I stopped reading it after the cowboy refernace.
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I stopped reading it after the cowboy refernace.
The good old days........[Flower]
http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/a...4iy7qc7vq7.jpg
Female tats. Yuck! Nice rifle, though.
Attachment 61675
I just got back from Israel yesterday. I've been there for 6 weeks living in Jerusalem, for work, about 10 minutes from Old City and 5 minutes from one of the many Palestinian borders around Jerusalem. I took this picture at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo 4 weeks ago on the last day of Sukkot, which happened to be a day or two before shit really started getting crazy.
I believe in stuff, but am not religious. I have strong political opinions, but do not claim a party. I've worked for Jewish families. I grew up with a few Arab-American families, along with tons of other types of people. Whatever comments came/come from this can not possibly offend me. I'm just writing because I was literally just there, and I can say there are guns everywhere, and guns are about the only thing in that country that do not cross the religious lines and rules.
I took this picture because I thought, "Oh cool, open carry at the zoo." But if I took out my phone to snap a photo of every gun I saw I would first of all look like an asshole tourist, but also wouldn't have had time for anything else- like walking or driving.
In Jerusalem when you go to the mall (the "mall" is one of my least favorite places, but there it IS your option for groceries, electronics, clothing, etc all in one place) your car is stopped and peered into by and Israeli guard who may or may not check the interior and your trunk. You then park and walk to entrance where you hand over your phone/purse/all items to armed security guard and proceed through metal detector... in pursuit of groceries. Checkpoints along Palestinian border require you to slow vehicle so that armed guards can racially profile you real quick, no big deal. Everyone in the country must carry proper documents at all times to prove who you are and your right (?) to be there. At least a dozen times I literally heard the phrase "papers, please" as I watched military/security personnel approach civilians for proof.
I don't know and didn't look up the (locals) procedure to carry, I just know there was a LOT of open carry- handguns and AR's mostly, both military-issue and custom... at the zoo, the park, on the bus, in the mall, on the outdoor malls, in line for ice cream, at the postal/Western Union office. And I'm told there was tons of concealment, too- that even though the Observant/Orthodox Jews are not required to serve the 2 year military term that the rest of Israeli's are, the men are very likely to be carrying personal protection.
What was very interesting to me, that I did not like, was the lax way the AR's were carried. Like the gal pictured above, most of the AR's I saw in public were slung behind the body, with magazine in. I feel like that's maybe not the best idea when riding an escalator, or nonchalantly standing in line for ice cream, or smoking a cigarette and chatting to a buddy. Anyone with any experience with an AR (which would be EVERYone in Israel) could put a hand or two on that thing and boom! I did not mind at all that folks were toting around their AR's- but when they had their cell phone in one hand and cigarette in the other, or had both hands digging in their wallets, never making eye contact with those around/behind them, no control over their loaded weapon (chambered round or not) that really creates a potentially unsafe scene, you know? Maybe it was more annoying because I was told on several occasions that a lot of the Palestinian attacks on Israeli soldiers were 18 & 19 year old kids who were stabbing with screwdrivers in an attempt to get the soldiers' guns, to do some real damage. So people walking around with AR's yet lacking any situational awareness are "all around me" did get a little annoying.
The situation in Israel really is worse than usual, even though it's just now reaching the BBC & CNN four weeks later. I read a lot of articles while there, one in which the mayor of Jerusalem invited those with permits to start carrying daily and asked those who don't have a permit to go get one and get a gun. He said he carries his Glock every day and said that an armed community is a safer community. I had to leave Jerusalem twice due to strikes and protests and announcements on the loudspeakers warning everyone to "stay inside". It was weird. And it really, really, really sucked being unarmed.
Point is: if I lived there I'd carry everywhere I could. The articles, stories, and reporters that compare the States to Israel as far as gun control are ridiculous. The Holy Land is crazy and everyone who believes that land belongs to them has lived in a world of fear, deep seated hate, resentment, and constant retaliation for thousands of years. I really hate to say it because overall I am a very positive person, but honestly that hate will continue. Everyone already has guns, and just like in the States if someone wants a gun they will find one. They may or may not be trained on safety and proper use, they may or may not have good intentions. They may or may not have had a background check or a recent psych evaluation. And if they can't find a gun yet intend to cause harm, they will find a knife, screwdriver, or rocks... just like anyone else on the planet would.
Good observations and thanks for relaying the information to us.
How are people carrying in the mall if you have to turn out your pockets and walk through metal detectors? Is that just to get through the detector, then they give you your gun back?
Probably not, but the threat from our southern border is real. Mexican citizenry are not our enemy, but their country's organized crime and corrupt government definitely are.Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
If any of you have time, read the works of Charles Bowden (who recently passed). Our fight for our southern border may not be religious in nature, but it will be just as fierce as any religious conflict in the near future.
Revenues for drug trafficking in Mexico has exceeded revenues for oil over the last 3 years. Mexico's entire economy is dependent on trafficking now. And those running the show will press and fight to maintain that.
I believe that we'll be facing the same security issues as Israel in the coming years. I hope that isn't the case, but border states (New Mexico for example) are quickly rising in their murder rate and violent crime per capita.
I wouldn't say that it is exactly fair to compare our border issues to Israel's, but I believe it is going to get bad before it gets good. Money is every bit as powerful of a god as Allah.
There are number of different "permits" you can have that allow you to bring your weapon through security. Anyone on active military duty can be armed (assuming they're a normally armed combat soldier. No office workers, etc). Off duty cops of course. And civilians with a CCW permit as well. At any of these security checkpoints (bus stations, malls, fancy restaurants, public buildings, etc) if you have a weapons permit you're generally exempt from being searched and you can go right through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
This is a bit of a cultural thing. Military commanders are constantly berating recruits to have better control of their weapons in public. But it's "cool" to have to your rifle slung over your shoulder. Also, keep in mind, that anyone carrying around an M4 (or Tavor these days) is literally married to that gun for 2-3 years. It goes with you everywhere. On base, off base, to the bathroom, out to dinner, etc. So by the time you're 4 weeks out of Basic, it's become a burden. I'm not excusing the behavior, just explaining it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Also, most important... walking around the streets of Jerusalem, you can safely be in condition white and blissfully unaware. There is very little street crime in Israel. There are some rough neighborhoods here and there, but otherwise it's quite safe. The Israeli mentality for carrying is to defend against terrorism, not a simple mugging. Using your issued weapon to defend against a mugging could actually land you in deep shite.
So for all those reasons, many soldiers tend to just sling their guns over their back and forget about it. It's more common in the more "pedestrian" units. As soon as you start moving up to anything approaching SOF (Paratroopers, Seals, lots of other units with Hebrew names) you'll see model weapon control everywhere they go. The girl pictured above is probably a base guard who's never been in actual combat.