Beer with a liberal

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Because if investors are taxed on those investments, which have SEVERE RISK OF FAILING, they wont invest it and that money will sit in offshore banks and NOT be taxed, at all. Only a complete economic moron fails to understand this.
You are taxed more on income from EMPLOYMENT because there is no risk involved. You go to work, put in your hours, and take home your pay. You do not stand a chance of losing anything. If the company fails, you just move to another job, while the investor who put up the capitol for the venture loses every cent he put into it and then some.

Healthcare is the way it is due to insurance and the socialist idea that we are all "entitled" to the best healthcare possible. Bullshit. If I cant pay for a procedure then I dont get it. Period. Unlike you selfish bastards I DO NOT WANT anything I have not earned, and that includes the "best" in healthcare. You know what our heathcare system has produced? A massive deficit and an entire generation of people who cannot deal with pain, sickness, or death. And entire society that considers that there is some entitlement to a new heart, or an organ transplant, or drug rehabilitation, or a number of other things that are paid for BY ME that I dont want to pay for. Selfish bastards who see nothing wrong with paying for rehab for anyone stupid enough to do drugs. Really? EFF THAT! Those wastes of life made a conscious choice to use drugs, knowing they could become addicted and did it anyway. I however do not get the choice to choose not to pay for their rehab, or abortions, or birth control, or any one of a thousand other programs put forth by our socialist .gov . So let them die. We all die. If they are suffering, well then help them die faster, its the humane thing to do.
If YOU want to pay for these things- abortions, contraception, drug rehabilitation, organ transplants for anyone who needs one, etc. then by all means, donate to your favorite charity, use YOUR MONEY however you like, but STOP MAKING ME PAY FOR IT. _I_ just had a tooth pulled, and I payed for it out of the money I earned. We paid for all the bills for my sons birth, and all of his healthcare so far, and yeah sure we have insurance, but its because WE PAY FOR IT. Honestly I would rather have not paid for the insurance the past decade and just paid cash for my healthcare, I would have saved a crapload of money. But it is what it is.

Bottom line is we as humans are not entitled to anything. Period. And every single socialist experiment has failed in dramatic fashion, so its time to wake up and get things back on track. A person is responsible to pay his own way in this world, not to pay for the man or woman next to him. Just because you are born does not mean you deserve to live. Just because you live in America does not mean you will be as successful as the man next to you, or that you deserve all the things someone else has, and no one in this world is guaranteed anything beyond what they are capable of earnign for themselves. Harsh? Yeah, its called life, so get used to it. At some point the socialists will push too far, and when that happens the takers will be feed the earners. The only thing protecting the dregs of our society, those that live off the wealth produced by others is the generous nature of the wealthy and their inherent charitable nature. However, those that get fat off the public dole will do well to realize that those that are driven to succeed are as likely to be driven to protect that which they have earned. Take too much, push to hard, and the consequences are likely to be very harsh.

Also, the biggest travesty I have ever witnessed was my grandfather, who landed at Normandy Beach as a medical corpsman on D-Day, raised a family and lived his life asking nothing from no one, kept alive for months after a stroke left him completely debilitated, unable to speak, with no awareness of anyone in the room, existing only on drugs and machines for no other reason than the doctors could. He should have been allowed to die as a man, not kept alive only because drugs and some machines could. We all knew he wasnt coming back, and once upon a time, he would have simply gone to sleep and passed quietly in the night.

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If an investor does not want to invest because he does not want to pay taxes like every working American... so be it. I am sure someone else with brains will come along and figure out that if there is money to be made, they will invest. Losses can be written off just like any other loss. Taxing investment income the same as regular income does not change that. A loss just diminished your taxable income. Pretty common sense.

Healthcare is expense because of for profit insurance. The free market wants to make as much money as possible. Not cut costs. Regardless how can a sick person work to pay for the "free market" You still can't seem to get that fundamental flaw.

As to your grandfather, I am sorry for what happened to him. But know this, many of your political heroes treated Terry Schiavo (a person in the same state as your father) in the way you are complaining about.

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Originally Posted by nynco

If an investor does not want to invest because he does not want to pay taxes like every working American... so be it. I am sure someone else with brains will come along and figure out that if there is money to be made, they will invest. Losses can be written off just like any other loss. Taxing investment income the same as regular income does not change that. A loss just diminished your taxable income. Pretty common sense.

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No. "Writing off" a loss does nothing to help. Its insane how many people do not understand that you cannot just "write off" a loss. The more I think of it the more insane it is that those who have no idea of investing etc. are the ones who so blindly say, well just write it off. I dont invest money to write it off, I invest money to make more money. If you tax the crap out of me on those investments, then I will simply not invest.... here! Incidentally, Chinese investments are a very good yield right now..

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Originally Posted by nynco

Healthcare is expense because of for profit insurance. The free market wants to make as much money as possible. Not cut costs. Regardless how can a sick person work to pay for the "free market" You still can't seem to get that fundamental flaw.

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No, you seem to ignore the fundamental law. When insurance was something people could take or leave, and doctors were paid for in cash OR you did not receive healthcare, then costs were managable. However, once the Unions, .gov, etc. mandated that insurance was REQUIRED, then costs started to run out of control. Ask yourself why it is that the cost of generic healthcare is so high... well the drugs for one, because it costs so much to get FDA approval. Then there is the insurance required, a result of malpractice suits. And then there are the administrative costs, because the insurance, .gov regulation, etc. has become a nightmare, and the more crap we add the more healthcare goes up.

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Originally Posted by nynco

As to your grandfather, I am sorry for what happened to him. But know this, many of your political heroes treated Terry Schiavo (a person in the same state as your father) in the way you are complaining about.

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I dont have any political heroes. I do have political ideals.

Then go invest in China. Your income from that investment should be taxed exactly the same as all forms of income. Makes no difference if you invest here or abroad. That is the hole in your logic, that is unless you want to denounce your US citizenship. Which be my guest, that is your choice. I also understand investing quite fine. If you want to chose not to invest that is your choice put it into a CD or some form of savings. Those forms of income should be taxed the same as labor income too. Income is income.

I also agree that insurance based on employers has skewed the market. But those stupid precedent was put in place to preserve the "free market" that was failing in the past. Obviously it still failed. No matter how much we dance around it, the fundamental problem is a free market will not serve the needs of sick people. Hence the reason that healthcare should not be treated as a commodity. Which is what every other free nation in the world has come to as a conclusion. You are right administrative costs are a huge problem. Example having mass amounts of lawyers and claims adjusters who sole job it is to deny people care. Pretty inefficient. Up until Obamas pathetic reforms, healthcare was the only industry that had a model that based its profits off of killing people. Meaning the more people pay into the system and the more people that they deny healthcare to, the larger the profit margin. It was evil and still is. No one should make a profit by killing people.

Negative- when healthcare was a free market, rates were low. When the insurance was mandated and healthcare has become more and more socialized, the worse it has gotten. TAX MONEY SHOULD NOT BE USED TO HELP SICK PEOPLE> Get it? its THAT SIMPLE. all the rest is you dancing around that one simple issue.

Thankfully society is evolving to see that just letting people die because they are poor is no different than the dark ages. So yeah I get it.

I love sitting right in the sweet spot between truly poor and middle class. Kinda like a wealthy poor person.

Starting next year barring a career improvement, I'll go from $300 to spare a month after bills to @ or under $100 due to forcing to buy into company insurance that still leaves me with a hefty deductible for someone at my income followed by at best a 80% coverage rate. If I don't get it I end up paying more come tax time due to the mandate. So with or without I'm boned if I have a serious medical expense. But what very modest ability to save/invest/spend is going to get cut into significantly.

Thanks .gov

From the title, I though the OP was invited to the White House for brews with the POTUS....

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Because if investors are taxed on those investments, which have SEVERE RISK OF FAILING, they wont invest it and that money will sit in offshore banks and NOT be taxed, at all. Only a complete economic moron fails to understand this.

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Warren Buffett disagrees with you, and I'd not think he's an economic moron.

http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,2170543.story

If those investments have a "severe risk", who the hell is going to hand over their money?

And do the math. A increase in capital gains from 15% to 20% means that an 8% return gives 6.4% after tax instead of 6.8%. You're going to not invest because of that delta?

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Originally Posted by nynco

I worked in healthcare for over a decade. You get life saving care to stop the immediate death. Nothing else. Try to go to the ER to get cancer treatment. Not gonna happen. People tell that same old sorry story and don't understand the truth.

Even then you are making the argument for gov interference in the market.


Even then I was refering to many things. Not just healthcare. Because an Autistic kid is not going to have the skills to work a job that will pay enough to live. Heck normal Americans can not survive on a regular job. You think someone with a disability can without gov health. Not going to happen. So... what then? Just die?

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I have a good friend who in her mid-60's had breast cancer surgery. She had just lost her business and was in bankrupty and did not have health insurance. The state of Colorado paid the bill. Anyway, .gov does pay for life-saving cancer surgeries and subsequient treatment and this was pre-Obama Care. That's all.

BINGO we have a winner - basically the woman had to lose everything in her life before the state would help. Meaning just as I said 90% of America is only one illness or injury away from oblivion.