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Originally Posted by spyder
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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>
Look one post above yours. :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Quote:
Originally Posted by <MADDOG>
Look one post above yours. :)
Your sarcasm meter is off, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Not a fixed income analyst nor saw a full financial record of H&K. Opinion is just based on this report.
I would be surprised if any major defense company will buy H&k. My guess is if H&K doesn't have any cash infusion by investment company or have more creditors, they will have a major garage sale at this rate.
Even if I had $5b, I don't think I have a skill set , ego , or operation skills to turn this company around. Truly sad that H&K didn't follow mkt strategy like other companies did.
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The decline in sales has squeezed company finances, sending its bonds tumbling and pushing it into borrowing at 10 percent to make interest payments of 9.5 percent on other debt.
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The German government restricted weapons exports to areas at risk of conflict in 2013, including Saudi Arabia. That cost H&K as much as 50 million euros in the first nine months of 2014, with total revenue shrinking to 102 million euros down from 153 million euros in the same period of 2013, according to its private financial accounts. Last month, the Defense Ministry said it had completed a damning report on its G36 assault rifles.
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H&K’s 295 million euros of bonds due in May 2018 fell to a three-year low of 63.6 cents, to yield 27.9 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.The notes rebounded to 74 cents, to yield 21.6 percent, on Thursday after German media reported that the army may alter its inventory of 180,000 H&K rifles rather than junk them. That gives the company the chance to win the contract to modify the weapons. The incident, however, underscored the volatility of a company with about 30 million euros of both earnings and annual interest payments.
The company took out a credit line in November with Bybrook Capital, a London-based hedge fund founded in 2013 by Robert J. Dafforn, to meet its 14 million-euro interest payment. Bybrook charges 10 percent for the 30 million-euro facility when it’s drawn and 4 percent when it’s not. Heeschen said the next bond coupon payment on May 15 will be a much smoother affair as its U.S. expansion begins to pay off.
I'm not a business man, never have been, probably never will be, but if that "someone" you are telling to pound sand, happens to be your biggest potential client, you are doing something wrong. I hope HK telling us civilians to pound sand, bites them in the ass. I could care less about HK, as I've never cracked the slide on a Glock, or had issues with M&P's...Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Ok I'll put my head out there. I guess I'm in the minority, I really like hk , every hk I've had I loved and I still carry one everyday. They may hate you but I still love them (maybe that's how my girlfriend feels hmmmm). I don't have a g36 or an mp5 though ;-)
Sorry Irving, you are correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Never been impressed with any true HK design minus the P7, as all its successful rifles were based on the CETME platform.
BAE spun them off in 2002 for a reason...
Also, you are seeing things from the American point of view... that IS how they see it. It's the German side that is ruling everything though. They are all about government contracts, always have been. Honestly, the best thing is if the American side split... that would be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
It was a figure of speech... No one from Hk has actually ever told anyone off. They have however said that they are going to build what they want to build, and if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. There are lots of fake things floating around on other forums that are bullshit, and sadly, everyone believe it without batting an eye. No one on this forum has ever had Hk tell them to pound sand, guaranteed. People just don't like the fact that Hk doesn't care about your opinion, that is however different from saying they have said "screw you" or whatever to the public. I did use the figure of speech, but like I said, it was a figure of speech. I should change that so no one else takes it wrong...... I did do a bad job there....
I didn't take it wrong, and realize it was a figure of speech, but HK basically HAS told the civilian market to pound sand. You are also correct in the fact that it's their business, their right to sell or not sell, whatever to whom ever they like. I just hope those civilian "whom evers" remember the the way HK chose to run their business. That's all I was getting at, like I said, I've never really had a desire to own any HK products, tho I'm sure they are excellent firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
They haven't though... people just took it that way (and yes, perception is everything). I've read all of the sources of these complaints, and not a one has any merit. A few were just blatantly made up...Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
Question, what exactly do you think is a question to ask them that they would tell someone to "go pound sand"? Can you list a few? (I'm not being a smart ass or anything, just curious)
I did see one where someone asked about Pmags... and why don't they make their MR556's work with them...
(I bring up the Pmags because I just got done fitting 50 to fit an MR556)
I believe their response was that it didn't need to, it wasn't designed around any specific magazine in mind other than their own, and that their mag and other mags work fine with it, and that they didn't need to change the 416 to fit one kind of magazine.
Of course the guy who got that reply went ape shit about how Hk didn't care about his problem... That's the stupid kind of thing that gets people going. Then it snow balls, and shit gets stupid.
Could they go in and change the cut program so the magazine housing sits higher up and gets out of the way for a Pmag? Sure, they could... they could go in, redesign the magazine housing, and kick it out to make people happy, but they don't have to, and people shouldn't be such giant bitches over not getting what they want. If someone is going to go out and spend that kind of cash on a rifle, and then bitch about their mags because they don't want to buy what fits...... that kind of person is an idiot. That's like going out and buying a big giant diesel like an excursion, and then bitching about the fuel economy. But... it's been shown again and again that people do it all the time, and then everyone else believe the crap, without finding out what actually happened.
And again, I'm not talking about the literal sense of "pound sand" like you seem to think I am. Please see post #22, for a brief overview as to how I believe HK told folks to pound sand. They said pound sand through their business practices, not through actual customer service related incidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Again, just asking, but what business practices other than something like the example I gave? I'm just trying to clearly see where you are coming from, I'm interested.
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Post 22? Nothing in there says "screw the Americans", it says "hello, we're Germany, and we're not that brilliant at sales strategy, or anything involving using our time wisely". Again, they are going to do what they are going to do, and why does it have to make anyone happy? I don't get the mentality behind getting all bent out of shape and taking things like that personally. Ya, they did stupid things trying to figure out their market niche and failed... and? They are going after Gov. contracts, with the civilian market as a back burner process. I believe it is stupid also, hands down, but I don't rationally see how them screwing up is a personal hit? Hell, I don't see how them saying "buy our stuff as it is, or don't" is a personal hit..... When their current business plan fails (and I do personally think it will make them hit rock bottom), the next owner of Hk will hopefully do something smarter with the company and point it in a better direction.
I like HK products. Especially the old school stuff. One way they were telling people to pound sand was to go after the HK94 clone makers and threatening to sue them in order to force them to stop building firearms people want. HK doesn't want to sell HK94's to the American public and doesn't want anyone else to either.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Um no... That's Hk saying, "you don't have the rights to make our gun, so stop". That is a completely legitimate business thing, and was in no way pointed at anyone but the makers trying to use Hk's design without licensing. ANY company that you try to copy will do that if they have valid IP on a product that you try to rip off, ANY COMPANY. Vector could have asked for licensing rights, but they didn't, they tried the asking for forgiveness thing first, and it bit them along with GSG, and a couple of other companies. There are those that asked to produce under licensing, and low and behold, Hk let them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSS
I don't have any idea of when they're roller lock patents are up, but as soon as they are... there will be a clone a plenty. Actually, they should be up already.....
They still have them silly fluted chambers? I kinda like my .308 brass .308 shaped... and not thrown into the next berm.
[Coffee]
The fact they won't find a way to get them to the American public market and at the same time won't let anyone else do it. Obviously there is a market for the product. But they won't service it. My opinion only. You may not agree. But that course of action does not endear HK as a company to me.
Edited to say that they will let licensed HK factories produce them. Turkey has been trickling some in lately. I doubt small manufacturers could swing a deal with HK.
The lawsuits had nothing to do with roller lock patents.
Wouldn't Colt have the same justification to sue ar-15 clone makers. Honest question.
Didn't know about the HK drama, just never was attracted to them. I knew an FFL that loved 'em. I played around with them but they just didn't "fit". Then I found out the prices.
Never been a Beretta fan either. Don't see much love for them here either.
Personally the price of guns have not really been a factor to me. At least up to the $3000 range. If I want it I will find a way eventually to own it. You can usually sell it for close to the same or even more than original price. I'm going to put more money thru it in the form of ammo anyways.
And frankly the way the manufacturer feels about the customer is not a factor to me. There are a lot of egos and assholes in the firearms industry. Lots of genuine good people too. I don't really care who profits from my purchase. I buy it for me. Not to vote for my favorite person.
I meant the type of gun... their roller locks... not the actual locking system.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSS
No, the AR patents ran out a long time ago. This is why I was saying that I don't know if Hk's patents were still valid somehow at the time. This is why everyone can use Remington's designs for the 870, and 700, two of the other most notable. The claims on them are history.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSS