Need Help: .308 FTF

Are you setting up the dies properly? You said you were seating and crimping with the same die, not all dies do that (two and three die sets). When I have a choice I seat and crimp separately. I am not familiar with you dies but if your seater die has a screw in the top to adjust the bullet seating depth (OAL), this is how you do it. Put the case holder in the ram (if applies) then put a sized empty case in it and run it up. Screw your seater die down (with hand) tell it touches the case. Back the die off two turns and lock it down. Use the screw on top of the die to adjust seating depth (OAL). The die does not touch the case it only guides the bullet touching the bullet and seats the bullet. Use a separate crimp die.

I would try this before I went for a small base die. Let me say I don't use a small base die, but the looser you ammo is in the chamber you loose accuracy.

Firstly, thanks for your help.

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Originally Posted by Madusa

Are you setting up the dies properly? You said you were seating and crimping with the same die, not all dies do that (two and three die sets). When I have a choice I seat and crimp separately.

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Based on comments from quite a few experienced reloaders, I have abandoned the above and tried :
a) Seat, measure OAL (ensure within SAAMI specs) , crimp, remeasure OAL in separate steps
Crimp reduced to a minimal/very light crimp (just de-belling the flared neck)
b) Seat, measure OAL, no crimp.

This fixed the measurable (but not readily noticeable) bulge where the shoulder meets the body. And seemed to make things work...for a while.

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Originally Posted by Madusa

I am not familiar with you dies but if your seater die has a screw in the top to adjust the bullet seating depth (OAL), this is how you do it. Put the case holder in the ram (if applies) then put a sized empty case in it and run it up. Screw your seater die down (with hand) tell it touches the case. Back the die off two turns and lock it down. Use the screw on top of the die to adjust seating depth (OAL). The die does not touch the case it only guides the bullet touching the bullet and seats the bullet. Use a separate crimp die. .

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Did this...had a reloader friend "check" the setup as well.

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Originally Posted by Madusa

I would try this before I went for a small base die. Let me say I don't use a small base die, but the looser you ammo is in the chamber you loose accuracy.

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Right now I'm focused on getting the rifle to cycle and feed reloads consistently and refine what is needed for my reloading setup and process.
I can't disagree about less accuracy with SB dies, but with all due respect, I've got to solve the inconsistent cycling issue before addressing accuracy. (I hope you agree).

From my reading, research, and questions to other reloaders I'm led to believe the following (These are not MY opinions, but rather just a summary of the info I've collected). All just add additional variables to my equations. I'm trying to sort out the facts from fiction without buying unneeded (or used it one time and set it on a shelf) items (someone suggested I but a fiber optic inspection scope):

1) For Commercial Brass, SB resizer is not needed. One will generally wear out the brass before it expands enough for the need of a SB die

2) For Military Brass, SB dies are often needed, at least for the FIRST FL resize due to :a) Thicker base/web; b) Source is often from Auto weapons with larger/sloppy chambers that allowed the brass to stretch/bulge more than my chamber would allow

3) A case gauge , like the WILSON, should be used on each resized case to "simulate" my rifle's chamber. If it won't "chamber properly" in the WILSON gauge, it probably won't chamber and extract properly in my rifle.

4) Sometime one can avoid using SB dies and run them through a regular FL sizer a few times to get them sized properly (use lube liberally)

5) Loading for Semi's is slightly different than for bolts

6) Neck sizing only is not recommended for Semi's

7) M1A's (even non-NM versions) have a tight tolerance chamber

8) At one time, SA was letting out M1As that had poorly manufactured chambers (visible tooling marks etc.)

Could those be surplus machine gun brass? If so those are supposed to be roll sized.

Could be from autos (supplier guaranteed no particular source).

Please explain what ROLL SIZED is...I'm not familiar with the term (I heard of ROLL CRIMPED...but not ROLL SIZED)

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Originally Posted by james_bond_007

Could be from autos (supplier guaranteed no particular source).

Please explain what ROLL SIZED is...I'm not familiar with the term (I heard of ROLL CRIMPED...but not ROLL SIZED)

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Machine gun brass is very "worked" and can be way out of SAMMI spec and the case may no longer be perfectly vertical. Its not a case of just being expanded after being shot, it could be whomped. It is common for ordinary people to roll size pistol brass, but rifle brass is much more difficult.

Borrowed form another forum:
"Roll sizing is actually a more uniform way of sizing brass to ensure straight walls and proper dimensions. As the "roll" word indicates, the brass is run through a machine that rolls it between two pieces of steel that shape the entire body of brass, not just the top 75% or so as you would get with the dies that you and I would use on our reloader machines. Roll sizing is the best way to accurately and consistently size brass."


http://www.wolfbullets.com/sizer.gif

Brass has a tendency to spring back a little. If it's nato brass fired from a sloppy chamber machine gun, you can resize, forget about it for a while, and resize again when you're ready to make some rounds. Can't hurt.

Delfuego :

Thanks for posting. Nice summary of Roll Sizing.

I see that a roll sizer does a VERY good job.
Will a Small Base resizer do the job well enough ?

In other words, the equipment to roll size seems unaffordable for my purposes; but, a SB die IS affordable.

What I don't know is if a SB die is effective for what I need ...

Your welcome. I dont know the answer to that. I only know why I shouldn't buy machine gun fired brass. Steve and a few other on the forum a far more knowledgeable than me when it comes to reloading.

I would try with some totally different brass and see if you still have the same issue.

Let me know if you need some brass too, I have lots of 308, and may not be owning a 308 soon.

I'm thinking that if I can resize it (regular or SB die), and it "chambers" in the WILSON gauge, I should be "good".

Do you see anything wrong with that logic ?

Note: Just when I put a 308 Wilson Case Gauge on my Midway cart, it went out of stock....it is scheduled to arrive "yesterday". That usually means another month or so till they get one in......go figure.

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Your welcome. I dont know the answer to that. I only know why I shouldn't buy machine gun fired brass. Steve and a few other on the forum a far more knowledgeable than me when it comes to reloading.

I would try with some totally different brass and see if you still have the same issue.

Let me know if you need some brass too, I have lots of 308, and may not be owning a 308 soon.

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