YAHOO! Better maintain that 2.0 GPA.
http://kdvr.com/2015/01/08/obama-pro...unity-college/
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YAHOO! Better maintain that 2.0 GPA.
http://kdvr.com/2015/01/08/obama-pro...unity-college/
Oh man because a 2.0 is so hard
Obamaclaus!!
FREE! To a bunch of people whose only aspiration is "Do you want fries with that?"
The best part: No real answer how its going to be paid for!
Some snippets from a discussion I had on Facebook about this:
What good is a nation full of people with meaningless or wasted college degrees? We will fall apart at the seams without the important and necessary jobs that don't require a college education. K-12 is designed to prepare everyone with a similar set of rudimentary skills that prepare them for their future path, whether it takes them to vocational school or med school.
Furthermore, publicly funded school performance is quite dismal across the board when compared to privately funded education venues. I went to one of the most prestigious and expensive publicly-funded colleges in the country and I didn't receive half the education that my brother, who went to a small privately-funded college, did. Look at the top 100 colleges rated every year in every category. How many of them are publicly funded? The reason I brought up the public vs private performance is because it really is the essence of our discussion. The private sector always has, and always will do it more efficiently and more effectively than a bureaucracy - which is exactly why higher education should never be publicly funded. (An argument can certainly be made that no education should be publicly funded, but I won't get into that here).
But its FREE!! FREE!! /sarcQuote:
Originally Posted by speedysst
Yah, who gets to pay? Anyone with a job gets to pay, just like those moron Harvard educrats found out.
Skilled labor will soon be higher paid than almost all "degree required" professions except attorneys. Attorneys make the rules, so that will always be a golden occupation.
2 years in the .mil or peace corps, or...nah, that would just ruin what is left of those. There are no solutions left to the problems that are tasteful to the populace, so there will never be improvement as long as the sheep and liberals outnumber those who actually produce a portion of the GDP.
As MarkCO pointed out, many skilled trades already pay better than most degree fields. Add to this, most college graduates are carrying tens of thousands in debt into their first job. Contrast that with people who are paid a good wage to complete an apprenticeship in most skilled trades which leads to a good paying job.
Teenager as an age group is an invention of early 20th century America. I am dismayed by the prolonged childhood so many potentially productive human beings are being subjected to in our nation. While there is no need to put a child to work in a factory at the age of 12, the concept that we are seriously talking about adding grades 13 and 14 to the public school system is just ludicrous IMO.
My hope is that this is a ploy by the President to develop another issue to use against Republicans to show how heartless and uncaring they are by not taking care of the children...yes, the 18, 19, and 20 year old children.
I apologize to the many responsible and mature 16+ year olds who are working for what they want their future to be. They are obviously not the children the President is appealing to with this proposition.
That should be grades E1 E2 E3 E4 for those two years after High School.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
As long as it's only for STEM degrees, I think this is great.
Can this be a way to ease the looming student loan debt bomb that's primed to go off? Just tax productive citizens EVEN MORE and give it away and loan debt doesn't balloon as fast.
The student loan debt bomb is a firecracker. The vast majority of student loans are already guaranteed by the government.
IMO, student loans should be provided based on the graduates ability to repay the loan. You want a degree in Italian Romantic Literature of the 16th Century? Not much chance you are getting a loan for that.
College loans are another way of subsidizing the Academic/Progressive Industry. Maybe some of the adjunct faculty at the local community college could actually teach high school subjects. They seem to be doing that now, since most high school graduates don't graduate with competency to learn at the college level. Here is a link to a NY Times article relating the "Myth of a Four Year College Education."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/ed...inds.html?_r=0
I agree about the loans. Loaning $100,000 for a career that tops out at $15-$20/hr in wages is like me buying a $500,000 home with what I make now.
And that sort of loan can only happen when it is guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the US Treasury (see Freddie and Fannie)Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
That only ensures the rich go to college. The poor can't, keeping them poor. Student loans should be provided based in how useful the degree will be for society.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
For students who are prepared and motivated, we have scholarships and grants. Rich kids will alway have their parents to pay for school. I don't believe the taxpayers should be paying for educations for poor kids who have little ability to succeed based on their mediocre performance in the first twelve years of their mediocre, tax payer funded, public school education.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
You want a free or low cost education, enlist in the military, or get a job and pay for it.
Education is just one more area where I believe we have proven that pumping more money into the system does not lead to better results.
As already mentioned and demonstrated by many on this board: A college education does not guarantee wages. There are many jobs that do not require a college degree which make substantially more than the mean income of a college graduate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Get rid of your liberal talking point drivel and bring something of value to this discussion.
Again and again, privately-funded colleges and universities are head and shoulders above even the best publicly-funded schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Please do not make this into a personal argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
Apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Ridge, please substantiate your claims in writing.
You won't get a high level job in a corporation from being an apprentice. Not everybody wants to work in the service sector or a limited trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
If it were to pass the price of going to CCs would double at the least. 60B turns into 120B, the presses run on weekends to churn out the money. And everyone will still bemoan the cost of calling the plumber.
Which college did Bill Gates graduate from?
I'm not including honorary degrees.
Google this: billionaires without a college degree
He went to Harvard.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
I can't agree with this because we are talking about loans. If only the rich are going to college, loans shouldn't be a discussion. With that said it's the same as a business loan. You can't walk into a bank and expect to get a loan based on the "goodness" of your planned business. A loan is specifically about borrowing money and paying it back, therefor the ability to repay the money is really the only consideration. If the lender is interested in doing good for society, then they can donate money directly to that cause, and likely already do. It is certainly admirable that someone wishes to improve themselves and/or the world by going to college, but it is unrealistic to hope for that affecting the approval of borrowing money.
Those are good points about private institutions, but I don't think the goal here is to advance anyone, just keeping pace with the decline.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
High School is nothing more than young adult child care at this point. So there has to be something to fill the gap and make future taxpayers seem employable.
Between this and min wage, they are creating some interesting new morality... My wife worked her tail off with an associates in a demanding field. Her starting pay was somewhere around $14/hour--this was not long ago. Of course with her hard work she made a lot more and landed a better job (less hours/stress).
Where is the incentive to work your way up (like many of us have/do) when everything is handed to you?
This logic always makes me LMFAO, it's simply FALSE. I grew up dirt poor, 99% of my clothes came from garage sales, My mother put herself through accounting school by trapping (yes my MOTHER).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
I currently have 2 associate degrees, and am just short of a BA in management (cut short due to promotion at work and my job not allowing for me to finish it). I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of but guess what, I still went to school and mom and dad didn't pay a penny of it and forbade me from applying for the .gov grant programs. Here's how.
I worked a full time job plus 2 different part time jobs in the summers, then during school I worked the 2 part time jobs. I graduated with my first associate degree with a grand total of $7K in student loans because I worked, got a couple small scholarships, and went to a trade school. I have zero problems with what C-stone posted, I could have still gotten the loans I did when I went to school with that provision because the program I went to had a proven track record for 100% placement for their graduates for a LONG time (like 15 years running). Then I worked in that field for 3 years for my first employer, then took a job with the company I work for now. My company offers a tuition reimbursement program for employees, so I took full advantage of that. Worked full time, went to school at night, they paid for tuition and 1/2 of my books in exchange for C or better grades and a 3 year contract commitment. Got my AA and almost done with my BA (from a private Catholic school no less) when I was promoted to a series of 3 positions now that have too much travel to attend classes after work.
The stance that if the govt didn't fund higher education only the rich could go is simply a complete falsehood. If you want to go, and aren't expecting to just go to school, you can. It's just that everyone seems to think that going to college is an occupation that precludes working while doing so. It's not.
Then there's all of my buddies that went to the military first, and earned their education through the GI bill, I have no problem with tax $$ going to pay for college for them, they've earned it. There's options, but they take work, and people seem to have forgotten that.
He dropped out. He never graduated. He never went back. He didn't need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
School is good for some things. Education can take place where ever there is a willing student who works hard and people who can provide knowledge.
Not everyone wants or needs to be high in a corporation. Did you even read what I posted above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
I think the trick that people fall for is that going to college teaches you something that makes you wealthy. That's probably the only thing you DON'T learn in college. I think people need to decide why they want to go to college. I went because that's what people do and you need a degree to get a job. I coasted through and got average grades. Well, I got a job and it is low-average paying. Uncle Kazoo has got me on a habit of never saying never, but I have ZERO desire to go back to school for more education. A Masters wouldn't get me any more money in my career. I want to make more money, and more traditional schooling will teach me what I need to know.
Honestly, most colleges are nothing more than an expensive adult day care. Very few colleges actually teach their students anything they need to be successful.
Anyone with focus, drive, tenacity, and ambition is going to make more than your average college grad who studied "business" or similar. And in all seriousness, most college students aren't there to learn anyway.
EDUCATION ≠ INTELLIGENCE
Another one, Obviously you're not going to get one right off the bat, and guess what, you probably shouldn't. But guess what, there's still companies out there that only promote from within (like the one I work for). Over 90% of our management team in a company of over 50K employees hired in at the ground level. Oh and we happen to be one of the most successful and largest companies in Birkshire Hathaway's portfolio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Granted my company isn't the norm, but simply put, a high level job doesn't necessarily require a 4 year degree either.
My dad owns an 8 million dollar/yr service-industry business. Never went to college because he couldn't afford it. Instead, he worked his tail off until he could buy a tiny little office next to the city dump. That was 41 years ago. Now he employs 36 others in a 16,000 sqft building and is getting ready to retire. College didn't get him there. Other people's tax dollars and subsidies certainly did not get him there.
http://youtu.be/YKjPI6no5ngQuote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
Sorry. I couldn't help myself. [LOL]
Never gets old... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Service industry is going to do nothing but increase as we become more valuable. Just turned 28 will surpass the 6 figure mark this year and have a measly associates of science degree. (Not an oilfield job either) Most of the people that I graduted with are going no where with a pile of debt. The ones that are are engineers, in business or law. The standard 4 year degree no longer applies
The private student loan industry can't survive without indentured servitude so they'll loan anyone money that can fog a mirror. Most don't even understand the promissory note they and/or their parents sign.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
I agree. A lot of my friends my age make close to what you make. I'm still making what I started at nearly 10 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by DFBrews