How much damage from Obamacare?

I wish you WERE overreacting but ...

- what happens when a sizable chunk of Americans that are still working go from 40+ hours/week to 29 hours/week?
- what happens when companies intentionally cap their full time employees at 49?
- what happens when the Treasury is no longer able to find people willing to lend the US money at near-zero rates?
- what happens when the Fed HAS to raise interest rates in order to get people to loan us money?
- what happens when American paper is so devalued that even the Chinese won't loan us money?
- what happens when investors stop investing, choosing instead to put their cash into safe holding or precious metals?
- what happens when the bill comes due?

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

sizable chunk of Americans that are still working go from 40+ hours/week to 29 hours/week?

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I'm expecting a lot of this. It will be cheaper to have to part workers instead of one full time.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

I wish you WERE overreacting but ...

- what happens when a sizable chunk of Americans that are still working go from 40+ hours/week to 29 hours/week?
- what happens when companies intentionally cap their full time employees at 49?
- what happens when the Treasury is no longer able to find people willing to lend the US money at near-zero rates?
- what happens when the Fed HAS to raise interest rates in order to get people to loan us money?
- what happens when American paper is so devalued that even the Chinese won't loan us money?
- what happens when investors stop investing, choosing instead to put their cash into safe holding or precious metals?
- what happens when the bill comes due?

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In addition to these terrific points, take our sources of power for example. Namely, fossil fuels. The oil, natural gas, and coal companies are going to increase their prices due to their increased costs, creating the self perpetuating, and ever increasing cycle of inflation...Not only do your examples add to the trouble of inflation, but inflation adds to the trouble of your examples. The financial future of our country is as bleak as it's ever been.

Over the years we have been seeing a 5%-7% increase in our annual healthcare premiums for the plan provided through my wife's employer; roughly an additional $15-$20 per check every two weeks per year increase. Not fun, but manageable.

However, after the initial implementation of Obamacare, upon the next renewal of our insurance in 2011, our premiums increased $57 per paycheck. Then in 2012 another $32 per paycheck.

It's going to get worse. Obama and his minions are a bunch of lying Marxists that are determined to destroy our nation and getting control of the healthcare system is the primary means.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

I wish you WERE overreacting but ...

- what happens when a sizable chunk of Americans that are still working go from 40+ hours/week to 29 hours/week? We walk to our 2nd job
- what happens when companies intentionally cap their full time employees at 49? Lawsuits
- what happens when the Treasury is no longer able to find people willing to lend the US money at near-zero rates? Hey, look at all the 401K money sitting there on Wall Street doing nothing
- what happens when the Fed HAS to raise interest rates in order to get people to loan us money? Car and home sales plummet
- what happens when American paper is so devalued that even the Chinese won't loan us money? We (.gov) can do some real good with all that 401K money
- what happens when investors stop investing, choosing instead to put their cash into safe holding or precious metals? Read up on executive order 6102 - Hoarding gold
- what happens when the bill comes due? The well know substance will hit the electrical convenience

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Originally Posted by Sawin

In addition to these terrific points, take our sources of power for example. Namely, fossil fuels. The oil, natural gas, and coal companies are going to increase their prices due to their increased costs, creating the self perpetuating, and ever increasing cycle of inflation...Not only do your examples add to the trouble of inflation, but inflation adds to the trouble of your examples. The financial future of our country is as bleak as it's ever been.

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Both of you are RIGHT ON POINT. I added some comments in BLUE

"Lawsuits" is not a response to the point about companies intentionally limited / structuring themselves to avoid the 50 employee limit. Its not illegal to do so.

Obamacare is already holding down employment and it will continue to do so. Democrats do not care.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

"Lawsuits" is not a response to the point about companies intentionally limited / structuring themselves to avoid the 50 employee limit. Its not illegal to do so.

Obamacare is already holding down employment and it will continue to do so. Democrats do not care.

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You're right, I misunderstood the statement. 50 does not represent age, 50 represents the number of employees.

Your second comment is on target too, small business is contracting not expanding so the count of 50 employees is irrelevant for the most part.

Meanwhile, the Community College of Allegheny PA shows the future, cutting 400 adjunct instructors and support staff to less than 30 hrs weekly to avoid being forced to pay for the insurance.

Democrats really do hate working people.

Interesting on a number of things people didnt think about. Union workers who get paid healthcare, costs the company a pile of money. Guess whats cheaper for the company, $2k annual fine per employee. Walla, more people on the gov program.

From a biz standpoint, its very easy to limit employees to part time only, and hire more people. And with how you can structure companies, very easy to make minimal changes on smaller businesses, and stay under the 50 limit as well. Many companies do this already to limit liability, and make more work or a lawyer. Example, setup a manufacturing company, retail, and design. Design only does work that will be made by the manufacturing company, which only manufacturers for the retail company. Completely legal, and now you have 150 limit. Add in some divisions on those, and you can very easily make that number double, triple and more. With nothing more than a little paperwork with your CPA.

Other answers, think Carter interest rates.

Ive come to the realization, that paying off the national debt is never going to happen, just a revolving door. If I recall right, $45 million in 1781. Though was actually paid off in 1835, started again in 1836.

The Chinese stopped loaning, at least for while, maybe still, a couple years ago.

What happens when no one will loan, you already answered, raise the interest rate.

Investors, big money guys, will make money whatever way they can, and will do. Foreign markets, precious metals, etc. Someone is always moving up, and someone else down, just got to play the cards right and you win!

As for obonzo care. Knowing someone on it for a couple years, premium has nearly doubled in the last couple years. And costs more than private insurance would if they were insurable, about double actually. Odd that the subsidized costs the most. And while the program cannot refuse, they can just drag feet and not accept. Watched this happen as well, going on 2+ years now. As for treatments, "you dont need that test" "I dont think that's necassary" And getting appointments, goes on waiting period for a bit too. You want care, and things done now, pay out of pocket. FWIW, many canadians carry supplemental health insurance on top of their gov health care coverage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...039087636.html

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt


Hiding the government's liabilities from the public makes it seem that we can tax our way out of mounting deficits. We can't.

Some highlights:

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For years, the government has gotten by without having to produce the kind of financial statements that are required of most significant for-profit and nonprofit enterprises. The U.S. Treasury "balance sheet" does list liabilities such as Treasury debt issued to the public, federal employee pensions, and post-retirement health benefits. But it does not include the unfunded liabilities of Medicare, Social Security and other outsized and very real obligations.

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The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees' future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP. For the year ending Dec. 31, 2011, the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion.

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As of the most recent Trustees' report in April, the net present value of the unfunded liability of Medicare was $42.8 trillion. The comparable balance sheet liability for Social Security is $20.5 trillion.

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When combined with funding the general cash deficits, these multitrillion-dollar Treasury operations will dominate the capital markets in the years ahead, particularly given China's de-emphasis of new investment in U.S. Treasurys in favor of increasing foreign direct investment, and Japan's and Europe's own sovereign-debt challenges.

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to collect enough tax revenue just to avoid going deeper into debt would require over $8 trillion in tax collections annually. That is the total of the average annual accrued liabilities of just the two largest entitlement programs, plus the annual cash deficit.

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I was concerned about Weimar Republic-level deflation before but the size of these numbers is just staggering -- and my criticism is inherently non-partisan since Bush the Younger added to this overwhelming deficit with the Medicare Part D giveaways. Time to dig out some history books and see what strategies preserved capital during that era.