NFA questions (newbie)

[kwando]

I know you are prob saying... AGAIN!!!

I am posting for a "friend" who just setup a NFA trust. He is in the process of applying for his stamps.

Are the steps basically the following to convert his non NFA 16" AR15 to a SBR:

1. Get lower engraved
2. Buy 11.5" barrel
3. Fill out form 1, fill out details with SN, trust info, barrel length, rifle details, etc
4. Mail form 1 with copy of trust with revised schedule A and $200 check
5. Wait
6. When stamp arrives, swap barrel
7. Enjoy


Sorry if this is a stupid question, I told him I'd help "him". :)

TIA

[USMC88-93]

Move steps one and two til after step six. Do not have the barrel in your possession til after approval (constructive possession), and I wouldn't bother engraving til you have your approved paperwork back as well but that is just my preference.

[kwando]

Just read of horror stories about engravers screwing up lowers, and needing to change the lower. I guess if choosing a good engraver that knows what they are doing its less of a worry.

Barrel makes sense I was just trying to acquire one first instead of waiting even longer for one if the barrel is OOS

[DFBrews]

Build a pistol lower how he is going to have the rifle set up while he waits for the stamp to come back no constructive intent

i have a couple pistol lowers and 3 different short uppers

[ray1970]

Barrel makes sense I was just trying to acquire one first instead of waiting even longer for one if the barrel is OOS

You'll have plenty of time to find a barrel. You'll be waiting half a year or more for your stamp anyways.

[NFATrustGuy]

I'll let those with more real-world experience chime in with specifics on the build process/timeline, but as for the Trust submission... If this is the first thing you'll be adding to the Trust, you should submit the original Schedule A with only the $10 bill listed. Remember: your Trust doesn't actually own the NFA-regulated item until AFTER the application is approved. It is very likely that your application will be denied if you list the pending item on the Schedule A.

The Schedule A is just a list of the Trust's assets. The Form 4/Form 1 is essentially an application where you seek the approval of the ATF to allow the Trust to buy a new toy. Logically, then, the Trust doesn't already own the toy at the time of application.

Rod

[Great-Kazoo]

Just read of horror stories about engravers screwing up lowers, and needing to change the lower. I guess if choosing a good engraver that knows what they are doing its less of a worry.

Barrel makes sense MY FRIEND was just trying to acquire one first instead of waiting even longer for one if the barrel is OOS

BBl's are no problem. I suggest an 11.5 for a short one . This way once you get the stamp approval for your suppressor [ yes you'll have one sooner than later] it should run with little if any issues. I have not had any on the 11.5's i run. Most suppressor mfg suggest a 11.5 to avoid "potential" issues as they might happen on shorter ones. I know a few running supressed 10" uppers.
Upon you FRIEND getting approved, IF he cannot locate a bbl have Burt cut, thread and recrown one.
Remember Look for solutions, Not Problems.

[kwando]

Build a pistol lower how he is going to have the rifle set up while he waits for the stamp to come back no constructive intent

i have a couple pistol lowers and 3 different short uppers

Lower is already assembled as a rifle from MY understanding it cannot be a pistol, again I am no expert.



Thx for the reply Ray, Rod and Jim!!

[Great-Kazoo]

Lower is already assembled as a rifle from MY understanding it cannot be a pistol, again I am no expert.



Thx for the reply Ray, Rod and Jim!!

Did you buy the lower NEW or used, assembled? I have a stripped lower that was sold as OTHER, and yes i'm over 21[physically]

[NFATrustGuy]

I can attest to the fact that Jim is [waaaay] over 21.

:-)

[O2HeN2]

Here are a couple existing threads for you...

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/75119-NFA-Form-1-questions-for-a-first-timer-in-El-Paso-County
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/60985-Person-very-familiar-with-NFA-items (let us call this a "lively" discussion)

Reader's digest version:

1) Make sure the lower works before you invest in a $200 stamp for it.
2) If you're interested in looks, engrave it first so if the engraver screws up, you can get another lower.
3) You can get the barrel, just store it with a friend who doesn't own any ARs while waiting for a stamp.
4) Then do the stamp.

O2

Ps. You're right, once you put a butt stock on it, you can't go back to a pistol.

[Great-Kazoo]

Here are a couple existing threads for you...

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/75119-NFA-Form-1-questions-for-a-first-timer-in-El-Paso-County
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/60985-Person-very-familiar-with-NFA-items (let us call this a "lively" discussion)

Reader's digest version:

1) Make sure the lower works before you invest in a $200 stamp for it.
2) If you're interested in looks, engrave it first so if the engraver screws up, you can get another lower.
3) You can get the barrel, just store it with a friend who doesn't own any ARs while waiting for a stamp.
4) Then do the stamp.

O2

Ps. You're right, once you put a butt stock on it, you can't go back to a pistol.

You can go from pistol to rifle back to pistol
PROVIDING the muzzle device is permanently attached so as to not be removable w/out cutting off the weld or blind pin. Another example is the Glock Carbine conversion which comes with a complete "carbine" length upper that goes on your G frame.
http://www.mechtechsys.com/

You can also go from your SBR back to a pistol once you send a letter to the ATF asking them to remove it from the NFA registry.

You cannot go from rifle to pistol w/out ATF form 1 approval.

A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

[O2HeN2]

You can go from pistol to rifle back to pistol. You cannot go from rifle to pistol.
I stand corrected. But if it starts its life out as a rifle you can't. Makes perfect sense, NOT.

ATF Ruling 2011-4 (http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf)

O2

[Great-Kazoo]

I stand corrected. But if it starts its life out as a rifle you can't. Makes perfect sense, NOT.

ATF Ruling 2011-4 (http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf)

O2

No Shittake mushroom. Short to long Good. Long to Short BAD[facepalm]

I have 3 stamps in the aft process, possible august -oct approval.

[O2HeN2]

No Shittake mushroom. Short to long Good. Long to Short BAD[facepalm]
That much I knew, short to long to short being OK surprised the heck out of me.

O2

[Great-Kazoo]

That much I knew, short to long to short being OK surprised the heck out of me.

O2

It's what i did to my Draco. Once my F1 comes back, OFF with it F/hider
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/gun%20pic%20place/000_0005-1.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/gun%20pic%20place/000_0006.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/gun%20pic%20place/000_0004-2.jpg

[buckshotbarlow]

I can attest to the fact that Jim is [waaaay] over 21.

:-)

according to his avatar...was he born before the wheel was invented, then invented it and made a motorcycle out of it?