Magpul versus CO Legislation Thread

[Byte Stryke]

In addition to the national battle to protect our firearms rights, many states are currently engaged in their own fights. Here in CO, a state with a strong heritage of firearm and other personal freedoms, we are facing some extreme challenges to firearms rights. We have been engaged in dialogue with legislators here presenting our arguments to stop legislation from even being introduced, but our efforts did not deter those of extreme views.

After the NRAs visit last week, several anti-freedom bills were introduced by CO legislators, and a very aggressive timeline has been set forth in moving these bills forward.

The bills include:
HB 1229, Background checks for Gun Transfers--a measure to prohibit private sales between CO residents, and instead require a full FFL transfer, including a 4473.

HB 1228, Payment for Background Checks for Gun Transfers-- a measure that would require CO residents to pay for the back logged state-run CBI system (currently taking 3 times the federally mandated wait time for checks to occur) instead of using the free federal NICS checks.

And finally, HB 1224, Prohibiting Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines--a measure that bans the possession, sale, or transfer of magazines over 10 round capacity. The measures and stipulations in this bill would deprive CO residents of the value of their private property by prohibiting the sale or transfer of all magazines over 10 rounds. This bill would also prohibit manufacture of magazines greater than 10 rounds for commercial sale out of the state, and place restrictions on the manufacture of military and law enforcement magazines that would cripple production.

We'd like to ask all CO residents to please contact your state legislators and the members of the Judiciary Committee and urge them to kill these measures in committee, and to vote NO if they reach the floor.

We also ask you to show your support for the 2nd Amendment at the Capitol on Tuesday, Feb 12, for the magazine ban committee hearing and Wednesday,
Feb 13, for the hearing on the other measures.

Due to the highly restrictive language in HB 1224, if passed, and we remained here, this measure would require us to cease PMAG production on July 1, 2013.

In short, Magpul would be unable to remain in business as a CO company, and the over 200 jobs for direct employees and nearly 700 jobs at our subcontractors and suppliers would pick up and leave CO. Due to the structure of our operations, this would be entirely possible, hopefully without significant disruption to production.

The legislators drafting these measures do so in spite of the fact that nothing they are proposing will do anything to even marginally improve public safety in CO, and in fact, will leave law-abiding CO residents less able to defend themselves, strip away rights and property from residents who have done nothing wrong, and send nearly 1000 jobs and millions in tax revenue out of the state.

We like CO, we want to continue to operate in CO, but most of all, we want CO to remain FREE.

Please help us in this fight, and let your voices be heard!

We have included the contact information for the House Judiciary committee for your convenience:

House Judiciary Committee
Rep. Daniel Kagan, Chair: 303-866-2921, repkagan@gmail.com
Rep. Pete Lee, Vice Chair: 303-866-2932, pete.lee.house@state.co.us
Rep. John Buckner: 303-866-2944, john.buckner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Lois Court: 303-866-2967, lois.court.house@state.co.us
Rep. Bob Gardner, 303-866-2191, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Polly Lawrence, 303-866-2935, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us
Rep. Mike McLachlan, 303-866-2914, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us
Rep. Rep Carole Murray, 303-866-2948, murrayhouse45@gmail.com
Rep. Brittany Pettersen, 303-866-2939, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us
Rep. Joseph Salazar, 303-866-2918, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us
Rep. Jared Wright, 303-866-2583, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

Annoying Google link that snuck into the origninal post removed...please feel free to share and reproduce!

[jhirsh5280]

A friend of mine also posted that. We just need to make sure our reps hear our voices and let them know this is not ok

[buckshotbarlow]

I hope they will give CO the finger if this crap passes...

[Byte Stryke]

They won't even listen to me anymore.
but I am pulling weight in my new home state...
I have been asked to address the Georgia state assembly

[hurley842002]

I hope they will give CO the finger if this crap passes...

They won't really have a choice but to give CO the finger, pretty much said they would move operations if need be. Would be a sad day for sure.

[vossman]

I hope they will give CO the finger if this crap passes...

Yup, it's sad but they are going after Magpul. Shameful! It's good they gave us job and tax stats for writing our reps

[islandermyk]

I've been posting this all over FB too... along with that I have emailed these state senators. I hope many of you are doing the same thing [Beer]

[John123]

repkagan@gmail.com, pete.lee.house@state.co.us, john.buckner.house@state.co.us, lois.court.house@state.co.us, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us, murrayhouse45@gmail.com, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

To contact all of them at once copy and paste :)

John

[jackthewall81]

Ill be moving with them.

[Kraven251]

yeah Dear CO, we represent you, but we are gonna impact 900 jobs, and significant sources of state revenue, but we have your interests at heart.

I'm going to write in to the various news stations in Denver and see if I can't get them to cover the fact that the proposed legislation will cost jobs. Though if I was Magpul I would already be lining up a lawsuit against the state for directly damaging their business.

[nikolatesla19]

Ill be moving with them.

Gotta say I've thought about it myself...

[birddog]

Gotta say I've thought about it myself...

Man I would sure love to, not much in my line of work in WY or MT. I hope it doesn't come to them moving.

[Dave]

Maybe they'll move to Cheyenne and some of us here can move there and work for them.

People that gun grabbers represent won't care about jobs lost, they probably just figure Magpul employees can get government assistance like they do.

[buckshotbarlow]

They won't really have a choice but to give CO the finger, pretty much said they would move operations if need be. Would be a sad day for sure.

I mean to tell the whole of CO the finger, as in LEO and everybody else in the govie sector...

Then if this crap passes, i'm in wyoming...wife and kids can stay here...

[HoneyBadger]

I sent them all several "form emails" (the same kind they send to us... LOL) detailing my disgust at the recent spur of gun crime, but furthermore my disgust at our elected officials' responses to it. I reminded them of their duties and asked them to please consider that they were elected to serve the people of Colorado, not their own self-interests and political agendas.

[motohooligan]

I all my letters so far I have been citing Magpul as an example of Colorado companies that will be hurt by the proposed legislation. Let's just hope that it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

[HoneyBadger]

repkagan@gmail.com, pete.lee.house@state.co.us, john.buckner.house@state.co.us, lois.court.house@state.co.us, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us, murrayhouse45@gmail.com, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

To contact all of them at once copy and paste :)

John


I sent 3 different "form letter" emails to this list of recipients from 3 different email addresses (for a total of 9 emails). Who's got me beat?

[Coffee]

[Gman]

The problem with the folks pushing these illogical and emotion-based limitations, is that they never let facts get in the way of their agenda. They'll set their course for the center of the sun and go full throttle.

[KAPA]

repkagan@gmail.com, pete.lee.house@state.co.us, john.buckner.house@state.co.us, lois.court.house@state.co.us, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us, murrayhouse45@gmail.com, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

To contact all of them at once copy and paste :)

John


Thank You Sir! Made it much easier to send fire this letter off:

Dear Representatives,

I am a law abiding citizen and responsible gun owner.I know that there are several upcoming bills regarding restricting gun rights. This one HB1224 in particular hits hard because it directly affects a local Colorado Company. Magpul is a leader in the industry and a proud Colorado grown business, sadly if this bill passes, this will no longer be the case... From Magpul’s FaceBook page:

“Due to the highly restrictive language in HB 1224, if passed, and we remained here, this measure would require us to cease PMAG production on July 1, 2013.
In short, Magpul would be unable to remain in business as a CO company, and the over 200 jobs for direct employees and nearly 700 jobs at our subcontractors and suppliers would pick up and leave CO. Due to the structure of our operations, this would be entirely possible, hopefully without significant disruption to production.”

Like most of the rest of the country, Colorado is struggling to provide opportunities for everyone and lower the unemployment rate. I would hate to see something done that will not only infringe on law abiding citizen's rights but also cause such a substantial job loss of firearms professionals.

A few important points that I hope you will read before I conclude... It takes the average person less than 3-4 seconds to change a magazine, even less if they have some experience with their particular firearm. The AR-15 platform of rifles has become one of the most popular firearms in this country yet most crimes are committed with firearms that would all be perfectly legal even in New York and California which infringe the most on our 2nd Amendment. Please do not forget that the Virginia Tech shooter used a handgun with numerous 10 round magazines and managed to kill more people than any other mass shooter this country has ever seen. My greatest fear with these potential gun laws is that they are a stepping stone. Now that the arbitrary number of 10 rounds seems to be the sweet spot for liberal politicians, what happens when the next mass shooting occurs with a 10 round magazine? Will the next step be to take it down to 7? 3? Where will it stop? I am actually asking this question for an answer and not to be rhetorical. I, along with my wife, protect my family and my home with a firearm that utilizes a 15 round magazine and this legislation is trying to take that line of defense away from us and the rest of the citizens here in Colorado. Not one of these new laws benefits law abiding citizens in Colorado or the rest of this country! Please do your part as an American, and uphold the constitution as you swore to do when you took office.

Additionally, if we are looking at adding common sense type laws that I keep hearing about, isn't it time that we waive background checks all together for current holders of a Concealed Handgun Permit? These citizens already have gone through all the required background checks and are sure to have at least one firearm in their possession.

To conclude, I am asking for these new gun laws to be shut down immediately. The last thing we need is more people on the street looking for work. If you want to make a real difference, please start working on ways to help lower unemployment, and help people with mental problems so that we can get to the root of what causes all of these mass shootings. Create more opportunities for citizens to take pride in their jobs, their communities, and improve their lives and the lives of others. Do that, and you have actually done something meaningful. Pass gun laws and all you are doing is dividing this country even farther and in my opinion creating more hysteria in the far right of this country.

No to new gun laws!



Thank you,

[KAPA]

One thing I have noticed from all the comments on facebook and even some on here is people think it isn't that big of a deal because they can just move to a friendlier state. The line in the sand needs to be drawn folks! It is just a matter of time until even the most gun friendly state gets turned lefty liberal if we keep giving in.

I am sure that we are a battleground state on this issue and having Magpul here makes us that much more of a target. The gun grabbers have got to be thinking that if they can put these restrictions in Colorado shutting down Magpul for even a time will just be a cherry on top. Don't think that they don't know Magpul produces a vast majority of these 30 round mags. They know this, and they are going for it!

We are going to need help on a national level for this to not pass.

Anyone know what the NRA is doing on this matter? I know my $35 a year can only go so far but what is it buying for Colorado at the moment?

[Byte Stryke]

One thing I have noticed from all the comments on facebook and even some on here is people think it isn't that big of a deal because they can just move to a friendlier state. The line in the sand needs to be drawn folks! It is just a matter of time until even the most gun friendly state gets turned lefty liberal if we keep giving in.

I am sure that we are a battleground state on this issue and having Magpul here makes us that much more of a target. The gun grabbers have got to be thinking that if they can put these restrictions in Colorado shutting down Magpul for even a time will just be a cherry on top. Don't think that they don't know Magpul produces a vast majority of these 30 round mags. They know this, and they are going for it!

We are going to need help on a national level for this to not pass.

Anyone know what the NRA is doing on this matter? I know my $35 a year can only go so far but what is it buying for Colorado at the moment?
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/2/colorado-we-need-you-to-attend-committee-hearings-opposing-anti-gun-bills-this-tuesday-and-wednesday-in-denver.aspx

[Bailey Guns]

Anyone know what the NRA is doing on this matter? I know my $35 a year can only go so far but what is it buying for Colorado at the moment?

One thing that needs to be made clear again. NRA dues money DOES NOT go towards lobbying efforts. It's prohibited by law. It's fantastic that so many new members have become part of the NRA but paying your membership dues does nothing to help lobbying efforts here in CO or anywhere else.

You, me, all of us...really need to donate even a very small amount (I know things are a bit tight for a lot of folks but even $5 is better than nothing) to the NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). The ILA is the lobbying arm of the NRA and they rely on donations to do their work.

PLEASE donate to the NRA/ILA: Click HERE (https://www.nraila.org/get-involved-locally/secure/donate.aspx).

[Birddog1911]

I'm hoping that my supervisor will let me out of work on Tuesday, so I can head up to Denver.

[buckeye4rnr]

I can't get out of work but I did what I'm able by sending off an email to all of the addresses listed.

[hatidua]

You, me, all of us...really need to donate even a very small amount (I know things are a bit tight for a lot of folks but even $5 is better than nothing) to the NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action). The ILA is the lobbying arm of the NRA and they rely on donations to do their work.

PLEASE donate to the NRA/ILA: Click HERE (https://www.nraila.org/get-involved-locally/secure/donate.aspx).

Just donated, thanks for the link.

[Ronin13]

Magpul is one of the best companies and I've always been proud to be from the same state as their great products... But seriously, f*** CO's General Assembly!

[sellersm]

I've been making phone calls. emails appear to do nothing, and I've been sending a boatload of them...

[opie011]

I tried to send an email to everyone on the committie and it keeps coming back as failed [Dunno]

[Aloha_Shooter]

My e-mail to the Judiciary and Education Committees on HBs 1224, 1226, 1228 and 1229:


All four of these bills are being pushed by extremists using fear, uncertainty and doubt to take advantage of recent tragedies. Not one of them would have helped in the recent tragedies here in Colorado or nationwide. I urge you to stop all four of these bills in committee and to vote NO on them if they reach the floor.

Prohibiting standard (so-called large) capacity ammunition magazines is a favorite boogie man in the gun control/ban crowd but bans only hurt the law-abiding citizen interested in self-defense or the protection of loved ones. Detailed studies have shown time and time again (as if common sense wasn't good enough on this issue) that criminals or sociopaths will simply ignore the prohibitions or carry more magazines.

Creation of more gun-free zones only hurts the law-abiding citizen by taking away their ability to defend themselves or those they love. The college coed or professor deserves the right of self-defense against hooligans or disgruntled students no less than the convenience store clerk or gas station attendant.

We are already paying numerous taxes to pay for state services including the state-run CBI system. Money to run the CBI is already incorporated in the current budget and tax structure. HB 1228 simply seems like an extremist's 2-for-1 in socking law-abiding gun owners with yet another tax in order to spend more money on feel-good-do-nothing programs. There are other areas to cut the budget more effectively than CBI's background check program but if you really feel the need to spend that money elsewhere, Colorado can always use the federal NICS system without charge instead of imposing new punitive taxes.

There are already laws on the books to prosecute illegal gun transfers and strawman purchases. There is no reason to burden transfers between family and friends or rural residents who are miles from the nearest FFL.

If you want to do something about sociopaths and psychopaths like the Aurora theater shooter, pass legislation that makes it easier to refer them for involuntary commitment and evaluation. The absolute last thing you should be doing is making it harder for private citizens to protect themselves.

How will you vote on these four bills?

[sniper7]

Dear Representatives,I am sending all of you an email to let you know you NEED to VOTE NO on every single one of these bills. These bills are job killers, especially in colorado for companies like Magpul. You will be responsible for putting good families on the street if you vote yes. If you do that I will do everything in my power to remove you from your job. Vote NO on each of these measures. I will be watching how you vote.


A VOTER



there is my response.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Response from Priola:


I will fight to protect your 2nd amendment rights.

KP


Kevin Priola
State Representative
House District 56
Minority Whip

12255 Ursula St.
Henderson CO. 80640
303.882.5486
www.kevinpriola.com (http://www.kevinpriola.com)




I sent him an immediate thank you -- and thanks to District 56 for electing him.

[liberty19]

It would be sad to lose such a good company like Magpul from Colorado.

[TS12000]

Antis probably see them leaving as a plus unfortunately

[Gman]

Antis probably see them leaving as a plus unfortunately
^^^This

They won't even think 1/2 step beyond that to realize that it won't shut them down. Magpul will just take their revenue and jobs to a different state. It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them nonetheless.

[merl]

WY would probably pay their relocation costs as a big FU

[DeusExMachina]

I'm not sure how I emailed him, I think maybe Magpul's post last night accidentally included this guy, but his response was post-worthy. This is one of the good guys:


Dear Phil,

Thanks for your note regarding the potential gun control legislation. Although I do not sit on the House Judiciary Committee, I plan to vote against any and all legislation that takes away our 2nd Amendment rights.

Rest assured that I will always protect our 2nd Amendment. Any attempt to restrict both your and my ability to enjoy firearms as well as protecting our families is unacceptable. I have sponsored bills to protect our ability to use guns in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

Thanks again for contacting me and know that I have sworn to uphold the Constitution and will continue to do so.

Thank you!

Jerry Sonnenberg
State Representative
4465 CR 63
Sterling, CO 80751
970-581-8648
www.RepSonnenberg.com

[mahabali]

I just sent 3 more emails to each. Keep it up folks.

Here is a good template for the mag ban:

Honorable Members of the Colorado House Judiciary Committee,
I am an unaffiliated registered voter and it has come to my attention that
you will have the opportunity to stop the progress of House Bill 13-1224 in
the next few days. I'm writing to urge you to do so. No part of House Bill
13-1224 is beneficial to the public safety nor is it beneficial to anyone other
than a criminal by handicapping law abiding citizens involved in self
defense.

Warm regards,

Or this one


I am writing you today to request that you vote against HB1224 - "Prohibiting Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines."

HB1224 will not only strip the rights of law-abiding citizens of Colorado, it will lose the state valuable tax revenues and cause 900 jobs to either leave Colorado or shut their doors.

Magpul, a Colorado based company, posted this on Facebook yesterday:
"Due to the highly restrictive language in HB 1224, if passed, and we remained here, this measure would require us to cease PMAG production on July 1, 2013.

In short, Magpul would be unable to remain in business as a CO company, and the over 200 jobs for direct employees and nearly 700 jobs at our subcontractors and suppliers would pick up and leave CO. Due to the structure of our operations, this would be entirely possible, hopefully without significant disruption to production."

900 more people on unemployment because of legislation that will do nothing for the state. Not a record I would want to have as a legislator.

Thanks for your time,



Here is a list of the Judiciary Committee members email addresses:

Carole Murray <murrayhouse45@gmail.com>, Dan Pabon <dan.pabon.house@state.co.us>, Brian Delgrosso <brian@briandelgrosso.com>, Joe Salazar <joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us>, Perry Buck <perrybuck49@gmail.com>, Jerry
Sonnenberg <jerry@repsonnenberg.com>, Lois Court <lois.court.house@state.co.us>, Mike McLachlan
<mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us>, Pete Lee <pete.lee.house@state.co.us>, Polly Lawrence
<polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us>, Thomas Exum <thomas.exum.house@state.co.us>, Daniel Kagan
<repkagan@gmail.com>, Mark Waller <mark.waller.house@state.co.us>, Jared Wright
<jared.wright.house@state.co.us>, Su Ryden <su.ryden.house@state.co.us>, Bob Gardner
<bob.gardner.house@state.co.us>, John Buckner <john.buckner.house@state.co.us>, Brittany Pettersen
<brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us>, Crisanta Duran <crisanta.duran.house@state.co.us>

[Ronin13]

^^^This

They won't even think 1/2 step beyond that to realize that it won't shut them down. Magpul will just take their revenue and jobs to a different state. It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them nonetheless.
I would hope somewhere close- ya know for those employees with the option to move with the company... oh and these legislators don't realize that there goes some business and individual tax income going away too... Oh nevermind, 64 passed, that will make up for it. [Bang]

[asmo]

My letter that I have been getting a decent response with:



I'm saddened to see our legislature's knee jerk reaction to the recent
tragedies in Connecticut and Aurora. I have read bills HB 13-1224,
13-1226, 13-1228, 13-1229 and I fail to see how any of these measures
would decrease violent crime or reduce tragedies in any way. I believe
these efforts to impose restrictions on magazine sizes and firearms
ownership are misguided and only serve to harass and threaten law
abiding firearm owners and businesses.

As your constituent, I INSIST you oppose any and all new gun control
schemes - in whatever form it may be.

How will you vote?

Thank you,

[james_bond_007]

Please fix this address in your post:

<brian@bri
andelgrosso.com>

Because the source "breaks across a line" a simple cut and paste copies as an invalid email address.



...
Here is a list of the Judiciary Committee members email addresses:

Carole Murray <murrayhouse45@gmail.com>, Dan Pabon <dan.pabon.house@state.co.us>, Brian Delgrosso <brian@bri
andelgrosso.com>, Joe Salazar <joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us>, Perry Buck <perrybuck49@gmail.com>, Jerry
Sonnenberg <jerry@repsonnenberg.com>, Lois Court <lois.court.house@state.co.us>, Mike McLachlan
<mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us>, Pete Lee <pete.lee.house@state.co.us>, Polly Lawrence
<polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us>, Thomas Exum <thomas.exum.house@state.co.us>, Daniel Kagan
<repkagan@gmail.com>, Mark Waller <mark.waller.house@state.co.us>, Jared Wright
<jared.wright.house@state.co.us>, Su Ryden <su.ryden.house@state.co.us>, Bob Gardner
<bob.gardner.house@state.co.us>, John Buckner <john.buckner.house@state.co.us>, Brittany Pettersen
<brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us>, Crisanta Duran <crisanta.duran.house@state.co.us>

[mahabali]

I just got this response: :)

Dear Mr. J,

Thank you for writing to me on an issue of such importance to Colorado.

I agree that we must do everything possible to protect our second amendment rights. In light of recent tragedies in our own state as well as Connecticut, it is understandable that gun control has taken such precedence in our national dialogue. However, restricting access to firearms and ammunition from law-abiding citizens will not make our streets safer. My colleagues and I will do everything in our power to protect your constitutional right to bear arms for the purposes of recreation and the protection of your family.

Thank you again for sharing your concerns regarding legislation that we anticipate being put forth this year. Please keep in touch with me regarding issues that are important to you and our state.

Sincerely,
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=0a660310b4&view=att&th=13ccb15544b02766&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=d08acaacaecb96fd_0.1&zw&atsh=1
House Minority Leader Mark Waller

[DHC]

This was my email:


To:
Rep. Daniel Kagan, Chair: 303-866-2921, repkagan@gmail.com
Rep. Pete Lee, Vice Chair: 303-866-2932, pete.lee.house@state.co.us
Rep. John Buckner: 303-866-2944, john.buckner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Lois Court: 303-866-2967, lois.court.house@state.co.us
Rep. Bob Gardner, 303-866-2191, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Polly Lawrence, 303-866-2935, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us
Rep. Mike McLachlan, 303-866-2914, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us
Rep. Rep Carole Murray, 303-866-2948, murrayhouse45@gmail.com
Rep. Brittany Pettersen, 303-866-2939, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us
Rep. Joseph Salazar, 303-866-2918, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us
Rep. Jared Wright, 303-866-2583, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

Reference:
HB 1224
HB 1228
HB 1229

This email is to urge you all to vote to defeat the above- referenced house bills. I also urge you to defeat any newly introduced bills that further restrict the legal rights of Colorado citizens to own firearms, ammunition and/or magazines or that require Colorado citizens to submit to onerous/additional processes or costs to acquire firearms, ammunition and/or magazines.

The simple facts are that the referenced house bills:

1. Will have no meaningful impact to deter or prevent gun crime.
2. Serve only to further infringe on the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.
3. Are profoundly anti-business and will result in the loss of Colorado jobs and tax revenues.

There exists ample material available to each of you to prove each point above. Responsible law-makers should be working on meaningful and substantive legislative issues rather than pandering to the knee-jerk and emotional reactions of a few. Most importantly, each one of you need to be reminded of your oath of office and commitment to uphold the Constitution. Anything less should, and will, result in your replacement in upcoming elections and I will do my part to insure it, whether I reside in your district or elsewhere.

I vote. I will work aggressively to unseat any legislator who votes in favor of the above bills. I am watching closely.

[opie011]

Well I've tried from 3 different devises and double, triple checked all the email addresses and the only email that would not come back failed was for Rep. Kegan. All others said Comcast server failure and will not send...

[DeusExMachina]

And, the enemy:


Hi Phil -




Thank you for contacting me.

I have heard from many constituents about gun safety this session. The tragic events of last year in Aurora and Sandy Hook horrified all of us, and provoked me and other elected leaders to take a long hard look at gun violence and its impact on our society.

The vast majority of the constituents from whom I've heard in House District 6 have told me that they want reasonable, but meaningful gun safety regulation for Colorado.

To that end, I’m sponsoring a bill that will end the state subsidy of nearly $2 million which is currently funding the CBI background check program. By having gun purchasers, in all areas – at stores, gun shows, and through private parties – pay about $10 - $12 for their own background checks, we'll free-up these general fund monies for things like mental health issues.

As far as other gun safety bills are concerned, I will be looking at all of them carefully, and co-sponsoring those that I think are fair, and will do the most to prevent further gun violence.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts – I appreciate it- Lois

State Representative Lois Court
200 E. Colfax Room 306
Denver, Colorado 80203
303-866-2967

Click Here to sign up for my newsletter.
www.LoisCourt.com
www.coloradohouse.org

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, including the entire string of e-mails and all attachments, is for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized viewing, use, or retransmission of this email or its attachments is prohibited by law. In the event you are not the intended recipient, your failure to permanently delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies thereof from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts of the e-mail or attachments and any copies of such printouts shall operate as an admission of wrongful possession and use of this email.

[KestrelBike]

A bit far-fetched perhaps, but couldn't the argument be made that Magpul's magazines have saved troops' lives through their reliability and dependability when shits hitting the fan?

[merl]

deusex, I'll make sure to copy Rep Court on my response to the CBI fee. there is a free national system after all, we don't need a redundant setup.

(unless there i something else folks like about the CBI version, like a history being kept)

[Sharpienads]

I just sent my letters. I'll get some phone calls in tomorrow.

[BPTactical]

Typing up 4 pages of handwritten notes to present orally to the Judiciary commitee tomorrow.

We shall see but I dont think they will like me much when I am done[Muaha]
Gonna hit'em where it hurts........

[HoneyBadger]

Typing up 4 pages of handwritten notes to present orally to the Judiciary commitee tomorrow.

We shall see but I dont think they will like me much when I am done[Muaha]
Gonna hit'em where it hurts........


YOU DA MAN! [Awesom]

[Sharpienads]

HB 1228 and 1229 are quite a pair. Make people pay for background checks and make everybody get a background check.

The bill says that the funds collected can only go to the "fund" and if there's any left over at the end of the fiscal year, the remainder will go to try to lower future costs. Somehow I doubt this will happen.

[lowspeed_highdrag]

My letter to all the Reps listed in Magpul's post. I know some of my facts may be off, I dont know if there are millions of magazines in circulation across CO, but I would love to believe that there were. Its lengthy and long winded, and I stole a few sentences from magpul regarding the CBI background check. I'm not a professional writer, so bear with me....




To all of my Colorado "representatives" and elected politicians,


The Constitution of the United States, Bill of Rights Amendment II, reads:


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


The Constitution of Colorado, Article II section 13, reads:


The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.


Colorado Revised Statute 29-11.7-102 reads as follows:
C.R.S. 29-11.7-102 (2012)
29-11.7-102. Firearms database - prohibited
(1) A local government, including a law enforcement agency, shall not maintain a list or other form of record or database of:
(a) Persons who purchase or exchange firearms or who leave firearms for repair or sale on consignment;
(b) Persons who transfer firearms, unless the persons are federally licensed firearms dealers;
(c) The descriptions, including serial numbers, of firearms purchased, transferred, exchanged, or left for repair or sale on consignment.




I can only hope and pray that each of you were familiar with the US and Colorado Constitutions, and while I can not expect you to know C.R.S., I certainly expect you to understand it after you have read it. Four bills have been introduced on the floor recently.


HB13-1224 Prohibiting “Large Capacity” Magazines
HB13-1229 Universal Background Checks
HB13-1226 No Concealed Carry at Colleges
HB13-1228 Payment for Background Checks on Firearms Transfers


As a former Marine, current Colorado Law Enforcement Officer, tax-payer, citizen, American, and patriot, I can not support these bills, and therefore can not support any politician who does. Attempting to infringe on my rights as outlined by the Second Amendment (US) and Section 13 (CO) is a direct violation of the oath that each and everyone of you took, as well as the oath that I swore.


HB13-1229 would outlaw private transfers of firearms between two law-abiding citizens. As it stands currently, its is illegal to sell to a felon, and therefore a law-abiding citizen would follow the law and not sell to said felon. That citizen still maintains the ability to sell to his law-abiding friend, brother, father-in-law, and fellow citizen alike. If this bill is passed, the ONLY way to enforce it would be through registration, which is strictly forbidden in C.R.S. 29-11.7-102. Firearm registration has a long history of leading to confiscation, as most Coloradans understand. Because of this, many law-abiding citizens in Colorado will refuse to register their legal firearms afforded to them by the CO and US Constitution, and they will become felons. Once free and civil Americans will now be felons in the eye of the law. Where will you house these people? Our County Jail Facilities are already operating at near max capacity. Our DOC facilities are not equipped to hold mass pre-trial offenders. Where will you find the Law Enforcement Officers to enforce these unconstitutional laws? Many CO Sheriff's have already stated they will not enforce unconstitutional firearms laws, and the majority of officers across the state stand with them. I will not register my firearms, what will you do with me?


HB13-1224 would prohibit "large capacity" magazines. Thousands upon thousands of Colorado gun owners own firearms that accept 30-round magazines. Millions of these magazines are currently in circulation across the state, and millions more are on backorder, waiting to be delivered to Colorado homes. And yet, these millions of magazines for the thousands of semi-automatic firearms in Colorado have never caused problems, and have in fact been used in so few crimes that forks and hammers are a far larger danger to society than the possession and use of a standard-capacity magazine (Magazines that hold 30-rounds are considered "standard capacity", not high capacity). Magazine limits and bans have proven to only hurt and hinder the law abiding citizen, and they have not stopped criminals, case in point is the North Hollywood Bank Robbery during the 94 AWB. The Columbine Massacre is an instance where people were killed by a shooter using a firearm equipped with 10-round magazines, would this law have stopped that shooting? And why limit us to 10 rounds? Why not go for 7 like the NY State Legislature recently did? They effectively created thousands of felons in the blink of an eye out of law-abiding-citizens, do you aim to do the same to us?


HB13-1226 would prohibit the carry of concealed firearms on a college campus. This bill may be the most laughable of all four. In order to recieve my Concealed Carry Permit in Colorado, I had to show proof of extensive firearms training, as well as training in Use of Force legalities. My County Sheriff then had to review my background and history, CBI did and extensive background check and took my fingerprints, and then I was cleared to carry a concealed firearm. All permit holders in the state have proven to be responsible and upstanding citizens. A "gun free" zone only disarms the responsible citizens, a "gun free" zone only creates a virtual shooting-gallery of unarmed and defenseless victims for the evil elements in our society. Our college campus' currently have hundreds, if not thousands, of responsible permit holders as students and faculty who have done NOTHING wrong, and yet you are attempting to disarm them. What instances do you have where a permit-holder killed someone with their firearm on a college campus? As it stands right now, people have the right and ability to defend themselves and others from those who wish to kill them, and yet your goal is to rob them of that defense. That is sickening.


HB13-1228 Payment for Background Checks for Gun Transfers-- a measure that would require CO residents to pay for the back logged state-run CBI system (currently taking 3 times the federally mandated wait time for checks to occur) instead of using the free federal NICS checks.


I urge you all to consider your oath, to consider the Constitutions of the United States and Colorado, to consider the law, and to guide your votes with logic and reason, not emotion. Consider that if these bills were to pass, thousands of Colorado citizens (men and women who are veterans, police officers, doctors, scientists, teachers, bankers, hunters, fathers, mothers, etc) would not comply, and would become felons overnight. Many will leave the state, many will stay and defy unconstitutional laws, some will passively resist, and I am sure some will resist more aggressively. Jobs will be lost, not in the hundreds, but in the thousands. Industrial magnates such as Magpul will uproot and bring their business elsewhere, and gun stores/sporting goods stores across the state will close their doors for the last time. The divide that exists among Coloradans today will grow exponentially larger. And when it comes time to vote for all of you, we will not forget those who sold us down the river, we will not forget those who stood up for freedom and voted against these bills, and we will ensure that each and everyone of are held accountable for your votes. I am a Colorado citizen, and a citizen of these United States of America, you serve me, you serve the people, you serve the Constitution of our state and country, you do not serve your own special interests. Please, do the right thing.


Sincerely,
...............

[sniper7]

Guys! These emails need to be short and sweet. Tell them to vote no or you will fund their opposition when their reelection cones up and volunteer against them. Or they are killing jobs. Or facts and history prove criminals dont care what laws are on the books. Write a new email each day. Call each day. Short and sweet and consistent

[def90]

My letter to all the Reps listed in Magpul's post. I know some of my facts may be off, I dont know if there are millions of magazines in circulation across CO, but I would love to believe that there were. Its lengthy and long winded, and I stole a few sentences from magpul regarding the CBI background check. I'm not a professional writer, so bear with me....

Your letter will never get read.. 3 sentences will get more play than the most logical and thought out multi-page letter.


Simply tell them you are a voter and that you expect that they will vote no to these bills.

[osok-308]

Ill be moving with them.

I thought about it for a minute. Magpul is a fantastic company, and if their top notch products had not already done it for me, this letter alone would have made me a lifetime customer of theirs. We all owe it to them to fight on their behalf, as well as the behalf of almost 1000 fellow Coloradans.

[lowspeed_highdrag]

Your letter will never get read.. 3 sentences will get more play than the most logical and thought out multi-page letter.


Simply tell them you are a voter and that you expect that they will vote no to these bills.
I realize that the general consensus of this board is that because a staffer may have wrote someone an email about being concise then it must be that way, but many of us have been writing our reps for years before this and have been receiving real responses....

[Aloha_Shooter]

I realize that the general consensus of this board is that because a staffer may have wrote someone an email about being concise then it must be that way, but many of us have been writing our reps for years before this and have been receiving real responses....

I think the staffer advice was spot on. I felt my own e-mail was drifting to the overly lengthy side myself but I wanted to give a single digestible argument on each one of the four pieces of legislation. "War and Peace" above just won't be read by the people that need to read it -- the legislators. An incomplete argument they read and ignore (but remember) is better than a complete argument they ignore and don't bother to read and therefore don't remember.

[n8tive97]

I've been posting this all over FB too... along with that I have emailed these state senators. I hope many of you are doing the same thing [Beer]


I did as well. This is crap!

[mountainjenny]

FWIW. I wrote this email and sent it to all the email addresses I could find. I received 3 responses, all from pro 2A'ers. I can tell from the responses that two of them probably never made it past the first sentence or two. So there may be something to the length.

My Personal Story Regarding HB 1224

Hello,

I am writing to express my concern for the future of gun owners in Colorado. It is my understanding that several bills are being proposed regarding gun control.


My main concern regarding the proposed bills is HB 1224, Prohibiting Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines. I am especially concerned about the passage of this bill. Following explains a little about why...


I currently own and operate an environmental consulting company in Colorado. Part of the work I am involved in, throughout the state, involves field work in remote areas, working alone and often without cellphone service. In 2007, I decided to train for and apply for my Concealed Carry Permit in Park County Colorado. My main motivation for this was the unfortunate and tragic death of a young woman named Alyssa Herberton-Morimoto. I did not know Alyssa personally or what her opinions in this matter might be, but her story impacted me greatly. She was working in a remote area of Park County in the summer of 2007, when a convicted felon with a history of murder, by the name of Robert R. Amos strangled her and dragged her body to a nearby creek. It was this incident that made me realize, I only have myself to rely on in these woods. The area is so remote, the police response time cannot be quick enough to stop an attacker (human or wildlife). I could have easily been in the wrong place at the wrong time, or met up with the wrong individual(s) on any given day while working. These feelings are true today as I work alone in remote areas. The work I perform is similar to the work Alyssa was performing and in a very similar setting.


In response to this tragic event, I purchased my first handgun. I chose a gun with a relatively small frame and small caliber size. I do not have a very large stature (5'5" 120lbs) and a smaller weapon is ideal for concealment while allowing me to continue to perform my work tasks. One of the main features of this firearm that sold me on the purchase was the "higher capacity" magazine. The firearm (.380 caliber) has a 15 round magazine. I chose this magazine not because it can cause a greater amount of damage, but because it offered me the most protection!


I urge you to please vote against HB 1224 banning "high capacity" magazines in the state of Colorado. This law will only impact the law abiding citizens like myself, who chose "high capacity" magazines for defense purposes. HB1224 will have little impact on mentally disturbed individuals or people who have true evil within their hearts. I am sensitive to the mental health and gun violence crisis' we have occurring throughout this country, but bills such as these will not adequately address the issues facing the nation and will not serve to make Colorado a safer place to live.


I appreciate the opportunity to express to you my opinions regarding this issue.




For more information on the death of Alyssa Herberton-Morimoto.


http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6256419


http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_6243761


Sincerely,

[islandermyk]

Magpul has some updates on their Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/magpul

[buckeye4rnr]

Vote no on each of these or I will fund your opposition and I will volunteer against you.

These laws do nothing but make law abiding citizens less safe and will be directly responsible for almost 1,000 jobs lost in this state.


That's what I've been writing in my emails

[Ronin13]

Magpul has some updates on their Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/magpul
Hell yeah, this made me smile:
"Standing room only in the hearing room, and in the entire Capitol. LOTS of pro 2A activity."
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/11323_558850560793964_1826661057_n.jpg

[Jer]

Hell yeah, this made me smile:
"Standing room only in the hearing room, and in the entire Capitol. LOTS of pro 2A activity."
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/11323_558850560793964_1826661057_n.jpg

Thank you for posting and I'm SO glad to see this. I really wanted to throw on a suit and show up to say my piece as an upstanding & fervent supporter of 2A but wasn't able to make it. I'm glad to see that the silent majority made their voices known today and hope that it sets the tone moving forward. Good for everyone who made it and thank you all for speaking on our behalf!

[Dingo]

God bless every single Pro-2A champion in that room, who took time out of their schedule to represent us in the good fight. We thank you!

[Ronin13]

Thank you for posting and I'm SO glad to see this. I really wanted to throw on a suit and show up to say my piece as an upstanding & fervent supporter of 2A but wasn't able to make it. I'm glad to see that the silent majority made their voices known today and hope that it sets the tone moving forward. Good for everyone who made it and thank you all for speaking on our behalf!
MAGPUL keeps posting stuff from this- they have one picture of their van outside the capital. I really wish I could be there too!

[Sharpienads]

MAGPUL keeps posting stuff from this- they have one picture of their van outside the capital. I really wish I could be there too!


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/485320_558803737465313_2098728623_n.jpg

[Jer]

MAGPUL keeps posting stuff from this- they have one picture of their van outside the capital. I really wish I could be there too!

Yeah, I saw that one. Very cool and sends a good message as well.

[KAPA]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22572461/major-battle-over-gun-bills-set-tuesday-at

Here is a link to the LIVE video of it all.

[MED]

MAGPUL keeps posting stuff from this- they have one picture of their van outside the capital. I really wish I could be there too!

I went over there and signed up; there were people lined up down the halls. There is overflow in the basement committee rooms. I am back at my desk listening to the hearing. There were far more people there against then for.

Legislative Audio http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=5

I talked to the Magpul lobbyist for a few minutes.

[Ronin13]

There were far more people there against then for.
This is good news- let's hope it makes an impact... except that Democrats, by and large, don't listen very well, so I expect some resistance.

[liberty19]

This is great to see and hear. I wish I was there too. Thanks to all who took the time to show up and represent us. Yeah, the liberals don't listen very well but they do recognize when their jobs are in jeopardy and I hope that is what they are recognizing today.

[sniper7]

Keep on the pressure. Then vote them the hell out. Time for recalls as well.

[Sharpienads]

Rep Gardner just identified the "gun gifting loophole" as it pertains to HB 1229. You can't trade guns with each other, but you can gift them to each other.

[Jer]

Rep Gardner just identified the "gun gifting loophole" as it pertains to HB 1229. You can't trade guns with each other, but you can gift them to each other.

Yep. Shit is getting real.

[blacklabel]

Legislative Audio http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=5

Thanks for this. I've been trying to find a way to listen at work.

I hate the sick feeling I have in my gut listening to this.

[Jer]

Ron Sloan, director of CBI, just rattled off a bunch of numbers that amounted to fewer than 1% of all background checks ultimately denied the purchase of a firearm. Does anyone honestly think this is doing any good? Honestly people. Wake up!

[DeusExMachina]

Ron Sloan, director of CBI, just rattled off a bunch of numbers that amounted to fewer than 1% of all background checks ultimately denied the purchase of a firearm. Does anyone honestly think this is doing any good? Honestly people. Wake up!

Listening to that too. VERY interesting. The guy is audibly nervous.

And that's those that were appealed. There was roughly 15000 denials (2.1%) last year, half of those appealed, and half of those appeals resulted in being overturned. 1912 of those ~15000 denials would not have been caught by NICS, supposedly.

[blacklabel]

And now they've got a former special agent from ATF.

[DeusExMachina]

Did anyone catch his supposed statistics on the % of private transferred firearms used in crimes?

I don't understand why he's talking about Oklahoma City and 9/11.

[.455_Hunter]

SORRY- Wrong thread...

New story on DP about some D committee members wanting to increase to 15 rds?

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22573432/colorado-house-committee-likely-ask-15-round-magazine

Fields opposes this increase. Is this maybe how the bill will die???

[blacklabel]

I don't understand why he's talking about Oklahoma City and 9/11.

Sensationalism.

Now he's bringing up the ease of purchasing through Armslist. More sensationalism by using a high school senior as an example.

[Sharpienads]

And now they've got a former special agent from ATF.

All I hear him saying is criminals break laws.

What the hell will more laws do to stop them?

ETA: This ATF agent makes me want to puke. Hopefully Rep Gardner is about to rip him a new one.

[DeusExMachina]

Sensationalism.

Now he's bringing up the ease of purchasing through Armslist. More sensationalism by using a high school senior as an example.

He's brutally attacking Colorado's gun market with lies.

[Jer]

Listening to that too. VERY interesting. The guy is audibly nervous.

And that's those that were appealed. There was roughly 15000 denials (2.1%) last year, half of those appealed, and half of those appeals resulted in being overturned. 1912 of those ~15000 denials would not have been caught by NICS, supposedly.

FYI, one of those was my mother. A 59 year old woman fighting cancer that lives alone in an apartment complex in Fort Collins. She had an arrest in the 70's (before I was even born) and was denied due to the 'deny on arrest' clause in the state of Colorado. Wow... I sure feel like we dodged a bullet there. Who knows what evil she could have pulled off with a Glock 26 if approved. /sarcasm

[blacklabel]

He's brutally attacking Colorado's gun market with lies.

And he's not even from Colorado.

[hollohas]

Did this cop just say that anyone can buy a gun at a gun show in COLORADO without a BC?

[Jer]

Did this cop just say that anyone can buy a gun at a gun show in COLORADO without a BC?

I thought LE was sworn to UPHOLD the law not change them. I guess I have my checks and balances out of whack.

Also, I keep hearing about 'incremental steps' and one of which would be a good example in post #83 above. We don't need MORE incremental steps.

A telling line of HIS testimony was when he painted the picture of the individuals in the theater in Aurora... all I could think of was how he and others were helping keep them unarmed. These laws do NOTHING to help those in these horrific situations they're using to further their cause. Nothing. Hell, several times people have admitted that none of these measures would have prevented a single incident mentioned.

[DeusExMachina]

80% of criminals acquired a gun through a private sale, according to this woman from Golden.

So we're including stolen guns sold on the street? Straw purchased for criminals? Absolute lies.

[Jer]

80% of criminals acquired a gun through a private sale, according to this woman from Golden.

So we're including stolen guns sold on the street? Straw purchased for criminals? Absolute lies.

I love her 'statistic' in rebuttal to his stats in the UK how firearm murders rose from 13k prior to control to over 21k in the subsequent years on how they removed background checks in MO and the streets were 'flooded with guns'... Uhmkay. Is that a quantifiable term in any way? No. What about gun crime since that's the ultimate goal here?

[mahabali]

I cant even watch. Getting too pissed. Need to take a break and lower my blood pressure.

[Jmetz]

How long is recess? I didn't catch it.

[asmo]

Lots of suspenders in that live video of the recess.. Just saying.

[asmo]

All the Anti's have is fear and emotion..

Someone needs to call this out - plainly and effectlvely.. I so wish I wasn't stuck on the right coast.

Really chick - if this law was passed back then you would be able to walk. Really the criminal that shot you would magically have no longer had guns.. How interesting.

[blacklabel]

And more made up statistics from a fudd.

[asmo]

..according to NEWS accounts.. 'could' have been...

I hate people more and more every day..

[DHC]

..according to NEWS accounts.. 'could' have been...

I hate people more and more every day..

Yep - that was a response by Amy Miller to a question about the number of women who were killed in CO in 2011 that would have been prevented if HB 1229 were in effect. Her response was that 34 women were killed by DV in 2011 and of those, 11 could have been prevented . . . according to news accounts.

Feeble argument, but only to those who seek to legislate on the basis of established fact and not the reports by some unnamed news agency.

[asmo]

The full quote from Scalia



Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

[DeusExMachina]

This guy can go to hell. TRAITOR.

[asmo]

"I think its entirely reasonable to give up some gun rights.."

If thats the case:
I think its entirely reasonable to kill some people when they have committed no crime...
I think its entirely reasonable to prevent some people from breeding..
I think its entirely reasonable for some people to have rights..
etc. etc. etc.

[mobbs]

I've been posting this all over FB too... along with that I have emailed these state senators. I hope many of you are doing the same thing [Beer]
Done!

[asmo]

I don't understand the whole "Only have time for a few more people.."

[DeusExMachina]

I don't understand the whole "Only have time for a few more people.."

On the proponents side. The time for the logical to testify is about to come.

[DeusExMachina]

This Boulderite is hilarious.

[buckeye4rnr]

This woman is crazy.

[KAPA]

Obviously they are on to a pretty good thing here with their business. They make plenty of other products that are still perfectly legal and surely there will be a need for 10 and 15 round Pmags in the future as more and more states get screwed over by the dems like CO did tonight. I mean there is still a fair chance that the whole country gets limited to 10 round mags. In that case, moving to another state won't help them one bit.

I don't know how their operation works but I could imagine them opening up a manufacturing location up in Wyoming and just produce magazines up there with everything else still running as normal here in CO.

The way I understand the bill (and please correct me if I am wrong), people in CO can still have their 30 round mags but you just can't buy new ones with a manufacture date after July 1, 2013. If Magpul produces them in WY under their law, there is no date on them and they could just open a store on the border and sell them to Coloradans all day long. The way I read it, the burden is on the police to prove when you bought it. Just make sure to pay cash and throw that receipt away!

Oh yeah, and does a 15 round AR mag even exist? I have seen 10/20/30 and all the "junk" after that but never a 15 rounder.

[Mick-Boy]

I wouldn't presume to speak for them, but what I'd like to see is Magpul move their entire business out of state and refuse to sell anything to CO entities. No dept purchases, no agency purchases, nothing.

But then I tend to be a "if you can't win the game you might as well destroy the arena" kind of guy.

[KAPA]

I hear that... I just think that from a business perspective it may not be that cost effective to pull it all up right now and lay down roots somewhere else. All it takes is for a national ban on high cap mags and they are right back where they started.

I think after watching all this BS tonight, it was pretty clear that Magpul was their main target. I also don't think for a second that the Dem Reps that brought this bill up had anything to do with authoring it. I would bet this came from a group on a national level with direct aim at Magpul.

Would be nice if Magpul would throw its Colorado supporters a bone and flood the CO market with Pmags instead of sending them out of state. They will have plenty of time to do that after this summer. There is no doubt they could sell them all and they wouldnt have to worry about shipping costs either.

[Lucas]

But then I tend to be a "if you can't win the game you might as well destroy the arena" kind of guy.

I'm with Mick-boy. If this passes the rest of the votes, it's not Magpul's fault, it's the folks that vote to pass such bs laws. Let the state realize what they've done when they loose all that revenue and all those jobs when this industry leader pulls up stakes and moves on down the road!

[ShelbyJK500]

Sickening!! ...that is all.

[Byte Stryke]

Rumors ...

There is a large Business park in Smyrna where a company might set up shop... almost next to GLOCK
had Visitors last week, only listed as "a large firearms plastics manufacturer"

could be Thermold... or not

[blacklabel]

I wouldn't presume to speak for them, but what I'd like to see is Magpul move their entire business out of state and refuse to sell anything to CO entities. No dept purchases, no agency purchases, nothing.

But then I tend to be a "if you can't win the game you might as well destroy the arena" kind of guy.

I'm with you on this. I'd like to see Magpul say screw your manufacturing exceptions, you're infringing on the second and we will not support this state any longer.

[AR_ART]

My understanding of the bill is that you can keep your existing 30 round magazines, and going forward, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution if you get 30 rounders after the restriction goes into affect. I would think this would force manufacturers to stamp dates on their magazines...

[blacklabel]

According to testimony yesterday, Magpul has been date stamping their magazines since 2007.

There are obviously more manufacturers than Magpul but they're the foremost manufacturer of AR magazines.

[missionxo]

I wouldn't presume to speak for them, but what I'd like to see is Magpul move their entire business out of state and refuse to sell anything to CO entities. No dept purchases, no agency purchases, nothing.

But then I tend to be a "if you can't win the game you might as well destroy the arena" kind of guy.

I 100% agree with you

[sniper7]

I want them to raise their prices $1+ per mags and use those funds to put each of the yes votes out of a job.

[battle_sight_zero]

I

But then I tend to be a "if you can't win the game you might as well destroy the arena" kind of guy.

I believe nationwide there should be a movement to ban purchasing products from states like Colorado , New York and California. California and New York won't care but Colorado counts on it tourism and farming dollars. imagine that if this State stood to loose just 10 percent of its Revenue each year from a boycott by and others. Infringe on our rights and face the piper. Heck if Colorado saw a drop in its hunting revenue it would have a tremendous impact. The only way the Dems will listen is to take their money away. The same strategy worked for the Gay marriage/civil union supporters and I believe 2nd supporters nation wide could send a wake up call to our legislatiors and Govenor by doing so.

[merl]

According to testimony yesterday, Magpul has been date stamping their magazines since 2007.

There are obviously more manufacturers than Magpul but they're the foremost manufacturer of AR magazines.

month and year of manufacture, not day
(the little circle with the 12 digits around the outside and the arrow in it)

There is a huge difference updating the mold for every cast (serial #) vs once a month

[def90]

I don't know how their operation works but I could imagine them opening up a manufacturing location up in Wyoming and just produce magazines up there with everything else still running as normal here in CO..

Why would they do that? Double the overhead? The only smart business decision would be to move the whole company.

[DHCO]

My understanding of the bill is that you can keep your existing 30 round magazines, and going forward, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution if you get 30 rounders after the restriction goes into affect. I would think this would force manufacturers to stamp dates on their magazines...

You can still grind off the date of any magazines you purchase in Wyoming. It's not illegal and there is no way to prove possession after the laws enactment without the manufacturing date. Of course you'll be stuck with gen 2 and 3 mags.

[blacklabel]

month and year of manufacture, not day
(the little circle with the 12 digits around the outside and the arrow in it)

There is a huge difference updating the mold for every cast (serial #) vs once a month

The lack of an exact date wasn't discussed during testimony.

Magpul did state that including a serial number would constitute an undue burden.

[Great-Kazoo]

My understanding of the bill is that you can keep your existing 30 round magazines, and going forward, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution if you get 30 rounders after the restriction goes into affect. I would think this would force manufacturers to stamp dates on their magazines...

Alll metal / Al mag mfg date stamp their mags. and or mark them restricted LE/Mil. It's easy to see on all of them, Unless you only own magpul's. Including a date stamp in the mold process isn't that hard, just some retooling/ initial cost

[BigDee]

If I were Magpul I would be looking for my next home in a different state than Colorado.

[merl]

If I were Magpul I would be looking for my next home in a different state than Colorado.

yep. they have 4 months from now if this passes, means getting another location leased & setup now. Good chance they are gone pass or not.

[MarkCO]

MagPul has a unique business model. With under 200 actual employees, but about 700 additional people employed as suppliers and vendors. When it comes to magazines, they merely find a different vendor out of state, take their molds from the current vendor and deliver to the new vendor and walla, no big deal to them. I certainly hope that if the bill actually gets signed into law, they move their employees and entire business out of state, it may take a while to do so. There will be about 400 to 500 jobs in Colorado affected, incluidng some companies we deal with as well.

Next week, we are set to release the new, and very cool one piece magazine tube for the Versa-Max. We can NOT afford make the 10 round tube and we may not be able to make the 8 round tube depending on how the final law reads...if it passes. For a small company, it is a significant loss for us if this happens. We will likley source the tubes out of state and only be able to sell through dealers which may allow us to recoup some of our R&D, but there will likely be little if any revenue generated as a result.

[GlockDog47]

More jobs lost! B.S.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

All my pmags have a date stamp already it's on the the left side it's a circle numbered 1 through 12 with a arrow and a 1 on either side of the arrow the mag I'm looking at was made 5/11. So no extra process will be needed they have been dating they're mags for some time now

[mahabali]

This is truly disgusting. I watched most of this last night. I have a shit ton of Pmags for sale on GB. I guess I will pull them and hold on to them.

[merl]

All my pmags have a date stamp already it's on the the left side it's a circle numbered 1 through 12 with a arrow and a 1 on either side of the arrow the mag I'm looking at was made 5/11. So no extra process will be needed they have been dating they're mags for some time now

as has been stated, date is not just month and year. though that could be ammended
adding a unique serial number is a major undertaking.

[Great-Kazoo]

as has been stated, date is not just month and year. though that could be ammended
adding a unique serial number is a major undertaking.

LE's (the majority) never had a clue between 94-04 and to date what a pre ban / post ban was. NFA Form 1 etc. realistically they are uninformed, which tends to be dangerous. However based on my interaction with LE here in CO. IF you are polite & courteous they reciprocate. Even with a truck full of guns have any of them asked me if they could check them out.

[sniper7]

How many of you have ever had your guns checked? I never have. Just sayin

[hatidua]

How many of you have ever had your guns checked? I never have. Just sayin

Twice. Once with an NFA item, once with a simple side by side.

[stenz]

If and when this passes, one could just have someone out of state buy the mags for them and then have them shipped here.

[sniper7]

Twice. Once with an NFA item, once with a simple side by side.

Hunting or at the range? I can see hunting as i have had my muzzleloader looked at by cdow. But im wondering about at ranges, leo interactions while driving or walking, at the range, on public ground etc.

[DHCO]

There is no law against defacing a magazine. So you can grind off the date stamp of the Magpul magazine or deface any other magazine to render the date stamp unreadable. So unless you have a style of magazine only made after the law is enacted, there is absolutely no way for them to enforce it. Plus, unless you are committing a crime with the guns I seriously doubt the police are going to inspect your magazines.

[wreave]

Hunting or at the range? I can see hunting as i have had my muzzleloader looked at by cdow. But im wondering about at ranges, leo interactions while driving or walking, at the range, on public ground etc.

If you're not hunting, do they have any standing to check guns? I'd refuse on principle.

[Ronin13]

If and when this passes, one could just have someone out of state buy the mags for them and then have them shipped here.
But if they have a manufactured date on them and it's past the ban date and you're caught good bye. Hence why I think I'm just going to start saving now, pack my guns up and say F*** you liberal ass Colorado!

[whichfinger]

Magpul's response: http://www.guns.com/2013/02/12/magpul-responds-to-proposed-colorado-magazine-capacity-limit/

[vossman]

I emailed Magpul last night and thanked them for making great products told them if they left Co I'd understand and wish them well.

[stenz]

But if they have a manufactured date on them and it's past the ban date and you're caught good bye. Hence why I think I'm just going to start saving now, pack my guns up and say F*** you liberal ass Colorado!

Just buy mags without the manufacture date. Or like others said... deface the mag. Its not against the law.

[Singlestack]

http://kdvr.com/2013/02/13/colorado-company-could-be-forced-to-move-lawmakers-restrict-gun-magazines/

Will be a shame to lose them, but I agree with them if 1224 becomes law...

[Ridge]

They have my full support to pack up and leave if the bill gets passed.

[Rucker61]

I vote for Cheyenne, if they need a procurement/operations manager.

[Ridge]

Last thing we want is 18 wheelers loaded up with Pmags getting blown over on the interstate.

[Teufelhund]

Last thing we want is 18 wheelers loaded up with Pmags getting blown over on the interstate.

Unless I can follow in my pickup to help them clean up.

[Dave]

Don't think for a minute that if Magpul leaves that the state won't replace the lost tax revenues from other sources like property, sales and income taxes.

[sellersm]

Don't think for a minute that if Magpul leaves that the state won't replace the lost tax revenues from other sources like property, sales and income taxes.

And MMJ and pot? [Coffee]

[MED]

It would be really nice if they could have a Colorado Day before leaving town...sell off their inventory of pmags and accessories to us before moving; maybe give a portion of it to RMGO or something. This would be the best advertising strategy they could possibly do with gun owners as well as giving the legislature the finger.

[lowbeyond]

They need to leave, even if this bill fails to pass. The writing is on the wall....

[Dave]

And MMJ and pot? [Coffee]
Tax free to keep their voters happy? [dig]

[Zundfolge]

Don't think for a minute that if Magpul leaves that the state won't replace the lost tax revenues from other sources like property, sales and income taxes.

TABOR stops them (for now ... of course if the demonrats stay in control here too long they'll find a way to eliminate TABOR and then we're going to be California on steroids).

[Singlestack]

It would be really nice if they could have a Colorado Day before leaving town...sell off their inventory of pmags and accessories to us before moving; maybe give a portion of it to RMGO or something. This would be the best advertising strategy they could possibly do with gun owners as well as giving the legislature the finger.

I sent a note to Magpul 2 weeks ago asking if they would consider a group buy for this forum members. Was hoping some Shot Show 2012 interaction I had with them on their LE catalog photo shoot would give me an "in", but no dice. No response to that or a follow-up note I sent. Oh well...

[merl]

They need to leave, even if this bill fails to pass. The writing is on the wall....

I agree, they have just been told to GTFO by the state govt.

[osok-308]

It would be really nice if they could have a Colorado Day before leaving town...sell off their inventory of pmags and accessories to us before moving; maybe give a portion of it to RMGO or something. This would be the best advertising strategy they could possibly do with gun owners as well as giving the legislature the finger.

I wish. That would be the best possible thing they could do!

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Can't blame them either. How the hell do you stay in a state that doesn't support your product. Eff you law makers.

[dwalker460]

I vote for Cheyenne, if they need a procurement/operations manager.


The last thing they need is a Liberal working for them. Hows that vote for Obama and the rest of the Dems you supported looking now?


Will be a shame to lose Magpul, but thats what is going to happen if these silly Dems dont listen to the public of Colorado.

[Ronin13]

Can't blame them either. How the hell do you stay in a state the government doesn't support your product. Eff you law makers.
I'm sure a good 90% of gun owners here support them... [Beer] But I concur- most of our law makers are pieces of shit.

The last thing they need is a Liberal working for them. Hows that vote for Obama and the rest of the Dems you supported looking now?

Will be a shame to lose Magpul, but thats what is going to happen if these silly Dems dont listen to the public of Colorado.
[ROFL1] As if we needed more proof that Democrats don't give a damn about what the majority of the public says... The age of representation is dead- save for a few, politicians are only in it for themselves now.

[Rucker61]

The last thing they need is a Liberal working for them.



I'm still not a liberal.


Hows that vote for Obama and the rest of the Dems you supported looking now?


I didn't vote for any of the yay-hoos pushing for gun control here in Colorado. I did vote for Sheriff Smith.

[hatidua]

I'd fully support them leaving and wish none of this anti-gun stuff was occurring but let's be honest: Magpul employ's 200 people, which is roughly equivalent to the roster of employees at ten Taco Bell's. In the grand scheme of things, unless you are one of those 200, it's a pretty small number of people.

[bigun1962]

We really need to get a handle on our government. Pot is legal but a Pmag may be not? Really! Does not compute.

[Fmedges]

We really need to get a handle on our government. Pot is legal but a Pmag may be not? Really! Does not compute.

I posted this elsewhere


I'm living in a world where defending yourself is against the law, pot is legal, raping children is ok, drone pilots risk their lives and the cops are judge jury and executioner.

[crob1]

I'm still not a liberal.



I didn't vote for any of the yay-hoos pushing for gun control here in Colorado. I did vote for Sheriff Smith.

Sorry, but this makes my blood boil. So it's OK to vote for a president who only wants gun control on the Federal level? But anyone who wants gun control on the state level, you won't vote for? The rest of the "yay-hoos" are simply following Obama's anti-gun lead. Obama is dismantling the country step by step. This is serious crap we're fighting. If anyone couldn't see what O-hole is motivated by BEFORE his first term, that's one thing. For anyone to vote for him for a second term, who owns firearms, is unbelievable.

[bryjcom]

http://www.facebook.com/magpul/posts/559979554014398


We have now met with CO Governor John Hickenlooper's administration. Message delivered: If House Bill 1224 passes and becomes law, regardless of exemptions or amendments, we will be forced to leave CO, along with our jobs and our tax dollars.

Keep up the pressure! Even if you only vacation in CO, let the Governor know that CO will lose your tourism dollars!

[merl]

and hickenlooper has said FU I'll sign it.
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88791-Hickenlooper-did-it-endorsed-the-magazine-restriction-this-sucks!

[robertcolorado2009]

Right on!!!

[th3w01f]

It is a sad day when an awesome place like CO will end up being a cesspool of stupidity and corruption such as Kalifonya, xxxxxxx, NYC, and Detroit.

I will continue to support Magpul. [Beer]

Didn't Fields specifically mention those places as ones we should try to be more like?

[BPTactical]

Magpul stickers going on the truck tomorrow.

[BPTactical]

Didn't Fields specifically mention those places as ones we should try to be more like?

I believe she did.
Ignorant, self righteous #############

[clworth22]

Shared, so sick of this bs.

[sniper7]

I sent magpul a message asking them to raise the price of their mags at least $1 a piece and to use the money to get these people out of office. I am sure magpul is already working on finding a place so as not to mess up production. I wouldn't be surprised if they left no matter what happens.

[Great-Kazoo]

So instead of WOLVERINES the new cry will be INJECTION MOLDING!

[jhood001]

I wouldn't be surprised if they left no matter what happens.

I would.

[KestrelBike]

Magpul stickers going on the truck tomorrow.

I like this idea. Going to find one of mine and put it on there

Eta: of course now I can't find any of mine. Anyone got a spare?

Eta2: never mind, just bought a bunch of propaganda items from their website!

[brobar]

and hickenlooper has said FU I'll sign it.
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88791-Hickenlooper-did-it-endorsed-the-magazine-restriction-this-sucks!

For those of you with Facebook... let him know that his support of this legislation will be a very bad career decision! https://www.facebook.com/JohnHickenlooper

His page is getting hit pretty hard from 2A supporters outside of the state (hunters, fishermen, travelers).

[DavieD55]

Was first comment on this thred deleted for some reason?

[bryjcom]

Was first comment on this thred deleted for some reason?

No, Don't think so.

[LigersRCool]

I watched a lot of the proceedings live on Denverpost.com and the Mr. Smith for Magpul did a excellent it presenting the case of Magpul and firearm enthusiasts everywhere. He stated more than once that he was against the bill in principal more than for the business part of it. I was impressed by some of the house members too, especially Carole Murray..you could tell she was pro 2nd Amendment. The law was written with too vague and the way I read it before the amendments (havent read them all so dont know if they changed it) was that even if Magpul still made 30 rd magazines in Colorado that they would only be permitted to sell them to police/govt agencies even in other states, so people living in say Texas wouldn't be allowed to buy a Colorado made magazine. Hopefully something good will happen tomorrow..

[trlcavscout]

If the shit heads vote it in I hope Magpul does move (and takes me with them), and I hope they stand their ground and refuse to sell to LE in non-gun friendly states.

[John123]

Good bye and good luck Magpul!

Its a sad day for our state and nation.

I am in shock.

Run on magazines part2 begins now.[panic]

[johngraves2]

did you see the chair high five everyone after it passed. unreal. i can;t believe it.

[John123]

I was thinking of selling some mags on the corner of Broadway and Arapahoe in Boulder. Have a sign like the bums!

[jackthewall81]

No legislation has passed... Right?

[Boulderar15]

Hundreds of jobs and millions of lost $$$ for the state!!

Idiots everywhere...

[John123]

Mag ban passed the house anyway

[Sharpienads]

No legislation has passed... Right?

Correct, not yet.

[Sharpienads]

Mag ban passed

Not yet. Official house vote will be Monday I think, then the Senate still has to vote, and the Gov still has to sign.

[jackthewall81]

Not yet. Official house vote will be Monday I think, then the Senate still has to vote, and the Gov still has to sign.
So why is everyone flippin shit.

[John123]

I thought this was the vote. I was wrong. But the way this is going its going to pass.

[KestrelBike]

So why is everyone flippin shit.

Because it seems to be inevitable, with the ones who are going to vote it in have no reason to vote no

[n8tive97]

Heading to Cheyenne, I hear there is a fireworks style MAG Stand!!! If you want me to pick something up for you, you have to chip in for gas.

[Adawg38]

$100 Pmags!

[Sawin]

Heading to Cheyenne, I hear there is a fireworks style MAG Stand!!! If you want me to pick something up for you, you have to chip in for gas.

When are you going? I'd love to tag along even if only for the people watching, and i'd happy to pitch in for gas.

[rondog]

So, will this make existing 30-rd. mags illegal? Or just outlaw new ones?

[Ronin13]

So, will this make existing 30-rd. mags illegal? Or just outlaw new ones?
As written what you have now until the effective date (July 1, 2013 IIRC) is legal, after that date you can't buy any more (used or new), but how will they know when you bought a "pre-ban" mag- so no more newly manufactured ones. Sale, transfer, manufacture in CO will be illegal after 7/1/13. Here I come WY!!!

[Kraven251]

As written what you have now until the effective date (July 1, 2013 IIRC) is legal, after that date you can't buy any more (used or new), but how will they know when you bought a "pre-ban" mag- so no more newly manufactured ones. Sale, transfer, manufacture in CO will be illegal after 7/1/13. Here I come WY!!!

...but I didn't buy these in CO, that would be a fun loophole, until they charged you with felony possession

[Sawin]

...but I didn't buy these in CO, that would be a fun loophole, until they charged you with felony possession

Trafficking over state lines...

[Drucker]

prove it

I guess now I will have to get that CD
"Damn it feels good to be a gangsta"

[fly boy]

When are you going? I'd love to tag along even if only for the people watching, and i'd happy to pitch in for gas.



Let me know when you guys are coming up!!! We have a pint!!

[brutal]

Damn, where is that 100 mag DSG mag order when I need it... [Bang]

I wish I didn't, but it's looking pretty dismal.

I saw one thread that there is one confirmed Dem against but don't know if he was House or Senate.

[Ronin13]

From Chris Holbert (R):
"Friends, please note that voice votes are used during Second Reading. The bill(s) has not passed completely, just Second Reading debate. The final, Third Reading vote, will be a recorded vote. That vote cannot occur on the same day and must take place at least the next day. We will all push the Red "No" button or the Green "Yes" button. The public will see the name board, the vote of each member, and the total vote Yes/No. 33 votes are required to pass a bill through the House."
Monday is when they do the official, recorded vote... if it passes we'll be able to see who we need to recall and have kicked out of the general assembly.

[Dr_Fwd]

From Magpul FB page




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
MAGPUL INDUSTRIES ANNOUNCES IT WILL LEAVE COLORADO IF GUN BILL PASSES

MOVE WOULD COST STATE 600 JOBS, $85 MILLION

Denver, Colorado – February 15th, 2013 - Magpul Industries, an Erie, Colorado, based manufacturer of firearms accessories, announced today that it will be forced to leave the state if House Bill 1224, which would ban standard capacity magazines, becomes law. The announcement was made to Governor Hickenlooper, state legislators, members of the media, and in a full-page advertisement to appear in the Denver Post on Sunday.

Richard Fitzpatrick, Founder, President, and CEO of Magpul Industries, said that regardless of any amendments that may be worked into the bill, he will no longer be able to continue to do business in Colorado if his core product is made illegal.

“Our company could not, in good conscience, continue to manufacture our products in a state where law-abiding citizens are prohibited from purchasing and owning them. ” Fitzpatrick said. “The passage of this bill will do nothing to enhance public safety, but will force us to immediately begin taking our business to another state.”

A proponent of the bill argued that with the amendment language, the choice to stay or leave was up to Magpul. Fitzpatrick responded, "Our relationship with our customers across the country would be severely damaged if this bill passes and we stay. We've already heard word of potential boycotts if that happens. They (legislators) really need to understand that our customer base is as passionate about freedoms as we are, and staying here if this bill passes would cripple the company. Make no doubt about it...we have no choice, and would be forced to leave in order to save the business."

Magpul cited the example of the Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, which was canceled earlier this year after the organizers announced that it would not permit a popular category of firearm, like the ones Magpul makes accessories for, in the show. Public outcry from the customer base forced exhibitors to withdraw from participation, causing the cancellation of the show, and an estimated loss of $70 million of show revenue for hotels, restaurants, merchants, and other businesses in Pennsylvania, where the show was to be held.

Magpul Industries directly employs 200 people, supports another 400 supply-chain jobs, and contributes over $85 million annually to Colorado’s economy. Doug Smith, Chief Operating Officer for Magpul, says that it is a difficult position to be in. "We could choose to stay in a state that wants our jobs and revenue, but not our products, and lose half the jobs we are fighting to save, or potentially the entire business, when our customers stop buying. Or, we can take the company and those 600 jobs out of Colorado to continue our growth and the growth of American manufacturing in a state that shares our values. This is not really a choice. It's an unfortunate and inevitable result of the actions of the Legislature if this bill passes."

Magpul was started over a decade ago by Fitzpatrick, a former U.S. Marine. It has become one of Colorado’s fastest growing businesses, successfully marketing its products to American and allied military forces, police departments, sporting goods stores, and thousands of responsible private citizens. Fitzpatrick says that the rich western culture and strong values of individual freedom and responsibility, traditionally found in Colorado, were one of the reasons the company chose to remain in the state.

“It is heartbreaking to me, my employees, and their families, to think that we will be forced to leave,” Fitzpatrick said. “But if HB13-1224 passes, we will simply have no choice.”

[islandermyk]

this does break my heart......

[Dr_Fwd]

600 jobs!!!
$85 millions!!!!

[sneakerd]

Thank you Dems. Heartbreaking indeed.

[Singlestack]

Dems would rather toe the party line than take actions that actually might reduce gun violence - even if it hurts their state. How any Coloradoan could re-elect them escapes me.

[Bowtie]

The fight is not over yet. Thank-you Magpul for standing up for our rights.

[MarkCO]

Dems would rather toe the party line than take actions that actually might reduce gun violence - even if it hurts their state. How any Coloradoan could re-elect them escapes me.

PotHeads elected them, but they don't remember why anymore.

[Dr_Fwd]

The sh@t that we witnessing these days is just so wrong in so many levels....
I was born and raised in "country of unarmed citizens" and trust me - it really sucks when so called President starts decide what HE thinks is good for YOU and YOU CANT DO SHIT about it!
What we see happening here now IS THE FIRST STEP TO DISARM YOU so they can CONTROL you!
I've seen the results of it - it is ugly!
WAKE the f@ck UP America!

[Tanium Design]

Well the plot now thickens! More companies are coming in to support Magpul and others around the Country. Alfred Manufacturing, one of the sub-contractors for Magpul is now threatening to move part or all of its operations out of Colorado. It is a large Injection Molding, Stamping and CNC shop that has been in business here since 1948. This is a good thing, its called power of the purse. If more companies follow, there will be a larger outrage and more people getting involved. Im glad these companies are sticking to their guns and not compromising. Magpul is fighting on this BIG TIME and they could have tried to make compromises and refused to. GOOD FOR THEM! Character is what is really lacking in this Country. I wonder which companies will follow next.

[brutal]

Well the plot now thickens! More companies are coming in to support Magpul and others around the Country. Alfred Manufacturing, one of the sub-contractors for Magpul is now threatening to move part or all of its operations out of Colorado. It is a large Injection Molding, Stamping and CNC shop that has been in business here since 1948. This is a good thing, its called power of the purse. If more companies follow, there will be a larger outrage and more people getting involved. Im glad these companies are sticking to their guns and not compromising. Magpul is fighting on this BIG TIME and they could have tried to make compromises and refused to. GOOD FOR THEM! Character is what is really lacking in this Country. I wonder which companies will follow next.

Link?

FWIW, Alfred used to be a client of mine many, many, many years ago...

[M4CDAG]

Link?

FWIW, Alfred used to be a client of mine many, many, many years ago...

"In a last-minute effort to kill the bill, Denver-based Alfred Manufacturing, announced Friday afternoon that if the measure passes, the company will leave the state"

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22598247/colorado-house-opens-debate-ban-high-capacity-ammo

[Geology Rocks]

Are they saying this for all the bills or just the capacity ban?

[spleify]

I just saw it on 9 news that Magpul threatens to leave Colorado if the magazine capacity laws pass.

I am trying to find the story on their website and will update when I find it.

[merl]

*boggle*

[Great-Kazoo]

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/89375-I-wish-Magpul-would

pictured in post #18 where's a mod when it's really needed?;)

"FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
MAGPUL INDUSTRIES ANNOUNCES IT WILL LEAVE COLORADO IF GUN BILL PASSES

MOVE WOULD COST STATE 600 JOBS, $85 MILLION

Denver, Colorado – February 15th, 2013 - Magpul Industries, an Erie, Colorado, based manufacturer of firearms accessories, announced today that it will be forced to leave the state if House Bill 1224, which would ban standard capacity magazines, becomes law. The announcement was made to Governor Hickenlooper, state legislators, members of the media, and in a full-page advertisement to appear in the Denver Post on Sunday.

Richard Fitzpatrick, Founder, President, and CEO of Magpul Industries, said that regardless of any amendments that may be worked into the bill, he will no longer be able to continue to do business in Colorado if his core product is made illegal.

“Our company could not, in good conscience, continue to manufacture our products in a state where law-abiding citizens are prohibited from purchasing and owning them. ” Fitzpatrick said. “The passage of this bill will do nothing to enhance public safety, but will force us to immediately begin taking our business to another state.”

A proponent of the bill argued that with the amendment language, the choice to stay or leave was up to Magpul. Fitzpatrick responded, "Our relationship with our customers across the country would be severely damaged if this bill passes and we stay. We've already heard word of potential boycotts if that happens. They (legislators) really need to understand that our customer base is as passionate about freedoms as we are, and staying here if this bill passes would cripple the company. Make no doubt about it...we have no choice, and would be forced to leave in order to save the business."

Magpul cited the example of the Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, which was canceled earlier this year after the organizers announced that it would not permit a popular category of firearm, like the ones Magpul makes accessories for, in the show. Public outcry from the customer base forced exhibitors to withdraw from participation, causing the cancellation of the show, and an estimated loss of $70 million of show revenue for hotels, restaurants, merchants, and other businesses in Pennsylvania, where the show was to be held.

Magpul Industries directly employs 200 people, supports another 400 supply-chain jobs, and contributes over $85 million annually to Colorado’s economy. Doug Smith, Chief Operating Officer for Magpul, says that it is a difficult position to be in. "We could choose to stay in a state that wants our jobs and revenue, but not our products, and lose half the jobs we are fighting to save, or potentially the entire business, when our customers stop buying. Or, we can take the company and those 600 jobs out of Colorado to continue our growth and the growth of American manufacturing in a state that shares our values. This is not really a choice. It's an unfortunate and inevitable result of the actions of the Legislature if this bill passes."

Magpul was started over a decade ago by Fitzpatrick, a former U.S. Marine. It has become one of Colorado’s fastest growing businesses, successfully marketing its products to American and allied military forces, police departments, sporting goods stores, and thousands of responsible private citizens. Fitzpatrick says that the rich western culture and strong values of individual freedom and responsibility, traditionally found in Colorado, were one of the reasons the company chose to remain in the state.

“It is heartbreaking to me, my employees, and their families, to think that we will be forced to leave,” Fitzpatrick said. “But if HB13-1224
passes, we will simply have no choice.”

http://www.facebook.com/magpul/posts/560455547300132

[MAP]

From Magpul's Facebook page as posted last night:

We're hearing some rumors that the Gov and the Dem caucus think we are bluffing. Just to clarify for them, then...we're not a political company. We dont play political games. We've made our position very clear, very publicly. We would not survive lying to our customer base, nor would we ever consider it. If you pass this, we will leave, and you will own it. We've already got plans in place to get PMAG manufacturing moved rapidly, and the rest of the company will follow. We will make sure to at least have a small remain-behind operation through the 2014 elections so that we can remind folks why we are gone.

Even if the bill fails in the Senate I don't see how they could stay in CO.

Mike

[sniper7]

I'm hopeful they flood the market with pmags in Colorado. Tens of thousand of them. Then, depending on the bs that is written into the law, undated repair kits.

[mahabali]

Here is a good story on it.

http://michellemalkin.com/

[iquack08]

34-31. Passed. Three Dems voted against.

[Skip]

34-31. Passed. Three Dems voted against.

And those three should not be forgotten. It took a lot of courage for them to vote no.

I already wrote Rep Vigil and thanked him for his courage and integrity.

[trlcavscout]

34-31. Passed. Three Dems voted against.

It passed today?

[DD977GM2]

It passed today?

Yep onto the Senate. [Bang]

[Jackrabbit]

It boggles my mind that laws so evenly divided can get made.

There should be at least a 2/3rds majority for legislation.

[DEAGLER]

Pack up Magpul...

[jslo]

And those three should not be forgotten. It took a lot of courage for them to vote no.

I already wrote Rep Vigil and thanked him for his courage and integrity.

Careful with trusting their no votes. They may be in tough districts and got the "OK" to vote no because they didn't need their vote. We already know they voted "for" in the first two readings. Just saying.

[BushMasterBoy]

I read this...

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22613895/colorado-house-debate-gun-bills-again-but-limited

[Cthulhu]

Just got back from watching the vote in the house. Pathetic. I'll post some video later.

[Hoser]

1228 passed.

Bullshit.

[MattR]

I hope magpul leaves out of principle either way, not likely that it won't pass completely now.

[Ghosty]

Who were the other two that voted against? Did any Repubs vote for it?

[tmleadr03]

Drop a line to the Senators.

Irene.aguilar.senate@state.co.us, bob.bacon.senate@state.co.us, betty.boyd.senate@state.co.us, greg@gregbrophy.net, bill.cadman.senate@state.co.us, morgan.carroll.senate@state.co.us, joyce.foster.senate@state.co.us, angela.giron.senate@state.co.us, kevin.grantham.senate@state.co.us,, lucia.guzman.senate@state.co.us, ted.harvey.senate@state.co.us,, rollie.health.senate@state.co.us,, mary.hodge.senate@state.co.us, senatorhudak@gmail.com, cheru.jahn.senate@state.co.us, mike.johnson.senate@state.co.us,, keith@keithking.org, steve.king.senate@state.co.us,, senatorlambert@comcast.net, kevin@kevinlundberg.com, shawnmitch@aol.com, john.morse.senate@state.co.us

[Sharpienads]

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2013/0218/20130218__board~p1.jpg

[crashdown]

When is the senate vote?
Is it expected to be any better?

[Cylinder Head]

Honestly that's way closer than I thought it would get. We may have a shot in the senate.

[Jackrabbit]

I read this...

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22613895/colorado-house-debate-gun-bills-again-but-limited

Good God, did you see that mag ban poll on the sidebar?
Just a tad biased.

[wctriumph]

I sent this to both the Assembly and the Senate Friday, a little long winded but my brief contacts have not been responded to other than vague non-committal form letters.

Dear Honorable Senators:

My family and I urge you in the strongest term possible to vote against any and all of the recently passed assembly bills that limit magazine capacity, call for universal background (registration) checks for private firearm sales, weapons bans and any and all other restrictive firearms legislation that comes before you for a vote.


These and other proposed laws to further restrict law abiding citizens are not going to stop criminals from committing crimes and will in fact create new criminals of your constituency as many will not comply with these unconstitutional laws and infringements upon their state and American guaranteed constitutional rights.


These proposed laws will also force businesses to close or move out of Colorado and cost hundreds, if not thousands of Coloradans their jobs. We the people have let you know that we are not in favor of these new restrictions on our freedoms and so far we are seeing that national party politics are being placed above the rights and freedoms of the People of Colorado.


To sum up, if you vote for these proposed laws you will:


Infringe on our guaranteed constitutional inalienable rights under the Constitutions of The United States of America and the State of Colorado.
Cost honest and hard working people in Colorado their jobs and cause unwarranted financial hardship on them and their families.
Create further "Criminal Safe Zones" on our public school grounds by denying students to lawfully exercise their rights to self defense under current Colorado law.
Place the People of Colorado at the mercy of criminals and embolden the criminal element within Colorado by limiting the People's ability to defend themselves and their families from the criminal predators that these laws will not affect in the slightest.

No good will come from passing these laws and to do so will only prove that you consider yourselves our masters and not the public servants of The People that you have sworn an oath to serve and this will not be tolerated by the People of Colorado.


Respectfully yours,


Wayne, Susan & Sheelagh Murphy
Ft. Collins, CO 80524

[Ghosty]

And look at all those lazy assholes (and pussies) who were absent or abstained during this vote. Gotta remember those names too.

[clublights]

And look at all those lazy assholes (and pussies) who were absent or abstained during this vote. Gotta remember those names too.


All one of them ?

[crashdown]

All one of them ?

At least he didn't accuse them of voting alphabetically too.

[iquack08]

Here are the Dems who voted against the bill:

Edward Vigil, Fort Garland, HD62
Leroy Garcia, Pueblo, HD46
Steve Lebsock, Thornton, HD34

Dems hold a majority in the Senate 20-15, so only 3 of them need to defect. IMO, the Senate is the last best shot to kill this bill.

[hollohas]

Here's the email I got from Dianne Primavera today.


Thank you for your email.

Yup, that's it. No signature or anything else. How condescending. She voted for this bill and here is the email I will be sending in response to hers.

You did a terrible disservice to our state today by voting "Yes" on HB-1224. You also directly contradicted a promise you gave to your constituents when you campaigned for the office you now hold. I'll quote your website:

"Our focus this legislative session will be on jobs and the economy. The first bills introduced by the House Democrats will help Colorado businesses grow and will help Colorado workers gain the skills that they need to succeed in a 21st-century economy."

However, one of the first bills this session, HB-1224, is directly responsible for eliminating Colorado jobs and hundreds of millions in economy boosting revenue in the form of tax dollars and income for other Colorado businesses.

You DO NOT have this state's best interests in mind and I will keep my promise to do everything I can to have you removed from your seat by volunteering my time and money to your opponents when you are up for reelection. We will not forget.

[Mtn.man]

Bye Bye Magpul.

[Ghosty]

All one of them ?
The graphic posted above showed a bunch, not just one. I'll have to look again.

[hollohas]

The graphic posted above showed a bunch, not just one. I'll have to look again.

You're reading it wrong. "Absent" is not a column...

[Ghosty]

Yeah I was on my phone and only looked quickly. My bad, everyone relax. :)

[hollohas]

...everyone relax. :)

Never! [panic]

[ChunkyMonkey]

The graphic posted above showed a bunch, not just one. I'll have to look again.

Color blind? :p I actually went to John Buckner's open forum at the Cherry Creek Library.. he was avoiding the gun subject. Absent is better than a yes.

[BPTactical]

Absent is better than a yes.

Or too chicken to make a decision

[ChunkyMonkey]

I hope more Dems are as chicken as Buckner!

[dwalker460]

Dems hold a majority in the Senate 20-15, so only 3 of them need to defect. IMO, the Senate is the last best shot to kill this bill.


Lets hope they value their jobs more than their House counterparts.

[kwando]

Of coarse its my high school principle that is absent... $5 says magpul goes to Utah. #1 business state and gun friendly.

[jslo]

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2013/0218/20130218__board~p1.jpg
Pretty sure this snap shot was taken right before the final vote came in. I was there for the first three bills and am pretty sure all added up to the full 65 votes