Want to see how well a government run health care system works. Visit an Indian reservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
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Want to see how well a government run health care system works. Visit an Indian reservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
The key to victory is to make sure that no matter what is chosen, all paths lead to the desired outcome, at least eventually.
This preserves the illusion of choice, to pacify the unruly, while guaranteeing the triumph of the state.
Which [the public option] is equally (if not more) unsustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
Where do they get the value (used to be money) to pay for all of this? A VAT? Higher payroll/income taxes? Sure, tax "the rich" (except Dems) and watch unemployment spike. It's a zero-sum game with collectivists.
I think a lot of Bernie voters know this but mistakenly think they will get to pick winners and losers.
I don't really see a problem with it, honestly. Treating healthcare as a for-profit enterprise will only hurt the consumer, which is everyone. From the surgery costs to the drug costs, there is profit that needs to be made at every level, which drives up the cost greatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
Canada has basic medical care as single payer, with voluntary procedures (typically the most expensive procedures) not covered and subject to additional costs/coverage under private plans.
I'm going to say this now, because I know it'll be accused of me if I don't. Hillary is not to be trusted, and Bernie Sanders is living in a dream world and his plans are not fiscally feasible.
I think that the much bigger problem is that with current health "insurance," people are completely insulated from the actual price of procedures and don't/can't price shop. Voluntary medical procedures like lasik and plastic surgery are for sure run on a for profit basis and the prices have been dropping while procedures have been getting better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
I wish I could remember the website, but there is a place where you can submit a procedure you need doing, and not only do they price shop for you, but actually pay you to go to the places that are less expensive. The payment comes directly from your provider, who is enthusiastic about people not blindly spending money that mostly falls to the provider.
Hurt them how? Profit motive and market competition tends to increase quality and reduce prices. Just look at the technology market and imagine the pieces of crap you'd have and the high prices you'd pay if it weren't for competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
When it's run by the government, it won't be cheap, won't be efficient, and the "customer" value will be weighed against the tax dollars they can bring in vs. how much their care will cost. Wife's godmother lived in Canada and had cancer. They just ran her around in circles and made her wait until she died. The same thing will happen here if we let it.
That is an interesting concept. If you can find that site again, please share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Insurance isn't like car shopping. Can you ever say that you went to your insurance and said "Well this other company will do the procedure and only cost me $xxxx" and have them price match? No, it doesn't happen. Because they all work together and fix prices, or lock you in to a network of practitioners so that you can't shop around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Heard about it on NPR. I'll look for it right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Very interesting, thank you for finding that for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Everyone should probably be interested in this.
Why? Do you or anyone else actually believe within the next year , we will have a choice. The fix was in when ACA became a reality. Then the .gov steered one to the state run health co-op. Which as everyone who has a pulse knows, is going tits up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
The writing for any "affordable" ins is on the wall. IMO by 2017 (if that) we will be paying OOP for everything. Then holding our breath wondering when the .gov reimbursement check will arrive.
Doubt it ill happen. Look at the fine print of quite a few MD's That small sentence which says SORRY WE DO NOT ACCEPT INSURANCE. Hell a lot of clinics and small time doc's have either closed or joined these "HEALTH COMBINES" UC Denver or Banner, to name a few. I was told why the small ones join. Unfortunately it escapes me at the moment.
That is what works...period. Nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Healthcare is NOT a right, it is something to be earned. A persons health is their business and their responsibility, selfish assholes are the ones who want other people to pay their healthcare bills.
The 2017 health plan everyone will be on is don't get sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Sound familiar?
Libtards will not admit this fail. And that's the worst part. If they would admit their ideas failed (as they always do) we could learn and move on. Of course then we wouldn't have Libtards.
Win! I've gone 10 years paying for health insurance, with nothing more than wellness visits every couple years, and the results are always perfect (knock on wood). Where is my discount for going to the gym (paid for by me)? Or my discount for eating healthier (more expensive) food?Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
Little off topic rant.
Obamacare does not seek to improve medical care or the administration of medical care. Obamacare only seeks to levy the financial burden of the stupid and lazy upon the industrious thereby bringing everyone down and to empower the government further towards tyranny.
I keep repeating, the only economic condition we can all share is poverty, one goal of Obamacare is to drive the people of this nation into poverty.
And meanwhile the costs continue to increase only at a higher rate now that we're all 'insured' because we all know how well insurance has done for driving the actual costs of covered goods down.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
Stop giving health care to deadbeats & illegals!
Problem solved. Problem staying solved.
How is it that Ridge is the only person to comment on the only direct solution to rising pricess we've ever seen?
Yes, all those other issues exist, but as far as a company doing what had previously been impossible (price shopping), AND the providers encouraging it by directly paying insureds is a pretty big step in the right direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Price shop with who?
NOW I REMEMBER!! One of the reasons smaller practices are joining the large (UC Health etc) groups. They get exemptions from the .gov how they treat, diagnose, bill patients AND the .gov.
Everyone in medicine is either going with the large "network" No longer accepting ins, OR closing shop.
I'm under the impression (from the article) that the more expensive prices are out of hospitals.
They are - you can only pay for all that (required) free indigent care by charging those who actually can/do pay a funkton of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Decided to dig this up since it's all Obamacare mess:
Just got an all-company email from my employer outlining yet more damage caused by the idiot in chief.
Quote:
Team – I wanted to provide everyone an update on our medical insurance renewal.
The Affordable Care Act has put us in a difficult spot. Because we are very near but below the 50 employee threshold, we have very limited options. Basically, we can keep our current plan, which is much more expensive than last year, or adopt ACA-compliant plans, which are even more expensive and not as good. We explored other options but none made sense for us.
Therefore, we have decided to keep our current plan for 2016. And, while we will continue to subsidize much of this cost for employees, there will unfortunately be a substantial increase in your premiums. We plan to get the final rates to you in the next couple of weeks so that you can make your elections.
Yeah, everything gets better when the government gets involved. I can't believe they lied to us! [Sarcasm2]
I'm waiting for one of those letters myself, my plan was continued into 2016 so i'll wait again until later in the year.
My folks are on Medicare. As soon as ACA kicked in, Dad's cancer doctor retired. Mom's plan disintegrated and is a hollow shell of what it used to cover. They have no dental coverage now, which means that Dad's emergency dental surgery will be taken from their grocery money, which is less than $200/month. A few weeks ago, one of their friends choked on a piece of food that was caught in his esophagus, and he ended up needing surgery. Unfortunately, the surgeon that specialized in repairing such trauma moved to a larger city when ACA kicked in. Their friend ended up having to be medivac'd, instead of being able to go to the hospital as he once was. This ACA is a mockery and a sham, and anyone that doesn't see that is either being deliberately obtuse, or doesn't want to see the corrupt center of it all.
People's plans are being gutted, their benefits are reduced, and their choices removed. Don't give me the whole "who could price match insurance?" That's a straw man argument. People used to have a far greater selection among doctors in their plans. That's no longer the case. Now it seems that the choice is between "one or none."
And by the way, my folks worked their ASSES off their entire lives. Their nest egg and their 401K was reduced to nothing because they chose to help family members in dire straits. Healthy people that get cancer and heart problems are not lumped into the "find a creative way to cover my elective surgery" crowd. We've also got a large number of the populace that's getting older, and as you get older, things begin breaking down. There needs to be a way to bolster Medicare so our elderly population doesn't suffer at the greedy hands of fucking politicians that vote themselves exempt from the vile plan they've saddled us with.
I am so lucky. I have good insurance from work and the premiums only went up 3% this year. But the good news, I opted for the High Deductible plan last year and the deductible was over $3000. This year the same HD plan has a $1750 deductible. For ALL my benefits I pay a whopping $12 per month...BCBS health plan, dental, vision, life ins for me and wife and short term disability. I put about $750 per year into an HSA and that rolls over year after year.
I don't know how my company has dodged the ACA bullet but so far we have...knock on wood.
Sounds like you've got the holy grail of insurance plans!
We are blessed that my wife works for a self-insured hospital group. We have a reasonable monthly copay and they contribute the funds to our HSA as part of the benefits package.
My employer's insurance offerings, given we have around 1,000 employees, is much less affordable and has significant out of pocket costs in addition to the high copays.
This is the way I see it as well. The ACA was designed to consolidate the insurers who consolidate the providers. It's a giant pyramid with Barack Hussein Obama at the top pissing on everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrey
In a true market we have this ability. And prices tied to market rates which would make insurance less of a necessity for basic care. But once gov gets involved with cost shifting, mandatory contract rates, and mandatory treatment laws, all bets are off.
Insurers and FedGov are the middle-men of healthcare and they need every cent from payers.
I don't know if the plan is really any better than any other...I just don't have to pay much for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrey
I think the idea is to make it so bad that the people BEG for the slavery of a Marxist run healthcare system like the British NHS. Only after we get it and people start dying on waiting lists will people realize how badly we've been lied to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
Any replacement for the ACA that isn't 110% free market driven is going to fail.
And it just gets better. Just heard on the news the other day that there is a push to get a ballot initiative pushed through so that Colorado residents can vote for, or against, a state run single payer health care system and if I remember right, the pushers for it said something like they would only need to add a 10% tax on each pay check to cover it. What a deal. Yes, it is a democrat pushing for it.
yepQuote:
Originally Posted by TRnCO
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/152062-...le-payer-in-16
They have the signatures, it will be on the ballot. The real question and test for "us" is. IF the "single payer" passes. What does that say about CO?Quote:
Originally Posted by TRnCO
It means one of two things (bad things) 1) The demographics of Colorado have shifted into way left California territory or 2) The new mail-in-only ballot system mean any election can be rigged with little effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
OR
D: ALL THE ABOVE
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath for that one. After this massive collapse, people probably can't wait for the .gov to save us.
.gov will save them by ushering them to their graves, just like Stalin and Mao saved millions of their own citizens.
Wife was talking to her rheumatologist today. She and her husband are in their 50s, both are doctors, and have their own practices in the same office. By 2018 doctors will have to be affiliated with a larger facility to treat patients under Medicare. Her small practice will be closing and she'll be going to work at University Hospital. Her husband's practice will be closing. The older doctors they know are retiring early and are closing their practices.
So that stuff Kazoo is always yelling about is true?