Take back the schools-Take back our nation.

Lets be honest, our schools are a failure at best, and taxpayer funded indoctrination centers at worst, What kids learn in schools shape them, and for too long they have been filled with moronic feel good ideals, and not values and knowledge..

If we could take back our schools, by kicking out the teachers unions, the failing teachers, and bring in school vouchers, chatter schools, we can end the cycle of low information, apathy, the ignorance of our founding culture and values.with a better education we can end the cycle of poverty with created generation after generation of Democrats.

So what is your take on this?

How can this be done? How do we get School vouchers throughout a state?

You have a couple of things standing in the way.

1. Parents - alot of parents do not give their children priority, after all they are paying the government to raise their children through the school system and the government knows best
2. Teachers Union - incredibly powerful, maybe the most powerful union in the country
3. Sloth of the parents - do not underestimate the laziness of parents, it is easier for them to be the child's friend instead of doing the difficult job of parenting
4. Irresponsibility - parents exhibit this trait by their willingness to use the government to force others to pay for the education of their children.

Currently the only solution is home schooling, but it takes a ton of work and the family won't be able to buy a new Yukon every other year with only 1 paycheck.

People do not understand that raising children is a tremendous blessing and an enormous sacrifice, people have to sacrifice their own aspirations (that Yukon I was talking about) for the good of the children and the family. Many people today don't appreciate the blessing nor do they set aside their own materialistic goals to benefit the family.

If any of the items I mentioned piss you off it is probably because you fit the description. Look in the mirror, look in your driveway, re-evaluate your involvement in your child's education.

I would personally go for the online schooling. At least a parent could basically sit in on the class and see what is being taught to their children. At least for the early grades where children seem to start forming opinions based on what they are told. Or find a district that teaches they way you want and move into that district.

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Originally Posted by roberth

You have a couple of things standing in the way.

1. Parents - alot of parents do not give their children priority, after all they are paying the government to raise their children through the school system and the government knows best
2. Teachers Union - incredibly powerful, maybe the most powerful union in the country
3. Sloth of the parents - do not underestimate the laziness of parents, it is easier for them to be the child's friend instead of doing the difficult job of parenting
4. Irresponsibility - parents exhibit this trait by their willingness to use the government to force others to pay for the education of their children.

Currently the only solution is home schooling, but it takes a ton of work and the family won't be able to buy a new Yukon every other year with only 1 paycheck.

People do not understand that raising children is a tremendous blessing and an enormous sacrifice, people have to sacrifice their own aspirations (that Yukon I was talking about) for the good of the children and the family. Many people today don't appreciate the blessing nor do they set aside their own materialistic goals to benefit the family.

If any of the items I mentioned piss you off it is probably because you fit the description. Look in the mirror, look in your driveway, re-evaluate your involvement in your child's education.

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I dont have kids(yet but will when I am in a career and have the means to do so..and a wife) I just see it as the mean to take but this nation if we take away the next crop of kids to be brain washed the left will be doomed.....

So we all need to suffer for their stupidity and apathy?

I'll wait a while until more responses are involved... but in the meantime: Get rid of the standardized tests, all the extraneous paperwork, the "goals" that have to be met, etc. Just let teachers TEACH. Re-instate spanking/discipline measures (ISS/alternative school is a joke, suspending a kid is a free vacation), responsibility, and free thought.

At my kids' school, they take the standardized tests but they don't teach to them or care about them. Most of the teachers, if not all, don't have teaching degrees, nor are education credentials required. They are rated, however, despite these huge handicaps, as the number 15 high school in the country. I'm very happy this year.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

I'll wait a while until more responses are involved... but in the meantime: Get rid of the standardized tests, all the extraneous paperwork, the "goals" that have to be met, etc. Just let teachers TEACH. Re-instate spanking/discipline measures (ISS/alternative school is a joke, suspending a kid is a free vacation), responsibility, and free thought.

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I don't have any problem with standardized tests... But when funding is tied to the results, then you find out what the administration really cares about!

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Originally Posted by 68Charger

I don't have any problem with standardized tests... But when funding is tied to the results, then you find out what the administration really cares about!

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Yes, I should've been clearer. The test themselves is not the issue. It is the funding in relation to the test and how teachers must teach to the test (instead of rational thinking skills and general knowledge) in order to keep their job/credentials/performance pay/all the other crap.

I'm going with the not having any kids route. (Insert your comment about how I'll change my mind in 5 years)

Whatever happened to sending your kids to Catholic (or whatever) school? I don't have kids, I probably can't have kids, but it is what I would do.

To Roberth - I vote for #2 and #4 being the overwhelming problem.

@ Mr. Lebowski,

Church or other private schools are an option, but the frustrating part is paying for the public schools via property taxes AND THEN paying private school tuition on top of that. I have a feeling we're headed in the same direction with regard to health care... Pay for the public system and then pay again if you want truly QUALITY care.

I went to Catholic school through 6th grade--because that's all that was offered in Loveland at the time. I could have slept through at least 7th and 8th grade when I transferred to the public school system.

I don't have kids of my own, but I'm very involved with my brother's children. I'm frequently disgusted by the nonsense the girls hear from their teachers. In fact the only concern I have for my brother's oldest child is that she's going to get herself in trouble for her [conservative] political viewpoint. Her IQ is in the stratosphere and she expresses her opinions in a logical fashion with clarity that most adults could only dream of. Teachers have broached the subject with my brother at parent teacher conferences and have quickly learned that the apple, in fact, doesn't fall far from the tree!

If I had children of my own, I'd do whatever it took to send my children to a private school where a more traditional (old-fashioned) course of study is emphasized.

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Originally Posted by NFATrustGuy

@ Mr. Lebowski,
Church or other private schools are an option, but the frustrating part is paying for the public schools via property taxes AND THEN paying private school tuition on top of that. I have a feeling we're headed in the same direction with regard to health care... Pay for the public system and then pay again if you want truly QUALITY care.

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Yeah, I can't disagree. It is (personally) frustrating that I have NO kids and pay for the public schools anyway, and occasionally have teachers come door to door (election / referendum time) asking if I support the next tax hike to pay for their retirement. No, not only do I not support that, I think you teachers aren't doing a good job. Like yourself, I went to parochial (Lutheran, in my case) and never once had to deal with alternate meanings of the 2nd amendment or other bizarre progressive ideals. I'd still "double down" though, if I did have kids. I'd probably try to get involved even if it were a Catholic school I trusted. My parents being invested made me invested.


I also agree there are plenty of examples where you pay double - and we are already there with Health Care.
We're there with food (stamps). We're there with books (library vs amazon). You could argue many are there with public parks vs. HOA common areas.
Society has too much dead weight, gimmedats, and hangers-on, sadly. The school thing bothers me less than [some of] the others, though.

The first thing is to stop electing union endorsed school board candidates. Go the direction of Douglas County. There is no reason for taxpayers to pay for union representatives or to collect dues on their behalf.

Schools are failing abysmally at their primary role, which is to impart the basic skills (i.e. literacy) and knowledge needed for kids to go out and function as productive members of society. Instead, the "everyone's a winner" philosophy and mindless conformity to even the most idiotic policies, as well as slavish adherence to political correctness and suppression of any original or independent thought, is facilitating our national descent into IDIOCRACY.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Yes, I should've been clearer. The test themselves is not the issue. It is the funding in relation to the test and how teachers must teach to the test (instead of rational thinking skills and general knowledge) in order to keep their job/credentials/performance pay/all the other crap.

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The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Amen I dont care about heather having two moms(unless they are bi and looking for a young stud)

How do we get out of this mess? short of the a economical collapse

I have a daughter in middle school right now and she at least is learning the basics. The problem is with the parents, not many actually look or care about what is going on. School is looked upon as a daycare so both parents can work. If the economy was such that one parent could make a living while the other stayed home and took care of the kids things would be different. I have been lucky in that a medical condition has kept me home so I have spend more time with my child this year then ever before. She has changed a considerable amount with me being home.

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents. Schools shouldn't have to result to spanking a child or smacking them with a ruler they should have to simple call the parents.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents.

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I don't have kids, but the thought of this scares me into some mild anxiety!
Just observe how kids act in public IN FRONT OF their parents and I cannot imagine how it is when it is one adult and a classroom of peers. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Cujo0920

Schools are failing abysmally at their primary role, which is to impart the basic skills (i.e. literacy) and knowledge needed for kids to go out and function as productive members of society. Instead, the "everyone's a winner" philosophy and mindless conformity to even the most idiotic policies, as well as slavish adherence to political correctness and suppression of any original or independent thought, is facilitating our national descent into IDIOCRACY.

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I agree mostly, but don't forget that it "takes two to tango". A lot of the behavior from the kids themselves and resistance to learning when taught is not helping the situation either.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Luckily the two moms and EPA issues are not part of the ciriculum (to my knowledge). If that BS is going on, then parents need to get involved in their school and change some things. A few irate parents showing up to the admins office DOES accomplish A LOT.

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Originally Posted by SG1

How do we get out of this mess?

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Start demanding resignations and make sure replacements are qualified, both papered and morally/etc.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents.

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YES!!! I BEG parents to come to my class and sit it, help out, be a silent observer, whatever. I just want them to see what is being taught. Teachers are not the only ones to blame.

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski

Just observe how kids act in public IN FRONT OF their parents and I cannot imagine how it is when it is one adult and a classroom of peers. Yikes.

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Yup, spare the rod, spoil the child.

The Problems:

1) Lack of Motivation - Students have little motivated to excel. To them, school is a chore and a "time occupier" during the day. The have no desire to reach, achieve, and set higher goals for themselves....it's too much work. It is easier to "just do the minimum" to achieve a tolerable level of pain.

2) Lack of Accountability - this applies to the school administration, teachers, students, and parents . No one wants to be accountable for the poor performance of students. We live in a politically correct world where we "everyone gets a trophy"...win or lose. No one wants to admit that there are "winners" and "losers" . They just promote the kids along. Of course there are always exceptions ( some of the admin, teachers, students and parents DO care and try), but these exceptions don't last long and are soon taught to play by the "rules" , if they want to keep their jobs.

3) Lack of Consequences - So what, if the kids graduate and can't read, write, and suck at math? What are the consequences ? How many times has a teacher gotten fired because they were sub-standard teachers? (I can't think of any. In fact I spoke to an attorney that represented several school districts. He told me in all his 30+ years, he has yet to see a teacher be fired due to incompentency) When do admins get fired for poor policy? (My memory fails me again). Do the parents have any issues ? (I 'm sure it has happened, but I have not seen too many parents complain that their kids graduated high school and can't read/write/cipher). The kids? They got through it and now don't have to deal with school any more. (Ever hear of a story of a kid complaining that "the school system let me down...I'm not educated enough.

When in college, I thought that all the foreign kids were really smart.
Then I finally realized that only the very brightest are privileged to come to the US to study (wealthy foreigners excepted).

I spoke to a Chinese friend of mine and asked how it came to be that he got to come to the US to study.
He replied that it was kind of like a contest. During each "grade", the "winners" (aka highest achievers) were allowed to participate in the next "grade" (level) of learning/school.
The "losers" were "out"...done with school for good. They were not then and never would be allowed to advance to the next level. They became the field hands and laborers for many of the manual/non-educated jobs around the country.

He expanded on this as being a HUGE motivator for him to go to great lengths to achieve success....even greater than any dishonor his failure might bring his family.

I have not seen this level of motivation very often in US students.

I think I can summarize your 4 points with this phrase: abdication of responsibility. It's not just schools, but everywhere in our society today! Add to that Agenda 21 (which drives Core Curriculum) and a host of other implications (many have been mentioned already), and you have what we now know as the 'status quo'.

As for me and my house, we use alternative forms of education for a variety of reasons, and I'm glad we do. It's MY JOB to educate my children. Not the gooberment's job.

Want an interesting study? Enumerate all the 'services' of our current society and see how many equate to the gubment... Is "taking the schools" back enough? I think it'd be a good start...

Some issues I've thought of, not already mentioned, that have contributed to the decline of education in the US

REASONS:

1) Availability of New Careers for Women - Until the 60's, most (certainly not all) women had a limited choice of career: nursing and teaching. And the very bright women excelled at these careers. Yes, there were some women that had other careers, but until the end of the "Ward and June Cleaver age" , there was not a strong concept of a "male-nurse". And yes, during the war, there were women welders, and everything else (most lkely the start of the decline of the traditional family) but after the war, things returned closer to status quo. During the 60's, women decided to put off having children, and become Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc. So the really "bright" women were no longer going into teaching, but on to bigger and better careers. Thus, the quality of teachers began to become diluted.

2) Decline of the Traditional Family - Education started to dwindle around the 60's. This is the same time that women started to move out of the house and into the workforce. In my opinion, the concept of a stay-at-home mom (SaHM) has contributed significantly to the decline of a child's education. SaHM used to be much more involved in what their kids were doing (or not doing, as is the case of homework), with whom they were doing it, and provided and enforced consequences for lack of stellar academic performance. The neighborhood moms banded together, in the "battles against their kids".

So you can call me a "sexist pig" or whatever, but growing up, every mother in my neighborhood was a SaHM except three: the teacher, the nurse, and the cafeteria lady (a former SaHM). What MY mom didn't catch me doing, my neighbors did...and I got in JUST as much, if not more, trouble. I was held accountable for my actions and suffered the consequences. In some cases today, people don't eve KNOW who their neighbors are...

The two-income family has created the "latch-key" kids, who come home to an empty house and are on their own for several hours. Again, there are always exceptions, but I believe the "norm" has switched from "SaHM to Working Moms". I am not putting down families that have working moms (ya DO what cha gotta DO), nor saying that ALL working mom families have problems. But I DO believe it is a contributing factor to the decline in education.

Aside from the educational benefits of one-on-one tutoring style, I believe Home Schooling also provides a stronger a parent/child (mom or dad) experience, similar to the traditional family, since the kids and parents are "together" more. I have a hard time understanding the term spending "quality time" compared to just plain old spending " MORE time" with someone.

Again, I'm not putting down 2-income families or women going into careers. Nor am I indicating that fathers should not "step up" their responsibilities in raising kids. I'm just making a point that there seems to be a correlation with the above events and the decline of education in the US.

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Originally Posted by james_bond_007

Some issues I've thought of, not already mentioned, that have contributed to the decline of education in the US

REASONS:

1) Availability of New Careers for Women - Until the 60's, most (certainly not all) women had a limited choice of career: nursing and teaching. And the very bright women excelled at these careers. Yes, there were some women that had other careers, but until the end of the "Ward and June Cleaver age" , there was not a strong concept of a "male-nurse". And yes, during the war, there were women welders, and everything else (most lkely the start of the decline of the traditional family) but after the war, things returned closer to status quo. During the 60's, women decided to put off having children, and become Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc. So the really "bright" women were no longer going into teaching, but on to bigger and better careers. Thus, the quality of teachers began to become diluted.

2) Decline of the Traditional Family - Education started to dwindle around the 60's. This is the same time that women started to move out of the house and into the workforce. In my opinion, the concept of a stay-at-home mom (SaHM) has contributed significantly to the decline of a child's education. SaHM used to be much more involved in what their kids were doing (or not doing, as is the case of homework), with whom they were doing it, and provided and enforced consequences for lack of stellar academic performance. The neighborhood moms banded together, in the "battles against their kids".

So you can call me a "sexist pig" or whatever, but growing up, every mother in my neighborhood was a SaHM except three: the teacher, the nurse, and the cafeteria lady (a former SaHM). What MY mom didn't catch me doing, my neighbors did...and I got in JUST as much, if not more, trouble. I was held accountable for my actions and suffered the consequences. In some cases today, people don't eve KNOW who their neighbors are...

The two-income family has created the "latch-key" kids, who come home to an empty house and are on their own for several hours. Again, there are always exceptions, but I believe the "norm" has switched from "SaHM to Working Moms". I am not putting down families that have working moms (ya DO what cha gotta DO), nor saying that ALL working mom families have problems. But I DO believe it is a contributing factor to the decline in education.

Aside from the educational benefits of one-on-one tutoring style, I believe Home Schooling also provides a stronger a parent/child (mom or dad) experience, similar to the traditional family, since the kids and parents are "together" more. I have a hard time understanding the term spending "quality time" compared to just plain old spending " MORE time" with someone.

Again, I'm not putting down 2-income families or women going into careers. Nor am I indicating that fathers should not "step up" their responsibilities in raising kids. I'm just making a point that there seems to be a correlation with the above events and the decline of education in the US.

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How do we fix this?

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Originally Posted by SG1

How do we fix this?

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Well for the women that are working in the work force, they ain't gonna go back doing chores, nursing, or teaching again.
And for the lazyparents who let government do t he job of teaching their kids, they aint gonna start doing their parenting jobs.

Once things go south, it's hard to fix.

When i was in High School(3 years ago), my school had some of the most liberal or straight up socialistteachers, one even talked about 60% income tax so school can be imporved, more wellfare can be given, higher-eds can be free, and Obama Care can fully kick in. And the worst part is, kids LOVE these teachers with new "ideals" and are embracing them. What one generation embraces, the next demands. This nation can get a lot messier in the next 50 years.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

You had kids for a reason and thats probably because you wanted to love them and spend time with them. DO it.

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This is wisdom.

IMO, If you want to see the difference between "good" kids and "bad" kids, look at the parents who actually have a "good" reason to have kids versus the parents (sperm and egg providers) who had kids just for 15 minutes of pleasure or a need to be needed or just about any reason other than wanting to love, educate and spend time with our future.

I do not believe that We fix this problem. I fix my problem. You fix your problem. They fix their problem. When enough people take responsibility for their actions, magically problems resolve themselves. Today I am afraid we are more interested in our personal comfort than our children, our nation, our future. I am as guilty of slacking on this issue as anyone out there. The work starts with me.

I will not write off our future generations because so many progressive educators are programming the children for dependence and obedience. Historically, young people have been known to reject the values of the preceding generation. I maintain my hope that either this generation or the next will see the progressive clap trap for what it is, reject it and shoulder the responsibility for their future. Call me naive but if I didn't have hope, I wouldn't have anything.

Be safe.

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Originally Posted by SG1

Lets be honest, our schools are a failure at best, and taxpayer funded indoctrination centers at worst, What kids learn in schools shape them, and for too long they have been filled with moronic feel good ideals, and not values and knowledge..

If we could take back our schools, by kicking out the teachers unions, the failing teachers, and bring in school vouchers, chatter schools, we can end the cycle of low information, apathy, the ignorance of our founding culture and values.with a better education we can end the cycle of poverty with created generation after generation of Democrats.

So what is your take on this?

How can this be done? How do we get School vouchers throughout a state?

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Any one find any flaws with this logic/idea?