US launches immigration reform

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

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This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

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Marx tried to scare people into being against immigration based on the idea that there are only a finite number of jobs. Thus, anybody that immigrated would take a job away from somebody else. This isn't true, because if you have more people, those people would require services (more food, more houses, etc) and new job opportunities are created.

Marx was also against emmigration, and wanted to confiscate all property from anybody that wanted to leave (kind of like how NY wants to tax people that move out of the state).

ETA: I guess the main fallacy is that, like money, the number of jobs is not finite. Money and jobs can both be created without taking away from somebody else.

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

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If you are coming from the business side of the economy then the larger the workforce the better. More candidates for jobs means you can be more selective and get someone with the skills you really need/want, not just a body to fill a chair. This also can drive up wages because companies need to be competitive in pay in order to attract the best candidates.

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally." [Bang]

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+1 preach it Ronin! [Beer]

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Originally Posted by kanekutter05

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

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Just what jobs to you think these folks going to be getting?

I bet they just collect the fee of $465 then stamp "DENIED"...next!

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Originally Posted by kanekutter05

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

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Right, immigration needs to flucuate with the economy. If you have a huge influx of people during a recession (like right now), it's only going to make things worse.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

Just what jobs to you think these folks going to be getting?

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Most likely low paying, low skilled jobs where employers can pay them under the table, possibly pay them less than what their labor is actually worth, and not have to pay taxes.

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? .

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Be damned if I'm taking a salary cut!


I'm all for simplifying the immigration process, as long as you're here to pay taxes etc. But we make it so easy for illegals to come and stay here and bleed the economy dry.

Being a brick mason I could tell you how I'm affected by illegal immigration.[Rant1]

I'm told wages have sky rocketed in Arizona for masons. I wonder why? [Bang]

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Originally Posted by CapLock

Being a brick mason I could tell you how I'm affected by illegal immigration.[Rant1]

I'm told wages have sky rocketed in Arizona for masons. I wonder why? [Bang]

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You're just mad because you got flipped off today [Tooth]

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

You're just mad because you got flipped off today [Tooth]

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Too soon! [ROFL1]