Great article about 3rd party voting.

Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.

You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this-

Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.

Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy

Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion.

But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now.

Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot.

Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done.

As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.

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Originally Posted by ronaldrwl

What I don't understand is why a Libertarian is running in a Republican primary anyways? He's not a Republican. So get the muck out of our business.

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He is doing what so many of you begged for: he is changing the party from within. Too bad the Republican Party changed the rules after he won enough states to get on the ballot... But lets not stir those embers back up...

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Originally Posted by ronaldrwl

What I don't understand is why a Libertarian is running in a Republican primary anyways? He's not a Republican. So get the muck out of our business.

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So which is it? Enact real change from the inside or get out of our business and act like a sniveling three year old by running in a 3rd party? Now I'm really cornfused. Seems that a good man who isn't in the pockets of big corporations can't get a fair shot in the freest nation in the world... the land of opportunity.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.

You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this-

Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.

Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy

Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion.

But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now.

Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot.

Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done.

As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.

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Typical 'RP can't do ANYTHING in office but BO can ruin our country!' speak.

Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.

Dont worry, I will wait..



On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.

Dont worry, I will wait..



On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.

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Agreed.

In order for things to happen groups of people need to come to an agreement. A 3rd party president will not be able to build this consensus simply because he does not know how.

The changes that have occured under the Obama administration have come about becuause many citizens, the media, congress, and cabinent members all agreed to them. A third party won't garner this kind of support.

We can go into inclusive (D) and (R) vs exclusive (3rd) but I've already covered that topic in a different post.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.

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Ron Paul in fact DID get enough votes to be on the ballot. He won more than enough states to be in the Primary, then the Republican party changed the rules by almost doubling the number of states needed to some arbitrary number that was conveniently one more than Ron Paul won.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this- My responses in RED.

Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.
Withdrew? Where are you getting this garbage from?

Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy

Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion. Very Scary? Do YOU understand his methodology? I don't think so! He is obviously not still running for president anyway, so whatever argument you are trying to make here is moot.

But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now. How would the country be worse off than it is now if nothing was done? "Doing nothing" would have America coasting off the cliff. Currently, the driver has his foot pressed hard on the accelerator and we are going straight over the edge a lot quicker than you think. Not making the situation worse if definitely something good in my book.

Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot. No respect among his peers? No leverage? How did he just pass his "Audit the Fed" bill in the House (H.R. 459) with a veto-proof 327-98 vote? Audit the Fed is the most anti-big-government bill in decades. It calls for transparency and calls out the federal government on its bad practices with American money. S. 202 is currently waiting to be scheduled in the Senate.

Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done. Again, you're just blowing smoke.

As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.

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I certainly didn't say if can't be done. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes you look stupid.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Typical 'RP can't do ANYTHING in office but BO can ruin our country!' speak.

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There are democrats, who support Obama, in Congress. Last time I checked, we really haven't elected any libertarians to any congressional seats. So yes, Obama CAN ruin our country, because he has the backing of the dems. Paul can't do diddly because the Libertarians have alienated people for the last few years, and neither party is likely to back him.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.

Dont worry, I will wait..

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No need to wait long...

Let's start with the one true power a president has... Presidential Veto. You say he can't get anything done but what he CAN do is veto stuff that keeps taking our constitutional rights away that the current dip shits keep signing into law. NDAA, SOPA, The Patriot Act... I can go on but honestly vetoing any one of those by itself would have been worth having RP in office.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.

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Yeah, he'll have lots of support from a Republican majority congress.

You don't think that having the first ever president that wasn't R or D would enact change at every level? You don't think the D's and R's would be forced to look at how bad they have gotten to lose the majority of the nation? And I'm the one blind to reality.

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Originally Posted by Ridge

Personally I'm fucking tired of being told every 4 years that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN US HISTORY! WE HAVE TO STOP THE TREND AND REVERSE IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

Every goddamn time, it's the most important election ever. And every goddamn time, the GOP puts forth a shit candidate. And every time we resolve to hold our noses and vote for him even though we don't like him, because the alternative could be worse. And we resolve to do better next time. And then the next time comes and its the same goddamned story.

Fuck the two party system and fuck it's stranglehold on America. We get to choose between progressive authoritarians and religious authoritarians. Fuck it. Might as well write in a cartoon character. It'll have the same effect.

Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.

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Well said my man. Two party system needs to end.