National CCW reciprocity bill clears House panel

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Originally Posted by Tweety Bird

I have read the bill. But I just don't trust 'em because once the law is in place, revisions become easy to do on the sly.

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they won't wait that long. By the time it will get to a vote, there will be at least a half dozen changes to it to appease hard votes to try to get it through the house and it simply will be another bill corrupted into something it wasn't meant to be.

Think about it... There are what five or six states with mag restrictions and the are not all the same amounts. How do you deal with this in this bill? There are at least two states with ammo restrictions too. Then there are training restrictions. So, is this bill going to address these differences? If it does, then I guarantee you it will involve restriction and not repeal. if I remember correctly, one or more states dictate that CCW guns have to be trained with and then designated the only gun they can CCW with and the serial number is on the permit and in state retained paperwork (NC if I remember right, but I could be wrong on that).

Not all states have the same CCW permit format. Will this bill address this? What will be standardized in a CCW permit to control forgery? This MUST be directive to the issuing states on CCW format. And while we are on the subject, will this standardize approval authorities? This scares me the most actually. Next thing you know all state CCW laws are null and void and this turns into a bill to make Dept of CCW offices in every state.

I just dont see this being left simplistic and non-intrusive.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

they won't wait that long. By the time it will get to a vote, there will be at least a half dozen changes to it to appease hard votes to try to get it through the house and it simply will be another bill corrupted into something it wasn't meant to be.

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They already tried amending the bill in committee and it failed. In the full House, at least, I don't think they'll be any more successful. The Senate is another problem, but I think we've got the votes to kill the thing it they are successful getting something heinous put into the bill.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

Think about it... There are what five or six states with mag restrictions and the are not all the same amounts. How do you deal with this in this bill? There are at least two states with ammo restrictions too. Then there are training restrictions. So, is this bill going to address these differences? If it does, then I guarantee you it will involve restriction and not repeal. if I remember correctly, one or more states dictate that CCW guns have to be trained with and then designated the only gun they can CCW with and the serial number is on the permit and in state retained paperwork (NC if I remember right, but I could be wrong on that).

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I know you say you read the bill, but it's clear to my reading that you will have to follow the CCW laws of the state you are in while carrying, just like you have to follow the driving laws. So if one state doesn't not permit carry while in a business that serves alcohol, you will have to honor that restriction. You're not getting a CCW in the state (like TX) so you're not required to pass their testing requirements - just like you don't have to take a driving test when you cross state lines. HR 822 says they have to honor your permit regardless of the differences in training requirements.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

Not all states have the same CCW permit format. Will this bill address this? What will be standardized in a CCW permit to control forgery? This MUST be directive to the issuing states on CCW format. And while we are on the subject, will this standardize approval authorities? This scares me the most actually. Next thing you know all state CCW laws are null and void and this turns into a bill to make Dept of CCW offices in every state.

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Not all states have the same drivers license format either. So far the bill is NOT directive. I expect, if it passes, the states will sort out standardization issues without federal help. Most states already accept other states CCW permits and there's no problems. NY, NJ, CA, MD, DC, CT, and MA will try to muck things up, but they'll still have to honor the law.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

I just don't see this being left simplistic and non-intrusive.

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Well, so far it IS simple and non-intrusive. Why not support the bill as written? Let your congress critter know how you feel and hope for the best.

Having lived in the People's Republic of Maryland, I would love to see this bill rammed up theirs and the District of Columbia's rear ends.[Beer]

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Originally Posted by Tweety Bird

Wait just a damn minute.

The only way you're going to force all 50 states to have the same gun laws would be for the Feds to mandate those laws.

Is that what you want?

If so, you'll probably be pretty happy with this bill because that's where it'll likely lead.

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States all make up their own traffic laws and not all of them are exactly alike. Obviously that isn't what I want and you would know this by reading the very first part of my post.

You guys have to quit using the DL analogy because it doesn't work. Forget the 2A for the moment; there aren't huge numbers of people and large sums of money out there trying to ban auto ownership or driving. When was the last time you saw a Brady Bunch type of organization trying to ban driving? What I'm saying here is that if there's a Fed law that requires reciprocity of conceal carry permits, there WILL be standardization because the anti-gun lobby will be pushing HARD to amend this law. And even if standardization is done amongst the states, do you really think CA or the city of Chicago are going to relax their laws? If some Fed mandate forces the standardization, do you think the laws here will remain in force, or will they get tighter?

I'm tellin' ya, this will lead to bad things. We'll just have to disagree on this issue.

You guys say what you want. I don't trust the Sewer Rats. But if this passes (doubtful), 5 or 10 years from now when Colorado has to amend its conceal carry laws to match those of CA or NY, I'll be the first to say, "I told you so."

I Fear Change!



[rofl1]

Has anyone here seen a single instance where the feds have helped us with firearms laws?

It's DOA anyways... it will never pass through the Senate. Passage in the house will be nothing more than symbolic.
But, ask yourself a couple questions:

1. Do we want to acknowledge that the federal government has the right to regulate guns and CCW in particular?
2. Do we want to further erode state's rights?

People need to make up their mind. Either we want a big federal government making all the rules and solving all our problems or we don't. I avoid states that don't let me CCW and spend my money in places that do. I read the Bill of Rights in its original intent of limiting the federal government and want the feds to stay out of state and local matters.
If they absolutely must get involved, I'd rather it be in the form of DOJ going after states and localities for infringing the 2nd... though that'd never happen under this administration.

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Originally Posted by mcantar18c

Has anyone here seen a single instance where the feds have helped us with firearms laws?

It's DOA anyways... it will never pass through the Senate. Passage in the house will be nothing more than symbolic.
But, ask yourself a couple questions:

1. Do we want to acknowledge that the federal government has the right to regulate guns and CCW in particular?
2. Do we want to further erode state's rights?

People need to make up their mind. Either we want a big federal government making all the rules and solving all our problems or we don't. I avoid states that don't let me CCW and spend my money in places that do. I read the Bill of Rights in its original intent of limiting the federal government and want the feds to stay out of state and local matters.
If they absolutely must get involved, I'd rather it be in the form of DOJ going after states and localities for infringing the 2nd... though that'd never happen under this administration.

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^^This^^

If the federal government really wanted to do something useful, they would repeal any law that infringed on 2A (or probably any law that has anything to do with firarms) and leave gun laws up to the states. I would like to see every state reciprocate CCW permits, but I do not want the federal government to mandate it.

To those who say this isn't like DL it absolutely is. It's a county issued state permit to do something. Each state sets it's own laws which you MUST obey when you're in that state but your permit is still relevant w/o any further steps. The federal government said it was imperative for each and every state to recognize other state's driving permits. The federal government doesn't mandate what is or isn't required to have said permit but most states require about the same thing. We don't have massive federal oppression of this permit to have this made uniform either.

To those who say they don't want the federal government involved and this isn't what the federal government is responsible for I disagree. Completely. You talk about states rights as if it somehow is above the individual's rights. This is EXACTLY what the federal government was created for... to protect the individual's constitutional rights against the power of the state government. This is EXACTLY what we're talking about here because it's bad enough we're required to apply for and qualify for a permit to conceal and carry a firearm. Let's brush past that fact for a moment here since it's an entirely other topic. This is a bill at the federal level that will return the INDIVIDUAL's rights back to them by saying 'Hey state, if you allow your citizens to have a CCW permit then you MUST allow those who have obtained the permit from their own state the same rights in our state when traveling to your state.' which is something some states can't seem to figure out on their own. You still can't carry within the city limits of Chicago and others who have chosen to not allow it as well as schools bars or whatever that state has set as a law so this won't change that. It's up to the individual to know what those laws are of the state they're traveling to and obey them just like operating a motor vehicle. Listen, I'm all for states rights but we're talking about individual rights that are protected by the individual and have been taken away for far too long. What is the other option if not using the federal government for what it was put in place for?

Anyone that thinks a CCW permit should be like or isn't the same as a DL. Think about all the trouble one has to go through to get a DL and Register your car. And think of the punishments that are given out if you don't comply 100%. Do you really want that for your guns? And do you see the .gov doing it any different because its guns? I don't and I don't see them changing it one bit.
If it was a national permitless CCW with no attachments I would support it. That way it would work and there would be no reason to mess with it later on.
Make it an Amendment to the constitution. Like the second one after the one barring the congress from making laws against free speech.

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Originally Posted by Jer

To those who say this isn't like DL it absolutely is. It's a county issued state permit to do something. Each state sets it's own laws which you MUST obey when you're in that state but your permit is still relevant w/o any further steps. The federal government said it was imperative for each and every state to recognize other state's driving permits. The federal government doesn't mandate what is or isn't required to have said permit but most states require about the same thing. We don't have massive federal oppression of this permit to have this made uniform either.

To those who say they don't want the federal government involved and this isn't what the federal government is responsible for I disagree. Completely. You talk about states rights as if it somehow is above the individual's rights. This is EXACTLY what the federal government was created for... to protect the individual's constitutional rights against the power of the state government. This is EXACTLY what we're talking about here because it's bad enough we're required to apply for and qualify for a permit to conceal and carry a firearm. Let's brush past that fact for a moment here since it's an entirely other topic. This is a bill at the federal level that will return the INDIVIDUAL's rights back to them by saying 'Hey state, if you allow your citizens to have a CCW permit then you MUST allow those who have obtained the permit from their own state the same rights in our state when traveling to your state.' which is something some states can't seem to figure out on their own. You still can't carry within the city limits of Chicago and others who have chosen to not allow it as well as schools bars or whatever that state has set as a law so this won't change that. It's up to the individual to know what those laws are of the state they're traveling to and obey them just like operating a motor vehicle. Listen, I'm all for states rights but we're talking about individual rights that are protected by the individual and have been taken away for far too long. What is the other option if not using the federal government for what it was put in place for?

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I am going to think on this. Really good argument Jer.