Minnesota government shutdown begins after talks fail.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

Who in the fuck decided "deficit spending" was OK?

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George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

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Glad to see some people paid attention in Civics.

H.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Hoosier, that graph is all fine and dandy. It doesn't change the fact that we're in this mess due to overspending on the part of our elected officials.

We're not 14 trillion dollars in debt because people made money in the stock market.

It's like me spending way more money than I should and then writing checks on your account to pay my bills.

There is absolutely no rational justification for raising taxes on anyone.

Politicians need to STOP spending money we don't have.

And companies send their jobs overseas because the business environment in this country is too hostile with the unnecessary regulation and high tax rates. I don't like it but I sure as hell don't blame them

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I agree. Which means lots of services are going to be cut. Anyone in the Military can expect to get a smaller paycheck and reduced services. Retirement age will be raised. Secondary taxes will be raised (state, county, vehicle fees, property tax, etc).

They can blame high taxes but what they mean is high wages. It's cheaper to ship it than build it local, the job will move to where the wages are cheapest. This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.

I really, sincerely wish the GOP did even half of what they promised. Hell, I wish the Dems did even half of what they promised.
[Bang]

H.

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Originally Posted by Hoosier

Glad to see some people paid attention in Civics.

H.

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They don't teach any of that in Civics. SA Friday is obviously just well read. [Flower]

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Originally Posted by Anton

They don't teach any of that in Civics. SA Friday is obviously just well read. [Flower]

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THIS!

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

George Washington did at the urging of Alexander Hamilton. The Federal Government took all states outstanding debts at the end of the Revolution War and incurred a deficit to develop an international credit rating. Then the Federal government took loans out with various countries to use in development. Jefferson was adamantly against this plan, but Washington was essentially for developing a strong Federally centric Government. Hamilton also established the first Federal banking system and bank at the same time this was all happening.

So, the short answer to your question is: blame Alexander Hamilton.

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Irony here, I'm reading his biography and the author stated that people would blame him for the current state of the banking system. ROFL.

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Originally Posted by Hoosier

I agree. Which means lots of services are going to be cut. Anyone in the Military can expect to get a smaller paycheck and reduced services. Retirement age will be raised. Secondary taxes will be raised (state, county, vehicle fees, property tax, etc).

They can blame high taxes but what they mean is high wages. It's cheaper to ship it than build it local, the job will move to where the wages are cheapest. This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.

I really, sincerely wish the GOP did even half of what they promised. Hell, I wish the Dems did even half of what they promised.
[Bang]

H.

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Not so sure I agree with that. I think taxes are more the reason. Isn't that why so many foreign auto companies have moved factories over here? To avoid high import tariffs.

Sure, I think a lot of domestic companies have been ruined by ridiculous union contracts but I still think when a company has to pay the 2nd highest(?) corporate tax rates in the world then they're obviously going to start looking for other places more friendly to business.

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Originally Posted by Hoosier

a This is why I'm pro total immigration. Might as well have people working in the US for cheap, at least they're working in the US instead of China.


H.

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But immigration is not cheap, it's expensive, very expensive. You seem opposed to outsourcing of jobs yet, but immigration illegal and legal is insourcing of jobs, yet Americans pay the overhead for the insourcing and the rich reap the benefits.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Not so sure I agree with that. I think taxes are more the reason. Isn't that why so many foreign auto companies have moved factories over here? To avoid high import tariffs.

Sure, I think a lot of domestic companies have been ruined by ridiculous union contracts but I still think when a company has to pay the 2nd highest(?) corporate tax rates in the world then they're obviously going to start looking for other places more friendly to business.

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+1, unions (public and private), add environmental laws, the threat of nationalized health care and health care costs. Add the fact there is no incentive for Americans to get of their asses and find a job because of the social programs are too lucrative to name a few!

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Originally Posted by hkOrion

Irony here, I'm reading his biography and the author stated that people would blame him for the current state of the banking system. ROFL.

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Ya, it's obviously more complicated than that. Jeffson actually wiped out the entire deficit during his time in office. His predecessors then reinitiated deficit spending. I think one can make a very solid case that without the the initiial thredsetting by Hamilton to incur and carry a national deficit, the Jefferson led influences of a balanced budget would have been more prominent and dominated current national finance philosophies.

Any creation period is an unstable time. Our countries was no different. Even after more than 200 years, we seem to still be divided in what theologies should dominate.