I was mugged?!?!

Sorry if my intention came across as a little bit muddled.

I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life. And if it were me vs a single knife armed mugger, the gun draw would probably be the way to go. (still, I wouldn't use the gun unless I absolutely HAD to.)

But he wasn't facing one mugger. he was facing THREE.

In my thought, I see the act of drawing a weapon against three armed thugs a priori as a good way to escalate the situation from a simple knife-point robbery into a full out gun battle.

If luck was with you, they wouldn't be carrying, but what if they were?

I think doing what BigBear did, and taking a few seconds to feel out the situation is a much safer move.

I mean what do you feel your odds of coming away from a shootout 3v1 are? That's not a chance I could care to take.

And saying "there would be three bodies in the morgue" is all two accurate. If they had guns it'd most likely be two thugs and YOU in the morgue in a situation like that.

Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just trying to provoke a little though.

Like bigbear said they had never even talked about it. The more you talk about these kind of scenarios, the more you can adequatley handle them if they ever arise.

And I'm not trying to play lawyer. Although I did minor in criminal law and have done extensive reading into colorado, nevada, and texas lethal force statutes (all places where I have lived). No-one should take my advice as law and everyone is obligated to read and UNDERSTAND those laws for themselves

Also, for a better explanation then I could provide as to NOT shooting the criminals, go back a page and read foxtrot's comment. He puts it into better words than I could.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Good time to buy right now as interest rates are still low and there's a lot of inventory on the market.

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Would love too but I'm still paying student loans, don't have a decent enough job to secure the amount needed for a purchase, etc... Gimme a few years to find a decent job in my feild, get financial life in order, etc and I'll be GTG.



Wow, I didn't think the drawing down would stir up such conflicting assumptions. I will try to clarify on my part and then you can let me know what you think. I am trained in martial arts, blackbelt and the whole speil. 3 guys I wouldn't be "too" worried about (I'd be worried but I'd give 'em a run for their money) if they are your average joe. I'd probably get my butt kicked but I garuntee you they'd remember me. 3 guys with a knife is a no-go for me. I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid. Desicion to use firearm is already a go. Now, I need to guage how intent the 3 guys are. Will they go away with a few bucks or are they glory hounds wanting to brag to their "homies"? With the comment of "what else you got", they made the desicion for me. Now, how to apply force to where I will still be safe? Get behind some sort of cover. The best I could do without drawing attention to what I was doing is semi hide behind the back quarter panel of the car. This created a barrier that would put oppenent off balance if it came to physical confrontation. At ten yards I calucalated my odds, didn't like them. It was time to draw and end the situation. Luckily I had a very observant and smart wife too. All this happened in an instant though, I did not consciously think about it.

On the legal side of things... if it came to physical violence, shoot them center mass in the front. No back, no head shots. If they only had a knife, shooting would be a hard sale unless all three jumped me.

Well played, BigBear. I have tried to think what I would have done differently in the same situation, and might have handled things a bit differently, but the end result you achieved is nothing short of optimal: Everybody gets to live another day, and 3 thugs are off the street for a while, with some serious thinking to do about their future career plans (assuming they get out of jail). If nothing else, you may have opened their eyes to how badly it COULD have gone for them, had they come up against someone with less restraint and self control. According to the Tueller examples, 21 feet is well within dangerous range for a knife wielding assailant, and in my CCW classes, we proved this using blue guns and a stopwatch. One of the instructors (by no means an elite athlete) could cover 21 fett with a rolled up magazine "knife" pretty much before anyone in the class could draw the blue gun and bring it to firing position.

Again, glad you are ok, and great job keeping your head.[Beer]

no worries iamhunter, I didn't take offense to any parts about shooting the guys because I don't want to see someone die for pulling stupid shit like this and I never stated that in any of my posts just to be clear.
I agree with foxtrot on the shooting just to shoot is not a good idea. i don't think I would convict someone in this case had I been sitting on the jury, say if bigbear had shot the guys I would not be convicting him i know that much.

It is easy to sit back now and say what you would have done and what would have happened since nobody knows unless they are in the situation. I constantly think of scenarios like this and still feel under prepared, under trained and unready but no one is truly ready for anything like this. I am still sure my gun would have been out the instant i saw that knife.

In the end all of us can learn from bigbear and how he handled the situation, understand some of us more than likely would have done it differently, and hopefully none of us is in the situation in the future. Also hopeful the morgue talks are a bit more of an adrenaline typing than actual hopes.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

According to the Tueller examples, 21 feet is well within dangerous range for a knife wielding assailant, and in my CCW classes, we proved this using blue guns and a stopwatch. One of the instructors (by no means an elite athlete) could cover 21 feet with a rolled up magazine "knife" pretty much before anyone in the class could draw the blue gun and bring it to firing position.

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I have also seen this tried it with a friend at the range and know that 20-25 yards and in is definitely time to draw in a questionable situation where your life is in danger/perceived threat for me. especially with 3 guys.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

On the legal side of things... if it came to physical violence, shoot them center mass in the front. No back, no head shots. If they only had a knife, shooting would be a hard sale unless all three jumped me.

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Just out of curiosity, why do you say it would be a hard sale if they only had a knife?

Just from my training and research/talks that is enough to consider your life in danger (and enough to take action if they would have advanced at you).

I know it is hard to say what is and what isn't and what could have been, but just curious why it would be a hard sale.

I personally see the reaction to the morgue talk as reading too far into the comments. I don't think anyone was saying they should have been shot for mugging someone, at least I never saw that comment. I think it is more of an issue of the guy wielding a knife. With the limited knowledge we have of the guy, we assume that displaying a knife is indicative of his willingness to harm someone for a few bucks. I think if this were a case of a snatch and grab purse theft, either no one would have said anything about shooting the guys, or any comments would have been clearly marked with false internet bravado. So far, all points and perspectives seem appropriate and well taken though. Great discussion. This further encourages my idea to have a sub-forum dedicated to draw/no-draw situations. Besides, those threads make the best reads.

Good Job, BigBear! I'm really glad to hear you came out of it OK. A testament to your levelheadedness and clear thinking. This is sort of like landing a plane, if you can walk away from it you were successful. Kudos to your wife, as well, she did superbly well! That was clear thinking on her part. Couldn't ask for better than that!

Hopefully the adrenaline rush wears off in a week or two.

This is four pages of why training above and beyond the average CCW requirements should be a priority for everyone carrying. I'm a blog whore and all for talking about stuff like this, but it's not a replacement for actually going out to the range regularly and also getting really good training.

I've heard of this guy up in Bailey, and know others in the Denver area if anyone is interested in advise on some good classes.

Friday, I have always been interested in shooting matches as training after the actual CCW class. What is your take on that? I've done matches, but only two. I need to do them at least monthly.