Massad Ayoob "Lethal Force Aftermath" interview and reloads for self defense in a trial

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

You're going to be sued in civil court, no matter what.
One item i forgot to touch on regarding reloads, not sure about everyone else. EVERYTHING i load is to factory / mfg specs. PLUS they are at the low - medium end of data. There's nothing hot rod, death dealing in any of the manuals OR mfg on line loads. Sue me, sue them, which they will in today's litigious society.

Slightly OT regarding lawsuits. Talking with an ins rep for coverage on someones business. They said the manufacturer is just a small portion of a lawsuit. They opposing team will go after the insured, the mfg of tooling, parts / individual components of said finished product. Going for the throat of the deepest pockets.

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>>You're going to be sued in civil court, no matter what.<<

Perhaps, BUT, the Colorado statute also includes immunity from civil action - ref C.R.S. 18-1-704.5 (4):

Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

FYI

Somewhere I have the list of cases where the prosecution used handloads against the defense. It goes back to the 70's

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Originally Posted by Hoser

If Ayoob told me the sky was blue, I would go check.

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^This. From what I've read, he was only involved in 1 case where this GSR from handloads was an issue, and it wasn't in the context in which you'd think... I'm not concerned about it, bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

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Originally Posted by DHC

>>You're going to be sued in civil court, no matter what.<<

Perhaps, BUT, the Colorado statute also includes immunity from civil action - ref C.R.S. 18-1-704.5 (4):

Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

FYI

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Thanks for sharing that

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Somewhere I have the list of cases where the prosecution used handloads against the defense. It goes back to the 70's

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I would be really interested to see some actual court cases so I can stop spouting useless speculation. If you could post this list, that would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DHC

>>You're going to be sued in civil court, no matter what.<<

Perhaps, BUT, the Colorado statute also includes immunity from civil action - ref C.R.S. 18-1-704.5 (4):

Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

FYI

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I was replying to HB's post. You are protected where the use of force was in a home / dwelling. HB was referring to out in public. Something not covered under
C.R.S. 18-1-704.5 (4)

Well, this is the first I've ever heard of him NOT called, "Massage A-Boob".

Learn sumpin' new everyday....

I have been taught from my first personal defense with a firearm course, on your defense firearm use these key points to minimize your exposure and liability..

do not modify the trigger
shoot factory ammo recommended to you from a reliable source.

because if the shooting is called into question, having a custom 3.5lb trigger on your weapon, will cause eyebrows to raise, and using hand loads could possible make the DA frothy..
this of course does depend on the state, CA/NY/IL I would be worried, they start frothy.. CO/KS/NE/WY/OK/TX not so much..

as for the ammo I use in my pistol for defense, its the same stuff that Aurora PD uses (critical defense), it was recommended by an officer during a class as a good solid round..
(I did not chose the most deadly round, I followed guidance from a subject mater expert)

I was also told by the a for mentioned member of the PD, if your in a shooting, don't make a lot of statements..
PD will not talk to the shoot investigator until there is an attorney, and union rep in the room with them..
its prudent to lawyer up, in the event of any shooting.

so my carry gun is stock, with a light.

Huh, the replies here are interesting. I don't know much about Mas, but I thought he was generally thought of in rather high regard in the firearms community. Like someone else wrote, learn something new every day.

His made up example in this interview re: GSR was something like this:
Scumbag attacks you and you shoot him at close range - it doesn't have to be in your home where the statutes above might not apply. Say it's in a parking garage at a mall. In court the scumbag claims that he was actually running away and you went after him. GSR could be used to prove how close he really was. But the defense says that "he made his own evidence....it cannot be considered!" garbage and the GSR evidence can't be used because who knows what load you actually used? They can't just take your word for it. A factory load can more easily be identified and the range, etc. that you shot him more provable.

And I realize that you may wind up in civil court no matter what. I just thought that this was yet one more thing us law abiding gun owners should keep in mind to avoid having our asses land in jail for defending ourselves. One less thing for the scumbags to use against us.

Wonder which state will mandate chp holders will need a camera too......

It's good to know the possibilities of what the legal bullshit you'll encounter after an incident so you won't be caught off guard.
That said, don't let it cripple you. Don't let the fear of a court mess dictate how effectively you'll allow yourself to defend you and yours.
Mossad Ayoob is an idiot for this. I think he's on top of things on the legal side, but that he lets it become more than it should. I generally roll my eyes when I see/hear/read anything from him.