While the "Fiscal Cliff" looms..............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nynco

Soc Securtity is not paid for by general taxes. It is not an entitlement.

---

Sophistry. You are definitely splitting hairs if you are trying to argue that.

If you want, entitlements + SS are the biggest group of items on the budget.

Regardless, I'm totally fine with across-the-board cuts to everything, in the interest of avoiding seriously bad shit down the line.

Edit: Also, unless the pledge has legal power (it doesn't,) it doesn't violate the constitution. A senator or congressman can jaw and sign private, unenforceable agreements all they want, if they don't have the force of law then they have no legal standing, and if they have no legal standing then its not a violation of the constitution since they can just change their minds at any time.

Stop being dumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nynco

Soc Securtity is not paid for by general taxes. It is not an entitlement.

---

Keep telling yourself that.

SS is not an entitlement. The population paid into that with a specific tax that was earmarked just for that. What congress did was steal that money and now they want to permanently steal it from people by cutting it. All Americans paid into that, it is not an entitlement. You want to cut something cut congresses benefits first. Soc Security would be viable for ever if we lifted the cap and taxed everyone at the same rate not just hitting the middle class alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nynco

SS is not an entitlement. The population paid into that with a specific tax that was earmarked just for that. What congress did was steal that money and now they want to permanently steal it from people by cutting it. All Americans paid into that, it is not an entitlement. You want to cut something cut congresses benefits first. Soc Security would be viable for ever if we lifted the cap and taxed everyone at the same rate not just hitting the middle class alone.

---

I can't have a discussion with a person that is not oriented to reality.

Here are the relevant facts:

1. There are no sustainable tax rates that would balance the budget, even if you cut the military 100%, given the arc of SS/Medicare/Medicaid. Cuts outside of here buy you time, but I assume we are trying to fix it and not kick the can down the road.
2. If every congresscritter, senator, and cabinet member/the pres made $0/year, it would not be a drop in the bucket.

These are the facts. They are cold and hard, and unforgiving of people of any political bent that wish it were otherwise.

Edit: I'm not shedding any tears since I've grown up in the generation where people understand that we're not getting any SS benefits one way or another, but I can understand if it's frustrating that a fund made to sustain SS has been robbed and now the program is unsustainable. I'm not sure that it would be even with the fund invested conservatively, but hey. It sucks. But that is how things are, and we must deal with it and not how we wish it was.

Here is the relevant fact that you are not acknowledging.... how is Soc Sec paid for? Is it paid for out of the general fund? NO it is paid for out of the payroll tax which makes it NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. It is paid for by citizens directly into that fund. Congress stole the money and now they want to make cuts so they don't have to pay it back.

Those are facts ones that you refuse to acknowledge.

Also you saying that you will never expect to be paid for the money you paid into that is saying that you are OK with congress stealing your money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nynco

Here is the relevant fact that you are not acknowledging.... how is Soc Sec paid for? Is it paid for out of the general fund? NO it is paid for out of the payroll tax which makes it NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. It is paid for by citizens directly into that fund. Congress stole the money and now they want to make cuts so they don't have to pay it back.

Those are facts ones that you refuse to acknowledge.

Also you saying that you will never expect to be paid for the money you paid into that is saying that you are OK with congress stealing your money.

---

Congress steals my money all the time. I'm kind of used to it.

A sad reality

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharpienads

What don't you get about taking a pledge not to raise taxes does not violate the oath they took?

And your statement about the military being the largest expenditure is false. At least according to the CBO.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42636

---

Call me crazy, but I don't think Food Stamps are a "mandatory" expense...

Nynco, SS has become an entitlement because it is paying out more than it takes in. It is a ponzi scheme and we all know it. The chart clearly shows that...Social taxes brought in $819 billion in 2011 and over $1.2 trillion was paid out on SS and Medicare.

I know this country was founded with deficit spending, but we were at war to gain our freedom. That's a little different than deficit spending to provide food stamps, wind turbines and health care. (obviously there are a lot more areas that I think our government shouldn't be spending but they are too numerous to list.) That entire section of the chart listed as "discretionary non-defense spending" should be ZERO. (Expect the veteran's benefits part which should be considered "mandatory spending".) Everything else that falls in that category is the responsibility of the states, charity or private industry.

entitlements [shithitsfan]cut them to the bone and let's get to work

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollohas

Call me crazy, but I don't think Food Stamps are a "mandatory" expense...

Nynco, SS has become an entitlement because it is paying out more than it takes in. It is a ponzi scheme and we all know it. The chart clearly shows that...Social taxes brought in $819 billion in 2011 and over $1.2 trillion was paid out on SS and Medicare.

I know this country was founded with deficit spending, but we were at war to gain our freedom. That's a little different than deficit spending to provide food stamps, wind turbines and health care. (obviously there are a lot more areas that I think our government shouldn't be spending but they are too numerous to list.) That entire section of the chart listed as "discretionary non-defense spending" should be ZERO. (Expect the veteran's benefits part which should be considered "mandatory spending".) Everything else that falls in that category is the responsibility of the states, charity or private industry.

---

Hallohas, spending more than it takes in would not be an issue if the Gov had not stolen the money out of the fund starting in the Reagan years. The interest on that money should more than pay for the baby boomer bulge. Which once that has passed the program will be solvent for a very long time. Discretionary funding does more than you understand. NASA falls under that, so does the national high way system. Those two things have more than paid off in economic benefits than their cost. I want efficient gov not ideological knee jerk hate for gov and slashing just to slash.