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Originally Posted by HunterCO

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

I was a huge import guy. I've owned: eight Volvos, an Eagle Talon, an Eclipse. Then I bought a Ford truck. That was good, so we bought a Lincoln SUV, then I bought a Corvette. I swore I would never own a domestic car or truck. Somewhere along the way I became a huge V-8 fan.

Our three domestic cars are the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. I haven't had a big repair (other than maintainence) in over three years.

I still drive an older Volvo ('98) as my daily/beater. It has 208k and a few issues!

Our next vehicle will be German. The Wife's wanted a BMW 5 series for some time now.

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Get in a wreck in that Navigator and the frame is toast if anything other than a VW bug going 5mph hits it you will need a frame. I have done several already. No repairs in 3 years? Why don't you tell everyone how many miles are on these vehicles? [wink]

Before I forget be sure to list all the repairs so we can each judge for our selves what is major or not major. [wink]

Last but no least what vehicles did you own before your domestics?

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Originally Posted by GearHead

A TRUE BELIEVER! Thanks for the comments, I needed a allied. My '02 F150 is still going strong w/80k and NO major work..(the sunroof motor fried) I expect 80K more before I upgrade to a new truck. The Big 3 have made huge changes to improve quality. But they started late.

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I guess that is the difference you wish for 160K my Toyota will just be broke in. I will need to look for a new truck when it hits 300K. Your F150 is lucky if it makes it 15K on a set of brakes my Tacoma has 51K still factory brakes and last oil change they still had 40% left. I have never touched that truck other than fluid and filter changes.

My mothers Camry same thing over 100K and I have never had to put a wrench to it other than fluid and filter changes and brakes. Now my father, brother and sister christ one of them is in my shop every other day for something. Thank god at least my mother listened to me.

I guess we each have our own definition of reliability. [wink] :P

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Okay. Wrong on the collision thing. My Wife was rear ended last week by a Nissan mini-truck. (guy had no license, no insurance, no English! but that's another rant..) She estimated him to be going 30-35 mph. The hitch reciever took the brunt of the impact. It scratched the rear bumper cover. I put it on the lift, and there is NO damage to the frame or undercarrige. The Nissan was DOA. I feel comfortable my Wife and Twin 3 year old daughters are in one of the biggest heaviest things on the road.

The '99 F350 powerstroke has 78k miles. I replaced my first set of front brakes at 55k. ($160) Rear brakes at 70k. ($160) Tires replaced at 36k. I've replaced the heat control knob ($6). The column mounted shifter ($60) The glow plug relay twice ($12 ea from NAPA) And the driver outside mirror twice (my mistake!) Front and Rear shocks upgraded to Bilsteins at 80k ($240). That's it. Fluids flushed at 30k and at 60k. I have a cone filter that gets cleaned every couple of oil changes.

The '99 Navigator has 89k miles. It had front brakes at 65k (when we bought it, $170) and rear brakes ($160) at 88k. I flushed fluids and replaced all filters at 65k when we bought it. It's about time again. No other repairs. Actually it needs a new set of 20" tires, that I'm not looking forward to replacing. The odometer flickers off once in a while, but I'm not worried about it.

The '99 Corvette has 41k miles. Fluids flushed, filters changed at 32k when we bought it. Tires at 36k, no other repairs needed thus far.

Imports I drove: mostly Volvo, as I own a Volvo shop, and they seem to just appear out of the blue. I have also owned a Civic, a Porsche 914, a '71 Baja Bug, a '92 Eclipse and a '93 Eagle Talon.

I stopped driving the "Import" performance cars, as I got tired of every kid stopping at a light next to me revving his car and trying to race. I still get that in the 'Vette every now and then...

Every car has its faults. I've been pretty lucky with the vehicles I own now. That being said, my friend's '01 F350 has been nothing but trouble. Replaced transmission, injectors, auto locking hubs...

My family has owned three Toyotas. My Mom's '94 Landcruiser was thought to be bulletproof for the last eight years, until it developed a bad misfire we attributed to a bad valve. It has 140k miles. My younger brother's '71 Landcruiser is a great truck, and has no issues other than a bit of smoke on startup. My Dad's old '87 4Runner was great, albeit very slow (4cyl, 22re) and never gave any problems until one of the timing chain guides broke and the chain rubbed through the front case, mixing coolant and oil. (120k miles).

You forgot to mention how difficult some Toyotas are to work on. Ever change a fuel filter in an early pickup? How about a early '90's Corolla with the fuel filter mounted low and next to the firewall? Just about impossible.

Some cars just last longer than others. To make speculations how long a car will last is just silly. Everyone takes care of their cars differently.

Some people will destroy a car no matter how well it's built. I have an uncle like that, he can go through a new Ford F series in about three years on his ranch. We call him acid-man!

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Originally Posted by Asha'man

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Originally Posted by shrapmetal

i have run 13.0 at 12psi on 91octane. this year i plan on slowly turning up the boost to about 18psi on 104octane and leaving the line at 5000rpm instead of 3000rpm.

i can't wait to see the numbers it can turn. i'm shooting for low 12s to high 11s. it gets a little squirly with the short wheel base so i'm takeing it real slow. a friend of mine put his VW in the wall at 110mph and im not looking to follow in his foot steps.

i also dynoed it at 152hp and 155lbs of tourque uncorrected. the numbers are not high compared to american standards but at 1450lbs wet i'll take it.

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Very sweet. It's all about power to weight, and it appears that you've got that in spades.

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No doubt! That's hawt! [headbang] Your '61 reminds me of a sand rail I got a ride in on the sand in Utah. It wasn't even turbocharged, but I thought I was going to crap my pants it was so scary fast!

Nice work on the '61, it's really clean.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

Okay. Wrong on the collision thing. My Wife was rear ended last week by a Nissan mini-truck. (guy had no license, no insurance, no English! but that's another rant..) She estimated him to be going 30-35 mph. The hitch reciever took the brunt of the impact. It scratched the rear bumper cover. I put it on the lift, and there is NO damage to the frame or undercarrige. The Nissan was DOA. I feel comfortable my Wife and Twin 3 year old daughters are in one of the biggest heaviest things on the road.

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It must be a figment of me and every other tech and shop owners imagination. I have only done four of them so far none of them were in bad wrecks. I will give you a hint you can't tell by looking at it. I am not a big guy and I can carry a navigator frame by myself. They are about as rugged as a pop can.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

The '99 F350 powerstroke has 78k miles. I replaced my first set of front brakes at 55k. ($160) Rear brakes at 70k. ($160) Tires replaced at 36k. I've replaced the heat control knob ($6). The column mounted shifter ($60) The glow plug relay twice ($12 ea from NAPA) And the driver outside mirror twice (my mistake!) Front and Rear shocks upgraded to Bilsteins at 80k ($240). That's it. Fluids flushed at 30k and at 60k. I have a cone filter that gets cleaned every couple of oil changes.

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I said F150 when refering to the brakes. The pads on a F150 are much smaller than the pads on my little Tacoma. They don't last long even if I put ceramics on them.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

The '99 Navigator has 89k miles. It had front brakes at 65k (when we bought it, $170) and rear brakes ($160) at 88k. I flushed fluids and replaced all filters at 65k when we bought it. It's about time again. No other repairs. Actually it needs a new set of 20" tires, that I'm not looking forward to replacing. The odometer flickers off once in a while, but I'm not worried about it.

The '99 Corvette has 41k miles. Fluids flushed, filters changed at 32k when we bought it. Tires at 36k, no other repairs needed thus far.

Imports I drove: mostly Volvo, as I own a Volvo shop, and they seem to just appear out of the blue. I have also owned a Civic, a Porsche 914, a '71 Baja Bug, a '92 Eclipse and a '93 Eagle Talon.

I stopped driving the "Import" performance cars, as I got tired of every kid stopping at a light next to me revving his car and trying to race. I still get that in the 'Vette every now and then...

Every car has its faults. I've been pretty lucky with the vehicles I own now. That being said, my friend's '01 F350 has been nothing but trouble. Replaced transmission, injectors, auto locking hubs...

My family has owned three Toyotas. My Mom's '94 Landcruiser was thought to be bulletproof for the last eight years, until it developed a bad misfire we attributed to a bad valve. It has 140k miles. My younger brother's '71 Landcruiser is a great truck, and has no issues other than a bit of smoke on startup. My Dad's old '87 4Runner was great, albeit very slow (4cyl, 22re) and never gave any problems until one of the timing chain guides broke and the chain rubbed through the front case, mixing coolant and oil. (120k miles).

You forgot to mention how difficult some Toyotas are to work on. Ever change a fuel filter in an early pickup? How about a early '90's Corolla with the fuel filter mounted low and next to the firewall? Just about impossible.

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I have changed many of them over the last 20 years and I do not find it difficult. Some cars it's easier than others but not a big deal to me. I don't work on just one car as you do I work on them all. The only thing I don't work on at my shop is most of the euro cars like BMW, Mercedes, Porche, Jaguar ect.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

Some cars just last longer than others. To make speculations how long a car will last is just silly. Everyone takes care of their cars differently.

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It's not speculation it's a fact I seen with my own eyes being a tech for the last 20 years. Yes there can and will be lemons with any car I am talking about the majority of them. There is a reason Toyota and Honda are and have been the two top rated cars for needing the least amount of repairs. They have been the top two for over ten years.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

Some people will destroy a car no matter how well it's built. I have an uncle like that, he can go through a new Ford F series in about three years on his ranch. We call him acid-man!

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I deffinately can't argue with that some people just destroy cars no matter what it is.

Jason, thanks again for the support..
Hunter, damn... you can debate. should have be a politician..
Oh, just for the record, I'll upgrade my F150 at 150k - 160k cause I want to, not cause I have to.

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

It must be a figment of me and every other tech and shop owners imagination. I have only done four of them so far none of them were in bad wrecks. I will give you a hint you can't tell by looking at it. I am not a big guy and I can carry a navigator frame by myself. They are about as rugged as a pop can.


I said F150 when refering to the brakes. The pads on a F150 are much smaller than the pads on my little Tacoma. They don't last long even if I put ceramics on them.


I have changed many of them over the last 20 years and I do not find it difficult. Some cars it's easier than others but not a big deal to me. I don't work on just one car as you do I work on them all. The only thing I don't work on at my shop is most of the euro cars like BMW, Mercedes, Porche, Jaguar ect.


It's not speculation it's a fact I seen with my own eyes being a tech for the last 20 years. Yes there can and will be lemons with any car I am talking about the majority of them. There is a reason Toyota and Honda are and have been the two top rated cars for needing the least amount of repairs. They have been the top two for over ten years.


I deffinately can't argue with that some people just destroy cars no matter what it is.

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A Navigator frame seems just as rugged as a F-series frame, as that's what it's built on, no? Why would you replace an entire frame (if that's what you're talking about), isn't that about the point a vehicle is totaled? I've replaced plenty of suspension sub-frames over the years, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. Can it not be straightened on a frame machine?

Toyota and Honda have been at the top of the heap (no pun intended) for many many years. I won't deny that, nor did I ever dispute it. In fact I reccomend Toyota and Honda cars on a daily basis. Yes, I do work on many other vehicles, but specializing in one or two makes allows us to be very selective, so we don't have to work on old junk cars. I also do a bunch of high-performance stuff as well. Oh yeah, the other make we specialize in is Honda. We're probably 80% Volvo, but we do a lot of Hondas too.


So you like your Toyota. That's fine. I'm sure you think it's a great truck. Your input will not change my opinion, as I'm sure mine won't change yours. But here goes anyway. I find them unrefined, underpowered, too little towing capacity, and too small. The Tundra (I work on four or five of these by the way) are better, but I'd still buy an F series. But that's my opinion, and it only matters to me. My F350 hauls a 32 ft. Toy Hauler up Vail pass at 65 mph. Try that in a smaller truck.

You seem to have a deep-rooted distain for domestic vehicles. That's fine. My whole point in this debate was the fact that indeed there are some folks out there who like their domestics, and have had really good luck with them. I'm not trying to start trouble here, but I was asked my opinion and I seem to be talked down to here, even though you know nothing about me.

We can agree to disagree. [wink]

No hard feelings, eh?

Variety is the spice of life.

Fun car (under slow construction) - '70 Camaro (because it was my first car), so far...500+hp 383ci, NOS Cheater, ZF-6 Speed (the good German made one), 90 Vette IRS (Dana 44), 4:10 gears, glass front end, Wilwood brakes, Hochkis springs, 1 7/8" sway bar, cage, Nascar slicks. For my adrenaline fix.

Wheelin' car - '01 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, 6" Full-Traction long arm lift kit, 33" Baja Claws, locker, crappy unibody, confusing blend of metric and american hardware. Light, goes anywhere, fits the fam for off road adventures. Just blew a head gasket BTW [dead] .

Family car - Toyota Sienna AWD. My sure-footed, reliable, fat girl. Awesome in the snow and like a C-130 when you pull out the middle seats. Fits the fam and visitors and luggage and has like 20 cup holders. Love the automatic door too when I have a kid in one hand and a bag of WalMart's finest ammo in the other.

Commuter - Honda Civic, just change the oil/filter and enjoy the 38mpg. No better commuter IMO.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

A Navigator frame seems just as rugged as a F-series frame, as that's what it's built on, no? Why would you replace an entire frame (if that's what you're talking about), isn't that about the point a vehicle is totaled? I've replaced plenty of suspension sub-frames over the years, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. Can it not be straightened on a frame machine?

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No it can not be straightened or I should say it should not be. It is a hydroformed frame and I am not going to even try to begin and explain it I don't feel like typing that much. Ford will even tell you that it needs to be replaced. Understand that GM, Toyota, Chrysler and many others also use hydroform frames but they don't have the problems of the navigator. For 2007 Ford re-designed the navigator frame they claim it is for other reasons but me as well as the rest of the shops who have replaced frame after frame know the real reason. [wink]

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

Toyota and Honda have been at the top of the heap (no pun intended) for many many years. I won't deny that, nor did I ever dispute it. In fact I reccomend Toyota and Honda cars on a daily basis. Yes, I do work on many other vehicles, but specializing in one or two makes allows us to be very selective, so we don't have to work on old junk cars. I also do a bunch of high-performance stuff as well. Oh yeah, the other make we specialize in is Honda. We're probably 80% Volvo, but we do a lot of Hondas too.


So you like your Toyota. That's fine. I'm sure you think it's a great truck. Your input will not change my opinion, as I'm sure mine won't change yours. But here goes anyway. I find them unrefined, underpowered, too little towing capacity, and too small. The Tundra (I work on four or five of these by the way) are better, but I'd still buy an F series. But that's my opinion, and it only matters to me. My F350 hauls a 32 ft. Toy Hauler up Vail pass at 65 mph. Try that in a smaller truck.

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Hence why I said the only American vehicle I would own would be a full size truck. If you need something to pull a 32 ft. trailer you have no choice. America has the market cornered as far as full size trucks that can pull a house.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

You seem to have a deep-rooted distain for domestic vehicles. That's fine. My whole point in this debate was the fact that indeed there are some folks out there who like their domestics, and have had really good luck with them. I'm not trying to start trouble here, but I was asked my opinion and I seem to be talked down to here, even though you know nothing about me.

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Wrong as I said in my earlier posts to each their own I have no problem with anybody owning anything they want. I just was dispelling two myths #1 American cars are American made is a fallacy. #2 American cars are just as dependable as foreign cars another fallacy. This entire thread came to be because MrWill is looking for a car to drive the hell out of for work. Out of the choices he gave me and several others said get the Subaru. (This was in another thread)

I have a Harley it would be like me saying that my Harley was more dependable and had more power than a rice bike. That would be a complete lie although I would never in a million years take a rice bike over my Harley. It vibrates leaks oil no matter how damn hard I try to stop it. Because of the vibration parts tend to fall off going down the road sometimes LMAO [abused] . It is my choice and I will never park my A$$ on any bike ever again that is not a Harley. The point I am making is I will also not try to BS people and say it is more dependable or has more power than a rice bike.

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Originally Posted by JasonFRC

We can agree to disagree. [wink]

No hard feelings, eh?

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This is the internet and no there is no hard feelings I am sure we will meet at some point and shoot together. So get your A$$ to a shoot already. Unless you already have and I just didn't know it... [blackeye] [wink]

I didn't realize the Nav. frame was Hydroformed, I've read about the process, (I own a 'Vette with a hydroformed frame.) You are correct sir, I believe they cannont be straightened in a conventional manner.

Learn something new every day.

Funny you mentioned the Harley thing. I spent my childhood on the back of my Dad's '80 Lowrider (AMF junk!) and I swear that thing just dropped parts idling in the driveway!

Nope, I've never met you, but I'd like to. We seem to have more in common than we realize.

[beer]

I do indeed need to make an effort to get out to a shoot. I have a new (to me) M1 Garand I'm dying to get some trigger time on. I shoot once a month for a Service Rifle match at the Golden Gun Club, and we're trying to sell our house now, so time's a bit precious. I will make a concerted effort for the next one.

Hey Gearhead, sorry for blatantly hijacking your thread about your new avatar.

I do like it. :mrgreen:

I don't think I even talked about the avatar. That was just a side note.. I started this to flame imports.

Troublemaker.

[poke]

:mrgreen: