WordQuote:
Originally Posted by smchop
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WordQuote:
Originally Posted by smchop
I'll take a poser over someone who will beat you up over what you're wearing any day. Not that I'd ever accidentally find myself wearing a MC jacket.
Oh hell, here we go...
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/01/3...ement-officer/
Quote:
DENVER, Colo. (CBS4) – Representatives for the parties involved in the deadly shooting at the National Western Complex are speaking out and CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass has confirmed a law enforcement officer fired his gun during a fight. It’s not clear is there were any other shooters.
Colorado DOC employee is the shooter.
Those DOC employees are a rowdy bunch.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...-stadium<br />
So a bunch of motorcycle gangs were hanging out in an enclosed area...I'm shockedQuote:
Originally Posted by Doc45
LOL, tell me of your vast experience with patch holders and genuine scooter folks......Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I've found more integrity and honesty in patch holders than 90% of "civilized" society.
Wannabe's are much more dangerous than a patch holder, he has something to prove.
The patch holder already did.
Must've been a pretty stern stare.Quote:
He (the club's attorney) said several Iron Order members initiated the fight. Here's his version:
Mongol members were on the bottom floor at their booth when several members of the Iron Order walked down the stairs from their booth upstairs and started staring at the Mongols.
To be convinced that because you ride an inherently less stable vehicle, that is more so weather dependent than any other motor vehicle, that you wear a leather vest, and several dozen others do that you are entitled, or have earned the respect of the average citizen, or of another MC/Gang strikes me as a bit....retarded. Maybe I'm not seeing where MC's/Gangs helped us out of the last financial crisis, war, depression, or national issue, maybe I'm a bit over them since my wife's uncle was stabbed to death by 4 , drugged up, and drunk Motorcycle gang members in AZ, I'm not sure what it is but I find every aspect of it ridiculous.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...19fe059a40.jpg
Yeah. A couple of juveniles had a tiff because someone looked at somebody, they're so mature they decided that someone had to die for it. I'm glad the prospect and his buddy that i saw at Subway on Saturday didn't decide to shoot me when I looked at his patches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Now it's getting serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc45
Starting to sound like Waco (not that time when the FBI burnt women and children alive because "guns" and "crazy people" but the other time).
I've known a few patched members of MC's over the years, and you know exactly where you stand with them. Most of them live their lives in a "you don't screw with me and what I'm doing and I won't screw with you" manner. As you said, they have nothing to prove, and as long as you don't give them a reason to be upset with you, they'll leave you alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
The only time I've ever even seen a real life club member (in costume anyway) was one time when he came flying down a residential street, parked his bike out front, ran into a house, screamed at a lady for like 5 minutes, then slammed the door and hopped on the bike and took off so fast down the street that he got both wheels off the ground over the speed bump at the end of the block. What is your experience with hipsters and lawyers riding Harley's having "something to prove?" Don't get your panties in a bunch over my comment about preferring hipsters to club members. I generally try to stay out of this conversation because I don't understand this culture, at all. Not even one little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
I can't speak for Bert, but from talking to the people I've known and talked to the issue isn't necessarily with people riding as much as with how they act. The problem arises when someone that doesn't live within the lifestyle of an MC, but on weekends they decide they need to play "dress-up" as if they were part of the lifestyle. Most of the time an MC member will completely ignore someone riding down the road (I ride and have on many occasions been passed by a group of MC members without any issues), but when the person decides they need to have a jacket/vest with patches on the back they are opening themselves up for trouble. Some patches don't really get their attention, but when someone has anything resembling a three piece patch that the MC's have they take it seriously. Those patches are very significant (who you are, what area you claim as your club's, etc) in the MC world and have to be earned - how depends on the specific club, but they are not taken lightly or given out to anyone that hasn't proven their worth and loyalty to the club. Members are truly offended by someone thinking they can just throw a patch on the back of their jacket and act like they are a part of their world. I personally could not live their lifestyle, but when I ride I don't try to look like I belong in it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Here is a link that explains a little about the meaning and significance of patches:
http://www.brotherhoodmotorcycleclub...s/Page2038.htm
Sounds like a stolen valor situationQuote:
Originally Posted by alan0269
I won't say I have lived the lifestyle, and have never claimed I have. I have been around a few different clubs with several "patch carrying" members. As has been said, don't mess with them or their lifestyle, they don't mess with you. They are very down to earth people and friendly. I have been around Bandidos, Angels and SOS,, all three groups have great people in them. When asked why I didn't ride a HD, I told them I didn't have the time to work on it, so I rode a Victory. A lot of these groups do fund raising for local charities and help out people in the local community.
I am more worried about the newbies and posers than the actual members. I have only been in one situation that I started to feel "unsafe," and the situation ended within a minute when a senior member put an end to the "newbie's" questioning. We were at the memorial in Salida, and the rest of the weekend went smoothly.
Don't lump everyone into one group, because all have a few bad apples. If you do, then all gun owners are murderers and all car owners are drunk drivers.
I know, right? Now it's all toy runs on the 3-wheel Gold Wing and driving the mini van down to Denny's for dinner at 4pm. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
Meh...
I've been around angels, sons of silence, high plains drifters, bandidos, and a few others on numerous occasions as the only non club guy at gatherings on neutral ground. I would say they all live up to their Southpark stereotypical portrayal almost exactly.
They all do everything they can to get you to look at them out in public, and then act all "disrespected" if you look at them.
They all love the elementary age reverse psychology garbage, "we are not a gang, we are club" shit... Yes I get it, you said "we" and "gang" in the same sentence while not incriminating yourself.
If someone thinks they deserve respect because of where their mommy sewed on their bottom patch on their jacket, I'm not impressed at all.
It's all about the group mentality. You don't see too many fights when it's even on both sides, they don't like it that way. Usually they demand "respect" when they outnumber whoever they are trying to intimidate with their matching goatees, loud pipes, and outfits, I've never seen one by himself demand anything when outnumbered.
My dad and I rode down and pulled up about 20 minutes after this happened. On the way there going down Brighton Blvd we passed 2 separate groups of SOS hauling ass outta there. I thought that was kinda odd, then when we pulled up the place was on lockdown, no one in or out. We stood out front talking to some friends for about another 20 minutes, they opened everything back up and we went in. Besides one little area being blocked off and a shit ton of cops there wasn't much of a sign anything had happened.
What I find crazy is that is was just limited to 7 people getting hurt. You have that many 1%er's all cooped up together it doesn't take much of a spark to set off a big fire and usually one something pops it's hard to stop it.
I don't pretend to know much about the "Outlaw Biker Culture" other than what I read (Hunter Thompson's "Hells Angels" is a very dated, but also very interesting, look at this phenomenon in its early days. It was Thompson's first book and IMO his best. He went downhill from there.)
But I've been riding since 1982 and you can't ride a road bike in the US without moving in some of the same circles, so I see these guys from time to time at gatherings like the Motorcycle Expo or at Sturgis and Daytona.
What I find interesting is the way that the "outlaw culture" has been adopted by the mainstream. Of course, this is nothing new - look at "gansta rap" and the "Narcocorridos" music out of Mexico. "Outlaw culture" has always been a hot commodity, but "biker culture" has almost become a worn out cliché.
The other thing I find interesting is that it seems like these actual "outlaw clubs" aren't really about riding motorcycles that much anyway. You see their choppers parked outside of a bar at 2:00 in the afternoon on a nice day. The guys you see doing the long distance rides or spending months at a time on the road aren't these "outlaws" they're usually old retired guys on Gold Wings or BMWs.
Although many aspects of "outlaw biker culture" have enjoyed widespread adoption among non-outlaws for decades, things like "choppers", loud pipes and leather vests covered with patches, the phenomenon of the actual "fake outlaw club" seems to be relatively recent one. That is, the groups that sport 3 piece patches or have "club nicknames", etc.
I honestly don't understand that one. It seems bizarre to me that grown adults, people with jobs and families, would put on a fake "cut" and strut around like a badass "outlaw" on the weekends. And the notion of a "law enforcement MC" seems even weirder. "Outlaw-Cops?" Huh?
Maybe it's like some of these "Airsoft" guys who spend thousands of $$ on "Operator" gear and form up fake military units for their little Airsoft games? That strikes me as bizarre too. I mean, yeah, I used to "play Army" too. When I was a KID! :rolleyes:
Only Harley I ever owned was an Ironhead- it came with a fender sticker that said "It used to be about motorcycles, now it's just a fuckin' fashion show"
Sold it when I had a friend that was begging to buy it... to be his first Harley, too.
I try to keep it about motorcycles... and just enjoy riding.
National Council of Clubs Responds to Denver Motorcycle Expo Shooting
February 1, 2016
Press Release From The National Council Of Clubs
RE: Colorado Motorcycle Expo Shooting
The National Council of Clubs, an organization dedicated to protecting the political and legal interests of hundreds of motorcycle clubs and thousands of their members nationwide, is issuing the following statement related to Saturday’s shooting at the Colorado Motorcycle Expo in Denver:
Various media sources have reported that a confrontation between two motorcycle clubs, the Mongols and the Iron Order, resulted in at least one confirmed dead and at least 7 injured during the Colorado Motorcycle Expo Saturday, January 30th. The National Council of Clubs is deeply disturbed by such unnecessary acts of violence at any event, particularly one as well supported by the community over the years as the Colorado Motorcycle Expo, the largest indoor motorcycle swap-meet in the country.
Council of Clubs attorney Wade Eldridge was present at the expo and in fact witnessed much of the confrontation. Mr. Eldridge says that he was present when he saw a crowd of Mongols and Iron Order, approximately a total of 20-30 individuals, gather inside the expo. According to Eldridge there was yelling and a verbal argument ensuing.
Mr. Eldridge then heard a gunshot. He saw an Iron Order member holding a handgun in his right hand with his right arm extended. According to Eldridge, he heard people shouting, “Put your gun away”. The Iron Order member then dropped his arm and pointed his weapon at the ground, says Eldridge. Eldridge says he reported what he saw to authorities on the scene. Eldridge then called 911 and reported what he saw.
http://www.motorcycleprofilingprojec...1_14-09-48.jpg
Eldridge’s account is validated by this photo taken by a Council of Clubs participant that happened to be present when the conflict began. This photo was taken following the first shot fired, the source says. The photo shows a member of the Iron Order moving away from the crowd holding a gun in his right hand.
The gun is pointed forward. Eldridge has confirmed that the man in this photo is the same man he saw with a gun extended in his right hand. Eldridge says this man “is the same guy I saw.” This is also the same man identified by eyewitnesses, as reported by many media sources, as the member of the Iron Order that was questioned by police following the shooting.
In another photo provided by the same Council of Clubs participant, this same man, following the shooting, is pictured with another Iron Order member (who appears to be posing) and two law enforcement officers. He is not in handcuffs and is in fact being allowed to use a cell phone even though he is suspected of firing shots.
http://www.motorcycleprofilingprojec...1_14-10-27.jpg
Stephen Stubbs, an attorney for the Mongols Motorcycle Club, stated that members of the Iron Order is predominately made up of police officers and taunted members of the Mongols into an argument that escalated into violence that led to the fatal shooting of a Mongols member.
John C. Whitfield, a lawyer and Iron Order member, confirmed to the Denver Post that Iron Order members include L.E.O.’s. Relating to this specific shooting, Whitfield told the Denver AP, “a Colorado Department of Corrections officer fired his gun during a weekend brawl at a Denver motorcycle show that left one dead and seven others injured.”
The Iron Order Motorcycle Club has been involved in a laundry list of confrontations around the country with other motorcycle clubs that have resulted in violence or death. For example, on June 26, 2014 Florida State Attorney Angela Corey refused to charge Iron Order prospect Kristopher Stone after he shot and killed Black Pistons patch holder Zachariah Tipton in Jacksonville Beach. Corey outrageously ruled the killing was justifiable homicide even though the Iron Order member shot the unarmed Black Pistons motorcycle club member in the face while only a few feet apart.
Iron Order members have not been held accountable for any of the violence or killings that they have been involved in. So far, the same holds true for the incident in Colorado. Police have told the Denver AP that “they have made no arrests and a Department of Corrections spokeswoman did not immediately return calls for comment.”
The Iron Order, which is an off-duty law enforcement officer based motorcycle club, is identified by the ATF to be an “Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.” (See, The ATF Report on OMG’s and the Military, 2014)
The Council of Clubs has obtained and reviewed intelligence that confirms that the Iron Order repeatedly diminishes the relationship between law enforcement and the community they are intended to serve and protect.
According to a 1% club member that was present and has attended the expo for the past 15 years,“There has never been a confrontation, so much as a fistfight. And many 1% organizations have attended including the Hells Angels, Sons of Silence, Bandidos, Outlaws, Mongols, and many others. There has never been a problem until a law enforcement club showed up. Never. It would be against an unwritten code.”
The Council of Clubs believes that law enforcement clubs involved in confrontations with motorcycle clubs are completely inconsistent with the intended mission of law enforcement and should not be condoned or protected by professional law enforcement and other government officials from culpability.
According to another member of a 1% motorcycle club present at the expo, “local and federal authorities that responded to the incident acted in a professional and respectful manor. Authorities contained the crime scene and did not harass or detain members of other motorcycle clubs that were present. Major 1% clubs evacuated the area to allow law enforcement to do their job. Although the expo was later canceled, initially the owner of the venue and law enforcement authorities invited uninvolved clubs back to the expo.”
The National Council of Clubs has a heightened concern with the general demeanor of some law enforcement member motorcycle clubs. The repeated public displays of violence by members of the Iron Order, combined with the conflict they infuse within society, as compared to the intended mission of law enforcement, should be a concern to all citizens, professional law enforcement and government officials everywhere.
The National Council of Clubs will continue to access information related to this incident and will stand by, ready for further comment.
Contact Information:
All inquiries should be emailed to media@councilofclubs.org and addressed to:
David Devereaux- Spokesperson -OR-
Jerry Theophilopoulos- Legal Counsel
Huh, no preferential treatment there.
Wow, in before the lock.
EDIT: That wasn't directed at roberth's post.
In another photo provided by the same Council of Clubs participant, this same man, following the shooting, is pictured with another Iron Order member (who appears to be posing) and two law enforcement officers. He is not in handcuffs and is in fact being allowed to use a cell phone even though he is suspected of firing shots.
Maybe he's calling his attorney
taunted members of the Mongols into an argument that escalated into violence that led to the fatal shooting of a Mongols member.
BOO Fucking HOO. They're making fun of me. Fucking times have sure changed.. It's ok to intimidate someone. BUT.................... if someone looks at you . You get your butt chaffed.
Now if said IO wasn't man enough to back his play w/out a gun. He's fucked and deserves to be
If that really is him in the photos he looks like the pilsburry dough boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Some .orgs recruit big guys as cannon fodder. Big on brawn slow on uptake. Just sayin. Either way it's a shitty thing when THE MC Event (one of it not ) the largest, gets shut down due to some chest thumping, posturing costumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
Mother fucker. You wear the patch, you roll with it.
Handle your shit outside, away from posers and wannabe's. Give or take the beating. Walk away like a man, not a corpse
How many of life's problems would be solved with such simple advice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
When did MCs develop a lobbying arm (Council of Clubs) and have lawyers representing them?
When the first club incorporated and became a "Business".Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Hells Angels IIRC.
LOCAL 81. HA and all HA related items are .......................COPYRIGHT & TRADEMARK protected. Big Red machine, Local 81, Red & White, World Wide etc. "They" had an Idea and it's paid off. As it gets warmer, check out those Red & White sneakers, YEP HA Paraphernalia.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
Look at that picture. NOW flash back to the MEDIA camera's snapping, video whirling. If anyone remembers That guy... Was shown being escorted out in bracelets with a serious number of LE's surrounding him. That pic of him with another "club" member and 2 cops. IMO that was or may have been taken earlier in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
I find it hard to believe (hypothetically) IF said person was the POI. with all the security there around him. At the hospital etc. Why is this guy staandign there alone? seems suspicious.
Of course it would not be the first time i might have been incorrect
Also after the DPD paid $25K ?? to the denver chapter for "harassment" and other assorted lawyeresque words.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
I'm still a little mind-blowed about the notion of a "law enforcement outlaw club." [facepalm]
How is membership in an "outlaw motorcycle gang" not grounds for being fired from your LE job? :confused:
Diversity ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
They would have to know about it first...Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
With the amount of surveillance one supposedly has on OMG's, it wouldn't be hard to review photos. Maybe they're the domestic terrorist and not returning veterans?Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
So cops don't have to periodically do background checks after they're hired? In the Army I had to update my clearance every 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
Yeah, if the ATF is saying this is an outlaw gang and has LEOs in it, shouldn't the ATF be providing those agencies with a list of known or suspected members? Seems like a pretty easy thing to do, ATF provides the list, cop/gang member gets called into the chief's/sheriif's office. Show him surveillance photo in gang cut. "Is this you?" "Yes." "Turn in your badge and gun. You're fired."Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Some agencies do periodic background checks, some don't. As it pertains to the guy in the shooting, it's the DOC, the only time his background would come into question after initial clearance, is if he got into trouble after being hired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
Like if he murdered someone?Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002