I can't be the "protector" of my family 24/7 365, but if we are all at home and a shitty situation comes knocking on my door, I'm sticking to my original statement "NOBODY'S life is more important than my families".Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Very important word in that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
It's all armchair quarterbacking here folks. You would like to think you know what you would do in this situation, but as always there are extenuating circumstances. Some folks here (like yourself) saying "I'd do it and you should too" might catch some minor detail that throws up a flag and you're not going to open the door for the pope himself let alone this chick. And on the other hand, those saying "No way" might in the moment not even hesitate to open the door and help.
Who knows, it could be a set up and you don't open the door, bad guys shoot through the door kill you/wife/child/dog/house plant. You might open the door, it's not a set up, but you get sued in civil court for XYZ and a dumbass jury awards the girl Umpteen Bajillion dollars for your "act of kindness".
If, could, would, should, might...all armchair quarterbacking folks.
Amen. I don't know why that is such a hard thing for some folks to wrap their heads around. If feeling this way makes me a pussy/asshole/selfish person...well then I guess I have a few new adjectives to describe myself by on the next job application I fill out.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
absolutely rightQuote:
Originally Posted by PugnacAutMortem
Awoken at 3am by screaming.. Going to work.. totally different scenarioQuote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
There is always going to be risk, but you can minimize your risk by making smart decisions.
I just wonder how many folks saying they'd open the door and calling people pussys actually have kids, especially young ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugnacAutMortem
Look, if you would have asked me the same question 11 months ago, maybe my answer would have been different. A lot has changed for me since then, and now I'm not only concerned with keeping my family safe, I'm also concerned with not getting into a shit storm that turns my life into something similar to George Zimmerman (yes, me NOT being in prison, and taking care of my family is still more important than your family).
What if the girl was screaming, and you could actually see the guy shuffling up your driveway for her, and he had a bloody hook for a hand?
Does he have an eye patch, a wooden leg and a parrot?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Three words and all her problems are solved: "SWEEP THE LEG!!!!!!!"
Is it an evil black hook?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Well I was trying to change the situation slightly where you know it's not a scam, but you also know for sure there's danger if you open the door, and you also know for sure she will die if you don't help. But you're putting your own family at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugnacAutMortem
i think most people would intervene, if armed. But that goes against the whole family risk line that they say they won't cross.
Yes. I was picturing the lovers lane story type murderer hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMBD2112
It depends. If it was myself or one of you guys, we'd probably let her in . . . and if it was a ruse we'd deal with it. You CANNOT expect the same reaction from a terrified retired couple in an isolated location after midnight who probably didn't even own pepperspray, let alone a handgun. Some people will not open the door to any stranger after dark, and if they are frail, elderly, and timid that is the best possible choice for them. A woman who'd just been brutalized a few minutes earlier is not going to be very articulate and will present as crazed and potentially violent. They probably couldn't understand half of what she was screaming and assumed she was on drugs. I can understand them being reluctant to open their door.
I'm not calling anyone a pussy, but I've got two young ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
Do you have kids? I'm just trying to determine if I'm the crazy one here, I mean even if I am, I won't change my stance, hook or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Yes, I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
You'd sit there 2 feet away with your gun, and let someone get murdered on your doorstep, rather than help them?
I guess I am the crazy one....Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Since we are playing what if, say I open the door, draw my weapon, and get a kaboom (since I do carry a Glock), let's also say I'm the pu$$y that many on the forum believe I may be, and captain hook is a bad a$$ wrestler like you are. What now? Hope my wife and one month old are tougher than I....
Guess she should have known how to wrestle.
Not going to stand by and not help. It's worth the cost. Lot of options. Wife backup with shotgun ect. Just because you don't open the door doesn't mean they can't force their way in. Someone who let's fear rule their life has lost. Get armed, get trained, have a plan and make a difference. I have kids and a wife. I don't see the scenario as black or white. If your not prepared might be best to stay inside. If I was armed with wife armed as backup I would be willing to offer my assistance. Thank God cops answer calls to homes that don't belong to their relatives.
How many cops answer calls to anybody's house at all with their wives and kids in the squad?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSS
Well...this is a tough one, no doubt about it there. I am confident in my ability to defend myself and my family. I would open the door and yank her inside as quickly as possible after making damn sure I could confirm there was no one else outside with her. If I was unable to veryify all my blind spots were clear, then for certain would NOT open the door. You have to realize, being a good samaritan can also make you a victim. Sad, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Me and my family are priority #1.
I guess this comes down to having a good porch light!! Well I'm calling it a nite...thanks for the lively discussion even if I do think it went south a bit here and there.
Thats the only way we know how to do it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by muddywings
You went from a woman screaming for help. TO A HOME INVASION.?? 2 Entirely different scenarios. Stay with the original issue or start a new thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Actually, it happens often enough to be a concern for folks in their homes/apartments. Here's an example after a QUICK Google search:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/01...ion-71967.html
I've trained my family members that you NEVER (day or night) open the door for ANYONE you do not personally know and trust very well. PERIOD. And, if the situation raises any red flags then I'm 10'+ inside the door with a .45 and a phone handset. If it's at night, ALL outdoor lights are immediately turned on. And they remain on throughout the remainder of the night or until the situation is completely resolved. No exceptions policy on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by muddywings
I'm not afraid of anything here but I will always be as prepared as I can be and act in the smartest & safest manner possible for my family. Keeping all of the barriers in place between my family and potential risk is the smartest move I can make for their benefit. There are some very bad people out there who will do whatever it takes to take what is mine - including my families lives. They are getting craftier and will use peoples generosity & simpathy to make them victims. Until society cleans up it's act and I feel strangers are worthy of some degree of trust, I will continue to put my safety/my families safety above the needs of people I do not know.
ETA: Also, when someone comes to my front door that wasn't invited, I'm keeping an eye on my back door too in case the situation at the front door is meant to be a distraction.
sad to say in this day and age you just never know with people. lot of scary stories have started out similar to this. as much as i want to help everyone fact is my family comes first. i don't think my wife is trained well enough even with a shotgun for me to feel secure having her stand 10-15 feet back as i open the door. she would likely freeze if something happened and a guy came running in. from a front door you really can't tell if someone is pressed up against the wall or not ready to blow through the door. it would be tough to do safely without having both you and your spouse well trained. even throwing a blanket out is risky. best thing you can probably do is call the police let the girl know you have done so and tell her to press up against the door and you will continue to watch through the window well armed. if the guy shows up and approaches her then i would have to take the risk and open the door gun pointed and tell him to back off. i couldn't sit by and watch someone harm another, risk or not, but if it appears she is in no immediate danger i don't think i could risk opening the door.
We bash LEO's on this site too often. In my humble experience there are too many citizens that are asshole enough that they do not deserve to be "protected". Especially the non tax paying asshats that do nothing but smoke meth all day... Now, as a civilian, I would check out the situation as best I can under the circumstance before I come to any strangers aid, double that when my family and home is involved. Too many sick fucks out there that should be put away but because of "budget control" ain"t...
Why are they not on as SOP anyway, or did i misread that sentence? Our outside lights are either Motion sensor (solar power) or photoelectric, Around the dwelling, on when it gets dark, the rest on for movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
I asked my wife what SHE thought we should do and this is almost her exact response - she'd back me with the 12ga and I damn well better help the girl. I told her of the responses on this thread and she thinks it's a sad commentary on what we've become as a people. Have we really let the media, Liberals, criminals, politicians, et al turn our lives into cowering in a corner? Seeing only the bad and not being willing to help our neighbors despite some risk to ourselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSS
To be fair we're older and have no children at home, two dogs and lots of guns. I don't blame anyone for making their personal choice not to render aid and don't think that makes you a pussy, I understand your position that your family comes first. I just find it sad that this is the low place we find ourselves as a Nation that you would have reason to think that way. I want my Country back.
Disclaimer: I am not now nor have ever been a wrestler.
I don't live in a rural area, so the dynamics are somewhat different. In my neighborhood, the neighbors pretty much all know each other, and they all keep an eye on each other's houses. If someone comes to my porch screaming and pounding on the door crying rape, there will be witnesses, and I will probably answer the door and render aid while exercising reasonable caution, including having the wife suitably armed and on the phone with 911. Circumstances will dictate actions, at least for me.
I'm not calling you "wrong". Its just that you need to be aware that fake "I'm in trouble" is the opening of a classic home invasion scenario. Caution.Quote:
Originally Posted by muddywings
Quote:
Originally Posted by spqrzilla
<< former leo. I'm aware but would still do it "wrong" per the general consensus here. Also I don't have kids so I found that aspect enlightening.
We use extreme caution when responding/answering the door, even if expecting visitors. You get to stand on the porch and listen to the dog bark for a minute or two while I check you out from several spots inside the house. Maybe I answer, maybe I don't.
You are assuming ALL criminals come prepared with a well thought-out plan and that they have considered several approaches and picked the best one.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalmeow
Some do.
Others don't.
There are others that decide on the spur of the moment "Hey there's a house over there. Let's go have some fun.", not knowing what they will do or how they will do it.
They sort of "make things up as they go along" with no real plan.
(Somehow a few scenes from "A Clockwork Orange" are shuffling through my memory).
If someone wanted to rob the house in the article, and it was really "that" rural, would-be robbers might just watch it for a while, determine the number of occupants, and wait until those occupants left...but that is the difference between a thought-out plan, and a spur of the moment decision.
Also, the article does not describe the occupants (unless I "missed it"). Were they young or old (80's ? ) Any other people in the house (children ? ) ? Had they had or known of anyone that had any similar situations "go bad....really bad "? Did they have any weapons ?
In my opinion, they didn't do anything really wrong...but they did not go out of their way to do anything exceptionally "right". They were sort of middle of the road ---"cautiously helpful" by calling the cops.
Many of us don't even like Craigslist customers to come to our house during the day when we are selling something, and we choose to meet them in a public place, for"safety" reasons etc.
Many forum members don't even like to meet new people at their house for "deals"...until they get to know them a bit.
So, I think we are ALL a bit cautious, to some extent.
Things have gotten to where you can't tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" sometimes.
I think we'd ALL like to help someone, providing we didn't have to risk our (and our family's ) safety with the "unknown".
I'm sure that if I heard a knock on the door and a screaming woman at midnight, I'd ALSO be cautious.
Good post!Quote:
Originally Posted by james_bond_007
I just want to make it clear, before my son came, I would have most definitely helped. That little guy has changed me a lot, and now all of my decisions are with him in mind.
With that said, I wanted to further expand on one of my previous comments. I don't trust the media, the courts or the politics of it all, to not hang me at the stakes for being a good Samaritan. I hate that the world has come to this, and I hate that it must be that way, but I'm no good to my family if I'm sitting in a prison cell. My firearms are to protect me and my loved ones, they are the only ones worth putting myself in Zimmerman's shoes.
I've seen a chick getting her ass beat in front of my door before. I opened the door with a Winchester Defender 12ga. Yea it saved her ass from being beaten a little. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have just called the cops and left it at that. It was put to me like this. Do you think this was the first time? Answer NO. Do you think it will be the last time. Answer NO. I couldn't help some dumb bitch who didn't want to help herself. Ended up having to move and I hate dealing with others drama. I wasn't wanting to be a tough guy I just acted without thinking it through.
I'm still not sure if I made the right choice or not years later. No way could I say anything about these homeowners other than they called 911 and thats all they "HAD" to do.
This whole scenario and discussion kind of reminds me of the Kitty Genovese ordeal... The article never said anything about the attacker being present at the home- just said the girl got away and went to a house for help... In that scenario, I would arm myself, call 911, and probably try to help the girl- but would remain cautious in case it's a set up. Then again, I have my brother to back me up and he can be armed to the teeth in a moment's notice. I understand the what-ifs, and that's fun, but in real life you have to judge the situation, you can't just say "I'd do this"- too many variables, I'm simply stating that I would much rather help, in case it's the real deal and not some ploy. Burke put it best "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing." However, I would consider protection of your family and a call to 911 doing something... not pussy, just erring on the side of caution. I don't have kids though so I can't really blame someone for putting their children before being a good Samaritan. But for me, what I'd do, most likely would involve help rather than suspicion, but that's because I live in Evergreen, and this kind of thing hardly ever happens, and it's even less likely to be some gangland feint attempt at a strong arm home invasion.
ETA: I have two mitigating factors though in my case- I live across the street from a firefighter, have a guy down the street who has guns, and I'm less than a mile from both a fire station, ambulance barn, and JCSO mountain precinct, the response time would be next to nothing here. [Coffee]
I grew up in Oklahoma. The exact same scenario happened at a rural house a few miles north of town. When the homeowner opened the door he was greeted with a shotgun blast from someone in hiding. And this was well over 30 years ago.
I'll be goddamned if I'll open my door in the middle of the night for ANYBODY until my M1 carbine loaded with the nasty hollowpoints is in my hand, the chamber is charged, safety's off, and the laser is on. Meth whores feel no guilt about being bait.
I just love this handy lil' feller.....
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...s/DSC_0496.jpg
I was going to post something similar. The "lady is distress" ruse is very old and highly effective. The values that make us defend our families are the same values that would encourage us to help out a victim.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
I agree with you 100%. I would be armed and attempt to limit the risk to myself. Maybe exiting the house and locking the door behind me so my family is safe.
Of course you never know who is at the back door either...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Doesn't matter where the cops are honestly. In rondogs scenario the ambulances just wouldn't have to drive as far to grab your body.
Everybody wants to be a hero and I like the idea too. But at the end of the day bringing her inside does nothing but open you up to risk. Opening the door opens you up to risk of attack as well even if it isn't her that's in on it. The guy could have followed with a knife and while you are wrapping a towel around her the guy stabs you in the back or shoots you. Then the door is open, he has his victim, the rest of your family is at risk and you are now critically injured or dead.
I'll keep my door closed unless she is being attacked outside my door but even then I question it.
Look at the people in the trayvon martin deal. They called the cops and are now witnesses. If a hero ran out of his house and shot either martin or Zimmerman that guy could be in a world or hurt and have the legal and financial burden on him instead of the two involved.
I know each scenario is different and j think the ultimate goal is to never be in any of those scenarios but if I end up in one, my own ass and my family comes first.