I was mugged?!?!

[BigBear]

Good time to buy right now as interest rates are still low and there's a lot of inventory on the market.

Would love too but I'm still paying student loans, don't have a decent enough job to secure the amount needed for a purchase, etc... Gimme a few years to find a decent job in my feild, get financial life in order, etc and I'll be GTG.



Wow, I didn't think the drawing down would stir up such conflicting assumptions. I will try to clarify on my part and then you can let me know what you think. I am trained in martial arts, blackbelt and the whole speil. 3 guys I wouldn't be "too" worried about (I'd be worried but I'd give 'em a run for their money) if they are your average joe. I'd probably get my butt kicked but I garuntee you they'd remember me. 3 guys with a knife is a no-go for me. I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid. Desicion to use firearm is already a go. Now, I need to guage how intent the 3 guys are. Will they go away with a few bucks or are they glory hounds wanting to brag to their "homies"? With the comment of "what else you got", they made the desicion for me. Now, how to apply force to where I will still be safe? Get behind some sort of cover. The best I could do without drawing attention to what I was doing is semi hide behind the back quarter panel of the car. This created a barrier that would put oppenent off balance if it came to physical confrontation. At ten yards I calucalated my odds, didn't like them. It was time to draw and end the situation. Luckily I had a very observant and smart wife too. All this happened in an instant though, I did not consciously think about it.

On the legal side of things... if it came to physical violence, shoot them center mass in the front. No back, no head shots. If they only had a knife, shooting would be a hard sale unless all three jumped me.

[TFOGGER]

Well played, BigBear. I have tried to think what I would have done differently in the same situation, and might have handled things a bit differently, but the end result you achieved is nothing short of optimal: Everybody gets to live another day, and 3 thugs are off the street for a while, with some serious thinking to do about their future career plans (assuming they get out of jail). If nothing else, you may have opened their eyes to how badly it COULD have gone for them, had they come up against someone with less restraint and self control. According to the Tueller examples, 21 feet is well within dangerous range for a knife wielding assailant, and in my CCW classes, we proved this using blue guns and a stopwatch. One of the instructors (by no means an elite athlete) could cover 21 fett with a rolled up magazine "knife" pretty much before anyone in the class could draw the blue gun and bring it to firing position.

Again, glad you are ok, and great job keeping your head.

[sniper7]

no worries iamhunter, I didn't take offense to any parts about shooting the guys because I don't want to see someone die for pulling stupid shit like this and I never stated that in any of my posts just to be clear.
I agree with foxtrot on the shooting just to shoot is not a good idea. i don't think I would convict someone in this case had I been sitting on the jury, say if bigbear had shot the guys I would not be convicting him i know that much.

It is easy to sit back now and say what you would have done and what would have happened since nobody knows unless they are in the situation. I constantly think of scenarios like this and still feel under prepared, under trained and unready but no one is truly ready for anything like this. I am still sure my gun would have been out the instant i saw that knife.

In the end all of us can learn from bigbear and how he handled the situation, understand some of us more than likely would have done it differently, and hopefully none of us is in the situation in the future. Also hopeful the morgue talks are a bit more of an adrenaline typing than actual hopes.

[sniper7]

According to the Tueller examples, 21 feet is well within dangerous range for a knife wielding assailant, and in my CCW classes, we proved this using blue guns and a stopwatch. One of the instructors (by no means an elite athlete) could cover 21 feet with a rolled up magazine "knife" pretty much before anyone in the class could draw the blue gun and bring it to firing position.

I have also seen this tried it with a friend at the range and know that 20-25 yards and in is definitely time to draw in a questionable situation where your life is in danger/perceived threat for me. especially with 3 guys.

[sniper7]

On the legal side of things... if it came to physical violence, shoot them center mass in the front. No back, no head shots. If they only had a knife, shooting would be a hard sale unless all three jumped me.

Just out of curiosity, why do you say it would be a hard sale if they only had a knife?

Just from my training and research/talks that is enough to consider your life in danger (and enough to take action if they would have advanced at you).

I know it is hard to say what is and what isn't and what could have been, but just curious why it would be a hard sale.

[Irving]

I personally see the reaction to the morgue talk as reading too far into the comments. I don't think anyone was saying they should have been shot for mugging someone, at least I never saw that comment. I think it is more of an issue of the guy wielding a knife. With the limited knowledge we have of the guy, we assume that displaying a knife is indicative of his willingness to harm someone for a few bucks. I think if this were a case of a snatch and grab purse theft, either no one would have said anything about shooting the guys, or any comments would have been clearly marked with false internet bravado. So far, all points and perspectives seem appropriate and well taken though. Great discussion. This further encourages my idea to have a sub-forum dedicated to draw/no-draw situations. Besides, those threads make the best reads.

[Troublco]

Good Job, BigBear! I'm really glad to hear you came out of it OK. A testament to your levelheadedness and clear thinking. This is sort of like landing a plane, if you can walk away from it you were successful. Kudos to your wife, as well, she did superbly well! That was clear thinking on her part. Couldn't ask for better than that!

Hopefully the adrenaline rush wears off in a week or two.

[SA Friday]

This is four pages of why training above and beyond the average CCW requirements should be a priority for everyone carrying. I'm a blog whore and all for talking about stuff like this, but it's not a replacement for actually going out to the range regularly and also getting really good training.

I've heard of this guy up in Bailey, and know others in the Denver area if anyone is interested in advise on some good classes.

[Irving]

Friday, I have always been interested in shooting matches as training after the actual CCW class. What is your take on that? I've done matches, but only two. I need to do them at least monthly.

[BigBear]

Just out of curiosity, why do you say it would be a hard sale if they only had a knife?

You guys can learn from a young 28 (soon to be 29 this month! I'm old!!) year old?

Sniper7, it would be a hard sale legally for me since I do posess a blackbelt. When you acheive that "rank" you get to sign a wonderful little piece of paper (which is unconstiutional) saying that you realize that your hands can now be considered a "deadly weapon" and you are responsible for your actions, blah-blah.

So, in court, I would have to defend using a gun with no "immediate threat" as pertaining to my level. With a good lawyer, one guy with a knife would not be a threat for someone like me. The other two guys would be argued out as they did not speak a word, nor showed any weapon or "aggression". I know it all sounds stupid. If I would've shot, I would be in jail, even if I was in the right because they did NOT lay a single finger on me. It sucks, but it's true.

My last incident happened years ago and actually involved a knife fight at a bar. I said I wouldn't talk about it but to deflect any questions and to satisfy curiosity I will make a brief. I was a bouncer, guy was too drunk. I threw him out. He pulled a knife. He ended up stabbing himself several times with my help. He ended up in hospital, major damage. Dad was kind enough to teach me knife fighting as a kid and the different artierial points that are best pressured, plus my martial arts training also covered basics in knife fighting/defense. Guy in hospital sued. Since he was drunk he wasn't responsible for his actions, since I was a "papered" martial artist, I WAS responsible for my actions. He won. No money, just the ruling. Apeals court threw it out, etc. etc. 7 years it's supposed to be wiped from record, still trying to clear it.

I did not want a repeat of that, especially now being married. I prolonged point of draw as long as I thought safe.