US launches immigration reform

[Pancho Villa]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

You want to complain about the govt messing with the economy, that's great, I'm right there with you. If you then want the govt to go around...messing with the economy, by trying to keep the US out of the international labor market, and expect that to work out hunky dory? Please.

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? That'll work great!

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.

[Ronin13]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally."

[Sharpienads]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

You want to complain about the govt messing with the economy, that's great, I'm right there with you. If you then want the govt to go around...messing with the economy, by trying to keep the US out of the international labor market, and expect that to work out hunky dory? Please.

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? That'll work great!

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally."

You guys are both right, IMO. You shouldn't be afraid of more people (workers), and in a free market, more workers is a good thing. But that is with all else being equal, which all other things definitely are not equal. There's other factors at play besides just an influx of people.

[Sharpienads]

Whoever wrote that article spelled "program" and "favoring" wrong.

[Sharpienads]

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.

lol, I know it's just a typo, but you might be on to something here... Inventing an incentive = inventivizing! Brilliant!

[Teufelhund]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

[Sharpienads]

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

Marx tried to scare people into being against immigration based on the idea that there are only a finite number of jobs. Thus, anybody that immigrated would take a job away from somebody else. This isn't true, because if you have more people, those people would require services (more food, more houses, etc) and new job opportunities are created.

Marx was also against emmigration, and wanted to confiscate all property from anybody that wanted to leave (kind of like how NY wants to tax people that move out of the state).

ETA: I guess the main fallacy is that, like money, the number of jobs is not finite. Money and jobs can both be created without taking away from somebody else.

[kanekutter05]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

If you are coming from the business side of the economy then the larger the workforce the better. More candidates for jobs means you can be more selective and get someone with the skills you really need/want, not just a body to fill a chair. This also can drive up wages because companies need to be competitive in pay in order to attract the best candidates.

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally."

+1 preach it Ronin!

[Rucker61]

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

Just what jobs to you think these folks going to be getting?

[BushMasterBoy]

I bet they just collect the fee of $465 then stamp "DENIED"...next!