Your "Go to home defense SHTF firearm!

Closest I can to a bullshit flag on the birdshot and shock wave theory. [Cheer]
I have seen those of middle easetern decent keep coming after 5 or 6 9mm rounds through them. Granted diffrent circumstances then a home invasion, just saying.

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/ima...es/BS-Flag.gif

Best I could do on short notice.

Smart ASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/ima...es/BS-Flag.gif

Best I could do on short notice.

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http://www.alldeaf.com/images/smilies/bsflag.gif

Here's a better one.

Huge Smast ASS!!!! I can do it on other boards, Im puter retard!!

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

http://www.alldeaf.com/images/smilies/bsflag.gif

Here's a better one.

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Originally Posted by DD977GM2

Smart ASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yeah, I know. There's prolly one for that, too!

I've also had to deliver 5-6 5.56 rounds through a 110 lb hadji to stop one. Your opinion does not change fact. My experiences are true whether you believe them or not. Unless you have MD after your name, do some homework before throwing the BS flag.

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Originally Posted by coloccw

PM sent....please do your homework before talking...

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The complete crap you wrote is ridiculous on it's face and flies counter to the plethora on information regarding small arms wounding factors.

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Originally Posted by coloccw

I've seen the results (first hand)of an intruder shot with #6 shot at 37 feet. It took the doc hours to remove the 142 pellets from the body since the shock from the multiple wound channels damaged the internal organs to the point where they were almost liquid.

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You are claiming that some mythical "shock" from a #6 birdshot liquefied the internal organs of a human being. That is complete crap. I have shot game with birdshot at approx 40 feet and have absolutely never seen liquefied internal organs.

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Originally Posted by FBI Agent Urey Patrick

from "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness"
Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet."

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Originally Posted by Gary Roberts

Absent CNS damage, circulatory system collapse from severe disruption of the vital organs and blood vessels in the torso is the only other reliable method of physiological incapacitation from small arms. If the CNS is uninjured, physiological incapacitation is delayed until blood loss is sufficient to deprive the brain of oxygen. Multiple hits may be needed before an individual is physiologically incapacitated. An individual wounded in any area of the body other than the CNS may physiologically be able to continue their actions for a short period of time, even with non-survivable injuries. In a 1992 IWBA Journal paper, Dr. Ken Newgard wrote the following about how blood loss effects incapacitation:

“A 70 kg male has a cardiac output of around 5.5 liters per minute. His blood volume is about 4200 cc. Assuming that his cardiac output can double under stress, his aortic blood flow can reach 11 Liters per minute. If this male had his thoracic aorta totally severed, it would take him 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his total blood volume. This is the minimum amount of time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. A marginally trained person can fire at a rate of two shots per second. In 4.6 seconds there could easily be 9 shots of return fire before the assailant’s activity is neutralized. Note this analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perusing the brain that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.”

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Man! I just don’t see that miniscule #6 birdshot pellets have the mass and the “shock” to liquefy internal organs!!

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Originally Posted by coloccw

Remember, it's not the bullet that causes most of the damage in a gunshot, but rather the over/under pressure to the air filled cavities in the body that kills somone.

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Another point that absolutely is counter to all the evidence of small arms wounding.

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Originally Posted by Gary Roberts

All projectiles that penetrate the body can only disrupt tissue by these two wounding mechanisms: the localized crushing of tissue in the bullet's path and the transient stretching of tissue adjacent to the wound track. Projectile wounds differ in the amount and location of crushed and stretched tissue. The relative contribution by each of these mechanisms to any wound depends on the physical characteristics of the projectile, its size, weight, shape, construction, and velocity, penetration depth and the type of tissue with which the projectile interacts.

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If you are a small arms professional, and a subject matter expert when it comes to modern small arms like you said to me in your PM then post your credentials and the documented facts that support your ludicrous claims. You state absolutely silly things like birdshot causing shock that liquefies internal organs I am going to call you on it. Then in the PM to me you say:

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Originally Posted by coloccw

If you wish to challenge my credentials, then you should do your research first. I am a firearms, explosives, and medical instructor for Military and LE. Our company is staffed by former military special operations and LE operators, and the ONLY civilian company authorized to conduct Live Tissue Training (goat lab from SF course).

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Consider yourself challenged get your credentials posted up here ASAP, and show me the data and evidence where birdshot is more effective at incapacitating a human than 00 buckshot, I am especially interested in seeing the evidence of birdshot causing this amazing internal organ liquefying shock!!

Cameron

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Originally Posted by coloccw

I've also had to deliver 5-6 5.56 rounds through a 110 lb hadji to stop one. Your opinion does not change fact. My experiences are true whether you believe them or not. Unless you have MD after your name, do some homework before throwing the BS flag.

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people can die from bee stings too but I am not loading my shotgun up with bee stingers! The human body is extremely resiliant and yet fragile at the same time. Some men can live through a 50rds of small arms fire and some men take a minor hit to the brain box(technical term) and die. But at the end of the day I think as far as stopping power,lethallity buckshot is far and beyond birdshot. I dont want my intruder dieing at the ER I want them dead before they hit the ground, but I am just a humane guy like that.

Carey H. MD

HA! I have an MD after my name!

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Originally Posted by Cameron

The complete crap you wrote is ridiculous on it's face and flies counter to the plethora on information regarding small arms wounding factors.



You are claiming that some mythical "shock" from a #6 birdshot liquefied the internal organs of a human being. That is complete crap. I have shot game with birdshot at approx 40 feet and have absolutely never seen liquefied internal organs.





Man! I just don’t see that miniscule #6 birdshot pellets have the mass and the “shock” to liquefy internal organs!!


Another point that absolutely is counter to all the evidence of small arms wounding.


If you are a small arms professional, and a subject matter expert when it comes to modern small arms like you said to me in your PM then post your credentials and the documented facts that support your ludicrous claims. You state absolutely silly things like birdshot causing shock that liquefies internal organs I am going to call you on it. Then in the PM to me you say:



Consider yourself challenged get your credentials posted up here ASAP, and show my the data and evidence where birdshot is more effective at incapacitating a human than 00 buckshot, I am especially interested in seeming the evidence of birdshot causing this amazing internal organ liquefying shock.

Cameron

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uber pownage