No it isn't. There are cases where it is justified, cases where it is necessary and even cases where society is better off for the action but that doesn't make it OK to harm someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattR
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No it isn't. There are cases where it is justified, cases where it is necessary and even cases where society is better off for the action but that doesn't make it OK to harm someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattR
.[Pop].
I have seen some video where they passed several cops while riding all chaotic and the cops did nothing. You probably rode with real bikers, while I ride sportbikes, sportbike gangs are usually a bunch of douchebags that watched biker boys and decided to imitate the movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
You have GOT to be shittin' me. That makes no sense in moral or practical terms. What's the difference between justified, necessary or OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
Probably a quibble on definition. I see OK as something I wouldn't second guess, no grey area to it.
Justified would mean legal in the eyes of the law, necessary would mean required to save life and limb, ok would mean you're happy with the way things worked out. I could see where I might be justified in using violence, and it might be necessary, but I wouldn't be ok with it(or at least the circustances that led to it, if I could somehow have avoided the necessity).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Someone translate this please. Maybe it would make more sense after a fifth of Glenlivet?Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
[beatdeadhorse]Polarizing discussion isn't it?
For the record, I'm OK with running over all the little bastards.
That would be awesome - to just sit in the car laughing and making monkey faces at the turds trying to get in - waiting for the police.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
This thread is great. It helps me weed out those who I would never do business with or go shooting with. If you blame the driver for what he did, you are an idiot. Now go stand guard at the WWII memorial like a good Obamabot.
[ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal
You will be receiving an invoice for 1 computer monitor shortly...because that post made me spit out my soda all over the damn thing. That's some funny stuff right there!
http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont...n-suv-beating/Quote:
The Manhattan DA’s office won’t press charges against one of the motorcycle thugs believed to have terrorized a driver and his family after a wild chase on the West Side Highway, and argued against prosecuting a second biker before ultimately agreeing to, sources said Wednesday.
“F—!” the biker who was charged, Christopher Cruz, 28, of Passaic, NJ, said when he was swarmed by media as he left Manhattan Criminal Court on $1,500 cash bail, charged with reckless driving and unlawful imprisonment.
Cruz was caught on video allegedly starting the entire incident by brake-checking the victim’s black Range Rover during the Sunday biker rally — supposedly so that his companion bikers could take over the highway.
NYPD brass were hot on arresting Cruz despite zero evidence he’d committed an actual assault, sources told The Post.
“We arrested [Cruz] because of pressure from [police brass] to make an arrest in this case,” a second source said.
“It was completely against [the prosecutor's] judgment. The case is week. We needed much more investigation.”
The DA’s office relented because of pressure from the NYPD and widespread publicity about the case, a second source told The Post.
A statement from the DA’s top trial prosecutor, Karen Friedman-Agnifilo, confirmed that the office was proceeding with caution in building “the strongest cases possible” against the renegade bikers.
“Prematurely charging individuals with low-level crimes does not further the goals of the investigation, and could weaken the cases we expect to bring against the perpetrators of serious crimes,” Friedman-Agnifilo said in a written statement.
The biker who won’t be charged is Allen Edwards, a 43-year-old Queens man who is allegedly caught on video banging with his fist on the rear driver’s side window of victim Alexian Lien’s rear driver’s side window with his fist. He surrendered to cops Tuesday morning — but was released from the 33rd precinct without arrest, the sources said.
The failure to press charges against Edwards angered some cops. “The DA declined to prosecute. Look at [The Post’s] front page [Tuesday]. He’s there on the motorcycle right next to [Lien] after [Lien]got his ass kicked,” an angry law enforcement source said.
Video shows a man who might be Edwards pummeling the rear window of Lien’s Range Rover, near where his infant daughter was belted into a child seat, and Lien on the ground with Edwards next to him.
A second biker, Christopher Cruz, 28, of Passaic, N.J., who brake-checked the SUV — allegedly so that the bikes could take over the road was charged with endangering the welfare of a child and reckless driving.
Modal Triggerhttp://thenypost.files.wordpress.com...ruz1.jpg?w=300Christopher Cruz in court Wednesday.
“The case is weak. It was too early to tell if he committed the crimes he was charged with. It needed much more investigation,” the second source said.
Police, meanwhile, are zeroing in on two other suspects, including the one who slashed Lien, sending him to the hospital for stitches.
“They’re trying to ID two of the guys. One of them is the main guy. He’s the one that assaulted the victim. On the video, he was wearing the chrome helmet that has a logo of a bird,” a third source said late Tuesday.
A witness told police the biker in the chrome helmet pulled Lien out of the car, threw the terrified dad to the ground and stomped on his head.
The second suspect being sought also smashed windows on the SUV, the source added.
“He’s wearing orange and he hit the window of the SUV,” the source said.
Cops have gotten photos of hundreds of license plates from bridge and tunnel cameras and are trying to identify more of the bikers, who first swarmed Lien, his wife and child on the West Side Highway in HarlemSunday about 1:30 p.m.
But some of the plates turned out to be stolen or belong to different bikes, making it tougher to ID the motorcyclists.
The chase was caught on video by a helmet camera worn by one of the bikers — who later posted it on YouTube.
Early on in the chase, as Lien sped off to escape the pack, he ran over 26-year-old biker Jeremiah Mieses of Lawrence, Mass., whose spine was crushed. He remains hospitalized in a medically induced coma.
The RR hit the bike. The RR then ran.... You have seen the video?... This much is not in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by davsel
Meanwhile the FBI is more concerned with this... http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/2/47...ndicted-in-new
The armored car company video is great. I especially like how the guy with the helmet beats on the window until the helmet falls apart.
The bike brake-checked the RR. The other cyclists then swarmed the RR at which point the RR broke through the crowd, hitting other bikes and riders. Barring more evidence, I'm seeing as much of a case for self-defense as hit-and-run. As davsel said, you're making a few assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
Apparently the Manhattan DA didn't get the same memo that the Florida DA got for prosecuting Zimmerman...
Cops have gotten photos of hundreds of license plates from bridge and tunnel cameras and are trying to identify more of the bikers, but some of the plates turned out to be stolen or belong to different bikes, making it tougher to ID the motorcyclists.
That deserves its own threadQuote:
Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy
Talked this over with the wife and we both were of the opinion that given only the film evidence from the helmet cam, if it was our family in the RR, we would have attempted to drive away as fast and far away from these idiotic criminals and that before getting boxed in would have u turned and gone back the wrong way on the freeway, 911 dispatch on speaker, handguns at the ready. Also a cow catcher would definitley improve ones chances of escape, sigh... I miss my 6x6 MRAP with mine roller and M240 up top :)
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
There are no assumptions. The RR hit people...twice. He left the scene. That is hit and run. You are both assuming I am against the RR driver. Read what I said again. If you or anybody here shoot somebody we all know we would be arrested and then after the fact, the courts (even if that is just the DA) make a determination of self defense or in this case bring charges of 'hit and run'. He should have been arrested for the hit and run, then cleared if that was warranted. The bikers, they too should be arrested, not run over like some on here think is "OK". Wow, some on here seem to forget America is a land of laws. Not judge Dredd, I saw a video...kill'em all!! If you hurt somebody, like running over them, the law gets to check what was going on. There are a lot of people out there that think anybody carrying a gun should be run over, thrown in jail, hell shot with their own gun. That is not "OK" either. NONE of us saw how this started nor can we really see what was happening in that mob. I gurantee that if somebody hurt a fellow gun owner in one of our rally's we would come together around the person or car. I doubt we would be looking friendly and I can see the exact same story being said about us. "I was surrounded by gun owners... You know they were armed!!! I ran them over to save my wife and kids." All I have said is I don't know the whole story and both sides look like they made mistakes in judgment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
So, how about that Zimmerman trial ?
Relatively admirably when in a Range Rover and their family is threatened.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
I was expecting the sarcasm emoticon or similar at the end of this, but no dice. *baffled*Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthabagah
Some people around the world are making that sorta thing their career:Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnd8Izdxfyk
Could be a very short "career".
If someone I'm with (gun owner or not) chooses to step in front of a moving vehicle to try and make them stop and gets themselves run over the last thing I'm going to do is stand in front of that vehicle and try to keep them there. This is an area where the police excel at getting the job done, especially if you have it on video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
Wow, so if one of us is hit by somebody in a car, you would not help us out from under it, much less try to stop it from continuing to crush us..... as has been reported of the guy with a broken back? The guy that initially got hit only broke an arm and was in court today. The news reported the guy with a broken back was trying to pull him out when the RR guy floored it.....and apparently your a cop??? Were you just in another video and taking this personnally??? Nice to know you have any of our backs if we were hurt. Amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3w01f
BTW... The RR was already stopped.
I can't find the video I'm looking for, but as far as people jumping in front of cars, this one is my favorite by far.
So what was it that caused the driver of the RR to think he needed to exit the situation so quickly. Surely there must be a reason he did not want to wait for 10-15-20 minutes for the police to rescue them. [fail]
I need to buy a better front bumper.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrghost
I don't believe I said any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
First off the guy that has been charged clearly caused the accident on the video. Sure maybe he didn't realize that motorcycles stop faster than an SUV but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that he was at least smart enough to realize he was going to get hit and was actually trying to cause an incident. If you believe that Cruz was riding along minding his own business when he was hit from behind by a maniac in a RR than we are so far apart on this there's no point discussing it.
I have not seen any mention that someone was pined under the vehicle or in imminent danger of being crushed. If that were the case I'd expect that the first idiot (Cruz) would have been hurt worse than he was.
While there is not enough evidence at this point to tell exactly what happened the news also reported that when the driver stopped the gang started smashing his vehicle with helmets and slashing his tires. That seems plausible given what we saw in this video and others from the same day. I also don't think it's unreasonable to believe that they were verbally and physically threatening the driver (from the reports it sounds like one of these winners stabbed him in the face after pulling him from the vehicle at the end) which caused him to panic and hit the gas. Maybe the guy with the broken back was just trying to help his friend or maybe, just maybe he was standing in front of the vehicle screaming at the driver to get out so he could fuck him up. Neither would really surprise me at this point.
I'm not a cop and I'm pretty critical of their actions at times but this is the type of incident where they shine.... Up until it turned into a gang attempting to execute some type of vigilante justice (right after the minor accident) the police could have easily handled it.
You seem to mistake having someones back and attempting to justify an idiots actions with violence. The people that had their back are the ones that stayed to try and make sure they were OK. The rest were a bunch of fucking thugs that deserved much worse than they'll get from this incident.
Completely agree, great post!Quote:
Originally Posted by th3w01f
Now I understand why they all have dash cams over there..Quote:
Originally Posted by mrghost
Yeah I need a dash cam to match my S&W...
Again, please provide citation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
Is it typical for members to display such animosity and vitriol talk over such a minor subject as this?
A. No one died ( luckily)
B. Not near important enough of an incident to cause members here to disassociate from each other
C. Everyone has their own opinion sometimes things are best left unsaid
D. Lets wait till the facts to come out.
I have allready posted on this thread about what my plan of action would be in a similiar set of circumstances but until the facts come forth lets sit back and relax and not make more enemies over this, the Anti gunners in both parties would love that.... Now where did I put my Ukulele strums kumbaya
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
From: http://www.aikenstandard.com/article...0105/131009834From: http://townhall.com/news/us/2013/10/...ation-n1714877
Prosecutors and police said Cruz was participating in a motorcycle rally speeding along Manhattan’s West Side Highway. Cruz cut in front of a black Range Rover and, still staring at its driver, slowed down so much that the rear tire of his chopper bumped the front of the SUV, they said. He got off and approached the SUV, prosecutors said
The only person criminally charged in Sunday's encounter is Christopher Cruz, who was arraigned on misdemeanor charges of reckless driving and unlawful imprisonment. Police and prosecutors said Cruz, of Passaic, N.J., was the biker who initially cut off the SUV, which then bumped his motorcycle's back tire.From: http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/tv...d-alexian-lien
The 28-year-old was charged Wednesday with reckless endangerment, reckless driving, endangering the welfare of a child and menacing. His bail was set at $1,500 cash; his attorney said Cruz even got off the motorcycle and tried to start the procedures for an accident report and that his client denies all the allegations.
He was hospitalized after the incident with minor back pain but released soon after.