOO yeah thats a MUCH BETTER scenario than a guy who just walks up with one on his belt, for all to see.

Geez, I support CC as much as the next guy and I support this guys right to OC, even in a movie theater! If ONLY someone had been OC on the tragic night your wringing your hands about there might not have been such a tragedy.

Again, your missing the point, the manager of this theater is an ass. One who does not know his job and should be fired. The responders who arrested this guy may not know or understand their job either, that remains to be seen. The ONE GUY who understood his job was the one who was arrested and your giving him the grief? Liberal much?

Very good points. I'm simply stating that for my own reasons I don't OC often, but I support anyone who OC more than CC. I CC all the damn time and prefer it for the element of surprise more than anything... I don't need to make any statement or educate anyone and I just prefer to avoid the issue that may arise with OC... YMMV.[Beer]

[DYoung]

No one here is disputing the theater goer's RIGHT to OC, the dispute is whether he exercised good judgement in doing so given recent events. Like others here, I question his motive for OC in this situation and we have the RIGHT to criticize him for it.

[buffalobo]

If someone can't afford a CCW- don't carry. If you can't get a CCW for another reason- don't carry.


You would deny someone the ability of self defense with a gun in public because they cannot afford the permission slip and tax?

[josh7328]

Liberal much?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You clearly didn't read my previous posts. That gave me the best laugh i've had in quite a while. First time i've ever been called a liberal in my life! All because I suggested that this man may have used poor judgement. Ahhh good shit. I love this forum...[Beer]

[cofi]

I'm with kanekutter....if someone used a car to kill those people at the cinema , would you stop driving to the movies? We say it because we believe it, a gun is just a tool...no different than a hammer or even a car

While I'm not a fan of OC myself, it is legal and you have every right to do so. I moved from a state that printing under your shirt gets you arrested....is that the next step here in Colorado? It would be better for the victims if all of us showed respect by giving up our guns completely?

What OC does accomplish is that it lets the sheep see that good guys carry guns too, and that every time you see a gun it's not going on a shooting rampage. I open carried my first 3 months aft moving here while waiting for my Ccw ....should I have not been able to protect myself, my wife or kids because of a wait? There are some exclusionary reasons that people would be unable to Ccw , you truly believe that they shouldn't be able to protect themselves or their family?

i couldnt agree more

[cofi]

and i will be oc the next couple of days because of all the weenies in this thread saying not to

[kanekutter05]

and i will be oc the next couple of days because of all the weenies in this thread saying not to

It's been far too long since I've heard one man call another man a "weenie"...fantastic [ROFL3]

[BushMasterBoy]

The guy will plead it down to having an unlicensed dog...then he will run for city council and win!

[O2HeN2]

The decision has nothing to do with "hiding", it has to do with discretion.

...the dispute is whether he exercised good judgement in doing so...
This seems to be a reoccurring theme. I offer the observation that I’m sure a lot of people wondered if Rosa Parks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks)should have exercised more "discression" or was "exercising good judgement"...

Rights are rights, folks. They don't last long when you don't exercise them.

O2

[10mm-man]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?

I CCW with that said I am glad that they OC and wish more would. It's a legal right, and if they want the attention then go for it. I on the other hand don't need it.....

[SuperiorDG]

If he had not worn a shirt with the word "Terrorist" on it I wonder if things would have turned out differently?

[ScooterCO]

Ok... Timing was tasteless! Enough said.
But this thread provided an idea that should be exercised and supported...
How about a "Flash" open carry situation to bring attention to the cause? Or a planned time of like minded citizens all over town doing an OC storm in very public locations? This would not need to be in your part of town as I too would rather be anonymous about where I am carrying or not.
Just a thought!

[SuperiorDG]

http://www.tonysrants.com/thornton/second-amendment-battle-comes-to-thornton-following-century-16-shooting/

This link explains a lot about this case.

[DavieD55]

I say conceal it, however, I support open carry also. He should have been asked to leave at most. To be honest this shouldn't even be a news story.

[Singlestack]

I certainly respect the guys right to OC, and no the theater manager shouldn't have called the cops. That said:

- Fear is the strongest human emotion, and people are creatures of fear
- There are a lot of good people out there who aren't gun knowledgeable or have one or more guns
- Cops are trained to "keep the peace" above a lot of other things they could do. Although you won't be arrested for OCing on Pearl street mall in Boulder, you will be detained for awhile if a cope there sees you OCing or if someone calls the cops on you.

I believe that gun rights are fairly emotional to many people, and I'd prefer not to contribute to an average citizen and likely voter from having a neutral gun stance to an anti-gun stance. I have some friends who fit this profile.

Under certain circumstances, if enough people are fearful and in favor of more firearm restrictions, they will contact their representatives and demand action, ably aided by the willing TV and newspaper media. This is exactly what happened in England and Australia, so I believe under the right conditions it may be possible here.

I do think the guy in Thornton knew what he was doing, and used poor judgement. Certainly was his right, tho - nobody argues that. Reminds me about the ground zero mosque several months ago. Certainly legal, but not smart.

Singlestack

[TFOGGER]

I'm the last person to advocate a PC mentality. That being said, there are perhaps better ways to advocate for the Second Amendment and the open carry movement.

[Byte Stryke]

yeah well when Mapes gets done settling for only 45 Million instead of the full 100 Million in his civil rights violation case, we will see who was stupid

[00tec]

yeah well when Mapes gets done settling for only 45 Million instead of the full 100 Million in his civil rights violation case, we will see who was stupid

[Beer]

[rocktot]

Well, rest assured, there are going to be plenty of CCW holders going to movies for a while weather its 'allowed' or not, and everywhere else, unless its government property, or they don't know that law.

[rocktot]

If he had not worn a shirt with the word "Terrorist" on it I wonder if things would have turned out differently?

Well if it said: Rush Limbaugh is a terrorist, then no problemo.

[Byte Stryke]

Well, rest assured, there are going to be plenty of CCW holders going to movies for a while weather its 'allowed' or not, and everywhere else, unless its government property, or they don't know that law.


not this one...

and when this happens again... and it will, I will stand up and say "we'll I could have stopped it, but you don't want my kind there."

everyone can go pound sand, I'm watching me and mine

[marty]

Get this, a 9news TV report just said the guy open carrying in the theater did not have an "open carry permit".

[argonstrom]

Get this, a 9news TV report just said the guy open carrying in the theater did not have an "open carry permit".

You're kidding, right???

[sroz]

This guy is simply a dumbass. Doing what he did just to prove a point or draw attention to himself is just disrespectful to all who were impacted by the Century 16 shootings.

Dumbass!

[centrarchidae]

Ah but you're assuming that every gun owner has (or even can have for that matter) a CCW permit. What if a gun owner can't afford to get his CCW permit? What if a gun owner isn't allowed to have a CCW permit from an infraction from when he was a kid? You're making a lot of generalizations here.


Is there an infraction on the books, anywhere, that would make someone ineligible for a CFL in Colorado, but that wouldn't completely bar them from firearms possession?

If there is, then no doubt I'll stand corrected, but I didn't think there was such a beast.

And what's missing from the story: Did anybody at the theater tell him to leave before he was charged?

[meuxse]

How about you OC freaks take a frickin breaK for a while? I understand the point you guys are trying to make- but how about cooling it instead of calling attention to yourselves.?

Sooo, what you are saying is that us "OC freaks" have to relinquish ours rights "for a while" so Joe doesn't feel nervous around us? How about we all relinquish our rig,hts "for a while"? If you truly understood the point WE are trying to make you wouldn't make such statements. I have open carried for over a year now. Do I have a CCP? Yup. Do I still OC? Yup. Maybe if all the CCP open carried more often the stigma would go away. Just maybe.

[00tec]

At least he was wearing a "Liberalism is a mental disorder" shirt

[theGinsue]

Just because you have a Right to do something doesn't always mean that you should. You need to exercise situational awareness, know your environment and the climate.

Standing in the middle of the street in Sturgis during their annual bike rally @ 0100 in the morning and screaming at the top of your lungs "All Harley riders suck c*ck and take it in the @$$!" isn't wise. Do you have the "right"? Sure! Will they find your dead body in a field later in the day? Probably.

There is a time and a place for everything. As firearms owners we should be smart enough to know when discretion is called for and when it's not a problem to stir things up by exercising your rights.

[Ridge]

Sooo, what you are saying is that us "OC freaks" have to relinquish ours rights "for a while" so Joe doesn't feel nervous around us? How about we all relinquish our rig,hts "for a while"? If you truly understood the point WE are trying to make you wouldn't make such statements. I have open carried for over a year now. Do I have a CCP? Yup. Do I still OC? Yup. Maybe if all the CCP open carried more often the stigma would go away. Just maybe.

Bro, welcome to the forums, but bitching at the words of a guy who's been at the heart of this mess since the beginning is not the right foot to lead off with.

[centrarchidae]

Maybe if all the CCP open carried more often the stigma would go away. Just maybe.

Demanding that the world look at oneself to make a point worked so well in California last year.

[meuxse]

Just because you have a Right to do something doesn't always mean that you should. You need to exercise situational awareness, know your environment and the climate.

Standing in the middle of the street in Sturgis during their annual bike rally @ 0100 in the morning and screaming at the top of your lungs "All Harley riders suck c*ck and take it in the @$$!" isn't wise. Do you have the "right"? Sure! Will they find your dead body in a field later in the day? Probably.

There is a time and a place for everything. As firearms owners we should be smart enough to know when discretion is called for and when it's not a problem to stir things up by exercising your rights.

Again, soooo, the environment and climate regulate my rights? Don't let uncle Sam know. There is a time and place for all things. Including being a victim of a crime that could have been prevented or lessoned. You keep your rights hidden thanks to media bias and public panic due to one persons actions. I will continue to exercise mine openly. I guess we should all quit driving when someone kills a kid in a school crossing to, right? Wrong. And driving isn't even a right, it's a priveledge.

[theGinsue]

Best pull back the reins there hoss. Coming onto a private site from out of state and acting so agressively right off the bat is another situation where you need to know your environment.

Just sayin!

[Scanker19]

Again, soooo, the environment and climate regulate my rights? Don't let uncle Sam know. There is a time and place for all things. Including being a victim of a crime that could have been prevented or lessoned. You keep your rights hidden thanks to media bias and public panic due to one persons actions. I will continue to exercise mine openly. I guess we should all quit driving when someone kills a kid in a school crossing to, right? Wrong. And driving isn't even a right, it's a priveledge.

Then you support the WBC's decisions to exercise their 1st amendment rights when they do?


Via Yahoo and veery stoopid as will:

He added that he has held a concealed carry permit issued by the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office since 2003, although the Thornton movie theater doesn't reside in Arapahoe County, so the permit doesn't help his case.

[Byte Stryke]

Just because you have a Right to do something doesn't always mean that you should. You need to exercise situational awareness, know your environment and the climate.

Standing in the middle of the street in Sturgis during their annual bike rally @ 0100 in the morning and screaming at the top of your lungs "All Harley riders suck c*ck and take it in the @$$!" isn't wise. Do you have the "right"? Sure! Will they find your dead body in a field later in the day? Probably.

There is a time and a place for everything. As firearms owners we should be smart enough to know when discretion is called for and when it's not a problem to stir things up by exercising your rights.

THOMAS!!!!!

What in the 'heck' is wrong with you?

Please go back and re-read that when you aren't crazy in the nogin....

so what you are saying is that everyone needs to hide the guns and go disarmed for the sake of the liberals?

REALLY?


We as Americans should ALWAYS be able to exercise our RIGHTS... that's why we call them RIGHTS and not privileges.

what next,
"Oh, Theres a flood, everyone turn in your guns...
National Emergency and all, Discretion required! you understand right?"



[Bang]


more compromise in this thread than an NRA Meeting

[10mm-man]

Maybe if all the CCP open carried more often the stigma would go away. Just maybe.

I hope you succeed and totally agree![Beer]

[Mtn.man]

[Pop]

[Byte Stryke]

And someone explain to me how wearing a sidearm is like insulting Bikers?

[Scanker19]

And someone explain to me how wearing a sidearm is like insulting Bikers?

He's saying it's the context of when you do it. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand. No one (well most) is saying not to OC just pick when you do it smartly. Just as when you would pick to insult bikers using your 1st amendment rights.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[theGinsue]

Both show a lack of wisdom & discretion given the circumstances.


He's saying it's the context of when you do it. Why is this so hard to understand for everyone. No one (well most) is saying not to OC just pick when you do it smartly. Just as when you would pick to insult bikers using your 1st amendment rights.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

BINGO! We have a winner!

I'm an advocate of OC, I just know that there are times when it isn't appropriate.

[meuxse]

@jordanIs19
I do support the WBC's rights under the first amendment. I don't agree with their reasons or tactics or ideals at all. Please don't misunderstand me. I DO NOT support the WBC. I do support their rights under the first amendment. Just as I do yours.

[Scanker19]

@jordanIs19
I do support the WBC's rights under the first amendment. I don't agree with their reasons or tactics or ideals at all. Please don't misunderstand me. I DO NOT support the WBC. I do support their rights under the first amendment. Just as I do yours.

As do I, and that's my point. It's the situation they choose do it in. Actions have consequences, both good and bad.

This guy in Thornton is going to have to spend some hard earned money to get this toss for something that isn't illegal (consequence). Hopefully Thornton will have to pay him back and then some for their uncalled for actions (consequence).

[sniper7]

Just because someone feels scared or threatened does not mean anyone else's rights should be violated. Given the fact he had a CCW, it may have been better to go about his business that way. If he did not have one I fully support him. I am in the middle on this one, given the recent theater shooting, but I am in no way saying he should give up his rights or for any of us to give up our rights. My issue is that he had a concealed carry permit and he wasn't using it. That shows me he wanted to make a scene and see whether or not he would be called out on it. He was, he got arrested and now I hope he gets paid dearly for it so some knowledge gets translated to people, businesses, police, .gov etc.

The issue with that will be the backlash from those same people that gain some knowledge on the subject. Now that theater will most certainly have a no firearms sign so future OC will not be permitted and the employees will be trained to look for OC. The police will learn the laws so that is a positive. The state .gov may get enough of a response, especially in light of the recent theater shootings to make a change in the law which could possibly eliminate OC all together or restrict it further.

I side with those who say no rights should be given up ever, no matter what the tragedy or situation. But given the fact this guy had a CCW and chose to OC as a way of expressing his rights is the reason he ended up arrested and not enjoying a movie without any problems.

[BPTactical]

I'm an advocate of OC, I just know that there are times when it isn't appropriate.

Win.
As I stated I don't know how many pages ago, if one chooses to open carry one had better be prepared for what may come with it.
The one thing everybody has missed here: With rights come responsibilities, and discretion is a vital responsibility when it comes to firearms.

[SideShow Bob]

As do I, and that's my point. It's the situation they choose do it in. Actions have consequences, both good and bad.

This guy in Thornton is going to have to spend some hard earned money to get this toss for something that isn't illegal (consequence). Hopefully Thornton will have to pay him back and then some for their uncalled for actions (consequence).

Thank you for getting this back on track.
Originally, I am assuming ( I know, I Know what happens when you assume. )
That the OP meant this as a discussion of the OC'er being arrested and charged when the theater is not posted and the manager not following the letter of the law and asking the patron to leave, rather just called the police. And them as police officers not knowing what is legal or not.
We all got derailed onto the was the OC'er an idiot or not....

[jslo]

[Beer]

[O2HeN2]

Yes, gun owners, cower in the back of the bus where many people think you belong.

Many of my older friends, god rest their souls, regaled me with stories about taking their 22 rifles to elementary school, giving them to the principal to hold during the day then picking them up and squirrel hunting on the way home. What happened? All the news ever shows these days is guns in a negative light (if it bleeds, it leads). I know of nothing these days except OC that exposes the average non-gunner to the positive aspects of firearms (please, feel free to correct me).

It's time to come out of the closet, folks. In case you're not paying attention WE'RE LOSING!

O2

[JoeT]

Maybe this isn't a good time to shoot an ar15, perhaps some of you should put them away until The public thinks it's "ok" again...you know it might be too soon right now.

I really am shocked, and quite honestly, disappointed at some in this forum. Whether you agree with open carry or not, we as gun owners NEED to all be on the same page. Either what this guy did was legal, or it wasn't . Either we should be able to carry firearms in public or we shouldn't .

Or maybe we should contact our representatives and have the words "unless it makes someone uncomfortable" in all carry laws

[Whistler]

So what if he wanted to make a point stupid or not. Didn't I see a thread on here about some homosexuals boycotting a private business because he wouldn't make them a wedding cake? They couldn't just take their business to another cake store? Maybe 2A guys could take a lesson, they seem to get their way. Seriously though read history, guns are demonized to make restrictions palatable, sort of like "nobody needs an AR for hunting" - just like every time before. You can't ban guns in this country but you can restrict "certain" guns and incrementally hamstring the 2nd Amendment until it means nothing while conditioning the public to the idea that privately held guns are for hunting or competition. Well if that's the case why do you need them in your home? Why can't they stay locked up at the (mandatory) hunting or shooting club? Soon self defense is no longer a justification to be "permitted" to purchase a gun. The furor will ease like every time before and after we will have a little less and our passion will be slightly more "fringe" like every time before.

[Clint45]

If he had a valid CCW permit and was completely co-operative, I fail to understand WHY he was arrested and his property seized "as evidence." He should have been refunded his money and asked to leave and possibly written an appearance ticket. Since the officers instead chose to arrest him the city can face a lawsuit for false arrest and possibly malicious prosecution if the DA wants to pursue it.

That being said, he should have expected that open carrying a pistol into a theater so soon after the incident in Aurora would've alarmed people. Evacuating all the theaters and making a reverse 911 call seems a bit extreme though.

[dwalker460]

What has "appropriatte" got to do with anything??? It makes someone nervous so the answer is to call the guy an idiot and demonize his actions???

Seriously half the people in this thread need to go back and rethink some things. Have you ever been in public OC and NOT had someone uncomfortable around you? They are easy to tell, they are the ones who are looking right at you with that weird expression like they dont want to look, but cant help it. So your answer then is to go concealed? So people feel better? Huh...

Maybe a better answer is to OC and set a positive example for everyone? Maybe show some on-the-fence people that we are just people, not "gun people"?

Maybe, in the grand scheme of things, the way we, the gun enthusiasts who want to protect our gun rights should concentrate on positive example and education rather than just hiding our weapons in shame or fear that we might make someone nervous?

[sniper7]

If he had a valid CCW permit and was completely co-operative, I fail to understand WHY he was arrested and his property seized "as evidence." He should have been refunded his money and asked to leave and possibly written an appearance ticket. Since the officers instead chose to arrest him the city can face a lawsuit for false arrest and possibly malicious prosecution if the DA wants to pursue it.

That being said, he should have expected that open carrying a pistol into a theater so soon after the incident in Aurora would've alarmed people. Evacuating all the theaters and making a reverse 911 call seems a bit extreme though.

Maybe it was his retirement plan?

[Chief_of_Scouts]

I have been lurking this thread and I decided to do my own research on this alleged violation of the law.

I read the City of Thornton Code, specifically the cited code he was arrested for: Sec. 38-237. - Dangerous weapons. I am not a lawyer or certified law enforcement officer, but with my basic understanding of the English language, I cannot find any part of the cited code that he violated.

Even if I tried to connect the dots of:

Sec. 38-237 (a) Firearm means any handgun, automatic, revolver, pistol, rifle, shotgun, or other instrument or device capable of or intended to be capable of discharging bullets, cartridges or other explosive charges, excluding gas guns, as defined in Section 38-239 (http://library.municode.com/HTML/15041/level4/CO_CH38LAENOFTR_ARTVIIOFAGPUPESA_DIV2WE.html#CO_CH 38LAENOFTR_ARTVIIOFAGPUPESA_DIV2WE_S38-239PRWE)(a).

and

Sec. 38-237 (b) (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly possess on or about the person or within such person's immediate reach any dangerous weapon.

there is this

Sec. 38-237 (d) Exceptions. The prohibitions contained in subsection (b)(1) of this section shall not apply to:
Sec. 38-237 (d) (4) A person issued a written permit to carry a concealed handgun issued by any sheriff authorized to issue such permits within the state and the carrying of such weapon is within the terms of such permit.

I am sure someone on these forums or more familiar with Colorado firearms laws can explain what I am missing here.

http://library.municode.com/HTML/15041/level4/CO_CH38LAENOFTR_ARTVIIOFAGPUPESA_DIV2WE.html#CO_CH 38LAENOFTR_ARTVIIOFAGPUPESA_DIV2WE_S38-237DAWE

[Byte Stryke]

OK So I normally OC of Late... How long?

6 Months?


4 Years?


why don't I just cave like most on this board have...

you are saying GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS because someone might not like it

and No, Verbally Insulting someone is "not like" carrying OC...




as far as it costing him "huge money" I REALLY doubt it as the lawyers can smell a winning lawsuit 500 miles away.

Its going to cost you.

[josh7328]

Just because someone feels scared or threatened does not mean anyone else's rights should be violated. Given the fact he had a CCW, it may have been better to go about his business that way. If he did not have one I fully support him. I am in the middle on this one, given the recent theater shooting, but I am in no way saying he should give up his rights or for any of us to give up our rights. My issue is that he had a concealed carry permit and he wasn't using it. That shows me he wanted to make a scene and see whether or not he would be called out on it. He was, he got arrested and now I hope he gets paid dearly for it so some knowledge gets translated to people, businesses, police, .gov etc.

The issue with that will be the backlash from those same people that gain some knowledge on the subject. Now that theater will most certainly have a no firearms sign so future OC will not be permitted and the employees will be trained to look for OC. The police will learn the laws so that is a positive. The state .gov may get enough of a response, especially in light of the recent theater shootings to make a change in the law which could possibly eliminate OC all together or restrict it further.

I side with those who say no rights should be given up ever, no matter what the tragedy or situation. But given the fact this guy had a CCW and chose to OC as a way of expressing his rights is the reason he ended up arrested and not enjoying a movie without any problems.
This. [Beer]

[DOC]

I'm not going there anymore. No guns. Makes it sound to dangerous for me and my family.
And I liked that place. Even though the movies I seen there were crap and I wanted my money back. I thought they were onto something.
I think he was within his rights.
Let me see ", the right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed." I'm no legal scholar like our president but I think if he wanted to open carry all the theater could do was ask him to leave and the police could do nothing but comply with what the scared little bitches in the theater wanted. Giving him a ticket is like asking Rosa Parks to get to the back of the bus or be arrested. IMHO.

[buffalobo]

I think a large majority of us agree that one would have made a difference in the Aurora theater. A gun. Even better, several guns.

After this ordeal do you think a victims family would care how it was carried if they knew it might save them or the loved one lost?

[Byte Stryke]

I'm not going there anymore. No guns. Makes it sound to dangerous for me and my family.
And I liked that place. Even though the movies I seen there were crap and I wanted my money back. I thought they were onto something.
I think he was within his rights.
Let me see ", the right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed." I'm no legal scholar like our president but I think if he wanted to open carry all the theater could do was ask him to leave and the police could do nothing but comply with what the scared little bitches in the theater wanted. Giving him a ticket is like asking Rosa Parks to get to the back of the bus or be arrested. IMHO.



She was another one that was just out to cause trouble...
She should have been considerate of others and just gotten in the back!
[/sarcasm]

[Whistler]

She was another one that was just out to cause trouble...
She should have been considerate of others and just gotten in the back!
[/sarcasm]

Ha! Think of all those poor people that were inconvenienced while she "made her point" damned inconsiderate and insensitive I say.

[10mm-man]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Movie-Theaters-who-dont-support-2A/441509032556461

Let's see how many likes nation wide we can get........ Then maybe we can make a difference, once the movie theaters get the idea....

Just a thought...

[airborneranger]

OK So I normally OC of Late... How long?

6 Months?


4 Years?


why don't I just cave like most on this board have...

you are saying GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS because someone might not like it

and No, Verbally Insulting someone is "not like" carrying OC...




as far as it costing him "huge money" I REALLY doubt it as the lawyers can smell a winning lawsuit 500 miles away.

Its going to cost you.

I missed out on this thread but I certainly agree with you on this Byte. I have my CCW but lately I have been carrying open because it is my right to do so. If a business does not like it, then I take my business elsewhere.

[Beer]

[Ronin13]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Movie-Theaters-who-dont-support-2A/441509032556461

Let's see how many likes nation wide we can get........ Then maybe we can make a difference, once the movie theaters get the idea....

Just a thought...

Liked and shared!

It seems there are two schools of thought on this and let's address this issue with cool, calm, and collected rational heads, shall we?
Group A says: "OC is a right, we should be allowed to exercise it regardless of how others 'feel'."
Group B says: "Yes, OC is a right, we should exercise our rights, but sometimes the sheep get scared when they see the sheepdog has teeth, so maybe the sheepdog, in some cases, should keep his teeth hidden until they are needed to protect the sheep."

Still with me here?
I think the masses are fearful, stupid, and don't realize that 9 times out of 10 you won't know a criminal is armed until it's too late. If you see a gun openly displayed, then there is a very good chance it's not a bad guy and they mean you no harm. HOWEVER... the masses, again, are fvcking stupid, and they'll cause a fuss over your OCing, thus adding to the stigma "another nut carrying a gun!" Yes they need to be educated. I support OC, I do it from time to time, but from a tactical standpoint, I'd rather have the element of surprise on my side and not be the "target" for an aggressor- I'd rather him not know I'm carrying until it's sending lead his way or being pressed against his head with the demand that he drop his gun and get on the ground. [Beer]
YMMV, MTFBWY.

[10mm-man]

I support OC, I do it from time to time, but from a tactical standpoint, I'd rather have the element of surprise on my side and not be the "target" for an aggressor- I'd rather him not know I'm carrying until it's sending lead his way or being pressed against his head with the demand that hey drop his gun and get on the ground. [Beer]
YMMV, MTFBWY.

^^^^^ [Beer]

[kanekutter05]

YMMV, MTFBWY.

I am only 25...but I feel old because I had to google what the hell those two acronyms were [Beer]

[10mm-man]

http://www.tonysrants.com/thornton/second-amendment-battle-comes-to-thornton-following-century-16-shooting/

This link explains a lot about this case.

Looks like he was working towards his retirement and just got it- Civil Lawsuit coming I am sure...

[Whistler]

Liked and shared!

It seems there are two schools of thought on this and let's address this issue with cool, calm, and collected rational heads, shall we?
Group A says: "OC is a right, we should be allowed to exercise it regardless of how others 'feel'."
Group B says: "Yes, OC is a right, we should exercise our rights, but sometimes the sheep get scared when they see the sheepdog has teeth, so maybe the sheepdog, in some cases, should keep his teeth hidden until they are needed to protect the sheep."

Still with me here?
I think the masses are fearful, stupid, and don't realize that 9 times out of 10 you won't know a criminal is armed until it's too late. If you see a gun openly displayed, then there is a very good chance it's not a bad guy and they mean you no harm. HOWEVER... the masses, again, are fvcking stupid, and they'll cause a fuss over your OCing, thus adding to the stigma "another nut carrying a gun!" Yes they need to be educated. I support OC, I do it from time to time, but from a tactical standpoint, I'd rather have the element of surprise on my side and not be the "target" for an aggressor- I'd rather him not know I'm carrying until it's sending lead his way or being pressed against his head with the demand that he drop his gun and get on the ground. [Beer]
YMMV, MTFBWY.

You lost me Ronin...

We should not OC so that the "sheep" don't mistake us for a criminal but you also say "9 times out of 10 you won't know a criminal is armed until it's too late" which would imply criminals CC but the sheep would be scared if you OC and think you a criminal but then if you CC....

Why should their feelings be any more important than mine? If I decide camo hurts my feelings or makes me afraid are you going to stop wearing camo?!? Of course not you're going to tell me don't look or get over my whiny-ass self. Ridiculous example yes but no less germane.

I'm completely lost on the idea that a criminal (aggressor) or anyone sane would target an obviously armed individual and I think I call BS on that one. The value proposition changes when you have to risk your life.

I'm still chewing on the "tactical advantage" considering I'm seldom (well never actually) in any situation that could be remotely considered "tactical".

I'm afraid I simply don't agree OC should be avoided at costs because it might raise the ire of the antis and prompt them to call for greater restrictions. Mostly because they are going to do that anyway. If you shy from the confrontation you lend legitimacy "if it's not wrong why are you hiding?", change your own behavior as evidenced by this thread "oh noes them sheeps is looking at me!" and you further the already held perception OC is not needed. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it may provide MORE fodder to the antis that gun owners agree with them OC "makes people uncomfortable" or is unnecessary if you hold a CHP.

If I OC or CC I am doing nothing wrong and letting them change or even influence my decision gives them power. They are going to fight to ban guns forever no matter what so fight to keep them! Don't give in to the pressure, it's tough to stand for something.

[Squeeze]

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i445/TangoDownPro/NewsDocument.jpg

Above is the article. This is one of the reasons why I am NOT an "OC" fan. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I know I am beating a dead horse here and it's all ready been mentioned 100 times...but here it is: concealed gives me the element of surprise and opportunity to act rather than being the gunman's first victim.

Now, I don't condone how LE treated this guy and I hope the charges get dropped, however; this was a really stupid move on his part. He has a CCW, so why OC in a theater with the recent tragedy still an open wound to Colorado? Really dumb move. Rant over.

[Whistler]

I think this gentleman said it more eloquently than I could hope to;


Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event.


’Tis a strange species of generosity which requires a return infinitely more valuable than anything it could have bestowed; that demands as a reward for a defense of our property a surrender of those inestimable privileges, to the arbitrary will of vindictive tyrants, which alone give value to that very property.

[tonantius]

I read through all of this thread. Whew! Long thread. I think it is great that everyone can state their opinions. Now I will take a stab at it.

First off, the freaking public regardless of the timing should not freak out when someone open carries and it is properly holstered. We have too many New Yorkers and Californicators here that are trying to mess up our western heritage.

Yes, I do not normally OC except at the range, or hunting, or at home. I usually CCW to keep the sheeple from freaking out. But they OC all the time in Arizona and no one freaks out. We need the same attitude here.

I commend Maples for being brave enough to do it. He is trying to make a point. I hope he had a legal strategy in mind.

Yes, others screwed up California. But California has been lost for awhile and there is no hope to get it back. Colorado is moving down the same road if we keep electing democrats to office. Stop it! If you are not registered to vote, get registered and get your friends to do the same. Vote for the leading true gun-friendly candidate.

Thanks

[meuxse]

Looks like he was working towards his retirement and just got it- Civil Lawsuit coming I am sure...

Well at least he was taken into custody without incident. I hope that gets mentioned more. Without incident. He certainly wasn't a "gun nut" out of control.

[SuperiorDG]

Those are some mighty big words there.


I think this gentleman said it more eloquently than I could hope to;

Quote:
Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event.

Quote:
’Tis a strange species of generosity which requires a return infinitely more valuable than anything it could have bestowed; that demands as a reward for a defense of our property a surrender of those inestimable privileges, to the arbitrary will of vindictive tyrants, which alone give value to that very property.

[Whistler]

Those are some mighty big words there.



Quote:
Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event.

Quote:
’Tis a strange species of generosity which requires a return infinitely more valuable than anything it could have bestowed; that demands as a reward for a defense of our property a surrender of those inestimable privileges, to the arbitrary will of vindictive tyrants, which alone give value to that very property.

He was a smart guy [Roll1]

[cofi]

really crappy that they confiscated his pistol while they figure out what they are going to do.....so much for innocent untill proven guilty

[cwripinz]

I applaud his actions. Too bad the sheeple freaked out. Perhaps if the responding LEO's were to verify that he:

A) Did not threaten anyone
B) ...well, there is no B. If no one was threatened then it should have ended right then and there. This is just bad LEO training and will be shown to be such in subsequent litigation.

Your car is old & ugly... it frightens me. Should this be justification for the police to impound it & arrest you? No.

Your dog is big & looks like it could be mean... it frightens me. Should this be justification for the police to have your dog put down & you arrested? No.

Just because OC is rare, it is still a right. Thomas, you are dead wrong on this one. When our rights are under the most scrutiny, that is exactly when they should... no, make that MUST be exercised. This is when they are most under threat and likely to be subverted.

I live in the Peoples Republic of Denver and I discuss the shame of the "home rule" determination & push for the OC Ban to be repealed EVERY DAY... Without Exception... Irrespective of the latest atrocity carried out by some nut-job on the peace loving folk of my Nation. People keep asking me, "If you feel that way, why not just move?" Answer: Because if I do, then "they" win... and this fight ain't over.

Anybody know where I can contribute to Mr. Mapes Legal Fund?

[Bailey Guns]

I've read all the responses and comments in this thread. I am really saddened, though not too surprised, by those who think Mapes acted inappropriately.

It's legal to do what he did, regardless of whether or not anyone believes he used poor judgment or discretion. The only reason this incident happened is because someone freaked out at the sight of a gun. A legal gun. A holstered gun. A safe gun. A gun carried by a man who was, by all accounts, not acting any differently than any of the other moviegoers with the exception that he chose to take responsibility for his own safety and was exercising a Constitutional right.

For those who think he used poor judgment then please tell me: at what point does exercising a God-given right constitute using poor judgment? At what point should we choose not to protect ourselves for fear of offending others? Because those are the only two arguments I've seen. I'd really like to know how much liberty I need to sacrifice in order for some of you to feel comfortable.

It brings to mind the old argument hashed and re-hashed right on this forum from those who would have more strict, government mandated training standards in place for issuance of a concealed handgun permit. Their only argument is they "feel" the need for people to have more training. They "feel" unsafe knowing there are people in the wild carrying concealed handguns who only have a minimal amount of training. No one has yet been able to produce a tangible, verifiable argument that the standards in place put anyone in real danger.

Well, for whatever it's worth, I don't think the guy did anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I commend him for taking responsibility for his own safety. I commend him for exercising his second amendment rights and refuse to condemn him for any perceived lack of proper discretion or judgment.

Furthermore, any condemnation from me will be directed towards the Thornton PD officers involved for violating this man's freedom. It's appalling to think they had to fabricate a charge in order to arrest this man. It's more appalling that the city attorney hasn't put this no-brainer to bed and had the PD issue a statement that no charges will be filed and Mapes' (illegally) confiscated and legally possessed property with be returned to him forthwith.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "Thornton! You got some 'splaining to do."

[Whistler]

They will probably charge this guy with "flourishing" under Municode 38-237 by applying it to mean simply displaying it at a theater while people are hyper-sensitive especially in that locale that he knew or should have known displaying the weapon would cause alarm.

I think it's a distortion but the fact they charged him under that code leads me to believe that is their plan.


It shall be unlawful for any person to display or flourish a dangerous weapon, firearm, air gun, bludgeon, chemical agent or slingshot in a manner calculated to alarm another person.

[Bailey Guns]

Good luck with that since his gun was never out of the holster. To "flourish" usually means to make obvious or animated gestures in order to draw attention.

[Squeeze]

I am really hopeful these charges get dropped. Even though I don't agree with this guy doing what he did. Not saying people shouldn't be allowed to OC, but in a theater...our city is still recovering from the massive wound caused by the Aurora shooting. If you OC in a theater tomorrow and truly expect a different outcome than what happened to Mr. Mapes in this incident, you would be a fool. Sheeple are scared of the gun-carrying community as it is. You want to open carry? Fine, pick somewhere other than a theater to do it. Want to go to a movie? Great, then CC. Give the gun fearing Sheeple time to calm down just a bit. The firearms community really doesn't need negative media right now. The anti-gunners are looking for any reason they can to gather information to further their cause. It sucks any way you slice it. Mapes was doing nothing wrong - legally - yet the Thornton Police went after him with claws & teeth out. Now, he's going to be hemmed up in court, having to retain a lawyer, spend a considerable amount of money just to prove it is OUR Constitutional right. I really hope Mapes comes out of this unscathed, but I'm not so sure. [Shake]

[10mm-man]

I've read all the responses and comments in this thread. I am really saddened, though not too surprised, by those who think Mapes acted inappropriately.

It's legal to do what he did, regardless of whether or not anyone believes he used poor judgment or discretion. The only reason this incident happened is because someone freaked out at the sight of a gun. A legal gun. A holstered gun. A safe gun. A gun carried by a man who was, by all accounts, not acting any differently than any of the other moviegoers with the exception that he chose to take responsibility for his own safety and was exercising a Constitutional right.

For those who think he used poor judgment then please tell me: at what point does exercising a God-given right constitute using poor judgment? At what point should we choose not to protect ourselves for fear of offending others? Because those are the only two arguments I've seen. I'd really like to know how much liberty I need to sacrifice in order for some of you to feel comfortable.

It brings to mind the old argument hashed and re-hashed right on this forum from those who would have more strict, government mandated training standards in place for issuance of a concealed handgun permit. Their only argument is they "feel" the need for people to have more training. They "feel" unsafe knowing there are people in the wild carrying concealed handguns who only have a minimal amount of training. No one has yet been able to produce a tangible, verifiable argument that the standards in place put anyone in real danger.

Well, for whatever it's worth, I don't think the guy did anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I commend him for taking responsibility for his own safety. I commend him for exercising his second amendment rights and refuse to condemn him for any perceived lack of proper discretion or judgment.

Furthermore, any condemnation from me will be directed towards the Thornton PD officers involved for violating this man's freedom. It's appalling to think they had to fabricate a charge in order to arrest this man. It's more appalling that the city attorney hasn't put this no-brainer to bed and had the PD issue a statement that no charges will be filed and Mapes' (illegally) confiscated and legally possessed property with be returned to him forthwith.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "Thornton! You got some 'splaining to do."

THIS!! +1

[10mm-man]

They are going to fight to ban guns forever no matter what so fight to keep them! Don't give in to the pressure, it's tough to stand for something.

Agree

[10mm-man]

Well at least he was taken into custody without incident. I hope that gets mentioned more. Without incident. He certainly wasn't a "gun nut" out of control.

Great Point!

[sellersm]

Here's my two cents... A big part of the 'argument/discussion' here is because of what's known as "outcome-based" decision making. It's been taught the past few decades, it's everywhere in our country now. Bottom-line is that we make choices based on the outcome of that choice. Sounds good, right? Gosh, we don't want to <fill in the outcome>, so we better not <fill in action>.

Somewhere along the line, our country adopted this 'new' way of thinking (it existed before post-modernism), and it's completely contrary to the process of decision-making that was used by our Founders.

For me, I make decisions based on what is RIGHT and WRONG. I have rights and I'll make choices based on those rights, not the perceived outcomes of exercising those rights. Look back in history and see where we'd be if our "heroes" made choices based on the outcome instead of on what's right.

As I posted in another thread about pics on FB, should we not let the sun shine today because 70 people were sunburned yesterday?

If we let the perceived outcome of our choice dictate our choices, then we're in trouble, and I'm very grateful to those in our past that did not.

Just my few tuppence...

[SuperiorDG]

I've read all the responses and comments in this thread. I am really saddened, though not too surprised, by those who think Mapes acted inappropriately.

It's legal to do what he did, regardless of whether or not anyone believes he used poor judgment or discretion. The only reason this incident happened is because someone freaked out at the sight of a gun. A legal gun. A holstered gun. A safe gun. A gun carried by a man who was, by all accounts, not acting any differently than any of the other moviegoers with the exception that he chose to take responsibility for his own safety and was exercising a Constitutional right.

For those who think he used poor judgment then please tell me: at what point does exercising a God-given right constitute using poor judgment? At what point should we choose not to protect ourselves for fear of offending others? Because those are the only two arguments I've seen. I'd really like to know how much liberty I need to sacrifice in order for some of you to feel comfortable.

It brings to mind the old argument hashed and re-hashed right on this forum from those who would have more strict, government mandated training standards in place for issuance of a concealed handgun permit. Their only argument is they "feel" the need for people to have more training. They "feel" unsafe knowing there are people in the wild carrying concealed handguns who only have a minimal amount of training. No one has yet been able to produce a tangible, verifiable argument that the standards in place put anyone in real danger.

Well, for whatever it's worth, I don't think the guy did anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I commend him for taking responsibility for his own safety. I commend him for exercising his second amendment rights and refuse to condemn him for any perceived lack of proper discretion or judgment.

Furthermore, any condemnation from me will be directed towards the Thornton PD officers involved for violating this man's freedom. It's appalling to think they had to fabricate a charge in order to arrest this man. It's more appalling that the city attorney hasn't put this no-brainer to bed and had the PD issue a statement that no charges will be filed and Mapes' (illegally) confiscated and legally possessed property with be returned to him forthwith.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "Thornton! You got some 'splaining to do."

Okay now I'm off the fence (I was leaning this way more predominately) and with you Bailey. Perhaps after the theaters were emptied out by the manager the LEO didn't have the balls to do what was right. The mob ruled the day. I hope he/she learns from this and does not do it again in the future.

[TFOGGER]

I can't dispute Mapes right to do what he did. I think the theater manager overreacted, and the actions of the Thornton police were definitely out of line. In light of the lawsuits following the Aurora shooting. the theater manager probably felt he was erring on the side of caution by calling the police. I blame the police for 1) Not knowing the law, 2)over reacting and blowing the incident completely out of proportion.

All of that being said, I'll continue to conceal. I see no reason to attract undue attention to myself, nor give up a significant tactical advantage.

[Byte Stryke]

I'm just glad I got out of Coloradofornia before you guys rolled over...

[10mm-man]

I'm just glad I got out of Coloradofornia before you guys rolled over...

I'm starting to feel this site as been rolled over by libs.... I'm gonna get out too!!

[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]

[Byte Stryke]

Sad part is that I moved to a state with No Constitutional Open carry
You have to have a Permit to carry AT ALL.
We just repealed the "public gathering and restaurant" clauses that prohibited carry at any public gathering or any establishment that serves alcohol(TGI Fridays, Hooters, etc).
Before you say CCW means Concealed, getting caught means 5-10 Felony and Permanent No 2a
We are working on the right to carry in Church as allowed by the church owner.
Currently, it doesn't matter if Christ appears and grants permission, it's illegal in GA to carry onto any property whose primary purpose is religious worship.


I guess it's true, you don't know what you have until its gone...

[tmckay2]

to OPEN carry in a theater in this neck of the woods this soon after such a tragedy is a whole new level of stupid and i have no sympathy for anyone dumb enough to do that. exercising your right doesn't mean being a complete idiot. you have to know thats going to get a rise out of people and i honestly don't blame them, people are scared enough to even go to a movie right now let alone with a guy who has a pistol on his hip, especially when the management and most of the theater attendees are likely not gun owners and don't know the laws. i mean come on, thats just retarded.

[Bailey Guns]

to OPEN carry in a theater in this neck of the woods this soon after such a tragedy is a whole new level of stupid and i have no sympathy for anyone dumb enough to do that. exercising your right doesn't mean being a complete idiot. you have to know thats going to get a rise out of people and i honestly don't blame them, people are scared enough to even go to a movie right now let alone with a guy who has a pistol on his hip, especially when the management and most of the theater attendees are likely not gun owners and don't know the laws. i mean come on, thats just retarded.

Yeah, you're right. What else can we give up to make non-gun owners feel more comfortable?

Stupid, dumb, idiot, retarded gun owners.

[jslo]

Would be interesting to know how the other movie goers felt. Myself, I probably would have sat close to this guy.

[O2HeN2]

For me, I make decisions based on what is RIGHT and WRONG.
Excellent point.

Personally, I think we need to shut down this site since it's logo is a picture of the rifle that was used in Aurora, as is its name. A year or two should suffice. After all, we need to be sensitive.

Again, I am dismayed at the replies. I am convinced now that we shall all hang separately (http://quotationsbook.com/quote/40300/).

O2

[O2HeN2]

I am really hopeful these charges get dropped.
They won't be dropped, no matter how ridiculous they may be. To do so at this point will make a lawsuit against Thornton too easy to win. The DA will press on, knowing full well he'll lose, but will make appearances that s/he (have no idea) believed that the charges were applicable in order to "protect" both the DA's office and the police officers.

What this means is that it's going to cost thousands to fight the charges, thousands to sue the city and the city will pay more because it went too far. Final loser: the residents of Thornton.

O2

[Chad4000]

Same team guys ;)

[sneakerd]

If everyone agreed- or there was "consensus", this forum would be boring.

[TFOGGER]

They won't be dropped, no matter how ridiculous they may be. To do so at this point will make a lawsuit against Thornton too easy to win. The DA will press on, knowing full well he'll lose, but will make appearances that s/he (have no idea) believed that the charges were applicable in order to "protect" both the DA's office and the police officers.

What this means is that it's going to cost thousands to fight the charges, thousands to sue the city and the city will pay more because it went too far. Final loser: the residents of Thornton.

O2

And the only winners are the lawyers...

[tmckay2]

Yeah, you're right. What else can we give up to make non-gun owners feel more comfortable?

Stupid, dumb, idiot, retarded gun owners.

You really think its a good idea to waltz into a movie theater with open carry a week or so after one of the worst massacres in US history which happened just down the road? Give me a break, this isn't about the law or changing the rules forever this is about using the brain god gave you. If you absolutely can't go to the movies without showing your heat then wait until things cool down. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you get to throw all common sense out the window and not expect bad things to happen. The vast majority of citizens know nothing about guns or about the laws regarding guns. They do know 70 people were shot a little over a week ago in a theater. Hell even I would have a hard time focusing on te movie if I saw that. I don't know that guy, maybe he's as crazy as Holmes. Had it happened a month ago I would have thought nothing of it, but this event has even me a bit on edge of people with guns that I don't know.

It's not like we are calling for the laws to change or for this guy to be unjustly prosecuted for acting within the law. However, if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. People in this area, and even the country, are goin to need some time to heal from this tragedy. Gun owners can use their brain and be thoughtful in their actions, especially during this time. Shit like this just makes fun owners look like people who only care about their right to bear arms and nothing else, basically playing right into the liberal fear mongrring anti gun crowds hands.

[Ashton]

Poor judgement IMHO.

[tmckay2]

Sure I'll give you an example. Westboro baptist church. They hae a god given right to free speech. Exercising that at a funeral of a dead soldier with the mourning family standing right there MIGHT be a poor time to exercise such a right. It isn't illegal, but it is insensitive. If they then showed shock at how others reacted to them, such as some here are in shock people had a problem with this guy open carrying in a theater a week after a massacre at a theater, then I would say to them as i say here, use common sense and decency. Sometimes that means sucking it up ad not exercising a right out of respect for others until the appropriate time. FYI, there are thousands of other examples of times we have rights but show poor judgement by exercising them at certain times and places. Doesn't mean he's wrong and should thus be put in jail, it just means he's an idiot for what he did, whether it's in his right or not.


I've read all the responses and comments in this thread. I am really saddened, though not too surprised, by those who think Mapes acted inappropriately.

It's legal to do what he did, regardless of whether or not anyone believes he used poor judgment or discretion. The only reason this incident happened is because someone freaked out at the sight of a gun. A legal gun. A holstered gun. A safe gun. A gun carried by a man who was, by all accounts, not acting any differently than any of the other moviegoers with the exception that he chose to take responsibility for his own safety and was exercising a Constitutional right.

For those who think he used poor judgment then please tell me: at what point does exercising a God-given right constitute using poor judgment? At what point should we choose not to protect ourselves for fear of offending others? Because those are the only two arguments I've seen. I'd really like to know how much liberty I need to sacrifice in order for some of you to feel comfortable.

It brings to mind the old argument hashed and re-hashed right on this forum from those who would have more strict, government mandated training standards in place for issuance of a concealed handgun permit. Their only argument is they "feel" the need for people to have more training. They "feel" unsafe knowing there are people in the wild carrying concealed handguns who only have a minimal amount of training. No one has yet been able to produce a tangible, verifiable argument that the standards in place put anyone in real danger.

Well, for whatever it's worth, I don't think the guy did anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I commend him for taking responsibility for his own safety. I commend him for exercising his second amendment rights and refuse to condemn him for any perceived lack of proper discretion or judgment.

Furthermore, any condemnation from me will be directed towards the Thornton PD officers involved for violating this man's freedom. It's appalling to think they had to fabricate a charge in order to arrest this man. It's more appalling that the city attorney hasn't put this no-brainer to bed and had the PD issue a statement that no charges will be filed and Mapes' (illegally) confiscated and legally possessed property with be returned to him forthwith.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "Thornton! You got some 'splaining to do."

[tmckay2]

Here's another. Days after 911 a group of Muslim men now in prayer right before boarding the flight an right in front of everyone. Within their right, yes. Good idea? No. If they are then surprised when people are frightened I say again, common sense. It's a beautiful thing.

[sneakerd]

I completely agree with tmckay2.

[00tec]

Hey, if you guys want to lay down and give up your rights for the sake of being PC, go right ahead. I will not.

[mtik00]

I'm with the "common sense" side of the argument.

Like or not, we live in a country where much of the population is ignorant about firearms and think we're a bunch of gun tot'n rednecks. Open carry is likely to get you trouble, regardless of whether or not you were within your legal right.

[kanekutter05]

Hey, if you guys want to lay down and give up your rights for the sake of being PC, go right ahead. I will not.

+1.

[JoeT]

I'm just wondering... will you guys tell me when it's a good time to protect my family again? I don't want to offend anyone, you know some guy shot some people...


For Christsakes, I'm the transplant from the Uber Liberal Peoples Republic of Massachusetts... how can it be that I'm one of the few defending this guy's rights? He committed no crime, didn't hurt anyone (or attempt to), but some people got butt-hurt because some other people got shot 20 miles away a week ago... If it was 100 miles would it be "ok" ? 200? 1000? another country?

I didn't live here when Columbine happened, but it still amazes me how many gun owners "caved" on gun rights after it happened. Please guys decide now what rights you're willing to give away so it's over quick and easy for the antis, all because it happened close to home. I guess I just expected better from "gun guys" in he South West.

[sneakerd]

I want to know how many of you guys who support OC at the theater man will go and do the exact same thing this weekend? You know- in order to show you are good guys and not weak-kneed roll-over wanna-be gun rights activists. Come on- how about a head count?

[meuxse]

I want to know how many of you guys who support OC at the theater man will go and do the exact same thing this weekend? You know- in order to show you are good guys and not weak-kneed roll-over wanna-be gun rights activists. Come on- how about a head count?

Went to smiths grocery and got dinner stuff and walked dogs while OC. Nothing new in my neighborhood. I don't leave the house without it. Keys, wallet, self defense, check.

[sneakerd]

I challenge you to go to a local theater. Where-ever you are- and OC. I'll bet money you won't. Not some little local "smiths" grocery no one has ever heard of. On the other hand, Pleasant Grove, Utah is not a suburb of Denver, CO where 70-some people were shot at a local theater last week. Don't really know what goes on in your neck of the woods.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

Hey, if you guys want to lay down and give up your rights for the sake of being PC, go right ahead. I will not.

The flaw with this way of thinking is that if everyone else gives up their rights, for whatever the reason, you will lose yours.

[meuxse]

I challenge you to go to a local theater. Where-ever you are- and OC. I'll bet money you won't. Not some little local "smiths" grocery no one has ever heard of.

Smiths is actually a nationwide store under the Kroger umbrella. Just in case you were curious. Also, like I said, I don't leave home without it. Soooo, basically I GO EVERYWHERE with it. And yes, that includes movie theaters. I dare you to OC anywhere. Hell you don't even need to leave your property. Just mow your lawn while you OC.

[Fentonite]

I don't think anyone here is advocating that we give up our rights. They're just advocating tact. I will still carry CONCEALED all the time, anywhere I go. I don't see a point in OC'ing, when it may actually be counter-productive to our agenda (at least, not if you have a CWP). Especially when it seems that some folks want to OC just to make a point. I will continue to CC, and do not feel that I'm losing any rights by doing so (won't get into the debate of CC vs OC, thats a different thread). I'm not gonna build a bonfire outside a wake for burn victims. Not gonna fly remote-control airplanes at a memorial service for the dead from a plane crash. We all abhor the morons who built a mosque at Ground Zero. It's just a matter of tact. I'm not giving up any rights. I've served, both in our military and in law enforcement, to preserve our rights. And while I do not think it is sensible to OC at a theater right now, I will still support your right to do so. To imply that my choice (to do what I consider sensible) is somehow treasonous to our cause, is ignorant.

[sneakerd]

Fair enough. What is the population of Pleasant Grove , Utah and was there a mass murder there at a theater a little over a week ago? By the way, I did OC at my local grocery store with an empty holster while my pistol was in my Maxpedition bag after work the other day. Nothing happened.


By the way- I have no need to OC, as I have a CCW and a man-purse!

[meuxse]

Fair enough. What is the population of Pleasant Grove , Utah and was there a mass murder there at a theater a little over a week ago? By the way, I did OC at my local grocery store with an empty holster while my pistol was in my Maxpedition bag after work the other day. Nothing happened.

34,000 as of the July 2011 census. Versus 5,222 in edge water Colorado for the same census month and year. Point?

[sneakerd]

Come on dude. Edgewater is a bordering suburb of Denver, as is Aurora. I work in Aurora. Emotions are very high in this area after the shooting. How hard is that to understand?

[meuxse]

I also have a CCP. Got it more for the education that comes with it and the fewer restrictions for carry. I can OC two actions from firing. Or round chambered. OC only and no CCP has to be two actions from firing. No round in chamber.

[dwalker460]

I live in Aurora, and I go armed... because tension is high. How hard is that to understand?

[J]

meuxse:

I respect your opinions and views here, I really do. To avoid looking like you are here only to stir up this thread, can I suggest you involve yourself in other threads and topics on this site?

[sneakerd]

Sounds a bit funky. We have no such restrictions. Still- it sounds like you live in a kind of small town very far away from here. Probably a great place to live. It's likely a little different here a little over a week after a mass murder. That's my only point with you. I'm still waiting for the local headcount of people who will OC at a theater around here this coming weekend to show their support for Thornton OC man. Don't think I'm going to get any takers.

[meuxse]

meuxse:

I respect your opinions and views here, I really do. To avoid looking like you are here only to stir up this thread, can I suggest you involve yourself in other threads and topics on this site?

Sorry to come across as a stirrer. I happened on this site through the Utah concealed carry site. The only thread that isn't about "post whores" or "is this site legit" or "what are your mods" or any others that don't really apply to me is this one. I am not trying to cause problems. Just trying to defend OC from going away anywhere. First it goes, then the "assault rifles" or anything that looks like one, then my handgun. Ugly road we head down when we roll over, even if only for a minute. Doesn't take much to lose what we aren't willing to constantly and consistently defend. It is much easier when we restrict it ourselves for them to relinquish us of them. I understand the sensitive situation there. How could we not?

[pickenup]

I also have a CCP. Got it more for the education that comes with it
Education is never a bad thing.

[J]

Sorry to come across as a stirrer. I happened on this site through the Utah concealed carry site. The only thread that isn't about "post whores" or "is this site legit" or "what are your mods" or any others that don't really apply to me is this one. I am not trying to cause problems. Just trying to defend OC from going away anywhere. First it goes, then the "assault rifles" or anything that looks like one, then my handgun. Ugly road we head down when we roll over, even if only for a minute. Doesn't take much to lose what we aren't willing to constantly and consistently defend. It is much easier when we restrict it ourselves for them to relinquish us of them. I understand the sensitive situation there. How could we not?

I agree completely. Hopefully, if you look past general discussion (our off topic area), you will find some more worth-while topics here that you can contribute too, in addition to this one. I know I certainly do. If it wasn't clear, I am NOT asking you to stop posting in this thread, not the point I am making.

[Armada]

I posted on another thread about business's not CCW friendly. I have a few credit card receipts from this place. Never carried in there, used to be safe to see a movie. The staff seems scatter-brained and the poorest customer service you could ever expect for high priced items. They serve alcohol and the staff must be drinking and smoking backstage. Burnt food, the wrong check, staff just scratching their heads at simple requests. I agree this guy used bad judgement, but maybe this poor excuse for a business will get less income from this incident. Or maybe more? now that it's safe. Vote with you dollar.

[Byte Stryke]

Maybe if you start carrying them EMPTY it'll be OK....





[Bang]

[Bailey Guns]

I challenge you to go to a local theater. Where-ever you are- and OC. I'll bet money you won't. Not some little local "smiths" grocery no one has ever heard of. On the other hand, Pleasant Grove, Utah is not a suburb of Denver, CO where 70-some people were shot at a local theater last week. Don't really know what goes on in your neck of the woods.

Challenge all you want.

I don't smoke. Never have, never will. But there have been several cities, even the state, enacting smoking bans...even on private property. Even though I'm a non-smoker I still supported the right of a business owner to allow smoking in their establishments, on their private property. Didn't mean I had to run over there and light up a cigarette.

I don't hunt any longer. I got to the point where it bothered me to kill an animal. But I still support the rights of those who do hunt. It doesn't mean I have to go out, get a tag and shoot an animal.

Your "challenge" is simply ridiculous. I don't OC anywhere because I choose to carry concealed everywhere. Just because I support Mapes' actions doesn't mean I have to run out into the world and mimic his actions.


You really think its a good idea to waltz into a movie theater with open carry a week or so after one of the worst massacres in US history which happened just down the road? Give me a break, this isn't about the law or changing the rules forever this is about using the brain god gave you. If you absolutely can't go to the movies without showing your heat then wait until things cool down. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you get to throw all common sense out the window and not expect bad things to happen. The vast majority of citizens know nothing about guns or about the laws regarding guns. They do know 70 people were shot a little over a week ago in a theater. Hell even I would have a hard time focusing on te movie if I saw that. I don't know that guy, maybe he's as crazy as Holmes. Had it happened a month ago I would have thought nothing of it, but this event has even me a bit on edge of people with guns that I don't know.

This isn't about me or you. It's about a man arrested by police and having his legally possessed private property confiscated because he chose to exercise a legal right in a manner in which you, and some others, disapprove. It's unfortunate you believe a man doing nothing wrong makes you uncomfortable.


It's not like we are calling for the laws to change or for this guy to be unjustly prosecuted for acting within the law. However, if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. People in this area, and even the country, are goin to need some time to heal from this tragedy. Gun owners can use their brain and be thoughtful in their actions, especially during this time. Shit like this just makes fun owners look like people who only care about their right to bear arms and nothing else, basically playing right into the liberal fear mongrring anti gun crowds hands.

In one breath you say you're not calling for laws to change. In the next you say, again, how he deserved what he got because he's stupid. You say you don't want the law changed but you think it's OK the police ignored the law and arrested this man for not violating a law because some people are upset about what happened in an unrelated incident. That's pretty lame. What happened in Aurora is bad all the way around for pretty much everyone...involved or not. Telling jokes to victims or their surviving family members about a movie theater shooting would be inappropriate and is an example of a time when self-policing my 1st amendment right to tell a tasteless joke would be a good idea. Giving up my rights of self-protection to make you, and them, feel better or less afraid is not something I'd be willing to do and, apparently, neither was Mapes.

You throw the words "stupid", "dumb", "retarded" and "idiot" around a lot just because someone did something, perfectly legal, that you would not have done. I wonder how many things you do that some people would consider to be "stupid", "dumb", "retarded" and "idiotic" that you think it's perfectly OK to do?

Mapes, and many of us who agree with him, don't exercise our rights to make you or anyone else feel good or safe or comfortable in your world. We do it to make us feel good and safe and comfortable in our world.

[Whistler]

I want to know how many of you guys who support OC at the theater man will go and do the exact same thing this weekend? You know- in order to show you are good guys and not weak-kneed roll-over wanna-be gun rights activists. Come on- how about a head count?

If I decide to go to the theater and I CHOOSE to carry open I will. The key here is my choice, that's what rights are about. Caving to pressure to carry if/when/where & how I want to is/was the entire point and I'm no more likely to OC in response to your "challenge" than I am not to in response to another's opinion of political correctness.

I disagree with your opinion that I need to change my behavior in reaction to an emotional response from either side and resent the implication I would be irresponsible not to. I almost always CC and I have my own reasons for doing so not in reaction to any outside influence, to make any point, to be politically correct or to make you like me. :)

I respect your right to choose not to OC but if you think that protects our rights in any way you are mistaken. The concession (and it is a concession) to forgo OC for an undetermined period of time will not be perceived in any positive light by anti-gun opposition and if possible will be used in support of their position to further restrict my choices based on emotion and their view of the world.

I'm not saying they won't over-react to OC but I am saying it is more about exploiting the emotion to further their cause than any real danger. It seems to be working eh?

My rights my choices. I won't put my guns down to make the anti-gun crowd happy and I damn sure won't put them down to make them happy because you think it's the "responsible thing to do". Conversely I don't see an opportunity to further or protect our rights and while I think OC to "make a point" or for any other legal reason is perfectly fine, it's not my choice because I don't think either position helps (or hurts) anyone. Consequently it is my choice to continue to behave in exactly the same fashion as before and to make the decisions I deem to be correct free from the opinions of either extreme. Damn I love America!

[Bailey Guns]

Under that line of reasoning ("If you really support it you'd go do it") - If I were a pregnant female and supported another woman's right to have an abortion I'd need to have an abortion to prove my support. It makes no sense.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Just to clarify I support the right right to OC, I however prefer to CC.

[tmckay2]

Again, stop spasing out. No one is calling for the law to be changed or to never oc ever again. If people start talking getting rid of oc I am sure all of us will be there to defend that right. This is about individuals who are fully able to use rational thought when making decisions and the idea that they should use this rational thought to not stir the pot or frighten the locals until things cool down. Do I think the guy should be thrown in prison? No! He was within the law. But to not expect a negative reaction by doing such a thing is plain stupid. If you absolutely have to oc in a theater then have some decency and wait a while. It's been hardly over a week. He had every right to do what he did, no one is disputing that. But exercising a right that everyone knows is going to offend and frighten a lot of people right now isn't smart and it shows no consideration for other people. I think we can all hold off on having to show the world all the rights we have in order to let people grieve and give them time to heal. I have no problem with people oc anywhere else right now and tensions wouldn't be as high in a grocery store compared to a theater. You are a complete bafoon if you don't expect a negative reaction by carrying a visible gun into a theater a week after a massacre happened across town. Again, it's common sense.


Sorry to come across as a stirrer. I happened on this site through the Utah concealed carry site. The only thread that isn't about "post whores" or "is this site legit" or "what are your mods" or any others that don't really apply to me is this one. I am not trying to cause problems. Just trying to defend OC from going away anywhere. First it goes, then the "assault rifles" or anything that looks like one, then my handgun. Ugly road we head down when we roll over, even if only for a minute. Doesn't take much to lose what we aren't willing to constantly and consistently defend. It is much easier when we restrict it ourselves for them to relinquish us of them. I understand the sensitive situation there. How could we not?

[tmckay2]

He did get what he deserved. He won't go to prison or even be fined. It's a bunch of liberals who don't know the law. The guys defense is simple even the worst lawyer can get him out of any trouble. Again, no one said he should go to jail, but being arrested isn't surprising. Cops and others aren't goon to be taking any risks right now an I don't completely blame them. This isn't about the law. No one ete is talking about changing the oc law, no one in the country is talking about changing the oc law. If they were, we would all be in agreement. In fact, doing things like this at a high stress time very well may get people talking about taking away oc. No one EVER said he didn't have a right to do it we said he is stupid for doin it just like lots of people use free speech, free expression of religion and lots of other rights at the completely wrong time or place! Stop talking about the law and having a panic attack, no one is disputing the law at all. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. Thi isn't like lifting weights where if you take a few weeks off your right dwindles away. We really don't need gun owners acting irresponsibly right now. The only argument I've seen in his defense is that it's his right and he needs to exercise it. What kind of stupid argument is that? Do you say the same when WBC protests? Or Muslims go out of their way to show they are Muslim on an airplane? Of course we all agree they have those rights and would never support taking then away, yet we all criticize them because they show no tact or consideration for others. Flaunting rights anytime you want will get you trouble, no doubt about it. I never said people should refrain from oc anywhere but right now in theaters is just plain stupid an in my opinion he was trying to get a reaction.


Challenge all you want.

I don't smoke. Never have, never will. But there have been several cities, even the state, enacting smoking bans...even on private property. Even though I'm a non-smoker I still supported the right of a business owner to allow smoking in their establishments, on their private property. Didn't mean I had to run over there and light up a cigarette.

I don't hunt any longer. I got to the point where it bothered me to kill an animal. But I still support the rights of those who do hunt. It doesn't mean I have to go out, get a tag and shoot an animal.

Your "challenge" is simply ridiculous. I don't OC anywhere because I choose to carry concealed everywhere. Just because I support Mapes' actions doesn't mean I have to run out into the world and mimic his actions.



This isn't about me or you. It's about a man arrested by police and having his legally possessed private property confiscated because he chose to exercise a legal right in a manner in which you, and some others, disapprove. It's unfortunate you believe a man doing nothing wrong makes you uncomfortable.



In one breath you say you're not calling for laws to change. In the next you say, again, how he deserved what he got because he's stupid. You say you don't want the law changed but you think it's OK the police ignored the law and arrested this man for not violating a law because some people are upset about what happened in an unrelated incident. That's pretty lame. What happened in Aurora is bad all the way around for pretty much everyone...involved or not. Telling jokes to victims or their surviving family members about a movie theater shooting would be inappropriate and is an example of a time when self-policing my 1st amendment right to tell a tasteless joke would be a good idea. Giving up my rights of self-protection to make you, and them, feel better or less afraid is not something I'd be willing to do and, apparently, neither was Mapes.

You throw the words "stupid", "dumb", "retarded" and "idiot" around a lot just because someone did something, perfectly legal, that you would not have done. I wonder how many things you do that some people would consider to be "stupid", "dumb", "retarded" and "idiotic" that you think it's perfectly OK to do?

Mapes, and many of us who agree with him, don't exercise our rights to make you or anyone else feel good or safe or comfortable in your world. We do it to make us feel good and safe and comfortable in our world.

[sneakerd]

Opinions seem to run about 50/50 here. As to Bailey's statements that my challenge is ridiculous- I disagree. The supporters of Mapes posting here, from Byte Stryke to O2H2(?) all say they are OCers and will all continue to OC as that is their right, Mapes did nothing wrong, etc. My point and MCkay's point all along is simply that he went out looking for trouble- and he found it- and anyone who purposely goes out looking for trouble deserves whatever they get. By "issuing the challenge", and of course I'll get no verifiable takers, I'm confirming that most- if not all- of my fellow forum members are smarter than Mapes. I support OC whenever an individual feels it's necessary, as long as it is their right where they choose to do it. In return the OCer has to realize that the act may bring them unwarranted and unwanted attention. I also still think that most do it simply to make a statement, and not because they actually NEED to. I'll bet most people here who regularly OC also have a CCW.

[kanekutter05]

This quote is more about being a man than this particular situation, but I think the spirit of it is where those of us who see nothing wrong with Mapes actions are coming from:

"You must let your strength show up...Many men have actually been afraid to let our strength show up because the world doesn't have a place for it. Fine. The world's screwed up. Let people feel the weight of who you are and let them deal with it. "

-John Eldredge in Wild At Heart

[10mm-man]

I'm still waiting for the local headcount of people who will OC at a theater around here this coming weekend to show their support for Thornton OC man. Don't think I'm going to get any takers.


I must of missed something tried to read back but can't find it? What is your point in calling people out? Is it a challenge to those who support OC or was it
to particular individuals? And once again; what do you intend to prove?

[10mm-man]

I also still think that most do it simply to make a statement, and not because they actually NEED to. I'll bet most people here who regularly OC also have a CCW.

Again I missed something (trying to catch up on the conversation), so what is your point? If someone has an CHP/CCW they can't, shouldn't or are not allowed to carry OC to make a statement?

[MED]

Personally, I don’t open carry in urban or suburban settings because I have absolutely no desire to draw attention to myself. If you open carry, you will be noticed; and I prefer to blend into my surroundings as much as possible.

I really don’t think open carry at a theater shortly after the Cinemark mass shooting helps our cause any. It makes us look like we are nuts, and I feel this was done in extremely poor judgment. I know and you all know this was a peaceful display of both gun ownership and the right to bear arms, but it is not presented that way.

However, he shouldn’t have been arrested and the reporting on the incident was horrible. Although, I did read a statement from the police department referring to Colorado as an open carry state. If you watched it on the news, it described the incident as a lunatic with a gun. If you read about it, you got more of the legality of it.

Although consider this: who really expects that we would actually get positive publicity on this? This kind of stuff may actually target the Colorado open carry law. We have a hell of a fight on our hands, and we need to focus on the important issues…negative publicity is not helpful.

[Singlestack]

+1 on the negative publicity.

I don't think anyone believes the antis minds will be changed one way or the other based on Mapes - they will continue to push Gun Control at every opportunity. However, most people aren't antis and aren't necessarily pro-gun either - they are soft, squishy, not very well informed, and easily influenced by emotional reactions. Love them or hate them, their votes carry as much weight as any of ours.

Regardless of what I/you/we think, the majority of those who vote are affected by this type of negative publicity and (in my opinion) are more likely to support Gun Control at the ballot box and through their elected representatives. Ignoring or denying that just makes it more likely we will have restrictions we don't want sometime in the future.

Singlestack

[Whistler]

Obviously neither side will be swayed, commendable resolve from both sides and discussion of this type is imperative to healthy society.

You have a right to your view, I have the right to disagree. I respect your right to choose and I ask you respect mine without resorting to name calling and insults. Simply stating "I disagree" conveys the message as readily as "that's just stupid!". Surely we can discuss opposing views in a rational manner though I'll need to refine my argument as opposed to repeating myself.

After removing the insults so far as I can ascertain the position against OC is that generally people are more sensitive to people with guns at this time, that OC upsets them (however irrational) and that we should refrain from OC until they calm down. As I understand it this position also contends inciting these fears by openly carrying a weapon will result in action against open carry and that the "common sense" course of action is to accommodate that fear by refraining from OC in hopes it will serve to mitigate calls for additional restrictions by not contributing to them. Additionally that exercising your OC right is "ignorant right now" and will make all gun owners look like "gun nuts or pistol-packing rednecks". Please correct me if I've misstated the position.

I contend that the emotional reaction will run it's course regardless and that those opposed to guns and/or OC will continue to be opposed despite any actions we might take to impress them otherwise. I also contend that those opposed to guns and/or OC will make every effort to exploit these emotions to serve their agenda and that an implied concession is more valuable to their agenda than maintaining our historical position. That is not meant to imply they will not exploit emotional reaction regardless of any concession. Candidly the bad press argument is without merit unless you mean more bad press, gun owners are already portrayed in that light, have been for years and will continue to be despite our best efforts. Especially if those opposed to guns perceive they have "shamed" us into a compromise.

I don't perceive any value in making a point by carrying openly likewise I can fathom no value in refraining from carrying openly. I will continue to do as I have always done and make my choices as I see fit. My position is do what you think is right but insulting someone else for doing exactly the same thing, making a personal choice, supports the opposition and diminishes our rights by legitimizing OC as "wrong" based on any particular event.

In my opinion we should not change our behavior based on a perceived possible outcome and instead should maintain the status quo remaining vigilant to actual threats to our freedoms. The only thing that really bugs me is how readily otherwise stalwart gun owners are willing to change their behavior and/or accept compromise to avoid confrontation.

[sellersm]

accept compromise to avoid confrontation.

This very thing is what some folks accuse the NRA of doing. Compromising to gain some kind of advantage, or future payoff...

[josh7328]

After reading some of yall's well written responses, I have swayed a bit to the side of supporting this guy. Good points.

[Squeeze]

You really think its a good idea to waltz into a movie theater with open carry a week or so after one of the worst massacres in US history which happened just down the road? Give me a break, this isn't about the law or changing the rules forever this is about using the brain god gave you. If you absolutely can't go to the movies without showing your heat then wait until things cool down. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you get to throw all common sense out the window and not expect bad things to happen. The vast majority of citizens know nothing about guns or about the laws regarding guns. They do know 70 people were shot a little over a week ago in a theater. Hell even I would have a hard time focusing on te movie if I saw that. I don't know that guy, maybe he's as crazy as Holmes. Had it happened a month ago I would have thought nothing of it, but this event has even me a bit on edge of people with guns that I don't know.

It's not like we are calling for the laws to change or for this guy to be unjustly prosecuted for acting within the law. However, if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. People in this area, and even the country, are goin to need some time to heal from this tragedy. Gun owners can use their brain and be thoughtful in their actions, especially during this time. Shit like this just makes gun owners look like people who only care about their right to bear arms and nothing else, basically playing right into the liberal fear mongrring anti gun crowds hands.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[sneakerd]

To try to clarify my point -again-, for all of the boisterous and vociferous support of OC-at-the-theater-man, nobody here will dare do what he did, because it was dumb, and makes us all (gunowners) look like idiots. Whether or not it is his "right" to do it.

[cofi]

To try to clarify my point -again-, for all of the boisterous and vociferous support of OC-at-the-theater-man, nobody here will dare do what he did, because it was dumb, and makes us all (gunowners) look like idiots. Whether or not it is his "right" to do it.


find me a theater with no posted "no firearms" signs ill gladly go OC there this weekend with the family

[00tec]

find me a theater with no posted "no firearms" signs ill gladly go OC there this weekend with the family

I was about to say, might be hard to do. Especially since the closest one to me had someone arrested recently and probably installed signs.

[10mm-man]

find me a theater with no posted "no firearms" signs ill gladly go OC there this weekend with the family

Glad someone stepped up, maybe this dude will shut up finally!

[sneakerd]

Cofi- all I can say is good luck. Be sure to bring your camera with you- take a nice pic of you and the kiddos in the theater with your pistol clearly on display. [Luck]

Same to you 10mm!!

[10mm-man]

Cofi- all I can say is good luck. Be sure to bring your camera with you- take a nice pic of you and the kiddos in the theater with your pistol clearly on display. [Luck]

Same to you 10mm!!

You done running your SUCK now? I already stated my stance on OC and I support it 100%. You should turn your guns in and join the libs your not fit to carry!! [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[BDay]

[SideShow Bob]

[Pop]

[sneakerd]

Ah yes.... the final words of he who would silence those who disagree with him.... the personal attack. [Weight][Muaha][BooHoo]!

[10mm-man]

Ah yes.... the final words of he who would silence those who disagree with him.... the personal attack. [Weight][Muaha][BooHoo]!

Wasn't meant for you take personal..... That's why I added the:[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[sneakerd]

Fair enough... by the way- the courageous act has not been emulated as of yet... Cofi said I had to find him a theater that hadn't posted a no gun sign on it before he would do it. Soooo good luck again, as I previously noted.[Beer]

Besides any of that, I'll risk that his wife or significant other will not be too interested in participating in the experiment. Of course I could be wrong.....[Coffee]

[10mm-man]

Fair enough... by the way- the courageous act has not been emulated as of yet... Cofi said I had to find him a theater that hadn't posted a no gun sign on it before he would do it. Soooo good luck again, as I previously noted.[Beer]

Besides any of that, I'll risk that his wife or significant other will not be too interested in participating in the experiment. Of course I could be wrong.....[Coffee]

Awe the saga continues, and the suck hole breathes again! J/k on the suck hole part...[ROFL1]

[sneakerd]

Shut yer gob!! [Rant1]





[Beer]

[cofi]

Besides any of that, I'll risk that his wife or significant other will not be too interested in participating in the experiment. Of course I could be wrong.....[Coffee]
my wife would not give one shit she proudly carrrys her lil 380 EVERYWHERE she goes

in fact shes going to be signing up to this site soon as we can get the email thing figured out

[sneakerd]

Then I expect I'll see a pic of both of you OC ing at a theater?[Coffee]

[Mama Bear]

I think that a lot of people are failing to see the big picture here. If an establishment does not want you to open carry, they are capable of politely asking you to not do it. For example, we did not read the costco rules completely and were open carrying there. When it was time to check out, an employee politely approached us and informed us of the weapons policy. We checked out and continued on our day. Its unfortunate that one gun owner has now jeopardized the rights we law abiding citizens have.

[sroz]

find me a theater with no posted "no firearms" signs ill gladly go OC there this weekend with the family

You hooked this one, sneakerd. Ever heard of catch 'n' release? Oh well.....guess I'll just have to read bout it in the papers.

[Coffee]

[Beer]

[Mama Bear]

You hooked this one, sneakerd. Ever heard of catch 'n' release? Oh well.....guess I'll just have to read bout it in the papers.

[Coffee]

[Beer]
I find it sad that you are making a mockery of law abiding citizens being arrested for expressing their second amendment rights.

[sroz]

Did not realize it was such an emotional issue for you.

[cofi]

Did not realize it was such an emotional issue for you.
what the second amendment? what fucking site are we on????

[sroz]

I was responding to making Mama Bear sad. I'm fully aware of the second ammendment and I can't speak for you, but I know what site I'm on.

[Longnecktipper]

I'm not going to throw my two cents in on this subject . But I will say that some people's comments on the topic have truly let their true colors show ! Some I have a lot more respect for , and others .... Let's just leave it at that .

[sneakerd]

One of my many faults, is that sometimes I don't know when to quit (or maybe when to shut my piehole!). Maybe I had better back away now........ Sorry to anyone I pissed off, nothing personal, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

[10mm-man]

One of my many faults, is that sometimes I don't know when to quit (or maybe when to shut my SUCK HOLE!). Maybe I had better back away now........ Sorry to anyone I pissed off, nothing personal, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Fixed for ya! [Beer]

[sneakerd]

You a velly bad man!![Love2][Phone][Censor][Evil][Bed]

[sroz]

Fixed for ya! [Beer]

Someone always comes along to help. [Beer]

Think I've set-off 3 people already tonight. My sensitivity meter tells me I've met my quota. I'll have to follow your lead & back away, sneakerd.

[Beer]

[Mama Bear]

One of my many faults, is that sometimes I don't know when to quit (or maybe when to shut my piehole!). Maybe I had better back away now........ Sorry to anyone I pissed off, nothing personal, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

And this is where I will agree with you, everyone deserves and has the right to their opinion. As for the topic of this thread, well just have to agree to disagree.

[sroz]

And this is where I will agree with you, everyone deserves and has the right to their opinion. As for the topic of this thread, well just have to agree to disagree.

Well said! [Beer]

[10mm-man]

Think I've set-off 3 people already tonight.

[Beer]

Shit man when you start taking the shit on the site that serious it's time to go find a hobby or something...... If you take it that serious you got some issues... just saying!

I thought nothing on this site should be taking serious and it was like a role playing site or something. Your all leading me to believe your all serious about carrying guns and stuff!! PLEASE like any of you would!![Stooge]

[O2HeN2]

Ah yes.... the final words of he who would silence those who disagree with him.... the personal attack. [Weight][Muaha][BooHoo]!

You're joking, right? Feigning offense at the "personal attack"?

I think you've got the 10 to one ratio over everyone when it comes to terms like "stupid", "idiot", "dumb", etc. Go back and read your posts if you don't believe me.

O2

[sroz]

Shit man when you start taking the shit on the site that serious it's time to go find a hobby or something...... If you take it that serious you got some issues... just saying!

I thought nothing on this site should be taking serious and it was like a role playing site or something. Your all leading me to believe your all serious about carrying guns and stuff!! PLEASE like any of you would!![Stooge]

My point exactly....the back and forth was fun.

[sneakerd]

Now who won't let it go and move on? Trolling anyone? Looking for a little trouble? Nothing I said was directed at anyone on this site. Those comments were directed towards a third party whose actions I strongly disagreed with and that in my opinion were foolish and un-necessary.

[Storm]

I just found this interview on Westword with James Mapes (the offender). In light of this I'm willing to backpedal a bit on my previous comments.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/07/james_mapes_movie_theater_gun.php?ref=trending (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/07/james_mapes_movie_theater_gun.php?ref=trending)

[Bailey Guns]

So much for the theory he was trying to draw attention to himself and make a grand political statement. Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

[tmckay2]

So much for the theory he was trying to draw attention to himself and make a grand political statement. Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

Are you being serious or just trolling? I really can't tell. Let's recap his actions. He rolls out with an anti liberalism shirt. He has te ability to ccw but instead open carries at a theater just miles from where the shooting happened, and he's clearly very angry people are talking about legislation after the act of one man (we can all agree rightfully so on this part). There are two possibilities. He is either trying to get arise out of liberals, which he did. Or he is amazingly ignorant in thinking wearing such a shirt and open carrying wouldn't cause him problems at a theater just a few weeks after such a shooting. Now his problem is that legally they COULD charge him due to the Thornton ordnance which if you ever are going to open carry you have to make sure you know these things. He now has put his fate in the prosecutors hands, they get to make a judgement call on his intent. His actions point to him trying to make a statement, his words (as expected) point to him not trying to make a statement. Really it comes down to if you know the guy and what he is like. My guess is the prosecutor will be anti gun an liberal, and considering he wore an anti liberal shirt (which te only reason to own something like that is if you enjoy making public political statements) the prosecutor will charge him. Again, I'll defend his right by the law to carry all day but not his incredibly poor judgement.

Additionally it's likely the theater will not allow open carry now since it caused such a ruckus. Also open carry wasn't even on the liberal radar but you better believe it will be now in this area. Look at the possible danger it causes, they'll say. The cops could have shot him yada yada. Thanks a lot buddy. He just put a bigger target on our backs than we had before.

[djkest]

I'm going to assume this guy was carrying concealed and not carrying openly as they mention a permit in the articles. If he was carrying openly (particularly after last week), he's a freakin DUMB-ASS!

So a couple points on this.

1) This should be a cautionary tale on those of us that have a CHP and choose to carry into a marked and prohibited establishment. The point is this, as permit holders we know the law (at worst it's a trespassing charge, if you get caught carrying and refuse to leave), but the employees and mangers of said establishment may not know the law and automatically call the police. If you're going to do it, make damn sure it's concealed.

2) If he was arrested under some city ordinance in Thornton, he may have grounds for suing the city, under the state's firearms supremacy clause and possibly the theater as well.

ETA: I just re-read the DP article and it says he open-carried, so he's a dumb-ass. None the less, my two points still stand.

I agree. He was stupid- maybe it sounded good in his head, but the reality of the situation is different. He maybe thought he was being patriotic or safe or making a point- he just did it in an incredibly poor way.

This guy is NOT helping things, he's making the gun community look like idiots (at best).

Yes, the media and the theater manager overreacted, but in this situation I think he did what he thought was appropriate.

[Bailey Guns]

tmckay2...read the article. Slower this time. Maybe you'll get it. Maybe not.

You might also want to read CRS 29-11.7-101 regarding the City of Thornton charging Mapes for the gun thing.

[tmckay2]

tmckay2...read the article. Slower this time. Maybe you'll get it. Maybe not.

You might also want to read CRS 29-11.7-101 regarding the City of Thornton charging Mapes for the gun thing.

I've read it three times now have you read it yet? If not you should.

[sroz]

Are you being serious or just trolling? I really can't tell. Let's recap his actions. He rolls out with an anti liberalism shirt. He has te ability to ccw but instead open carries at a theater just miles from where the shooting happened, and he's clearly very angry people are talking about legislation after the act of one man (we can all agree rightfully so on this part). There are two possibilities. He is either trying to get arise out of liberals, which he did. Or he is amazingly ignorant in thinking wearing such a shirt and open carrying wouldn't cause him problems at a theater just a few weeks after such a shooting. Now his problem is that legally they COULD charge him due to the Thornton ordnance which if you ever are going to open carry you have to make sure you know these things. He now has put his fate in the prosecutors hands, they get to make a judgement call on his intent. His actions point to him trying to make a statement, his words (as expected) point to him not trying to make a statement. Really it comes down to if you know the guy and what he is like. My guess is the prosecutor will be anti gun an liberal, and considering he wore an anti liberal shirt (which te only reason to own something like that is if you enjoy making public political statements) the prosecutor will charge him. Again, I'll defend his right by the law to carry all day but not his incredibly poor judgement.

Additionally it's likely the theater will not allow open carry now since it caused such a ruckus. Also open carry wasn't even on the liberal radar but you better believe it will be now in this area. Look at the possible danger it causes, they'll say. The cops could have shot him yada yada. Thanks a lot buddy. He just put a bigger target on our backs than we had before.

Totally agree. [Beer]

[Whistler]

Guess I really am as ignorant and insensitive as my wife says, like Iron Eyes Cody I weep for virtues lost.

_6top6loDJE

[sneakerd]

Iron Eyes Cody was NOT an American Indian, he was an Italian. Just another media trick. FYI

[Teufelhund]

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, but my brother made me read it and now I'm a little pissed off and feel the need to call some of you out.

This guy, fat and dumb though he may be, chose to exercise his 1st and 2nd Amendment Rights in a time and place where it was legal but unpopular to do so. You pussies that are calling him a dumbass for doing so will be the first ones to roll over when the other shoe finally drops. Have fun in your re-education camps.

Just a bunch of internet tough-guys who are all supportive of defending our Rights when all you have to do is talk about it, but when someone takes a stand you hide behind the sofa and cry that anyone not hiding is simply exercising poor judgement. Shame on you.

What was that tiny percentage of Americans who stood up for an unpopular ideal and called themselves Patriots when we declared our Independence from Britain? Thank God for those men that had the courage of their conviction and would not be told to sit down and be quiet because they might cause trouble.

Thanks for volunteering your names for the list of those who lack the testicular fortitude for action so the rest of us know who to avoid wasting our time on when the SHTF.

Flame on. [Flame]

[sneakerd]

Yeah right ok, you so baaaaadddd. [Puke]

[SideShow Bob]

Sneakerd, I see that you are still pushing people's buttons........[LOL]