View Full Version : Long Position on Silver and Gold?
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Great-Kazoo
09-16-2015, 15:43
Where are you buying them for so cheap?
I'd love to find them for $2 over.
Phone calls my good man, phone calls, networking, other established forum members who BUY IN BULK. I go in to a store tell them i'm paying in cash, SOMETIMES they're flexible on price.
However the last few places i called said their inventory is 2-3 weeks back ordered, due to the sudden high demand.
Roger Ronas
09-16-2015, 18:16
I'm buying 1oz silver rounds for 2.00 premium from Hallenbacks.
I'm buying 1oz silver rounds for 2.00 premium from Hallenbacks.
That's crazy.
Never spent more than .79/oz on private rounds, bought lots at .69 or less on specials. Bought 10oz bars 2 weeks ago .79/oz over spot. Even with the high premiums and delays, Provident is $1.29/oz over spot for rounds with check/ACH and free shipping over $99.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2015, 19:34
That's crazy.
Never spent more than .79/oz on private rounds, bought lots at .69 or less on specials. Bought 10oz bars 2 weeks ago .79/oz over spot. Even with the high premiums and delays, Provident is $1.29/oz over spot for rounds with check/ACH and free shipping over $99.
Some people feel if they don't pay more, there's something wrong with the product.
I eBay ampex usually eagles are only 1.50-2 over spot
An hour before we hear about the FOMC rate hike.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/sep/17/us-federal-reserve-interest-rate-decision-markets-janet-yellen-live
No rate change, business as usual, kicking the can because borrowing money will get you out of debt.
Gold and silver up again this morning. Oil is down, I wonder what fiat is going to do.
VIX ramping up now which may indicate some level of non-confidence possibly due to the failure of FedRes/FedGov to raise the rate. Before all this volatility the VIX was down around 13/14, when the markets were falling rapidly the VIX went up to 30, then it stabilized in the mid-20s, Ross Kaminsky on KHOW watches the VIX and that is why I'm bringing it up here, Ross is a professional trader.
Futures - http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=VX&p=h1 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=VX&p=h1)
Current - http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VIX:IND
I don't expect interest rates to go up while The Messiah is in office.
DOW is down 235 as I type.
HoneyBadger
09-18-2015, 08:06
What I need is for the US dollar to go down a lot (Don't have a lot of these anyway) and for PMs and energy futures to skyrocket (have lots of these)
Does anyone know who the culprit was for the shortage of ASEs in the near past?
What I need is for FedRes/FedGov to dissolve and the we'll go back to Constitutional principles. :)
Great-Kazoo
09-18-2015, 09:03
What I need is for FedRes/FedGov to dissolve and the we'll go back to Constitutional principles. :)
The Soap & Ballot box haven't worked.
The Soap & Ballot box haven't worked.
True.
sellersm
09-18-2015, 10:47
Does anyone know who the culprit was for the shortage of ASEs in the near past?
What I heard was a few big institutions (like JPMorgan, et al) that bought them for themselves. But who really knows? Someone is buying them up... And I presume that when they're done buying, we'll then see the price skyrocket.
Just for the record, I believe that between 2016-2018 we'll see a steady (overall) climb in prices/values.
What I heard was a few big institutions (like JPMorgan, et al) that bought them for themselves. But who really knows? Someone is buying them up... And I presume that when they're done buying, we'll then see the price skyrocket.
Just for the record, I believe that between 2016-2018 we'll see a steady (overall) climb in prices/values.
I saw that in a couple blogs as well, but I also saw news reports in 2012 that blamed JP Morgan and others as well.
BushMasterBoy
09-18-2015, 13:41
People buying monster boxes and keeping them caused shortages. Institutional banks buy large bars. Monster boxes are 500 oz 500 American Silver Eagles.
https://www.golddealer.com/product/1000-oz-comex-silver-bar/
What I need is for FedRes/FedGov to dissolve and the we'll go back to Constitutional principles. :)
There is a better chance that I'll be a NBA power forward before that happens.
Mike
There is a better chance that I'll be a NBA power forward before that happens.
Mike
So...when do you suit up?
via tapatalk
Batteriesnare
09-21-2015, 13:15
Can't believe it - made an investment in some silver, and the price went up after the fact........ Weird!
Batteriesnare
09-22-2015, 10:23
Can't believe it - made an investment in some silver, and the price went up after the fact........ Weird!
Well, there went that idea.
Well, there went that idea.
go buy more. In all seriousness, if you can find more physical PM's without suffering an intolerable premium over spot, go buy more.
Batteriesnare
09-22-2015, 13:55
Agreed, perfundsallow.
It was nice to think I'd made the right value move for once - my investing has always been indicative of a downswing to this point. Still would rather have it than paper though.
go buy more. In all seriousness, if you can find more physical PM's without suffering an intolerable premium over spot, go buy more.
Agreed, perfundsallow.
It was nice to think I'd made the right value move for once - my investing has always been indicative of a downswing to this point. Still would rather have it than paper though.
Welcome to the club, my friend!
I am absolutely in the same boat, as are most of us these days. The last several years have been nothing but down-trend, so buying at any point in the period has proven "overpriced" compared to today. It's all about hedging bets against inflation and the USD for me, and right now anyone who's able to find PM's to buy is really helping their average price per oz to drop back down to a respectable figure... unless you're just entering the game...
Aloha_Shooter
09-23-2015, 20:21
People buying monster boxes and keeping them caused shortages. Institutional banks buy large bars. Monster boxes are 500 oz 500 American Silver Eagles.
https://www.golddealer.com/product/1000-oz-comex-silver-bar/
Something has been bugging me about this statement since I first read it and I just figured out what it is. People buying cases of ammo and holding onto them created ammo shortages but ASEs are meant to be kept. What else do you expect people to do with them? Also, I've never worked in or for an institutional bank but I would expect said banks would purchase investments they can unload on the market quickly and easily. It's a lot easier to find buyers for 1000 ASEs than a 1000 ounce bar.
What I need is for the US dollar to go down a lot (Don't have a lot of these anyway) and for PMs and energy futures to skyrocket (have lots of these)
uuhhhhgggggg. I should've listened to you and just did a quick trade on what you said on PM. That would've been a quick free money. [facepalm]
hghclsswhitetrsh
10-20-2015, 18:42
Aydin has silver Eagles for $99/5 for the next few hours.
HoneyBadger
10-20-2015, 19:40
uuhhhhgggggg. I should've listened to you and just did a quick trade on what you said on PM. That would've been a quick free money. [facepalm]
Ha! Don't ever take investing advice from me! I am a rookie with much to learn. [Flower]
Better deal (check/ACH price) at Provident unless you want to use a CC I guess.
http://www.providentmetals.com/1-oz-american-silver-eagle-bu-mixed-date.html
http://www.providentmetals.com/2015-1-oz-american-silver-eagle-bullion-coin.html
Premiums on ASE are just stupid right now.
Provident has Prospector rounds for .89 over spot.
http://www.providentmetals.com/provident-metals-prospector-1-oz-silver-round.html
Mixed year ASE for 19.06, $3.19 over spot. Not a bad deal considering earlier supplies and premiums.
http://www.providentmetals.com/1-oz-american-silver-eagle-bu-mixed-date.html
I'm on the fence. Low cash reserves and uncertain employment outlook 90+ days out.
ASE $2.49 over spot (POS @$15.55 as I post)
http://www.providentmetals.com/2015-1-oz-american-silver-eagle-bullion-coin.html?utm_source=compare+silver&utm_medium=compare+silver&utm_campaign=compare+silver
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/152180-silver-rounds-for-sale-uncirculated-never-handled
Walking liberty spot plus .60
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/152180-silver-rounds-for-sale-uncirculated-never-handled
Walking liberty spot plus .60
(Min price $16.30) still a great deal for rounds if you're looking to buy generic now.
kidicarus13
11-06-2015, 18:46
If you want it, now is the time to buy it.
It's always time to buy.
I might just grab another roll of ASE. Dammit though I gotta work tomorrow morning in Brighton and would prefer to pick them up at the Tanner from the silver guys.
Interesting chart on China's Gross Domestic Product Growth per New Unit of Credit
http://blog.gavekalcapital.com/the-marginal-productivity-of-chinese-debt-has-gone-from-bad-to-much-worse-not-good-for-the-rabalancing-case/
Taking the Chinese GDP statistics at face value (an increasingly big assumption these days) we point out a rather ominous scenario which seems to be developing in the productivity dynamics of Chinese debt-financed growth. Basically the amount of growth that each new unit of credit produces is plunging to levels not seen since 2009-2010 when the Chinese unleashed the largest GDP adjusted stimulus program in the world. As it stands now, each new unit of debt is buying less than .5 units of marginal growth, and that, again, is taking for granted the accuracy of the GDP stats (chart 1). In reality the ratio is probably much lower than the current reading of .47.
Is this sustainable? Of course not. As we have been saying for several years now, Chinese growth is going much lower as the economy rebalances from being an investment led model to a consumption led model. One of the signs we’re looking for to indicate that the transition is taking place is actually a slowing of new loan growth and improvement in the indicator in chart 1. We’ve got exactly the opposite so far, which is an indication of the Chinese pushing on the debt string even more to fuel growth rather than accepting slower growth still, but a rebalanced economy. This, in a perverse way, probably increases the risk of the dreaded hard landing as the chances of a credit “event” rise even further.
FedGov/FedRes is doing the same thing here. Do you think we'll experience a different result?
I just noticed that they got the DOW almost back to 18K, busy, busy, busy pumping their fiat paper.
HoneyBadger
11-09-2015, 14:45
I just noticed that they got the DOW almost back to 18K, busy, busy, busy pumping their fiat paper.
Good day for VIX: https://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXCBOE%3AVIX&sq=VIX&sp=4&ei=l1kmVsGsBoKziwLUrbmgDQ
Good day for VIX: https://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXCBOE%3AVIX&sq=VIX&sp=4&ei=l1kmVsGsBoKziwLUrbmgDQ
Indeed, [Beer]
VIX is up this morning after DOW fiat took a 250 point hit yesterday.
http://vixcentral.com/
Did anyone see the story about the painting that sold for $170M, when the economy is going south the wealthy look for alternative containers for their wealth, art is one of those containers, or maybe the buyer just wanted a nice piece.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20151110/midtown/this-painting-just-sold-for-170-million-at-christies-auction
http://qz.com/355074/as-goes-andy-warhol-so-goes-the-art-market/
Although he died in 1987, Andy Warhol is as trendy as ever. As a matter of fact, the Pop Art pioneer set a new record for auctions by a single artist, with his work generating $569 million in sales last year, up from $367 million the year before.
Why companies buy back their own stock:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042015/why-would-company-buyback-its-own-shares.asp
Stock buybacks (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/041702.asp) refer to the repurchasing of shares of stock by the company that issued them. Essentially, a buyback occurs is when the issuing company pays shareholders the market value per share and re-absorbs that portion of its ownership that was previously distributed among public and private investors.[QUOTE]
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/041702.asp
[QUOTE]2. Open Market -The second alternative a company has is to buy shares on the open market, just like an individual investor would, at the market price. It is important to note, however, that when a company announces a buyback it is usually perceived by the market as a positive thing, which often causes the share price to shoot up.
This points to what I interpret as an overvaluation of the stock markets.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/beware-the-stock-buyback-craze-1434727038
Sometimes people do silly things with money, particularly if everyone else is doing it. There simply is no other way to explain the box-office success of “Avengers: Age of Ultron.” Companies aren’t any different. Currently, they are spending vast amounts of perfectly good capital to buy back their own shares. And now you can buy mutual funds that invest in the biggest players in the buyback craze.
Sheesh, silver below 14.20 this morning and Provident has temp suspended their ACH payment method (changing providers).
HoneyBadger
11-13-2015, 09:18
I was really thinking that VIX would hang out under $13 until mid-December, but I guess not. Bummer, because I was hoping to sell XIV and get into VIX in about 3 weeks. Hopefully this is just a little bubble that will pop.
Sheesh, silver below 14.20 this morning and Provident has temp suspended their ACH payment method (changing providers).
use eBay. Pay with a card and get points, get free shipping, and prices are equal to cash/check prices with anywhere else.
i use APMEX and MCM. Both have been great.
use eBay. Pay with a card and get points, get free shipping, and prices are equal to cash/check prices with anywhere else.
i use APMEX and MCM. Both have been great.
I have bought from MCM when they had deals on ebay but I also get free shipping with Provident and I'm not seeing ASE rolls cheaper anywhere else right now. I'm out of town so I can't mail a check and the ACH option was my preference.
Guess it depends on how much you are looking to buy. Bullion.exchanges and usgoldbureau have them for $352/20 with free ship.
$1748/100 free ship at Liberty coin on eBay right now. I've noticed these companies are pretty slow following drops in price but very fast following increase in price regarding what they charge! If things stay low I'd expect even better prices come Sunday/Monday
Speaking of drops, apmex just put out a lower spot price. $340.80/20 ASE free ship on ebay
Good intel there. Thanks.
crashdown
11-13-2015, 14:58
I need a bit of education....
I'm looking at the eBay auctions, and the ASE coins are selling fast as hell.
I would imagine pretty soon supplies will run low, and the price will start to go back up.
Price goes up and everyone tries to sell at higher price than they bought.
Market becomes flooded instantly, so price goes back down.
Is that how this works?
Seems about right unless the silver mining can accelerate production. But yeah, that seems to be what has been happening lately, hence the high spot prices.
Bought small blocks of UWTI (Oil etf/etn 3x lev long) right before the close yesterday when Oil was at around 41ish.
Now, oil is 40 and change. If it dips below 40, I am going to load up on UWTI.
Gold is under $1100, to 1070. Fiat paper has more value than a precious metal, kinda like the platitudes of the government carrying more weight than the deeds of the government.
HoneyBadger
11-17-2015, 20:24
Bought small blocks of UWTI (Oil etf/etn 3x lev long) right before the close yesterday when Oil was at around 41ish.
Now, oil is 40 and change. If it dips below 40, I am going to load up on UWTI.
BOIL might be worth a look too.
Rooskibar03
11-17-2015, 22:04
Gold is under $1100, to 1070. Fiat paper has more value than a precious metal, kinda like the platitudes of the government carrying more weight than the deeds of the government.
[off-yourself][off-yourself]
Speaking of drops, apmex just put out a lower spot price. $340.80/20 ASE free ship on ebay
Got mine yesterday, even came in a nice holiday box.
sellersm
11-24-2015, 13:16
The legendary Richard Russell has passed away: http://kingworldnews.com/legendary-richard-russell-has-died/
It is with great sadness that we report the passing of Richard Lion Russell on Saturday, November 21. Richard had gone to the hospital a week earlier with abdominal pain. He was diagnosed with blood clots in the leg and lungs and other untreatable ailments, but was able to return home under hospice care. He spent his last days surrounded by family and visited by close friends.
Richard wrote for Dow Theory Letters almost every day of his adult life, mailing the letter out faithfully every ten days to three weeks beginning in 1958. In 1991 Dow Theory Letters began publishing online, which allowed Richard to write daily. This he did until about a week before his passing. Dow Theory Letters was the longest investment letter in the industry continuously written by the same person.
BOIL might be worth a look too.
Thanks for schooling me on NatGas. Only thing I know about NatGas, is it has higher demand on winter, and climate sensitive. Also lower price on oil, lower demand on NatGas. Besides that, I have no idea. lol
I loaded up on uwti again. I think oil will have another fluctuation before summer blends of gasoline starts.
So, UWTI-> DWTI -> Long on oil with USO and few leveraged LONG.
Currently looking at Sprint and Twitter closely for possible share or CALL purchase.
Oil is falling, WTI under $37, and Brent just a little over $40.
HoneyBadger
12-08-2015, 09:12
Looks like oil is going to keep falling. Short of a global war, I don't think we'll ever see $100/barrel oil again. Even $50/barrel seems somewhat unlikely at this point. Any long oil or gas futures are a pretty long shot at this point.
Yup, OPEC had a meeting recently and they said that their production levels would not be reduced.
Gold and silver are under $1100 and $15 respectively. Fiat paper is riding the roller-coaster, major currencies are kinda flat.
BushMasterBoy
12-08-2015, 09:39
US deployments to Mid East paid for low priced oil. I need a vacation.
Strippers Suffering From Low Oil Prices (not what you might think)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-09/strippers-suffering-low-oil-prices
Aloha_Shooter
12-09-2015, 14:35
Low priced oil right now is a reaction to lowered demand and investments in alternative energy sources. OPEC has acknowledged in the past that they feared breakthroughs that would undermine their energy market and that they would lower prices to make investments in shale oil and alternative energy sources uneconomic. Add a burgeoning black market in Libyan oil and Russia's increase in production to pay for Putin's global adventurism and you have all the explanation you need without the usual poppycock about "US deployments".
US deployments to the Mid East could only be credited with lowering the price of oil if they had stabilized the situation in the Mid East as occurred after Desert Storm. That has not been the case after OIF/OEF.
I'm seeing silver at $13.90 this morning.
Good thing I'm broke and Provident still hasn't fixed their ACH payment method.
sellersm
12-15-2015, 16:41
Baltic Dry Index at all-time low: http://gcaptain.com/baltic-dry-index-plummets-to-new-all-time-low-484-points/#.VnCTiDadL8t
BDI is a good thing to watch.
FOMC today; sposed to announce their interest rate at noon MST but they're waiting until the markets are closed. Hmmmmmmmmmm playing with the system, I hope it bites them in the ass.
sellersm
12-15-2015, 17:58
I thought the Fed announcement was scheduled for the 16th, which is tomorrow?
I thought the Fed announcement was scheduled for the 16th, which is tomorrow?
You're right, I thought it was today.
Great-Kazoo
12-15-2015, 18:53
I thought the Fed announcement was scheduled for the 16th, which is tomorrow?
Probably move it to friday afternoon. The graveyard for important news items. It's HRC's favorite time to proclaim her like or dislike of something inconsequential , Like the Constitution.
sellersm
12-15-2015, 18:55
Probably move it to friday afternoon. The graveyard for important news items. It's HRC's favorite time to proclaim her like or dislike of something inconsequential , Like the Constitution.
Like Bill? [Coffee]
FOMC raised the rate .25%.
sellersm
12-16-2015, 13:17
FOMC raised the rate .25%.
Yep, beginning of a "gradual increase". Buckle your seatbelts...
Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk
FedGov will have to borrow more money to service the debt.
My online savings account just dropped my interest rate 0.10%. You'd think it would have gone up. I'm eagerly awaiting higher interest rates for savings.
My online savings account just dropped my interest rate 0.10%. You'd think it would have gone up. I'm eagerly awaiting higher interest rates for savings.
Funny how that seems to work, give it a week or early next year and see if it adjusts upward.
I'm hoping so. It was listed as 1.2% when I checked the Highest Interest Rates 2015 list, but when I went to sign up it had dropped to 1.1% a month or two before I signed up. Now it's down to a flat 1%. Hoping to see a nice increase as these rates go up.
Baltic Dry Index at all-time low: http://gcaptain.com/baltic-dry-index-plummets-to-new-all-time-low-484-points/#.VnCTiDadL8t
http://wolfstreet.com/2015/12/15/freight-shipments-plummet-as-inventory-glut-bites/
The transportation sector just keeps getting worse. Even after today’s uptick, the Dow Jones Transportation Average is back where it was in April 2014, and down 18% from its peak a year ago. Within this transportation sector is freight, a gauge of the goods-based economy, which is having a rough time.
In November, the number of freight shipments in North America plunged 5.1% from a year ago, according to the Cass Freight Index (http://www.cassinfo.com/Transportation-Expense-Management/Supply-Chain-Analysis/Transportation-Indexes/Cass-Freight-Index.aspx). It hit the worst level for any November since 2011.
BushMasterBoy
12-16-2015, 18:09
Bankers are getting a pay bonus! Those on disability and the elderly are not! Merry Christmas from "O" interest!
Bah humbug from your Feral Goobermint...
hurley842002
12-16-2015, 19:20
Bankers are getting a pay bonus!
LOL tell that to my wife, not sure if she'd slap you or piss herself laughing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BushMasterBoy
12-16-2015, 22:31
The only people to benefit from this rate rise are the Federal Reserve Bank and the central government. The retail banks do not benefit. You do not benefit. It is a hidden tax. You are sending more of your hard earned money to Washington. I feel like I am at a party of the Third Reich around April 25, 1945. What are they buying with your money? More of these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_Rock_Mountain_Complex
I don't see how this interest rate hike affects me.
It will if you decide to buy a home....
HoneyBadger
12-16-2015, 23:36
It will if you decide to buy a home....
Simple: Don't buy things you can't afford.
Problem solved.
It will if you decide to buy a home....
Of course I realize that. I just facetiously made that comment instead of explaining that while a rate hike might not be ideal for a lot of people, it more or less won't affect many others; so at least it's not the end of the world.
sellersm
12-17-2015, 15:21
Good time to stock up more, PM prices are dropping (along with the market)!
Zero Hedge provides some humor in response to the knee-jerk humans trying to control global financial markets.
Time For A Rate Cut? Dollar Surge Sparks Stocks, Credit, Crude Purgehttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-17/time-rate-cut-dollar-surge-sparks-stocks-credit-crude-purge
Aaaaaaand, it's gone.
Interesting article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-24/exclusive-gold-gone-its-all-gone-one-gold-scandal-goes-very-top
Let's summarize once again: a gold-smuggling scandal that took place under the nose of the US and the international community for years, one which allowed Iran to skirt international sanctions using gold as a barter tool to keep its economy going and involved China and Russia among many other nations, and one which saw the participation of not only the economic and prime ministers of Turkey (and current president) but also countless corrupt Turkish politicians and the richest person in Iran, but also the second most powerful person in Dubai, the largest holding company in the Arab Emirates and the largest gold holding company in the Gulf state.
A scandal which resulted in untold riches for everyone involved, and has also resulted in the Dubai management team disappearing with what may well be billions in stolen funds.
And, naturally, there is a token "anonymous" Swiss bank to boot, which is likely the resting place of said stolen billions.
All of this it is real, it happened, and is not the screenplay of the next James Bond movie.
And - the punchline - it all revolves around one of the simplest products known to man: gold.
BushMasterBoy
12-25-2015, 08:38
Merry Kissmyass, IN GOLD WE TRUST!
screagle2
12-27-2015, 17:23
Really.....?.
Did anyone take up APMEX on their 4 hour sale? $2.79 over spot on tubes of 2015 Silver Eagles
kidicarus13
12-30-2015, 15:47
Now they're $3.49 over spot
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Time to lower the interest rate......oooops.
Stocks around the world fell on the last day of the year, as the Dow industrials headed for their first annual drop since 2008.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/global-stocks-set-to-close-year-with-a-whimper-1451552749
Post up any good deals you find. Thx
Not sure if it was a good deal or not. $334 shipped for a 20 round tube of ASEs. Will be happy to post up if I see something new come up.
I took a peek at the VIX this morning, I was wondering if the DOW would take a digger but I wasn't thinking a 400 point digger.
Oil, gold and silver are up.
Chaffee2
01-07-2016, 12:55
I have a bit of scrap silver and gold. What is the best way to sell it without taking a beating? Pawn shops will only pay pennies on the dollar and the local jewelry shop is not much better. Anyway to get close to spot?
Thanks
kidicarus13
01-07-2016, 13:05
I have a bit of scrap silver and gold. What is the best way to sell it without taking a beating? Pawn shops will only pay pennies on the dollar and the local jewelry shop is not much better. Anyway to get close to spot?
Thanks
Local sales or eBay. Prospective buyers will want to be assured/verify if it is gold/silver prior to purchase. That is why gold/silver coins (including pre-'64), rounds, and bars are easier to sell. Easier to verify authenticity.
BushMasterBoy
01-07-2016, 14:42
I have a bit of scrap silver and gold. What is the best way to sell it without taking a beating? Pawn shops will only pay pennies on the dollar and the local jewelry shop is not much better. Anyway to get close to spot?
Thanks
Offer it on the trading post here on the forum. Lotta gold around where you live, for the taking!
Offer it on the trading post here on the forum. Lotta gold around where you live, for the taking!
^This.... there's many folks here who would buy it if the price and location is right.
Oil is on the $31 handle, day ended pretty flat day otherwise.
APMEX has another 4 hour sale going on. $333 shipped for 20 2015 ASEs
kidicarus13
01-12-2016, 11:34
APMEX has another 4 hour sale going on. $333 shipped for 20 2015 ASEs
Link?
BushMasterBoy
01-12-2016, 11:37
http://www.apmex.com/
kidicarus13
01-12-2016, 11:42
http://www.apmex.com/
http://www.apmex.com/product/84914/2015-1-oz-silver-american-eagles-20-coin-mintdirect-tube
Looks like more than $333 to me. A direct link would be more helpful.
http://www.apmex.com/product/92364/2015-1-oz-silver-american-eagle-tube-of-20 for the sale price
kidicarus13
01-12-2016, 11:48
http://www.apmex.com/product/92364/2015-1-oz-silver-american-eagle-tube-of-20 for the sale price
Thank you
WOW, oil is on the $29 handle. http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
I'm beginning to wonder if oil is a better investment at this point.....
Oh man, I should not have looked at my 401k. Following the DOW pretty closely.
This correction is hurting. I hope it bounces back as quickly as the last little one. Here's to hope in one hand and shit in the other.
I should have stuffed it all in cash in July.
Great-Kazoo
01-21-2016, 22:10
Oh man, I should not have looked at my 401k. Following the DOW pretty closely.
This correction is hurting. I hope it bounces back as quickly as the last little one. Here's to hope in one hand and shit in the other.
I should have stuffed it all in cash in July.
You didn't??
A kid in the neighborhood is on the down side. ALL his "investments" have tanked. That's the good thing about never playing the market. I have nothing to lose.
Swapped my 401k to bonds right after new year, lost a little, but not as much as if I'd kept as much in stocks as I had. Been making some regular silver purchases the last several months, but I'm worried the metals market hasn't hit bottom yet. Though at least they're tangible assets.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2016, 22:23
Oh man, I should not have looked at my 401k. Following the DOW pretty closely.
This correction is hurting. I hope it bounces back as quickly as the last little one. Here's to hope in one hand and shit in the other.
I should have stuffed it all in cash in July.
Yeah, just about everyone is feeling it right now. I actually got lucky as f*** because I sold out of the Mutual Fund that my IRA was primarily invested in on Dec 10th while I dug around for something with better performance. Probably saved myself about 8-10k, just in dumb luck. [Dunno] Now I'm the evil bastard who is hoping that the S&P drops to 800 so I can jump back in then :D
No cash option in my 401k.. went to bonds about 2 months ago
Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
Yeah, just about everyone is feeling it right now. I actually got lucky as f*** because I sold out of the Mutual Fund that my IRA was primarily invested in on Dec 10th while I dug around for something with better performance. Probably saved myself about 8-10k, just in dumb luck. [Dunno] Now I'm the evil bastard who is hoping that the S&P drops to 800 so I can jump back in then :D
I've already "lost" $32K in value from late Nov as of today. $8K More than the max amount allowed that I was able to stuff into it last year. If I don't, Uncle Sam just takes it all in fed taxes. [facepalm]
I'm still in it for quite a few more years, hell I can't even withdraw without penalty for another 4.5, and the market has historically recovered well. Sticking in it for the long haul but certainly as I get closer I need to make it a safer nestegg and pull back from the riskier stuff.
The company match goes into employee owned stock that gets valued bi-annual so it's less volatile when the market swings and has in years past done very well, or at least retained value. As long as the company stays strong, and I've got pretty good faith in that piece as well which is around 25% of my total investments. I just hope I don't end up with an "Enron" t-shirt. I do wish I was otherwise diversified in addition to the modest PM investments but unfortunately that's all there is. Seems every time I scratch enough together to buy in, something comes up. I'm also very unlucky when it comes to money so there's that.
Great-Kazoo
01-21-2016, 23:28
I just hope I don't end up with an "Enron" t-shirt.
Or one from Qwest...........................
Isn't now the time to be buying in? I guess it could be different for working within a 401k, but it seems like the market is on sale right now.
I figured in just buying shares at my age and hope the company makes it for the long haul! Although I do have my eye on a good short term right now but not sure if I can pull the trigger on it.
HoneyBadger
01-22-2016, 00:46
Isn't now the time to be buying in? I guess it could be different for working within a 401k, but it seems like the market is on sale right now.
Correct. I'm selfishly hoping it drops more before recovering.
Every time I buy PM it drops the next day. I'll let you know next time I buy more.
BushMasterBoy
01-30-2016, 12:53
Japans banks now have negative interest rates.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-japan-negative-interest-20160129-htmlstory.html
VIX up to 28 handle; WTI on the 26 handle; Gold has a big push to $1240, silver well over $15
http://vixcentral.com/
(http://www.bloomberg.com/energy)http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/metals
India increases taxes on gold sales.
News from India via Liberty's Torch - http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/
Finance Minister Arun Jaitley presented the government’s gold plan as part of the annual federal budget. Saying that gold import taxes will remain unchanged this year – dashing hopes for a cut. In fact, Jaitley actually announced an increase in taxes on gold sales. Saying that the government will add a sales tax of 1 percent to all gold jewelry sold in India.
Such a sales tax had been scrapped by the government four years ago. But is now being revived by officials with the stated aim of reducing gold consumption.
And that wasn’t the end of increased taxation on bullion. With Minister Jaitley also saying he will raise taxes on imports of dore gold bars – to 8.75 percent, from a former 8 percent.
http://www.businessinsider.com/india-just-stunned-the-gold-market-2016-3
10 2016 ASE for $170 on a (points!) credit card purchase here.
Here's a great deal on 2016 ASE's.......govmint (http://www.govmint.com/us-coins/silver-coins/silver-eagle/2016-1-dollar-1-oz-silver-eagle-bu.html)has them for a fixed price of $16.95 each (limit of 10)
Great-Kazoo
03-05-2016, 17:30
10 2016 ASE for $170 on a (points!) credit card purchase here.
Here's a great deal on 2016 ASE's.......govmint (http://www.govmint.com/us-coins/silver-coins/silver-eagle/2016-1-dollar-1-oz-silver-eagle-bu.html)has them for a fixed price of $16.95 each (limit of 10)
Good deal. Unfortunately i scorched my card for my 60th , said fuk it.
HoneyBadger
03-05-2016, 18:00
Was your birthday Feb 29th?
Good deal. Unfortunately i scorched my card for my 60th , said fuk it.
RPR?
Great-Kazoo
03-05-2016, 18:42
RPR?
Not even. Mostly parts, parts and more parts. When HRC gets the nod, I see AR's STARTING @ $1500. Going to the $3K mark right before the election, easy.
AND put some ammo on hold for this unit.
https://www.ar-15.co/attachment.php?attachmentid=64286&d=1456800173
Effin' cool - Guns and ammo are PMs too.
More from India and their tax on gold.
We know from long and broad experience that governments hate gold. It functions as a barometer of governmental currency depreciation, which is useful all by itself. It has an excellent record as a store of value, which is why gold demand rises along with the inflation rate. However, among clever people it also serves as a medium of exchange: i.e., a true money.
Why is there “no buying?” In part because of the reporting requirement that accompanies the new tax, but in at least equal part because there’s no selling. Those who have gold, seeing that the influx is to suffer, are holding on to what they have. In response, India’s many jewelers are straining to reach a compromise with the government, so that trading in gold will be reinvigorated:
http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/03/quickies-governments-and-gold-part-2.html
http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/03/quickies-governments-and-gold.html (http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/03/quickies-governments-and-gold.html)
http://www.businessinsider.com/indias-gold-sales-tax-having-huge-impact-2016-3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=45&v=6gmp2IqReFQ
Too bad he doesn't say when he's coming to town right?
I can understand why people don't want to buy stuff off the street though. Everyone peddling stuff on the street says what they have is real and a great deal.
Chaffee2
03-16-2016, 18:13
Too bad he doesn't say when he's coming to town right?
I can understand why people don't want to buy stuff off the street though. Everyone peddling stuff on the street says what they have is real and a great deal.
True, but I would say but it needs to be checked out by the coin shop. The microphone is a give away that something is up and he just didn't steal it. People are just stupid. I've always wondered how many takers he's had. Surely not everyone is an idiot.
Great-Kazoo
03-16-2016, 18:24
Surely not everyone is an idiot.
[LOL]
Oh I agree. You see a microphone and a camera, then investigate further.
15 Jan 2016 - Oil was on the $29 handle. 16 March 2016 Oil is on the rise, Brent is on the $40 handle and WTI is about to hit the $39 handle. Anticipation of summer driving season?
Gold was up $30 to $1262 and silver up 30 cents to $15.60.
Aunt Janet said FedRes wouldn't raise interest rates this time but might raise them later this year. DOW was essentially flat on this news.
US Debt Clock says we're at $19.1 Trillion, isn't that a nice number for your great-grandchildren to pay or default on. Don't worry, they'll default on themselves since the net tax payers hold the majority of the debt (assuming your grandchildren are producers and not parasites), the net tax receivers (bernie's people among others including foreign aid) are the recipients of all that debt.
They can't print precious metal.
They can't print precious metal.
The new gold and silver plated 3D printers can
Anticipation of summer driving season?
Changing over from winter blend to summer blend, always makes the price rise, along with the "summer driving" excuse.
Changing over from winter blend to summer blend, always makes the price rise, along with the "summer driving" excuse.
Well, the conversion costs money and business passes all costs including taxes on to the consumer. So, I guess voting for environmentalists who changed the regulations on gasoline costs us money.
Just remember, the oil companies get about 4 cents per gallon in profit, the feds get 18 cents and Colorado gets 22 cents so the government makes 10 times as much on a gallon of gas as the company that recovers, processes, and delivers that gallon. Who is ripping us off, the oil company or the goddamn government?
Great-Kazoo
03-17-2016, 08:12
Well, the conversion costs money and business passes all costs including taxes on to the consumer. So, I guess voting for environmentalists who changed the regulations on gasoline costs us money.
Just remember, the oil companies get about 4 cents per gallon in profit, the feds get 18 cents and Colorado gets 22 cents so the government makes 10 times as much on a gallon of gas as the company that recovers, processes, and delivers that gallon. Who is ripping us off, the oil company or the goddamn government?
UuMMMmmmmmmm ?
Gov reaches into my pocket and steals money ...perfectly legal
...sorry i know it contributes nothing to the conversation. ... just had to vent...
I always thought winter gas was more expensive?!
I always thought winter gas was more expensive?!
Winter diesel usually is. I believe regular gas goes down. They flip flop in summer (Usually).
I'll just add this to my list of things to stop worrying about since I can't do anything about it anyway.
I do wish they'd tax contrails (air fracking!) though.
HoneyBadger
03-17-2016, 13:21
I'll just add this to my list of things to stop worrying about since I can't do anything about it anyway.
I do wish they'd tax contrails (air fracking!) though.
But Chemtrails is a government program, so they obviously couldn't tax themselves... [Sarcasm2]
We'll just have to see what Erin Brocovich has to say about that. I also heard that the EPA was trying to get the air space over Greeley classified as a Super Fund site...
HoneyBadger
03-17-2016, 15:55
Speaking of silver and gold... wtf? Does anyone actually believe silver and gold will get back up to where they were just 2-3 years ago?
Great-Kazoo
03-17-2016, 17:18
Speaking of silver and gold... wtf? Does anyone actually believe silver and gold will get back up to where they were just 2-3 years ago?
november will be a decent indicator.
HoneyBadger
03-17-2016, 21:46
november will be a decent indicator.
Speaking of precious metals... I got a rough count on my brass: 2500 5.56 (about 2/3 of it is already tumbled) and about 4000 unprocessed 9mm.
I'll just add this to my list of things to stop worrying about since I can't do anything about it anyway.
I do wish they'd tax contrails (air fracking!) though.
That tax will be passed on to the passengers. And if the gov gets enough tax money back, we may very well start up gauging the concentration and frequency
Will we get rebates when studies show that we weren't as docile as we were supposed to be?
Will we get rebates when studies show that we weren't as docile as we were supposed to be?
Nope, just more concentrated flights over your location!
BladesNBarrels
03-19-2016, 09:20
But Chemtrails is a government program, so they obviously couldn't tax themselves... [Sarcasm2]
Just returned from Florida. I bought an annual State Parks Pass.
Florida added state tax to the fee for the Pass.
Then I was at a State Park in the Keys.
They assessed Monroe County tax on the total cost of the annual Pass.
I told the Ranger that I thought the Government could not tax their own fees.
I was wrong.
[Dunno]
It's like paying taxes on a speeding ticket, which is already a fee!
It's like paying taxes on a speeding ticket, which is already a fee!
Or paying income tax on Social Security. That one really rubs me...
BlasterBob
03-19-2016, 11:16
Or paying income tax on Social Security. That one really rubs me...
This does happen and makes us really PO'd especially being reminded of this at income tax time.
Or paying income tax on Social Security. That one really rubs me...
That was taken pre-tax though so it's not the same.
That was taken pre-tax though so it's not the same.
Your forced 6.2% (or whatever it is) is taken from gross.
You are then taxed on the 6.2%.
If you consider SS to be a tax, it's a tax on tax.
It's the same as a 401k. I don't think things that aren't considered commerce transactions should be taxed.
It's the same as a 401k. I don't think things that aren't considered commerce transactions should be taxed.
I agree. But then why are SS contributions taxed?
And it's not really the same...
401K contributions go into a self-directed account with your name on it.
Social Security contributions are transfer payments.
Just because SS is taken out pre-tax. The idea is most likely that you benefit because you are in a higher tax bracket during your working life than you will be when you're retired and your only income is SS. That's not quite the case now compared to when SS was created, but it still holds true.
Just because SS is taken out pre-tax. The idea is most likely that you benefit because you are in a higher tax bracket during your working life than you will be when you're retired and your only income is SS. That's not quite the case now compared to when SS was created, but it still holds true.
Based on the idea you will get what you have paid in+.
And that $24K cap (or whatever it is now) doesn't go as far as it used to.
They should just admit it's a tax, stop taxing on top of it, and tax distributions. This would be closer to a 401K. You are not taxed on 401K contributions but you are likely to be taxed on distributions above the combined cap.
HoneyBadger
03-19-2016, 13:47
Based on the idea you will get what you have paid in+.
And that $24K cap (or whatever it is now) doesn't go as far as it used to.
They should just admit it's a tax, stop taxing on top of it, and tax distributions. This would be closer to a 401K. You are not taxed on 401K contributions but you are likely to be taxed on distributions above the combined cap.
Or we could just scrap the whole program and allow people to invest as they see fit instead of relying on the nanny state to care for them in their retirement. The whole program is just one gigantic step into a welfare state.... Because who would bite the hand that feeds them, right?
My SS payments are called self employment tax and it's 15%. So it will clearly be a tax on a tax when they start paying me SS.
My SS payments are called self employment tax and it's 15%. So it will clearly be a tax on a tax when they start paying me SS.
Taking a chance and busting your ass to make a living for yourself and then getting double/triple taxed sure is s kick in the nards, ain't it?
kidicarus13
03-19-2016, 22:02
Taking a chance and busting your ass to make a living for yourself and then getting double/triple taxed sure is s kick in the nards, ain't it?
Who else is going to support Bernie's peeps?
Based on the idea you will get what you have paid in+.
And that $24K cap (or whatever it is now) doesn't go as far as it used to.
They should just admit it's a tax, stop taxing on top of it, and tax distributions. This would be closer to a 401K. You are not taxed on 401K contributions but you are likely to be taxed on distributions above the combined cap.
More Reason to open a Roth. I can't see taxes being at a lower rate when I get ready to retire.
More Reason to open a Roth. I can't see taxes being at a lower rate when I get ready to retire.
They will be when you're in the "unemployed" tax bracket.
True of course I'm going to be in that bracket probably come July.
jhood001
03-20-2016, 02:28
Or we could just scrap the whole program and allow people to invest as they see fit instead of relying on the nanny state to care for them in their retirement. The whole program is just one gigantic step into a welfare state.... Because who would bite the hand that feeds them, right?
Right. Because the people out there that will actually need Social Security (as a result of their poorly planned and fiscally negligent lives) actually have the financial prowess to invest wisely during their more than likely low wage earning years.
Some people just don't get it.
Social Security isn't so much a welfare program as it is a program to protect the current system that we have. That might sound alike a cop-out, and it would be if it was coming from the liberal left... which isn't me.
Social Security is in place to keep the lower class complacent in their retirement years. It is there to keep people who didn't do any life planning continually living in at least a somewhat livable state in their retirement years. Seniors in a 'comfortable state' won't call on their progeny (who are more than likely similar in their life outlook and financial planning) to DO something for them. And when I say 'do something', it could be voting for a socialist or physically robbing their immediate neighbor. Social Security is a penance that keeps some of our weakest from being raised as champions for a change in how wealth is distributed in this country.
The last thing any of us want is for Social Security to go away tomorrow. You might believe that it is a wellfare program, and it very well might be. But the country you live in would become the country you definitely do not want to live in if it was abolished tomorrow.
I don't make a fortune, but I could give 2 flying shits about the amount I pay into social security. I invest far more on my own. Social Security will be gravy for me. If you're in a position that the amount Social Security deducts from your wages is making or breaking you, you just might be doing something wrong. And you will probably need Social Security when your retirement age comes. And despite how much any of us may hate it now, there isn't one among us who won't cash that check.
I agree that it sounds better on paper to allow people to do what they want with their own wages. And if everyone was like me or you, I would be on board for it. But there is a vast amount of our country's population that will spend every penny they earn during their 'working' years and demand to be taken care of in their later years when they can no longer work and they have absolutely nothing.
I am alright with Social Security. The amount of financial harm it does to me is negligible when compared to the harm the impoverished masses could do to me physically or in the ballot box.
There are far greater 'evils' to focus the conservative eye on than Social Security.
Aloha_Shooter
03-20-2016, 09:22
More Reason to open a Roth. I can't see taxes being at a lower rate when I get ready to retire.
I don't do a Roth because I don't trust the government to NOT tax them later., especially as Obama's $40T overspend comes due and the Dems want to keep giving stuff to the FSA. I'll take my tax deductions NOW thank you very much. Mark my words ... the Dems are going to propose taxing Roths in the next 5-10 years because it's unfair for you to collect "all that money" without taxes (nevermind the fact you already paid tax on it, so did the corporations that pay out dividends to their shareholders) when there are hungry children and transgenders needing operations and Georgetown Law School students who have to buy their own prophylactics.
HoneyBadger
03-20-2016, 09:42
That's more than a liberal left cop-out, that is the definition of socialism: Individuals can't handle freedom, so the state must take care of them by mandating their investments, healthcare, etc., even if it is against their will. Yes, it provides some practical pleasantries, (just like having a college-educated society, right?) but the fact that it isn't voluntary makes it nothing short of tyranny.
Fun fact: Members of the Old Order Amish church do not pay into, nor collect, Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. Apparently Section 310 of the medicare code states that an individual may apply for exemption from social security if he/she is a part of a religious body that conscientiously objects and makes "reasonable provisions" to care for their own elderly. Best argument I've ever seen for becoming Amish. ;)
I don't do a Roth because I don't trust the government to NOT tax them later., especially as Obama's $40T overspend comes due and the Dems want to keep giving stuff to the FSA. I'll take my tax deductions NOW thank you very much. Mark my words ... the Dems are going to propose taxing Roths in the next 5-10 years because it's unfair for you to collect "all that money" without taxes (nevermind the fact you already paid tax on it, so did the corporations that pay out dividends to their shareholders) when there are hungry children and transgenders needing operations and Georgetown Law School students who have to buy their own prophylactics.
[LOL]
I'm even more pessimistic.
Not the right thread for this but...
https://ir.citi.com/A9PruMxsx32cucD9nPyz6VOD1aXLcqQ1bFnuNFZcDqWVvkop5N YU6Q%3D%3D (PDF)
$78T in pension shortfalls (20 OECD countries)
$26T in estimated private retirement accounts (US only)
There are few other options (see page 37 for Citi's non-solutions) that don't involve taking some/all of those private accounts/funds.
As the consumers continue to outnumber the producers, the political consequences of taking retirement money to create an equal outcome will be more positive.
jhood001
03-20-2016, 16:52
That's more than a liberal left cop-out, that is the definition of socialism: Individuals can't handle freedom, so the state must take care of them by mandating their investments, healthcare, etc., even if it is against their will. Yes, it provides some practical pleasantries, (just like having a college-educated society, right?) but the fact that it isn't voluntary makes it nothing short of tyranny.
Oh, I agree with you completely. But it is here. Making it go away just isn't realistic and getting rid of it now would, in my opinion, result in a nightmare.
I didn't know that about the Amish. I'm not sure the wife would go for those dresses, but I think I could pull off the hat and suspenders gig just fine.
HoneyBadger
03-20-2016, 17:44
Oh, I agree with you completely. But it is here. Making it go away just isn't realistic and getting rid of it now would, in my opinion, result in a nightmare.
I didn't know that about the Amish. I'm not sure the wife would go for those dresses, but I think I could pull off the hat and suspenders gig just fine.
As with the rest of socialism: Programs so good, they are mandatory and society without them would "result in a nightmare". I hate that this mess is our reality to live in, but I think we all agree that we should continue to fight the cancer's "progression" with all available means, the first of which, I argue, must be intellectual. Kind of a "give them an inch, and they'll take a mile" sort of thing. Yes, socialists are just like overgrown toddlers.
jhood001
03-21-2016, 00:11
As with the rest of socialism: Programs so good, they are mandatory and society without them would "result in a nightmare". I hate that this mess is our reality to live in, but I think we all agree that we should continue to fight the cancer's "progression" with all available means, the first of which, I argue, must be intellectual. Kind of a "give them an inch, and they'll take a mile" sort of thing. Yes, socialists are just like overgrown toddlers.
Believe what you want, but ending Social Security tomorrow would be a nightmare. Possibly not for you, because I don't know your exact life situation, but it would be for a large number of people.
Now, if you're talking about a gradual end to the program, your talk of ending it might not result in some sort of financial and/or social apocalypse. But saying we should simply 'scrap it' (which in my understanding translates to 'turn it off now') will result in a nightmare and I don't believe that you could realistically argue against that for a second. However, I don't know what your beliefs are when it comes to ending Social Security.
Do you suggest that all payments in are immediately ended and those retirees who are fully 'vested' continue to receive benefits under their known agreement with the state? And those who are partially vested still receive a partial payment at retirement based on how much they have already paid?
I guess those are some of the finer bits that I ponder when I hear anyone talk about ending an act that is close to 100 years old. Killing something that is un-constitutional and contrary to our beliefs sure sounds good until you actually go to do it.
There would have to be a bunch of other reforms that occurred at the exact same time to make it even remotely feasible. And getting those other items accomplished at the same time that you move to abolish one of the most popular programs in our government (all at the same time) is a fucking pipe-dream.
As with the rest of socialism: Programs so good, they are mandatory and society without them would "result in a nightmare". I hate that this mess is our reality to live in, but I think we all agree that we should continue to fight the cancer's "progression" with all available means, the first of which, I argue, must be intellectual. Kind of a "give them an inch, and they'll take a mile" sort of thing. Yes, socialists are just like overgrown toddlers.
When Madoff was caught with his Ponzi Scheme, what's the first thing that happened to him?
He was shut down. There is no other moral/practical way to handle the dismantling of a Ponzi.
The best thing that can be done is let people keep their own paychecks/property in hopes they can take care of themselves/others. Admit the theft. Maybe allow folks to have a write-off? Enhance the deductions for taking care of elderly parent?
Believe what you want, but ending Social Security tomorrow would be a nightmare. Possibly not for you, because I don't know your exact life situation, but it would be for a large number of people.
[snip]
Allowing it to continue is a nightmare. Read the following I posted on the previous page...
https://ir.citi.com/A9PruMxsx32cucD9nPyz6VOD1aXLcqQ1bFnuNFZcDqWVvkop5N YU6Q%3D%3D (PDF)
If you look at their recommendations (page 37) you will see all the harm you believe would happen anyway. One of their ideas is to raise the retirement age to 73. I am expected to live until 78.
Setting aside the morality of asking me to work from age 18-73 for five years of retirement "benefit" which will be less than the inflation adjusted value of contributions, is it really practical to think I can be productive and employed making enough to support myself to age 73? Will my mind and my body really hold out that long?
If I take a lesser paying job as a greeter at Walmart will I be able to support myself? If not, is there some other burden (program) that would have to make up the difference?
No thanks. Just let me keep the 12.6% (or whatever the full "contribution" is) and let's end it now.
P.S. My 78 years is based on the status quo of healthcare. Rationing will lower that number considerably as older Americans are seen as a risk to the system. "Letting them die" will not only save healthcare dollars but also SS dollars.
There's no such thing as just the tip.
Everyone should forget about Social Security anyway and develop your retirement plans as if it doesn't exist. That way, in the event that it does get shut down, you won't be affected personally.
problem is, and I just read a story about it again today, is that the "average" American simply is not saving near enough to even be able to retire, even with social security. Too many people live in the "today" frame of mind without thought about how they will live tomorrow.
I think most people can save enough to retire in their 40's if not 50's of they have the right mindset and start early. The problem is that social status is directly tired to how much stuff you have.
kidicarus13
03-21-2016, 13:03
problem is, and I just read a story about it again today, is that the "average" American simply is not saving near enough to even be able to retire, even with social security.
And that is why you'll continue to see older Americans greeting at Walmart and asking you to super-sized your extra value meal. The choices you make today affect you tomorrow.
HoneyBadger
03-21-2016, 13:49
Jhood, I don't disagree with anything you're saying. It is a mess and like any drug-dependent looter, cutting everyone off cold turkey is going to be the most painful way to do it, but sometimes it's the best way. I think anyone that has paid into the system should get back what they have paid in, with interest. The obvious problem with no easy solution is that the money simply isn't there. I would be perfectly happy surrendering my losses and being able to immediately exempt myself from the program, but I've only been paying into it for a decade, so my losses wouldn't be that great.
As Irving says, I have always assumed that social (in)security is not going to be there when I'm old enough to collect, so I've been working to create my own future instead of relying on the government (which has a fantastic track record with handling money, right? [LOL]) to take care of me when I'm older.
You guys must have missed the real investment thread a while back... [Coffee] (about 20-30 pages back in the PWT, Irving and I were having some really good investment discussions)
Batteriesnare
03-21-2016, 14:00
The obvious problem with no easy solution is that the money simply isn't there.
Respectfully, this isn't quite the case. The currency will always be there, but as Dr. Greenspan said, the Fed/.gov cannot guarantee its purchasing power. The .gov will continue to pay SS payments but the value (and faith) of and in the currency will be next to zero.
HoneyBadger
03-21-2016, 14:22
Respectfully, this isn't quite the case. The currency will always be there, but as Dr. Greenspan said, the Fed/.gov cannot guarantee its purchasing power. The .gov will continue to pay SS payments but the value (and faith) of and in the currency will be next to zero.
Oh sure, it's all monopoly money, but I was talking about the actual money within the social security program. The SS program as it stands right now doesn't even have enough money to sustain itself for more than a few years. That's all I meant when I said the money isn't there. The fed can always just inflate us out of national debt (and into universal poverty).
Batteriesnare
03-21-2016, 14:28
Gotcha, yes the SS program is balance sheet insolvent. You're right it's all monopoly money, but that's never stopped them before!
Oh sure, it's all monopoly money, but I was talking about the actual money within the social security program. The SS program as it stands right now doesn't even have enough money to sustain itself for more than a few years. That's all I meant when I said the money isn't there. The fed can always just inflate us out of national debt (and into universal poverty).
Personally I wish the program would change to eventually end. People under 35 stop paying in, get nothing, no $$ back from what they invested but will have the rest of their working lives to make up for it with the extra $$ they will get each paycheck. Those over 35-40 will pay a smaller portion and get a smaller portion. And it goes up incrementally from there with folks over 50 paying in and still receiving full benefits. So in roughly 30 years the program won't exist, those entering the workforce now will have extra money to save for retirement. And a new program requiring employers to give information to new employees explaining saving and 401k and IRA options with matching options given to the employee for saving money as employers will also be saving $$ as well.
Personally I wish the program would change to eventually end. People under 35 stop paying in, get nothing, no $$ back from what they invested but will have the rest of their working lives to make up for it with the extra $$ they will get each paycheck. Those over 35-40 will pay a smaller portion and get a smaller portion. And it goes up incrementally from there with folks over 50 paying in and still receiving full benefits. So in roughly 30 years the program won't exist, those entering the workforce now will have extra money to save for retirement. And a new program requiring employers to give information to new employees explaining saving and 401k and IRA options with matching options given to the employee for saving money as employers will also be saving $$ as well.
Should workers be required to show proof of investing or be penalized? You know, kind of like Obamacare?
Otherwise, what happens to those non-savers that aren't Amish?
HoneyBadger
03-21-2016, 15:46
Otherwise, what happens to those non-savers that aren't Amish?
Then they get to wallow in their own failures for the rest of their existence instead of having having the government force other people to sustain them. Yes, I'm a heartless bastard. Don't like your situation, then do something about it. If anything, saving and investing should be one of the few components of a national education standard (like common core).
2 Thessalonians 3:10 (NKJV)
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
Then they get to wallow in their own failures for the rest of their existence instead of having having the government force other people to sustain them. Yes, I'm a heartless bastard. Don't like your situation, then do something about it. If anything, saving and investing should be one of the few components of a national education standard (like common core).
Personal responsibility? These days? LOL.
Should workers be required to show proof of investing or be penalized? You know, kind of like Obamacare?
Otherwise, what happens to those non-savers that aren't Amish?
Well, some people will be glad to flaunt how much they've saved/gained, if they see it as socially acceptable or advantageous.
If social media has proven anything to me, it's that a targeted subset of society can be pressured to do something through peer pressure or ridicule, when there is enough "noise". Negative reinforcement works magnificently when someone/some group is publicly humiliated for something they should have had control over or done differently.
There is a downside to it though... "shaming" someone is frowned upon, so it has to be done generically...
A positive reinforcement method should work too, but as we can plainly see, it doesn't.
HoneyBadger
03-21-2016, 16:49
Personal responsibility? These days? LOL.
I know, WE'RE the crazy ones here for even talking about it... [Roll1] What a shame that personal responsibility has turned into such a joke. 99.9% of liberals/progressives/socialists wouldn't recognize personal responsibility if it hit them in the forehead.
I say it every election. Republicans stand up at the podium and promise jobs for everyone, Demonrats stand up there and promise free stuff for everyone even if you don't work. Guess who wins? With this frame of mind, how do they fund there own retirement. Answer: They will just wait for a few election cycles to go by then elect somebody that will promise a retirement that they don't have to pay for.
My online savings account now has a precious metals section when I log in. Looks like right now they are only dealing in gold bullion. I found that interesting.
I did they aren't in silver. Maybe not volatile enough? I know since I started investing it really hasn't changed dramatically like I thought.
Great-Kazoo
03-27-2016, 05:15
I did they aren't in silver. Maybe not volatile enough? I know since I started investing it really hasn't changed dramatically like I thought.
Silver is along term fallback savings, not one of those i can turn around and make $$$ within 6 months. You want that type of PM profit. Invest in Al , lead, brass.
Explanation of QE from The Economist - http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/03/economist-explains-5
To carry out QE central banks create money by buying securities, such as government bonds, from banks, with electronic cash that did not exist before. The new money swells the size of bank reserves in the economy by the quantity of assets purchased—hence "quantitative" easing.
Electronic cash makes its way into the marketplace devaluing the USD, Euro, Yen, Yuan, etc.
Gold and sliver are hedges against this currency devaluation, so are guns, ammunition, long-term food (Mountain House #10 cans with 25 year life expectancy), your own skills.
Please notice that the DOW, NASDAQ, S&P 500 haven't moved up since the US discontinued the QE program at the 4th iteration; that is an indicator that the growth of these fiat paper markets since 2009 is artificial.
For those of you dependent on fiat paper don't worry, QE5 is on the way, then your accounts will start in increase in "value" once again. The EU are scheduled to complete their current round of QE after September 2016, I don't believe Japan can stop their QE programs, the Japanese economy would certainly take a HUGE hit that they cannot afford not that they can afford the long term effects of QE but I digress.
Japan QE - http://www.economist.com/news/finance-economics/21684516-central-bank-joins-effort-get-japanese-companies-spend-their-cash
The BoJ began its QE—printing money to buy bonds—in April 2013, and in October 2014 it expanded the programme to ¥80 trillion a year ($660 billion at the current exchange rate), up from between ¥60 trillion and ¥70 trillion a year. This time it left the pace of its annual asset purchases unchanged. But it did make four minor adjustments, largely to facilitate and fine-tune what it was doing already.
Once a country starts QE, it quickly becomes dependent on it and it just keeps digging. There is no drug quite like creating money from thin air.
beast556
04-01-2016, 11:03
Silver back under 15$ today. Would love to see it hit 10$.
Do you still think your 401K or whatever is safe from the depredations of the federal, state, and local governments? Think again and plan accordingly. A good bit of reading if you're up for it, Bastion of Liberty has a nice summary.
http://www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204/bp204.pdf
Teresa Ghilarducci has spoken before various federal and state legislatures, she believes in equality of outcome and you'll see that in anything you read that was written by her. This is the kind of poppycock she spouts:
Is the system fair? A retirement system should not exacerbate income and wealth inequality.
Tax breaks for 401(k)s and other voluntary retirement accounts are skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do so.
There it is, fairness, as in you have more than I do and that's not fair. The next action is that I'm going to use the force of government to take from you and give to me to make things more fair for me. Nevermind that you worked hard your whole life and I lived a life of sloth and envy, I am entitled to whatever you have.
http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/04/carrots-sticks-and-great-heaping-mounds.html
But then, your investment advisor is a private party, probably the employee of a company that specializes in that sort of work. A private company or self-employed financial advisor must perform or go under. One that underperforms for two or three quarters is likely to get a serious talking-to by his management. One that underperforms for two or three years is likely to take up residence in a cardboard box. And by “underperform,” I don’t mean “lose money;” I mean “doesn’t keep up with market averages,” at the very least. The ones that advise so poorly that they actually lose their clients’ money are in much worse trouble than that. Now imagine that instead of that private advisor and his supervisors if he has any, your retirement savings were managed by a state government...or perhaps by the federal government itself.
Changes the whole picture, doesn’t it?
Emphasis mine. What is your recourse if the feds lose all your retirement in some "investment" in say solar power. Who are you going to sue for damages? The government? Don't be ridiculous, that would be the same as suing yourself. Your money is gone, you have no recourse except to find a job to work until you die in poverty.
The Department of Labor says its so-called fiduciary rule will make financial advisers act in the best interests of clients. What Labor doesn’t say is that the rule carries such enormous potential legal liability and demands such a high standard of care that many advisers will shun non-affluent accounts. Middle-income investors may be forced to look elsewhere for financial advice even as Team Obama is enabling a raft of new government-run competitors for retirement savings. This is no coincidence. Labor’s new rule will start biting in January as the President is leaving office. Under the rule, financial firms advising workers moving money out of company 401(k) plans into Individual Retirement Accounts will have to follow the new higher standards. But Labor has already proposed waivers from the federal Erisa law so new state-run retirement plans don’t have the same regulatory burden as private employers do.
http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-true-dimensions-of-egalitarianism.html
Whenever some noisy interest group starts prattling about “equality” or “rights,” a smart man puts one hand on his wallet and the other on his sidearm.
I'll have to read this whole thing when I get home, but I don't find it as discouraging as you do. I definitely DON'T want the government involved in my investing though.
I am making the assumption that the government will spend the money I have earned for my retirement and when I am qualified to collect it nothing will be there. I suppose the government could do what it is doing now and borrow to cover its obligation to me, like it does with SS now. I think it would be wise to presume that 15-20 years down the road no financial entity will be willing to loan money to the US government, but then again we're talking about FedRes who at the behest of FedGov can create money out of thin air, devalued money but money nonetheless.
Are you referring to social security, or things like 401ks in the stock market? I wouldn't worry as much about stuff in the stock market because that is not government money. Well, I suppose there are bonds. HoneyBadger has a better handle on what government money is floating around in investment portfolios.
HoneyBadger
04-08-2016, 20:19
Are you referring to social security, or things like 401ks in the stock market? I wouldn't worry as much about stuff in the stock market because that is not government money. Well, I suppose there are bonds. HoneyBadger has a better handle on what government money is floating around in investment portfolios.
I do? [LOL]
I'm up to very nearly $100 invested in the stock market! I got my first two dividend distributions today of $.01 each!
I'm up to very nearly $100 invested in the stock market! I got my first two dividend distributions today of $.01 each!
I don't want to jinx it, but my meager investment in Lending Club is so far showing good returns.
If I pulled every penny out of my 401K and ESOP, LC would considerably outperform them.
I don't want to jinx it, but my meager investment in Lending Club is so far showing good returns.
If I pulled every penny out of my 401K and ESOP, LC would considerably outperform them.
For your reading pleasure, in chronological order.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/24/the-lending-club-experiment/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/03/the-lending-club-experiment-four-months-later/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/12/lending-club-profits-and-your-taxes/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/26/the-lending-club-experiment-at-one-year-the-gravy-train-grows-crowded/
Great-Kazoo
04-08-2016, 23:14
I'll have to read this whole thing when I get home, but I don't find it as discouraging as you do. I definitely DON'T want the government involved in my investing though.
They already are.
I've been thinking about this stuff all weekend.
I think one of the biggest problems the government faces is maintaining the profit motive and work ethic of the producers while taxing the ever-loving shit out of them at the same time. They really have to walk a fine line here b/c once the profit motive is gone nothing new will be created and any work that needs to be done will have to done under force. Outside of human charity humans simply do not volunteer to work for free for someone else's benefit. I'll certainly spend time, money, and effort to benefit someone I know and trust that needs a little help, what I won't do is work my current hi-tech job for free or at a greatly reduced salary.
MAP brought this to my attention over the weekend.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/simple-janet-jabbering-on-the-edge-of-a-live-volcano/
Thus, GAAP earnings of the S&P 500 in November 2014 were $106 per share on an LTM basis compared to $86.44 today. So earnings are down by 18.5%, meaning that the broad market PE multiple has escalated from an already sporty 19.3X back then to an outlandish 23.7X today.
Always and everywhere, such persistent profit collapses have signaled recession just around the corner. And there are plenty of macro-economic data points signaling just that.
For instance, total US business sales have fallen by 5.1% since mid-2014—-even as inventories have soared. This means that while Wall Street speculators have been dancing on the edge of the volcano for 18 months, the US economy’s tepid rebound has been petering out.
During the stock market’s most recent dead-cat bounce, the signals that the US economy is drifting into a downturn have only grown more frequent and intense. For instance, class 8 truck orders—-a classic leading indicator—–are now plunging. At the same time, inventories haven’t been this high since early 2007.
FedGov/FedRes have been painting a rosy picture with the help of Pravda/Izvestia, perhaps the true picture isn't so rosy.
Silver is pushing toward $16 this morning. WTI is over $40 and Brent is over $42, pump price will be going up.
beast556
04-11-2016, 11:37
Silver and gold have bolth made a good jump today.
JohnTRourke
04-11-2016, 12:36
oh dudes, silver is going up big from here, this is the bottom, I guarantee it
I just sold a good batch of it today, so that should pretty much be the bottom.
[fail]
oh dudes, silver is going up big from here, this is the bottom, I guarantee it
I just sold a good batch of it today, so that should pretty much be the bottom.
[fail]
I did my part to help too, I sold a bunch of gold miners on Friday. ;-)
oh dudes, silver is going up big from here, this is the bottom, I guarantee it
I just sold a good batch of it today, so that should pretty much be the bottom.
[fail]
I did my part to help too, I sold a bunch of gold miners on Friday. ;-)
That is how it seems doesn't it. :)
Silver appears to be solidifying its move to the $16 handle, gold and oil are up a little bit too.
JohnTRourke
04-12-2016, 06:57
you could make millions doing the opposite of what i do
[NoClue]
lol - i know what you mean.
I bought in at $40 silver and it has gone to $13.50 in the short term, while I have lost value on paper I haven't realized those losses by selling my holdings, so I have that going for me plus I'm in for the long term 20+ years.
The Fed and the administration want the dollar to fall. This will boost exports and make imports more expensive. Holding Silver and Gold will protect your capital.
Yeah, I helped this along too. Just made a deal over the weekend trading some silver eagles. Doh!
The Fed and the administration want the dollar to fall. This will boost exports and make imports more expensive. Holding Silver and Gold will protect your capital.
I don't know that they want it to fail, but........remember when obama said "no nation should be greater than any other nation" or some such horsecrap? By that statement I think this administration wants the USD to be closer in value to other currencies instead of being the ALMIGHTY USD like the USD should be. More equality of outcome baloney from our communist masters.
Aloha_Shooter
04-12-2016, 13:54
I think the administration NEEDS the dollar to fall so they can payback all the loans with dollars that are worth less. I think Obama would further like to hurt US power by devaluing the currency and having the Chinese yuan be the new reserve currency but I suspect the financiers who backed his campaigns are fighting that.
No (D) administration is going to pay anything back, they'll default first. I agree with you on devaluation and that Wall Street is fighting it.
Silver has jumped up nearly 5% to the $17 handle.
bobbyfairbanks
04-19-2016, 09:37
I was up a lot last night watching it. We may be starting the run.
HoneyBadger
04-19-2016, 09:55
Did anyone here buy into XIV when I was talking about it back in Jan/Feb? It got down to $16 then, and today it's $28.50. I know it's not PMs, but since we were talking about it, I figured it was worth an update. TSLA is another stock I'll be carefully watching over the next few months.
Jefe's AR
04-19-2016, 10:26
Did anyone here buy into XIV when I was talking about it back in Jan/Feb? It got down to $16 then, and today it's $28.50. I know it's not PMs, but since we were talking about it, I figured it was worth an update. TSLA is another stock I'll be carefully watching over the next few months.
Thinking about picking up Amazon. It's over $600/share and should be splitting soon.
HoneyBadger
04-19-2016, 10:45
Thinking about picking up Amazon. It's over $600/share and should be splitting soon.
My mutual funds all have Amazon as one of the top holdings and they have done pretty well over the past few years, mostly due to Amazon's success. Amazon has a very secure (and still expanding) hold on that market.
BushMasterBoy
04-19-2016, 21:21
Silver seems to be on the rise now it broke $17.
Did anyone here buy into XIV when I was talking about it back in Jan/Feb? It got down to $16 then, and today it's $28.50. I know it's not PMs, but since we were talking about it, I figured it was worth an update. TSLA is another stock I'll be carefully watching over the next few months.
Same on TSLA.
TSLA holding much better than I thought at cheap oil p.
I don't know I wanna go long on it, but worth plaYing little $ with technicals.
Jefe's AR
04-20-2016, 08:39
My mutual funds all have Amazon as one of the top holdings and they have done pretty well over the past few years, mostly due to Amazon's success. Amazon has a very secure (and still expanding) hold on that market.
What's more are their data centers being leased by EVERYONE. Including Apple and Google to name a few. Look in a UPS truck and you'll wonder why it doesn't say Amazon on the side of the truck. USPS too. Ask a UPS driver who really keeps them in business today.
I wasn't looking at Apple but my BIL says it's likely to see some growth this year due to lack of growth last year. Should start seeing some cool tech coming from them soon. They're beginning to produce original content for AppleTV. And are still strong among youth.
A little article about Japan and the financial mess they've created, lots of parallels with the EU and USA.
https://mises.org/blog/how-central-planners-crippled-japan%E2%80%99s-economy
Japan's Keynesian death spiral began almost three decades ago. In 1986 the value of the Japanese yen almost doubled relative to the US dollar. Consequently, Japan's mammoth export sector took a beating. Businesses with political influence found they could achieve higher returns not by innovating or cutting costs, but rather, by pressuring the political and monetary elite to flood the market with cheap credit.
Aloha_Shooter
04-24-2016, 07:42
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121859171593?&RILT=Link_2016_Silver_Eagles&utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016-4-22-eBay-3-products
20 ASEs, $392.40 w/ free shipping
Jefe's AR
04-27-2016, 09:05
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121859171593?&RILT=Link_2016_Silver_Eagles&utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016-4-22-eBay-3-products
20 ASEs, $392.40 w/ free shipping
Bought some yesterday through another seller who was a few $$ cheaper. Click the link and it's $26 more. Guess silver is on the rise. I bought in at $410.
$408 currently.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231827624979?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Aloha_Shooter
04-27-2016, 10:23
Yeah, it was already $1 more expensive on Monday morning. Silver has been rising a little since Friday so I'm not surprised the price has risen commensurately.
beast556
04-28-2016, 11:08
I was really hoping silver was going to hit 10$. Looks like thats not going to happen any time soon.
Meanwhile, oil continues to march upward. WTI over $45 and Brent over $47.
Jefe's AR
04-29-2016, 09:52
Thinking about picking up Amazon. It's over $600/share and should be splitting soon.
My mutual funds all have Amazon as one of the top holdings and they have done pretty well over the past few years, mostly due to Amazon's success. Amazon has a very secure (and still expanding) hold on that market.
What's more are their data centers being leased by EVERYONE. Including Apple and Google to name a few. Look in a UPS truck and you'll wonder why it doesn't say Amazon on the side of the truck. USPS too. Ask a UPS driver who really keeps them in business today.
I wasn't looking at Apple but my BIL says it's likely to see some growth this year due to lack of growth last year. Should start seeing some cool tech coming from them soon. They're beginning to produce original content for AppleTV. And are still strong among youth.
Glad I picked up Amazon last week. Holy shit![panic]
Jefe's AR
04-29-2016, 09:53
And there's a sale on Apple right now. If it hits under $90 you should really consider picking some up.
Gold is driving on $1300 and silver on $18; WTI and Brent are down just a little bit today.
Jefe's AR
04-29-2016, 10:03
Gold is driving on $1300 and silver on $18; WTI and Brent are down just a little bit today.
Back to $408 for 20 oz.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121859171593?&RILT=Link_2016_Silver_Eagles&utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016-4-22-eBay-3-products
Jefe's AR
05-10-2016, 11:51
Apple is still on sale right now. Hit a low of $92. I'm still buying. I'm reading that Apple may buy Netflix, so I bought Netflix. Which in of itself is doing well but today felt like a good time to buy in.
And Amazon hit $700 today.
Jefe's AR
05-10-2016, 14:57
Interesting read written this morning.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3973474-amazon-vs-ebay?page=2
TLDR: Amazon long, EBay short.
I have been long OIL and GSG, along with several oil/gas companies and have been trading with the volatility since the first week in February. It has proven very lucrative so far, albeit highly volatile. There's still tremendous upside potential even if crude only climbs a fraction of where it peaked 2+ years ago.
Jefe's AR
05-10-2016, 16:24
I have been long OIL and GSG, along with several oil/gas companies and have been trading with the volatility since the first week in February. It has proven very lucrative so far, albeit highly volatile. There's still tremendous upside potential even if crude only climbs a fraction of where it peaked 2+ years ago.
I see oil as a good investment whether it be commodities or stocks in companies producing/selling.
Jefe's AR
05-10-2016, 16:28
According to one guy, it's not too late to get into Amazon. Not even by a long shot.
http://fortune.com/2016/05/10/why-amazon-could-reach-1000-a-share/
MOST analysts agree there's a lot of room left. ONE believes $1,000/share is possible in the next 12 months.
Also, if you scroll down to the next article, there's an interesting idea by Volvo for package delivery. Game changer if you ask me.
It's also a decent business idea. Build a lockable box that sits, secured, on your porch and your delivery guy has a code.
Aloha_Shooter
05-21-2016, 08:13
$383.40 from APMEX on eBay this weekend: http://www.ebay.com/itm/121859171593?&RILT=Link_2016_Silver_Eagles&utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016-5-20-eBay-4-products
John Maynard Keynes was a charlatan. The government's embrace of Keynesianism is the basis for all of its wrong-headed thinking regarding the economy and the governments role in the economy.
If Keynes hadn’t come along, statists looking for plausible-sounding rationales from the economics profession would have invented him. To the extent there is any analytic rigor within economics, Keynes makes no contribution to it. His economics are politics with more than enough abstruse drivel to con the gullible. From Llewellyn H. Rockwell at lewrockwell.com:
https://straightlinelogic.com/2016/05/23/keynes-must-die-by-llewellyn-h-rockwell-jr/
Murray minced no words, referring to Keynesianism as “the most successful and pernicious hoax in the history of economic thought.” “All of the Keynesian thinking,” he added, “is a tissue of distortions, fallacies, and drastically unrealistic assumptions.”
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