American Drug War Doc.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I hate that we probably will never convince OneGuy that walking around in a circle is not a good way to get from point A to Point B (IE: The drug war) and that maybe an alternative is a good call right now.

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Nope, you are right. You will never convince me that legalization is the way to go in this country. Seen and dealth with too much aftermath of the drug addicted to be convinced that legalization is best. Even your precious Nederlands are rethinking their position.

Here is a link. It is to the DEA, which I know is a tad biased, but no different than your pro-drug references.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/09so.htm

I'll add one other item and be done with this. You mention we should work on education and rehabilitation instead of prosecution. Who is going to pay for that education and rehabilitation? The taxpayer? I thought you were a conservative.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Who is going to pay for that education and rehabilitation? The taxpayer? I thought you were a conservative.

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Not to side one way or the other on legalization, but what is cheaper? Incarceration or rehabilitation?

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Frankly, all drugs are about the same in price as they have been for about 20 years now

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With all due respect, you are mistaken on that. Cocaine is 1/4th to 1/5th the price it was in the 70's-80's

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

The argument that "it is natural"

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My problem is people would be forced to Pfizer/Merck/Etc garbage from massive companies that would just as soon poison you and lie about it. These companies don't want you to be able to grow you own drugs, that's their business and they will throw you in jail if you try to compete.

We should try something different, obviously the war on drugs is a failure of biblical proportions...

I agree that the war on drugs is a waste.

The government should subsidize the deadliest and easiest-to-overdose drugs.

The problem will take care of itself.

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Originally Posted by jhood001

Not to side one way or the other on legalization, but what is cheaper? Incarceration or rehabilitation?

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Again, as stated earlier, there isn't anyone in the Colorado penal system there for a simple possession conviction. The vast majority of all convicted of simple possession get probation and rehabilitation. So we already have rehabiliation working on those people as well as those who self identify that they have a problem and get help. Most of these two are on their own dime, although there are governement programs to assist in the payment if necessary.

For legalization, it has been theorized that you will have a large increase of users and abusers, those unintentionally addicted, and mostly the younger generations. They will then require assistance in getting off it and depending upon the type of drug, the assistance may be counseling or hospitalization. Since most drug abusers do not have assets or funds, the money to pay for the care would be similar in nature to those who utilize emergency rooms without insurance; cash funded, don't pay the hospital bill or medicaid.

So simple answer....? I haven't a clue. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

With all due respect, you are mistaken on that. Cocaine is 1/4th to 1/5th the price it was in the 70's-80's
My problem is people would be forced to Pfizer/Merck/Etc garbage from massive companies that would just as soon poison you and lie about it. These companies don't want you to be able to grow you own drugs, that's their business and they will throw you in jail if you try to compete.

We should try something different, obviously the war on drugs is a failure of biblical proportions...

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I can't say from experience what the price of cocaine was in the 70-80's. I can only say from the last 20 years, which is the time I've been a cop and have worked narcotics and that price has remained pretty steady those two decades.

I can't say what would be better or worse. If we are talking legitimate medicine for a legitimate medical condition like nausea from cancer, then I wouldn't have an issue of someone using marijuana, if they didn't want to use Marinol. However, given the vast majority of MMJ cards are for "chronic pain", I'm not an advocate of that as it is being used as a back door for legalization.

War on Drugs...win or lose...I don't know. It hasn't gotten any easier these past two decades. I do know the flow of drugs to the U.S. has continually increased due to increased demand, increased population and a possibly...a decreased moral aptitude. But, with most social issues, a liberal approach has flowed over us and we all who refuse to budge as the wave is coming are considered uninformed, unwilling to budge, racist, etc.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

So simple answer....? I haven't a clue. What do you think?

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I'm not sure myself.

I would like to see the amount of time spent by LEOs and the court system on possession cases eliminated if it was at all possible. While I understand what you're saying in regards to nobody serving time for simple possession, I'm assuming that those people are still booked and ran through the system for all but the most minor offenses. And even in the most minor offenses, they're still given a ticket that requires follow-up by the legal system are they not?

I won't pretend for a second that I know the solution to our countries drug issues, but I do believe in personal freedoms. If that freedom includes someone's right to fuck their life up, so be it.

The dredges of society seem to maintain their numbers whether there is a war on drugs or not.

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Originally Posted by jhood001

I'm not sure myself.

I would like to see the amount of time spent by LEOs and the court system on possession cases eliminated if it was at all possible. While I understand what you're saying in regards to nobody serving time for simple possession, I'm assuming that those people are still booked and ran through the system for all but the most minor offenses. And even in the most minor offenses, they're still given a ticket that requires follow-up by the legal system are they not?

I won't pretend for a second that I know the solution to our countries drug issues, but I do believe in personal freedoms. If that freedom includes someone's right to fuck their life up, so be it.

The dredges of society seem to maintain their numbers whether there is a war on drugs or not.

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Yes, you are correct that they are still arrested, booked and processed through the court. Some are misdemeanors, some are felonies. The exception being marijuana possession less than 2 ounces, which is a citation with a $100 fine attached and is classified as a petty offense.

The dregs could be attributed to a number of things, but I agree with your assessment.

The only issue I have about the personal freedom argument is, I just know from extensive experience that people who live that lifestyle, live for drugs, don't usually have money as they don't usually have a steady, legitimate job. Because of that lack of income to buy their favorite party treat, they tend to violate other's personal freedoms, their personal property, in some cases, their lives to steal your property, your identity, your checking or credit cards in order to fund their habits. That is my major concern/issue with the whole argument of legalization.

The issue I have with this whole debate is the presumption that the general populace cannot be trusted with a choice. The idea that peoples choices need to be regulated is really unfortunate. Years of people trusting the govt. to decide what is good and safe for them has brought us to where we are now.

If you really need the govt. to tell you that doing meth is a bad idea, perhaps it is O.K. if you remove yourself from society through excess use. Problem solves itself.

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Originally Posted by THe Yetti

The issue I have with this whole debate is the presumption that the general populace cannot be trusted with a choice. The idea that peoples choices need to be regulated is really unfortunate. Years of people trusting the govt. to decide what is good and safe for them has brought us to where we are now.

If you really need the govt. to tell you that doing meth is a bad idea, perhaps it is O.K. if you remove yourself from society through excess use. Problem solves itself.

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Great post..