I need to be taught to be more paranoid about gun registration

Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

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Originally Posted by asmotao

You are either trying to be funny -- or are woefully ignorant about the state of technology.

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Neither. I read a recent article about tracing a firearm from a crime and the FBI stated the process was this:
They contact the manufacturer to find out what distributor it was sold to.
They then contact the distributor to find out what retailer it was sold to.
Then the retailer to manually search his files to find who it was sold to. I am not sure what order 4473s a FFL files them by but I bet it is not by serial number or manufacturer. I assume by date sold or received.
If the FFL has closed then the feds have the files which has to be manually searched.
The entire process usually takes weeks.

In the article they stated none of the records they have have been converted to digital format.

Even if they did scan the records, OCR software does not work very well with handwritten text which most of not all 4473s are.

I have bought numerous firearms from numerous FFLs, I cannot even imagine how difficult it would be for them to figure out all I had.

Huh, you believed something the .gov said publicly.... thats kinda cute

It makes perfect sense. The feds do not have most of the forms, the FFLs have them. Even the ones they do have are all hand written. Do you think they are going to pay someones to enter the data by hand into a database? I don't.

I am all for a good conspiracy but this one just doesn't work. Like I said earlier it will be much easier to get other people to turn in firearm owners.

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Originally Posted by newracer

Neither. I read a recent article about tracing a firearm from a crime and the FBI stated the process was this:

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Try not to quote to me how the FTC works unless you have actually been through the process or seen it work first hand.

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Originally Posted by newracer

The entire process usually takes weeks.

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Or much longer -- unless they need the data right now, then you would probably be surprised.

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Originally Posted by newracer

In the article they stated none of the records they have have been converted to digital format.

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Thats nice. I'm sure there will be a bunch of people in Martinsburg and Clarksburg happy to know they can go home now.

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Originally Posted by newracer

Even if they did scan the records, OCR software does not work very well with handwritten text which most of not all 4473s are.

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Tell that to any major financial institution, data broker, or stock order house. They don't OCR hundreds of thousands of complex documents per day. Nope. Not at all.

What you can play with at the local best buy has nothing on what tens and hundreds of millions of dollars of dedicated resources and development can make happen. When real money is on the line radical things happen quickly.

But with many places it really doesn't matter since 4473's are going digital - that wasn't to help the FFLs.

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Originally Posted by newracer

The entire process usually takes weeks.

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Dougherty siblings....little car chase that started in FL and ended in CO on I-25 several years ago. The news seemed to know every firearm those three had ever bought, well before the joyride ended on I-25.

-probably just lucky guesses on the part of the newsroom crew...

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Originally Posted by asmotao

Try not to quote to me how the FTC works unless you have actually been through the process or seen it work first hand.
Or much longer -- unless they need the data right now, then you would probably be surprised.
Thats nice. I'm sure there will be a bunch of people in Martinsburg and Clarksburg happy to know they can go home now.
Tell that to any major financial institution, data broker, or stock order house. They don't OCR hundreds of thousands of complex documents per day. Nope. Not at all.
What you can play with at the local best buy has nothing on what tens and hundreds of millions of dollars of dedicated resources and development can make happen. When real money is on the line radical things happen quickly.
But with many places it really doesn't matter since 4473's are going digital - that wasn't to help the FFLs.

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You asked and I was simply stating what I was basing my opinion on. Fact is they still do not have most of the forms and there are much easier ways to find out who has firearms. The idea that they go this route to figure out who has what firearms is ludicrous. It would be much more efficient and cost effective to simply offer a reward for information.

All the people saying molon labe have went to hiding...

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Originally Posted by hatidua

Dougherty siblings....little car chase that started in FL and ended in CO on I-25 several years ago. The news seemed to know every firearm those three had ever bought, well before the joyride ended on I-25.

-probably just lucky guesses on the part of the newsroom crew...

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That is a few individuals, try figuring out that information for the tens of millions of firearm owners.

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

All the people saying molon labe have went to hiding...

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Not hiding [pick-me]

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Not hiding [pick-me]

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Thank you dwalker...

For those people who say "I lost/sold XYZ", I'll buy some tampons specifically for you...

Well I am the first to joke about boating accidents, danged ole firearms should never go boating without supervision, but the honest truth is I dont hide my feelings much...

Carpe Labia >~

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Originally Posted by Fromk

Finally a good reason to have a Hi-Point handgun...a decoy for the search!!! I always knew they were being made for something.

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Hahaha +1

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Originally Posted by newracer

You asked and I was simply stating what I was basing my opinion on. Fact is they still do not have most of the forms and there are much easier ways to find out who has firearms. The idea that they go this route to figure out who has what firearms is ludicrous. It would be much more efficient and cost effective to simply offer a reward for information.

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Don't get me wrong. I am not saying they have the forms all organized and ready to go now (far from it) - or that they have a giant computer database with everything in it ready to go. Just saying its not a far leap technically to make it happen quickly.

LOL, that's funny

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

Thank you dwalker...

For those people who say "I lost/sold XYZ", I'll buy some tampons specifically for you...

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Originally Posted by hatidua

Dougherty siblings....little car chase that started in FL and ended in CO on I-25 several years ago. The news seemed to know every firearm those three had ever bought, well before the joyride ended on I-25.

-probably just lucky guesses on the part of the newsroom crew...

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Let me guess...Glock, AR15, AK47..hahaha

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Originally Posted by asmotao

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying they have the forms all organized and ready to go now (far from it) - or that they have a giant computer database with everything in it ready to go. Just saying its not a far leap technically to make it happen quickly.

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I agree it could technically be done but the time and money it would cost would be massive. Hell it would be easier to just query all the firearm forums to find out who has firearms.

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Originally Posted by newracer

That is a few individuals, try figuring out that information for the tens of millions of firearm owners.

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They had that info asap because they knew who the people were, and did a complete data base search, same for that dorner guy. Granted he left a "manifesto" for the world to see. Take 500 people and they will eventually have you info but it will not be an overnight turn around time.

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Originally Posted by newracer

I agree it could technically be done but the time and money it would cost would be minor compared with other programs of similar scale and well within the discretionary budget of congress. Hell it would be easier to just query all the firearm forums to find out who has firearms.

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FIFY.

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Originally Posted by asmotao

FIFY.

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Or look in the SHOW Us You Latest Purchase Thread.

Or "they" could merely get a hold of the NRA membership list. That may just inform "them" who MIGHT have or at least had a firearm. May not be a legal maneuver but that has not bothered "them" in the past.

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

Thank you dwalker...

For those people who say "I lost/sold XYZ", I'll buy some tampons specifically for you...

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I agree with this. Rather than the "lost them", "sold them", "hate them", "keep a throw down to give up to the searchers" responses that tends to divide us and show weakness, shouldn't the responses read more like "I have a shit ton of guns, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo, a well trained family support system that's "all in" and the willingness to defend EVERY DAMN BIT OF IT. If you keep chipping away at our rights afforded by the Constitution that OUR families have shed blood to defend (and most likely yours too) you will not walk away from this unscarred. However, should you decide to cease your attack on our country from within you and I will both simply part ways and go on about our day."

Sure seems like THAT is the united message we should be yelling from the mountaintops.

I have no doubt that the current traitors in office, both federally and local, would wipe their asses with the U.S. constitution and do whatever the hell they want to. Innocent until proven guilty only applies if you are a pedophile, drug dealer or stupid...er sorry, liberal democrap. Gun owning freedom loving patriots are guilty until they can pile more shit on to make us more guilty.

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

Thank you dwalker...

For those people who say "I lost/sold XYZ", I'll buy some tampons specifically for you...

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Originally Posted by TTWHTD

I agree with this. Rather than the "lost them", "sold them", "hate them", "keep a throw down to give up to the searchers" responses that tends to divide us and show weakness, shouldn't the responses read more like "I have a shit ton of guns, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo, a well trained family support system that's "all in" and the willingness to defend EVERY DAMN BIT OF IT. If you keep chipping away at our rights afforded by the Constitution that OUR families have shed blood to defend (and most likely yours too) you will not walk away from this unscarred. However, should you decide to cease your attack on our country from within you and I will both simply part ways and go on about our day."

Sure seems like THAT is the united message we should be yelling from the mountaintops.

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Thank you both... I'm reminded of that adage "If there was a time to bury your guns, now is the time to dig them up... and start becoming proficient with them." Don't people realize that the 2nd is not just to restrict what the government can do, but also remind them that WE have the power to pull back on their reigns, violently if need be? "I lost my guns" sounds a lot like cowardess in the face of creeping tyranny. History is full of wonderful lessons- The Empire of Japan feared invading the US homeland because "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Guess what kids, a rifle behind every door in Anytown, USA also would force, as the OP stated JBF, to have a moment of pause before encroaching on this sacred, natural right. YMMV... But I hold my guns close and train, train, train... then for a change of pace, I train some more so that IF the time ever came, my shots would count.

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Originally Posted by TTWHTD

I agree with this. Rather than the "lost them", "sold them", "hate them", "keep a throw down to give up to the searchers" responses that tends to divide us and show weakness, shouldn't the responses read more like "I have a shit ton of guns, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo, a well trained family support system that's "all in" and the willingness to defend EVERY DAMN BIT OF IT. If you keep chipping away at our rights afforded by the Constitution that OUR families have shed blood to defend (and most likely yours too) you will not walk away from this unscarred. However, should you decide to cease your attack on our country from within you and I will both simply part ways and go on about our day."

Sure seems like THAT is the united message we should be yelling from the mountaintops.

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While I absolutely agree with you in principle, practicality is another matter. The practical facts are that the govt has shown it has no scruples about murdering it's own citizens (Waco, Ruby Ridge, 9-11 etc etc etc) and an individual is not equipped to resist on his own. When the winds of confiscation begin blowing, how is one person going to stand up and declare they are exactly the type of target these motherless liberals are looking for? Expecting them to back down and say "Oh... here's a man who stands tall and resists us... we should shamefacedly turn around and leave." is naive. That person will be shot while "resisting arrest", their assets seized, kids sold to the foster-care indoctrination machine, and the entire incident will make little more than a "domestic terrorist thwarted" byline in the news.

The only way bold-faced resistance will fly is if there's a movement large enough to take notice of, and it can unite together uniformly enough to make the bullies take pause and consider the ramifications of all out war on a law-abiding demographic of their constituency. That's going to be the challenge - coming together like that in an organized fashion.

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Originally Posted by BlasterBob

Or "they" could merely get a hold of the NRA membership list. That may just inform "them" who MIGHT have or at least had a firearm. May not be a legal maneuver but that has not bothered "them" in the past.

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