Lets get this thread back on track. Personal attacks stop now.
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Lets get this thread back on track. Personal attacks stop now.
I think an important point here is this if you look at it from the "other" perspective:Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
This same thing could just have easily been written by someone on the other side. So, yes...we have to get into their mentality. There are various ways to do it, and many are productive.Quote:
Conventional wisdom (messages) does not appeal to the vast majority of gun owners, but that is not the only reason the battle is tough. I have no problem with posting the truth on here, and most of the illustrations are true. But to attack them, as they expect, just reinforces their assertion that the pro gun-control people are part of the oppressors and they then believe their job, as protectors of the oppressed, is to resist everything we say. It is circular and illogical, but winning is also about understanding your opponents goals and tactics.
For some to say "this is the way it MUST be done in order to get our message out" is ridiculous and arrogant in the extreme. And attacking like-minded people simply because they disagree with a particular method, or choose to participate in some other way, is not only counter-productive, it's a surefire path to defeat.
Some people seem to forget that a lot of folks here have been fighting over the gun-rights issue before they were even born. This isn't some recent cause du jour that liberals just adopted. It just happens that it's an appropriate time for them to bring it back to the forefront.
This is a thread about using modern media to help try to prevent the current bills, or some of them, from passing. The first post is a call to action by Justin.Quote:
For some to say "this is the way it MUST be done in order to get our message out" is ridiculous and arrogant in the extreme. And attacking like-minded people simply because they disagree with a particular method, or choose to participate in some other way, is not only counter-productive, it's a surefire path to defeat.
There are three posters who showed up to complain that they don't like facebook, etc. Doing so is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread and counter productive. Just stay out of the thread instead of adding noise.
Showing up to complain about facebook or social media or whatever is the criticism you describe in your quote above.
The same could be said about email, phone calls, faxes, in person meetings and official testimony before the House and Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
The problem isn't with the form of media, it's with the audience.
Presumably, however, that hasn't stopped you from voicing your opposition to the bills.
The nice thing about venues like Facebook it's that they are instant and have a high degree of visibility among most of the population.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.
Any other threads in which I don't have your permission to post?
I have no argument with that whatsoever. And I fully understand the ability of some to use venues like FB and Twitter to further the agenda and that's a great thing. But doesn't it make sense that if even some of the staunchest gun-rights supporters dismiss or avoid those venues that some from the other side will, too? This is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying like Zak apparently has. If this works for you and you feel it's effective by all means, use it. But to attack others who feel more comfortable in other methods is not the way to proceed. Not all politicians against us are going to be exposed to differing opinions via only FB and Twitter. They have voicemail, email inboxes, snail-mail boxes and fax machines as well. They should all be in melt-down status from gun-rights supporters.
And we have heard repeatedly, from actual legislators, that faxes are counted and the best single chance of constituents getting "counted". Mailed letters and e-mails are the next most effective. The legislators I spoke with hardly ever look at the facebook which is typically managed by a staffer and a general "gist" of what the comments are.
Different paths are beneficial, but they are not all equal.
The message is the most important thing for them to hear and it is clear some are good at delivering the message, some at stirring the pot and some are destructive, even if they have good intentions.
The targets of propaganda are generally the people from whom the opposition gets power. So it doesn't necessarily matter if a senator reads it. If something goes viral and gets 100,000 views it's going to have a political influence.
The first waves of reaction to HB 1224-1229 were conventional lobbying with our best arguments and appeals to the politician's interests, via protests, letters, faxes, email, telephone, face to face meetings, and testimony. Justin and I have both been involved in most of those aspects.
The effort to spread propaganda via "new media" is not instead of those methods; it is in addition to.
The left has a very effective propaganda machine using all sorts of media, different kinds of messages, etc. We don't.
You won't find Justin or me criticizing the productive efforts of anyone in this fight because we need a full court press of every possible capability and facility.
Mark please don't misread my posts for advocacy via other means as an attack on your commendable face to face efforts.
I appreciate your willingness to go to Denver and speak on behalf of those of us who are chained in our cubes.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.
Didn't, no worries. Just another bump to get people to get involved. I have met a lot of people who have never been politically involved, and are now...GOOD!Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin