Round Three CMP 1911 Sale

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Originally Posted by def90

Where an you get an actual USGI 1911 for less? WW2 made Ithacas sell north of $2k on Gunbroker.

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OK. You missed the point. What is the intent of the CMP? CMP was not created to sell at high market prices to collectors of US History in an effort to gather profit. I dont disagree with your point about USGI history. But CMP was established to put used govt surplus into the hands of citizens to encourage shooting training, generally raising the marksmanship of the citizenry. From the (supposed to be) CMP point of view, these weapons are simply used govt surplus to be distributed at appropriate used weapon market value (not collector piece), or relatively close to that. The CMP keeps raising the bar to obtain a weapon and raising the price. They have lost the path.

Didn't take long for the haters to show up. Never does. There's always somebody who feels the need to rain on the parade any time CMP sales come up for discussion.

If you don't want one, fine. Don't submit your application. They're not for everyone and I can understand and respect that. But why do so many of you feel the need to diminish a great program? And I wish those of you who know where to find a serviceable, genuine USGI issue 1911 with basic provenance, Colt or otherwise, for under $1000 would let me know. Seriously...I'd love to know. Go ahead...I'll gladly wait.

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Originally Posted by clodhopper

From the CMP point of view, these weapons are simply used govt surplus to be distributed at appropriate used weapon value, or relatively close to that. The CMP keeps raising the bar to obtain a weapon and raising the price. They have lost the path.

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No...you missed the point and CMP hasn't "lost the path"...whatever that means.

If these were being distributed at their "appropriate value" they'd be offered at $2000 or more. I'd hardly call the cost of these 1911s "out of control" when they're generally about half of what similar guns sell for on the open market. The CMP was required to go to great expense to provide these guns to the public. Where do you think the "profits" from CMP gun sales go? It's not like they go into someone's pocket. The profits from CMP sales (of all their products...not just 1911s) go towards funding training and marksmanship events and facilities around the country. Money that isn't spent on those programs and associated costs goes into an endowment that will fund the program into the future once there are no longer surplus guns to sell.

For the life of me I can't understand how, when the US government actually creates a worthwhile program, some of you can nothing but bitch about it.

FFS...some of you people can't see the forest for the trees.

BTW...

For anyone interested in submitting a packet, the GCA (Garand Collectors Assoc) is an easy and inexpensive CMP-affiliated club to join. I think it's only $25 to join.

WEAPONS OF WAR ON OUR STREETS!!!!

As an investment, do these increase in value, as opposed to a new firearm which tends to hold its value?

I only see a couple on Gunbroker and they are around $1300.

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Originally Posted by clodhopper

OK. You missed the point. What is the intent of the CMP? CMP was not created to sell at high market prices to collectors of US History in an effort to gather profit. I dont disagree with your point about USGI history. But CMP was established to put used govt surplus into the hands of citizens to encourage shooting training, generally raising the marksmanship of the citizenry. From the (supposed to be) CMP point of view, these weapons are simply used govt surplus to be distributed at appropriate used weapon market value (not collector piece), or relatively close to that. The CMP keeps raising the bar to obtain a weapon and raising the price. They have lost the path.

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Fair market value would be closer to $2k and above.

The 1911's weren't ever a part of CMP's charter, they only got these due to a couple congressmen that got the 1911 transfer shoved in to another bill, they were going to be scrapped otherwise, that is why they have the completely separate sales and entry system from the Garands. The money they will raise from these will go to fund more Garand imports if and when they ever become available.

The only gripe I have with the CMP is that they should have gotten rid of the 8 or whatever rifles a year a long time ago as it has become quite obvious that many people are using the CMP in order to make a quick $ flipping them. Even with the current shortage they are still letting guys walk in to the stores and buy multiple rifles a day. There are guys out there that have themselves, their wife and all their kids on their account and are getting dozens of rifles a year in which they flip on Gunbroker at double the price that CMP sold them for.

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

As an investment, do these increase in value, as opposed to a new firearm which tends to hold its value?

I only see a couple on Gunbroker and they are around $1300.

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I would imagine that a true USGI 1911 is going to continue to increase in value while your run of the mill 1911 may or may not retain it's original value. How much it goes up in value will be determined by what it is that you receive, some are rarer than others.

Here's one that currently at $3200.. the guy just added some cheap surplus accessories. The guy only paid $1k for it unless he bought it through one of the collectors auctions the CMP has on some of the rarest models.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/946338182

You'll have to watch this one to see where it ends up at. No reserve penny start auctions tend to end up going for big $$ at the very end of the auction period:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/946241084

Agree with def90. Real, unmolested (that doesn't mean arsenal rebuilt), USGI pistols have historically continued to increase in value. Like anything else there are ups and downs. But when you consider the NRA sold some of these guns in the early 60s for $17 selling for $3000 these days would be a pretty good deal. $20 in 1960 would be worth $200 today just based on inflation. That same $20 put into the stock market in 1960, NOT adjusted for inflation, would be worth $1180 ($116 adjusted for inflation). I'm just posted these amounts for information...not that it means anything for the future.

I've heard the CMP is expecting some more M1 rifles some time this year. I hope so. I have a Correct Grade HRA I was able to buy for $950 several years ago. It's not rebuilt and it appears to be unissued. It's Korean War vintage but that's OK with me. I'd like to pick up another one that would just be shooter grade. Right now I think they only have Rack Grade, which would be fine just to shoot, but I'd like something just a little nicer.

CMP also had to build storage facilities just for the 1911s they received in order to comply with the congressional requirements. That's not cheap.

I paid $1050 for my Colt thru CMP. There's no doubt in my mind I could sell that gun for $2k today if I were so inclined.

M1 Collector's Club = $14/year
https://m1collectorsclub.com/join-today

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Didn't take long for the haters to show up. Never does. There's always somebody who feels the need to rain on the parade any time CMP sales come up for discussion.

If you don't want one, fine. Don't submit your application. They're not for everyone and I can understand and respect that. But why do so many of you feel the need to diminish a great program? And I wish those of you who know where to find a serviceable, genuine USGI issue 1911 with basic provenance, Colt or otherwise, for under $1000 would let me know. Seriously...I'd love to know. Go ahead...I'll gladly wait.

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Yeah, I asked the wrong question to a group that only see one side of a situation. Not raining on anyone's parade. I asked a question and immediately beat over the head with the same concept (that somehow I dont "understand") that I was specifically questioning. So, I guess that makes me the "old man shouting at the sky". :rolleyes

So, no, I dont want one at that price. And no, I will not be submitting an application. I get it, you are enamored with the historic relevance of a genuine USGI piece. If you are into that, great. I stand by my assertion that the CMP was not created to sell collectors pieces at collector prices.

I am one of those guys on the other end of things. It is a mechanical device to sling a chunk of lead downrange. USGI? Ok, cool I guess, but I am still going to use it just like a Rock Island crapper bought at a gun shop. I am not one to hide stuff in a safe hoping I chose the investment right. And not everyone holds the same beliefs/habits that I do. That is fine in my eyes. Maybe very few or nobody else around here sees it like I do.


God forbid anyone question some aspect of the firearm industry around here to initiate discussion. Sheesh.