Body-Cam Video Of Daniel Shaver Shooting

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Originally Posted by Jimmy

I can't crucify the shooter, either. That was a hot mess of a situation. At the moment when Shaver moved that right arm back, there's two voices expressing sounds of concern which likely influenced the shooter to act (he's taking in what he sees and what he hears).

That kid sounded scared shitless. But to say he wasn't a threat... he's not a threat until he's detained/restrained. In my mind, if you decide someone is not a threat then you run the risk of letting down your guard.

It's unfortunate. I think of my own kid who gets so discombobulated when he gets nervous or stressed, that he would fail to be able to focus well enough to comply exactly with instructions in such a situation. It chokes me up a little just thinking about it.

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Despite all Iraqis going through English as part of school, we never approached them as native speakers. Short. Sweet. To the point. "Stop" (Awgaf), Awgaf terra armee (stop or I'll shoot"), etc. Nothing complex. Stress is a language barrier. Keep it simple. No math. No science. No complex instructions or actions (simple+simple+simple in short succession= complex). Stop. Lay Down. Detain. Done.

https://youtu.be/T6xie0NfZEA

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

The shooter didn't make it to 2nd base in the fuck-fuck games, ML. He was a shitbag and got fired for other reasons later on. Let's not blue line of silence this as some stand up guy like so many of the members here, and not here, who made a split decision or can be faced with that. The situation was copulated unceremoniously. There was no reason they couldn't advance and detain. Introduction of complexity necessarily complicates the situation. Loss of control occurs when one introduces action into a situation that is not controlled by the person in charge. What do I mean? I mean playing Simon Says with someone who is not the one in control.

As other more experienced posters have said, the only reason this wasn't in the bag is because the Prosecution went too long on the ball.

And yes, his ejection port does matter because it indicates a mentality which is not conducive to a service profession. The dude wasn't some veteran street stomper. He was a 1 year cherry chump. He was a trigger happy idiot. He got his wish. I hope he can live with it, because the other guy died for it.

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Well put. I know nothing about being a cop, but sure looked like a whole lot of wrong to me.

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

Despite all Iraqis going through English as part of school, we never approached them as native speakers. Short. Sweet. To the point. "Stop" (Awgaf), Awgaf terra armee (stop or I'll shoot"), etc. Nothing complex. Stress is a language barrier. Keep it simple. No math. No science. No complex instructions or actions (simple+simple+simple in short succession= complex). Stop. Lay Down. Detain. Done.

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^This is a VERY important point. Thank you posting this. If soldiers can use techniques that are more reasonable and professional in a war setting with with non-Americans who are a much higher threat, then American citizen police officers should be able to exercise at least the same amount of prudence when dealing with American civilians. Especially one who is crawling, crying and begging for his life.

This guy was clearly NOT a threat. The call was about a possible rifle...which this guy obviously didn't have. I don't care how "amped up" the officers were when they entered the floor. They should be able to calm down as soon as they get their eyes on the actual situation at hand. If police officers are unable to use their eyes and their brains to assess a situation and instead are just running on emotions based on unconfirmed possibilities from a dispatch discription, then they should find a new job.

This officer who pulled the trigger was either too sacred or too angry to wear a badge. The dust cover points to the latter. But I also guess that he was trying to compensate for the former. Because anyone who chooses to shoot a crawling, crying, begging man instead of taking the "risk" of detaining him is a coward.

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Originally Posted by hollohas

^This is a VERY important point. Thank you posting this. If soldiers can use techniques that are more reasonable and professional in a war setting with with non-Americans who are a much higher threat, then American citizen police officers should be able to exercise at least the same amount of prudence when dealing with American civilians. Especially one who is crawling, crying and begging for his life.

This guy was clearly NOT a threat. The call was about a possible rifle...which this guy obviously didn't have. I don't care how "amped up" the officers were when they entered the floor. They should be able to calm down as soon as they get their eyes on the actual situation at hand. If police officers are unable to use their eyes and their brains to assess a situation and instead are just running on emotions based on unconfirmed possibilities from a dispatch discription, then they should find a new job.

This officer who pulled the trigger was either too sacred or too angry to wear a badge. The dust cover points to the latter. But I also guess that he was trying to compensate for the former. Because anyone who chooses to shoot a crawling, crying, begging man instead of taking the "risk" of detaining him is a coward.

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+1

Once spread out they could have been quickly handcuffed and situation over. The game playing was insane. It looked like murder to me.

Shooter should be in prision!

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Originally Posted by Ah Pook

Not being argumentative but who was giving the commands? The vid made it look like one person was in "control". Motions, in the vid, looked like the body cam was barking orders.

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The Sergeant who was to the shooters left was widely reported as the one issuing the commands. He "retired" shortly after the incident.

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Originally Posted by wctriumph

That should not have happened.

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Originally Posted by 00tec

Dont like how the situation was handled.

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Originally Posted by Drucker

No matter what it was called and tried as, that was a wrongful death.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by Irving

The guy giving directions wasn't doing a good job, at all. If, as Mark says, the guy shooting wasn't the guy giving demands, I don't understand why. I can't imagine the shame of living with such a colossal fuck-up on my conscience.

I'm not sure how anyone would have handled those stupid directions any better than that poor guy did.

I guess if in doubt, just lay there with hands visible and legs crossed.

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The guy giving directions was simply awful, there is no way on God's green earth he should have been in charge of the situation.

The shooter deserves everything awful that karma can deliver to him. His face should be on a full page with an "armed and dangerous" caption. The people in Arizona need to be aware of him, his carelessness, and his eagerness to go to the trigger.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

I believe the reason he was acquitted is multi-dimensional.

1. He was over-charged. Actions do not meet the definition of 2nd degree murder. On a lessor charge, he likely would have been convicted.

2. There were multiple procedural mistakes made by other officers.

3. The shooter was not the one issuing the commands, which were confusing.

This was not a lawful shooting, but the blame has to be spread out and the shooter was not charged with the actual crime he committed. That does not make it a legal shoot, but a bigger miscarriage of justice. Now the prosecutor is also complicit in this mess.

This will all get redone in the Civil suit and I will bet anyone a dollar to a donut, the win will be for the plaintiffs.

PS: Manslaughter in Arizona is : "Recklessly causing the death of another person"

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1. Did the DA over-charge him on purpose?

2. Those officers shouldn't be officers any more in any city in any country.

3. Agreed, they made a tough situation even worse.

I agree with your PS - ought to have been manslaughter.

I'm very pro-police but not in this situation.

The level of ignorance displayed in some of the posts in this thread is truly amazing.

That is NOT a comment on the video or the circumstances that led to the shooting. Just the ignorance on display here.