Want to see how well a government run health care system works. Visit an Indian reservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
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Want to see how well a government run health care system works. Visit an Indian reservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
The key to victory is to make sure that no matter what is chosen, all paths lead to the desired outcome, at least eventually.
This preserves the illusion of choice, to pacify the unruly, while guaranteeing the triumph of the state.
Which [the public option] is equally (if not more) unsustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
Where do they get the value (used to be money) to pay for all of this? A VAT? Higher payroll/income taxes? Sure, tax "the rich" (except Dems) and watch unemployment spike. It's a zero-sum game with collectivists.
I think a lot of Bernie voters know this but mistakenly think they will get to pick winners and losers.
I don't really see a problem with it, honestly. Treating healthcare as a for-profit enterprise will only hurt the consumer, which is everyone. From the surgery costs to the drug costs, there is profit that needs to be made at every level, which drives up the cost greatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
Canada has basic medical care as single payer, with voluntary procedures (typically the most expensive procedures) not covered and subject to additional costs/coverage under private plans.
I'm going to say this now, because I know it'll be accused of me if I don't. Hillary is not to be trusted, and Bernie Sanders is living in a dream world and his plans are not fiscally feasible.
I think that the much bigger problem is that with current health "insurance," people are completely insulated from the actual price of procedures and don't/can't price shop. Voluntary medical procedures like lasik and plastic surgery are for sure run on a for profit basis and the prices have been dropping while procedures have been getting better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
I wish I could remember the website, but there is a place where you can submit a procedure you need doing, and not only do they price shop for you, but actually pay you to go to the places that are less expensive. The payment comes directly from your provider, who is enthusiastic about people not blindly spending money that mostly falls to the provider.
Hurt them how? Profit motive and market competition tends to increase quality and reduce prices. Just look at the technology market and imagine the pieces of crap you'd have and the high prices you'd pay if it weren't for competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
When it's run by the government, it won't be cheap, won't be efficient, and the "customer" value will be weighed against the tax dollars they can bring in vs. how much their care will cost. Wife's godmother lived in Canada and had cancer. They just ran her around in circles and made her wait until she died. The same thing will happen here if we let it.
That is an interesting concept. If you can find that site again, please share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Insurance isn't like car shopping. Can you ever say that you went to your insurance and said "Well this other company will do the procedure and only cost me $xxxx" and have them price match? No, it doesn't happen. Because they all work together and fix prices, or lock you in to a network of practitioners so that you can't shop around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Heard about it on NPR. I'll look for it right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Very interesting, thank you for finding that for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving