Son's attendance at a concealed course uncovered these "facts" I was not aware of:

You cannot carry in the State of Colorado:
*in an elevator
*on an escalator
*in a post office or any building where a federal employee works, including anywhere on most indian reservations
*on an RTD bus
*you can't carry a gun into a bar (but if food is served and 50% or more of the sales are food it's ok)
*you cannot carry in certain portions of the national forest
*if you take any prescription drugs you cannot carry

If you don't have a permit you cannot carry a gun in the car unless it's exposed?

I have a ccw and some of these facts were surprising to me. Help me out here, I don't want to break any laws by using the escalator at the mall.
Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bczandm

You cannot carry in the State of Colorado:
*in an elevator
*on an escalator
*in a post office or any building where a federal employee works, including anywhere on most indian reservations
*on an RTD bus
*you can't carry a gun into a bar (but if food is served and 50% or more of the sales are food it's ok)
*you cannot carry in certain portions of the national forest
*if you take any prescription drugs you cannot carry

If you don't have a permit you cannot carry a gun in the car unless it's exposed?

I have a ccw and some of these facts were surprising to me. Help me out here, I don't want to break any laws by using the escalator at the mall.
Bob

---

unsure about any of the others but the car one is bs, I do know that for a fact.

• It is unlawful to carry a firearm concealed on or about one's person without a permit, except for a person in their dwelling, place of business, or on property owned or controlled by him or her.
• A permit is not required to carry a handgun where carrying firearms is legal, if the handgun is not concealed.
• A handgun is not considered concealed if it is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who is carrying it for a legal use, or the handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.

• Exempt from the requirement of a permit to carry a concealed handgun are peace officers (active and retired) of Colorado, probation officers, law enforcement officers employed by jurisdiction outside the state, so long as the employing jurisdiction exempts peace officers employed by jurisdictions within Colorado from any concealed weapons laws in effect in those jurisdictions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bczandm

You cannot carry in the State of Colorado:
*in an elevator
*on an escalator
*in a post office or any building where a federal employee works, including anywhere on most indian reservations
*on an RTD bus
*you can't carry a gun into a bar (but if food is served and 50% or more of the sales are food it's ok)
*you cannot carry in certain portions of the national forest
*if you take any prescription drugs you cannot carry

If you don't have a permit you cannot carry a gun in the car unless it's exposed?

I have a ccw and some of these facts were surprising to me. Help me out here, I don't want to break any laws by using the escalator at the mall.
Bob

---

Most of that sounds wrong.

Quote:

---

s it Legal to Carry a Weapon in Colorado National Forests?

While visiting National Forests in Colorado, you may carry a weapon. However, in addition to state laws, you must comply with Federal Regulations pertaining to the use of a firearm on National Forest System lands.

A firearm may not be discharged in the following National Forest areas:
Within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site, or occupied area; or
Across or on a Forest Development road or an adjacent body of water, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result of such discharge; or
Into or within any cave. [36 CFR 261.10 (d)]
Some forest or districts have additional restrictions on discharging a firearm. You are advised to check with the authorities in the areas you will be visiting.

---

Yeah, most of that sounds like BS.

The Federal property one is very important!!! Post office, justice building etc. The rest.. not true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey

The Federal property one is very important!!! Post office, justice building etc. The rest.. not true.

---

This ^^^ and where did your son take his class, so we know who is spewing misinformation?

he went to www.allamericanconcealedcarry.com and the items above are listed in black and white in the course materials my son (and my wife) brought home.

I'd ask for my money back.

Spend a few minutes reading C.R.S. and educate yourself. Your permit=YOUR responsibility to know the laws.

It's a case of you get what you pay for... $49 for a CCW class?

I'm no proponent of mandatory training but if you're going to get it, get it through someone that knows what they're talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ah Pook

I'd ask for my money back.

---

Me too.

Ranger Stations are considered federal property. You can now conceal carry in RMNP, for example, but you can't legally go in the visitor centers or ranger stations with your firearm.

"Any place a federal employee works" is false, it has to be a federal structure.

Sounds like they need to update there course pack

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blacklabel

It's a case of you get what you pay for... $49 for a CCW class?

I'm no proponent of mandatory training but if you're going to get it, get it through someone that knows what they're talking about.

---

Yep, this^^

You really do get what you pay for. I would ask for a refund and if your interested you are welcome to have your son and wife attend one of our classes and they can take a good course

I did not know about the post office issue, but I don't thing I'v been in a post office in years. I'll have to read up on the federal property issues. Thanks for everyones input.

You sure this wasn't a part of a multiple choice test? Sure is a lot of misinformation in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blacklabel

It's a case of you get what you pay for... $49 for a CCW class?

I'm no proponent of mandatory training but if you're going to get it, get it through someone that knows what they're talking about.

---

Ahh shit... thats about what I payed for JIM to teach his class. I knew there was something off about him... Must be all the tattoos! [ROFL2]

As others have already said almost all of that is incorrect.

The fellow who taught the class responded with many answers and most seemed very reasonable. I'll get his permission first, then post the answers here.
bob

ill be interested to see those

"Reasonable answers" to wrong statements of the law ... that should be amusing.

The class instructor responsed with what appears to be very good answers:

These are wonderful questions! Let me address these issues, one at a time:


1. *on an elevator, *on an escalator, *on an RTD bus:

CRS 18-9-118 says: “A person commits a class 6 felony if, without legal authority, he has any loaded firearm or explosive or incendiary device, as defined in section 9-7-103, C.R.S., in his possession in, or carries, brings, or causes to be carried or brought any of such items into, any facility of public transportation, as defined in section 18-9-115 (4).” Public elevators, escalators, buses, trains, and other forms of public transportation are all affected by this - CRS 18-9-115 (3).


We talked to an attorney about this. As far as we know, no court that has ruled that a Concealed Handgun Permit constitutes “legal authority”. Since this has not been tested in court, it may subject permit holders to arrest, prosecution, and conviction. For this reason, it is included on the list of prohibited places.

================================================== =========

2. *in a post office or any building where a federal employee works.

“Possession of firearms is prohibited in any building ... where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.” - 18 USC § 930 (a), (g) The statute says it all.

================================================== =========

3. * Indian reservations:

Reservations are effectively considered foreign land by our Federal government. You must follow the laws of each reservation, and most prohibit concealed carry.

================================================== =========

4. *you can't carry a gun into a bar.

Carrying a gun into a bar in Colorado subjects you to arrest, prosecution, and conviction under public nuisance laws. For this reason, bars are included in the list of prohibited places.

================================================== ==========

5. *You cannot carry in certain portions of the National Forest.

The Forest Service regularly designates, and often physically posts, certain areas of the National Forest as being off limits for firearms. You are prohibited from carrying a gun in these places.


Furthermore, firearms may not be discharged in the following National Forest areas: Within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site, or occupied area; or across or on a Forest Development road or an adjacent body of water, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result of such discharge; or into or within any cave. [36 CFR 261.10 (d)].

================================================== ============

6. *If you take any prescription drugs you cannot carry.

Bob didn't hear this: In class, we expounded on this by saying “you must talk to a lawyer before carrying any gun.” We also said “it is your responsibility to research and comply with the laws about concealed carry.” Prescription drugs fall into this category. Obviously, not every prescription drug forbids you from carrying a gun, but some do. If you are using prescription drugs, you must consult competent professionals to insure that you are in compliance with the law.

================================================== ============

7. *If you don't have a permit you cannot carry a gun in the car unless it's exposed?

This topic was discussed at great length in class, and the law on this is not simple. We discussed, for example, the multiple laws that prohibit you from having a gun in your car in Colorado unless you have a “proper” permit. We find that many people, including county sheriffs, don't understand this.


a) For one thing, carrying a gun in your car without a permit is illegal in multiple Colorado cities.
b) For another thing, it is a federal firearms violation to have a gun in your car within 1000 feet of any K-12 Public, private, or parochial school in Colorado school unless you have a “proper” permit, or fall into an exception. In other states, it is illegal even if you DO have a permit, and this poses a huge problem for carry outside the state. This was discussed extensively in class!

All students were assigned homework to read and that homework included reading, and learning, these federal laws for themselves, so they both understand the federal law, and know its exceptions.

================================================== ===========

Instructors, lawyers, and county sheriffs should know these laws, but many don’t even realize many of these laws exist.


I would like to offer Bob (whoever he is), a free class if he simply promises to report the results back to the AR-15 forum.
If you know Bob, tell him his free class is awaiting. Simply send us an email, and he can see for himself the high quality of our $49 course.
Great instruction at a great price!
- Don
All American Concealed Carry (r)

1,4,5,6 and 7 are not correct statements of the law.

And in fact, 7 is the worst misstatement of the many misstatements.

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite.../1251594549010

What are Colorado's laws concerning firearms?

Colorado allows a person to carry a firearm in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, if its use is for lawful protection of such person or another's person or property. [C.R.S. 18-12-105(2)] Colorado law also allows a person to possess a handgun in a dwelling, place of business, or automobile. However, you cannot carry the weapon concealed on or about your person while transporting it into your home, business, hotel room, etc. Local jurisdictions may not enact laws that restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon. [C.R.S. 18-12-105.6] The Act permits the nationwide carrying of concealed handguns by qualified current and retired law enforcement officers and amends the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Pub. L. 90-618, 82 Stat. 1213) to exempt qualified current and retired law enforcement officers from state and local laws prohibiting the carry of concealed firearms.





thats off the states website conceald carry in your car is a-ok holy shit i dont even understand how this guy could be debating that

edit: what state is it illegal fore a ccw holder to carry in there car???

edit-edit what qualifications does one need to have to teach a ccw permit class?

Wow, this guy very misinformed and I would be ferrous at the response the only one that is accurate is that you can NOT carry in a post office...so..I guess 1 out of 7 aint bad. He even has a condescending tone to his reply.

Even free, this class is not worth it.

I need to correct myself, he is also correct, you can not have explosives in an elevator..that being said a firearm, (possessed by a lawfully armed citizen with a current CCW) is NOT an 'explosive'

2, 3, and 5 are correct. 6 is somewhat correct... it is true if it is a narcotic, on any federal land (btw, the same applies to alcohol on federal land).

From CRS 18-9-115
(3) "Public conveyance" includes a train, airplane, bus, truck, car, boat, tramway, gondola, lift, elevator, escalator, or other device intended, designed, adapted, and used for the public carriage of persons or property.

(4) "Facility of public transportation" includes a public conveyance and any area, structure, or device which is designed, adapted, and used to support, guide, control, permit, or facilitate the movement, starting, stopping, takeoff, landing, or servicing of a public conveyance or the loading or unloading of passengers or goods.

18-9-118. Firearms, explosives, or incendiary devices in facilities of public transportation
A person commits a class 6 felony if, without legal authority, he has any loaded firearm or explosive or incendiary device, as defined in section 9-7-103, C.R.S., in his possession in, or carries, brings, or causes to be carried or brought any of such items into, any facility of public transportation, as defined in section 18-9-115 (4).

Oddly enough, one of these checks out. I don't know of a cop that would ever even dream of charging somone with this BS though. lmao. That being said...
What are these "public nuisance laws" he's referring to?

J will be along soon with the facts, Jack!! [Awesom]

Wow. If the instructor is SO wrong on the law, just imagine how flawed everything else he taught was. This is the kind of junk that really should prevent someone from teaching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CRS 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

---

I don't see elevators or RTD in that CRS.

Time for my two cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bczandm

You cannot carry in the State of Colorado:
*in an elevator Not true
*on an escalator Not true
*in a post office or any building where a federal employee works, including anywhere on most indian reservation. Pretty much true, though the law does not read like this. It's: federal building, k12 (in your car is ok), or metal detectors present.
*on an RTD bus I'm fairly certain this is not true. But not 100% certain.
*you can't carry a gun into a bar (but if food is served and 50% or more of the sales are food it's ok) While true in other states, not true in Colorado.
*you cannot carry in certain portions of the national forest Not true in general.
*if you take any prescription drugs you cannot carry Not true.

If you don't have a permit you cannot carry a gun in the car unless it's exposed? Not true.

I have a ccw and some of these facts were surprising to me. Help me out here, I don't want to break any laws by using the escalator at the mall.
Bob

---

I suggest the "Instructor" update the web page

• We believe … in continuous research. We constantly update and improve our classes.
  
• We believe … new research can not only protect your family physically, but shield you from arrest, prosecution, lawsuits, criminal reprisals, and post-traumatic stress.
• We believe … you should leave with more than just a diploma! You should leave with peace of mind, and with knowledge that can save your life

Almost every other instructor here, has already voiced their "concerns" and some have posted CRS info. My issue is the highlighted ones. ESPECIALLY Shielding you from LAWSUITS.
We all (hopefully) know it's going to cost you an easy $20K [easy] IF you need to use deadly force to Stop a THREAT.
Saying their class can shield you from a lawsuit, especially in today's Litigious Society is ludicrous at best. Irresponsible across the board.
NO ONE can "Shield" you from anything. We as instructors can only hope our "instruction" will get you to practice more, seek more classes and knowledge, get you more involved than you are now with firearms. PLUS make you more aware of your surroundings, have multiple plans of action for Home, Work and anywhere else you may be.

FWIW: With such an extensive web site I see nothing about the instructor himself, or did i pass that info by?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Wow. If the instructor is SO wrong on the law, just imagine how flawed everything else he taught was. This is the kind of junk that really should prevent someone from teaching.

---

Seems like a standardized (or somewhat) curriculum is not such a bad thing. My CCW class was a joke, but nothing like this garbage. I do believe that range instruction should be necessary. You guys may not need it, but most do...

I have been asked to come in to talk to a few prosecutors about students that have taken my CCW course over the years. In one case, the prosecutor was seeking to use the course to hold the person to a higher standard than the law required...did not work and I believe my knowledge of the law and figuring out what he was trying to do benefited this past student. In the other cases, it seemed like the Prosecutor was just dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's" and it was no big deal. Very few instructors have been endorsed as an expert in a legal or civil trial and most would probably be used against their students as opposed to in support of their actions. So I agree with Jim's assessment in post #33.

Just wow

Basically, the elevator, escalator, RTD bus part is about public transportation/conveyance which some argue is illegal to bring firearms. BUT concealed is concealed!!

My offer still stands if you would like your son and wife to attend our class we will be sure to educate them as best we can and get them pointed in the correct direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spleify

My offer still stands if you would like your son and wife to attend our class we will be sure to educate them as best we can and get them pointed in the correct direction.

---

Had my CCW since the 1990's. Have taken a couple of "gratis" refresher courses from both active LE and others RKI's.Checked the www.allamericanconcealedcarry.com web site, and the big missing item is a bio of the instructors credentials.My guess is they don't really have a strong set of credentials except for "NRA Pistol Instructor" which takes the effort of fogging a mirror and paying a fee.Go take a good course, FWIW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RANGERRON72

Had my CCW since the 1990's. Have taken a couple of "gratis" refresher courses from both active LE and others RKI's.Checked the www.allamericanconcealedcarry.com web site, and the big missing item is a bio of the instructors credentials.My guess is they don't really have a strong set of credentials except for "NRA Pistol Instructor" which takes the effort of fogging a mirror and paying a fee.Go take a good course, FWIW.

---

I mentioned the lack of a BIO. However an NRA Instructor certificate [ONLY] does not make said person less knowledgeable than JOHN Wayne All Star firearms honcho. What separates some instructors is How they "teach / Instruct" the student.
Some straight talk you , while others spend 50-60% of their course telling "stories" of "How they stopped" "When i was a Sheriff" "I remember one time while i was patrolling" Etc.
ONE war story is ok, providing it's relevant to a CCW, using a CCW class for you own personal bio lecture is not.

My concern is for all the WE UPDATE'S this course has, the complete omission for the Instructors Bio, is a concern. Give me, the potential student some meat, not a lot of hot air. The web site looks like a CV for a job. Using all Buzz Words to get your attention, as i'm sure it does