More disturbing signs of Amerika the Police State

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Originally Posted by J

Ok, KevDen, I think you know (and if you do not, ask the other LEOs on the board) that I am usually the first to strike down, and I come down hard on cop bashing on this site. But I haven't seen any here, so lets not cry wolf.

Additionally, your argument is patently false. Lets swap DUI with Terrorist...

When your family member is killed by a Terrorist, you will wonder why we aren't recording more phone calls, emails and text messages to keep them from getting away with it. None of us like these NSA taps, etc.

Additionally, the facts say that anyone who refuses to blow gets a warrant for a forcible blood draw. It says NOTHING about probable cause or reasonable suspicion. Shouldn't there at least be probable cause to get the warrant (as is required in all other warrants)? You limit it to people who are swerving, wreak of alcohol, blow a red light, you get me to agree a bunch more. But simply refusing a search (breathalyzer) is not probable cause OR reasonable suspicion, and this has been held up repeatedly at the highest levels of courts.

Just because it is a DUI and people lose family members to DUIs doesn't mean that due process and proper procedure should be followed all the same. In fact, I think that it is very concerning that you feel that a particular crime may warrant special treatment outside the limits of due process while others do not.

ETA, in your response to "I hope you are never a victim people"

I would strongly prefer to be a victim that a subject.

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I have ZERO problem with the police getting the warrant and taking the blood. do what ya gotta do officer...

Now strapping down and head locking a COMPLIANT subject to take said blood is where it crosses the line.

if the subject was resisting physically or implied they would sure strap em down and take the blood. but someone who has done nothing but verbally( and legally ) refused the tests why strap them down ? other places in GA don't seem to need to strap everyone down .. why this county ?

Whether it feels like it or not, the most effective discussions, on any subject, are when both sides actually speak with each other and relate their experiences; as opposed to shutting out the other side.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

I'm aware that you are talking about THIS video. I'm aware that they are strapping every person down in that jurisdiction.

AND...

Never mind, I'm done. Hope you're never a victim people.

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What does us thinking it is excessive have to do with being a victim? What if I have been a victim?

Here is my issue....

Let's say I'm in Gwinnitt county visiting family. I crack a beer, take a couple sips, and uncle John says hey hurley, I just remembered we need propane for the grill. Alright let me run to the store (which I wouldn't do, but we are pretending).

I get half way there, and get pulled over because uncle John forgot to replace his left brake light. Officer smells alcohol and asks me to do a roadside, "I understand your position officer, however I've been advised by my attorney to not take a roadside"

Okay hurley, would you be willing to submit to a breathalyzer? "I've also been advised to not submit to a breathalyzer". Okay hurley, unfortunately I'm going to have to place you under arrest and take you to the station (miranda and all that good stuff).

Meanwhile back at the station..... Okay hurley, you have one last opportunity to submit to a breathalyzer, and then we will obtain a warrant for a blood draw. "I'm sorry but I will not submit to a breathalyzer".

Up to this point I've been extremely polite and cooperative, and actually well under the limit, but that doesn't matter, I get the same treatment as the guy kicking and screaming.

How much sense does that make? I don't want to hear officer safety either.

Now this is all hypothetical, I wouldn't put myself in that position to begin with, I'd make the Ol lady drive me lol.

Also, would it hurt to just once in awhile acknowledge that maybe some agencies have crappy policies? It has nothing to do with bashing cops.

Glad to see some rational thought in here and open-mindedness. ;) Due process IS done in these situations. A breathalyzer is NOT done unless Probable Cause already exists to ask for a chemical test (breath or blood). It already exists to "force" mandatory draws on felony DUI's. The due process lies with the fact that probable cause exists for the arrest already and there is evidence, inside the body, that can and should be collected. The fact is, DUI arrests/cases have become an absolute court system circus. There are so many, and so many defense attorneys making a living on them, that EVERY minuscule detail of the crime is argued and beaten to a pulp. All this in the effort to keep people from being held accountable for making decisions that kill, as mentioned in the video, more American's than military conflicts and gun violence. It has become an absolute joke. So I say, good for any law enforcement entity that can find a way to make accountability more effective. Slaps on the wrist and absurd defense attorneys are the reason DUI related deaths are still an epidemic....NO accountability or consequences.

As for the strapping down in ALL cases, that doesn't show common sense. However, for people to be so horrified by it is ridiculous. This happens all the time, just usually in a hospital bed in four-point restraints rather than in a cell. Just a matter of the location shouldn't freak people out, but it does.

The only heartburn I had with this thread is that the OP labeled the recovery of evidence in a crime, by a search warrant, as "Amerika the Police State". If you want to get technical, the evidence in the crime of a DUI for which probable cause existed for a arrest, is coursing through the veins of the DUI driver. The refusal to allow it's recovery could constitute the destruction of evidence...if you really want to get semi-philosophical. In any other case outside of a DUI, whether felony or not, would allow for a search warrant to recover ANY evidence of the crime...and also punish anyone who would tamper or destroy said evidence.

Add one further. If a family member of yours was killed by a drunk driver...OR even a knife wielding lunatic for the sake of argument...would you not want Law Enforcement to collect ANY and ALL evidence linked to the crime to properly prosecute the case in the best interest of your family member/victim??

Just my .02

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Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500

Glad to see some rational thought in here and open-mindedness. ;) Due process IS done in these situations. A breathalyzer is NOT done unless Probable Cause already exists to ask for a chemical test (breath or blood). It already exists to "force" mandatory draws on felony DUI's. The due process lies with the fact that probable cause exists for the arrest already and there is evidence, inside the body, that can and should be collected. The fact is, DUI arrests/cases have become an absolute court system circus. There are so many, and so many defense attorneys making a living on them, that EVERY minuscule detail of the crime is argued and beaten to a pulp....all in the effort to get people out of being held accountable for making decisions that kill, as mentioned in the video, more American's that military conflicts and gun violence. It has become an absolute joke. So I say, good for any law enforcement entity that can find a way to make accountability more effective. Slaps on the wrist and absurd defense attorneys are the reason DUI related deaths are still an epidemic....NO accountability or consequences.

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Your honestly OK with strapping down and head locking a compliant subject down ?

the county that started the warrants does NOT do that and gets more convictions....

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Originally Posted by clublights

Your honestly OK with strapping down and head locking a compliant subject down ?

the county that started the warrants does NOT do that and gets more convictions....

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Finished my thought...probably while you were typing this...

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Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500

As for the strapping down in ALL cases, that doesn't show common sense. However, for people to be so horrified by it is ridiculous. This happens all the time, just usually in a hospital bed in four-point restraints rather than in a cell. Just a matter of the location shouldn't freak people out, but it does.

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And why is this not cause for concern?

In the case of the compliant folks, nobody was hurt (that I could tell), and I'm sure it went rather smooth, but that's not the point, it's called being demoralized.

Look, I'm not a chocolate heart by any stretch, and I think drunk drivers need the hammer, but even convicted felons (in Colorado anyway), are treated better than these folks.

Why can't they do what they do in adam's county CO ( at least 10 years ago )

I earned myself a DUI bout 10 years ago ...

I was very compliant with the Deputies and chose blood over breath ...


when the nurse came to take the blood I had two deputies flank me with tasers drawn but not aimed..

seemed like enough to keep everyone save. but again I was compliant ......if I had been an asshole I would understand being strapped down and head locked.

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Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500

Finished my thought...probably while you were typing this...

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Yup seems like that is how it worked out ....

The location doesn;t bother me jail or hospital... if the person is not being combative ... there should be no need to take those kind of steps .

feels to me the same as PIT maneuvering every car instead of bothering with the lights and siren first .